What do you folks think regarding action in Black Panther?

[BobC]

Is there some frikkin' rule at Marvel to NEVER EVER SHOW THE BLACK PANTHER ACTUALLY FIGHTING?!! I just bought the latest actionless issue, and was once again bored out of my mind. Every Spiderman issue, Spiderman fights. Every Iron Man issue, he fights. Every X-Men issue, they fight.

But ONLY the Black Panther goes issue after issue after issue after issue with NO ACTION. You know this book will fail just like all the others because people at Marvel seem completely unable to fathom the concept that the Black Panther is a superhero who never does anything--just stands around--so NOBODY IS INTERESTED. Issue after issue goes by, and we see covers making it seem like the Panther is gonna fight the Rhino or Sabretooth and it NEVER EVER HAPPENS.

I am FURIOUS. The Black Panther is my favorite character and to see him once again fading into C character status, on the verge of cancellation, is just infuriating. I buy comics to see the characters face off against each other--and I swear to GOD there is some kind of conspiracy to keep the Black Panther from ever mixing it up with ANYBODY. The only time in the past 20 years that the Panther actually got in there swinging was when he went up against Ultron during the Avengers "Ultron Unlimited" and it's been downhill ever since.

Panther series after Panther series FAILS because he NEVER FIGHTS AND WINS using HIS ABILITIES AND WEAPONS.

"The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over, expecting different results."

[Alan2099]

Go check out Spider-man/Human Torch #5. There's a brief fight between Black panther and the symbite cosutmed Spider-man there. It's not much, but it's more action than Panther sees in his own comic.

As for the every issues stuff... sadly for some dumb reason, marvel doesn't seem to be doing nealry as many fights as the used to. I don't understand it myself.

[BobC]

But that's just it, Alan. I shouldn't have to dig through numerous back issues to see the Black Panther in battle! If I didn't know better I'd think that the people running Marvel these days don't even know what comic readers are looking for.

Look, I read books on pop art, politics, archeology, science, Free Trade agreements, race relations, art, music ect and that's cool. But I read comics for fun, to see the characters I grew up with face off against each other, using their powers to win or lose. I do NOT read comics to see character stand around and pontificate.

The most popular Avengers and X-Men storylines have ALWAYS been about BIG battles. What the hell is going on here?

I think all the stale, phony race baiting here on this thread is all to cover up the fact that once again, the Black Panther is BORING.

[Nate Grey]

Didn't Black Panther fight a lot during Priest's run?

[Jared_Humpherys]

Didn't Black Panther fight a lot during Priest's run?

Sorta, but it was done in a "Pulp fiction" sorta style...

[BobC]

No way in hell did he "fight a lot." He did something like two pages against the Sub-Mariner and did a few pages against d-level villain Hydro Man and that was it for the entire RUN. I remember getting in a big fight with Priest on some forum over this non-action issue. Of course I was completely wrong, but I stood there and watched the series, which started in the top 20, slowly slide into oblivion.

If you have to ask "didn't the Black Panther fight...?" then you are answering your own question. You'd certainly remember it if it happened! This is a sad statement on this crucial character.

[Loren]

No way in hell did he "fight a lot." He did something like two pages against the Sub-Mariner and did a few pages against d-level villain Hydro Man and that was it for the entire RUN.

If you want to exclude fights with non-villains (like the thugs he beats up in the first arc) or fights that didn't last long (like his KO of Mephisto), I seem to also recall fights with Kraven, Malice, Killmonger (there was a whole issue devoted to that one), Man-Ape, and some kind of confrontation with the Hulk. The 'Nuff Said issue that was mostly Panther vs. Iron Fist in a drawn-out hand-to-hand battle. There was also a multi-stage fight between Panther and an evil Iron Man, and an issue where he teamed up with Luke Cage, Iron Fist and the Falcon to fight a whole bunch of blaxploitation bad guys.

And that's just what I remember off the top of my head.

Of course I was completely wrong, but I stood there and watched the series, which started in the top 20, slowly slide into oblivion.

Priest's series was never top 20. The first issue was #41, the second #40, and the sixth #41. It dropped thereafter, finally settling down around #90.

Loren

[BobC]

Most of the fights you mention occured THIRTY YEARS AGO in Jungle Action and if you go back and actually look at those issues, the Panther gets his butt kicked most of the time. Yes Priest did have the Panther fight Iron Fist--I'll give you that one--but as per usual the fight was boring as hell and resulted, as usual, with the Panther's costume shredded and in a complete boring draw. Show me ONE example of the Black Panther kicking any supervillain's butt, in the last three decades (with the exception of Hydroman). Daredevil, Spiderman, Captain America and every other superhero you can name routinely have battles, every issue, and they almost always win.

I find it incredibly dishonest to point to thirty year old Jungle Action stories as proof that the Panther is an action hero. He has been de-powered, dumbed down and crapped on practically from his inception. I also don't really care what the exact chart position of the Priest book was--the point here is that the Panther started out with lots of readers and due to the dullness of the series, PEOPLE STOPPED BUYING.

Wake up time, guys. Five new issues have whizzed by and the BLACK PANTHER HASN"T DONE A DAMN THING. This is going to make him a fan favorite? Draw younger readers? Come on. When was the last time you saw the Panther use his enhanced senses, like seeing in the dark, to help beat a foe? Or the last time he used his speed and agility to any great extent? Waaaay back in the sixties, the Panther beat the crap out of the Man-Ape in Avengers 60 something, and he used all his abilities to great effect.That was nearly forty years ago! And even then, the Man Ape beat him through treachery--and the Panther had to be rescued.

I am disgusted. This is how we treat this great character? The same character who nearly beat the whole fantastic Four using his enhanced senses, enhanced speed and strength, and weapondry waaaay back in 1964?

[Loren]

Most of the fights you mention occured THIRTY YEARS AGO in Jungle Action

That's odd, considering I've never read Jungle Action and I was citing examples from Priest's series. Heck, I'll give issue numbers:

#4 - Hatut Zeraze
#6 - Kraven
#14 - Hydro-Man
#15 - Hulk
#17 - Morgan, Cottonmouth, Stiletto, Cockroach, Nightshade
#20 - Killmonger
#22 - Nightmare
#24 - Malice
#29 - Klaw
#33 - Malice again
#35 - Man-Ape
#37 - Future BP vs. future son T'Charra
#39 - Iron Fist
#40 - Black Dragon
#45 - evil Iron Man

Now not all of these were drawn-out, issue-long fights, but there was physical action nonetheless. And if I flipped through the issues themselves, I'm sure there were more.

Loren

[BobC]

"Not all of these" or "none of them?"

[Tobias March]

Wake up time, guys. Five new issues have whizzed by and the BLACK PANTHER HASN"T DONE A DAMN THING. This is going to make him a fan favorite? Draw younger readers? Come on. When was the last time you saw the Panther use his enhanced senses, like seeing in the dark, to help beat a foe? Or the last time he used his speed and agility to any great extent? Waaaay back in the sixties, the Panther beat the crap out of the Man-Ape in Avengers 60 something, and he used all his abilities to great effect.That was nearly forty years ago! And even then, the Man Ape beat him through treachery--and the Panther had to be rescued.

I am disgusted. This is how we treat this great character? The same character who nearly beat the whole fantastic Four using his enhanced senses, enhanced speed and strength, and weapondry waaaay back in 1964?

I think the coolest thing I ever saw Panther do was take out Dr. Strange in one leap, rebounding off a corn silo to propel himself after stalking the mage through a corn field. Sadly this was in the Defenders/Avengers War back in the 70's, so I take your point :(

[Loren]

"Not all of these" or "none of them?"

"Not all." At the very least, the fights with Killmonger, Klaw, Iron Fist, Iron Man, and the blaxploitation villains all took prominence in their respective issues, occupying a good deal of the page count. Some of them, like the fights with Man-Ape or the Hulk, were much more brief.

Loren

[BobC]

Right Tobias. That's EXACTLY what needs to happen with this character--he needs to be EXCITING. For five issues now T'Challa has stood around barking orders and now the book will get cancelled because nobody's interested.

T'Challa's senses should be sharper than anyones, with the exception of Dardevil. He should be the second fastest Avenger after Quicksilver as far as reflexes are concerned, and he should also be right up there with the Beast as far as agility is concerned.

[BobC]

Thank you, Brian. I am 40 years old and I have watched Black Panther series after Black Panther series fail and vanish over the years with one common theme throughout: NO ACTION. I want to see the Black Panther become a dynamic, successful character. In virtually every Captain America comic he fights and beats a villain. Same with every Marvel character except the Black Panther. My friend Mike and I used to actually go through old issues of BP and Avengers and count how many times the Panther's costume was shown as shredded--it was astounding how many times his was, while no one elses' in the issue was.

Now 5 issues have flown by. I bought the new one, looked at the cover with the illustration of the Panther on some goofy sky sled, and I immediately thought, with a sick feeling in my stomach, that once again there would be no action. I was RIGHT. The Rhino, Klaw and the Black Knight have been standing around for five issues now--half a YEAR, and no clashes between the Panther and them. I am absolutely disgusted.

[The Shadow]

Now 5 issues have flown by. I bought the new one, looked at the cover with the illustration of the Panther on some goofy sky sled, and I immediately thought, with a sick feeling in my stomach, that once again there would be no action. I was RIGHT. The Rhino, Klaw and the Black Knight have been standing around for five issues now--half a YEAR, and no clashes between the Panther and them. I am absolutely disgusted.
Do what I did... drop the book. Either they will cancel it or drop Reggie like the bad writer he is. Hopefully they will drop Reggie and give the character a chance... but sadly they never seem to do this instead they just can the book. I would rather have NO BP than this crap.

[BobC]

Shadow--you know I would but I am already down to maybe five comics I can even stand reading, so I'm desperate. I've seen Marvel during a lot of highs and lows, but this is really, really bad. I remember just three years ago thinking Marvel was in a complete renaissance--what the hell happened?

[Jared_Humpherys]

Shadow--you know I would but I am already down to maybe five comics I can even stand reading, so I'm desperate. I've seen Marvel during a lot of highs and lows, but this is really, really bad. I remember just three years ago thinking Marvel was in a complete renaissance--what the hell happened?

Sounds to me like you're being a bit too brand loyal, BobC. If Panther is dissapointing you, why not drop it and get a book from a less popular publisher? Check out Invincible, for example. A great book with a somewhat old-school feel.

[BobC]

Naw--I buy lotsa stuff or at least I used to. I used to buy Top Ten (It ended), Sleeper (it ended), Wanted (ended), and several others--but most of them are long gone. Another problem is here in the Dallas area, there are very few comic shops anymore, and the handful of them still around seem to cater more to Action Figure customers and D&D types-- and stock very few comics. I mean it is such a chore finding comics these days. Now a lot of them want you to give them "pull lists" and don't really show racks of new releases where you might , say, buy a comic you don't ordinarilly buy because a villain you like is in it. Austin has a great old-school comic shop, Austin Books, where you can go and browse but here in Dallas, times is hard!

Now even the New Avengers don't seem like Marvel anymore. It's kinda sad. Maybe it's time to give up comics.

[Sharcque]

Hey Bob --- there some place on the net that give like 35% (or more depending on the book) off subscription prices. Someone posted a link to it on here a few weeks back. You might wanna try there. Unfortunately, I don't have the link....

[The Shadow]

Shadow--you know I would but I am already down to maybe five comics I can even stand reading, so I'm desperate. I've seen Marvel during a lot of highs and lows, but this is really, really bad. I remember just three years ago thinking Marvel was in a complete renaissance--what the hell happened?
Grab New Avengers
Young Avengers
Captain America
Fantastic Four
Runaways
Daredevil
Amazing Spider-Man
Astonishing X-Men
Uncanny X-Men
New X-Men Academy

... all are fun and great reads. You may have some already but give a try to those you don't.

There are better ways to spend your money than on a title you already hate. Try some new stuff, see what sticks.

[We R. Venom]

quit complaining. he'll be fighting soon

[BobC]

Will that be this year, or next? Those of us in our Twilight Years may not have much time left. I wonder if the Panther will throw a punch, then stand around for a few dozen more issues.

PS Thanks for the tips, Sharq and Shadow.

[Crimson]

While I'm not enjoying the book...

Didn't #1 have Black Panther use his tech to beat an entire army
It was either #1 or #2 that had the fight to become Black Panther

#5 (Haven't read it yet) and/or #6 looks to have some action which has been building too.

Too be honest I don't care about Black Panther anymore, when #9 hits (End of the X-Men crossover) I'm out.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

What exactly are Black Panther's powers?

And another question: What is the matter with Marvel's handling of BP?
He seems to be one of the company's best-loved characters, and yet it seems to me that all attempts at solo books fail/hit walls
(Now, remember I am not familiar with what exactly happened with the various BP books, so bear with me...)

Is Reginald Hudlin a good comic writer, in your opinion?(isn't he a film writer or something?)
I have heard nothing but terrible things about his run...



http://www.tomburgos.com/SWbann.jpg

[BobC]

The Black Panther is the first black super hero ever. He started off World Class--fighting the Fantastic Four, single-handedly, to a standstill, in FF issue #52, where he originated. He as also fought Captain America to a standstill shortly thereafter, and Captain America was so impressed he hand-picked T'Challa to replace him in the Avengers waaaay back in I'd guess 1965--and the Panther remained a key Avenger for a decade. It's been all downhill ever since with the Panther either being nowhere to be seen for years, or he'd pop up in his own unsuccessful book for a year or two, which would quickly be cancelled.

The idea of what his powers were/are is another sore subject. When he was first presented, he talked about taking the Heart-shaped herb which gave him the "powers of a great cat" which included enhanced strength, speed, flexibility, senses and tracking ability. T'Challa could see in the dark. He also had the ability to always land on his "subtle limbs" like a cat, and was strong enough to break metal shackles. He was considered, by far, the fastest Avenger in terms of reflexes, next to Quicksilver, or as the Wasp once said "Nobody, but nobody has the moves of T'Challa."

His weapondry is new to the Character, but it includes energy knives/spears, a vibranium suit which repells bullets, and boots which absorb impacts of high falls.

And what's wrong with Marvel's handling of him? Check out the rest of this thread.