There Will Be NO NBA Lockout [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

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pennywisdom

06-21-2005, 10:49 AM

From Yahoo Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-nbalabor&prov=ap&type=lgns).

Good news for NBA fans. There was almost definitely going to be one this year, with much speculation as to whether or not it would interfere with the regular season schedule. We were spared the fate of the NHL.

Shellhead

06-21-2005, 11:01 AM

Steve

06-21-2005, 11:16 AM

Excellent news indeed.

Buried Alien

06-21-2005, 01:03 PM

Once in a while, people in professional sports get smart and do something right.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Punchy

06-21-2005, 01:36 PM

That is good news.

Now if they could ever get rid of Stern ...

Royal

06-21-2005, 01:48 PM

God Dammit!

*packs away "I *heart* MMA" shirts, mugs & other promotional gear.*

:p

bfrank

06-21-2005, 01:55 PM

I have a problem with the age limit...

18 year olds can fight in a legit and or bullshit war, but can not play hoop and get paid for it :rolleyes:

sixstringguild

06-21-2005, 02:09 PM

That is good news.

Now if they could ever get rid of Stern ...

This happened because Stern rules the league w/ an iron fist and he doesn't let the players union push him around. He's the best commish in sports.

As far as the age limit goes, I agree that it should be 18, but hopefully it'll weed out the high schoolers that shouldn't have gone pro right away. A year in college will show who the ballers are and who should stay a few more years to work on their game (and grades I guess... :rolleyes: ).

Tadhg Adams

06-21-2005, 03:14 PM

I have a problem with the age limit...

18 year olds can fight in a legit and or bullshit war, but can not play hoop and get paid for it :rolleyes:
18 year olds also can't run for congress, the senate, or president. Such is life.

Brian Cronin

06-21-2005, 04:16 PM

19 year old age limit rather than 18 is idiotic, but not a big deal, as it is, well, one year. :)

Really, though, the NBA better be getting some kickbacks from the NCAA, because that is who is REALLY helped by this deal - all the rookies who would become NBA players will play for an NCAA team for a year now, and that will help the NCAA immensely.

Beyond that, all the changes are basically minor ones, although almost every single one is idiotic.

I like the NBDL as actual minor league, and a 14 man active roster is interesting.

-Brian

Brian Cronin

06-21-2005, 04:18 PM

Wait a sec - reviewing the deal, it appears as though you CAN still draft 18 year olds!!!

They just can't play in the NBA - you would have to assign them to the NBDL until they are 19.

Wow...what a weird rule.

Am I reading that wrong?

It says "19 to play in the NBA" and later says "lowering age limit in NBDL to 18."

So that sounds like, to me, that you can still draft 18 year olds, you just can't play them their first season.

But if a player is really, really good - wouldn't that still make sense to make the move?

-Brian

bfrank

06-21-2005, 04:19 PM

Brian Cronin

06-21-2005, 04:49 PM

But it won't really help the NCAA...you'll get a bunch of players in for one year and out...

Right, which is one more year than the NCAA is getting now.

So how would that not help?

You don't the NCAA is savoring over the next Lebron HAVING to play in the NCAA for a season?

-Brian

Puma

06-21-2005, 04:57 PM

StoneGold

06-21-2005, 05:13 PM

Brian Cronin

06-21-2005, 05:44 PM

Doesn't sound that weird. Sounds like baseball.

But in baseball, the guaranteed contracts do not start tolling until you reach the major leagues.

In the NBA, it is as soon as you sign them - so you have to weigh your options of whether you think it is worth it to give up a year of owning the player's rights totally in exchange for having them for them period.

In baseball, you can choose to groom a player longer (although, even in baseball, you are better off getting someone who can get to the big leagues as soon as possible, for while it takes longer to toll in baseball, it DOES eventually start to toll, even in the minors!).

-Brian

dougputhoff

06-21-2005, 07:38 PM

Blast it!

I was hoping there'd be a lockout next year.

To paraphrase Jack Nicholson from "Batman," what the NBA needs is an enema.

And with a labor agreement. They're not going to get one.

pennywisdom

06-22-2005, 12:13 AM

I was hoping there'd be a lockout next year.
You're in the minority. Trust me...this is great news. Incidentally, how does a lockout equal an "enema"? Did the catastrophe of '99 offer the league an "enema"? Is the NHL currently receiving an "enema"? If anything, a lockout damages public relations.

phoenixrising

06-22-2005, 12:20 AM

What a shame. I'd love if if the NBA ceased to exist for a year. Then I wouldn't have to see the likes of Kobe, Iverson and Artest playing one-man streetball on my television for endless months.

pennywisdom

06-22-2005, 12:21 AM

phoenixrising

06-22-2005, 12:25 AM

Who's making you watch it?

TV networks that show it what feels like non-stop.

And my workplace, where every TV has it on every night possible.

And the urban area where I live, where it has permeated every facet of street culture with unnecessary court moves, big talk, floozies, Cristal and expensive shoes.

And is this a valid argument anyway? It's just an opinion. I think the NBA should be dismantled and rebuilt in the image of college basketball, where we can actually believe they're playing a real game and not just playing 'who's the biggest star'. You all like it. And I shared that.

pennywisdom

06-22-2005, 12:31 AM

I think the NBA should be dismantled and rebuilt in the image of college basketball, where we can actually believe they're playing a real game and not just playing 'who's the biggest star'.
If that's the case, then just watch NCAA and ignore NBA. If it's the culture surrounding the league that you have a problem with, just deal. There are aspects of popular culture I'm not exactly enamored with and I cope.

Valmore

06-22-2005, 12:36 AM

Wait a sec - reviewing the deal, it appears as though you CAN still draft 18 year olds!!!

No, the article states that this draft is likely the last draft any high school kids will be drafted in. Since you aren't eligible to play in the NBA, it wouldn't make sense to allow teams to draft you.

The NBDL, in so far, appears to just be a league where those that aren't in the NBA go to play, and hope to get called up for a tryout by any team that comes knocking. It appears that the NBA is now going to be more like hockey or baseball and allow teams to assign players with 2 years or less experience in the NBA to the NBDL, with the option of calling them up later.

phoenixrising

06-22-2005, 12:41 AM

If that's the case, then just watch NCAA and ignore NBA. If it's the culture surrounding the league that you have a problem with, just deal. There are aspects of popular culture I'm not exactly enamored with and I cope.

Wow, defensive. It's just a game. And I was just complaining about it. I think I'll live. Jeez.

pennywisdom

06-22-2005, 12:47 AM

Wow, defensive.
Not really. You're reading what I'm writing with some sort of tone that I never used. I'm casually wondering what your beef is and why your problem with the league is so huge that it merits a season-long lockout. Apparently, you just don't dig on it. That's fine, but by suggesting the league be dismantled, you're the one blowing things out of proportion. It's just a game, indeed. Watch it or don't. No need for excessive negativism.

:D We're all cool here.

Brian Cronin

06-22-2005, 12:59 AM

No, the article states that this draft is likely the last draft any high school kids will be drafted in. Since you aren't eligible to play in the NBA, it wouldn't make sense to allow teams to draft you.

The NBDL, in so far, appears to just be a league where those that aren't in the NBA go to play, and hope to get called up for a tryout by any team that comes knocking. It appears that the NBA is now going to be more like hockey or baseball and allow teams to assign players with 2 years or less experience in the NBA to the NBDL, with the option of calling them up later.

But how can the NBDL's age limit be 18 if you can't draft an 18 year old?

-Brian

Valmore

06-22-2005, 02:19 AM

But how can the NBDL's age limit be 18 if you can't draft an 18 year old?

My guess is this - a player could just decide not to go to college and just enter the NBDL instead, see if a team picks him up there and prove himself there for a year. If he does well, he's eligible to be picked up by a team a year later.

I don't think the NBDL teams are going to be team affiliates like baseball and hockey. NBA teams will just have the option of sending certain players there to develop.

HomerJay

06-22-2005, 07:10 AM

In some ways, the NBA created their own problem.

In the early 80's David Stern and Co. made a choice to promote individual players rather than teams. There was always some focus on individual stand-outs (Dr. J, Wilt, Kareem), but it actually became a conscious strategy with the promotion of Bird vs. Magic, and Michael Jordan's rise to superstar-status years before he ever won a championship. In the 80's and most of the 90's, this strategy reaped HUGE benefits for the NBA, but now that the generation who grew up watching this league of individuals is now playing the game, of course self-promotion and "me first" attitudes run rampant.

With college rosters changing yearly, lasting individual promotion is almost non-existant with the big programs getting the attention rather than individual players that won't be around for more than 2 years (if that long).

dougputhoff

06-22-2005, 07:20 AM

You're in the minority. Trust me...this is great news. Incidentally, how does a lockout equal an "enema"?

The League needs to be totally reformed. The playoffs are too long, too many teams are in it. The players behave like spoiled brats, and there are too many foreign players--so many, in fact, it's beginning to remind me of the North American Soccer League in the 1970s. There need to be fewer regular season games, fewers teams in the playoffs. A single-elimination postseason tournament, and fewer foreign players. Or else NASCAR will continue to kick the NBA's tail. If the league needed a strike for all that to happen, than I was for it.

Ryan K

06-22-2005, 07:40 AM

The League needs to be totally reformed. The playoffs are too long, too many teams are in it. The players behave like spoiled brats, and there are too many foreign players--so many, in fact, it's beginning to remind me of the North American Soccer League in the 1970s. There need to be fewer regular season games, fewers teams in the playoffs. A single-elimination postseason tournament, and fewer foreign players. Or else NASCAR will continue to kick the NBA's tail. If the league needed a strike for all that to happen, than I was for it.

Too many foreign players?!? WTF does that have to do with anything?!?

Good players are good for the game no matter where the fuck they're from! :mad:

Sheldon

06-22-2005, 07:43 AM

.....and there are too many foreign players--so many, in fact, it's beginning to remind me of the North American Soccer League in the 1970s. There need to be fewer regular season games, fewers teams in the playoffs. A single-elimination postseason tournament, and fewer foreign players. Or else NASCAR will continue to kick the NBA's tail. If the league needed a strike for all that to happen, than I was for it.

Why are foreign players a bad thing? Yao, Ginobili & Nowitzki et al add to the game. Even as a running joke Darko makes it more fun.

Ryan K

06-22-2005, 07:45 AM

Something I don't completely understand is the elimination of the Injured List. Teams will still be allowed to have 15 players on their roster. But from what I've read only 12 can be active.

So they just changed the name of the Injured List to the Inactive List right? Thus eliminating the need for the teams to make up bogus injuries to keep 15 players. Why not just allow 15 active player rosters. This makes an insane amount of sense to me. I can't fathom a downside.

And for the record I like the age limit.

Punchy

06-22-2005, 08:47 AM

What a shame. I'd love if if the NBA ceased to exist for a year. Then I wouldn't have to see the likes of Kobe, Iverson and Artest playing one-man streetball on my television for endless months.

You're wrong about Artest. Call him a thug if you like. Call him a trouble-maker and a brawler. But he is not a "one-man streetballer". He is very much a team player and in an era where selfish players only want to score and dunk he puts defense first at the expense of putting up a lot of points.

phoenixrising

06-22-2005, 10:03 AM

You're wrong about Artest. Call him a thug if you like. Call him a trouble-maker and a brawler. But he is not a "one-man streetballer". He is very much a team player and in an era where selfish players only want to score and dunk he puts defense first at the expense of putting up a lot of points.

The whole "I need time off during the season to promote my rap CD" thing sort of told me otherwise.

HomerJay

06-22-2005, 10:25 AM

The whole "I need time off during the season to promote my rap CD" thing sort of told me otherwise.

No kidding.
When I first heard about this, I thought it was something THE ONION wrote...

pennywisdom

06-22-2005, 10:42 AM

The League needs to be totally reformed.
You didn't really answer my question. How does a lockout contribute to that? If your problem with the NBA is that everyone needs a complete priority overhaul, you would have to examine the psychology and culture of the players, the league, and the fans. A lockout has nothing to do with that.

If the league needed a strike for all that to happen, than I was for it.
Again, I don't understand. Show me an example of how the NHL will benefit from their lockout and I might see your logic.

Too many foreign players?!? WTF does that have to do with anything?!?
Might our friend dougputhoff be a xenophobe? I don't care where anyone is from, I just want to see some basketball.

A question for those decrying the selfish attitude of NBA players: Do you have this problem with ALL professional sports? Because I don't necessarily find NBA players to be any more greedy, self-indulgent, or overpaid than professional baseball players.

When you look at the situation surrounding people like Barry Bonds, it becomes obvious that fame and glory on an individual basis is top priority, regardless of the sport. Guys don't care about winning the World Series as much as they do breaking a single season home run record. Guys have no problem violating/bending ethical rules of fairplay if it means more attention on them. I think this problem extends to nearly all levels of professional athleticism, and even beyond that. The American Dream is about making money, not achieving honor. This isn't a good thing, but it's a fact. This is true of dishonest politicians, uncrupulous businessmen, and millions of other people, the world over. I don't know why anyone would single out the NBA as the one truest testament to America's problem with greed. I see "NBA mentality" all over the damn place. In fact, in most avenues of life, it's worse than in the NBA, where they can at least reach an agreement on something.

Christ, I don't even want to know how you guys feel about the NHL situation.

Punchy

06-22-2005, 11:29 AM

The whole "I need time off during the season to promote my rap CD" thing sort of told me otherwise.

I don't see what that has to do with him being a "streetballer."

I'm not saying he's not a weirdo, but he's a great basketball player.

eJm

06-22-2005, 11:34 AM

The League needs to be totally reformed. The playoffs are too long, too many teams are in it. The players behave like spoiled brats, and there are too many foreign players.

Wait a minute....this is reminding me of something...

Thats it, The English Premiership! :D

dougputhoff

06-22-2005, 08:44 PM

You didn't really answer my question. How does a lockout contribute to that? If your problem with the NBA is that everyone needs a complete priority overhaul, you would have to examine the psychology and culture of the players, the league, and the fans. A lockout has nothing to do with that.

Again, I don't understand. Show me an example of how the NHL will benefit from their lockout and I might see your logic.

Might our friend dougputhoff be a xenophobe? I don't care where anyone is from, I just want to see some basketball.

A question for those decrying the selfish attitude of NBA players: Do you have this problem with ALL professional sports? Because I don't necessarily find NBA players to be any more greedy, self-indulgent, or overpaid than professional baseball players.

When you look at the situation surrounding people like Barry Bonds, it becomes obvious that fame and glory on an individual basis is top priority, regardless of the sport. Guys don't care about winning the World Series as much as they do breaking a single season home run record. Guys have no problem violating/bending ethical rules of fairplay if it means more attention on them. I think this problem extends to nearly all levels of professional athleticism, and even beyond that. The American Dream is about making money, not achieving honor. This isn't a good thing, but it's a fact. This is true of dishonest politicians, uncrupulous businessmen, and millions of other people, the world over. I don't know why anyone would single out the NBA as the one truest testament to America's problem with greed. I see "NBA mentality" all over the damn place. In fact, in most avenues of life, it's worse than in the NBA, where they can at least reach an agreement on something.

Christ, I don't even want to know how you guys feel about the NHL situation.

I knew somebody would call me a xenophobe. I AM NOT. But I am a realist. I believe one of the reasons fro the success of NASCAR is because it's a bunch of good ol' American white boys. Look at how well Formula One racing does here. And look how much Indy Car racing has fallen in popularity.

I believe the NHL will start to benefit because it will have to make rule changes to make the game more exciting--changes that should've taken place 40 years ago--such as getting rid of the blue lines and tie games.

The league needs to make drastic changes such as those. The two lowest-rated NBA Finals of all time are this year's and 2003's.

And after the major league strike in '94, baseball players--for the most part--started behaving like human beings again.

pennywisdom

06-24-2005, 01:34 PM

I believe one of the reasons fro the success of NASCAR is because it's a bunch of good ol' American white boys. Look at how well Formula One racing does here. And look how much Indy Car racing has fallen in popularity.
Indy, Formula One, and NASCAR are the only examples you can come up with? There's no doubt that racing attracts "good ol' American white boys" with little tolerance for anyone who isn't a "good ol' American white boy". I could have told you that, and I don't even watch racing.

I believe the NHL will start to benefit because it will have to make rule changes to make the game more exciting--changes that should've taken place 40 years ago--such as getting rid of the blue lines and tie games.
Are you certain? You could well be right, but from most NHL fans I've talked to, the season-cancelling lockout was an extraordinary waste of time and caused everyone to lose faith in the league as a whole.

And after the major league strike in '94, baseball players--for the most part--started behaving like human beings again.
Well, we all know that's not true. :)

pennywisdom

06-26-2005, 12:27 PM

In the interest of conversation, I just want to point out ONE more item, and then I'll shut up.

The two lowest-rated NBA Finals of all time are this year's and 2003's.
Stern made a great point recently when discussing this very topic. He noted that, although broadcast ratings for the NBA are down, broadcast ratings for nearly everyone are down. Network TV is simply not as popular as it used to be. TV's greatest staple, sitcoms, are a non-entity as far as ratings go, and primetime is a wasteland. Network TV is scrambling to pick up the pieces. As far as basic cable goes, there are some shows that appeal heavily to cult audiences, but it's hardly enough to bolster ratings when, year by year, TV has been losing ground to the internet and blockbuster movies as far as entertainment and information go. Another thought: the mainstream networks that DO carry NBA games do a terrible job of it. They only focus on a couple select teams and leave a lot of fans out in the cold. So, who can blame fans for not tuning in? A lot of fans are turning to expensive Pay-Per-View packages to pick up where network and basic cable have left off. (Incidentally, I prefer NBC to ABC as far as sports coverage goes).

Stern also mentioned that game attendance is up. Ticket sales are as accurate a way to gauge league popularity as anything, IMO.

PeteGunn

06-26-2005, 05:32 PM

Another thought: the mainstream networks that DO carry NBA games do a terrible job of it. They only focus on a couple select teams and leave a lot of fans out in the cold. So, who can blame fans for not tuning in?

I'll take it one step further, they don't announce a game anymore. They talk through the game, bombard us with stories and promos and have irritating sideline reporters.

Play-by-play announcers don't follow the ball, don't follow the action and just don't do a good job in describing the game.

Brian Cronin

06-26-2005, 06:08 PM

TV is less popular?!?

TV is more popular than ever!!!!

It is just that they watch more niche programs, that is all.

So since the viewing audience has become SO diversified, ad rates are actually HIGHER now than they were when MORE people were watching network television.

Why?

Because, when the market is this diverse, pockets of 8-10 million viewers become that much more valuable, because they are scarcer.

The scarcity drives the value up.

So the NBA is doing fine, TV-wise.

-Brian