After INFINITE CRISIS: Geoff Johns and Grant Morrison's new roles [Archive]

Expletive Deleted

06-20-2005, 10:30 AM

Two articles from Newsarama:

Geoff Johns Expands DCU Role (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=35963)"But more importantly, because we wanted to make sure that Infinite Crisis clearly established a lot of jump-on points for new series and new characters, Geoff was also very closely involved with seeing what we’d be doing with the characters following Crisis, and where they’d need to be by the end. So, he was reading a lot of material prior to things, and was responsible for a lot of the material that would be coming out of it as well."
Morrison Revamps DCU (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/MorrisonDCU.htm) “My job is to take gawky, ugly ducklings or faded blooms and turn them into superstars basically. In a way, I’m doing what Julie Schwartz did back in the mid-50s, when he and his writers took a bunch of old names from the files and created fresh new heroes for a new audience."

"Some of the overhauls are nip/tuck jobs; some are radical makeovers involving intensive but sensitive plastic surgery, starting from scratch with very different origin stories, secret identities or set-ups. I’ll be working with Geoff Johns, however, to ensure that all of the new books are tied neatly into DC continuity, particularly since most of these characters will play pivotal roles in the wild, rich and scary post-Crisis universe we’re all building towards at the moment."Morrison and Johns? That's an . . . interesting dynamic.

TCJohnson

06-20-2005, 11:06 AM

So much for variety. If all comic books are going to be like Johns...don't think I will be collecting for much longer.

Expletive Deleted

06-20-2005, 11:11 AM

Yeah, but . . . Morrison!

“The characters I’ve done so far are all very different and come from different areas of the DCU so I’ve been moving from shiny sci-fi, to bloody crime, and from generational soap opera to robot action with little heed to commonality of theme or purpose,” Morrison said. “I don’t like to stick to one genre and this gives me a chance to mix it up a little. The only thing I’m consciously trying to do with all of these recreations is to widen the ethnic spread of DC’s characters.”

Alan2099

06-20-2005, 11:13 AM

In short, More secondary heroes are going to be slaughtered, more main heroes are going to start acting like major jerks, more villians are going to be shown as better than the heroes ever where, and I will stop reading any DC titles.

Coming Next Month: All Star Rape Comics #1

the Monitor

06-20-2005, 11:45 AM

Newsarama is reporting that Grant Morrison has a new position at DC: (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/MorrisonDCU.htm)
In effect, he's taking a position that will work alongside Geoff Johns' new role to help architect the DCU that comes out the other side of Crisis.

I think it's a GREAT idea. 7 Soldiers has been nothing but great and I can't wait to see what fruit this new tree yields.

cactusmaac

06-20-2005, 11:48 AM

Johns/Morrison != Meltzer

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 11:50 AM

Geoff Johns AHHHHHHH MY BRAIN HURTS.

Grant Morrison WHOOOOOOOA I'M AROUSED.

My body is confused. It's like when a really hot girl has a gigantic mole on her nose.

Pookienick

06-20-2005, 12:31 PM

As someone who likes Johns and Morrison I am looking forward to what happens. The comics they work on are usually more entertaining than many others - utilising many 'new' techniques such as plot and subplots that take more than six issues to resolve.

Hopefully, if they are directing the future of DC it should somewhere good - just hope my bank balance can take it.

Dave Cote

06-20-2005, 12:45 PM

It don't see why everyone is so negative about Johns and Morrision taking over. Becaus efrom what I read there not writing everything the are doing extra work in a consulting capacity to make sure the continuity is followed and to revamp secondary characters.I could understand be worried if only two writers (no matter how good) were writing the entire universe. You would lose a lot of diversity but that not the case so I don't see the need to threaten to drop all DC titles over it.I prefer to what and see how things play out. I find it silly when people over react and make harsh judgements beforehand.It just makes it easier for Joe Quesada not to take the internet seriously

Tom

06-20-2005, 12:47 PM

Good god, the rape-whines are getting old. I can't imagine what happens when some of you accidentally tune in to the Lifetime channel where women get raped on a daily basis.

TCJohnson

06-20-2005, 12:49 PM

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 12:51 PM

Good god, the rape-whines are getting old. I can't imagine what happens when some of you accidentally tune in to the Lifetime channel where women get raped on a daily basis.

If Lifetime broadcast Sesame Street, and that's where the rapes happened, I bet they'd still freak out, yeah. Or Pokemon.

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 12:52 PM

I am not complaining about the rape. I just don't like Johns work or Ruckas and getting tired that I can't read anything in the DCU without it tying into something they are doing, forcing me to read it. It is getting old really fast.

We can only hope that Morrison is doing some serious sigil magick within the DCU. Saving it from within.

Didn't he have an interview where he said that was his goal?

Wow, this could work.

Lightbend

06-20-2005, 12:52 PM

You know, the thing is that one of the major bitchings I hear about comics is the lack of continuity. So the expanding roles Morrison and Johns are taking, from what I see, are...

wait for it...

Making sure the titles follow continuity.

Huh. No wonder I don't post nearly as much.

Tom

06-20-2005, 12:58 PM

If Lifetime broadcast Sesame Street, and that's where the rapes happened, I bet they'd still freak out, yeah. Or Pokemon.
But they didn't and it's a lousy analogy. I hated IC. I hated the rape. I still think the constant whining about "all-rape" comics at this point comes off a little silly.

Hi Joe!

TCJohnson

06-20-2005, 01:03 PM

But they didn't and it's a lousy analogy. I hated IC. I hated the rape. I still think the constant whining about "all-rape" comics at this point comes off a little silly.

Hi Joe!

I would have thought that too if it wasn't for the fact that so many comics are pointing back to that scene. We had the Flash, Teen titans, Villains United, upcoming Superman comic, JLA....they are all point out to the rape and mind wipes that came after it. If we oculd just forget that it happened, fine. But they won't. That rape scene is the most important in DC comics right now.

Tom

06-20-2005, 01:06 PM

I'm not aware of any of those comics actually flashing back to the rape. The mind-wipe, yes. But as far as I can tell, the rape hasn't exactly become front and center at the DCU.

Tom

06-20-2005, 01:09 PM

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 01:13 PM

But they didn't and it's a lousy analogy. I hated IC. I hated the rape. I still think the constant whining about "all-rape" comics at this point comes off a little silly.

Hi Joe!

Yeah, I know. I didn't mention it, but I can see why people would. It's still the centerpoint of a story that's the centerpoint of a movement that's affecting a whole lot of comics. Listen, I just don't read any of this crap anymore. It's not offensive, it's just bad writing.

That said, you're right, there's a lot to be excited about coming from DC these days. The All Stars, Morrison's increased influence . . .here's hoping something big comes from it.

Tom

06-20-2005, 01:16 PM

Yeah, I know. I didn't mention it, but I can see why people would. It's still the centerpoint of a story that's the centerpoint of a movement that's affecting a whole lot of comics. Listen, I just don't read any of this crap anymore. It's not offensive, it's just bad writing.

That said, you're right, there's a lot to be excited about coming from DC these days. The All Stars, Morrison's increased influence . . .here's hoping something big comes from it.
That's really my only point. Like I said, I hated the rape. I really did. One of the top ten worst ideas ever seen in a comic, but I can't deny that a lot of what DC's doing right now turns my crank.

Ten years from now we'll be looking back at this period and discussing New Frontier, Ex Machina, We3, the All-Star books, Seven Soldiers. We won't be talking about Sue Dibney's rape.

Ilash

06-20-2005, 01:18 PM

Well, I'm just completely enthusiastic by this news. Geoff Johns is the perfect guy to look after continuity (which is now a fairly important task, considering the whole sahred-universe thing) and Grant Morrison focusing on resurrecting lesser-known characters sounds absolutely RIGHT. I like the fact that actual creators seem to have some actual control over what's happening in the DCU.

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 01:21 PM

That's really my only point. Like I said, I hated the rape. I really did. One of the top ten worst ideas ever seen in a comic, but I can't deny that a lot of what DC's doing right now turns my crank.

Ten years from now we'll be looking back at this period and discussing New Frontier, Ex Machina, We3, the All-Star books, Seven Soldiers. We won't be talking about Sue Dibney's rape.

No doubt, no doubt.

I can see why people still complain though. The mainstream DCU, aside from the things mentioned above, is all going down this hack Watchmen path, and there's something to be said for continuing to say "This is a bad idea."

Tom

06-20-2005, 01:27 PM

TCJohnson

06-20-2005, 01:30 PM

Anyway, I'm very excited about Morrison's new role in the DCU, less so about Johns but even then I think it shows great planning and foresight on DC's part.

Isn't anyone else even a little excited about DC lately? Revitalizing old properties, the All-Star books, the push for more western and science fiction-oriented stuff, signing major name creators to work on their dream projects? None of that gets you going? Not a little?

Oh yeah, I am very excited about what Morrison is doing. Anf from the sounds of it, he is not making other writers write his stories, he is just creating ideas that other writers can pick up. I am really excited about that and may pick up DCU comics again after infinite crisis is over.

It is the Johns thing that I am not really happy about.

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 01:33 PM

Just thought of another one! Adam Strange! Yeah! We'll be talking about that one too.

Anyway, I don't mind hearing "This is a bad idea" when it's actually about something that happens, rather than what we think is going to happen or what we fear is going to happen. Yeah, there's definitely a darker tone to the DCU and that's not to my liking either, but if I honestly thought that the coming storylines and events were going to center around rape, I wouldn't buy them. As it is, I see no reason to think they will.

Right, but it's not a dualistic existence. It isn't a)rape comics vs. b)good comics. The rape in IC was horribly offensive and stupid, but the lack of rape in its children doesn't make those books great or even decent. They're just not offensive.

Forsaken_One

06-20-2005, 01:33 PM

Hm, I'm not overly fond of Geoff Johns in large doses. And though it makes me in the minority I'm not all that fond of Morrison either, his comice really just confuse me for the most part. I liked WE3 but the latest Seven Soldiers stuff just seems confusing more than brilliant.

So i'll have to see how it goes I suppose. If true I'll likely be buying more marvel/indy comics, s'all.

GremlinClr

06-20-2005, 01:49 PM

But they didn't and it's a lousy analogy. I hated IC. I hated the rape. I still think the constant whining about "all-rape" comics at this point comes off a little silly.

Hi Joe!

Thank you! IC wasn't my favorite either but I get so tired of the one note complaints, please move on.

Tom

06-20-2005, 02:22 PM

Right, but it's not a dualistic existence. It isn't a)rape comics vs. b)good comics. The rape in IC was horribly offensive and stupid, but the lack of rape in its children doesn't make those books great or even decent. They're just not offensive.
Or necessarily bad.

My argument: if the connection of current storylines to the rape is tenuous (which so far, most of them are), then no one can rightfully make the claim that rape is somehow permeating the DCU.

CaptMagellan

06-20-2005, 02:45 PM

The Johns article brought me down but the Morrison one gave me a sense of excitement.

It'll be interesting to see what 2006 brings from DC.

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 02:50 PM

Or necessarily bad.

My argument: if the connection of current storylines to the rape is tenuous (which so far, most of them are), then no one can rightfully make the claim that rape is somehow permeating the DCU.

I don't think many people are saying it is. They're saying hack Watchmen writing is permeating the DCU. And it is. The Committe to Write DC Comics, as shown by Countdown, may not be showing more rapes, but they're certainly taking a nice long bath in clichedom.

Lex

06-20-2005, 03:40 PM

This is awesome! Dan Didio just did something right in my eyes. And it makes me even more interested in the "One Year Later" event.

I'm a huge fan of Morrison's work and I love DC's obscure and forgotten characters. I can't wait to see some of these projects that Morrison is sheperding. Whoo-hoo!

Patriot07

06-20-2005, 03:42 PM

Great news. I've always liked Didio, now there is more of a reason.

mike626

06-20-2005, 03:43 PM

This is awesome news! :D

Adem

06-20-2005, 03:46 PM

I think he sort of started revamping some characters by how he choosed lesser known characters for seven soldiers. I hope this will help Mister Miracle be seen more now in the DCU.

Adam Crocker

06-20-2005, 03:47 PM

Isn't anyone else even a little excited about DC lately? Revitalizing old properties, the All-Star books, the push for more western and science fiction-oriented stuff, signing major name creators to work on their dream projects? None of that gets you going? Not a little?

Well I'm not drop-dead excited (and the sheer extent of the lead in to Infinite Crisis makes me weary in that it feels) DC certainly has me much more interested in how this is all going to turn out than Marvel. Much moreso now that Morrison's being involved in developing ideas for the post-Crisis DCU (guh, this could get confusing), though I didn't get the impression he was fully opening into new genres so much as going through different genres for revitalizing DC owned superhero characters, but we'll see.

And I am interested in that comic he's writing about a glass of water.

Tom

06-20-2005, 03:51 PM

Well I'm not drop-dead excited (and the sheer extent of the lead in to Infinite Crisis makes me weary in that it feels) DC certainly has me much more interested in how this is all going to turn out than Marvel. Much moreso now that Morrison's being involved in developing ideas for the post-Crisis DCU (guh, this could get confusing), though I didn't get the impression he was fully opening into new genres so much as going through different genres for revitalizing DC owned superhero characters, but we'll see.

I was referring to the upcoming Jonah Hex series as well as DC's stated commitment to revitalize their sci-fi characters a la Adam Strange and Rann/Thanagar, which leads me to believe we'll see an ongoing within a year.

Forsaken_One

06-20-2005, 03:52 PM

I'm. like, one of the only five people in all of comicdom who'll admit to not liking Grant Morrison's writing, aren't I?

Adem

06-20-2005, 03:55 PM

I'm. like, one of the only five people in all of comicdom who'll admit to not liking Grant Morrison's writing, aren't I?

No you aren't most of his work I don't dig.

Lex

06-20-2005, 03:58 PM

Okay, back to the Morrison announcement. I've been hoping for years that someone would come along and polish up some underused and forgotten DC characters to make them cool. I thought I would just be getting that with Seven Soldiers and then everything goes back to only seeing obscure characters when writers want to kill them... but that won't be happening with Morrison around! :)

I have a feeling that DC will be great in 2006 (after the "One Year Later" event).

Lex

06-20-2005, 03:58 PM

I'm. like, one of the only five people in all of comicdom who'll admit to not liking Grant Morrison's writing, aren't I?

Yes. Yes you are. But we still like you... kinda. ;)

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 03:59 PM

I'm. like, one of the only five people in all of comicdom who'll admit to not liking Grant Morrison's writing, aren't I?

Yeah, that's it. The rest of us are only pretending to enjoy the best superhero writer in comics.

Tom

06-20-2005, 04:00 PM

Y'know before they even got to that part of the Morrison article, I was thinking "I bet he's got a Freedom Fighters pitch."

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 04:03 PM

Y'know before they even got to that part of the Morrison article, I was thinking "I bet he's got a Freedom Fighters pitch."

That gave me a bigger stiffy than you and bakla together ever have, and that's saying something. If there's any group of unused DC characters I think could be awesome, it's them.

Lex

06-20-2005, 04:07 PM

That gave me a bigger stiffy than you and bakla together ever have, and that's saying something. If there's any group of unused DC characters I think could be awesome, it's them.

Yeah, there's so many fun ideas to explore in their concept. Like, how has freedom changed from World War II to the beginning of the 21st century? I think Morrison could really dig deep into the concept of freedom. It would be very cool!

Tom

06-20-2005, 04:11 PM

That gave me a bigger stiffy than you and bakla together ever have, and that's saying something. If there's any group of unused DC characters I think could be awesome, it's them.
Metoo! Metoo!

Hands Across America!

Adam Crocker

06-20-2005, 04:13 PM

I was referring to the upcoming Jonah Hex series as well as DC's stated commitment to revitalize their sci-fi characters a la Adam Strange and Rann/Thanagar, which leads me to believe we'll see an ongoing within a year.

Ah, okay. I wasn't exactly sure what you were referring to so I just went by Morrison's statements on the genres he says he is dipping into.

Adam Crocker

06-20-2005, 04:14 PM

That gave me a bigger stiffy than you and bakla together ever have, and that's saying something. If there's any group of unused DC characters I think could be awesome, it's them.

Speaking as a curious, but underinformed comic reader: who were the Freedom Fighters anyhow and why would they be great?

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 04:15 PM

Metoo! Metoo!

Hands Across America!

THIS CALLS FOR A THREAD!!!!! (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=64224)

Zero Hunter

06-20-2005, 04:42 PM

While I think Morrison falls on his face almost as much as he hits homeruns with his writing I will say that he does have a great skill for revamping old characters and making them sing. He did it with two losers like the Key and the Shaggy Man in his JLA run, and if he can make guys like that cool it is hard to say what he could do with characters that are already somewhat cool to begin with.

Taskmaster

06-20-2005, 04:59 PM

I'm. like, one of the only five people in all of comicdom who'll admit to not liking Grant Morrison's writing, aren't I?

No, not only will i admit to not liking is work most of the time (only time I did was on JLA and even that was hit or miss), but I flat out hate 90% of his work, and this announcement immediately made me think "awww crap here comes the Martian Manhunter looks like Marvin the Martian because thats what I think of when I hear a martian" (ala Beast in New X-Men, and the totally out of character and overly complex stories that make no sense. But then again i'll give it a chance considering one of the few things he did revamp that I liked was the Shaggy Man as the General, so maybe he wont screw this up (sorry i'm still too disappointed and bitter over his horrible X-Men run to give him a benefit of the doubt yet)

Lex

06-20-2005, 05:08 PM

No, not only will i admit to not liking is work most of the time (only time I did was on JLA and even that was hit or miss), but I flat out hate 90% of his work, and this announcement immediately made me think "awww crap here comes the Martian Manhunter looks like Marvin the Martian because thats what I think of when I hear a martian" (ala Beast in New X-Men, and the totally out of character and overly complex stories that make no sense. But then again i'll give it a chance considering one of the few things he did revamp that I liked was the Shaggy Man as the General, so maybe he wont screw this up (sorry i'm still too disappointed and bitter over his horrible X-Men run to give him a benefit of the doubt yet)

From the sound of it, Morrison will only be sheperding projects dealing with making obscure characters marketable for DC. He probably won't even touch the big name characters like J'onn.

Forsaken_One

06-20-2005, 05:12 PM

Yeah, that's it. The rest of us are only pretending to enjoy the best superhero writer in comics.
I have absolutely no doubt that there are people who love his writing. I also have no doubt that there are people like me who dislike his writing for the most part. This is true of absolutely any writer, artist, or creative individual out there.

However while those who dislike Geoff Johns, Stan Lee, Jeph Loeb, John Byrne, or any other person out there are rather vocal it seems to me that it's almost taboo to say that Grant Morrison doesn't float your boat. It's not that people who think like me aren't out there, it just seems like they're afraid to admit that his writing is, in their (and my) opinion is often... bad.

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 05:18 PM

I have absolutely no doubt that there are people who love his writing. I also have no doubt that there are people like me who dislike his writing for the most part. This is true of absolutely any writer, artist, or creative individual out there.

However while those who dislike Geoff Johns, Stan Lee, Jeph Loeb, John Byrne, or any other person out there are rather vocal it seems to me that it's almost taboo to say that Grant Morrison doesn't float your boat. It's not that people who think like me aren't out there, it just seems like they're afraid to admit that his writing is, in their (and my) opinion is often... bad.

In my experience, the people that don't get Morrison are EXTREMELY vocal. And they always use an argument like this, portraying themselves as downtrodden underdogs, brave iconoclasts that see the TRUTH! It just seems rather silly. The whole "a lot of people agree but are afraid to say it because of the MEAN MORRISON FANS . . .but NOT ME! I AM THE BRAVE TRUTHTELLER" thing is not really the way to go.

Forsaken_One

06-20-2005, 05:24 PM

In my experience, the people that don't get Morrison are EXTREMELY vocal. And they always use an argument like this, portraying themselves as downtrodden underdogs, brave iconoclasts that see the TRUTH! It just seems rather silly. The whole "a lot of people agree but are afraid to say it because of the MEAN MORRISON FANS . . .but NOT ME! I AM THE BRAVE TRUTHTELLER" thing is not really the way to go.
How is this in any way an argument? I'm saying I haven't seen many people say they don't like Morrison's work while I've seen a lot of people praising it to high heaven and I, personally, fall into the "don't like" camp. That's not really an argument for or against how good his writing is, that's just a comment on what I've observed in fandom.

I think you're reading waaaay too much into my comments. I never said I was an underdog, I said I think there's a tendency for people who don't like Morrison to not comment on it for whatever reason. And, frankly, with that rather rude post I think I can see why.

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 05:27 PM

How is this in any way an argument? I'm saying I haven't seen many people say they don't like Morrison's work while I've seen a lot of people praising it to high heaven and I, personally, fall into the "don't like" camp. That's not really an argument for or against how good his writing is, that's just a comment on what I've observed in fandom.

I think you're reading waaaay too much into my comments. I never said I was an underdog, I said I think there's a tendency for people who don't like Morrison to not comment on it for whatever reason. And, frankly, with that rather rude post I think I can see why.

It's a pattern I see. People who don't get Morrison always complain that they're SURE other people don't get him, but are "too afraid" to post. I say it's malarky. The people that don't like him are very vocal. Fact is, there's not really that many of them. Spin this how you want, but in every post you made an effort to show how sure you were that lots of other folks agreed with you, they just were too scared to say so.

Evan Lanctot

06-20-2005, 05:29 PM

I personally have no problem with either Johns' or Morrison's work....any changes they make can't be worse than Quesada's at Marvel(puts on flame retardant suit) :D

Evan

Lex

06-20-2005, 05:37 PM

Just think of all the obscure gems Morrison could polish up.

Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld
Animal-Vegitable-Mineral Man
Argus
Atomic Knight
Batmen of Many Nations (in the article he mentioned doing something with Knight and Squire)
Blue Jay
Brother Power, the Geek
B'Wanna Beast
Captain Fear
Courageous Man & Minute Lad
The Creeper
Doctor Thirteen
El Diablo
The Faceless Hunter from Saturn
Flora
Gadgeteer
The Ghost Pilot
Grockk, the Devil's son
Hero Hotline
The Inferior Five
Jemm, Son of Saturn
Marvel Maid (he mentioned her in the article)
Metal Men
Mister Originality
The Moondancers
Multi-Face
Multi-Man
Onyx
Prez
Prince Ra-Man (maybe he could be King Ra-Man that appeared in Zatanna #1)
The Ravers
Ray Gun S-64
Rodeo Rick
The Seven Shadows
Silver Frog
Sizematic Twins
Skyrocket (I can dream, can't I?)
The Space Cabbie
Steel
The Tornado Twins
Tyros, the Outcast of Atlantis
Ultra The Multi-Alien
Ur the Caveboy
Viking Commando
Vox, the Bionic Bandit
Werewolf of Krypton
Wild Dog
The Wonder Twins
Yankee Doodle

DC has a ton of characters that no one is even thinking about using (except to kill off in order to make a villain look tough). There's a lot of potential in these characters and a lot of others. Each one could produce at least one fun mini-series and many could probably sustain a longer series. There's no end to the posibilities!

Forsaken_One

06-20-2005, 05:42 PM

Samurai

06-20-2005, 05:47 PM

I'm. like, one of the only five people in all of comicdom who'll admit to not liking Grant Morrison's writing, aren't I?
I'm another... who are the other 3, I wonder?

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 05:47 PM

I haven't exactly seen you backing up your opinion with relevent examples or statistics. As far as I can tell your opinion that everyone sans a small minorty agrees with you is just as unsubstantiated as my belief that people hold a wide variety of opinions but don't speak out for whatever reason.

I also like how you said I don't "get" Morrison rather than I don't like his writing style. Yes, because anyone who doesn't like him simply doesn't "get" him. You do though, that's why you're so cool. :rolleyes:

No, that doesn't make me cool. It means I understand Morrison's comics. Don't hold a pity party for yourself just yet.

My opinion is actually more substantiated, and you admitted to it originally. You agree that more people seem to like Morrison than don't. Your thesis was that there were other Morrison fans too scared to admit it. There is no evidence for that. All evidence seems to show that some people don't like Morrison's work, but most superhero fans do.

fuaak

06-20-2005, 05:53 PM

This is great and/or awesome news.

Ninety, eighty or even seventy per cent of what Morrison touches turns into gold. The rest becomes incomprehensible gibberish, like The Filth, Flex Mentallo or The Invisibles, but I can live with that.

Forsaken_One

06-20-2005, 05:55 PM

No, that doesn't make me cool. It means I understand Morrison's comics. Don't hold a pity party for yourself just yet.

My opinion is actually more substantiated, and you admitted to it originally. You agree that more people seem to like Morrison than don't. Your thesis was that there were other Morrison fans too scared to admit it. There is no evidence for that. All evidence seems to show that some people don't like Morrison's work, but most superhero fans do.
Yes, but your comment assumes I don't understand Morrison's comics. I think I do understand them, I'm just not particuarly fond of them. Your comments seem, to me, to attempt to belittle those who don't like Morrison as a writer, to paint them as simply people who don't understand his great genius rather than people who understand but don't enjoy his work.

Which is part of that whole "don't speak out because a rabid Morrison fan will jump all over you" thing we're seeing right here. ;)

Both of our ideas are unsubstantiated actually. There's no evidence for either one. That's the very definition of unsubstantiated.

Joe Rice

06-20-2005, 05:57 PM

Both of our ideas are unsubstantiated actually. There's no evidence for either one. That's the very definition of unsubstantiated.

Except there IS evidence that lots of people that like Morrison.

Forsaken_One

06-20-2005, 06:01 PM

Except there IS evidence that lots of people that like Morrison.
If so it hasn't been presented here. We can agree on it, but we can also agree the sky is yellow, that doesn't mean we have evidence of the sky being yellow.

In any event, this is a rather silly argument. I still hold frim to my belief, and the fact that people are speaking out about their dislike of Morrison, or at least some of his work, makes me feel a bit less alone. :)

Bat-Mite

06-20-2005, 06:26 PM

While I do not agree completely with Joe Rice's idea of people who are not fans of Morrison, I have encountered several people who 'don't get' Morrison and are somehow convinced nobody 'gets' Morrison, and we simply pretend we 'get' him and make up silly theories about what his work is all about.

I remember talking to one guy called Ed Love at Comicboards. He said Morrison's Doom Patrol makes absolutely no sense, and I showed him the blog of some guy who was explaining Doom Patrol, and making a very interesting job out of it. Ed Love's response was that the guy there was making everything up. Cause, you know... we all love to pretend we 'get it.'

I just don't think it's the majority.

Quite frankly, I would have let your line pass, simply because it is completely mild compared to some of the oddest 'Boy, am I the only one who doesn't like Morrison' lines I have read.

In any case, I am happy the DCU is getting an infectious injection of hyperimagination into it's veins.

Glaucon

06-20-2005, 06:47 PM

Grant Morrison really is my favourite writer in the business so I can't be happier. However, I do understand why a number of people do not enjoy his work. The narrative is not always straight forward, sometimes themes are almost too hidden, and some material can be so esoteric that you might think that he is completely pulling it out of thin air. However, these are the reasons I like him. His research is extensive but portrayed creatively, and you can hardly call his work predictable. I can't wait to see him on as many titles as he can do.

PanzerMega

06-20-2005, 07:31 PM

Phoney Bone

06-20-2005, 07:36 PM

I'm. like, one of the only five people in all of comicdom who'll admit to not liking Grant Morrison's writing, aren't I?

I'm not a fan of his scripting or plot resolutions, but, his ideas are the most fun and original in comics today. The man is an idea machine.

And at what point did the "blame" for Sue Dibney's rape shift from Brad Meltzer to Geoff Johns? Did I miss something?

Corrina

06-20-2005, 07:44 PM

We won't be talking about Sue Dibney's rape.

I SO hope you're right.

Edited to add that I'd be a lot more excited if Darwyn Cooke was involved.

Geoff Johns in a very good writer who can produce excellent work but it doesn't strike me overall as particularly inventive or intense.

Grant Morrison is the opposite. He strikes me as inventive and intense, story-wise. Unfortunately, I often can't make head or tails of the actual narrative in his comics. :)

So maybe the combination will be a very good one.

Phoney Bone

06-20-2005, 07:58 PM

I read the Newsrama article and saw this qoute by Johns:

So I’ve been talking to everyone - Bill Willingham (ask him about the turkey farm), Dave Gibbons, Gail Simone, Darwyn Cooke, Allan Heinberg, Judd Winick, Keith Giffen (yeah, wait until you see what he’s got planned), Jeph Loeb... etc., etc...

I read that and it gives me even more hope that, after the darkness leading up to and including Infinite Crisis, the DCU will be a much brighter and heroic place than ever before.

Suzanne

06-20-2005, 09:22 PM

Fantastic.

Just excellent news. To maintain continuity and have a vast, cohesive world, you need some people to help direct the vision. There's no way that Johns and Morrison are going to "TAKE OVER THE DCU!!!" because there's no way either guy has time to write every book.

They are just going to lend their expertise to the rest of the line. And I can't think of two better writers to do so. Huge fans of both of them.My sentiments exactly. I don't get all these complaints about them taking these positions, particularly Johns. It's one thing to dislike their writing, and that's fine, but it's not like they're writing every book. So everyone take a deep breath, relax, and wait and see what happens :)

And I'm not just tired of rape complaints, I'm sick of Identity Crisis complaints period. Sorry, had to get that out of my system :p

Paul McEnery

06-20-2005, 10:48 PM

It's a pattern I see. People who don't get Morrison always complain that they're SURE other people don't get him, but are "too afraid" to post. I say it's malarky. The people that don't like him are very vocal. Fact is, there's not really that many of them. Spin this how you want, but in every post you made an effort to show how sure you were that lots of other folks agreed with you, they just were too scared to say so.

How is this in any way an argument? I'm saying I haven't seen many people say they don't like Morrison's work while I've seen a lot of people praising it to high heaven and I, personally, fall into the "don't like" camp. That's not really an argument for or against how good his writing is, that's just a comment on what I've observed in fandom.

I think you're reading waaaay too much into my comments. I never said I was an underdog, I said I think there's a tendency for people who don't like Morrison to not comment on it for whatever reason. And, frankly, with that rather rude post I think I can see why.

Umm....

Boy I like critical thinking.

For the record:

People who don't like Grant's work are a dime a dozen. Gazillions of them out there. They make lots of noise. Pretending that isn't the case is, well, out of touch.

Getting shirty with people over a matter of taste is, well, out to lunch.

Asking people why they don't like Grant's work... well, that's an interesting question.

So, Forsaken (and Wane, and whomever else)... why not?

Justin Davis

06-20-2005, 11:40 PM

Tom shows one of the reasons he's so bright and shiny to me:

Anyway, I'm very excited about Morrison's new role in the DCU, less so about Johns but even then I think it shows great planning and foresight on DC's part.

Isn't anyone else even a little excited about DC lately? Revitalizing old properties, the All-Star books, the push for more western and science fiction-oriented stuff, signing major name creators to work on their dream projects? None of that gets you going? Not a little?

It gets me going. A lot. It's good to see someone else excited about DC. Yeah, there's some elements of DC that I don't love right now, (like Blue Devil's dark look....again) but others I lurve. Not just love, but I lurve them. DC seems to finally realise what an immense universe it has at its disposal by spotlighting and then greenlighting books with western, magical, sci-fi, and spy appeal just to name a few. They're giving small characters like Manhunter, Breach, and the newly revitalized Adam Strange and soon-to-be Warlord a chance to shine while still being smart enough not to keep them ostracized from the rest of the DCU. Big name creators are being brought in to piece together a cohesive map of the DCU and also spin a few creative yarns while they're at it.

Now, I like Johns's JSA and I've grown tired of his Flash even though the current arc isn't half-bad. However, he's not writing all the DCU. Maybe he's doing the one thing that he may have been destined to do all along at DC. He's the glue. He's going to be the guy who makes sure that it makes sense for this character to be in that book while that character is appearing in this book. Also, he's not writing the personalities of characters, just wants to make sure the personaly of a character doesn't blatantly, and without reason, contradict itself from one book to another. That seems fine and fitting to me.

As for the not liking Grant Morrison's writing bit that went back and forth between Joe and Forsaken here: What's up with that? So, he doesn't like Morrison. So what? I think he has a point in saying that some people don't want to admit to not liking his work because they're afraid they'll get jumped on and have to justify their reasoning or defend their intelligence for doing so. Now, I've liked Morrison's writing except for a couple exceptions here or there. Fine with me if you want to have Morrison babies and good for the guy who would want you to abort them.....holy crap... that sounds bad. Oh, well.

Also, rape comics? Seriously? Rape comics? One scene in one mini. That's it. Sure, the mini had to do with a lot of other books that are coming out, but not necessarily the rape and I think it's silly to start throwing around words like rape comics.

One last thing and that's a quote from the Johns article:
"When Animal Man and Fire and Damage show up, they have to have a specific reason to be there, they have to be there for the sake of story not just appearance, otherwise they’re not going to be in it (though those three definitely are)."

That's cool. I want to see a Damage comic and I don't want it to suck like how he was handled in Titans a while back.

Now, back to the rants.

Babylon23

06-21-2005, 01:02 AM

I think DC has the right idea here. They have chosen two of their most respected writers and given them expanded duties that play to their strengths. Like or hate them, both Johns and Morrison have shown that they are ideally suited to their new roles.

With Johns, DC can create a shared universe and a crossover that may actually work. Continuity is his strength, and is important in the leadup to Infinite Crisis. With Morrison, DC has the chance to have one of comic's most creative writers tap into their vast back catalogue of characters and unleash their potential.

2006 is shaping up to be an exciting year for DC.

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 03:33 AM

I wasn't calling Forsaken_One to task because he doesn't like Morrison. Whatever, he can have bad taste if he wants. I was calling him to task for the "hidden legions" mentality, which I've read before, is annoying, and is untrue.

"Rape comics" is a pretty strong way to put it. I prefer ADD's "hack Watchmen." It's perfect. It's a less-skilled writers-editors team trying to take back the "glory" of the 80s, and totally missing the point.

Patriot07

06-21-2005, 03:58 AM

So much for variety. If all comic books are going to be like Johns...don't think I will be collecting for much longer.

Ever the cynic aren't we? It doesn't mean Geoff's going to be writing everything. He's just going to shape everything. I don't see why everyone hates Geoff Johns right now. He's a good writer. He knows the characters far better than anyone else in the industry. You guys may not like the editorial decisions, but news flash, he's not the editor. He didn't kill Blue Beetle. The editors did. He just wrote a good story to go along with it. Also, Geoff's runs have always been about rebirth. He helped bring the JSA into modern times, he helped re-establish Teen Titans, he made The Flash good again, and he brought back the very thing that made Green Lantern original (The Corps).

PatrickG

06-21-2005, 07:10 AM

Patriot07

06-21-2005, 09:11 AM

But they didn't and it's a lousy analogy. I hated IC. I hated the rape. I still think the constant whining about "all-rape" comics at this point comes off a little silly.

Hi Joe!

I agree. Sue Dibny was raped and by Brad Meltzer. He is not Geoff Johns nor are they anything similar.

TCJohnson

06-21-2005, 09:31 AM

Ever the cynic aren't we? It doesn't mean Geoff's going to be writing everything. He's just going to shape everything. I don't see why everyone hates Geoff Johns right now. He's a good writer. He knows the characters far better than anyone else in the industry. You guys may not like the editorial decisions, but news flash, he's not the editor. He didn't kill Blue Beetle. The editors did. He just wrote a good story to go along with it. Also, Geoff's runs have always been about rebirth. He helped bring the JSA into modern times, he helped re-establish Teen Titans, he made The Flash good again, and he brought back the very thing that made Green Lantern original (The Corps).

I disagree, I don't think he is a good writer. Just because you like his books does not mean everybody does. But that all comes down to personal taste. Normally I would say you read his books, I will read my Heinberg and Simone and we would both be happy. But now that he is shaping everything...well, can't really avoid his books now, can I? Unless I just drop all of DC together.

hangmanjury

06-21-2005, 10:18 AM

I think Geoff Johns is the best writer in the mainstream today, and I think Grant Morrison is the best idea man in the business today.

The thing with Geoff is he writes like a fan reads. And by a fan, I mean me. When stuff happens in his books, he knows exactly how to press my buttons. I love it.

Grant Morrison. Geoff Johns. The New DC. I'm happy.

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 10:51 AM

The thing with Geoff is he writes like a fan reads. And by a fan, I mean me. When stuff happens in his books, he knows exactly how to press my buttons. I love it.

This exactly what I can't stand about his writing. It's nerd pandering at the lowest level.

Rich L

06-21-2005, 10:57 AM

The way I picture it, somebody pitches a "Chief Man-of-the-Bats" revival to DC. Didio calls the writer into his office.

"I think we need... to talk. Would you be interested in... a special, shall we say, assignment?"

Suddenly, a bookshelf spirals around and in steps Grant Morrison in his familiar zootsuit and sunglasses. He tosses a large stack of comics onto the lap of the writer.

"Are you gonna sweet talk the kid all day, Didio, or are we going to get this transdimensional meme construction show on the road? Kid's on my team...

"Now. Follow me to the fiction suit decompression chamber. We've got a sentient quantum subdomain to inocculate..."

Funniest post I've read all day! :D

And personally I think that Johns and Morrison will do well. Both good writers with different strengths. Morrison's fantastic with ideas but sometimes trips on the execution and scripting, while Johns handles characterisation and dialogue very well. Ask me, they complement each other very well.

Patriot07

06-21-2005, 10:58 AM

This exactly what I can't stand about his writing. It's nerd pandering at the lowest level.

Umm... dude, Isn't that what he's payed to do? Write books that fans will enjoy?

Patriot07

06-21-2005, 10:59 AM

CaptMagellan

06-21-2005, 11:18 AM

Umm... dude, Isn't that what he's payed to do? Write books that fans will enjoy?

To me, and maybe Joe Rice feels this way too, it isn't what I enjoy but instead feels like paying for Geoff John's fanfiction.

Forsaken_One

06-21-2005, 11:20 AM

I wasn't calling Forsaken_One to task because he doesn't like Morrison. Whatever, he can have bad taste if he wants. I was calling him to task for the "hidden legions" mentality, which I've read before, is annoying, and is untrue.
I don't think you were "calling [me] to task" at all, I think you were complaining about something that is a pet peeve with you and were were doing so in a very rude manner. I don't appreciate being told what I do and don't understand; had I not understood his work I would have said that I find it incomprehensible. For the most part, I don't (though Invisibles was close).

I visit all of three boards on comic books and two review sites. Here, Zcult, Geoff Johns forum, the Fourth Rail, and Silver Bullet Comic Books. That's it. And on these three message boards and two review sites I've seen very few people posting about how they don't like Morrison, whereas I've talked to people IRL or via PM/IM that say they don't really enjoy his work, or they don't enjoy the majority of his work.

So I created a theory. On my own. I am not a member of some vast conspiracy to piss you all off. Those who dislike Morrison's writing don't have a special IRC chat room that you can't come to where we plan this stuff. From my experience with these three boards I formed my opinion. I apoligize if you all read the "I hate Morrison" website or somesuch, but I was unaware such a site existed.

Has it perhaps occured to you that people who dislike Morrison don't believe that people stay silent about they're dislike of his writing because they're jealous of your understanding, but rather because they've been shouted at by fans like yourself for so much as a two word comment in a one scentence post that was obviously a joke?

In any event, as I said on (now this) thread, we'll see how it goes. It could be horrible, it could be great, and if it's horrible, well, I'll just read more of other publishers. But obviously great new stories would be a wonderful outcome and I hope for the best.

SuperManny

06-21-2005, 11:28 AM

To me, and maybe Joe Rice feels this way too, it isn't what I enjoy but instead feels like paying for Geoff John's fanfiction.

But....Geoff Johns fan fiction = current DC Universe storytelling....

I just like his style of writing for the amount of fun it's been reading his titles.

Is it that pigeon-holed, compared to someone like Greg Rucka or AJ Lieberman?

:confused:

Tom

06-21-2005, 11:55 AM

Swingkid570

06-21-2005, 12:33 PM

I disagree, I don't think he is a good writer. Just because you like his books does not mean everybody does. But that all comes down to personal taste. Normally I would say you read his books, I will read my Heinberg and Simone and we would both be happy. But now that he is shaping everything...well, can't really avoid his books now, can I? Unless I just drop all of DC together.

Maybe you should then.

Let me tell you a story- Growing up in the 70s and 80s, I was a huge STAR TREK fan. Watched the reruns endlessly, read what little there was in the way of novels (at least until the Pocket line started in the mid-80s). However, I lost interest around the end of NEXT GEN/ beginning of DS9. I had discovered BABYLON 5 and found it to fresh and innvigorating. I tried watching DS9, but found it to pale in comparison. Finally, I just gave up on the franchise cold turkey. Watched from afar at the trainwreck that was VOYAGER and the early seasons of ENTERPRISE. Was part of the reason I grew disenchanted with what was happening with the franchise due to the two guys who were charge? Very probably. When they decided to take a less handson approach with ENTERPRISE's last season, I tuned in and found myself liking TREK for the first time in a while. (That is up until that final episode which really stank...)

So what I'm saying is, maybe, if you don't like waht's happening and who is going to be sheparding things for the next year or two, you take a break. Go read some back issues and fill some holes in the collection. Read more Marvel books or indies. Maybe catch up on some literary classics.

I know I was disappoointed when I realized I just didn't care about new STAR TREK anymore, but I realized that these things are cyclical. Sooner or later there will be some writers and editors who will steer things back towards the type of stories you enjoy...

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 12:43 PM

To me, and maybe Joe Rice feels this way too, it isn't what I enjoy but instead feels like paying for Geoff John's fanfiction.

I want a writer to challenge both himself and his audience. Johns just gives in to base nerd desires. Fan fic is the right thing to call it, the way he links everything together and adds countless nerd details that do nothing for the story save take attention away from its cliched nature.

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 12:46 PM

But....Geoff Johns fan fiction = current DC Universe storytelling....

Hence the fact that I can't stand 99% of the DCU titles out there not counting Plastic Man and Seven Soldiers.

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 12:48 PM

I agree that Johns's stuff panders to the fans and that that's not necessarily a good thing, nor does it tend to make for good writing. He's not a bad writer per se, it's just that a lot of his stuff comes across to me as pretty formulaic.

Having said that, his new role as the DCU idea guy may just be a perfect fit for his talents.

I agree with Tom completely. Here's hoping. He's definitely had some good ideas before, he just always seemed to take silly/easy ways in executing them.

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 12:51 PM

Maybe you should then.

I believe TC's point was that he in no way wanted to read Johns-influenced books, but DID, in fact, want to read Morrison-influenced books. So now he's confused, like Forsaken reading Invisibles.

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 12:54 PM

I don't think you were "calling [me] to task" at all, I think you were complaining about something that is a pet peeve with you and were were doing so in a very rude manner. I don't appreciate being told what snip snip

Right, OK. You were just joking. My bad.

Bat-Mite

06-21-2005, 12:56 PM

I apoligize if you all read the "I hate Morrison" website or somesuch, but I was unaware such a site existed.

We just call it the John Byrne Message Board.

Shellhead

06-21-2005, 12:58 PM

I want a writer to challenge both himself and his audience. Johns just gives in to base nerd desires. Fan fic is the right thing to call it, the way he links everything together and adds countless nerd details that do nothing for the story save take attention away from its cliched nature.

If you want to see what fanfiction published by DC would really look like, get some issues of Nightwing that were written by Devin Grayson. Geoff Johns may be a bit of a Silver Age throwback, but he's given us some decent stories exploring the difference between heroes and vigilantes in the pages of JSA. Grayson has given us some mindnumbingly bad characterization, the rape of the hero, and a horrific disregard for the supporting characters.

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 12:58 PM

We just call it the John Byrne Message Board.

Heyoooo! Zing!

Bat-Mite

06-21-2005, 01:09 PM

If you want to see what fanfiction published by DC would really look like, get some issues of Nightwing that were written by Devin Grayson.

But that's different! Geoff's fanfic is the innocuous Republic of Nerdia stuff approach. Devin's is outright slash Mary Sue rapes everyone approach.

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 01:16 PM

If you want to see what fanfiction published by DC would really look like, get some issues of Nightwing that were written by Devin Grayson. Geoff Johns may be a bit of a Silver Age throwback, but he's given us some decent stories exploring the difference between heroes and vigilantes in the pages of JSA. Grayson has given us some mindnumbingly bad characterization, the rape of the hero, and a horrific disregard for the supporting characters.

No, he really hasn't. He's given us boring retreads of what better writers did twenty years ago. I like how people say that Johns is a Silver Age or Golden Age guy. That's patently untrue. His references are all to 1980s books (most of whom were Roy-Thomas-Golden-Age-Obsessed) ad nauseum, not the actual original material.

CaptMagellan

06-21-2005, 01:44 PM

But that's different! Geoff's fanfic is the innocuous Republic of Nerdia stuff approach. Devin's is outright slash Mary Sue rapes everyone approach.

Bwah-ha-ha-ha!

No, he really hasn't. He's given us boring retreads of what better writers did twenty years ago. I like how people say that Johns is a Silver Age or Golden Age guy. That's patently untrue. His references are all to 1980s books (most of whom were Roy-Thomas-Golden-Age-Obsessed) ad nauseum, not the actual original material.

That sums up John's style alright. His JSA=Roy Thomas pastiche. His Teen Titans=Marv Wolfman pastiche.

Puffy Treat

06-21-2005, 01:52 PM

Wow. This thread derailed quickly.

Anyway, sounds great! Loving 7 Soldiers, so sign me up!

cactusmaac

06-21-2005, 02:10 PM

Some of you seem to think that every book post Crisis 2 will be written in the style of either Geoff Johns or Grant Morrison and are whining\cheering accordingly.

That's not going to be the case.

Didio will be using Morrison to generate new ideas and new takes on characters and Johns will be responsible for making sure everything ties up, writer A doesn't rehash what writer B is doing and the DCU doesn't suffer from any Hawkman-like train-wrecks.

The actual execution will be heavily dependent on the writer who's involved. There'll be far too much going on and far too much stuff on their own plates for Johns and Morrison to micromanage all the DCU titles into a carbon copy of what they'd write.

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 02:15 PM

cactusmaac

06-21-2005, 02:27 PM

Well, other than Cooke, Morrison and Baker are you following any of the DCU writers?

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 02:33 PM

Well, other than Cooke, Morrison and Baker are you following any of the DCU writers?

I'd like to read Adam Strange . . .there are plenty of things I'd LIKE to read. But my fear is that those possibilities will dry up pretty fast.

Patriot07

06-21-2005, 02:43 PM

No, he really hasn't. He's given us boring retreads of what better writers did twenty years ago. I like how people say that Johns is a Silver Age or Golden Age guy. That's patently untrue. His references are all to 1980s books (most of whom were Roy-Thomas-Golden-Age-Obsessed) ad nauseum, not the actual original material.

That's your opinion. I really like his work and so do a lot of other people.

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 02:52 PM

That's your opinion. I really like his work and so do a lot of other people.

Hahahahaha! Perfect! (http://www.comicbookgalaxy.com/makebelievewar_001.html)

Puffy Treat

06-21-2005, 03:02 PM

A comic book message board, where people use a tone best described as "casual conversation".

Not really the best place to bring up formal rules, since no one (including yourself) follows them perfectly in such a place.

In casual conversation people use phrases like "In my opinion" and "I think" all the time. Be annoyed at it if you want, but I doubt anyone can convincingly argue that this place demands a more formal tone.

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 03:10 PM

I'm not asking for formality, no. I just thought it was hilarious that this guy totally said something I had mentioned in a column last week.

cactusmaac

06-21-2005, 04:10 PM

Hahahahaha! Perfect! (http://www.comicbookgalaxy.com/makebelievewar_001.html)

You were a pretty cute kid.

What happened? :)

Joe Rice

06-21-2005, 04:22 PM

You were a pretty cute kid.

What happened? :)

Too many comics.

Paul McEnery

06-22-2005, 01:12 AM

Well, other than Cooke, Morrison and Baker are you following any of the DCU writers?
Other than Cooke, Morrison and Baker...

Are there any other DCU writers?

Puffy Treat

06-22-2005, 01:28 AM

*No text here. As you were.*

Brian R

06-22-2005, 01:31 AM

Just stopping by to say thank you for this thread, it has reminded me why I dont visit these forums as much as I used to. The rampant negativity and fanboy whining is astounding. Good show.

Forsaken_One

06-22-2005, 02:26 AM

Just stopping by to say thank you for this thread, it has reminded me why I dont visit these forums as much as I used to. The rampant negativity and fanboy whining is astounding. Good show.
Happy to help. *waves*

Joe Rice

06-22-2005, 03:31 AM

Other than Cooke, Morrison and Baker...

Are there any other DCU writers?

Bless your heart.

Paul Newell

06-22-2005, 06:02 AM

Play nice, boys.

Joe Rice

06-22-2005, 06:37 AM

Play nice, boys.

Yes, sir, fellow Rannie.

Bat-Mite

06-22-2005, 08:12 AM

The rampant negativity and fanboy whining is astounding. Good show.

We'll be here all week. Kids get a free ticket on weekends!

CaptMagellan

06-22-2005, 08:50 AM

Not really the best place to bring up formal rules, since no one (including yourself) follows them perfectly in such a place.

I didn't get that he was asking for formal rules, just the acknowledgement that one needs to provide reasons for having an opinion if any sort of constructive interactive conversation is going to happen.

You can still be casual and recognize that someone has an opinion that is better thought out or supported than yours.

There's nothing wrong with the casual "You know I see your point and agree with what you're saying but there's still something about that issue of Shogun Warriors that I just LOVE!" as opposed to handwaving someones well informed arguement away with "That's just your opinion."

Typo Lad

06-22-2005, 09:13 AM

See, I think Morrison and Johns are a good balance.

Johns writes Good Comics. Not GREAT AMAZING MINDBLOWING OH MY G-D Comics. But that's okay. Sometimes you just want a good, solid read. He excells at the minutia of continuity, much like a modern day Mark Gruenwald. He'll fit well in this roll.

Wheras Morrison is the epitome of GOSH WOW comics. His goal is to blow your mind. If the little details don't make too much sense, feh - at least the story works on a macrocosmically scale.

Then you have how they re-imagine characters.

Johns likes to do the "back to basics" approach. Hawk and Dove are back to being twin siblings with opposing world views; Hawkman is Carter Hall; He even did it in his own writing when he realized that Linda Park West worked better as a reporter.

Morrison is more likely to say "Hey, forget that old stuff; this is new stuff." Someone earlier mentioned Julius Schwartz and I think the comparison is more valid than not.

I picture these two sitting in a room, bouncing ideas off each other. I then swoon a bit.

I can't imagien being unhappy with the end result.