Was there a period in Batman's (not Bruce Wayne's) life when he was relatively happy?

[Buried Alien]

We've only gotten glimpses of Bruce Wayne's life before the death of his parents, but I surmise that during those early years, he was reasonably happy. He was wealthy, and his parents weren't neglectful or abusive people. Of course, that was all shattered when his parents were murdered.

Bruce's life as Batman has been one of darkness and misery. Undoubtedly, however, it's been worse in recent years than it was in earlier years. Beginning with his messy breaking with Dick Grayson, the crippling of Barbara Gordon, the death of Jason Todd, being broken by Bane, regaining control of Gotham City from Azrael, the Gotham Contagion, the Gotham quake and No Man's Land, Jim Gordon's retirement, being accused of murder and becoming a fugitive, Hush, the probable return of Jason Todd as an enemy, finding out that the JLA betrayed him and mindwiped him in IDENTITY CRISIS, the loss of Spoiler and Jack Drake, and whatever will come out of OMAC/INFINITE CRISIS, it's been a rough series of years for Batman.

But it wasn't always that way, wasn't it? Were there a number of years in Batman's career, when he first joined the JLA and when Dick Grayson was Robin, when his life was *relatively* happy (as happy as Batman could be)? Things were more stable and predictable in those days, with fewer big crises. While it probably wasn't ever happy-go-lucky like the Pre-CRISIS Silver Age, life for Batman probably was better then than it is now.

What period of Batman's life, after becoming Batman, would be considered his "peak"...when he was as happy as he'd ever be?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Puffy Treat]

Reading your post, didn't you answer your own question? :)

[Buried Alien]

Reading your post, didn't you answer your own question? :)

What skews it, however, is retcons. You read those old Pre-CRISIS comics and you see that Batman/Bruce was relatively happy during those years, but with all the retcons, who's to say that that period still played out that way? Hence, the question. :)


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Puffy Treat]

Have there been any stories post 1985 in which Bruce states that he hated Dick's time as Robin?

(Identity Crisis and the like have obviously retconned Batman's League career into paranoia and misery.)

[Buried Alien]

Have there been any stories post 1985 in which Bruce states that he hated Dick's time as Robin?

There have been hints, but they were all in retrospect, so it's hard to say. Immediately after Jason Todd died, Bruce unleashed some latent resentment at Dick (actually, misplaced resentment at himself) for leaving (which is ironic since Bruce fired him), thereby putting Jason in a position to be killed. It's hard to say, however, whether that was just the trauma of Jason's death talking or if Bruce really did have issues with Dick that went all the way back to their partnership days.

More recently, in the NIGHTWING YEAR ONE series, we saw that Batman was already in the full jerk mode that we see him in today even back in the era of Dick's final days as Robin. What isn't clear, however, is if that had been a regular thing during their partnership or a then-new phenomenon that had only recently started.



Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Puffy Treat]

The retcon about being involuntarily mind-wiped by his own fellow Leagers and triggered into a cycle of obessive paranoia and free-floating resentment would probably fall in that time frame.

*sigh*

OT, why can't _any_ super-heroes be allowed a degree of purity and integrity these days?

[Mister Intensity]

Isn't the point of inserting the mind wipe is to explain why Batman became Batjerk?

Mister Intensity

[Puffy Treat]

But in the process it makes the JLA into free will-hating monsters, just as bad as the criminals they fight...if not worse because they're hypocrites about it.

"You don't agree with our actions? Well then...we'll just make you into our personal puppet so that you won't even know that we're doing such evil, reprehensible things! And we'll show no remorse!"

[muimi]

Post-crisis, I'd wager that Batman was "happiest" around the beginning of Dick's career as Robin. I say that because of Robin: Year One and Alfred's observation that he had heard laughter coming from the cave and the line, "I do believe I saw him smile" after Dick & Bruce came home from a night on patrol and Bruce reminded Dick to get some sleep.

[Murrocko]

What excactly caused the break between Batman and Robin, Bruce and Dick?

[muimi]

What excactly caused the break between Batman and Robin, Bruce and Dick?

Read Nightwing: Year One for the most recent full story. It broke down to the fact that Bruce felt that Dick was too busy to be an effective Robin for him and fired him because of it. (Read: Bruce being a Jerk.)

I believe before this latest retcon, it was that Dick was shot and Bruce fired him because the job was too dangerous... because that makes sense, really.

[Mister Intensity]

I believe before this latest retcon, it was that Dick was shot and Bruce fired him because the job was too dangerous... because that makes sense, really.

No, it doesn't! The only version that makes sense is that Dick quits because he realized he was too old to be Batman's sidekick, as in the original version as portrayed in New Teen Titans # 39-43.

Mister Intensity

[muimi]

I should have put /sarcasm after my previous post ;)

[trickster]

But in the process it makes the JLA into free will-hating monsters, just as bad as the criminals they fight...if not worse because they're hypocrites about it.

"You don't agree with our actions? Well then...we'll just make you into our personal puppet so that you won't even know that we're doing such evil, reprehensible things! And we'll show no remorse!"

It's not that they're "free will hating monsters", it's just that they dealt with the villains the only way they could. Some of the villains at least have some honor (Luthor just strikes at Superman, not Lois Lane, at least not that I know of). But Dr. Light, well now there's a headcase. What do you do with him? The jury'll just let him walk.

I'm curious, how many villains have they actually mindwiped? Do they give any names in the comics?

[Buried Alien]

What excactly caused the break between Batman and Robin, Bruce and Dick?

There have been three tellings of this scenario.

Pre-CRISIS, Bruce and Dick split on relatively benevolent terms. There had been some mounting tension between them because Dick had grown up and was no longer comfortable in the role of "kid sidekick". Bruce eventually accepted this, and it was entirely Dick's own decision to give up being Robin and become Nightwing. Bruce respected Dick's decision and allowed Dick to keep the Robin identity if that was what Dick wanted...even to the point that after naming Jason Todd his new partner, he and Jason tried to establish a new identity for Jason out of respect for Dick's identity as Robin. It was Dick who voluntarily returned to the Batcave and officially passed on the name and costume of Robin to Jason, with his blessing.

Post-CRISIS, Bruce fired Dick as Robin after the latter was shot by the Joker. Bruce told Dick that their war on crime had become too dangerous, and he no longer wanted to endanger Dick's life. Bruce did this as gently as possible, but Dick didn't take it well: he felt a bit betrayed by Bruce for taking away the only life he had known since the death of Dick's parents. This was compounded by the fact that Bruce went behind Dick's back and brought Jason Todd in as the new Robin about a year later.

Post-NIGHTWING YEAR ONE, the split was apparently *very* acrimonious...as Batman basically forced Dick to choose between continuing on as his partner or being a full time Teen Titan.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Guts/Batman]

It's not that they're "free will hating monsters", it's just that they dealt with the villains the only way they could. Some of the villains at least have some honor (Luthor just strikes at Superman, not Lois Lane, at least not that I know of). But Dr. Light, well now there's a headcase. What do you do with him? The jury'll just let him walk.

I'm curious, how many villains have they actually mindwiped? Do they give any names in the comics?


From what I have recently in JLA it was just the Secret Society. I doubt Luthor could ever be done in by that trick. Same with Talia.

And yes, while I would say from a real world thinking that "That is the best way of protecting the ones most vulnerable to you being who you are" in the comic book sense of DC's heros being more heroic it does make them hypocritical. Esp for lashing out at Batman for his paranoia, when they did something far worse than he ever has done.

[trickster]

Esp for lashing out at Batman for his paranoia, when they did something far worse than he ever has done.

Good point. Especially for those who keep saying "Batman is a jerk." Well, it's the friendly ones you have to worry about. He may be a jerk but he's a man with principles he's never given up on.
A bit unrelated, but I have a question: didn't the Joker have cancer? How come he was still alive when he got the crap beaten out of him by Jason Todd?

[Chaos_Sentry]

Kay well im a noob and I dont know what the hell a "retcon" is. I've looked it up but I still don't get it. Could someone please explain?

[Puffy Treat]

It's not that they're "free will hating monsters", it's just that they dealt with the villains the only way they could.

Making it very clear that you did not read the post you are replying to...no one (including me) mentioned the many villains they mindwiped. We're talking about when they mind-wiped Batman. You know, their friend and fellow Leaguer?

He disagreed with what they were doing, so they violated his mind.

That's evil. And not "the only way they could" deal with it. Dishonest, hateful...and yes, monstrous.

[Buried Alien]

Kay well im a noob and I dont know what the hell a "retcon" is. I've looked it up but I still don't get it. Could someone please explain?

"Retcon" is slang for "retroactive continuity editing." That happens when you write new stories that contradict events told in earlier stories.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)