Batman Begins

[mattbib]

Didn't see a real thread yet...

I went to the midnight showing here and I have to admit I was surprised at how much I loved this movie. Easily my favorite of any Batman film, including Burton's first.

The feel of this movie is simply much more realistic, less ridiculous, and certainly much more human. Even the most outlandish parts of the film (Scarecrow, some of the driving stunts) just came across as less cartoonish than similar elements in the earlier films. Neeson as Ra's Al Ghul was very understated, which I enjoyed, though I couldn't help observing similarities to speech he may have used as Qui-Gon.

The acting was fine across the board. My favorite character was Gordon. I loved how big his role was. Caine as Alfred was excellent also. Even Katie Holmes was great; she capably added a believable human element to the film, easily surpassing previous portrayals of similar roles played by Bassinger and Kidman.

The only parts during which I cringed were those featuring the little boy. These types of scenes normally pull me out of the story; almost like they're interruptions, but they actually played out well here, largely because they let other characters besides Batman get involved.

Lastly, the ending featuring the Joker's calling card was a great way to go out. We're set up for possible sequels or, if not, simply a (not so perfect) bridge to the later chronological films.

[surferfan23]

completely agree. Great film!!

[GUYANATHUGG]

Well, until I see Batman Begins I have to go with Tim Burton's Batman.

[Spiff]

Solid movie, well worth the 10 bucks. Only thing that kinda irked me was that Christian Bale's "Batman" voice seemed too forced, but maybe I'm just used to hearing the oh so perfect animated Batman voice.

So many cheers at the end teaser. So many.

[TheOnlyXTremeFan]

Loved the movie, couple of thoughts and spoilers!!! Don't go on if you haven't watched it yet.

1. The parents' death scene was...chilling and horrible. I watched the first Batman the other day and IMO Burton hit a wrong note with that scene, it seemed too over-the-top to me. But this version of it...really really sad.

2. I loved Rachel's speech at the end about masks.

3. So many great actors in this movie, every small little role was filled with somebody awesome.


SPOILERS!!!






4. I think... Ra's Al Ghul will return someday. Right as the train is crashing off the rail, the last we see of him he kinda just closes his eyes, IMHO it's kinda like a "you've won this round Bruce, I'll be back".[/spoilers]

Best Batman movie ever!

[Puffy Treat]

Neeson as Ra's Al Ghul was very understated, which I enjoyed, though I couldn't help observing similarities to speech he may have used as Qui-Gon.


Wait a minute...I haven't seen the film yet, only the trailers...but if Neeson's character is Ra's Al Ghul, then who was the sinster-looking bearded guy Ken Watanabe played that I saw in the trailer? :confused:

As far as the Joker card goes, Entertainment Weekly stated that Christian Bale has a contract for two more films if this is a success...the same article stated that this was a reboot of the franchise, not a prequel...so I would say what you saw was "sequel foreshadowing".

[mattbib]

Wait a minute...I haven't seen the film yet, only the trailers...but if Neeson's character is Ra's Al Ghul, then who was the sinster-looking bearded guy Ken Watanabe played that I saw in the trailer? :confused: You're meant to think Watanabe is Ra's, but he's really just a stand-in, allowing Neesom to act unrecognized.

[sehthan]

The theater I saw it at ran a Fantastic Four trailer in front of it. I found that kinda funny.


Pretty good movie. I'd say it's the best live-action adaptation of Batman, though I still like the Burton ones a lot for their stylishness, and the shameless camp of the 60's version is amusing, if an aberation.

I was a bit put off, though, by Batman's apparent recklessness in the Police chase scene. Alfred was right when he said it was a miracle no one was killed.

[ouiyahtsiouiyah]

I loved it as well, the end was almost exactly the same as Batman: Year One, and I loved how they made his glove spikes actually useful, best quote "Its a black....tank"

[Alex]

You're meant to think Watanabe is Ra's, but he's really just a stand-in, allowing Neesom to act unrecognized.
Which was destroyed by the fact that he looked more like Ra's, and has the exact same voice as the cartoon version.
I friggen loved the film, best Batman easily.

[Fabian]

This film was amazing. That's all there is to it. It is similar to the cartoon in that it captured the best elements of the Batman mythos that could translate well into film

[Arune Singh]

Damn. Damn. Seen it twice today and it keeps getting better. This was a great story about a man driven by guilt and the loss of his parents. THIS is how you do a "dark" comic book movie.

I liked the fact that a) Bruce went to university and b) Joe Chill was caught- those are two of my favorite pre-crisis elements. I love the scene in "Untold Legend of The Batman" where we see Bruce doesn't agree with the legal system. I also like that this Batman is driven by a desire to help EVERYONE, not just get his parents' murderer.

[Nikita]

Saw a midnight showing last night! It was AWESOME!!!!! Dark, brooding, intense....even the soundtrack was cool! GO SEE IT NOW!!!!

[ragnarok_2012]

So wonderful. Such a good movie.


One funny moment: is it my imagination, or did they not show whether or not the man condemned by the League of Shadows survived?

"I must save this man, killing dozens of extras and the Last Samurai guy. And by save, I mean blow up the building. If I have a choice on who to save, it is Liam Neeson, for I really liked him as Quigon Jinn."

[Puffy Treat]

Which was destroyed by the fact that he looked more like Ra's, and has the exact same voice as the cartoon version.
I friggen loved the film, best Batman easily.

David Warner sounds a bit more cold and crisp than Neeson.

[Beta Ray Bill]

The ending was the best. I got so excited when I saw the playing card. Everything was so good. Gary Oldman especially. I loved it.

[JeffreyWKramer]

This was easily the best of the Batman films. While not as visually striking and stylistic as the original Burton film, it works much better as a movie, and will no doubt hold up better to repeated viewings.

The casting was quite excellent overall. Bale was convincing, charismatic and interesting, Michael Caine was exceptional as Alfred, Neeson was truly outstanding as Ducard (Ra's al-Ghul in all but name). I was most impressed, though, with Gary Oldman's turn as Jim Gordon. Rather than playing the villain or the weirdo, as he tends to do, this time he played possibly the most normal guy in the film - and he did a bang-up job at it. The only casting choice that didn't work for me was Katie Holmes. Her character filled a story role but wasn't particularly interesting as a person. Tom Cruise and the Scientologists are welcome to her, far as I'm concerned.

The movie was nicely paced, exciting throughout and true to the spirit of the comics, if not the word. A worthy movie. I liked it quite a bit.

[Patient Boy]

So wonderful. Such a good movie.


One funny moment: is it my imagination, or did they not show whether or not the man condemned by the League of Shadows survived?

"I must save this man, killing dozens of extras and the Last Samurai guy. And by save, I mean blow up the building. If I have a choice on who to save, it is Liam Neeson, for I really liked him as Quigon Jinn."

That was my only problem with the movie. Since this is a thread for those who've already watched the movie, I don't think spoiler tags are necessary. When I watched that scene, I was thinking, "Huh? The guy would probably have died in the explosion anyway wouldn't he?" If he'd at least attempted to save the man as well his argument would've at least made sense.

Other than that, top notch stuff. Hopefully Gary Oldman gets a bigger role as Jim Gordon in the next movie.

[Artemis1]

I'll rate the films best to worst for me.

1. Batman Begins: The best one so far. I loved the ending. You can tell that the Scarecrow will be back(possibly Rah's as well) along with a new villain hinted at the end. I give this film a 5/5.

2. Batman Returns/Batman Forever(tie): Two awesome films. The Penguin was very interesting and Two Face was insane to the max. Both films get a 5/5 for me.

3. Batman The Movie: What a movie! Possibly one of the worst films ever made, yet one of the most enjoyable. It gets a 4.5/5 from me.

4. Batman: Good film. Though a little overrated, I thought it was still a good movie. Jack Nicholsen was great. 4/5 is a good rating for this film.

5. Batman and Robin: Poor excuse for a Batman movie. Poor Bane! How could they?!?!?! It's a 2/5 in my opinion. Bad movie.

[HomerJay]

Just got back from the 7 pm show...

SIMPLY AMAZING.

Exceeded all my expectations. I told my parents, "If you've ever seriously wondered why your son loves the character of Batman so much, this movie will answer your questions."

If I didn't have to get up early for work tomorrow, I'd be in the theatre seeing it again RIGHT NOW. I do need to see it again to gain a bit more perspective, but right now I'm feeling like it's the best "comic-book movie" since Donner's original SUPERMAN.

[Chuckg]

This movie rocked beyond all belief.

[Gordon Smith]

I was only moderately entertained by Batman Begins. I certainly can't see myself paying out good money to see this thing at the theater again. I just wasn't that moved by it.

[gketter]

Damn. Damn. Seen it twice today and it keeps getting better. This was a great story about a man driven by guilt and the loss of his parents. THIS is how you do a "dark" comic book movie.

I liked the fact that a) Bruce went to university and b) Joe Chill was caught- those are two of my favorite pre-crisis elements. I love the scene in "Untold Legend of The Batman" where we see Bruce doesn't agree with the legal system. I also like that this Batman is driven by a desire to help EVERYONE, not just get his parents' murderer.


ARUNE!!!!!! how's it going buddy!

I saw it tonight and LOVED IT!!! Great great movie

*sniff* finally a live action batman i can love.

[tangentman]

Batman Begins shows us what happens when the director and actors don't patronize their audience because they're making a "comic book movie". Excellent movie and a wonderful interpretation of Batman! Where would I possibly begin with what I loved about the movie?

Christian Bale, Neesam, Caine, Oldman, and Freeman, along with the rest of the solid cast? Yes, I want MORE Bale and Oldman, bring back Caine, give me a SEQUEL!

Would it be the interesting psychological study of a man tormented by old fears and guilt, frustrated by a corrupt legal system, nearly handicapped by his confusing revenge for justice? Bruce's inner struggle was so compelling to me. I was into those moments as much as the action scenes. The other characters played off this conflict quite masterfully--Alfred and Rachel trying to tether Bruce to what makes him a good man, Ducard/Ra's attempts at severing him from his humanity, Lucius' bemused cooperation, Gordon's desperation to meet one other honest person who wants justice in Gotham. Powerful work, and I hope films like this give a grand ol' FUCK YOU to intellectual snobs who don't see the possibilities of this genre.

The actions scenes complemented the story, instead of taking away from it. I also believed the gradual evolution of vigilante Bruce Wayne into the Batman, from his travels and studies, to the building of his arsenal. The violence was realistic enough and had consequences on those in the midst of it. I think particularly of the Batmobile chase and the Arkham inmates' rampage.

I read about the possible sequels and hope strongly to see more Batman movies from this creative team. I wouldn't mind seeing the next film be an adaptation of The Killing Joke or the Arkham Asylum graphic novel. Keep 'em coming, Nolan and Bale! :cool:

[Arune Singh]

ARUNE!!!!!! how's it going buddy!

I saw it tonight and LOVED IT!!! Great great movie

*sniff* finally a live action batman i can love.

Dude, PM me. I always call and you never answer.

This IS Batman. Compassionate but not an A-hole. There is NO writer in comic books who seems to write him this maturely. No one. He's a jerk to the villains and friend to the innocent. It ain't cheesy.

[Peter]

Loved it.

Loved it.

I clapped, I cheered, and I laughed, and during the monorail chase through the city, I was on the edge of my seat.

When the credits rolled, I was breathless. It was just an amazing film.

They nailed Batman *perfectly*. The right mix of ninja/east Asian mysticism, humanity and high-tech gadgetry, all rolled up in the bat-suit. The fight scenes were great, Batman was moving so fast you could barely catch sight of him (which I thought was a nice touch, although some people may not like it), and Batman is out-and-out *terrifying* -- but only to the bad-guys. It was great that the innocent -- in particular, the young boy -- recognised him as a hero.

Kudos to the actor playing ten-year-old Bruce -- that was *exactly* how a young Bruce Wayne should be. All that pain, anger and guilt right there on the screen. I loved every second of it. And yeah, the way they portrayed the murder of the Waynes was spot-on.

And I loved -- LOVED -- how they emphasised the pearl necklace. No wonder Bruce dedicated himself to ridding the streets of crime, his parents were really cool.

Michael Caine was great as Alfred, and Gary Oldman made a seriously cool Commissioner Gordon.

And even Katie Holmes -- they only tweaked continuity a *little* bit to include her into Bruce's backstory, and I think it worked. She provided the necessary love interest, and was someone the audience could zero in on amid all the carnage.

Coolness moment of the show, bar none...

Gordon -- "What's that?"
Batman -- "Back-up."

I got a chill at the sheer awesomeness of that one scene, right there.

They even got the "Bruce pretends to be an incompetent git" part of the man's character. I laughed my socks off when he *bought the freakin' hotel* so he could keep his girls company in the pool. That was great.

Everyone got to be badass, at that. Even Alfred -- and that moment at the end with Fox got a round of applause.

And the fact that I really liked was that they crammed so much of the Bat-verse into the movie, giving everybody little moments. As Cyke said, the supporting characters here are not supporting characters, they are vital parts of Batman's life. And the scene where Alfred confronts young Bruce is absolutely heart-breaking.

The one thing that I think comes close to breaking the deal is how Batman deals with al Ghul at the end. Comic Batman *would* have saved his life. But, given al Ghul just confessed to the murder of countless millions of people throughout history -- and given that we as the audience know for a fact al Ghul will probably survive -- I think we can forgive him that much. It was a great line, too.

"I'm not going to kill you. But I don't have to save you."

In short, I loved it.

Seeing it again? Short version -- yeah. Long version -- hell yeah.

Go see this film!

[Cyke]

YAY FOR IMAX!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, coming back from the movie, I do have to agree that this is the best Batman movie of all time, and for two primary reasons.

1. Now the viewer, and not just the comic-fan, knows why there's the whole Bat motif. Not only that, but the motivations are given such a strong backstory that even by that alone the movie would've succeeded from a story standpoint. Compare that to past Batman movies that spent upwards of, what, 5 minutes about why the death of the Waynes impacted Bruce. Because all this attention is given to Bruce as a child and Bruce well on his path to vengence, the viewer has a greater understanding and empathy for Bruce Wayne. Ironic that Batman, the shady hero, is given full trust but Bruce Wayne, the smiling public playboy, is the character packed with Grey Area. That's how strong the writer is, and the origin here barely contradicts any of the themes set up in the comics.

2. The secondary characters aren't really secondary at all. In the original four, the most Alfred ever did was to introduce Batgirl. Here, he has some of the best points, the most poignant lines, and some gutsy moments. Jim Gordon was this close to being an incompetent buffoon in the original four movies, but in here he plays a role that's almost as vital as Batman's. And the only reason why these secondary characters work as true characters and not as shadows of their comic parts are because they're given geniune personalities. You can believe that Gordon is one of the last good cops out there (making him every bit a hero as Batman is, and maybe even hinting that Gordon knows more about Batman's passion than he lets on), and you can believe that Alfred loved the Waynes as much as Bruce did (further adding why Alfred loves Bruce and why Alfred would be one of his mentors well into Bruce's career as Batman).

And on top of that, because of its more realistic and darker tone than the previous four movies, there's less bravado and special effects in this one than the previous four. But, as the narrative hits high gear, you begin to understand that the threat in this movie has been greater and darker than ANY of the threats that Batman faced in the other four. Let's hear it for substance over style!

There are witty lines and great little tidbits here and there (I'm so ecstatic that the writers kept in the comic fact that the Batcave used to be a part of the Underground Railroad, making the Wayne family even more noble) that it's really really hard to hate the writing at all. Lucius is so smart not just in mechanics and business, but in wit as well. And then seeing such great and legendary actors share the screen to be in a COMIC BOOK MOVIE gives me such great hope for future comic book movies in the future. There aren't many flicks where you'll see Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine sharing the screen, and seeing Rutger Hauer return to the big screen (as opposed to those crap b-movies he's been doing in the 90s) is a fantastic return to form.

And, honestly, anyone who says any of the four Batman movies were truer to the comics than 2005 Batman was has never truly studied the mythos of Batman. Keep in mind that in the movies, Batman was a-okay with using machine guns (the Batmobile) and with outright killing thugs. Those are two MAJOR no-nos in who Batman is.

I'm not ashamed to say this: I teared up when young Bruce ran to Alfred after the funeral. He wasn't crying melodramatically. He wasn't gasping for air. He tried to say what he felt and was quietly hushed.

[Peter]

Two moments in particular that I really loved --

1. They included freaking Mr Zsasz.

2. We actually see Batman putting his stuff together and designing his car and forging the Batarangs. *That* personally was a great scene.

[Cyke]

Two moments in particular that I really loved --

1. They included freaking Mr Zsasz.

2. We actually see Batman putting his stuff together and designing his car and forging the Batarangs. *That* personally was a great scene.

But it also kinda shows how psychotic he was. I mean, he personally shaped each shuriken into a the batshape? That's a lot of shuriken! That's a lot of time on his hands :)

Juuuuust kidding!

[Ramz]

My favorite scene in the movie had to be when Scarecrow was hit by his own toxin... you know whta scene I'm talking about if you saw this film.

Everything was amazing though.

One thing I was wondering about was Ra's A Gul, I know in the comics he's an immortal who uses the lazerus pit to sustain his life, something I thought about in the flim, well, more like my first impression was that Liam Neeson was actually Ra's the whole time, as to confuse enemies etc. But the more I thought about it, the more I thought that maybe the last samurai dude could have actually been Ra's, but to stay 'immortal' in a sense, the name is passed on?

I dont know, thought it would be a cool way to have Ra's as an immortal barring the supernatural.

[tangentman]

I loved the way Batman played on the old quote from the Pre-Crisis comics--"Criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot." The scene with Batman's debut played out this idea: Batman using his ninja tricks to appear from and vanish into shadows, amplifying his attacks with the Bat-devices to seem superhuman, dividing & conquering the first few thugs as an intimidation tactic. Brilliant stuff :)

[Cyke]

My favorite scene in the movie had to be when Scarecrow was hit by his own toxin... you know whta scene I'm talking about if you saw this film.

Everything was amazing though.

One thing I was wondering about was Ra's A Gul, I know in the comics he's an immortal who uses the lazerus pit to sustain his life, something I thought about in the flim, well, more like my first impression was that Liam Neeson was actually Ra's the whole time, as to confuse enemies etc. But the more I thought about it, the more I thought that maybe the last samurai dude could have actually been Ra's, but to stay 'immortal' in a sense, the name is passed on?

I dont know, thought it would be a cool way to have Ra's as an immortal barring the supernatural.

I knew Liam Neeson was Rha's Al Ghoul the instant I noticed that his facial hair extended into the trademark goatee that we all know, as opposed to Ken Watanabe's which didn't quite fit.

But if Liam Neeson was Rha's Al Ghoul, and that the League of Shadows has been a part of important historical events for thousands of years, it's quite possible that Rha's Al Ghoul was once...Oskar Schindler.

[Alex]

...Oskar Schindler.
But Schindler was a good man!
And he didn't kick anyones ass.

[Bryan Rios]

Absolutely fabulous movie. It was exactly as I was expecting. The actors were all really great. I think Christian Bale is a great Bruce Wayne AND Batman, where others in the past have been a good Bruce or a good Batman... not both. Michael Caine was probably one of my favorites. He was a great Alfred. Morgan Freeman was awesome as Lucius Fox. And Gary Oldman was also one of my favorites as Jim Gordon.

There were some nice humorous moments, and tons of great action. And the end with the Joker's card was absolutely fabulous.

[Alex]

There were some nice humorous moments, and tons of great action. And the end with the Joker's card was absolutely fabulous.
Audience cheered at that.
Discussion afterwards was "Do they follow up and redo the joker movie, or do we assume the micheal keaton movie was the follow up?"
Warner Brothers didn't hide the fact that this was intended to relaunch the franchise, so....

[Jonah Weiland]

Saw it tonight and was quite surprised by it at many points. This is a great movie. It's not perfect, but it's really quite great. My favorite moment had to be when Batman was questioning the Scarecrow after drugging him. That image of the Batface dripping and changing and morphing was just "wow."

This film almost set's up a new genre of super hero films. It's totally different than "Spider-Man II." It's far more "adult." And it's one of the smartest action films I've seen in a long time.

[Kevinroc]

A wonderful Batman movie. Batman as a character that the audience is supposed to cheer for. Not root against like in many of today's Batman comics. To the general public, the only DC character that people want to cheer for anywhere near as much as Batman is Superman.

I think the production team realized how successful the Spider-Man movies were in detailing Spidey's origin and decided to spend a lot of time focusing on Batman's own motivations for why he puts on the costume. I thought this was very effective.

The reveal that Liam Neeson was really Ra's was a pretty good plot twist.

[Samurai]

Excellent movie, 3.5 out of 4 stars. Great character development and acting all around. Superb casting choices... everyone fit their parts perfectly. Awesome Batmobile!

I went into this expecting not to like it all that much, but was very pleasantly surprised!

[Lord Darkwolf]

This movie revived my faith in the character of Batman .. Everything was perfect ... I LOVED Fox . One funny thing about watching the movie though was reconizinging parts of my city in it . ( Waker Drive , Chicago ) Made me blink and laugh saying So THAT's what they were doing .

[redlantern2051]

Just got back from it. ABSOLUTELY FABOLUS! I loved it so much, and my fave Bat villian, Ra's, was played to a tee by Liam Neeson. I wish they had a mention of the Lazarus Pits tho! Oh well, I think the way he died looked like he was not expecting death to be final. Gee I loved this movie. More reviews on my LJ below!

[Indigo Al]

Don't know how to add to the praise, except by pointing out how great Cillian Murphy was as the creepy psycho Scarecrow.The movie balanced a lot of great horror elements - the Scarecrow, Batman's attack on Falcone's goons, even young Bruce watching the opera...

Man, what a movie.

[UniqueFrequency]

this was REALLY a great movie. i was surprised to find it lasted about 2.5 hrs when it ended! i like the way we have multiple baddies (Ra's, Falcone and Scarecrow) instead of just one main guy (say, Doc Ock). Bale as Batman is great. he really brings him to life and the anger is great. great twist with Ra's/Ducard as well... and amazingly, the Scarecrow translated great on screen. (let's face it, he could've come off looking really pathetic)

[Cyke]

But Schindler was a good man!
And he didn't kick anyones ass.

Left-leaning Hollywood Bias!

Everyone knows that Oskar Schindler is a master of Ninja!!!

[Ramz]

anyone know what comic fox is in, or bruce training in the moutains? Or was that just in the movie?

[Patient Boy]

anyone know what comic fox is in, or bruce training in the moutains? Or was that just in the movie?

Lucius Fox has been in the comics and the B:TAS cartoons for quite awhile now (don't watch The Batman, don't know whether he's in it). Generally I believe it's taken that Lucius is in the dark with regards to Bruce Wayne's nocturnal activities.

Bruce Wayne travelling the world to train has always been part of the mythos, although training under the tutelage of Ra's Al Ghul is new. Ducard and Ra's are characters who have no direct connection in the comics, as far as I can remember.

[mattbib]

i like the way we have multiple baddies (Ra's, Falcone and Scarecrow) instead of just one main guy (say, Doc Ock).Great point, considering multiple bad guys were one of the weakest points of some of the earlier Batfilms. This movie showed you can successfully interweave multiple characters and plotlines without dragging down the story.

[Donald M.]

Great point, considering multiple bad guys were one of the weakest points of some of the earlier Batfilms. This movie showed you can successfully interweave multiple characters and plotlines without dragging down the story.

It helped a lot that the three main villains were connected in a way that made sense, as opposed to three bat-sequels where multiple villains were thrown together willy-nilly, witout rhyme or reason.

People have always listed the multiple villains as a reason the Bat-sequels failed, but I always felt multiple villains could be done right. I did feel that the Scarecrow was a bit underused, but he served his purpose in the story well.

Since it's clear that this is a new beginning for the Bat-Franchise and that villains featured in previous Bat-Flicks aren't off-limits for sequels, I spent the ride home after the flick mulling over an idea ivolving the Joker and (in a minor role) Hugo Strange that plays around with the Joker's origin in a way that's slightly more realistic that the old, accepted, acid bath story. I mean, given the relative realism of the "new" Batman, the idea of a chemical bath turning someone into a homicidal clown seems a bit much.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Well, it finally happened. After many long years and a decent crack at the title by Rami's Spider-Man films, Superman: The Movie has finally been dethroned as the best damn life-action superhero flick of all time...

Batman Begins. See it boys and girls and witness the new king.

And I'm a Superman fan, so don't think I take any pleasure in this, but even I gotta face facts. Bravo.

But it's saying a helluva lot that it took Hollywood more than twenty years to surpass what Richard Donner, Christopher Reeves and company accomplished all those years ago without any CGI or any of the special effects we take for granted now.

[Donald M.]

Well, it finally happened. After many long years and a decent crack at the title by Rami's Spider-Man films, Superman: The Movie has finally been dethroned as the best damn life-action superhero flick of all time...


Nope, sorry. Spider-Man 2 holds that title.

Batman's not even a superhero. As this film makes abundantly clear, he's a ninja with pointy ears and cool gadgets! :p

[GUYANATHUGG]

Solid movie, well worth the 10 bucks. Only thing that kinda irked me was that Christian Bale's "Batman" voice seemed too forced, but maybe I'm just used to hearing the oh so perfect animated Batman voice.

So many cheers at the end teaser. So many.

Excellent movie. I agree the voice did seem forced though.

[Nate Grey]

Just saw it. Wow. I thought it was PERFECT. I loved Burton's movie (the first one more than his second), but BB still blows it out the water. Wow. Just...wow.

[Ontir]

I've always held that Burton's Batman Returns was the best, mainly because it's the most complete Burton vision, but Batman Begins is now, IMO, the best super-hero film period!

[Bryan Rios]

Audience cheered at that.
Discussion afterwards was "Do they follow up and redo the joker movie, or do we assume the micheal keaton movie was the follow up?"
Warner Brothers didn't hide the fact that this was intended to relaunch the franchise, so....
I was the only person in the theater I was at that cheered during that. It ruled.

And I personally think that it'd be cool if the Joker was redone. Jack Nicholson was great and all, but I'd really like to see how it'd be done if it were made right now.

[ZombieHavoc]

My favorite aspect of the film was that it ended more like a comic book would end than a hollywood blockbuster. The problem was not entirely solved and the case closed and all the bad guys hauled off to jail. It was left open, like Scarecrow not being apprehended and so forth.

[Peter]

The reveal that Liam Neeson was really Ra's was a pretty good plot twist.

See now other posters said they guessed this part, but I agree, that plot-twist totally blew me away.

Although -- when the fake Ra's mentioned Gotham, in the back of my mind I knew he'd be returning at some point to take part in the story, but I still didn't see that part coming at all.

[Glaucon]

Well, I went into this movie with very low expectations, and I left with a sense of complete shock because of how good this movie truly was. When I heard Goyer was forced to do another love interest and when I say who (I thought) was playing Ra's Al Ghul, I was very discouraged. After seeing how well Goyer did the forced love interest and how well he switched Ra's on us, I can say without a doubt, that this is a great Batman movie.

I thought the casting was superb as well. Michael Caine, Liam Neeson, Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman, and Cillian Murphy were all perfect for their parts, which leaves Christian Bale, the best Batman ever. I thought his looks and acting captured both Bruce Wayne and Batman.

This is a great comic book movie and I can't say more good things about it. I can't wait to see the next films.

[cactusmaac]

I thought it was very good but not a great movie, definitely above the X-Men movies but a little behind Spider-Man 2.

For me it got a little bogged down by the origin sequence which isn't exactly new to me (had the same problem with Spider-Man 1) although the galloping pace of the movie once it hit Gotham more than made up for it.

Stuff I liked:

1) Bruce Wayne as a human being (not a cipher) and someone dedicated to justice but not a dick about it. All his interactions with Rachel, Alfred and Lucius felt warm and genuine unlike the comics where he has a rapport with Alfred but is more like a driven, emotionally stunted machine when it comes to Dick and Tim.

2) Batman as a terrifying, pants-wetting urban nightmare. The "I'm Batman" scene was just what the doctor ordered.

3) The focus on Thomas Wayne and the Wayne family's stewardship of Gotham over the centuries. I nearly cheered when they mentioned the Underground Railway bit. It does add a lot more to Bruce Wayne's motivations when his quest isn't just revenge on the criminal element but continuing a family legacy of doing their best for their home city.

4) The efficient and economical way all the villains and supporting characters were used. For a movie over two hours long, not a scene seemed padded and I didn't look at my watch once.

5) Liam Neeson as Ra's al Ghul. The two minutes he spent talking to Bruce in the mansion made me realise what a great screen villain he'd make. Seeing Qui Gon being so evil is just so wrong.

6) The way the costume is built up so all the elements make sense.

7) The Batmobile.

8) The action and the humour. All of it fitted and none of it felt gratuitous. I'm bemused Goyer could be responsible for both this and the uber-turd that was Blade Trinity.

9) The scene where nightmare Batman flies above the Narrows.

Stuff I didn't like:

1) Tom Wilkinson is not Carmine Falcone. He needed to be a regal crime-lord, not somebody who looked like they drove taxis on the night-shift.

2) The score was just really blah. Elfman's theme remains the definitive Batman music.

As a final comment, I was surprised by how much the movie stands as its' own entity. I was expecting a riff on Year One, but here you see the evidence of lots of Bat-writers work being mined from Finger, O'Neill, Wein, Engelhart, Loeb and a whole bunch of others.


Best Movies Seen This Year

1. Hero
2. Ong Bak
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. Batman Begins
5. Constantine

[Ian J.N.]

See now other posters said they guessed this part, but I agree, that plot-twist totally blew me away.

Although -- when the fake Ra's mentioned Gotham, in the back of my mind I knew he'd be returning at some point to take part in the story, but I still didn't see that part coming at all.
It's funny—they used my comicbook fanboyism against me. In the comics, Bruce Wayne did train under Ducard, so I didn't suspect that his identity would be otherwise. And of course, we all know about the Lazarus Pit. "Pfft. Of course Ra's isn't dead. He's been resurrected." Nope. They played me like a sucka, those Batman movie makers.

[ghostrider666]

Just saw Batman Begins. Best Bat-movie ever. By far.
Not perfect, but a very good movie. Agreat start to a new franchise.

[Spike-X]

I saw this last night and loved it. I didn't see the twist with Ducard being Ra's coming at all. Cirocco, who saw it with me, did, and she called me stupid. She's mean.

What other Batman movies?

[Hawk]

Best movie of the year
Period

Best comic book movie, also. I've seen it twice already, and I'm ready for a third go around.

Everyone was great, and blew even Burton's movies out of the water. I even liked Katie Holmes. I didn't think it was possible, but I did. Perfect cast, perfect direction, damn near perfect movie.

Although I also missed Elfman's score.

[moebius]

I was in Potsdamer Platz to see it Wednesday night, and I noticed a huge crowd mobbing the theater. Surely Batman isn´t this big in Germany? I made my way toward the front of the line.

Then I noticed the Batmobile, shooting flames.

Then I noticed Michael Caine a few feet away, signing autographs.

Then, with my detective skills on high alert, I looked up at the big screen and saw Christian Bale and Katie Holmes talking to interviewers.

Okay.

Anyway, the movie:

Short Verdict: Comes so close to being both the best Batman movie and the best comic book movie, but falls just short of both and ends up behind both Spider-Man 2 and Batman.

Long Verdicts:

The Really Good:

1. Christian Bale really nailed Bruce Wayne, in a way that only the Animated Series (and the writers influenced by it) has been able to do for me. The hotel scene captures Bruce Wayne better than anyone ever has.

2. Gary Oldman was the perfect Jim Gordon. I was absolutely stunned when I saw him with that mustache.

3. The interaction between Bruce and Alfred, and Bruce and Lucius Fox. Michael Caine plays Alfred to the T, as someone who is utterly loyal to the Wayne name, but also more than just a sidekick.

4. The death of Bruce´s parents. Briliantly done, and nearly a direct swipe from Year One (this is a good thing).

5. The training sequences. Especially the Ninja sequence toward the end. That´s really the only time we see Batman as Tactician as opposed to Batman as Vigilante.

6. Liam Neeson as a very effective Ra´s Al Ghul. Also I was completely surprised by the plot twist. My comicbook fanboy status betrayed me.

7. Batman as object of terror, both on the docks and in the Narrows. It really was effective. The way they had him coming out of the shadows was awesome.

8. Making Batman´s motivation not just revenge, but upholding the Wayne legacy of charity through personal sacrifice. The story moves effectively from one man´s quest for justice to a struggle for the soul of Gotham, and it´s really very effective.

The Not so Good:

1. Bale looks like Batman, and he sells the action better than Michael Keaton could. But he sounds wrong and his eyes were wrong. There´s something about the voice that seems forced rather than sinister, and Keaton was able to do a combination with the eyes and mouth that made Batman look like a total psychopath.

2. Must we be so casual with our secret identitdy, Master Bruce?

3. Did we really need a costumed villain to make this work? To me, the movie would have been just as compelling, and probably more organic, if the villains of the piece remained Carmine Falcone, Ra´s Al Ghul, and the corrupt members of the Wayne Enterprises board. I felt like they could have taken the Scarecrow out entirely (though Cillian Murphy played him well).

To build off that, I think more of a direct swipe of Year One was in order. A dual story with Gordon taking on corruption in the ranks in his own small way (like the baseball bat scene in YO), Bruce Wayne righting the ship that is Wayne Enterprises, and Batman rescuing Gotham from Falcone´s mobsters and Ghul´s ninja would have been a perfectly effective narrative. Batman as demon was great, but I felt like chemical weapons would have been more effective than "fear gas."

The beauty of YO was we sthe escalation in the war between heroes and villains in Gotham. By the end he´s a relatively competant hero, and organized crime is running scared, but now you have these crazies coming out of the woodwork. The Joker should be the first of the masked crazies to start running around (perhaps we even should have seen his origin in Batman Begins).

4. The action scenes really were poorly shot. The coreography was undoubtedly great, but it didn´t matter because it was all wasted by the close camera work. If Nolan had just pulled out to even a half body shot, I probably would put this movie above Batman. I watched the Chinese prison sequence and thought to myself "uh oh...Bourne Supremacy." "Batman" is a comic book. It´s fine that they pushed the characterization so heavily (a big improvement, really), but they forgot to give us compelling action.

5. Did we really need a big confrontation with the villain at the end? Would it have been just as effective if Ra´s Al Ghul escaped (to return in sequels?) and Batman took down some sort of "middle manager" ninja on that monorail?

6. Unlike Spider-Man 1 (which felt WAY too long), at 2 hours and 14 minutes Batman Begins actually felt RUSHED. The training scenes, flashbacks, and "building Batman" were all perfectly done. But then we´re into the main evil plot and it feels like they wrap it up in 15 minutes. Pushing it out to an even 2.5 hours was in order.

7. Falcone, not Falconee. I know the second might be correct, but it sounds silly rather than sinister.

[Donald M.]

3. Did we really need a costumed villain to make this work? To me, the movie would have been just as compelling, and probably more organic, if the villains of the piece remained Carmine Falcone, Ra´s Al Ghul, and the corrupt members of the Wayne Enterprises board. I felt like they could have taken the Scarecrow out entirely (though Cillian Murphy played him well).


To be fair, he was hardly a costumed villain in the sense of previous Bat-films. His only costume element was the mask, and that was part of his experiments to weaponize the psychadelic fear drug, turining himself into a sort of Jungian archetype of fear in the eyes of his victims. A far cry from the jokey villains of Batman & Robin, and I thought the sub-plot concerning Scarecrow and the fear gas was all used quite well, tying in with Batman's own exploitation of fear and superstition.

I will say this about Cillian Murpht though: that one scene in Arkham when Batman show up, the way he talks and handles himself in that scene had me thinking he'd make a great Joker. Indeed, when I saw that scene in the trailer ( "It's . . . the Batman!") I had no idea it was supposed to be Crane/Scarecrow and thought it was meant to be a glimpse at a pre-Joker Joker.

[Waffles]

I will say this about Cillian Murpht though: that one scene in Arkham when Batman show up, the way he talks and handles himself in that scene had me thinking he'd make a great Joker. Indeed, when I saw that scene in the trailer ( "It's . . . the Batman!") I had no idea it was supposed to be Crane/Scarecrow and thought it was meant to be a glimpse at a pre-Joker Joker.

That was my exact thought. An interesting scenerio (in my eyes atleast) would be to have Crane's unhinged madness, toward the end of Batman Begins, in combination with an accident involving chemicals, causes him to completly lose it and become the Joker. I realize this would cause an uproar, but it'd be interesting to explore. It's also the first thing I thought when I saw the scene in Arkham. And again when he went bonkers after having his own "medicaine" used against him (The horse scene in particular).

[cactusmaac]

The Not so Good:

1. Bale looks like Batman, and he sells the action better than Michael Keaton could. But he sounds wrong and his eyes were wrong. There´s something about the voice that seems forced rather than sinister, and Keaton was able to do a combination with the eyes and mouth that made Batman look like a total psychopath.

Agreed. Keaton's Batman did seem somewhat scarier both because of the performance and the fact the audience wasn't told much about the character.



3. Did we really need a costumed villain to make this work? To me, the movie would have been just as compelling, and probably more organic, if the villains of the piece remained Carmine Falcone, Ra´s Al Ghul, and the corrupt members of the Wayne Enterprises board. I felt like they could have taken the Scarecrow out entirely (though Cillian Murphy played him well).

It was appropriate. Batman mostly does fight costumed supervillains so introducing them in some fashion was necessary.


To build off that, I think more of a direct swipe of Year One was in order. A dual story with Gordon taking on corruption in the ranks in his own small way (like the baseball bat scene in YO), Bruce Wayne righting the ship that is Wayne Enterprises, and Batman rescuing Gotham from Falcone´s mobsters and Ghul´s ninja would have been a perfectly effective narrative. Batman as demon was great, but I felt like chemical weapons would have been more effective than "fear gas."

It would have meant devoting too much time to Gordon when the focus had to be on Batman's development. The movie did already feel rushed and didn't need the distraction of giving Gordon a bigger role.

The fear gas was in keeping with the movie's basic theme.


The Joker should be the first of the masked crazies to start running around (perhaps we even should have seen his origin in Batman Begins).

They probably aren't sure what direction they want to go in for the sequel, so painting themselves in the corner wasn't the right thing to do.


4. The action scenes really were poorly shot. The coreography was undoubtedly great, but it didn´t matter because it was all wasted by the close camera work. If Nolan had just pulled out to even a half body shot, I probably would put this movie above Batman. I watched the Chinese prison sequence and thought to myself "uh oh...Bourne Supremacy." "Batman" is a comic book. It´s fine that they pushed the characterization so heavily (a big improvement, really), but they forgot to give us compelling action.

The focus was on having fights that were realistic: up close, very fast-paced and brutal.


5. Did we really need a big confrontation with the villain at the end? Would it have been just as effective if Ra´s Al Ghul escaped (to return in sequels?) and Batman took down some sort of "middle manager" ninja on that monorail?

They needed some kind of closure. They might\might not want Ra's al Ghul back in the movies depending on where they go so having him still obviously be around would be an unnecessarily open plot thread.

[Jeff Brady]

but I felt like chemical weapons would have been more effective than "fear gas."

Um...the fear gas IS a chemical weapon. Remember all those people going insane, beating, killing & eating each other? "Crane took the hallucinogenic chemicals from that blue flower and weaponized it."

[moebius]

Um...the fear gas IS a chemical weapon. Remember all those people going insane, beating, killing & eating each other? "Crane took the hallucinogenic chemicals from that blue flower and weaponized it."

But on the scale of "deadly," a generic "chemical weapon" sounds deadly. "Fear gas" is decidedly Silver Age. Has anyone been out to the harbor to check on the fish? Are they laughing?

[Donald M.]

But on the scale of "deadly," a generic "chemical weapon" sounds deadly. "Fear gas" is decidedly Silver Age. Has anyone been out to the harbor to check on the fish? Are they laughing?

Sure, but it was never referred to in the film as "fear gas". Plus, if the only fantastic element is the guy in the bat suit, then the guy in the bat suit starts to look rather silly. You've gotta have at least some semblence of a costumed menace to justify the costumed hero.

[moebius]

The focus was on having fights that were realistic: up close, very fast-paced and brutal.

Agreed. But I don't feel like that's incompatible with the audience actually being able to take in the fight. For example: the first two fights in the "Bourne Identity" against the Swiss police and the American embassy guards. Both were close, fast-paced fights with one man against multiple opponents.

But you can really see where pulling the camera back pays off. You might not always be able to follow what Bourne is doing the first time around, but you feel like you're an omniscient observer and you can take in the entire fight.

In the BB fights the camera is zoomed so far in that I don't think even a slow-mo DVD viewing is going to add much. That sort of brutal up-closeness works in a comic, as you can always go back and take some time with the panels. But it is really distracting on film.

[BoosterBronze]

I think this movie was totally awesome in almost all regards; great acting, great story, awesome visuals, sweet car chase. But I would have liked to have seen some fighting. I got the IMPRESSION fights were happening, but I didn't actually see anything cool. I really didn't dig that.

[cactusmaac]

Agreed. But I don't feel like that's incompatible with the audience actually being able to take in the fight. For example: the first two fights in the "Bourne Identity" against the Swiss police and the American embassy guards. Both were close, fast-paced fights with one man against multiple opponents.

But you can really see where pulling the camera back pays off. You might not always be able to follow what Bourne is doing the first time around, but you feel like you're an omniscient observer and you can take in the entire fight.

In the BB fights the camera is zoomed so far in that I don't think even a slow-mo DVD viewing is going to add much. That sort of brutal up-closeness works in a comic, as you can always go back and take some time with the panels. But it is really distracting on film.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. They needed to pull the camera back.

I wasn't sure whether or not you liked Bourne Supremacy so didn't quote it as an example of what should have been done.

As for the fear gas, it is realistic enough given that the US Army have been experimenting with the use of such as part of their non-lethal weapons programs.

[jessecuster]

I absolutely loved this movie, I thought the blurred rushed fighting adds to the mystique of Batman. One thing I found interesting that seprates this movie from any of its brethren and keeps it more in line with what Marvel has been doing, is that these are personal stories, no longer is it some unknown person who becomes evil, with Ra's Al Ghul, its effectively "the devil you know'. This is in the same way as Green Goblin and Doc Ock in Spider-Man, and makes the stories better because you get personally invested in the characters.

[cactusmaac]

Nice tidbit from the IGN review of BB:


But the parallels are even stronger now considering several other summer films, namely War of the Worlds and Revenge of the Sith, are also inspired by the war on terror. I've noticed that in three particular summer releases – Kingdom of Heaven, Batman Begins, and Sith – the stories follow a young man who is driven by his own inner demons and personal tragedy to march off to war. In each film, the protagonist faces a moral choice where they can either fight for their own satisfaction (vengenace, anger, hate) or they can evolve and serve a more noble cause (fighting for the people, for an ideal greater than one's own self-interest). Two protagonists – Kingdom's Balian and Batman's Bruce Wayne – opt for the latter, while Anakin stays with the former motivation and is consumed and destroyed by it. Oh, and just to add to the juicy irony of it, all three protagonists were mentored by Liam Neeson! Food for thought.

[Nate Grey]

Was that little kid ever named? I was wondering if it was Tim or Jason.

[Nate Grey]

Also, its been bugging me trying to figure out where I had seen the actor who played Thomas Wayne before...so I went to imdb.com and figured it out. He's the Purifier from Chronicles of Riddick! I think his hair was bleached blonde in that one (been a while since I saw it), but that's him.

[monkeysweat]

Was that little kid ever named? I was wondering if it was Tim or Jason.
Never even considered that. It's possible. I wouldn't mind.

[The Mirrorball Man]

But Schindler was a good man!
And he didn't kick anyones ass.
Wait for the extended version. Bribing only goes so far before you've got to use kung fu. Especially against Nazis. Just ask Hellboy.

[Jared]

It's almost a shame this wasn't the first live-action Batman movie (not counting Adam West). If it had been, I think this would have been just as enthralling to me as seeing Spider-Man for the first time was. That said, I do think it's the best of the movies, though some elements of Burton's orginal are still superior, like the design of Gotham, the Batmobile, the music, and of course, Nicholson as the Joker.

I'd read enough of the previews that I knew this wasn't really an adaptation of the Year One comic, but I was pleasantly suprised at some of the things they did include. But some of the changes did dissapoint me. I realize that having the Gordon/Flass interactions of the comic would have taken up too much time, but I do think it'd have been cool to at least have Gordon portrayed as a real bad ass for once. But Gary Oldman was superb at playing the character as-written for this movie.

Liam Neeson, doing a villanous twist on his traveling swordsman/mentor routine, was great! While his motivation was different and he wasn't Arabic, he was a great rendition of the Ra'as of the cartoon, who I thought was the best villain on the show.

I love that there were at least semi-plausible explanations for all his amazing gear; the car, the suit, even the cape! Though they maybe overdid some of the scenes of him gliding with the cape, to the point that it seemed like he could fly, I think the director wanted to stear clear of Spidey-esqe images of Batman swinging on grapple lines.


I agree there was too much close-in and jumpy camera work, especially during the final fights with the ninjas and with Ra'As. But the fight scenes were still better than the other movies, thanks in large part to Bale, and the lighter-weight suit the filmakers used this time around.

Not sure I like the Batmobile turbo-boosting from rooftop to rooftop. I kept thinking of Knightrider, and of Batman Forever where it drives up a wall. Though at least the effects looked really good there.

Katie Holmes looked stunning as usual, but I never bought her as a District Attorney. A law student, sure.

Favorite line: tossup between "does it come in black?" and "I'm not going to kill you. But I don't have to save you." The latter may upset comic purists, but the audience I was with sure dug it.

I agree that Falcone's name should *not* have been pronounced with that extra 'e' sound at the end, linguistic accuracy be named. And he did look like a cab driver. For that matter, in the animated series, did they say Ra'as like "Raashe"?

Nitpick: why didn't the microwave generator boil the people standing next to it?

[cactusmaac]

They said Rayshe in the animated series but the movie goes by how Denny O'Neill says it should be pronounced.

As for the water I suppose the explanation is that it only works on water that's free around it, not enclosed in a human body.

[The Mirrorball Man]

As for the water I suppose the explanation is that it only works on water that's free around it, not enclosed in a human body.
And what if you gotta pee?

[cactusmaac]

Goodby pee-pee.

[Gaz]

Can't say much that anyone hasn't already, but the fake-out with Watanabe got me.
And the Bat-voice worried me until he questioned Flass. When he screamed "SWEAR TO ME!" I shrank back. That's the first time outside the comics that I've gotten why Batman's scary.
The urban legend was also built well. "Where are you?!!!" "Can he really fly?" "I heard he can disappear!"

[StrawNilla]

I just saw the film yesterday.

There was a time when I thought the franchise couldn't get better than Burton's first Batman, now, I KNOW it can. I'd put Batman Begins right up there beside Spider-Man 2 as my favorite comic book movie. Excellent work.

[smartalek]

I posted this in the other Batman thread, but I'll give my opinion here as well. I thought that Bale gave a real sense of vunerability to Bruce Wayne, which made people want to cheer for him.
spoilers
When Ra's shows up at his house, you see the look of shock on his face when he hears the name. Since these badguys went through similiar training to Batman, you feel Wayne is vunerable when they surround him in his house. You never got the feeling that he could walk over all of them.

[Dennis K]

Best Batman movie of the bunch, hands down. The trailers over-emphasized one of the villains, which was a nice twist, and the set-up for the sequel and it's villain was nicely handled as well. 4.5 stars out of 5.

[Dreadstar]

Loved it. I voted for the first Batman Movie, but after a second viewing I think I may have erred. Bale sells the character so well.

As to the fight sequences being muddled and could have benefitted from a wider camera shot, I would agree EXCEPT for the first multiple action fight on the docks. See, we were seeing that fight from the perspective of the bad guys. Particularly from the perspective of Falcone. The fact that he's watching a huge group of his boys get their butts handed to them by this dark, non-descript... thing... is the whole point of the scene. You weren't supposed to see a high-tech ninja breaking arms and generally kicking ass, that would have humanized the figure. You were supposed to see nothing. Just a malevolent whirlwind in the midst of chaos, a supernatural elemental force, insipiring fear if not outright awe.

However, the later scene where he takes on a half-dozen of the League most certainly would have benefitted from the same kind of scene in the Bourne Identity, no doubt. And from previous viewing of Christian Bale in similar roles, he has the chops to pull that off, easily.

[Puffy Treat]

Cillian Murphy: The first live action "mad" bat-villain who actually was as scary and disturbing as the film made him out to be.

Wonderful performance.

[kmeyers]

Was that little kid ever named? I was wondering if it was Tim or Jason.
That would be awesome...I can't remember if his parents yelled his name or not...I know they yell at him to come back inside...

[kmeyers]

oh.I loved it...and agree with most of thje stuff everyone else mentioned.

but, isn't it pronounced RAISH, not Ras in the cartoon?

[UniqueFrequency]

Cillian Murphy: The first live action "mad" bat-villain who actually was as scary and disturbing as the film made him out to be.

Wonderful performance.

i agree. i never thought the Scarecrow could look good as a live action bat-rogue, but Cilliam Murphy is FANTASTIC. his "it's.... the batman" scene is just awesome.

i was pretty confused about the Rahs/Rays pronunciation too... especially when i told a non-comic fan that the main villian is a dude called "Rays"

[Cyke]

oh.I loved it...and agree with most of thje stuff everyone else mentioned.

but, isn't it pronounced RAISH, not Ras in the cartoon?

But as an earlier post pointed out, the way that his name is pronounced in the movie is the way that Danny O'Neill (creator of Rha's Al Ghoul) had always intended it to be.

[Guts/Batman]

Saw it Thrusday night:

Things I liked:

1. A good thorough explanation of Batman's fighting abilites.
2. Detailing of the truly dark character that is Bruce Wayne.
3. Alfred as one of the guiding forces to pulling Bruce Wayne back.
4. The scene where Batman sparys crane with his own fear toxin. Bad Ass.
5. Liam Neesen (sp?) was awesome IMO. Perfect teacher who recognizes when his wayward student will not return to his side.
6. The new Batmobile...ahhhh yesssssss

tons more

Things that confused me.

1. Ra's AlGhul dying. Did he actually die. Cuz I wasn't expecting that. Cuz when someone was introduced as at Bruce's B-Day party as Ra's Al Ghul. It seems as it may be a title.

[Chuckg]

Naaah, Liam Neeson was Ra's al Ghul all along. 'Ducard' was merely an alias, and Ken Watanabe's character was merely a tactical decoy.

That's actually a very ninja thing to do -- dress somebody else up as the clan head and make him sit in the big chair and have everybody bow to him, while the real guy in charge just hides in plain sight. Makes it a lot harder to assassinate your chain of command, as, they get the wrong one.

[Guts/Batman]

Naaah, Liam Neeson was Ra's al Ghul all along. 'Ducard' was merely an alias, and Ken Watanabe's character was merely a tactical decoy.

That's actually a very ninja thing to do -- dress somebody else up as the clan head and make him sit in the big chair and have everybody bow to him, while the real guy in charge just hides in plain sight. Makes it a lot harder to assassinate your chain of command, as, they get the wrong one.


Ahhhhhhhhhhhh...... Damn, fooled me.

"You destroyed my home. I'm just repaying the favor. Now we are even."

Should have ogtten it from that.

[kmeyers]

But as an earlier post pointed out, the way that his name is pronounced in the movie is the way that Danny O'Neill (creator of Rha's Al Ghoul) had always intended it to be.
must have missed it.

I was just curious. I had always heard, and read, RAISH....and I don't know if I'm biased or not, but I just think "Raish" sounds more threatening for some reason.

[Guts/Batman]

must have missed it.

I was just curious. I had always heard, and read, RAISH....and I don't know if I'm biased or not, but I just think "Raish" sounds more threatening for some reason.

Almost everything about B:TAS sounds more threatening than a Batman flick could ever sound.

Well maybe that line Nicholson said to Young Bruce after he killed his arents. The Pale Moon thing. As good as Nicholson played the Joker, he cannot equal the Mark Hamill.

[mattbib]

That would be awesome...I can't remember if his parents yelled his name or not...I know they yell at him to come back inside...I checked IMDB and there's nobody listed as Dick, Jason, or Tim. Just "little boy."

[mattbib]

Things that confused me.

1. Ra's AlGhul dying. Did he actually die. Cuz I wasn't expecting that. Cuz when someone was introduced as at Bruce's B-Day party as Ra's Al Ghul. It seems as it may be a title.I don't see how it was confusing, as much as unanswered. Clearly we're supposed to assume he died, but the whole point is that we don't know for sure.

[Guts/Batman]

I don't see how it was confusing, as much as unanswered. Clearly we're supposed to assume he died, but the whole point is that we don't know for sure.

Someone said that Liam Neelson's character was Ra's. Sounds good in theory but still dunno...

[Jeff Brady]

Liam is Ra's. Watanabe (sp?) is pretty much Ubu. Even when as Ducard, explaining to Bruce why he sought justice...how hos wife was taken from him, that matches up with Birth of a Demon.

Oh, for anyone who wasn't sure, Ducard IS in the comics. He's a bounty hunter/detective type of guy that Bruce studied from.

[tangentman]

How many people were actually fooled by the faux-Ra's? I figured out the diversion gimmick in the first scene with both Neeson and Watanabe.

Now, what I want to know is which Barbara Gordon did we see in the scene at Gordon's home--his wife or his niece/daughter, both named Barbara?

[Guts/Batman]

I'll have to admit I was fooled completely.

[mattbib]

Someone said that Liam Neelson's character was Ra's. Sounds good in theory but still dunno...Liam WAS Ra's. His character said so in the film. Liam seemed to have died in the monorail crash. But no dead body was seen so who knows. Therefore unanswered.

[Puffy Treat]

I checked IMDB and there's nobody listed as Dick, Jason, or Tim. Just "little boy."


B-but! It's a little boy and Batman! The kid _has_ to be Robin, just like that blonde chick in Spider-Man II _has_ to be Gwen Stacy!

Kidding, kidding. :D

[Puffy Treat]

Liam WAS Ra's. His character said so in the film. Liam seemed to have died in the monorail crash. But no dead body was seen so who knows. Therefore unanswered.


If the Lazarus Pit exists in the film reality, and other members of the League of Shadows were keeping tabs on him...then bringing him back would be fairly easy.

If. It might be deemed too fantastical for this version of Batman.

[mattbib]

How many people were actually fooled by the faux-Ra's? I figured out the diversion gimmick in the first scene with both Neeson and Watanabe.

Now, what I want to know is which Barbara Gordon did we see in the scene at Gordon's home--his wife or his niece/daughter, both named Barbara?Having never really read Batman comics I'm completely unfamiliar with Ra's so I was completely fooled. I had to reason to believe otherwise.

As for Barbara, Ilyssa Fradin is credited with playing her. She's only been in like three movies/shows so I just assumed she played the younger Barbara.

[Guts/Batman]

Liam WAS Ra's. His character said so in the film. Liam seemed to have died in the monorail crash. But no dead body was seen so who knows. Therefore unanswered.


I wasn't sure what you meant by unanswered.

I'm an idiot, next time I see it (and it will be soon) I'll have to be more aware.

[mattbib]

...just like that blonde chick in Spider-Man II _has_ to be Gwen Stacy!B-but! Her character's name was URSULA!

[mattbib]

If the Lazarus Pit exists in the film reality, and other members of the League of Shadows were keeping tabs on him...then bringing him back would be fairly easy.Well, Liam did suggest that there might be supernatural forces at play, so I have no problem with the possibility of the Lazarus Pit accounting for his possible survival.

[kmeyers]

Well, Liam did suggest that there might be supernatural forces at play, so I have no problem with the possibility of the Lazarus Pit accounting for his possible survival.

well...that's kind of the only way I saw a return of Ra's, his henchmen collecting his remains, and tossong it in the Lazarus Pit...

they made it pretty clear that the train exploded REAL good. it wasn't just smashed to pieces...it blew up. he's dead. but he'll be back.

[Puffy Treat]

B-but! Her character's name was URSULA!


Did you read the part of the post where I said I was kidding? :)

Back when the S-M 2 film was out, even with the character's name being given as "Ursula", there were more than a few fans arguing that she _had_ to be "The Movieverse Gwen" because she had blonde hair and seemed attracted to Peter.

I'm equating the notion that a kid Batman saves who seems to like Batman is either Jason Todd or Tim Drake with that.

[mattbib]

Did you read the part of the post where I said I was kidding? :)

Back when the S-M 2 film was out, even with the character's name being given as "Ursula", there were more than a few fans arguing that she _had_ to be "The Movieverse Gwen" because she had blonde hair and seemed attracted to Peter.

I'm equating the notion that a kid Batman saves who seems to like Batman is either Jason Todd or Tim Drake with that.Yes, duh, I was joking back. I get it. But I'll make fun of those fans who actually think that was Gwen. :)

[Spike-X]

Back when the S-M 2 film was out, even with the character's name being given as "Ursula", there were more than a few fans arguing that she _had_ to be "The Movieverse Gwen" because she had blonde hair and seemed attracted to Peter.

They must have missed the part where her father was totally not a cop.

[hugh45]

I guess you guys are convincing me to see the movie afterall.I admit
that I wasn't enthusiast in seeing another origin Batman movie and I
know it was based on Batman: Year One and faithful to it also,but
I was going to wait for vol.II,part II,but now you guys convince me,
thanks. :D

Not bad so far,the best comics so far seems to be:
Spidey I/II
Batman '89
Batman Begins
Sincity

Let's hope comic movies continue to get better and better.

[1HELLBOY]

I could have swore that his name was pronounced Razz Al Ghul. With a long a. Like Rat but with a long z sound at the end.

I've posted on so many forums I belong to that I'm almost tired of telling everbody how much I loved this movie lol. This movie is the best comic book movie of all time. And now my favorite MOVIE of all time. This movie left all other movies in the dust. Just a badass movie.

I knew that Ducard was Ra's the first time I saw Liam in the movie. He just LOOKED like Ra's. So I saw the plot-twist coming. Still enjoyed it.

All the acting was absolutely perfect. Better than a lot of movies out there. Bale was perfect as Wayne/Batman. Caine was damn spot-on as Alfred. Freeman played a perfect part in Fox. Murphey as Scarecrow is now one of my favorite Batman movie villains. Same with Liam/Al Ghul. Holmes was pretty good for her role. She came across as a bitch to me actually. Tell me that you wouldn't have tried to do the same thing Bruce did when his parents were murdered and the killer was cuaght. I would have.

The fight scenes were filmed that way on purpose and they were PERFECT for the movie and the character. Batman is supposed to be a mysterious ninja fighter. He's a simplistic fighter in a sense as well. If there's an easy way to take out a thug than he's gonna take it. He's not gonna do a somersault with a triple twist becuase it looks good. The fight scenes are to make you think that he's a primal force, some kind of thing attacking thugs.Going in, taking them out, then dissappearing in a flash. The interrogation scene with Flass nearly made me piss my pants. THAT is how Batman is supposed to be. Cold, ruthless, down right damn freaking scary to all lowly thugs and villains and criminals. Scarecrow was a very well thought out villain. His mask made perfect sense. He had to have something to protect him from his OWN fear gas lol. There was obviously a gas mask built it. Partly for theatrical effect, partly for protection. The Bat-Demon made me cringe a bit. That thing was goddamn scary. All the oozing and...*shudders*

This movie was perfect in ever single way. Although I do have one complaint: IT WAS TOO DAMN SHORT!! :p

I came into this movie with very high expectations. It succeded and went well over them. I'll be seeing it again many, many times more.

I give this movie a: 100/10 for the best movie of all time. :D :D :D

[UniqueFrequency]

Someone said that Liam Neelson's character was Ra's. Sounds good in theory but still dunno...

it was revealed in the movie, there's no 'in theory' thing about Liam Neeson's character..

[Neil]

I could have swore that his name was pronounced Razz Al Ghul. With a long a. Like Rat but with a long z sound at the end.
On the Batman animated series they say "Raish" or "Raijh", I'm not sure which. I've always assumed because of Denny O'Neil's involvement, that must be correct. I can't say I've ever heard anyone say "Razz" before. I'd be curious what it really should be in Arabic or pigeon Arabic or whatever.

[cactusmaac]

However, the later scene where he takes on a half-dozen of the League most certainly would have benefitted from the same kind of scene in the Bourne Identity, no doubt. And from previous viewing of Christian Bale in similar roles, he has the chops to pull that off, easily.

Yeah, in the commentary to Equilibrium, the director was talking about an action sequence and was in awe at how Bale managed to do the entire scene from learning all the moves required to shooting the final version in a flat half-an-hour.

It would be awesome seeing him go up against Matt Damon in a Bourne sequel.

[Captain_Video]

Batman Begins.

The Script.

I really enjoyed the heck out of this one, the most important thing of all though in my enjoyment of this film was that it had a pretty damn strong script, the most important thing for any movie to have "if it aint on the page it aint on the stage", the Batman Begins script besides being a supehero romp is dealing with the notion of fear and near enough every scene reflects this core theme, Goyer is certainly improved leaps and bounds since his early horror efforts.

The Performances.

For once we get honest, proper actors in the roles, almost from top to bottom of the film the talent was top notch, it would be redundant to go into each one so the most important one should be adressed.

Christian Bale, this guy was THE fanboy favourite myself included for the role of Bruce Wayne/Batman and I think he does an admirable job, however, as so many have reiterated the voice just isnt there for most of the movie, though the interrogation scene is without a doubt the best Batman scene ever adapated into a moving medium ( including the animated series ), the most important thing aside from nitpicks however is that Bale makes this Batman character real to the viewer, he does seem like a real person, if a slightly amped up comic book real.

The Editing.

This is a sore spot, im torn between wanting to see big Batman ninja action, like Bale executed in Equilibrium and the notion that we like the criminals should not really see what Batman does and just imagine it, its a problem really as we are so used to big comic book martial arts battles from the original books, one thing I will say, is in showing a chereographed fight to its full extent you would get a better sense of conflict.

I think an unsung hero of this movie is the D.P Wally Pfister, I think he had a really restrained eye on this thing and managed to shoot a Gotham that while realistic reminded me somehow of the stylised Detroit of the Robocop movies.

Overall I think the movie is a great achievement and proof that a sobre comic book adaptation is more than possible and in cases where appropriate should be demanded, but I still dont know how it ranks against the bubblegum goth/manic movie that Tim Burton made years earlier, but then im indescisive.

Brilliant Stuff.

[Arune Singh]

For the fanboys, Ducard, when revealing himself as R'as, does say, "R'as Al Ghul is immortal," which I believe lends credence to the Lazarus pit theory.

Also, I thought Rachel was an indispensible part of the movie and loved the mature way her & Bruce dealt with their feelings at the end. She'll probably get shuffled away for Harvey Dent, but I'd like to see her character return.

[spoon_jenkins]

I guess I'm going to be the malcontent here, because I didn't enjoy it as much as most everyone here did. (I was also in the small CBR faction that didn't think Spider-Man 2 was a stunning masterpiece.) I think I like both of the Burton films more, but time may be distorting things since I haven't seen them in years.

1. Gary Oldman was good as Jim Gordon. I'm glad they made him a more central figure. I still think there's room for improvement. Even though Batman is a badass and Gordon's just a good cop, they interact like equals and good friends and I didn't get that completely 100% here (Gordon did a lot following Batman's orders). Maybe the relationship will develop more in later films. So even though I think Gordon was generally done well, I'm saying that even an element I liked fell short of "perfect."

2. I understand that super close-ups for fights were supposed to simulate the confusion of a fight particularly when someone like Batman sneaks up on you, and it's a laudable ground. However, I think there's a middle ground in which some of the fighting can be shown more clearly, so viewers can marvel at it.

3. All grapple gun bungee-cord type action made Batman seemed like too much of a one trick pony to me. In the first Burton film, I felt I never knew what Batman would do next. In BB, he went to the same tactic repeatedly.

4. Christian Bale tackled his dual role well, and did the Bruce Wayne elements extremely well. I wish they would have skipped the ultra-gravelly Batman voice because it seemed affected and usually more corny than intimidating.

5. Some of the moral/message type stuff fell flat for me because I hate when it comes across heavy-handed and unnatural (as has happened to often in comic book films). Thomas Wayne was too much of stock character paragon of virtues spouting pearls of wisdom left and right than a real flesh-and-blood character I cared about.

6. Although it was an important element, I wish ninjas/ninjitsu was emphasized less. It's like a twisted game or rock/paper/scissors where ninjitsu beats everything! Partly I mind this because emphasizing "Batman as ninja" seems to detract from showing things like "Batman as detective" which I like. Partly it bugs me because it seems to result in a one-note feeling; there are a lot of dangerous things in this world, but ninjitsu is the key.

7. On a related note, I wish the Scarecrow hadn't gotten short shrift in his villainous identity. I wish he would've kicked more ass, but, you know, he's not a ninja. Why just make him a lackey? I think Batman's villains got a lot of emphasis in previous films because they're so intriguing.

8. I'm not as high on this film's realism as some reviewers. I guess it depends on what you can suspend disbelief about. A lot of elements from BB were realistically dealt with, and that's kind of cool. I don't necessarily feel, though, that the Gotham City of BB with its super-elevated train was more realistic than the Gotham of the first Burton film. And some degrees of over-the-top super-villain behavior and "comic book science" are more believable than the "comic book history" of the League of Shadows being responsible for the Black Plague.

Might post more specifics later...

[Ramz]

I actually liked the batman voice. seemed super angry, and intimidating.

[Ramz]

For the fanboys, Ducard, when revealing himself as R'as, does say, "R'as Al Ghul is immortal," which I believe lends credence to the Lazarus pit theory.
As I said previous in the thread, that could also mean that the Ra's name is actually passed down. So maybe he wasnt Ra's until Ra's died?

It would keep up the immortal part, for sure, albeit less supernatural.

[Voncaster]

I have mixed feelings about BB. As there seems to be a lot of praise, I will point out some of the problems I had with the movie. If I were rating it, I'd give it 3-3.5 out 5. It was good, but it wasn't earth shattering.

*SPOILERS AHEAD*
I guess my biggest gripe was with the bad guys plot to bring down Gotham. For those of you who complained that the older movies had rediculous plots, I don't see how this movie improved things. The bad guys as I understand it used Crane's fear toxin (disguised as street drugs) through gotham's water line. The only catch being his toxin doesn't work in water it works by being absorbed into people's lungs through the air. So the League of Shadow's then steal some secret microwave gun which they use to evaporate the fear toxin from the ground into the air. At which point Gotham's citizens turn into raving lunatics and kill each other. Honestly, thats about the stupidest plot I can think of.

If we want a realistic plot, why doesn't the League of Shadows steal a nuke or rent a cropduster and drop their fear powder? Or why don't they give Crane some R&D time to develop a toxin that can work in water? I don't care if you like BB better, than the old Batman films. But please don't pretend that the ludacris plot of this movie was any more realistic than previous installments. For my own two cents when the fear toxin was leaked into a small part of Gotham, the movie quickly tranisitioned from okay to B-movie cheese.

It wasn't all bad, I thought the start of the movie was very good. I liked Crane a lot, and I looked forward to each and every one of his appearances. I almost wish Crane was the main villian of the film to give him some more screen time. I also like how Goyer and Nolan dropped in a lot of characters for us comic fans (Joe Chill, Flass, Carmine Falcone, ect).

[Absalom]

Since everything relevant about this movie-masterpiece have already been said by other fellow posters, I'd just like to point it out:

Bruce's "y'all can kiss my @$$ and get the f#&k outta my house" speech to the guests of his birthday party has gotta be one of the most hilarious scenes ever to be captured on-screen.

No wonder everyone readily bought that excuse he was so drunk he burned his own house.

[Tommy]

I just wish that the villians got a little more developement. I thought the movie would have been a little better if they cut out Ras Al Goul and instead just had the Scarecrow, or set up Ras for a sequal.

P.S. The Scarecrow was so frickin' HOT!

[Gaz]

I just wish that the villians got a little more developement. I thought the movie would have been a little better if they cut out Ras Al Goul and instead just had the Scarecrow, or set up Ras for a sequal.

P.S. The Scarecrow was so frickin' HOT!
I would've liked the Selina/Holly scene from Y1, or even a namecheck of her at the party, but you can't have everything.
And I think Murphy's pretty boy-ness worked in his favour here, as a contrast to the mask.

[Tommy]

And I think Murphy's pretty boy-ness worked in his favour here, as a contrast to the mask.
I wanted to make out with him. Even if he was evil.

[Gaz]

I wanted to make out with him. Even if he was evil.
"Even"? Admit it, it was BECAUSE he was evil, wasn't it? ;)

[Tommy]

"Even"? Admit it, it was BECAUSE he was evil, wasn't it? ;)
Just becouse I keep wanting to make out with verious neferious people does not mean I have some sort of psycological complex. I certainly am not turning into Harly Quinn if that is what you are asking.

[Gaz]

Just becouse I keep wanting to make out with verious neferious people does not mean I have some sort of psycological complex. I certainly am not turning into Harly Quinn if that is what you are asking.
On a related note, I have a similar thing for Harley... ;)

[ChaosBurnFlame]

Two moments in particular that I really loved --

1. They included freaking Mr Zsasz.

2. We actually see Batman putting his stuff together and designing his car and forging the Batarangs. *That* personally was a great scene.


ACTUALLY he was just 'dremmeling' steel blanks into the shape of a batarang.....

neverthemind they shouldn't be balanced enough to throw.... or the tips would be as strong as if they were forged....

but eh, it was so minor, I won't nitpick....

[Apathy Boy]

I had impossibly high expectations for this film. And the finished product exceeded them in every way.

I actually liked the batman voice. seemed super angry, and intimidating.Yeah, the Batman voice grew on me too. That scene where Batman was yelling at Flass was just plain freaky.

[MrHymes01]

all i have to say is...

FINALLY.

[Smell]

I loved this Batman begins - after such a long wait it felt good to have the films revitilasied.

i loved the nods to Knightfall (the asylum breakout) and No mans land (raising the bridges)

as with some of the above I had some nit picks, the threat to the city was a bit naff, Gordon was a bit tame, some bad edits in the film (the court scene with Joe Chill, sitting/standing from cut to cut). My largest nit pick was the orientation of Gotham, but in the maps that came with NML all the bridges are on the west of the island, I know there were no compass directions, but in the large shot of the island, all the bridges where on the right hand side (and hence the east in film logic).

I don't think I want to see a Robin film, my vote goes for Cataclysim/No Mans Land as the next flick.

Dom

smells of guano

[ChaosBurnFlame]

I loved how they created the Black Dawn from Year One.

[Gaz]

I loved this Batman begins - after such a long wait it felt good to have the films revitilasied.

i loved the nods to Knightfall (the asylum breakout) and No mans land (raising the bridges)

as with some of the above I had some nit picks, the threat to the city was a bit naff, Gordon was a bit tame, some bad edits in the film (the court scene with Joe Chill, sitting/standing from cut to cut). My largest nit pick was the orientation of Gotham, but in the maps that came with NML all the bridges are on the west of the island, I know there were no compass directions, but in the large shot of the island, all the bridges where on the right hand side (and hence the east in film logic).

I don't think I want to see a Robin film, my vote goes for Cataclysim/No Mans Land as the next flick.

Dom

smells of guano

I don't really mind what the plot is, I just want some more little nods, like namechecking Selina Kyle or Renee Montoya.

[Deathstroke]

I saw the movie tonight, and I have to say it's easily the best Batman film ever.

They finally got it right!

A couple of minor nitpicks only allow for me to give the movie a Straight A, but I'm considering going to see the movie again, and I don't do that very often.

[Guts/Batman]

I don't really mind what the plot is, I just want some more little nods, like namechecking Selina Kyle or Renee Montoya.


I agree.

I wouldn't mind Cataclysm/NML but seems odd to me. But a major gang war would be cool.

I hope that they do Knightfall for #3 though. That would totally kickass.

[hugh45]

So, was all the fight scenes hard to follow.If so,what was worst,the DD
poolhall fight or the Batman ones?

[Guts/Batman]

So, was all the fight scenes hard to follow.If so,what was worst,the DD
poolhall fight or the Batman ones?


I didn't find them hard to follow.

Then again , that might have been the director's intent, because alot of the thugs and other guys found it hard to follow. Maybe the director was trying to make you feel like you was one of the thugs.

[The Mirrorball Man]

The confusing point of view / shaky camera / lots of close-ups / frantic editing style has been the industry's standard way of filming fight scenes for the last couple of years. It started with Gladiator, and continued with The Lord of the Rings, Troy, The Bourne Identity/Supremacy, and now Batman Begins. It's just what directors like these days. Ten years ago, it was all wire-fu, and in ten years, it will be something else.

[kmeyers]

saw it again, and it makes the beginning even better, knowing that Neeson is really Ra's.

even better the second time around.

I just wish that little boy was named Dick, Jason, or Tim...but he's only credited as "little boy."

I actually only would want robin in the movie like that, as just a throwaway nod to the character. I don't think Robin will ever work in a Batman movie. Especially such a dark Batman movie.

[Kirayoshi]

Coolness all around. Someone finally did a Batman movie in which the focus was on BATMAN, and not the villains! Huzzah!

A few random thoughts;

I loved how Bruce was reminded in several instances of his family's legacy for charity and justice; his father nearly going broke helping pull Gotham through the Great Depression, his great-grandfather helping transport escaped slaves through the underground railroad. His family had more or less built or sustained Gotham, and now it's his turn. Loved how that was hammered home.

"Why do we fall? So we can learn to get back up." Not quite the same ring as "With great power comes great responsibility", but it works for me.

If I hadn't known going in that Gary Oldman was Jim Gordon, I'd have thought it was someone else. I was half expecting Gordon to have a dour British accent, or his face to be worn and drooping like Snape or the Metatron, but damned if he didn't completely inhabit the role!

Oh, and anyone catch the Serenity trailer before the movie? Oh man that movie's gonna rock most mightily! Dunno about The Island though. First thing that went through my mind was, "RUN, LOGAN!"

And between Sky High and Dukes of Hazard, is it me or is Lynda Carter making a comeback?

[Guts/Batman]

Oh, nearly forgot another thing I loved about this movie is no Batcave.

[kmeyers]

Oh, nearly forgot another thing I loved about this movie is no Batcave.

...uh....what???

[Guts/Batman]

...uh....what???


I liked that there was no Batcave. There was simply a cave. Nothing special about it. Just that it was a cave. No high tech stuff yet. Just a cave.

[hugh45]

Oh, and anyone catch the Serenity trailer before the movie? Oh man that movie's gonna rock most mightily! Dunno about The Island though. First thing that went through my mind was, "RUN, LOGAN!"


That's the 1st thing I thought of also (by the way it's Logan's Run).

[Spike-X]

Oh, and anyone catch the Serenity trailer before the movie? Oh man that movie's gonna rock most mightily! Dunno about The Island though. First thing that went through my mind was, "RUN, LOGAN!"

Yeah, same here. It looks okay, though. Might go see it if I've got some spare cash on a Sunday afternoon.

And between Sky High and Dukes of Hazard, is it me or is Lynda Carter making a comeback?

We can only hope. That smile... *sigh*

Speaking of Dukes...is it wrong that I'm looking forward to that more than F4?

[Grant]

That's the 1st thing I thought of also (by the way it's Logan's Run).

I think he was actually meant to say "Run, Logan!" not the title of the movie.

[kmeyers]

I liked that there was no Batcave. There was simply a cave. Nothing special about it. Just that it was a cave. No high tech stuff yet. Just a cave.

but...it IS the Batcave. and theyre going to build it into the hi-tech Batcave. But, I do agree that I like the way he discovered it, and it's "origin" Batman is just starting out here.

it is a cave. with a massive concentration of bats. = batcave.

[The Joker]

Definately the greatest live action Batman movie EVER!

The entire cast was superb (Holmes was atleast tolarable). And Murphy's Scarecrow was just top notch. Never imagined that character being imagined so realistically, and even better than I was expecting. But Murphy pulled it off.

Easily a 4 star movie, with an awesome 4 star cast.

[Adam West]

Saw it last night on midnite showing..

At last.. after waiting for years.. they finally got it right. Mr Nolan, Mr Goyer, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. This IS how a Batman movie supposed to be made. The story, the actors, all did a great job. Much being said about the actors, but I feel the story is what they got it right at best. Jim Gordon in the comic I feel is one of the most interesting character in Batman universe, and I'm really happy they made him as Batman 'partner' on his war on crime. Not some bozo who just hand everything to Batman like in the previous movies.

There's so much fun moments in the movie, the fanboy in me screams happily when Batman says "Back up" :D. The Batmobile chase, Bruce interaction with Alfred, the fight in the monorail train.

If I can have one minor quibbles about it, it's Bale's mouth when he put on the costume. Sometimes it seems like he try too hard to make it look menacing. But I must say, that the one time he got it right, when he questioned Flass, he looked frightening..

I'm looking forward to see it again next week :D.

[Gaz]

saw it again, and it makes the beginning even better, knowing that Neeson is really Ra's.

even better the second time around.

I just wish that little boy was named Dick, Jason, or Tim...but he's only credited as "little boy."

I actually only would want robin in the movie like that, as just a throwaway nod to the character. I don't think Robin will ever work in a Batman movie. Especially such a dark Batman movie.
I didn't get the double meaning of "theatricality and deception" until much later! "Duh, because he's using a stereotypical wise master guy as a decoy!" :D

[Kirayoshi]

We can only hope. That smile... *sigh*
Agreed, mi amigo. And Joss Whedon, once he starts work on his Wonder Woman project, would be a fool not to cast Lynda Carter as Diana's mother Hippolyta.

[ElectraAlan]

Wow. Well, there were a few times at the end when I wished things would move along, but all in all that was pretty incredible. I think that maybe there are not great Batman movies so much as great Batman moments, and one that I will remember forever and that I've wished for for a long time was Batman finally being allowed to get ANGRY. That scene with the bad cop, Batman really going over the top, and it must've been with the addition of some special sound effects, but he really seemed not human. "DO I LOOK LIKE A COP TO YOU?" Wow.

And they had the guts to include all that "Razor's Edge" stuff, so that the first half of the movie didn't even have Batman in it. And it all worked, and was never boring. And the dialogue was the best I've ever heard in a comic book movie.

But what did Batman give the kid, so his friends would believe him?

[comic_lover]

. Even Katie Holmes was great; she capably added a believable human element to the film, .Man,whatever high you're on,for The Love of Pete come down ! :confused: Katie Holmes is a lousy actress,and has the talent of a resident soap opera star.That's " Not Much " in real life standards.She's a " flavor of the month " actress that's getting some push because Tom Cruise has hired her to ' play the beard " for him and he has alot of power.That's about the size of it.

[Gaz]

Wow. Well, there were a few times at the end when I wished things would move along, but all in all that was pretty incredible. I think that maybe there are not great Batman movies so much as great Batman moments, and one that I will remember forever and that I've wished for for a long time was Batman finally being allowed to get ANGRY. That scene with the bad cop, Batman really going over the top, and it must've been with the addition of some special sound effects, but he really seemed not human. "DO I LOOK LIKE A COP TO YOU?" Wow.

And they had the guts to include all that "Razor's Edge" stuff, so that the first half of the movie didn't even have Batman in it. And it all worked, and was never boring. And the dialogue was the best I've ever heard in a comic book movie.

But what did Batman give the kid, so his friends would believe him?
Looked like his binoculars.

[handOFfate]

Great movie. The best of the lot. Some thoughts, even though i'm repeating whats already been said in some of this...

Bale. Great Batman, but to me an even better Bruce Wayne. The hotel scene and the scene where he chases off the guests were hilarious. You would never think that a guy like that is Batman. The Bat-voice was too forced at first, but it grew on me.
Holmes was okay, nothing special. She's far too young to be a district attorney. I'm making a prediction here: she'll be killed by either Joker or Scarecrow in the next movie and will be replaced by Harvey Dent.
Oldman does an unusual role as a straight good guy, and he plays it great. Caine is hilarious as Alfred, though I still loved the original Alfred from the Burton movies.
I actually liked Wilkinson's Falcone. Wilkinson, in all but appearence, was practicaly unrecognizable. Murphy's Scarecrow was great and creepy, though I think he should have been in the mask a bit more. He'll be back for the sequel. I didn't see the Ra's switch coming, i'll admit. Maybe it's because Neeson always plays the good guy.
Great ending. Leads directly into the sequel. And I loved that they took some scenes from Year One, one of the best Batman comics ever. Can't wait for part two.

[Gaz]

Man,whatever high you're on,for The Love of Pete come down ! :confused: Katie Holmes is a lousy actress,and has the talent of a resident soap opera star.That's " Not Much " in real life standards.She's a " flavor of the month " actress that's getting some push because Tom Cruise has hired her to ' play the beard " for him and he has alot of power.That's about the size of it.
She's better than you're giving her credit for, but it was the worst performance in the movie.

[Dennis K]

She's a " flavor of the month " actress that's getting some push because Tom Cruise has hired her to ' play the beard " for him and he has alot of power.That's about the size of it.


I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure she did this movie long before she signed on to be Cruise's beard. I thought she was alright, nothing special and is not a "must get" for the sequel(s).

[bannermanonemillion]

Also, its been bugging me trying to figure out where I had seen the actor who played Thomas Wayne before...so I went to imdb.com and figured it out. He's the Purifier from Chronicles of Riddick! I think his hair was bleached blonde in that one (been a while since I saw it), but that's him.

And he was Creepy Mysterious Non-Human Guy in "The Forgotten."

[Slappy san]

I give them props for making the movie over two hours.

I liked the movie but three things really stuck out:

the tank - the jumping roof tops and property damage was a bit much

the camera work during the fights - it was ok for the dock sequence but not for the rest

ken watanabe got hosed! - man o man...I feel so bad for him. but he got paid....

[Nate Grey]

And he was Creepy Mysterious Non-Human Guy in "The Forgotten."

Never saw The Forgotten.

[MrHymes01]

And he was Creepy Mysterious Non-Human Guy in "The Forgotten."
interesting movie... if not that good.

[Grant]

I thought it had some great moments, relaid the groundwork for the franchise (More Gordon next time) and handled the character of Batman/Bruce Wayne well. And I don't want to compare it to other superhero movies but honestly I wasn't feeling it that much overall. I can agree they over did the quick Batman fighting offscreen. Even the final fight on the subway you barely saw him due to the quick cutting.

I can see why other people enjoyed it. But for the most part I don't think it's my favorite Batman movie. Maybe I'll dig the next one.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I thought it had some great moments, relaid the groundwork for the franchise (More Gordon next time) and handled the character of Batman/Bruce Wayne well. And I don't want to compare it to other superhero movies but honestly I wasn't feeling it that much overall. I can agree they over did the quick Batman fighting offscreen. Even the final fight on the subway you barely saw him due to the quick cutting.

I can see why other people enjoyed it. But for the most part I don't think it's my favorite Batman movie. Maybe I'll dig the next one.


I agree with what you posted. The fight scenes were too cut and edited fast. You rarely saw Batman fight because they went so fast. Maybe Nolen was trying to stress how fast and good Bruce Is.

The movie delivered the goods though. Nolen scored every major point on what makes Bruce Wayne Batman. His drive to strike fear and make justice.

The end scene was perfect. Rachel realizes that Bruce Is gone. That he's just a mask for Batman. That he'll never be Bruce fully and Its a love that will never be. That to me shows critics of this who compared It to Spiderman and Mary Jane. Unlike them...Bruce has a mission and doesn't want love. He's Batman.....thats him.


The next film should have Ras's revenge as well as Ducard ( who never died In front of us) . As well as bringing In The Joker. I'd love to see Nolen's take on him. He made the Scarecrow Into a really scary villain. ( I saw a little kid start crying while watching ! )

[kmeyers]

The next film should have Ras's revenge as well as Ducard ( who never died In front of us) . As well as bringing In The Joker. I'd love to see Nolen's take on him. He made the Scarecrow Into a really scary villain. ( I saw a little kid start crying while watching ! )

you do know that Ducard IS Ra's. Liam Neeson's character is Ra's Al Ghul. The other guy (Ken Wantanabe)was a decoy.

[saintjon]

Loved it. I want to see it again actually.

I agree to an extent about the quick-cut fight editing, it's kind of an annoying trend directors can't seem to shake.

This is probably my favourite superhero movie ever, but I think Sin City was the best comic adaptation (can't really think of it as superhero though).

[SUPERECWFAN1]

you do know that Ducard IS Ra's. Liam Neeson's character is Ra's Al Ghul. The other guy (Ken Wantanabe)was a decoy.


I just realized It. My mind raced back when Bruce said It as the Mansion was about to get burned down. Damn...that was clever.

[kmeyers]

I just realized It. My mind raced back when Bruce said It as the Mansion was about to get burned down. Damn...that was clever.
yeah...watching it the second time, knowing that Ducard is Ra's the whole time is so much better.

[Guts/Batman]

yeah...watching it the second time, knowing that Ducard is Ra's the whole time is so much better.


Got me the first time.

But I will definitely be watching for that this time round. Next time I go sometime this week.

[LtMarvel]

Here is a review to listen to (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4704115) (complete with sound clips) by film critic Kenneth Turan.

Here comic book author Frank Miller talks (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4704766) about his work and the relationship between the new movie Batman Begins and his Batman: Year One series, on which the movie is loosely based.

enjoy.

[kmeyers]

after seeing it the second time, I kind of think that Ken Watanabe's character was speaking gibberish. that's why there were no subtitles. and so the real Ra's-Ducard(Neeson) could say whatever he wanted as an interpretation.

which is cool.

but I'm no language expert. can anyone translate what he says?

[IQ!]

Just saw it today. Awesome film. The trailers did make me think it would be really disappointing in the dialogue department but when I came out of the movie it was totally the opposite. The dialogue was actually one of the finer points of the movie. The movie itself was dark and not so cartoony. The only thing I didn't like and everyone will probably agree was the in-close fighting sequences that we also saw in Star Wars Episode III. At least in Batman Begins we didn't see up-close facial reactions. Whew! Easily my favorite Batman movie because of the darkness and character-driven storyline.

[Guts/Batman]

but...it IS the Batcave. and theyre going to build it into the hi-tech Batcave. But, I do agree that I like the way he discovered it, and it's "origin" Batman is just starting out here.

it is a cave. with a massive concentration of bats. = batcave.


True. Can't really argue against that.

Who's version of the Batcave do you think it will be built as? Jim Lee's uber Batcave in Hush or simpler like from the 4 previous films?

[Sentry]

Am i the only person who thought it was a weak movie???

Well no , as most of my mates thought it was poor too, but my reasons are as follows....

1. The love story was rubbish, she just kissed him at the end, no build up, nothing.

2. The plot, 'putting a chemical into the city water supply and then using a machine to vapouroise the water'... sounds like a bad james bond plot that got turned down.

3. Flight scenes were way too close ( im not goona argue with the darknesss as i think this is needed ) but they were badly shot.

4. the action, for me there were no real,,,'' WOW!'' moments,
but the good points were...

micheal caine
batman - yup the character, when he was on screne he was good, and delivered the lines well.

[Patient Boy]

Oh, one thing. Thank you Christopher Nolan for not resorting to using CGI for everything.

[The Mirrorball Man]

1. The love story was rubbish, she just kissed him at the end, no build up, nothing.
It was not a love story. Katie Holmes' character acted as Bruce Wayne's conscience, that's all.

[Voncaster]

Am i the only person who thought it was a weak movie???

Well no , as most of my mates thought it was poor too, but my reasons are as follows....

1. The love story was rubbish, she just kissed him at the end, no build up, nothing.

2. The plot, 'putting a chemical into the city water supply and then using a machine to vapouroise the water'... sounds like a bad james bond plot that got turned down.

3. Flight scenes were way too close ( im not goona argue with the darknesss as i think this is needed ) but they were badly shot.

4. the action, for me there were no real,,,'' WOW!'' moments,
but the good points were...

micheal caine
batman - yup the character, when he was on screne he was good, and delivered the lines well.

Yeah your not the only one who thought the film was weak. I personally thought it was so so. But to read some of these reviews you would think it was a ground breaking movie like the first Star Wars. It was a good movie with a rediculous ending. I'm glad some other posters see the flaws in this film.

[Nightcrawler]

I really enjoyed this film. It was much more realistic than the previous ones, and the acting was superb.

[west3man]

In some ways, this seemed like DC's version of the Hulk movie. The execution was superior, again in some ways, but both tried to make a real movie that happened to exist within a comic book universe. Both succeeded, in some ways, but failed in others.

I feel like it's been so long since I've seen it that I don't remember some of the specific elements that bugged me. One was that Bale's facial expressions, his teeth, lisp, whatever the heck, didn't look menacing or debonair (sp?) in either of his identities.

I'll tell you this, though: I really felt his love for Gotham City.

Where was the world's greatest detective? Where was ANY detective work? If anyone responds, please do so with something more than "It's YEAR ONE! He's not the greatest, YET!" Well, he should show an advanced aptitude for deductive reasoning just like he demonstrated one for martial arts.

A strong effort, though, for sure.

[Patman]

Can't say much that anyone hasn't already, but the fake-out with Watanabe got me.
And the Bat-voice worried me until he questioned Flass. When he screamed "SWEAR TO ME!" I shrank back. That's the first time outside the comics that I've gotten why Batman's scary.
The urban legend was also built well. "Where are you?!!!" "Can he really fly?" "I heard he can disappear!"

I kinda wished they would have shown Bats from Flass's POV, and that would mean Bats's face would be upside down, barking "SWEAR TO ME!!!!", which would be really intimidating and more scarier (yeah, yeah, I'm sure someone will say that would confuse the audience, but it would have been a sweet scene, nonetheless).

[Patman]

"Batman Begins" is "Batman Done Right". The opening 1st act covers of Bruce Wayne's training, and the backstory of his relationship with his father, and search for his identity after witnessing the traumatic childhood murders of his parents in that fateful, dark, alley. The tone of the film once Bruce returns to Gotham is just right, and the flow of the film is steady and exciting, and then it gives the viewer a chance to breathe, and embrace the world of Bruce and Batman, one that is rooted in a realism that belies its comic book origins.

The film is very good at providing the logistics of being Batman with the resources of billionaire Bruce Wayne at his disposal, and the production values are top-notch, and just plain fun to see on the big screen as proper respect was paid to them.

The inner character study of what drives Bruce Wayne towards the Batman persona is handled well, and the natural progression makes for a believable character arc, and his somewhat strained relationship with the world, and even his closest childhood friend, Rachel.

The villains are good, and provide more than enough of a challenge for Batman's initial foray into super-heroics. The dark humor present in the film is just right, never getting so dark and somber as to suck the life out of why a man would be driven to save people from the criminals who rely on society's indulgences. There are out and out laughs at key points that belie the turn of events to good effect.

The cast was uniformily good, even Katie Holmes' Rachel had enough of a moral compass and guts to be courageous in the face of heavy odds. Gary Oldman really "got" Gordon and he and Bale had a good give-n-take going on. Michael Caine as Alfred was a nice casting choice, not only good chemistry with Bale, but their relationship was based on family, not just of the servant-master dynamic. Morgan Freeman's turn as Lucius Fox provided some depth and charm to man who provides Batman with his wonderful toys. Liam Neeson and Cillian Murphy are also good in their roles, and drove the plot along very well. Besides some ancilliary characters, I couldn't complain about the cast at all.

So far, Batman Begins was the best movie viewing experience of 2005 for me. The audience was into the film, they laughed at the right moments, and were awed by some of the really nutty second unit footage that was pretty entertaining to watch. And to top it off, they applauded at the end as well.

I give it 4 stars, or a grade of A.

[Sentry]

It was not a love story. Katie Holmes' character acted as Bruce Wayne's conscience, that's all.


if it was not a love story and holmes was just there to act as a consciene then is she going to be in the next film? as i think it is rather weak to have the love interest only there for the leading man. build up the character with a little time a depth.

[HomerJay]

The cast was uniformily good, even Katie Holmes' Rachel had enough of a moral compass and guts to be courageous in the face of heavy odds. Gary Oldman really "got" Gordon and he and Bale had a good give-n-take going on. Michael Caine as Alfred was a nice casting choice, not only good chemistry with Bale, but their relationship was based on family, not just of the servant-master dynamic. Morgan Freeman's turn as Lucius Fox provided some depth and charm to man who provides Batman with his wonderful toys. Liam Neeson and Cillian Murphy are also good in their roles, and drove the plot along very well. Besides some ancilliary characters, I couldn't complain about the cast at all.

So far, Batman Begins was the best movie viewing experience of 2005 for me. The audience was into the film, they laughed at the right moments, and were awed by some of the really nutty second unit footage that was pretty entertaining to watch. And to top it off, they applauded at the end as well.


I agree whole-heartedly.
I honestly can't remember the last time I've seen a film where the cast had better chemistry. A few of the scenes with Bale & Caine were genuinely touching, and Morgan Freeman would still be good acting opposite Pauly Shore. The only case you could make for a miscast would be Tom Wilkinson as Falcone. Wilkinson (a great actor) did an excellent job, but you can't tell me that someone like Paul Sorvino wouldn't have fit it better.

The 2nd time I saw it this weekend, I took my Dad and HE actually applauded at the end. I've never seen him do that after seeing a movie before.

[kmeyers]

Where was the world's greatest detective? Where was ANY detective work? If anyone responds, please do so with something more than "It's YEAR ONE! He's not the greatest, YET!" Well, he should show an advanced aptitude for deductive reasoning just like he demonstrated one for martial arts.

A strong effort, though, for sure.

but it was year one!!!

seriously, though. he did do some detective work(briefly) he was shown checking out Gordon's background, and the rest of the police to see who was corrupt, and who wasn't. he also had to do some detective work to find where Falcone's drug deal shipment was going to go down.

also he figured out that Ra's was going to have to use the train for his plan in the end.

[shizz]

Brilliant.

It was year one. its not the legend yet. But he has "devoted himself to an ideal" so it will come.

Nice touches. No frills, just solid moviemaking.

[sir_snikt'alot]

it was great,except for-

the fight scenes,you couldnt see anything they were too choppy and close up,the ducard vs bruce sword fight was good,but every other fight was abit choppy.

the scarecrow didnt really make much impact,and he was abit of a joke,but murphy played him very well.

the things i liked alot-

the development of batman.

the relationship between bruce and alfred,as well as gordon.

the fear gas effect scenes where good.

batman using fear and intimidation was excellent,and the scene in the warehouse reminded me alot of the scene with dallas from 'alien'.

the bit at the end with the playing card.....i could of orgasmed it was that cool,best easter egg,shape of things to come teaser ive seen,and it actually made me shudder.

[west3man]

but it was year one!!!

seriously, though. he did do some detective work(briefly) he was shown checking out Gordon's background, and the rest of the police to see who was corrupt, and who wasn't. he also had to do some detective work to find where Falcone's drug deal shipment was going to go down.

also he figured out that Ra's was going to have to use the train for his plan in the end.
Good points.

Too bad shizz followed you up.

[Tobias March]

but it was year one!!!

seriously, though. he did do some detective work(briefly) he was shown checking out Gordon's background, and the rest of the police to see who was corrupt, and who wasn't. he also had to do some detective work to find where Falcone's drug deal shipment was going to go down.

also he figured out that Ra's was going to have to use the train for his plan in the end.

In addition his little trick with the ninja's to offset Ducard by cutting another. At least it shows his ability to analyze and predict an opponents response (tying his detective work more to a ninja's ability to assess an enemy, than Holmesian detection - he's a trained assassin who does not kill, tracks his prey and then defeats them).

Also a neat idea - there's no way Lucius could have saved all the residents of the Narrows. In one fell swoop the next generation of Batman villains are created - a mob of citizens and criminals who could either deal with the hallucinogen like Bruce and the rest of the League of Shadows - or go utterly insane.

[cactusmaac]

Was I the only one who was unimpressed with Oldman's portrayal of Gordon?

Jim Gordon's supposed to be the toughest cop in Gotham, someone who burns with righteous indignation at seeing the cesspool the city has become and who has the fire in his gut to do what's necessary, superiors be damned.

This Gordon seemed a little milquetoast.

[Tobias March]

Was I the only one who was unimpressed with Oldman's portrayal of Gordon?

Jim Gordon's supposed to be the toughest cop in Gotham, someone who burns with righteous indignation at seeing the cesspool the city has become and who has the fire in his gut to do what's necessary, superiors be damned.

This Gordon seemed a little milquetoast.

I thought he played him as being the more likeable face of Batman's 'army of two'.

[west3man]

Was I the only one who was unimpressed with Oldman's portrayal of Gordon?

Jim Gordon's supposed to be the toughest cop in Gotham, someone who burns with righteous indignation at seeing the cesspool the city has become and who has the fire in his gut to do what's necessary, superiors be damned.

This Gordon seemed a little milquetoast.
He had guts when he was in a position to do something with'em. I'll give him that much.

I got the impression that he knew what he was up against and decided it was best for everyone concerned if good cops stayed on-board to do what they could to make Gotham a better place. Imagine if the good people left the police force to all the bad people.

[Grant]

Was I the only one who was unimpressed with Oldman's portrayal of Gordon?

Jim Gordon's supposed to be the toughest cop in Gotham, someone who burns with righteous indignation at seeing the cesspool the city has become and who has the fire in his gut to do what's necessary, superiors be damned.

This Gordon seemed a little milquetoast.

I thought Gordon driving the Batmobile was pretty silly. Overall I agree with west3man's assesement him.

[Conn Seanery]

Loved it, a blast. What specifically did it for me the most:

No opening title card or cast list! Aside from those bats flying forming a bigger bat symbol, you jump right into meeting Bruce Wayne. Nicely done.

Gary Oldman as Gordon! Aside from the joy that they finally got someone to actually look like (a young) Gordon, you just can't have enough of Oldman playing anything. He rocks.

Street level justice! My biggest worry going into this was that the 2 villain formula was still alive and breathing, and that we'd have meta-humans Ra's and Scarecrow teaming up to beat Bats. Boy, was I wrong! The connection was believable, and neither were more than humans with skills (in their respective areas). *Phiew*

Batman is scary! I don't think any of the previous films ever truly captured the real fear Batman is supposed to induce in criminals, it was done beautifully in BB. The dock fight especially, as well as holding that dirty cop upside down and threatening him for info (awesome).

Great cast, great preformances all around. Real city feel! Great ending, open for sequels (but no Joker yet, please)! Cool support staff (Caine & Freeman)! Best Bat-flick to date, hands down.

[west3man]

Loved it, a blast. What specifically did it for me the most:

No opening title card or cast list! Aside from those bats flying forming a bigger bat symbol, you jump right into meeting Bruce Wayne. Nicely done.

Gary Oldman as Gordon! Aside from the joy that they finally got someone to actually look like (a young) Gordon, you just can't have enough of Oldman playing anything. He rocks.

Street level justice! My biggest worry going into this was that the 2 villain formula was still alive and breathing, and that we'd have meta-humans Ra's and Scarecrow teaming up to beat Bats. Boy, was I wrong! The connection was believable, and neither were more than humans with skills (in their respective areas). *Phiew*

Batman is scary! I don't think any of the previous films ever truly captured the real fear Batman is supposed to induce in criminals, it was done beautifully in BB. The dock fight especially, as well as holding that dirty cop upside down and threatening him for info (awesome).

Great cast, great preformances all around. Real city feel! Great ending, open for sequels (but no Joker yet, please)! Cool support staff (Caine & Freeman)! Best Bat-flick to date, hands down.
Your enthusiasm and glowing review make me want to reconsider my own impressions of it.

I think part of my reaction is also due to the fact that I'm not that much of a Bat-fan. I still think there were some weak moments, but those may have affected me more who was more invested in the character.

[Dreadstar]

...The connection was believable, and neither were more than humans with skills (in their respective areas). *Phiew*

One of the most important points of this new retelling, for me.

So far (and hopefully forever and ever, amen) this Batman doesn't live in a SUPERverse.

Thank god.

[howyadoin]

I just can't stop talking about this movie. So very many things I loved in it, and so much vindication of my criticisms of the previous movies. In the theater I could barely shut up, I found the movie so overwhelming.


High points for me: Batman as a visceral, physical, dangerous presence.

The art direction overall, including the sets.

The cast. (Though I don't think Katie Holmes added a whole lot, I don't think she was bad, either.)

The pace and the violence, which didn't at all come across as fake, the way it did in the Burton films.

The fact that the source material was treated with such respect.

A Batmobile that would actually work.





Oh, and I love how often the word "finally" comes up in conversations about this movie.

[Guts/Batman]

A Batmobile that would actually work.


Heh. You mean it could realistically turn left and right quickly? lol :D :p

[Steve]

So I saw it today.

Solid film. For a 2 and 1/2 hour film, it sure flies by quick.

Neesan was badass in this one. Murphy was decent as the Scarecrow but I really want to see more of Neesan down the line.

I give it 3 1/2 stars. I have to admit, seeing a bunch of clips and previews beforehand online took a little out of my enjoyment. No one to blame except myself for that.

Do I like it better than Burton's Batman? I'd say about the same. I prefer the gothic style of Burton's set pieces but love the realistic darkness of this film more.

Oh, and I had the displeasure of sitting near a lady with talkative kids. Ugh.

Hate that crap. Luckily as the film went on, they got bored and left.

[howyadoin]

Heh. You mean it could realistically turn left and right quickly? lolNot sure what you're getting at, but from what I've read the car is fully functional.

[Guts/Batman]

Not sure what you're getting at, but from what I've read the car is fully functional.


Well, those big long Batmobiles in the previous 4 don't look like they can turn real well on their own.

[howyadoin]

Well, those big long Batmobiles in the previous 4 don't look like they can turn real well on their own.Ah, gotcha. That makes sense, 'cause I always thought the biggest flaw in the old Batmobile idea was gridlock - what do you do when you're just... stuck in traffic?

[west3man]

I just can't stop talking about this movie. So very many things I loved in it, and so much vindication of my criticisms of the previous movies. In the theater I could barely shut up, I found the movie so overwhelming.


High points for me: Batman as a visceral, physical, dangerous presence.

The art direction overall, including the sets.

The cast. (Though I don't think Katie Holmes added a whole lot, I don't think she was bad, either.)

The pace and the violence, which didn't at all come across as fake, the way it did in the Burton films.

The fact that the source material was treated with such respect.

A Batmobile that would actually work.





Oh, and I love how often the word "finally" comes up in conversations about this movie.
I was wondering how long it'd take you to make it to this thread, now that you've seen the flick. :)

I'm diggin' how much YOU dug it. Between you and Conn, I'm probably gonna end up seeing it, again, at some point.

[GreenHornet]

Well I finally got to see it here in Kuwait ( with Arbic subtitles ) so I can now join the group to talk about it. I personally don't understand why they had a make Holmes into the movie. I found her so boring and I am glad I didn't look into any spoilers because I had no idea "Statey" Wayne Manor was in for that.
The ending was cool with the card and all round I thought it was a good movie. My only problem is "what no bataring?" Just bat throwing stars??

[hugh45]

My only problem is "what no bataring?" Just bat throwing stars??

Heh,Nighthawk. :D

[JDogindy]

I loved the original Batman movie (goofy, but entertaining). The next four were a drag. So "Begins" is Number 2 on my list.

[Gaz]

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense, 'cause I always thought the biggest flaw in the old Batmobile idea was gridlock - what do you do when you're just... stuck in traffic?
Well, if you're Bale, you squish the guys in front. :D

[Guts/Batman]

Well, if you're Bale, you squish the guys in front. :D


Wouldn't that take at least a little momentum? If there's someone behinf him I don't think he's getting the momentum he needs. heh

Plus, the BF Batmobile had a big grappling hook so tha's another way out of a traffic jam. :D

[hulahulk]

I finally saw it today. Awesome flick. No glitches anywhere. None of the corniness from particular scenes from the X Men and Spidey flicks, plenty of action (some of the close camera angles were a bit much, though), and an awesome story line. I rank this as one of the best comic movies. I will need to dwell upon things for a while in regards to its overall ranking.

[howyadoin]

I was wondering how long it'd take you to make it to this thread, now that you've seen the flick. :)

I'm diggin' how much YOU dug it. Between you and Conn, I'm probably gonna end up seeing it, again, at some point.I'll be seein' it again in the next week or so. My buddy John and I have been having this ongoing conversation about what a Batman movie should be like* for almost 10 years now (not constantly, of course). He saw it with his wife the night before I went, so now we wanna hook up and see it together.



*Neither one of us were at all disappointed, especially since we said a few years ago that Christian Bale was the natural choice for the role.

[west3man]

*Neither one of us were at all disappointed, especially since we said a few years ago that Christian Bale was the natural choice for the role.
I never saw that.

Would you mind detailing what made you guys think so?

I know people mention American Psycho and someone recently mentioned The Machinist, but what traits of his made him a "natural choice" for the roles of Batman and Bruce Wayne?

[Grant]

None of the corniness from particular scenes from the X Men and Spidey flicks...

Really? Not even Gordon driving the Batmobile? Seriously?

Am I the only one who thought that was kind of dumb.

[kmeyers]

Really? Not even Gordon driving the Batmobile? Seriously?

Am I the only one who thought that was kind of dumb.
I got the impression it was driving itself, and Gordon was there to aim when it got him there.

[Grant]

I got the impression it was driving itself, and Gordon was there to aim when it got him there.

And you didn't think it was silly?

[kmeyers]

And you didn't think it was silly?
no. you don't think Batman would be able to pre-plan a route, and program his car to drive it without him inside?

I could have done without the changing positions to go into weapon mode, or whatever...but it didn't bother me.

[smartalek]

I never saw that.

Would you mind detailing what made you guys think so?

I know people mention American Psycho and someone recently mentioned The Machinist, but what traits of his made him a "natural choice" for the roles of Batman and Bruce Wayne?
I can't speak for the other members here, but I for one thought his turn in "Equilibrium" showed his potential for comic book movie roles. He did a lot of fighting in that movie, apparently he learned all the movements in a very short time. He looked way more fluid than Keanu did in the Matrix. He played a character that was fighting the system, fighting to bring humans back to being human. His own war on crime.

[smartalek]

Of course, any sophisticated charography (sp?) was wasted because of the confusing editing in Batman. At least it shows the potential for Bale to have some really physically challenging fight work in upcoming Batman movies.

[howyadoin]

I never saw that.

Would you mind detailing what made you guys think so?

I know people mention American Psycho and someone recently mentioned The Machinist, but what traits of his made him a "natural choice" for the roles of Batman and Bruce Wayne?Mostly it was American Psycho, because it showed he was physically suited for the role (i.e., muscles, height, and an actual chin) and could portray crazy believably. But some of it was his turn as a fairly repressed guy in Laurel Canyon, too.

And I seem to recall liking him in Reign of Fire, even if the movie itself didn't make much of a lasting impression.

[howyadoin]

I can't speak for the other members here, but I for one thought his turn in "Equilibrium" showed his potential for comic book movie roles. He did a lot of fighting in that movie, apparently he learned all the movements in a very short time. He looked way more fluid than Keanu did in the Matrix. He played a character that was fighting the system, fighting to bring humans back to being human. His own war on crime.I think I need to see this movie.

[Slappy san]

I think I need to see this movie.

You sure do.

[The Joker]

I think I need to see this movie.

I recently saw "Equilibrium", and would definately recommend it. :)

[Greg Hatcher]

And you didn't think it was silly?

Of course it was. But silly in a good way. A little laugh so the movie wasn't unrelentingly grim. The "can you drive a stick" line got a huge reaction where we saw it -- laughs and cheers. It sort of puts a button on the these-two-will-be-friends foreshadowing.

Silly in a bad way is George Clooney whipping out the Bat-credit card. Something so retarded it jerks you out of the movie. We didn't react that way to Gordon and the car. We just liked that A) Batman would trust him with it, and B) it showed that the Batmobile isn't just a scary car to have chasing you, it also really is a terrifying vehicle to DRIVE, like surfing the edge of an ongoing explosion.

But, you should forgive the expression, your mileage may vary. I was just pointing out that there's silly and then there's SILLY, if you see what I'm saying. A little bit silly, in character, is okay. It's breaking character for the cheap laugh that kills a movie.

[TheFan]

The Scarecrow was easily the coolest of the three major villains. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he was the secondary villain, but I'm equally glad he could easily come back in the next. His fear gas effects were some of the most truly nightmarish things I've ever seen in a comic book movie, and I'm probably gonna have nightmares for weeks because of it.

That said, great movie! Best Batman ever.

[ElectraAlan]

By the way, we're not supposed to believe that Lucius Fox hasn't yet figured out that BW is Batman, are we? All he has to do is see footage on the news of the Batmobile. Don't assume that he's an idiot.

[Mike Pothier]

By the way, we're not supposed to believe that Lucius Fox hasn't yet figured out that BW is Batman, are we? All he has to do is see footage on the news of the Batmobile. Don't assume that he's an idiot.

He knows, he just learned to keep his mouth shut.

[Grant]

But, you should forgive the expression, your mileage may vary. I was just pointing out that there's silly and then there's SILLY, if you see what I'm saying. A little bit silly, in character, is okay. It's breaking character for the cheap laugh that kills a movie.

I don't mind silly in character. I mean I like the Spider-man movies and they get goofy at times but I felt it worked in context. But the Gordon and the Batmobile moment didn't jive with the rest of the movie. It didn't strike me as an in character moment either for Gordon. Also it kind of reminded me of Annakin accidently destroying the space station in Phantom Menace.

[Loren]

I don't really mind what the plot is, I just want some more little nods, like namechecking Selina Kyle or Renee Montoya.

I thought they did pretty good with the nods, without going overboard. At the least, we had:

Bruce Wayne
Thomas Wayne
Alfred
Joe Chill
Ra's al Ghul
Jonathan Crane
Ducard
Lucius Fox
James Gordon
Carmine Falcone
Flass
Commissioner Loeb
Mr. Zsasz

And though I don't think their names were said aloud, Martha Wayne and Barbara Gordon were in there too.

Compare that to Burton's first Batman film. Aside from the mains of Bruce, Alfred, Vicki Vale and the Joker, there was only Harvey Dent, an unrecognizable Gordon, and the unnamed Waynes in a stylized flashback.

Loren

[kmeyers]

I don't mind silly in character. I mean I like the Spider-man movies and they get goofy at times but I felt it worked in context. But the Gordon and the Batmobile moment didn't jive with the rest of the movie. It didn't strike me as an in character moment either for Gordon. Also it kind of reminded me of Annakin accidently destroying the space station in Phantom Menace.

Then you must have HATED Ra's entire plan against Gotham city. Microwave the water supply to release a fear toxin on the entire city? that's a comic book plot if I ever heard one.

[Gaz]

I thought they did pretty good with the nods, without going overboard. At the least, we had:

Bruce Wayne
Thomas Wayne
Alfred
Joe Chill
Ra's al Ghul
Jonathan Crane
Ducard
Lucius Fox
James Gordon
Carmine Falcone
Flass
Commissioner Loeb
Mr. Zsasz

And though I don't think their names were said aloud, Martha Wayne and Barbara Gordon were in there too.

Compare that to Burton's first Batman film. Aside from the mains of Bruce, Alfred, Vicki Vale and the Joker, there was only Harvey Dent, an unrecognizable Gordon, and the unnamed Waynes in a stylized flashback.

Loren

I LIKED that aspect, thus I want more. Not complaining about lack of it. :)

[Guts/Batman]

I LIKED that aspect, thus I want more. Not complaining about lack of it. :)


I would like to see the name "Cain" thrown a nod or two.

[Hiromi]

Movie was fantastic, one thing that struck me was that this was really the first Bats flick to really capture how terrifying he is to criminals properly, sort of like a horror movie in reverse if that makes any sense.

[YoungG03]

wHAT WAS THAT QUOTE rA SAID ON THE ICE/..

cRIMINALS THRIVE ON SOCIETY INDULGENCE of understanding?

[Greg Hatcher]

Then you must have HATED Ra's entire plan against Gotham city. Microwave the water supply to release a fear toxin on the entire city? that's a comic book plot if I ever heard one.

Oh, I don't know. I can sort of see where Grant's coming from on this. I just differ in my opinion that, from where I sat, the Batmobile/Gordon thing worked fine and wasn't a jarring tonal change. For him it was. I can see where there's room for argument there.

Part of my feeling about it is, honestly, what you could call personal baggage. Because the thing I loved most about Batman Begins is that this was MY Batman up there on the big screen.

One of the things about Batman is that after sixty-five-plus years, there are a lot of different versions, and people tend to clamp on to ONE of them; we all know there are people who will fight to the death defending their favorite version as being THE version. And I always figured it was like James Bond, you know, your favorite's the one you saw first.

I'm forty-three and my Batman was the one that started in 1969 with Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams and Frank Robbins, and on through Archie Goodwin and Sal Amendola and Jim Aparo, and finally came to a kind of climax in Englehart/Rogers. That's my guy. Bruce Wayne's a vapid playboy to the world, Batman is scary as hell to criminals but something of a folk hero to cops and poor people, Batman and Gordon are clearly friends, etc., etc... and that Batman is a guy who can crack a wry joke once in a while. So I was willing to go along with it in the movie, it didn't bug me. A large part of why I'm so forgiving, though, is I was overjoyed to see that this "back to basics" approach was obviously featuring MY guy, the 70's guy.... but MORE of him than I'd ever seen before, with background and nuances filled in. By the time Batman gave Gordon the keys to the Batmobile the movie owned me. I'd have gone along with almost anything.

But on the other hand I can see Grant's point too and it's hardly fair to trot out the idea that buying the premise means you buy everything. I did, but then this was pretty much the movie I'd been dreaming of seeing ever since they announced they were making one in the 80's.

[kmeyers]

Oh, I don't know. I can sort of see where Grant's coming from on this. I just differ in my opinion that, from where I sat, the Batmobile/Gordon thing worked fine and wasn't a jarring tonal change. For him it was. I can see where there's room for argument there.

But on the other hand I can see Grant's point too and it's hardly fair to trot out the idea that buying the premise means you buy everything. I did, but then this was pretty much the movie I'd been dreaming of seeing ever since they announced they were making one in the 80's.

Oh, I see where Grant is coming from. Because if I REALLY wanted to nitpick, there are a few things that could have been better, but I loved it. He pointed out that he thought the Gordon driving the Batmobile thing was silly.

I was just asking, if he thought THAT was silly, then he really must have thought the Ra's plot against Gotham was even more silly. Because if you think about it, it really kind of is a bit ridiculous.

But like I said, none of that bothered me. I can easily suspend my disbelief...This is BATMAN! This was the best Batman movie I've ever seen by far.

edit...and I agree with you...maybe I didn't care about the silliness at that point, because that movie OWNED me too by that point. either that or I was scared that Batman might come kick my ass for disliking his movie.

[west3man]

edit...and I agree with you...maybe I didn't care about the silliness at that point, because that movie OWNED me too by that point. either that or I was scared that Batman might come kick my ass for disliking his movie.
Too funny.


And if I never said it before, I agree that the water thing was pretty comic-bookish... on the low-end, I mean.

[Nega Knight]

Just got back. Pretty neat little film. Batman actually gets to be scary (that thing he did to that one crooked cop was just messed up), the fear toxin effects were pretty freakin' awesome, the Tumbler scene was just great (although that horrible design is still unforgivable), and the all the ninja action was sweet.

A few hang-ups:

The Scarecrow was disturbingly hot. The Scarecrow should not be that damn good-looking.

They kept prounouncing Ra's as "Raz". I don't really care if O'Neil wanted it to be that way, "Raysh" just sounds much better than "Raz" to me.

The League of Assassins was changed to the League of Shadows (granted, I doubt Bruce would hook up with an organization calling themselves the League of Assassins or the Order of the Demon)

The Bat-tractor

Alfred's cockney accent (although Michael Caine makes up for it by being Michael Caine)

The Batsuit itself was a bit clunky. Especially around the head.

Lucius Fox is some kind of tech-god now? Ah well, Morgan Freeman still does an awesome job.

But all that stuff is just fanboy whining on my part. The movie is great, go see it.

[west3man]

pquote=NK]The Scarecrow was disturbingly hot. The Scarecrow should not be that damn good-looking.[/quote] Ha! I never thought of it that way.

I thought his eyes stood out, but not so much that he couldn't be the bad guy... or the Scarecrow. He looked so SKINNY that it just seemed to WORK. I dunno.

They kept prounouncing Ra's as "Raz". I don't really care if O'Neil wanted it to be that way, "Raysh" just sounds much better than "Raz" to me. I'm surprised you feel that way. I always thought "Raysh" was some weird-sounding $#!+

I've always pronounced it "rahz" in my head.

The Batsuit itself was a bit clunky. Especially around the head. The head and the cape are all I had a problem with, I think.

[hulahulk]

Really? Not even Gordon driving the Batmobile? Seriously?

Am I the only one who thought that was kind of dumb.

Well, to be honest, it happened quickly. And compared to, say, the pizza delivery scene in Spidey 2, it was quite satisfactory. I will not bring up some of the cheesy moments in the X films. Don't get me wrong, I love all these films, own 'em on DVD, but I think the new Batman has fewer flaws than the other recent comic movies.

[Grant]

Then you must have HATED Ra's entire plan against Gotham city. Microwave the water supply to release a fear toxin on the entire city? that's a comic book plot if I ever heard one.

I wasn't keen on it ;) But it's much better then Magneto's mutant making machine in X-Men.

[Grant]

Well, to be honest, it happened quickly. And compared to, say, the pizza delivery scene in Spidey 2, it was quite satisfactory.

But that felt felt appropiate to the character to me.

I don't mind cheese if it's character. I thought it was great when Scarecrow got taken out by the taser and screamed like a woman.

[meethraa]

I'm with Grant on this one. The fact that it was Gordon just made it more distracting.
And while I'm a big fan of his and thought that he absolutely looked the part, I wasn't too impressed with Oldman's Gordon. Though most of it was the script.

[Grant]

Oh, I don't know. I can sort of see where Grant's coming from on this. I just differ in my opinion that, from where I sat, the Batmobile/Gordon thing worked fine and wasn't a jarring tonal change. For him it was. I can see where there's room for argument there.

Part of my feeling about it is, honestly, what you could call personal baggage. Because the thing I loved most about Batman Begins is that this was MY Batman up there on the big screen.

One of the things about Batman is that after sixty-five-plus years, there are a lot of different versions, and people tend to clamp on to ONE of them; we all know there are people who will fight to the death defending their favorite version as being THE version. And I always figured it was like James Bond, you know, your favorite's the one you saw first.

I'm forty-three and my Batman was the one that started in 1969 with Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams and Frank Robbins, and on through Archie Goodwin and Sal Amendola and Jim Aparo, and finally came to a kind of climax in Englehart/Rogers. That's my guy. Bruce Wayne's a vapid playboy to the world, Batman is scary as hell to criminals but something of a folk hero to cops and poor people, Batman and Gordon are clearly friends, etc., etc... and that Batman is a guy who can crack a wry joke once in a while. So I was willing to go along with it in the movie, it didn't bug me. A large part of why I'm so forgiving, though, is I was overjoyed to see that this "back to basics" approach was obviously featuring MY guy, the 70's guy.... but MORE of him than I'd ever seen before, with background and nuances filled in. By the time Batman gave Gordon the keys to the Batmobile the movie owned me. I'd have gone along with almost anything.

But on the other hand I can see Grant's point too and it's hardly fair to trot out the idea that buying the premise means you buy everything. I did, but then this was pretty much the movie I'd been dreaming of seeing ever since they announced they were making one in the 80's.

I think my main issue was that it strived so hard to be realistic and serious (I do acknowledge the lighter moments) that the comic booky elements just awkwardly stood out... for me. I'm more forgiving then most when it comes to comic book movies.

[hulahulk]

But that felt felt appropiate to the character to me.

I don't mind cheese if it's character. I thought it was great when Scarecrow got taken out by the taser and screamed like a woman.


I concur one million percent.

[hulahulk]

I wasn't keen on it ;) But it's much better then Magneto's mutant making machine in X-Men.

That's what I was getting at in my earlier post. Even the idea of Striker's plot of X2 kinda left me feeling empty. While poisoning Gotham City via fear gas was a bit of a stretch, it certainly felt very comic booky in a good way. And yeah, even the train scene was a little over the top. But it was still good.

[kmeyers]

Too funny.


And if I never said it before, I agree that the water thing was pretty comic-bookish... on the low-end, I mean.

but did it bother you enough to take away from the rest of the movie?

That is the question.

[howyadoin]

but did it bother you enough to take away from the rest of the movie?Not at all. The only thing that took me out of the movie at all was Katie Holmes's righteous indignation.

[kmeyers]

pquote=NK]The Scarecrow was disturbingly hot. The Scarecrow should not be that damn good-looking.

I thought his eyes stood out, but not so much that he couldn't be the bad guy... or the Scarecrow. He looked so SKINNY that it just seemed to WORK. I dunno.
I thought his eyes(Crane) stood out too...in the "psycho, Im going to kill you now, look." Much like "Kevin" from Sin City...both of those dudes we're creepy as hell. and a lot of it had to do with those crazy eyes.

[meethraa]

While I'm at it, my thoughts on the film as a whole... Didn't like it as much as thought I would, especially after reading so many enthusiastic posts on the last few days.

First of all, the bad. I didn't like the cowl at all. In some scenes it gave Bale a chubby face. Not as scary as it was supposed to. The contrast with the scary face we see when Crane is delusional just makes it more obvious.

And like almost everyone else said, the action scenes were way too shaky. For a movie that mentioned theatrics so much, it could've used a bit more of stylization during the fights. I'd say the exact opposite thing in most movies, but this is Batman...

I don't like the idea of a Batcar in the movies, and this one didn't change my mind. The exact same idea, with Batman running from the police across rooftops without the car would make me much more happy. It would be a challenge to have him carry Rachel the whole way, but it could be done.

Like I said, Gordon was a bit disappointing, though there were some good scenes, like the ones with the Batsignal. If fact, I wasn't expecting them to even use the signal, so that was a very nice surprise.

I went in knowing that Liam Neeson was Ra's, but I still thought the twist was handled well. I don't think most people saw it coming, though it made complete sense to the character.

Not seeing Bruce learning some of his detective skills was disappointing, and though I doubt it'll happen, I hope they show some of it (the learning) in future sequels.

The whole plot with the water and the train was... not what I'd do, but one good thing it did was some scenes reminding me of Night Of The Living Death, especially when the group led by Zsaz cornered Rachel and the kid.

Speaking of Rachel, the hating Katie Holmes is getting is really unfair. If you bought the character on paper then her performance didn't ruin it. The speech about Bruce being the mask sounded like bad fan service, though. Especially since it's something I myself have said on the boards so many times. But that's not her fault anyway.

The only bad performance for me was the kid playing young Bruce. Talk about stiff acting. I had just mentioned to Pól the day before how bad I thought child actors were in old classic films (Except Chaplin's THE KID) but then this kid just proved me wrong.

But the really, really good thing to come out of it can be summed up in one word: Scarecrow. Damn, that was a cool villain! Definitely my favorite of every Batmovie so far. I remember watching the trailer, and the scene where Crane goes "It's him. The Batman." came off like overacting and I thought he was going to be the weakest link. Was I wrong. Every other scene with him was just perfect.

Overall I was disappointed. In itself this movie didn't do it for me as the perfect Batman film, but on the other hand it gives me hope for the franchise.
Also, the fact that Nolan was hired to direct but then they went for a big budget style of filmmaking really hurt the final product. I hope that for the next one they either get someone more comfortable with that kind of filmmaking (even if that someone is Nolan himself, having learned from this experience), or scale it down a notch to better fit his style (which obviously I doubt).

But with all it's flaws, after watching the movie I just had to go and get myself the Year One HC, so kudos for that.