My review of Batman Begins - SPOILERS

[Darkseid]

Yeah, there's going to be some SPOILERS (d'uh)

http://www.fremto.com/guanoshovel/pictures/batmanbeginsbiglogo.jpg

Alright, here we go...


I was invited to the June 13th Batman Begins screening at the Paramount Theatre in Montreal. On such a hot and humid day, I looked forward to watching a new interpretation of this classic icon in an air-conditioned cinema to escape the heat. After the gauche bastardization of this beloved character by Tim Burton (he even admitted he has never read a Batman comic) and the tasteless, sexual innuendos of Joel Schumacher, it appears that the relaunch of the Batman franchise on the silver screen by director Christopher Nolan is much anticipated as well as hyped. While it is by far the best of all the Warner Brothers Batman films, screenwriter David Goyer still has much homework to do as to what makes The Caped Crusader so appealing to the masses. For somebody whose credit list includes such ‘gems’ as Kickboxer 2 & Death Warrant, why is he so vaunted within the comic book industry? Trust me folks, David Fincher he ain’t!

The problem with this film is that it is clearly divided into two parts. Hey, so is From Dusk Till Dawn but it was artistically envisioned by Robert Rodriguez & Quentin Tarantino as such. During the first hour, I was absorbed about the determination of Bruce Wayne in his quest to seek the path he will walk on. The origin of the man who will later don a cape and cowl to defend Gotham City from the tyranny of evil is clearly defined. Michael Caine’s portrayal of Alfred Pennyworth is convincing. He leaves no doubt about Alfred’s loyalty and affection towards the son of his former employers. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for Liam Neeson in his role as Henri Ducard (later revealed to be Ra’s Al Ghul). One of the principle reasons as to why the Spider-Man and X-Men films are successful in their transition from comic to film is due to the authenticity that Ian McKellan (Magneto), Willem Dafoe (Green Goblin) & Alfred Molina (Doctor Octavius) conveyed in their roles as the heroes’ nemesis. They were larger than life which in turn made the protagonists shine brighter. For a madman who is at the head of a secret society that emerged at the dawn of civilization, Neeson fails to accentuate the splendour of a leader who would make the likes of Genghis Khan & Attila The Hun tremble at his feet. However, in Neeson’s defence, much of the blame has to be placed upon Goyer’s layman script. The spectators never truly grasp how maniacally dangerous and organized Ra's Al Ghul is supposed to be. More of a grand presence and less stifling dialogue would have went a long way in not making the audience long for a Joker a la Jack Nicholson or a Riddler served by Frank Gorshin. Heck, I would have settled for Debra Wilson doing her imitation of Eartha Kitt as Catwoman!

It is with the second half that the film truly loses its composure. The script abruptly shifts from character development and focus on Bruce Wayne to transform itself into a Die Hard wannabe. Explosions galore, loud car chase scenes (upon rooftops no less) and a rapid pacing that contains more plot holes than Michael Jackson’s plea for innocence simply makes Batman Begins a generic action film instead of a unique movie going experience. Christian Bale’s physique and acting skills induces a valid Bruce Wayne/Batman thus it is lamentable that the screenwriters did not deem important to spotlight the detective or intellectual prowess of the Dark Knight. Contrary to what is presented with this film, the character does not always fight the good fight by relying solely on his fists and gadgets. It is his keen mind and predisposition for logic that enables him to stay alive so he can halt those who prey on the weak.

And why is it that every damn Batman film writer must insist on forcing romance into the script? This is friggin’ Batman not a chick flick fer crying out loud!. The men who will see this movie with their date do not have in mind to seize an occasion to liplock during an emotional scene between Bruce Wayne and Rachel Dawes! Not only does Katie Holmes’ pedestrian acting made me convulse into involuntary diarrhoea spasms whenever she appeared on the screen but I have had it with Batman always divulging his secret identity in order to get ‘some’. Bruce Wayne is a handsome billionaire who can have any woman at his side so there is no need for him to reveal that he dresses up as a rabies infested rodent to impress the chicks.

Although their roles are limited, Scarecrow (Cillian Murphy) and Carmine Falcone (Tom Wilkinson) legitimizes the reason why there should be a Batman. I am highly impressed by Wilkinson’s performance as a nasty piece of work that is causing Gotham City to rot like a diseased carcass. While Rutger Hauer remains a fine actor, I must question the validity of his character (Richard Earle). The story did not necessitate the sub-plot that Earle’s involvement offers in order to make Lucius Fox interesting or sympathetic. Whether it is in his role as Brig. Gen. Billy Ford, President Tom Beck or God, Morgan Freeman is always a painful reminder as to how Se7en would have been so much better without his reliable one dimensional acting. The film’s biggest surprise is Gary Oldman with his portrayal of Lt. James Gordon. For those who have read and enjoyed Frank Miller’s Batman: Year One, we can immediately acknowledge that unlike Goyer & Nolan, Oldman actually read as well as understood the source material upon which this film is supposedly based upon.

This interpretation of Batman is annoyingly inconsistent. We are led to believe that the story revolves around the learning process and obstacles of the man who will become the champion of Gotham City yet as soon as he dons the costume, it appears that he is an experienced combat expert. There is also too much reliance on the gadgets and technology that are at his disposal. This shifts the idea that Bruce Wayne has honed his body and mind for years to wage his crusade only to come across as a poor man’s G.I. Joe with multiple accessories. Those were no doubt created and imagined for the toy line from which AOL/Warner stands to make immeasurable profit at the expense of the integrity of the Bob Kane/Bill Finger creation. The pinheads at Warner Brothers would be wise to take a page from Sony and 20th Century Fox on how to generate a repeat audience of their super-hero films. The plan is simple; hire competent screenwriters such as David Hayter, Tom DeSantos and David Koepp who have a concise understanding on why many super-hero characters have been popular for many decades in comic book form and transpose their essence unto film. It is evident that the works of Stan Lee, Gerry Conway & Chris Claremont were handed over to them as essential guidelines when the studios committed themselves to bringing the X-Men & Spider-Man to the non-comic book fan. In this instance, Goyer and Co. fail to impress by cherry picking certain elements from Batman: Year One in order to spin their own inane trend around the character. Warner Brothers could have produced a film that may have surpassed the successful blockbusters from their competitors had they insisted that the writers analyse the pioneering works of Batman’s original creators alongside the classic tales of Dennis O’Neil, Steve Englehart and Frank Miller.

Of course there will be an incalculable amount of money being spent on theatre tickets, related merchandise and toys but when Bat-Mania will wane down with the upcoming release of the Fantastic Four film, cooler heads will prevail and the realization will settle in that Batman Begins situates itself somewhere in between Daredevil and The Punisher where super-hero motion pictures are concerned. If you wish to indulge yourself in watching some great Batman adventures on celluloid, I suggest The Batman Animated Series alongside Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm. Paul Dini and Kevin Altieri were not only able to capture but expand upon the character’s charisma. A task that is obviously impossible for Goyer and Nolan to accomplish.

[Glaucon]

James Franco (Doctor Octavius)


Alfred Molina played Doc Ock. James Franco played Harry Osborn.



And why is it that every damn Batman film writer must insist on forcing romance into the script? This is friggin’ Batman not a chick flick fer crying out loud!. The men who will see this movie with their date do not have in mind to seize an occasion to liplock during an emotional scene between Bruce Wayne and Rachel Dawes! Not only does Katie Holmes’ pedestrian acting made me convulse into involuntary diarrhoea spasms whenever she appeared on the screen but I have had it with Batman always divulging his secret identity in order to get ‘some’. Bruce Wayne is a handsome billionaire who can have any woman at his side so there is no need for him to reveal that he dresses up as a rabies infested rodent to impress the chicks.


I was hoping he wasn't going to do that in this film! Batman is terrible at keeping secrets in these movies. This absolutely disgusts me. They want a Batman movie, yet they refuse to write Batman with proper characterization.

[YoungG03]

It just doesnt look interesting......I might still go as a fan but really!

[Funeral Party]

And why is it that every damn Batman film writer must insist on forcing romance into the script? This is friggin’ Batman not a chick flick fer crying out loud!. The men who will see this movie with their date do not have in mind to seize an occasion to liplock during an emotional scene between Bruce Wayne and Rachel Dawes! Not only does Katie Holmes’ pedestrian acting made me convulse into involuntary diarrhoea spasms whenever she appeared on the screen but I have had it with Batman always divulging his secret identity in order to get ‘some’. Bruce Wayne is a handsome billionaire who can have any woman at his side so there is no need for him to reveal that he dresses up as a rabies infested rodent to impress the chicks.

WB wouldn't let them make the movie unless they put in a love interest. Nolan and Goyer were given a lot of freedom, but they were forced to put in a love interest by the studio.

[kalorama]

I saw the film at a free screening last night and enjoyed it quite a bit. Not great, but very good. You make some interesting points but I think your review is skewed by the same false assumption that too many comics fans take into a comic-based film. Namely the fact that film and comics are two separate mediums and that moving any story from one to the other (especially a character like Batman with 65 years of back story and a multitude of interpretations by 100s of creators) requires certain interpretive changes and adjustments.

I think this is especially apparent in your criticisms of Ra’s Al Ghul’s portrayal. You’re right that he’s not as grand and expansive as the comics version, but you’re wrong to think that’s a mistake or an oversight. The movie Ra’s is the head of a secret society that’s been working behind the scenes for generations to shape the path of civilizations. Keeping something like that secret requires a very low profile. If he were as flamboyant and (as you put it) “larger than life” as the comic’s version (or the other movie villains you cite), he wouldn’t be able to keep his existence a secret. In a movie that clearly attempts to ground its story in something akin to reality, the lower-key tone of the character is a necessity. I thought Neeson’s performance hit just the right notes.

Your criticism of the speed with which Batman becomes combat ready after donning the costume is misdirected. The film went to very specific lengths to show us how physically capable Bruce was before he donned the suit, both in the prison fight and in his training at Ra’s temple (including his final training session and the way he fights his way out of the burning temple). It was made pretty obvious that he was more than capable of handling himself before he “officially” becomes Batman. Add to that the fact that, for all of his prowess, we see early on that, even as Batman, he’s not unbeatable, since the Scarecrow nearly takes him out.

With regard to Morgan Freeman ... I couldn’t possibly think you are more wrong. He’s a great actor, although I’ll admit he’s not given much to work with here, he does his usual good job with what little he has. (On a side note, his presence in Se7en is what made the movie work, IMO). Oldman does a nice job, although his Gordan was a little bare, character wise. I think Tom Wilkinson is a fine actor, but I thought he was miscast as Falcone. He didn’t project the air of menace I expected from a guy who was supposed to be ruthless, and he didn’t project as the least bit Italian. While Hauer’s character was fairly marginal to the actual Batman story (was he in on the plot to destroy Gotham or not? It’s hinted but never made clear) he played an important part in the Bruce Wayne story. After all those years away with no contact, it would have been unrealistic for Bruce to simply walk into the office and take over the company. He needed a foil, someone to test his mettle in an arena other than the street. Batman’s not just a great fighter, he’s a master strategist, and having Bruce maneuver his way around Earl helped give us a hint of that. It was fairly simple, but this ain’t War and Peace. Cillian Murphay’s Scarecrow was generally not that impressive, but then he really felt sort of shoe-horned in. He never really came across a s a great threat. He was essentially a dupe for Ra’s. Michael Caine is excellent as Alfred. He give us a very clear sense of his love not only for Bruce but for the Wayne family and legacy. Katie Holmes was not bad but not good. She held her own mostly, but the role would have benefited from the presence of an actress with a bit more screen presence.

(On the issue of Rachael and Bruce’s relationship, however, you miss the mark. There was no romance being forced into the script. They were never romantically involved. They were childhood friends and when Bruce left following Chill’s death they weren’t even that. Certainly there was some level of underlying attraction, but at no point until the very end of the movie did it even begin to rise beyond that level. And that ember flickered out after only a few seconds. He didn’t reveal his identity to Rachael because he wanted to “get some” as you put it. He did it because she was his best friend, maybe his only friend, and it hurt him to think that the one person in the world (aside from Alfred) who actually knew the real Bruce Wayne now thought he was a drunken louse. Bruce says to Ra’s that his compassion was what separates him from the criminals. Part of compassion is human connection. If he’d let his connection to Rachael dissolve, it would have taken a piece of his humanity with it.)

Christian Bale was easily the best Batman yet. More significantly, he was the best Bruce Wayne yet. He really portrayed Bruce as a human being, not just another disguise for Batman (something too long missing from the comics). And the skill with which he portrayed distinctly different young Bruce just out of college and Bruce as a grown man following his training was impressive.

Saying the movie situates itself between “Daredevil and the Punisher” does it a huge disservice. Despite its flaws, it’s leagues ahead of either of those two disasters. Overall I thought it worked fairly well, but Batman has been reinterpreted so many ways in so many venues over the years that there really is no consistent vision of him that all movie goers will carry into the theater. That could make connecting with the audience a bit tricky. But if viewers are willing to view it on it’s own merits with fresh eyes, I think they’ll be rewarded for the effort.

[The Wayner]

Batman Begins situates itself somewhere in between Daredevil and The Punisher where super-hero motion pictures are concerned

Whoa. That's a heavy shelving of the film. Only makes me more interested to see it for myself.

Thanks for the review!

[surferfan23]

This movie is freaking amazing. I just saw the midnight showing and everything about the movie is over and above expections. They promised, and they delivered five-fold. Quit whining about "romance" in a Batman movie, if you want a gay Batman, I guess we'll have to get Adam West and the Bat-nipples out and combine the two. This movie was amazing. All the girls and guys I went with thought the same. THe acting was great, the story only left loose ends for the sequel, and Bale was the best Batman we've seen yet. THE DARK KNIGHT IS BACK!!!!!!!



Yeah, there's going to be some SPOILERS (d'uh)

http://www.fremto.com/guanoshovel/pictures/batmanbeginsbiglogo.jpg

Alright, here we go...

[1HELLBOY]

It's funny how you say that out of all of them, Oldman did the best. But then over on DefenderofGotham.net, he's quoted as saying, "I can imagine that they're not going to be disappointed. If Batman fans don't like this Batman, then you just can't satisfy them."

:rolleyes:

[Sockburger]

I just saw the midnight screening.

8/10

GOODIES:

- The extremely dark portrayal of Bats is soothing after the goofy films with Clooney and Kilmer.
- Christian Bale is an ideal hotshot Bruce Wayne. The way he sways people from ever thinking he was batman thoughout the film is hilarious!!! He deliberately pretends to be a jerk!!! He acts like a jackass!! You'll see what I mean... :cool:
- **The sound was the best I ever heard in a movie!!!**
- Great musical score that works well with the film.
- **At some points of the movie you will be actually fear Batman and you might shake in the dark theater. (definetly a scary batman and thats the way it should be!!)**
- Good acting for the most part. (Bale, Neeson, Oldman)
- the Tumbler Batmobile is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BADIES:

- Bale was overdoing Batman with the voice work.
- **Cheesy cliched statements plague the film badly...sh*t like: "Why do we fall?...etc" and the worst part is that there said over again to make the script look clever and cute. bullsh*t!!!**
- The actors mummble a lot!!!!!!! Its hard to hear what there saying half the time because the music is set so loud!!!!
- Katie Holmes = bad actress
- Annoying drag during the first parts of the movie when he trains...
- **Not enough Scarecrow...you barely see the haybag!!!!!!!!**

** = Major Points


THOUGHTIES:

overall i thought it was a good movie...
I would have to say it shelves between Spiderman 2 and Sin City
but not better than Sin City...
Maybe Im being a little hard on the movie but then again its 4 o clock in the morning and im going to sleep....

[Mia]

I echo everything that Kalorama has said. Darkseid's 'review' sounds like a review criticising a film for what it never intended to be in the first place. Which I find unfair.
I was very skeptical about this film right up until I sat down to watch it last week. And I was glad to see that all my skepticism has been blown away.

[Uncensored]

Darkseid's review just sounds like a fanboy who had his hopes set too high. I mean come on, we're talking about the film Roger Ebert called "one of the best films of the year". For him to say that about a comic book film is really something.

[hugh45]

WB wouldn't let them make the movie unless they put in a love interest. Nolan and Goyer were given a lot of freedom, but they were forced to put in a love interest by the studio.

I hope it's not because of the Spidey movie,because Bruce is a player
while Peter is married or was I believe.

[Uncensored]

I hope it's not because of the Spidey movie,because Bruce is a player
while Peter is married or was I believe.

Yes, Peter is married.

[pmpknface]

I saw this flick last night and it was awesome!!!

All you need to know is, they got it right. All of it. Was it perfect? No - I may have tweaked a fw little things here and there, but it has gotta be the best Bat-flick made yet.

[Mr. Bungle]

I echo everything that Kalorama has said. Darkseid's 'review' sounds like a review criticising a film for what it never intended to be in the first place. Which I find unfair.
I was very skeptical about this film right up until I sat down to watch it last week. And I was glad to see that all my skepticism has been blown away.

I agree with your thoughts on this "review".

And I was skeptical before I saw the preview screening at Wizard World. It proved my worries were over nothing.

Also, Daredevil and Punisher are fantastic adaptations, so I agree with that statement, even though it was supposed to be a knock against it.

As far as DC films go, this is by far their best.

[bigman45]

its not better then batman 1 :eek: or batman 2...

[surferfan23]

Here's my list for mainstream comic hero movies:BLADE IS NOT MAINSTREAM!!

1.) Batman Begins
2.) Batman
3.) Spider-Man 2
4.) X-Men 2
5.) Spider-Man
6.) Batman Returns
7.) Superman
8.) Superman 2
9.) X-Men
10.) The Punisher
11.) Batman Forever
12.) The Hulk
13.) Daredevil
14.) Superman 3
15.) Superman 4
16,) Batman and Robin

[kalorama]

By what definition is Blade not "mainstream"? He's an established part of the Marvel Universe.

[Chewbaccacabra]

This was a fine film. I enjoyed it immensely and look forward to seeing sequels.

And I honestly don't understand the reviewer's comparison with From Dusk To Dawn which was a complete stinker cinematically. Batman Begin's "two halves" blend and mesh perfectly with the use of flashbacks and plot threads. It was masterful.

I can't imagine anyone not liking this that enjoys comics even slightly. I hope it does some business and we get another one in 2 years. Fastrack this franchise!

[surferfan23]

By what definition is Blade not "mainstream"? He's an established part of the Marvel Universe.


I should've elaborated--sorry about that. By mainstream, I mean that the general public will know who the hero is when they hear the name. I read comics growing up, saw the first movie, and I didn't know he was a Marvel character until a few years ago, like most of my friends and whover else I talk to.

Everyone knows who Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, The Hulk, The Punisher, and the X-Men are by name recognition.

[kalorama]

I should've elaborated--sorry about that. By mainstream, I mean that the general public will know who the hero is when they hear the name. I read comics growing up, saw the first movie, and I didn't know he was a Marvel character until a few years ago, like most of my friends and whover else I talk to.

Everyone knows who Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, The Hulk, The Punisher, and the X-Men are by name recognition.

The Punisher and the X-Men were hardly household names to noncomics fans prior to their film incarnations. What would make you think that a wide audience of people not familiar with comics would have any idea who the Punisher was? Outside of the comics (and the minor bad movie cult status of the Dolph Lundgren movie) the Punisher had no pop culture presence outside of comics. Given that the recent film was a flop, he probably still doesn't.

[Uncensored]

The Punisher and the X-Men were hardly household names to noncomics fans prior to their film incarnations. What would make you think that a wide audience of people not familiar with comics would have any idea who the Punisher was? Outside of the comics (and the minor bad movie cult status of the Dolph Lundgren movie) the Punisher had no pop culture presence outside of comics. Given that the recent film was a flop, he probably still doesn't.

Everyone I know is at least familiar with the name X-Men from the fantastic Fox cartoon from the early 90's. I also know several non-comic fans who are aware of the Punisher, even before the recent film (and who had never even heard of the Lundgren film), I also a few years back would see alot of punks wearing Punisher skull t-shirts.

Though the statement about Blade not being know is something I agree with, because the only reason I knew who he was before reading comics was from the Fox Spider-Man cartoon.

[surferfan23]

The Punisher and the X-Men were hardly household names to noncomics fans prior to their film incarnations. What would make you think that a wide audience of people not familiar with comics would have any idea who the Punisher was? Outside of the comics (and the minor bad movie cult status of the Dolph Lundgren movie) the Punisher had no pop culture presence outside of comics. Given that the recent film was a flop, he probably still doesn't.


Well since The Punisher was a "flop" which had a decent box office and phenomenal DVD sales and a great videogame that was a huge hit as well, and the DVD sales were enough to put a sequel into production, I think that you have no idea about what you're speaking about.

The X-Men were not household names? What are you smoking? They have been ever since I've been born, which was in 1980. Videogames, cartoons, etc. Come on back to reality.

But we're getting away from what this thread is about, the spectacular film which is Batman Begins. This film exceeded expectations, and the new DC logo in the beginning was cool as well.

THE DARK KNIGHT IS BACK!!!!!!!!!

[SUPERMAN PRIME]

one of the best super hero movies i have ever seen

[Murrocko]

I gotta know, does Scarcrow and Ra get killed off in this movie like the other villians from the previous Batmans?

[Tom]

13th has asked me to moderate this thread as she won't be seeing the film for a couple of days and doesn't want it spoiled.

Having said that, please restrict this discussion to your thoughts on the film, not your thoughts on other posters. Insults will be deleted and repeat offenders will face a 3-day ban.

Thank you.

[surferfan23]

I gotta know, does Scarcrow and Ra get killed off in this movie like the other villians from the previous Batmans?


SEE THE MOVIE!!!!!!

[Smokeyjay]

I didnt bother reading the review-didnt want spoilers.

But last time I checked, Rottentomatoes had the tomatoe reviews at 87% which is really good for a comic book film. The only other comic book films getting higher were Spiderman, Spiderman 2, and Superman2.

[Daniel Lewis]

I saw this movie last night at midnight and I loved it.

Of course, I read the script a year and 1/2 ago, so I knew it would rock. I liked a few scenes that didn't make it into the final movie, but yeah, this is the greatest comic book movie ever.

[Mr. Croup]

As to the villians its left up in the air.

This movie does a great homage to all the various verions and ret-cons of the Batman comic. It was everything Burton's Batman was, but without all the gothic gingerbread.

[mike626]

Yeah, there's going to be some SPOILERS (d'uh)

http://www.fremto.com/guanoshovel/pictures/batmanbeginsbiglogo.jpg

Alright, here we go...


I think it was a great movie. I also read the screenplay and I knew it was gonna be a good flim.Sadly,comicbook movies will always have some nit-picking fanboy crying about what was wrong simply becuase it does not fit in with their idea of the comic-book.

[HomerJay]

Bat-Mania will wane down with the upcoming release of the Fantastic Four film, cooler heads will prevail and the realization will settle in that Batman Begins situates itself somewhere in between Daredevil and The Punisher where super-hero motion pictures are concerned.

I will honor Tom's decree and not say what I think of this statement.

Read Darkseid's review again, but make everything the exact opposite of what he says. Then you'll have my review.

[bjtrdff]

I'm very suprised so many people are lukewarm or worse towards it. i loved it, and I don't see what else could be done to make it a substantially better batman movie.

[gschilljr]

I just got back from seeing it. I think Bob Kane would be pleased with this. It was truly much better than I expected. I definetly want to see it again. I really liked the DC opening. I hope this will be the launching pad that Constatine should have been for DC properties.

[kalorama]

Well since The Punisher was a "flop" which had a decent box office and phenomenal DVD sales and a great videogame that was a huge hit as well, and the DVD sales were enough to put a sequel into production, I think that you have no idea about what you're speaking about.

The box office on Punisher were far from "phenomenal." If they were, then there wouldn't be talk about doing the sequel as a direct-to-video production.

The X-Men were not household names? What are you smoking? They have been ever since I've been born, which was in 1980. Videogames, cartoons, etc.

Born in 1980? Well, believe it or not, there was a world before 1980 and large numbers of the people in that world had never heard of the X-Men prior to the movie. As for the video games and cartoons, who do you think made up the primary consumer audience for those things?

Come on back to reality.

I never left. but anytime you want to drop in, I'm holding a seat for you.


As for Batman Begins ... it was even better the second time around.

[gketter]

I'm very suprised so many people are lukewarm or worse towards it. i loved it, and I don't see what else could be done to make it a substantially better batman movie.

coming from this board, i'm really not surprised. Everything here is always too over critiqued and torn apart I wonder at times if anyone really enjoys their hobby.

I'm a big batman fan, and this movie was Awesome. They got it right on every major key component of the character. And the re-imaging portions of the character offered up a cool fresh look at a character we all know and love. Far better than any other live action batman (the Animated show is also greatness so its hard to compare the two).

Again. Awesome Awesome movie. Go see it!

[someone777]

What's to say. I LOVE it!!!

[Misha]

I normally sit over on the marvel board but am a bit of a DC fan (mainly Batman. and Green Lantern).

I really liked it. I won't say its the best superhero flick I've ever seen becasue nothing has yet to topple Superman from that spot but it really was close.

My only real sore spot (and I know its been mentioned) was the "Why do we fall down?" device repeated. Its like they were trying to hit us over the head with it.

Otherwise, a fantastic bit of film that was worth my $8. Strangest thing was that it really felt like so much more than a Comic Book adaptation. The atmosphere was really something great.

[jetter_cheeze]

Bale fit this Bat-interpretation. Keaton was good with Burton, and Kilmer was best for Shumacher. No other actor who previously played Batman could have pulled off what Bale did.

I thought the way they brought Scarecrow into the story is a little weak, but Cillian Murphy made me believe the role with how he could switch between resembling sanity to slightly off kilter. And you know Ra's will be back.

I liked how Gorden's character was porformed. We don't get much of his background, but i hope that is something they get into in a sequel.

The last scene with the joker card....priceless.

I totally got all Year One when Bats pulled the device from his shoe so he could "call for back-up."

This has been one of my favorite comic book adapted movies. Now if only the comics could understand that we need to see more Bruce Wayne and less Batman...

[Rugal 3:16]

IMO slightly better than spider-man.

[noodleboy]

I saw it last night and thought it was phenomenal.

Not only did it cater to the mainstream, but it subtlely catered to the comic people.
I mean they even included Mr. Zsasz which was awesome for the comic reader. And when the Asylum doors were opened I know every comic fan perked up to try and get a glimpse of who would come out...even though the ending would explain why we didn't see any of Batman's Rogue's.

Overall, it was done top-notch. Casting was pretty much spot on, with the Scarecrow and Jim Gordon being the best. Bale delivered a great performance as Bruce/Bats, he should get even better in the next film if you go by being more comfortable with the role. I also liked the opening DC Logo sequence, the new logo looks good on the big screen.

[hotrodimus]

i thought i had good casting but i really felt that the movie lacked some ...*oomph* i dunno but something was just really lacking..

i give it really just a 3/5

[LukeRed5]

This is the best Batman movie hands down. I don't know how anyone can complain about this movie. Can't wait for the sequel.

[Boomstick King]

coming from this board, i'm really not surprised. Everything here is always too over critiqued and torn apart I wonder at times if anyone really enjoys their hobby.

I'm a big batman fan, and this movie was Awesome. They got it right on every major key component of the character. And the re-imaging portions of the character offered up a cool fresh look at a character we all know and love. Far better than any other live action batman (the Animated show is also greatness so its hard to compare the two).

Again. Awesome Awesome movie. Go see it!

I agree completely. I only hope the next movie introduces Dent as the new DA.

[karaokefanboy]

I don't believe anyone would have anything negative to say about this movie. Consider this: In "Batman Begins," Bruce Wayne is orphaned by a scumbag named Joe Chill, trains abroad for years, and returns to Gotham to don the mantle of the Batman so he can combat organized crime like the Falcone mob and freakish super-villainy like Ra's Al Ghul and the Scarecrow. What about that statement isn't true about the film AND the comics that inspired it? Sans the "freakish villainy" part, could this statement describe the previous films? 'Fraid not. The talk of fear and symbols elevated this film to mythic proportions just as talk of responsibility and selflessness gave Spider-man that iconic boost.

I was initially disappointed at the idea of using a Bat-suit that looked like something from the previous films, but Goyer did a decent job explaining how each element plays a role in Batman's nightly crusade, from the gloves to his cape. Yeah, Katie Holmes was a little blah, but her character's passion clashes with Bruce's loss of faith in the legal system at the beginning of the film. She's the only one that gets to hit Batman and get away with it, you know! Yeah, I was disappointed with Bruce's inability to keep his secret, but consider this: Rachel's name was inspired by the Reaper's daughter in Year Two (and maybe even as an aspect of her character). At the end of the Year Two sequal "Full Circle," Batman says something to Rachel that Bruce had mentioned earlier -- just like in "Begins." Coincidence?

Oh, Goyer, thanks for making the Waynes likeable people. Some comics depict Thomas Wayne as a freakin' bastard. Liking them makes their death all the more tragic.

Liam didn't play a good Ra's at the beginning of the film because he was playing Ra's trying NOT to play Ra's. You can see a glimmer of his true nature when Bruce turns down his offer in the temple. Like Norman was a presence in "Spider-man 2," I'd like to see some of the League of Shadows appear in the sequal, implying that Ra's was resurrected somewhere. He may have died in that trainwreck, but what if his body was quickly recovered and salvaged in a Lazarus Pit? Hints in the sequal could prep us for the third installment, which they could call "Batman: Resurrection" or something.

I live in Southern California, so when I saw the helicopter cam on the Batmobile during that chase, I felt like was watching the 11 o'clock news. Nice touch. And the Joker card at the end -- this is what I was waiting for. An actor that actually LOOKS like Gordon, standing by the Bat-signal with Batman, talking shop. Very rewarding.

I have a more extensive review on my website, but I wanted to respond to some of the threads here. I'm going to see this flick a few times in the theater before I buy every version of the DVD they release. I want to support this direction of the franchise. It's the closest we'll ever get to faithfulness -- because it IS.

Russ
www.geocities.com/geeklyweekly

[LukeRed5]

Joker will obviously be in the second film. Harvey could be introduced as the new DA with Rachel's boss being murdered. Harvey could then return as Two-Face in the third. Robin will probably be introduced as well. With the Joker in the second film, maybe their could be a love triangle with Harley Quinn, the Joker, and Batman. Harley's in love with Bats, he rejects her, she falls for Joker and they take on the Bat together.

[Naldo]

I'm really at a loss to understand Darkseid's criticism of this movie.

What everyone needs to remember is that movies aren't made for the few thousand hardcore Batman aficionados around the country/world. They're made to make money, and lots of it. As a result these films have to have a broader appeal. I'd never, in my wildest imagination go into a film based upon a comic book and expect everything to be exactly the way I think it should be.

I went to see this movie to be entertained and I've gotta say I had the crap entertained outta me. This was a terrific film.

It was obvious that as much as possible was done to make everything that happened possible in a world/hero without super powers. Tiny bits of good humor, some serious, SERIOUS attention to art direction.

I'm glad I went to see it before taking my 8 year old. I think parts were probably a bit too scary for him.

From start to finish I was just delighted, the music was great, the sound was amazing. Christian Bale was terrific, projecting the anger/guilt/lost path feelings in the beginning. This Batman is one serious pissed-off mo-fo.

Some chills and thrills and very cool gadgets. Plus our good friend Rutger as the non-villain dick head.

I loved every minute of this movie, I could have sat through it again immediately after the credits were done. It's hard to believe it came out of Warner Bros.

It gives me great hopes for the two contracted sequels and also a boost in hope for Superman.

[EDmanwalking]

There's way too much nitpicking going on in this thread...

I got myself ready by watching some of TAS, then at half 8 I watched Sin City (excellent!) followed by BB at 00.35. I was the first one to enter the screening room for the first premiere in my county!!! I feel so proud.

Me and my friends came out of Sin City thinking wow BB is gonna have to be incredible to top that. We kept asking staff about BB and they responded with "it's f**king brilliant". You can ask people their opinions but you can't really take their word for it unless you see it for yourself. And boy...

I absolutely loved this movie. I feel right now that we've gone through too many pathetic incarnations of Batman to start nitpicking with this, the most accurate and satisfying to date. I do honestly think it is better than the original Batman film. The casting was perfect, the actors filled their character's roles so well, and yes, I think Katie Holmes was necessary. As someone said before (sorry, I'm too lazy to go back and quote!), she was portrayed as more of a close childhood friend and the feelings came to the surface at the very end.

My friend said that when you see his parents die each time in different versions it can get tiresome, but this one meant a lot due to the fact that they'd built up the relationship between Bruce and his father for a good ten minutes before the alley scene. Everything in this film was executed brilliantly, and I have to give extra praise to Cilian Murphy. His performance as Scarecrow was genuinely creepy!

Face it guys if there was ever a film to get the public into Batman, to accept it with open arms after the travesty that was Batman and Robin...it's this film. And the final scene has me really pumped for the sequel. I thought wow it's gonna be hard to top Jack Nicholson as the Joker, and then I just read on the CBR front page that the front runner for the role in the sequel is none other than Mark Hamill. :D

Best comic book movie so far. Period.

IMO of course.

[boy wonder]

I loved every minute of this movie, I could have sat through it again immediately after the credits were done. It's hard to believe it came out of Warner Bros.
Zing!

Anyway, this movie is awesome. Awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome! I plan to see it several more times. The scene where Batman is "interrogating" a thug from the rooftops... my jaw dropped. This is one hardcore Batman. This is what these movies have needed.

Best Batman movie... ever.

[TheShamus]

I went and watched this movie last night and loved it! Bale was great, especially at playing up the playboy aspect. I can certainly respect a person's right to their opinion, but saying this movie is in Daredevil/Punisher country is like saying that Disney World is similair to a carnival.

What impressed me the most is Nolan taking a realistic approach to the character. Batman was flesh and blood and I understood his motivations. I also was pleased to find a logical explanation behind the equipment he carries.

I also giggled like a little girl at the very last scene with Gordon and all that it implies.

[kalorama]

I thought wow it's gonna be hard to top Jack Nicholson as the Joker, and then I just read on the CBR front page that the front runner for the role in the sequel is none other than Mark Hamill.

I'd take that with a big grain of salt. Since the next movie probably won't even begin preproduction for at least 2 years, there's almost certainly no real frontrunner for any roles at this point. And it's unlikely that Hammill, a guy whose career has been in dry dock since the original Star Wars, would get first crack at such a plum role. He was great as the voice of the animated Joker, but I'm pretty sure that won't carry much weight when casting time for the next movie comes around. Look for someone much younger with a much bigger name.

[EDmanwalking]

Mmm...salt.

Does anyone have a recent pic of Mark Hamill? I wanna put his face next to the Joker's and sit there pondering for a good hour in dim light. I really don't have anything better to do.

[pesmerga316]

Best Batman movie and best movie in general Ive seen in a long time freaking amazing I need to see it again this weekend or something and other then Batman and Green Lantern I really can't stand DC but this made me maybe wanna give some things more of a look

[1HELLBOY]

Yeah, Mark Hamill is and looks pretty old. Now, what would be good is to do what they did in that Birds of Prey pilot tv show. Have one actor that looks like the Joker, and have Mark Hamill do the voice-over for The Joker. That would be awesome.

[cactusmaac]

Yeah, there's going to be some SPOILERS (d'uh)



After the gauche bastardization of this beloved character by Tim Burton ([I]he even admitted he has never read a Batman comic)

Incorrect. He'd read DKR and Killing Joke also I think.


For somebody whose credit list includes such ‘gems’ as Kickboxer 2 & Death Warrant, why is he so vaunted within the comic book industry? Trust me folks, David Fincher he ain’t!

Dude had to pay the rent.



Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for Liam Neeson in his role as Henri Ducard (later revealed to be Ra’s Al Ghul). One of the principle reasons as to why the Spider-Man and X-Men films are successful in their transition from comic to film is due to the authenticity that Ian McKellan (Magneto), Willem Dafoe (Green Goblin) & Alfred Molina (Doctor Octavius) conveyed in their roles as the heroes’ nemesis. They were larger than life which in turn made the protagonists shine brighter. For a madman who is at the head of a secret society that emerged at the dawn of civilization, Neeson fails to accentuate the splendour of a leader who would make the likes of Genghis Khan & Attila The Hun tremble at his feet. However, in Neeson’s defence, much of the blame has to be placed upon Goyer’s layman script. The spectators never truly grasp how maniacally dangerous and organized Ra's Al Ghul is supposed to be. More of a grand presence and less stifling dialogue would have went a long way in not making the audience long for a Joker a la Jack Nicholson or a Riddler served by Frank Gorshin.

He's not meant to be. The League of Shadows must have had to select its' leadership very carefully to survive over the centuries. Why would they want a scenery-chewing, catchphrase-spewing bombastic psychopath in charge?

Contrary to what is presented with this film, the character does not always fight the good fight by relying solely on his fists and gadgets. It is his keen mind and predisposition for logic that enables him to stay alive so he can halt those who prey on the weak.

Maybe that's why it's called Batman Begins.


And why is it that every damn Batman film writer must insist on forcing romance into the script? This is friggin’ Batman not a chick flick fer crying out loud!. The men who will see this movie with their date do not have in mind to seize an occasion to liplock during an emotional scene between Bruce Wayne and Rachel Dawes! Not only does Katie Holmes’ pedestrian acting made me convulse into involuntary diarrhoea spasms whenever she appeared on the screen but I have had it with Batman always divulging his secret identity in order to get ‘some’. Bruce Wayne is a handsome billionaire who can have any woman at his side so there is no need for him to reveal that he dresses up as a rabies infested rodent to impress the chicks.

She was far more of an old friend than a love interest. And Bruce wasn't looking to get some poontang, he wanted somebody he respected and liked to know he wasn't just some bon vivant playboy.

[PanzerMega]

Absolutely amazing. Totally succeeded both as an adaptation, and as an overall movie.

I still have a smile on my face.

[celluloid_droid]

I liked it. I liked it a lot. I had complaints, but it's literally impossible to make a comic book movie one hundred percent accurate given the decades of continuity and stuff they have to go through and still be able to make it believable for the audience. An added bonus was seeing all the stuff they filmed in Chicago and saying, "I've been there!"

[Grant]

An added bonus was seeing all the stuff they filmed in Chicago and saying, "I've been there!"

I get a kick out of that when I see the Spider-man movies too.

[Grant]

Yeah, Mark Hamill is and looks pretty old. Now, what would be good is to do what they did in that Birds of Prey pilot tv show. Have one actor that looks like the Joker, and have Mark Hamill do the voice-over for The Joker. That would be awesome.

That would also be a pain in the ass to do. It would be easier to cast someone who looks the part and can do the voice. I think a lot of actors out there can do a cool Joker.

[surferfan23]

Freaking awesome movie!!! The best superhero movie ever!!!!!

[1HELLBOY]

That would also be a pain in the ass to do. It would be easier to cast someone who looks the part and can do the voice. I think a lot of actors out there can do a cool Joker.


Yeah, you may be right. I just visited my comic book movie source site and it said that Warner's has a list of "big name" actors that they want for The Joker. Mark Hamill's name has been casually mentioned due to his succes in the animated show. Lachey Hulme's agent is pushing him to Warner Bros. So is Crispin Glover's.

But what made me worry immensly, was the fact that Robin William's and Adam Sandler's names are on Warner's so-called list. Neither one of those guys could ever be Joker.

[OverMaster]

But what made me worry immensly, was the fact that Robin William's and Adam Sandler's names are on Warner's so-called list. Neither one of those guys could ever be Joker.

I don't think Robin Williams would be interested anyway. He turned down the Riddler role in Batman Forever because he thought it was 'too dark'. His reaction to Joker would be even worse.

Adam Sandler? That guy shouldn't be allowed to even cameo in a Batman villain (I hate Sandler's movies with a burning passion).

[Spike-X]

If Batman fans don't like this Batman, then you just can't satisfy them.

Man knows his fanboys...

[HomerJay]

But what made me worry immensly, was the fact that Robin William's and Adam Sandler's names are on Warner's so-called list. Neither one of those guys could ever be Joker.

Now that Robin Williams has been in some darker stuff (ONE HOUR PHOTO, Nolan's own INSOMNIA) I could actually see him pulling off a more tragic than insane Joker (he's far from the best choice however). Can't really see Sandler pull it off though despite seeing his serious performances.

My first choice is definitely Crispin Glover.

[docbyrd]

The very best movie adaptation of a comic book character ever done. Everything about this movie was done really well and I can't find one thing to complain about. Not my favorite comic book movie because of the character, but by far the most well done.
None of the special effects took me out of the film experience.
None of the events or plot points required so much of a leap that I was taken out of the movie experience.
Batman's inner conflict and and why he won't kill completely made believeable.
Bruce Wayne becoming a facade and Batman the real person the way it should be.
The Ras Al Guhl twist a great surprise and very clever.
Rachel, while flat, was a stronger female character than any other female character in recent comic book movies, save for Aunt Mae.
The tragedy, drama and excitement of the Batman mythos has been completely preserved and enhanced by this film.
That being said, I like X2 and SM2 more because of the characters involved, but this movie was better made.

[Naldo]

Wow Crispin Glover huh? I never even thought of him. But damn, now that I do, I think he could be one hell of a Joker.

[smartalek]

I went to see this opening night, and to my surprise, the theatre was packed. Some people had little kids as young as 5 with them, I wonder how they reacted? During the movie, the whole theatre was silent, completely silent, no one uttered a word to each other. Even during the humourous parts, the theatre was mostly silent. They laughed during one scene though.
spoilers
The newspaper headline at the end
After the movie ended, people started to clap! They really enjoyed the movie, as did I. I hardly ever go to movies now where the audience is fully engrossed in the movie. Audiences are so jaded and cynical these days. Especially with over the top type computer effects. As for what I thought of the movie, I thought it was brilliant. I am a big fan of Hong Kong cinema, so I usually hate it when the director zooms in and shakes the camera so we can't see the action, yet I didn't even care about that in this instance. The movie brings you into Bruce Wayne's world and you really root for him.

[metr0man]

this movie was friggen awesome. 9/10, i cant wait to see it again. My only complaint is the first 15 minutes or so were strangely underwhelming, especially the murder of the parents, but it picked up leading up to the "hearing" of Joe Chill.

[watchinginkdry]

I thought the first half was lacking, but a lot of that was cleared up by the revelation that THAT is not Ra's al Ghul, THAT is. Also a bit proud of myself, since I spent the whole Iceland sequence disappointed and thinking "That is so not Ra's al Ghul." Both Caine and Freeman were absolutely perfect, and in a surprising reversal, Bale was better as Wayne than as Batman. Scarecrow was kinda surprisingly unscary, which may or may not be related to dude having the prettiest face I've seen onscreen since Orlando Bloom. Katie was less obtrusive than I expected her to be, and Falcone was awesome in the scene where Bruce goes to his diner in his student-haircut high dudgeon.

Anybody know what the current state of the next one is?

[Grant]

I don't think Robin Williams would be interested anyway. He turned down the Riddler role in Batman Forever because he thought it was 'too dark'. His reaction to Joker would be even worse.

Actually heard this story on IMDB...

According to a Playboy interview with Robin Williams, Jack Nicholson was the offered the role of Joker first. When Nicholson kept delaying his answer, Williams was offered the role. The producers immediately turned around and informed Nicholson that Williams was considering the offer, and Nicholson accepted. Williams has remained bitter about being "used as bait".

Robin Williams was approached for the role of the Riddler, but he refused to consider the role unless Warner Bros. apologized for its previous behavior in casting the Joker.

[Grant]

Anybody know what the current state of the next one is?

They are watching the Box Office so they can decide if there will be a next one.

[pmpknface]

They are watching the Box Office so they can decide if there will be a next one.

But the major characters have signed on for 2 or 3 films. :)

[literally exaggerated]

Saw it, and I fucking loved it. This is how Batman should be, the best Batman I've seen in a long time, and that includes comics. Serious, has some issues, scary as hell when he needs to be, but most definitely one of the good guys.

As has been said, with the exception of Katie Holmes, the entire first half was great, the cast nailed all their roles and the villains were done extremely well. Christian Bale makes the best Bruce Wayne ever, and a pretty good Batman to boot. Michael Caine nailed the perfect mixture of comedy, resourcefulness, propriety and emotional support as Alfred. Morgan Freeman is never bad playing Morgan Freeman, which he did here. Loved Jim Gordon. Liam Neeson made a pretty good R'as and Cillian Murphy did for Crane what Elijah Wood did for Kevin in Sin City, make him as scary as he should be.

Towards the end the action got a little much, but it still beat the shit outta the second half of Spiderman.

Gotham was amazing. Felt dark and real, as it should.

Still, my favorite parts by far were those related to the creation of Batman. Not just his training and weaponry, but his ideas, the explanation never given before in a movie of why he dresses like a Bat and does all of that. My friends who have never read a Batman comic came out of it talking about how they finally got it, and that is awesome.

[Grant]

But the major characters have signed on for 2 or 3 films. :)

I think George Clooney was too ;)

[PatrickG]

Supposedly, one of Robin Williams' lifelong goals was to be a Bat-villain and he's stayed in touch with WB for any openings that pop up. Some kind of deal he has in place where he'll do it whenever the part is right.

He was on the list for Scarecrow, along with Jeff Goldblum, had Batman V gone ahead.

I think, at this point, if I were the studio, I'd be willing to script a Mad Hatter role for him if he was willing to play it fairly straight for most of the film.

It would be nice stunt casting with his history fantastic/childlike characters and I think with forty-five minutes in hair and make-up, he'd be an epiphany for the role.

[kalorama]

Joker needs to be played by a lean, physically active, athletic actor. They seem to be skewing this younger, and Williams wouldn't be a good fit. Plus his hammy, scenery chewing style would be too reminiscent of the Schumacher films. I think they'll go for someone who can not only do the manic, crazy stuff, but can also do the darker edged, quietly scary aspects of the character.

Jude Law? Ralph Fiennes? Brad Pitt?!

[PatrickG]

I'm thinking Johnny Depp still.

Possibly Jude Law.

OR... if they want to go a route that would tick off fans everywhere and surprise them with how good it is in theatres... (don't hit me) ... John Cusack.

I think they have to sell people that this is an average man who fell from grace and into psychotic insanity when his wife died.

So they need a romantic comedy lead-type actor who has the range to be frickin' nuts.

Cusack would be inspired stunt casting.

I can imagine the "one bad day" flashback now that portrayed Joker and his wife as this perfect couple in a quirky romantic comedy and then, one day, Cusack finds her dead in a bathtub.

It has the appropriate sting then.

[kalorama]

I hadn't thought of Depp. He'd be a great choice. I like Cusack as an actor, but he's a little too everyman. I don't see him projecting that air of twisted menace the Joker needs.

[Murrocko]

How does the Joker become ...... The Joker? It's not really how the first movie says, right?

[PatrickG]

We've never really seen the truth except that he falls into a chemical vat.

He's used multiple stories as convenient. He's even claimed not to be a U.S. citizen. He has no fingerprints or dental records on file. The truth is unknown.

But the popular story is that he was a struggling stand-up comic with a pregnant wife who got forced into crime. When he tried to back out, he found the criminals left his dead wife in the bathtub and that falling into the chemicals had bleached his skin and turned his hair green.

So he snapped, put on her lipstick and went on a homocidal spree with poison he forced his cousin, a chemist, to make.

However, there is evidence he has chemistry background as well.

Nothing's clear and the Joker has tried to keep it muddy.

[PatrickG]

I will add that there is SOME evidence for the stand-up story being closest to true though.

His son is out there (which is being explored in GOTHAM KNIGHTS) and he once kidnapped critics who panned his stand-up act.

[Gaz]

We've never really seen the truth except that he falls into a chemical vat.

He's used multiple stories as convenient. He's even claimed not to be a U.S. citizen. He has no fingerprints or dental records on file. The truth is unknown.

But the popular story is that he was a struggling stand-up comic with a pregnant wife who got forced into crime. When he tried to back out, he found the criminals left his dead wife in the bathtub and that falling into the chemicals had bleached his skin and turned his hair green.

So he snapped, put on her lipstick and went on a homocidal spree with poison he forced his cousin, a chemist, to make.

However, there is evidence he has chemistry background as well.

Nothing's clear and the Joker has tried to keep it muddy.

Actually, it's been implied that even he's not entirely sure.

[1HELLBOY]

Yeah, the Joker could say he was made one way, and then turn around and say it happened a whole nother way. He likes to screw with everybody's heads. A lot.

I've mentioned on a cast the villains thread on here that Johnny Depp would make a great Harvey Dent/Two-Face.

I like Robin Williams, but I really don't think he could pull off Joker. Sandler would make me want to vomit in the theater if he was cast as the Joker. Crispin Glover has proven to me in Charlie's Angels as The Thin Man and Willard as the title character that he could play histerically insane(what I like to call Joker's personallity). Glover even has the thin, guanty look for The Joker. Most people even complained that Jach Nicholson was a little too pudgy to play the Joker, but he NAILED the character. Glover is the perfect choice for the Joker. Jude Law would be too charismatic and charming to play someone like Joker. In my opinion, of course, but my opinion also states that Glover would be the perfect Joker.

[OverMaster]

Supposedly, one of Robin Williams' lifelong goals was to be a Bat-villain and he's stayed in touch with WB for any openings that pop up. Some kind of deal he has in place where he'll do it whenever the part is right.

He was on the list for Scarecrow, along with Jeff Goldblum, had Batman V gone ahead.

I think, at this point, if I were the studio, I'd be willing to script a Mad Hatter role for him if he was willing to play it fairly straight for most of the film.

It would be nice stunt casting with his history fantastic/childlike characters and I think with forty-five minutes in hair and make-up, he'd be an epiphany for the role.

Hmm. Now that I think about it, Robin Williams might be a decent choice for the role of the Ventriloquist.

[xowainx]

I think Tim Roth or Steve Buscemi would do well as the joker.. I think both could pull off the manicness without turning it into an over-the-top farce, while still keeping the sense of tragedy about the character.

[Spike-X]

Actually, it's been implied that even he's not entirely sure.
"Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another..."

- The Killing Joke

[Spike-X]

Hmm. Now that I think about it, Robin Williams might be a decent choice for the role of the Ventriloquist.
I can see that.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Hmm. Now that I think about it, Robin Williams might be a decent choice for the role of the Ventriloquist.
In my mind, the perfect actor for the Ventriloquist is William H. Macy.

[kalorama]

In my mind, the perfect actor for the Ventriloquist is William H. Macy.

Before Batman Begins, I'd thought that Macy would have been a perfect Jim GOrdon.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Before Batman Begins, I'd thought that Macy would have been a perfect Jim GOrdon.
He's such a great actor that he could easily have played any of these roles. Even Alfred or the Scarecrow, actually. But I don't know. In my own mind's eye, I've always seen William H. Macy as the Ventriloquist, and Paul Giamatti as the Mad Hatter.

[EZMOHR]

Just saw it. First off, this is far and away the best Batman movie we've ever had. It was all I wanted in a Bat film. Hell, there was even a little detective work in it too. I am no longer a Christian Bale dis-believer. He is Bruce Wayne, and he is Batman. Sorry Keaton. I thought Liam Neeson did an ample job as Ducard/Ra's. I think why some people did not like this movie is because it accomplished something not many Bat-projects have done before...It made a Batman movie about Batman.

Cillian Murphy as Scarecrow was so cool. I'm glad they didn't go overly too much with him. Hopefully he will be in a sequel. And the Joker thing at the end was pretty cool. The best Bat movie ever if I must say so.

[EZMOHR]

Oh, and I think Zach Braff should play The Joker.

[soda]

saw it yesterday, absolutely loved it!

IMHO, the six best comic book movies of all time:

Spiderman
Spiderman 2
X2
Superman 2 (any movie that has the line "kneel before Zod!" in it is automatically the coolest darn thing ever)
batman begins
sin city

If I had to pick a favorite, I would say that either Batman Begins or Spiderman 2 gets the gold star as #1 all-time (Sin city is every bit as good a movie, but it's just different, and I'm partial to superheroes). IMHO, the tim burton batman movie (the first one) is one level down, and on the same level as, say, the original superman and the original x-men movie. I would say that Batman returns is one level further down and is in the same boat as the likes of Daredevil, Punisher and Hulk. Just my opinion.

All the problems I have with this movie are minor nit-picks, but I'll post them anyway, because that's what people like us do. If you think I'm being a "doubting thomas" just remember that I rank Batman begins and spiderman 2 as the best comic movies of all time, so it's better than everyone else. My nit-picks:

-flass was butchered. Like Bane, Mr. Freeze and Poison ivy from B&R level butchered. Nolan used Harvey Bullock's persona and body type, and mixed in flass' name and crookedness. I felt bad for both Bullock and Flass during the movie.

-falcone was butchered. Like the riddler in BF level butchered. That's not the falcone from long halloween, that's rupert thorne with falcone's name. Falcone will be in the sequels, as Harvey dent will be in the next movie, making the long halloween an great subplot, I hope they do a better job with him next time.

-I disliked the fact that Ra's told bruce, when he was burning down wayne manor, that the scarecrow was in on the scheme because he thought they were going to hold the city for ransom. The scarecrow is like the Joker, neither cares about money, they're both artists for the sake of art. The only motivation that the scarecrow needs is the idea that he's going to get to scare everyone in the city, that's the root of his psychosis.

There were a few others, times when Batman was a bit out of character, but they weren't Brain Azerello-Tom Defalco-andy liebermann bad, so I won't bore you with them. As far as acting, yeah, it was great, the guys who played Lucius Fox, Jim Gordon, Alfred, and Ra's all get A++++++++ for performances, those four characters were so dead on, it hurt. (they got some of the details wrong for Ra's, like the pronounciation of his name, but that's not Liam Neeson's fault, what he got so right is the psychology of Ra's character, his uber-social darwinism, and his desire to "restore the natural balance", that was the Ra's we all know and love).

as far as casting for the next one:

Joker - I think you use some technology. Definitely get someone young for the body, but if you think of using anyone else for the voice but Mark Hamill, you're crazy.

Harle - I'd like to see Cameron Diaz get this part. She's a bit old, but she still looks so young, maybe someone younger, but whoever gets it has to have Harle's look and bubbly personality.

Here's why Harle has to be in the next movie. One of the running gags in the Batman universe is the issue of sanity versus insanity, and how Batman and the Joker really aren't all that different. They're both crazy, Batman isn't sane, they're just both different kinds of crazy. Harle is crazy too, but in a third way from batman and the joker. anyway, it's never been that the joker is crazy and batman isn't, because, as harle so deftly illustrates, who has the more sane relationship with women? Batman can't form a permanent relationship with anyone, the Joker has his girl, and he, if nothing else, stays loyal to her. The crazy dude is the one who has the sane relationship, wheres the allegedly sane dude is the one who has the crazy relationships.....

[lead sharp]

Just seen this movie.

Happy bunny.

Is it a perfect Batman movie? No. I don't mind, know why? If they'd made the perfect Batman movie the people who made this one wouldn't need to make any more and that would be a crime against movies.

[protonik]

Where did you read that Burton hadn't read a Batman comic? It is well known that he was a Batman fan as a child and that the Frank Miller Batman work was a HUGE influence on the original 2 movies. In fact Burton had produced a script a few years before that essentially boiled down to the first film and second film and pieces of the third film (that Burton produced and had his fingers all over, which can be seen in its consistent quality and the fact that it was a success), in one script. When they began work on the first film they took basically the first third of the script and turned it into a movie all its own.

Jason

[protonik]

By what definition is Blade not "mainstream"? He's an established part of the Marvel Universe.


That may well be but Blade was an obscure character that had up to the point that the film had been option in the early 90s, very little exposure in over ten years, if any. After the option and script were written for the film his first mass audience exposure was on the Spider-man cartoon which tried out the character and his supporting cast before launching the film version. Even then NOBODY really outside of fans of the show or comics KNEW who Blade was... Blade the movie succeeded on a decent script, decent acting and good word of mouth more so than the character of Blade which had little to do with the actual comic book version of the character.

Jason

[protonik]

The Punisher and the X-Men were hardly household names to noncomics fans prior to their film incarnations. What would make you think that a wide audience of people not familiar with comics would have any idea who the Punisher was? Outside of the comics (and the minor bad movie cult status of the Dolph Lundgren movie) the Punisher had no pop culture presence outside of comics. Given that the recent film was a flop, he probably still doesn't.

The X-Men were indeed household names thanks to not only a well regarded animated series but also a successful toyline and being the BIGGEST title of the 1990s comic book. The comic itself was named THE comic of the 80s by various entertainment venues when that decade changed over including MTv. As far as the Punisher is concerned, even he was a well known character because he has an Iconic imagery and appeals to fans of COnan the Barbarian and the ilk. The Punisher as an image, a symbol is well known, even before the movie which most definitely wasn't a flop when you look at its budget and its take and DVD sales and additional merchandising, it was released by an independent film company and did up to expectations and a sequel is going to be made. To say Punisher had no Pop Culture reference outside of comics is to ignore not only his appearance on the Spider-man animated series but also the comic market boom of the 90s of which the Punisher was one of the characters riding the crest of that wave along with Spider-man and the X-Men and stand bys like Batman and Superman!!!! We are talking about a character who started out as a two bit Spider-man villain and turned out to be strong enough of a character to carry not just a single miniseres but several one shots, miniseries AND THREE regular series which is an accomplishment that only iconic characters like Spider-man, Batman, SUperman and the X-Men have been able to achieve!!! Not to mention T-shirt sales etc. I would say that the Punisher is just on the edge of those iconic comic characters that are DC's Trinity, Spidey, Hulk, Captain America, and WOlverine!

Jason

[Kirayoshi]

I don't think Robin Williams would be interested anyway. He turned down the Riddler role in Batman Forever because he thought it was 'too dark'. His reaction to Joker would be even worse.

Robin Williams thought the Riddler was too dark?

The same Robin Williams who played psychopaths in Insomnia and One-Hour Photo?

Just checking.

Me, I'd have cast John Malkovich as the Riddler. As it is, we had dueling halves of the Joker persona between Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face and Jim Carrey's Riddler. Proving that two half-Jokers don't make a whole Joker.

For the record, I saw Batman Begins and was hugely impressed. While I enjoyed the first 45 minutes or so, I wasn't sure about Ken Watenabe as Ra's. Mainly because I thought Ra's Al Ghul was an Arabic name and the character was Asian.
Before Wayne blew up the temple I was thinking "Liam Neeson would make a better Ra's than Watenabe." Then when Liam showed up at Wayne's party and revealed that he was Ra's, it was like when I realized that Verbal Kint was Keyser Sose! His beard even looked more like Ra's. Kind of reminded me of David Warner's voice job as Ra's in the '90s cartoon, and that's meant as a compliment; I loved that Ra's.

If I didn't know going in that that was Gary Oldman as Jim Gordon, I wouldn't have guessed it. He inhabited the role in a seldom-used underplaying of the part. Well done with him.

Kate Hudson, well, she was more tolerable in the damsel-in-distress role than Kim Basinger. And Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine were perfect. Although I wonder if Fox knows about Bruce's night-job. I mean, he did ask if that Tumbler vehicle came in black, right? Should be a hint!

Dunno about Mark Hammill as Joker. I'd like to see Hugo Weaving in the role. Stick him in Agent Smith-mode and he'd be a perfect match. And maybe they can link his origins to the fear-toxin that Scarecrow and Ra's released.

[Drew Geraci]

My two cents?

Best Batman movie ever. Just as good as the first Spider-Man!

Christian Bale and the rest of the cast was top-notch, IMHO.

Nowadays, everybody's an armchair movie director. Everybody feels compelled to say: "I would'a done this and I would'a done that". I went in with no expectations and came out amped up on excitement.

I remember how the 1989 Batman, while good, left me flat, too absorbed in it's self-importance. Hopefully the days of Batman movies being overindulgent director playgrounds with 'star vehicle' roles are over. Batman Begins RULES!!!

That's all. Anything else would be nitpicking, and I'm still on a natural high from seeing it Thursday. :D :D :D

Wanna bust my chops about this? Visit my own message board at www.drewgeraci.com

www.drewgeraci.com

[Spike-X]

I wonder if Fox knows about Bruce's night-job.

I have a sneaking suspicion that he may have a vague idea...

[ragnarok_2012]

I have a sneaking suspicion that he may have a vague idea...

No.

Bruce's "spelunking" cover story has clearly bamboozled Lucius :D

[shaderhacker]

This movie is unprecedented. It beats every single comic hero movie ever to come out! The crowd clapped at the end of the movie over here as well. Simply an excellent story of Batman. I also have nothing to complain about.

I was so excited, I went out and bought all the Batman Hush issues.:)

-M

[kalorama]

The X-Men were indeed household names thanks to not only a well regarded animated series but also a successful toyline and being the BIGGEST title of the 1990s comic book. The comic itself was named THE comic of the 80s by various entertainment venues when that decade changed over including MTv. As far as the Punisher is concerned, even he was a well known character because he has an Iconic imagery and appeals to fans of COnan the Barbarian and the ilk. The Punisher as an image, a symbol is well known, even before the movie which most definitely wasn't a flop when you look at its budget and its take and DVD sales and additional merchandising, it was released by an independent film company and did up to expectations and a sequel is going to be made. To say Punisher had no Pop Culture reference outside of comics is to ignore not only his appearance on the Spider-man animated series but also the comic market boom of the 90s of which the Punisher was one of the characters riding the crest of that wave along with Spider-man and the X-Men and stand bys like Batman and Superman!!!! We are talking about a character who started out as a two bit Spider-man villain and turned out to be strong enough of a character to carry not just a single miniseres but several one shots, miniseries AND THREE regular series which is an accomplishment that only iconic characters like Spider-man, Batman, SUperman and the X-Men have been able to achieve!!! Not to mention T-shirt sales etc. I would say that the Punisher is just on the edge of those iconic comic characters that are DC's Trinity, Spidey, Hulk, Captain America, and WOlverine!

Jason


The vast majority of those elements you cited meant absolutely nothing to anyone who didn't read comics. (Why would a non-comics fan know or care how many copies X-Men sold or how many monthly titles the Punisher appeared in?)

[kalorama]

He's such a great actor that he could easily have played any of these roles. Even Alfred or the Scarecrow, actually. But I don't know. In my own mind's eye, I've always seen William H. Macy as the Ventriloquist, and Paul Giamatti as the Mad Hatter.

Giamatti was born to play the Penguin.

[Dante]

Has anyone heard anything about sequels to Batman Begins.

I just watched it tonight and I thought that they were simply setting up the Tim Burton film, by mentioning the Joker. But from what I've heard on the forum, it sounds like they may remake it? My wife concures that they should. I think it would be a great money maker for WB and DC.

Anyway... loved the film. So many good moments. I went with a friend and my wife, both of whom don't understand comic books, but like movies. They said it was probably one of the best films they have ever seen.

Now while extreme Batman junkies may have been dissappointed in certain aspects of this film (the lack of detective skills for instance) you have to remember that ultimately this was a money making venture. The movie was made to appeal to all audiences, not only use comic book nerds.

I thought it was wonderful. And I concure with the earlier comment on the soundtrack. Wonderful... I think I may go out and purchase it.

Dante

[Alan2099]

I liked it, it wasn't the best comic movie, evermade, but it was enjoyable and quite solid overall. Bale did a good job as Bruce. For that matter, most of the casting was well done. It was also nice seeing Mr. ZZaxx or whatever the guy's name is appear. Seeing Gordon in the batmobile was also quite itnresting.

Still there are some glaring problems with it.

The movie seemed like it took way to long to get started.

Taking away the Immortality from Ra's al Ghul is like making a Joker that just puts on clown makeup before he commits a crime. It doesn't feel complete.

The action scenes were horribly done. The camera zips and flashes made it almost impossible to follow.

"Why do we fall?" is no "with great power..."

[1HELLBOY]

Has anyone heard anything about sequels to Batman Begins.

I just watched it tonight and I thought that they were simply setting up the Tim Burton film, by mentioning the Joker. But from what I've heard on the forum, it sounds like they may remake it? My wife concures that they should. I think it would be a great money maker for WB and DC.

Anyway... loved the film. So many good moments. I went with a friend and my wife, both of whom don't understand comic books, but like movies. They said it was probably one of the best films they have ever seen.

Now while extreme Batman junkies may have been dissappointed in certain aspects of this film (the lack of detective skills for instance) you have to remember that ultimately this was a money making venture. The movie was made to appeal to all audiences, not only use comic book nerds.

I thought it was wonderful. And I concure with the earlier comment on the soundtrack. Wonderful... I think I may go out and purchase it.

Dante


There's going to be a trilogy. The second movie will have the Joker(obviously) and Batman will enlist the aid of Harvey Dent. Then the third movie will be Joker on trial. Which then The Joker will throw acid into Harvey's face thus creating Two-Face. I am praying to the Lord all mighty that Chris Nolan and David Goyer stay on these movies. Please God let them stay.

[1HELLBOY]

"Why do we fall?" is no "with great power..."


It's not really meant to be. "With great power..." is what DEFINES how Spider-Man will lead the rest of his life. The death of his Uncle triggered that.

"Why do we fall?" is more of a regular father/son movie kind of line. Doesn't really mean anything, other than it's a message to never give up. Not defining, just a pick yourself up and go line.

[Spike-X]

Taking away the Immortality from Ra's al Ghul is like making a Joker that just puts on clown makeup before he commits a crime. It doesn't feel complete.

Where did they say he wasn't immortal? It sounded to me like they were hinting exactly the opposite.

"Why do we fall?" is no "with great power..."

"With great wealth comes great responsibility"?

[kmeyers]

Where did they say he wasn't immortal? It sounded to me like they were hinting exactly the opposite.

Neeson actually does say that Ra's is immortal...I forget the exact wording, but it's one of the first things he says to Bruce when he confronts him at the party....and yeah, for most of the other parts, he was going on about how theyve been doing this for thousands of years. Although that could mean "we" as in, the group, but I think he was there for most, if not all of it through the years.

I just saw it again, and it's so much better knowing that Neeson is really Ra's.

[The Dosadi Experiment]

I was succesful in blocking out much of the hype, I went in virtually clean, having only seen some random images and some expo on the new Batmobile. I didn't even know what the story was going to be about.

And it rocked!

Evil Batman, as in, the Batman Crane sees when he's high on his own poison is the best sequence in the entire movie in my opinion. That's the part that convinced me completely.

Was it perfect?

No, but then again nothing is.

Action scenes in the city were a bit blurry and hard to follow, and there were some leaps of logic that stuck out... you know in that whole "I've just left the theatre and the first thing that came to mind discussing it with my friends was that one thing that really didn't make any sense now that I look back on it..."

Panic-induced Gotham, everybody should fear everything, utter and complete chaos, on the verge of tearing itself apart... but we still see people form groups. ;)

More Scarecrow! I demand more Scarecrow. Ra's I can do wihout, he served his purpose, but Scarecrow, I demand his return in the next movie! He rocked!

If there's one thing that bothers me greatly in these types of movies it's that villains are left with every chance of a return visit in the next movie, but never do. Catwoman is another example, I'm still waiting for Michelle Pfeifer to put that ulta-cool utlra-sexy costume back on, after some heavy cosmetic surgery of course, and prance around on the rooftops of Gotham.

so Scarecrow... come back!

That guy who played Scarecrow... oddly familiar face, eveybody in my local theatre had that sensation... "That Crane fellow... where do I know him from? What did he do before this!?"

[Spike-X]

Did he play the gay guy in that movie with James Van Der Beek that I'm blanking on the name of? The one that tries to kiss the jock and gets punched out?

At first I thought it was Tom Welling, until they referred to him as 'Doctor Crane'.

[kmeyers]

you probably remember Scarecrow(Cillian Murphy) from 28 Days Later.

I didn't realize it, till someone pointed it out to me.

also he was in Cold Mountain, and Girl with a Pearl Earing.

[Spike-X]

I've not seen any of those. And no, he wasn't in The Rules Of Attraction (the movie I was referring to before).

I can't get over how much he looks like Tom Welling, though.

[kmeyers]

I've not seen any of those. And no, he wasn't in The Rules Of Attraction (the movie I was referring to before).

I can't get over how much he looks like Tom Welling, though.
yeah. he definitely looks like Welling.

oddly, he looks a lot like a boss I had when I first moved to L.A. he was a cool guy...but just had a bit of a sinister look to him.

The Scarecrow reminded me of Kevin(elijah wood) from Sin City...which is a very good thing.

[The Joker]

"Batman Begins" was a very enjoyable film to watch. Infact, I would say it's even better than last summer's "Spider-Man 2" which seemed to have enjoyed more positive reviews for some reason.

Not perfect, but without a doubt Nolan's "Batman Begins" is the most DEFINATIVE Batman movie ever. Even topping Burton's "Batman" which was a heavily flawed film, but captured the tortured soul of Wayne for the first time up on the big silver screen.

Bale was great. Holmes was atleast tolarable. Neeson was superb as Ra's. Wattanbe was great as well, for what little screentime he had. Oldman finally brought the REAL James Gordon to life. Caine was Caine, but still a great Alfred. And last but certainly not least, Murphy was a fantastic Scarecrow. And I have to hand it to him, he brought that character to life in much better way than I could ever imagine. Good job.

IMHO, "Batman Begins" is easily in the top 3 of best comic book films of all time. Nolan, Goyer, and Bale.... you have made us proud.

4 stars.

[ronaldo9]

Don't think anyone has mentioned it, but how about Adrien Brody as the Joker. I think he could pull it off, good actor, he's tall and gangly, add the makeup and we could have a really good Joker.

Just my 2 cents.

[Gaz]

I liked it, it wasn't the best comic movie, evermade, but it was enjoyable and quite solid overall. Bale did a good job as Bruce. For that matter, most of the casting was well done. It was also nice seeing Mr. ZZaxx or whatever the guy's name is appear. Seeing Gordon in the batmobile was also quite itnresting.

Still there are some glaring problems with it.

The movie seemed like it took way to long to get started.

Taking away the Immortality from Ra's al Ghul is like making a Joker that just puts on clown makeup before he commits a crime. It doesn't feel complete.

The action scenes were horribly done. The camera zips and flashes made it almost impossible to follow.

"Why do we fall?" is no "with great power..."

The action scenes with the random thugs were supposed to be like that, they don't really know WTH is happening, just that some...thing is attacking.
And Neeson actually says "Ra's al Ghul is immortal, Mr Wayne."

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

Bale was great. Holmes was atleast tolarable. Neeson was superb as Ra's. .
Liam Neeson played Ra's Al Ghul?
I thought Sam Watanabe was cast in that role.

[Corrina]

That guy who played Scarecrow... oddly familiar face, eveybody in my local theatre had that sensation... "That Crane fellow... where do I know him from? What did he do before this!?"

He looked and sounded exactly like a young James Spader to me.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Liam Neeson played Ra's Al Ghul?
I thought Sam Watanabe was cast in that role.
Yeah, he probably meant Ken Watanabe. It must have been a typo or something. Now hurry up and see this movie.

[EZMOHR]

Did he play the gay guy in that movie with James Van Der Beek that I'm blanking on the name of? The one that tries to kiss the jock and gets punched out?

At first I thought it was Tom Welling, until they referred to him as 'Doctor Crane'.


No, the guy that played the gay dude in Laws of Attraction was Ian Sommerhalder from the TV show Lost.

[Steve]

Liam Neeson played Ra's Al Ghul?
I thought Sam Watanabe was cast in that role.
It's Ken Watanabe, not Sam.

And since it's a spoiler thread, I can can tell ya you've been tricked.

[Alan2099]

The action scenes with the random thugs were supposed to be like that, they don't really know WTH is happening, just that some...thing is attacking.
There's other ways to show that they don't know what's going on without trying to give the audiance motion sickness.

[Gaz]

There's other ways to show that they don't know what's going on without trying to give the audiance motion sickness.
Personal taste, I guess. Never bothered me much in Bourne Supremacy either.

[protonik]

For the record, I saw Batman Begins and was hugely impressed. While I enjoyed the first 45 minutes or so, I wasn't sure about Ken Watenabe as Ra's. Mainly because I thought Ra's Al Ghul was an Arabic name and the character was Asian.

Ra's is Asian in the comic books. When he started the travel the world he eventually took on the name Ra's Al Ghul while residing in the middle East. Think about it, he is a descendent of Genghis Khan... how can he be Arabic and a descendant of Ghengis Khan??? Anyway, Denny O'neil intended for Ra's to be of Mongolian descent and because of his age he was known by many names and many faces. Eventually he settled on Ra's Al Ghul.

Jason

[protonik]

The vast majority of those elements you cited meant absolutely nothing to anyone who didn't read comics. (Why would a non-comics fan know or care how many copies X-Men sold or how many monthly titles the Punisher appeared in?)

WHA?!?!?! SOMEONE was buying those comics and it wasn't just comic fans. If you look around a LOT of people have X-Men comics or Conan or Punisher or whatnot, mostly men. The X-Men were INDEED a well known comic book property when the movie came out and the Punisher WAS INDEED a cult figure on the edge of mainstream break through. When there was a newstand distribution comics were very different. Also factor in that the boom of the 90s started in 89 with the first Batman movie and its success. Casual readers started buying Batman comics and that expanded into other territories and here is a GREAT example... my Dad knew who Wolverine was in 1986 because I brought home some toys from the Secret Wars line and he was like "hey, that's Wolverine". Now that is saying something because my dad hated comic books (I used to have so many now key issues until he threw them out like Neal Adams AVengers run etc.) and never paid attention to them.

The X-Men and Punisher were all over the place back in the 90s, you couldn't help but see them.

Jason

[The Joker]

Yeah, he probably meant Ken Watanabe. It must have been a typo or something. Now hurry up and see this movie.

:eek:

Big typo!

Do me a favor, and go see this movie!

You'll be glad you did. :)

[comic_lover]

........will settle in that Batman Begins situates itself somewhere in between Daredevil and The Punisher where super-hero motion pictures are concerned.........A task that is obviously impossible for Goyer and Nolan to accomplish.Just saw it; Darkseid was spot on....and here was my opinion of the Good,the Bad,and the Ugly :

Good : The First Hour of The Movie
Christian Bale as Bruce Wayne and Batman
Gary Oldman as Jim Gordon
Liam Neeson as Ra's Al Ghul
Cillian Murphy as The Scarecrow
Michael Caine as Alfred Pennyworth
The Bad The Second Half of The Movie
and Ugly The Batman's " Cheap Action Figure " Suit
Katie Holmes as a D.A. ? Yeah,right. :rolleyes:
Girlfriend knows Batman is Bruce Wayne..again. :rolleyes:
Romance ? In a Batman movie ? Again ? :rolleyes:
The Dark Knight Detective ? Where ?
Dumbed Down Script for Kids.
Where's the " R " rating ?
Dumbed Down Plot for Kids.
Batman's Over Reliance on " Gadgets.. "
Voice of Batman/Bruce Wayne sounds too alike
Too Many Villians....again.
Obvious Plot Twist
Corny One Liners
Stupid Over The Top Car Chase
Black Greasepaint and No Pale White Slits in the Mask...which makes it look like the the other bat-movies...again.


.................and the verdict ? C
What really killed the movie for me ; We are led to believe Bruce Wayne is a man on a mission,a man who believes he needs to be the best in Mind,Body,and Spirit to get the job done.....yet he shows little detective skills,an over reliance on gadgets,and is cavalier with his identity.Sorry,that's too hollywood for me.Until Sandy C is able to direct a Batman film I sincerely doubt we'll ever get to see a Batman like the comic books.At least we have the Dini cartoon on DVD Sets.It will make money,some fans will like it,( especially action fans ) but me......I say it's not much of a stretch from the 89 movie...and that was..eh.I want a Dark Knight Detective,not Steven Segal in a batsuit in a movie for kids.I suppose this movie is a happy compromise.

[1HELLBOY]

Just saw it; Darkseid was spot on....and here was my opinion of the Good,the Bad,and the Ugly :

Good : The First Hour of The Movie
Christian Bale as Bruce Wayne and Batman
Gary Oldman as Jim Gordon
Liam Neeson as Ra's Al Ghul
Cillian Murphy as The Scarecrow
Michael Caine as Alfred Pennyworth
The Bad The Second Half of The Movie
and Ugly The Batman's " Cheap Action Figure " Suit
Katie Holmes as a D.A. ? Yeah,right. :rolleyes:
Girlfriend knows Batman is Bruce Wayne..again. :rolleyes:
Romance ? In a Batman movie ? Again ? :rolleyes:
The Dark Knight Detective ? Where ?
Dumbed Down Script for Kids.
Where's the " R " rating ?
Dumbed Down Plot for Kids.
Batman's Over Reliance on " Gadgets.. "
Voice of Batman/Bruce Wayne sounds too alike
Too Many Villians....again.
Obvious Plot Twist
Corny One Liners
Stupid Over The Top Car Chase
Black Greasepaint and No Pale White Slits in the Mask...which makes it look like the the other bat-movies...again.


.................and the verdict ? C
What really killed the movie for me ; We are led to believe Bruce Wayne is a man on a mission,a man who believes he needs to be the best in Mind,Body,and Spirit to get the job done.....yet he shows little detective skills,an over reliance on gadgets,and is cavalier with his identity.Sorry,that's too hollywood for me.Until Sandy C is able to direct a Batman film I sincerely doubt we'll ever get to see a Batman like the comic books.At least we have the Dini cartoon on DVD Sets.It will make money,some fans will like it,( especially action fans ) but me......I say it's not much of a stretch from the 89 movie...and that was..eh.I want a Dark Knight Detective,not Steven Segal in a batsuit in a movie for kids.I suppose this movie is a happy compromise.


I am so damn tired of people who say that one of the reasons why they didn't like this movie was becuase he didn't use any detective skills. It's Batman BEGINS. When you BEGIN something, you start from the BEGINNING. The seeds were planted to know that he has been using detective skills. He took the photos of the corrupt judge and Gordon and was obviously trying to figure out something in that scene when he found the bat in the hall. The "cheap, action figure suit" as you so eloquently put it, is made that way for a reason and clearly explained in the movie. It was made for the military. I doubt they'd use SPANDEX in combat. Katie Holmes obviuosly could have been taken or left. Warner Bros wouldn't let them make the movie without a romance plot. Besides, there wasn't much of romance in it. They were childhood best friends. As has been stated further back in the thread. Where, oh where, was this script "dumbed down?" The absence of the R rating is so that kids could see it as well. It's obvious that scenes were cut and that this movie skirted on R. No, there weren't too many villains. There were only two and they bothed meshed in with the story without becoming stupid and pointless, ala Bane in Batman and Robin. Maybe obvious for you, but most people on here and other boards I've been to say that they were completely fooled. What "one-liners" were corny? And if there were, they were nowhere near as corny as the Bat-credit card line: "Never leave the cave without it." There was nothing over the top. The reason it CAN jump rooftops is becuase it's meant that way FOR THE MILITARY. Ravine jumpers to tote cables across wide areas. Again, clearly explained for those who watched the movie. I'm sorry, Greasepaint?? It's spray paint. Greasepaint is what CLOWNS USE! Yeah, and Sandy Collora did the same damn thing with his Batman, NO WHITE SLITS. There was no overreliance on gadgets. He used them when he needed to. Other wise he was just kicking ass. He never told ANYBODY he was Bruce Wayne. Not at any time did Bruce Wayne say to anybody, "I'm Batman." The reason he did that at the end with Rachel, is so she didn't think that Bruce was really who he was pretending to be, that jackass playboy. And if you couldn't see that he DID try to strive to be perfect in mind, body, and spirit, go back and watch the movie three or four more times. You obviously didn't get it.

[comic_lover]

I am so damn tired of people who say that one of the reasons why they didn't like this movie was becuase he didn't use any detective skills. It's Batman BEGINS. When you BEGIN something, you start from the BEGINNING. The "cheap, action figure suit" as you so eloquently put it, is made that way for a reason and clearly explained in the movie. It was made for the military. I doubt they'd use SPANDEX in combat. Katie Holmes obviuosly could have been taken or left. Warner Bros wouldn't let them make the movie without a romance plot. As has been stated further back in the thread. Where, oh where, was this script "dumbed down?" The absence of the R rating is so that kids could see it as well. It's obvious that scenes were cut and that this movie skirted on R. No, there weren't too many villains. There were only two and they bothed meshed in with the story without becoming stupid and pointless, ala Bane in Batman and Robin. Maybe obvious for you, but most people on here and other boards I've been to say that they were completely fooled. What "one-liners" were corny? And if there were, they were nowhere near as corny as the Bat-credit card line: "Never leave the cave without it." There was nothing over the top. The reason it CAN jump rooftops is becuase it's meant that way FOR THE MILITARY. Ravine jumpers to tote cables across wide areas. Again, clearly explained for those who watched the movie. I'm sorry, Greasepaint?? It's spray paint. Greasepaint is what CLOWNS USE! Yeah, and Sandy Collora did the same damn thing with his Batman, NO WHITE SLITS. There was no overreliance on gadgets. He used them when he needed to. Other wise he was just kicking ass. He never told ANYBODY he was Bruce Wayne. Not at any time did Bruce Wayne say to anybody, "I'm Batman." The reason he did that at the end with Rachel, is so she didn't think that Bruce was really who he was pretending to be, that jackass playboy. And if you couldn't see that he DID try to strive to be perfect in mind, body, and spirit, go back and watch the movie three or four more times. You obviously didn't get it. Spoken like a true fanboy.You need to look at the movie more objectively.It wasn't any better or worse than what was done in 89.Considering this is 2005 we have a problem...Spraypaint,greasepaint,same idea.....it looked cheap..and as for the lack of pale eye slits; Sandy was wrong about that.If they really wanted him to look " unearthly ' why not give him white contacts ? Keep that fanboy zeal ; Warner Brothers expects it for the idiotic scripted " Superman Returns " as well. ;)

[Gaz]

Spoken like a true fanboy.You need to look at the movie more objectively.It wasn't any better or worse than what was done in 89.Considering this is 2005 we have a problem...Spraypaint,greasepaint,same difference.....and as for the lack of eye slits Sandy was wrong about that too.If they really wanted him to look " unearthly ' why not give him white contacts ? Keep that fanboy zeal Warner Brothers expects it for the idiotic scripted " Superman Returns " as well. :rolleyes:
HE's the fanboy? :confused: You're the one comlaining about how it was different from the comics/your expectations!

[comic_lover]

HE's the fanboy? :confused: You're the one comlaining about how it was different from the comics/your expectations!A Fanboy loves a character almost all the time even if obvious mistakes are made.Go to a Star Trek convention and try to discuss just how bad the last Trek movie was.Same thing.The Batman Begins movie was solidly mediocre.Get over it.

[Gaz]

A Fanboy loves a character almost all the time even if obvious mistakes are made.Go to a Star Trek convention and try to discuss just how bad the last Trek movie was.Same thing.The Batman Begins movie was solidly mediocre.Get over it.
It was very good, and most of your criticisms are so minor and related to how YOU want the character to be portrayed I doubt you're being objective either.

[comic_lover]

It was very good, and most of your criticisms are so minor and related to how YOU want the character to be portrayed I doubt you're being objective either. I LOVE the character of Batman.Always have,always will.Why do a movie unless you have a new daring,intepretation to show ? The movie was made exactly as Warner Bros. usually makes movies,dumbed down,action oriented,kid friendly,tie-in merchandise aimed mediocrity.

[Gaz]

I LOVE the character of Batman.Always have,always will.Why do a movie unless you have a new daring,intepretation to show ? The movie was made exactly as Warner Bros. usually makes movies,dumbed down,action oriented,kid friendly,tie-in merchandise aimed mediocrity.
Odd, most complaints have been about the lack of action and the mature tone.

[1HELLBOY]

Spoken like a true fanboy.You need to look at the movie more objectively.It wasn't any better or worse than what was done in 89.Considering this is 2005 we have a problem...Spraypaint,greasepaint,same idea.....it looked cheap..and as for the lack of pale eye slits; Sandy was wrong about that.If they really wanted him to look " unearthly ' why not give him white contacts ? Keep that fanboy zeal ; Warner Brothers expects it for the idiotic scripted " Superman Returns " as well. ;)


Yes, I AM a huge Batman fan. He's my favorite DC character. And yes, I did go into this movie with high expectations. This movie went above and beyond my expectations. There WERE a few things that worried me from trailers and screen shots. But my worries were quickly shot to the ground when everything was explained in the movie. There are no perfect comic book movies out there. It was the perfect BATMAN comic book movie. There were so many Batman comic book nods and references that it's almost as if they took it STRAIGHT from the comic books. There was nothing about this movie that was not left unexplained, or left out in the open. And by the way, you've yet to argue with any of my points about the movie. All the points that you made I either proved wrong or that some of them were totally off-base.

P.S. Grease paint and spray paint have only ONE thing in common: they're paint. Other than that, no similarities once so ever.

[Mole_mans_revenge]

its really ashame that scarecrow goes down so easily i mean
how gay i