Maximum Vengeance

[PatrickG]

Okay...

I hear a lot of people griping about the latest arc in SUPERMAN/BATMAN.

The gripes about it being confusing, I can understand a bit... Although a LOT of good comic stories require that you read them in full to get a grip on what the heck's going on. This is a lot simpler than, say, AVENGERS FOREVER.

But the gist of the biggest gripes is this: Jeph Loeb has admitted that the team of parallel universe heroes in this story, The Maximums, are patterned after certain Marvel characters and he's said that this arc will show why Superman and Batman are the greatest heroes in this or any universe.

Alright, so far it sounds about like the old Squadron Supreme to me.

I think it ticks some off that Jeph has indicated that this is in response to SUPREME POWERS, the Superman analog in SPIDER-MAN, THE NEW AVENGERS and the death of a Lois Lane knockoff in THE PULSE which he describes as "over the line".

But I've read the first issue. Ostensibly, a lot of people have.

And I hear people all over the 'net claiming that Loeb is disrespecting Marvel.

Well, the thing is, the Maximums don't really even come across like the Ultimates. They come across like a classic Avengers line-up. They're government sanctioned and we see some talk radio clips about how they're "dark"... But we don't see them portrayed as incompetent or wanton killers.

They actually come off much better than the Elite did in ACTION #775 as an Authority take-off and MUCH better than the classic Squadron Supreme which took DC's characters and basically recast them as a bunch of squabling demi-gods.

Without giving too much away, I hope, the plot is this: The Maximums are fighting the Axis of Evil when, out of the blue, Superman and Batman show up through a boomtube, defeat the badguys and kill the Giantman take-off, named Skyscraper, for supposedly killing Lois.

Then, we get Plot B with the Bizarros. (Yes, plural.) Plot C is Superman and Batman dealing with some extra aftermath from the first arc of this book.

And then we snap back to plot A where the Maximums are visited by the ghost of the Bowman who offers to guide them to Superman and Batman's universe to take revenge.

Okay, so maybe they're getting duped... Obviously, there's a trick in place to set the heroes into conflict with one another. There is a sneaky cheap shot by Loeb about how Marvel's heroes fight eachother more than they fight bad guys... Which is true. All these "versus" threads we see online are basically an outgrowth of Marvel.

I don't think we ever saw a DC hero raise a fist at another DC hero without mind control, villain manpulation or posession being involved 70s or 80s.

So, I'm not sure what about the actual comic is so offensive yet.

Yeah, outside the comic, Jeph takes potshots at Marvel and he tosses a few into the comic. But I don't get why anybody's offended by that.

The characters themselves actually seem like pretty respectful takes on the Avengers so far. And yet, I see people describe this issue as trashing the Ultimates. Are a lot of online comments made without reading comics? I mean, a lot more than I'd be inclined to think, at least?

[bert]

I don't think he's "disrespecting" Marvel at all

but I do think he's disrespecting the reader/buyer, by letting DC release this mumbled/jumbled pile of crap.

I didn't catch the Avenger's "homage" at all upon reading it. . and I've been reading comics for over 30 years now. But that was most likely because I became more and more annoyed with the issue as I read it and didn't understand any of it.

Decompressed storytelling is just fine, but you have to tell ENOUGH of a story that the reader is interested enough to come back the next issue. This issue did not fit that bill.

I was so disgusted w/ it, that if the next issue isn't a marked improvement, it's off my pull list. There are WAY better comics being published that deserve my support more than Bats/Supes if the quality doesn't immediately improve.

bert

[PatrickG]

That, I understand.

I think mainly because this is his last arc, he figured that instead of giving chapter one of a story, he could try something else and give the first third of a chapter for three stories.

Generally, not a new reader-friendly tactic but by the time a creator wraps up on a book (similar to how it is when a TV series ends) you're freed up to start thinking more about where things are going to wrap up and less about getting new people onboard.

That said, I *get* your concern. It's a valid one.

But a lot of people assumed from the interviews that the Avengers-takeoffs are being portrayed like jackasses and have been citing this issue as if that's what happened.

It's this kind of thing that makes me think that if I was Dan Didio or Joe Quesada, I'd release false preview covers and preview pages more often.

[stealthwise]

I think that most people are so annoyed by the way that Loeb is writing it than anything else, it sounds like masturbatory fan-fiction.

[Charles RB]

he's said that this arc will show why Superman and Batman are the greatest heroes in this or any universe.

Jack Staff may have something to say about that...

[Andrew345]

I'm not annoyed at the jabs at Marvel although some people who don't read the Avengers might not get the inside jokes. I just don't see the purpose of "Batzarro" and "Bizarro". Their dialogue was hard to understand and they didn't seem fit into the overall flow of the story.

Ive generally loved everything Jeph Loeb has written thus far but this first chapter has been dissapointing. Hopefully things will start to make sense in the next chapters.