Sunfire?

[fishtaco]

I stopped reading the Rogue series, but I was following along, up until the last issue. I know that Sunfire got his legs chopped off. Can somebody bring me up to speed on everything?

[Huzzah!]

He fell to the darkside and Ewan had to chop them off. it was really good until he became darth vader and scream "noooooooooooooooooooo"


btw screw you marvel

[Doom Hammer]

Titannus has made it his hobby to regularly kick the crap out of Sunfire over at Marvel Team-Up.

[Gaz]

Titannus has made it his hobby to regularly kick the crap out of Sunfire over at Marvel Team-Up.
What, he does it again, after #6? (Reading MTU in trades, due to low funds)

[Crimson]

What, he does it again, after #6? (Reading MTU in trades, due to low funds)

He did it in the latest issue #9

[Gaz]

He did it in the latest issue #9
Well, at least our favorite Japanese hero has that good ol' "can do" attitude. :p

[The Lucky One]

From what I hear -- and this is just from reading reviews, not the title, so fair warning -- he appears to have died, and his personality is now bubbling around in Rogue's head, much like Ms. Marvel's did for years. Whether that'll be a permanent change is still to be seen.

-D

[Ant-Man]

From what I hear -- and this is just from reading reviews, not the title, so fair warning -- he appears to have died, and his personality is now bubbling around in Rogue's head, much like Ms. Marvel's did for years. Whether that'll be a permanent change is still to be seen.

-D

Is this why in X-Men #171, she is shown shooting fire from her hands?

[Sandoz]

From what I hear -- and this is just from reading reviews, not the title, so fair warning -- he appears to have died, and his personality is now bubbling around in Rogue's head, much like Ms. Marvel's did for years. Whether that'll be a permanent change is still to be seen.

-D
Gotta love it when classic characters are mutilated and killed just to give another character a power boost. Hopefully House of M will retcon this plot development into oblivion.

[DDM]

Gotta love it when classic characters are mutilated and killed just to give another character a power boost. Hopefully House of M will retcon this plot development into oblivion.

Amen. I'm still confused about Rogue's powers status. In X-Men: The End, she clearly retains her original Ms. Marvel powers along with her own mutant power. I don't know what her status is in X-Men, although she still does not have control over her own mutant powers. Rogue seriously needs Ms. Marvel's powers though...

[Huzzah!]

See this is whay pisses me off about marvel. If you are going to get a classic old character to kill in your book here is a couple of things you should and should not do


1. Announce it
2. The same sort of thing, dont put him or her on the cover
3. In fact dont put them on the cover at all


Why? If you are going to kill him you dont want to disuade people who dont like the character from buying the book. They think sunfire is going to be in it they will avoid.

And you dont want to get sunfire fans to read the book if you are simply going to kill their character.


Hey marvel, how about growing some short and curlies? killing characters that havent been around since like 96 is easy. Kill important characters so the story itself is, you know, important

[The Fury]

What people are claiming better not have happened.

I'm serious.

[Beast]

What people are claiming better not have happened.

I'm serious.
It did. Sunfire's a legless corpse, and Rogue sucked him dry.

[The Fury]

It did. Sunfire's a legless corpse, and Rogue sucked him dry.
Your killing me Beast. :(

Let the emails begin (not to you, to Marvel).

[Ant-Man]

It did. Sunfire's a legless corpse, and Rogue sucked him dry.

So now Marvel can change her name to Rogue Fire :D .

[Joe Zool]

Wait, so they made Rogue a murderer?

*rages*

[fishtaco]

Wait, so they made Rogue a murderer?

*rages*
Rogue technically killed Sunfire, but he would have died anyway from bleeding to death when Lady D. chopped his legs off. She hoped that he can somehow live as a part of her. Is this correct?

It did. Sunfire's a legless corpse, and Rogue sucked him dry.Y'know, the X-men franchise doenst get much worse than this, does it? Im not even going to bother with the hatemail, but atleast now I have made up my opinion of Tony Bedard. This story was good, but how could he just off Sunfire?!?? A classic character!! I mean, Blindspot can be killed off, I guess, or maybe the Silver Samurai, since he is going to be brought back by someone else anyway (Silver Samurai is actually supposed to be dead), but why Shiro?

[Beast]

Because Bedard was given the task, to give Rogue a permanent power boost. And Sunfire was the character that got the toe tag. I doubt it's Bedard's fault, because it seems like Milligan was likely the one who wanted her upgraded. But didn't want to do it in his own series. So it fell to Bedard. :)

[fishtaco]

Because Bedard was given the task, to give Rogue a permanent power boost. And Sunfire was the character that got the toe tag. I doubt it's Bedard's fault, because it seems like Milligan was likely the one who wanted her upgraded. But didn't want to do it in his own series. So it fell to Bedard. :)That doesnt change anything. Rogue should get her Ms. Marvel powers back, and not a new Sunfire persona. And getting the Sunfire persona doesnt mean that Sunfire needs to be offed. Ms. Marvel wasnt killed off when Rogue took her powers, so why Shiro?

The Ms. Marvel persona was considered its own character. It even has its own cerebro file on uxn.net. Im not an expert on the specifics of Rogue's powers, so would the Sunfire persona be it's own character too?

[Sandoz]

Wait, so they made Rogue a murderer?

*rages*

Rogue technically killed Sunfire, but he would have died anyway from bleeding to death when Lady D. chopped his legs off. She hoped that he can somehow live as a part of her. Is this correct?
Sunfire asked Rogue to absorb his power even though it would likely finish him, but she refused to drain him dry. She gave him a small touch so that she could stand a chance against Lady Deathstryke, but then a character called Blindspot deliberately shoved Rogue against Shiro so she'd absorb him permanently. Shiro flatlined, and now Rogue apparently has his power and personality inside her. So if Shiro is really dead, Rogue didn't kill him intentionally...

[fishtaco]

Sunfire asked Rogue to absorb his power even though it would likely finish him, but she refused to drain him dry. She gave him a small touch so that she could stand a chance against Lady Deathstryke, but then a character called Blindspot deliberately shoved Rogue against Shiro so she'd absorb him permanently. Shiro flatlined, and now Rogue apparently has his power and personality inside her. So if Shiro is really dead, Rogue didn't kill him intentionally...Why did Blindspot do that? Arent she and Rogue friends? I remember someone giving some info on her, but I dont remember too much of it.

[Beast]

Why did Blindspot do that? Arent she and Rogue friends? I remember someone giving some info on her, but I dont remember too much of it.
She didn't want Rogue's borrowed powers running out in the middle of the fight with Lady Deathstrike.

[Sandoz]

Why did Blindspot do that? Arent she and Rogue friends? I remember someone giving some info on her, but I dont remember too much of it.
Apparently they were friends during Rogue's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants days, and she doesn't seem to be very trustworthy. Her justification for what she did to Rogue and Shiro was pretty much, "Sorry, I don't want you to run out of juice during the fight!" She was only out to save her own skin.

[fishtaco]

Apparently they were friends during Rogue's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants days, and she doesn't seem to be very trustworthy. Her justification for what she did to Rogue and Shiro was pretty much, "Sorry, I don't want you to run out of juice during the fight!" She was only out to save her own skin.oh. Is she supposed to be a retconned in member of the BOEM?

[Beast]

oh. Is she supposed to be a retconned in member of the BOEM?
No, it was actually before her Brotherhood of Evil Mutant days. When Mystique was just working as an independant mercenary/assassin. :)

[Sandoz]

oh. Is she supposed to be a retconned in member of the BOEM?
Yeah. She has the power to erase certain memories in such a way so that the person doesn't even notice they're gone. She was retconned into Rogue's villainous past with a lame "I've never been mentioned before because I erased your memories of me" explanation.

[Beast]

Yeah. She has the power to erase certain memories in such a way so that the person doesn't even notice they're gone. She was retconned into Rogue's villainous past with a lame "I've never been mentioned before because I erased your memories of me" explanation.
Sandoz, it says right in the issues that this is pre-BOEM. :)

[Sandoz]

Sandoz, it says right in the issues that this is pre-BOEM. :)
Ah, all right. *edits post* Admittedly, I could only bring myself to skim through the issues because of my allergic reaction to the Sunfire abuse.

[Joe Zool]

Sunfire asked Rogue to absorb his power even though it would likely finish him, but she refused to drain him dry. She gave him a small touch so that she could stand a chance against Lady Deathstryke, but then a character called Blindspot deliberately shoved Rogue against Shiro so she'd absorb him permanently. Shiro flatlined, and now Rogue apparently has his power and personality inside her. So if Shiro is really dead, Rogue didn't kill him intentionally...

Okay, I feel a little better about that...

...but still, it seems like a mighty vicious thing to do, to both Sunfire and Rogue.


(don't read the series, BTW, so all of this is secondhand info for me)

[Will.S]

I think Sunfire still has a chance to live as living flame (that scorched his body away like his AOA counterpart) and don that cool Japanense sun mask I've been waiting for him to use instead of that silly costume.

[Huzzah!]

his costume was awesome.. it was so cheesy 70s japanese tv show

regardless Sunfire is a better character than rogue. Why couldnt we have killed her? Hell Sunfire is even better suited for Milligans team as he is a famous self centered asshole.

[Beast]

It's possible that Sunfire could still end up surviving. Given that we only believe him to be dead with Issue #11. Sure he flatlined, but he could have ended up pulled free from his life support stuff. Bedard over on his forums said if Rogue hadn't been cancelled, he would have followed Sunfire a bit more. So perhaps he does live. And then he's also confirmed to be part of HoM, so could be back afterwards due to that also. :)

[The Fury]

It's possible that Sunfire could still end up surviving. Given that we only believe him to be dead with Issue #11. Sure he flatlined, but he could have ended up pulled free from his life support stuff. Bedard over on his forums said if Rogue hadn't been cancelled, he would have followed Sunfire a bit more. So perhaps he does live. And then he's also confirmed to be part of HoM, so could be back afterwards due to that also. :)
He could, but technically he is already alive, him powers and mind are in Rogue, and the scene that took place in X-men #171, was not like Rogue and quite like Sunfire, his...(I'm going to use this word but I don't think it's the right one) disrespect for the x-men. If and when his mind takes control, even for short times, things could happen.

[Frank]

Sunfire is dead? :(

See that`s why Quesada is an incompetent douche as an Editor-in-Chef sometime. I know he`s a slob, but things like killing a character shouldn`t be "business as usual". Marvel needs another Mark Gruenwald who caresa bout stuff like that. About the characters! Don`t worry Joe, you will never have his stature.

I could totaly see Sunfire in Milligan`s team too. I would have bought his comic had Rogue, Gambit and Polaris would have been replaced by Sunfire, Banshee and Forge.

[Sheldon]

This is a pretty stupid development....a bionic sunfire would have been better than a floating around in Rogue's head Sunfire....

Are there any asian hero's left?

[Holland]

Sunfire is always getting shafted in the X-Books.
He could have been a mjor player if a writer just took the time to flesh him out.
He was great in the Age of Apocalypse. That version had 10 times the spotlight the 616 one will ever have.
Are there any asian hero's left? Psylocke, maybe?

[The Fury]

Are there any asian hero's left?
Do you want Asian in general or Japanese?

Japanese:
Baymax - Big Hero 6
Go Go Tomago - Big Hero 6
Hiro - Big Hero 6
Honey Lemon - Big Hero 6
Sunpyre Sunfire's Sister who was dead for year and then unexplaianbly alive again.
There is a groups of Japanese Superheroes called the ShadowMasters (I don't know who they are)

Asian:

The China Force Team - from China, all of them there about5 or 6 but one is dead.

All those loser Austen invented, although it's questionable of whethe they are heroes or not.

Mondo, from Gen X is from Samoa

And a few of the Young Gods are from SE Asian Islands, again I don't know who they are. I'm getting this from a website.

[The Dosadi Experiment]

Sunfire was abused by writers. The reluctant hero never got away from Japan for some unknown reason that's probably tied to a lack of interest from the writers.

If you hail from Japan, you seem to come with a dozen or more issues, and all of them involve your ties to your homeland. You have ninjas for breakfast and you carry the whole weight of your family's honour on your shoulders.

You called my grandaddy a douchebag when he was five and you were six, now prepare to have your head lobbed off in the name of honour!

Sunfire's death is like a cake, a giant leg-less misshapen cake with all the wrong ingredients.

[The Fury]

Psylocke, maybe?
You insult me, my good sir.

Asian body or not Betsy Braddock is BRITISH.

[The Fury]

Sunfire was abused by writers. The reluctant hero never got away from Japan for some unknown reason that's probably tied to a lack of interest from the writers.

He was part of Alpha Flight once, but didn't want to be there it was only to help him with his powers. And he was part of the Mumbai X-Corp. But his love for his native Japan keeps him there, he does not care about other countries, but his own.

[Sheldon]

How could I forget Xorneto! He's an asian mutant role model!

[Sandoz]

Do you want Asian in general or Japanese?

Japanese:
Baymax - Big Hero 6
Go Go Tomago - Big Hero 6
Hiro - Big Hero 6
Honey Lemon - Big Hero 6
Sunpyre Sunfire's Sister who was dead for year and then unexplaianbly alive again.
There is a groups of Japanese Superheroes called the ShadowMasters (I don't know who they are)

Asian:

The China Force Team - from China, all of them there about5 or 6 but one is dead.

All those loser Austen invented, although it's questionable of whethe they are heroes or not.

Mondo, from Gen X is from Samoa

And a few of the Young Gods are from SE Asian Islands, again I don't know who they are. I'm getting this from a website.
There's also Turbo/Michiko Musashi and Sister Grimm/Nico Minoru. (Both are currently appearing in Runaways.)

[The Fury]

There's also Turbo/Michiko Musashi and Sister Grimm/Nico Minoru. (Both are currently appearing in Runaways.)
Are they actually from Asia though or are they American born Asians? Or Asian by decent but American otherwise? There's a difference.

[Gaz]

How about Surge? Not sure if she's Asian-American though.
And DAMN RIGHT, Betsy's a Brit, she's so British her brother's CAPTAIN Britain.:D

[Christopher O]

Are there any asian hero's left?
Thunderbird III, who should change to Sunfire, now that the name is open. He also needs to get a writer who'll give him a personality, while he's at it.

[Huzzah!]

I thought XXM gave a good personality. I mean TB3 was Xorn before there was a xorn. I liked the fact he was a pacifist like superhero. Was interesting.


But even then he needs to stay away from the sunfire name.

[Ryan K]

Are there any asian hero's left?

:eek:

Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee! Jubilee!

[The Fury]

:eek:

Jubilee!
Again, she's not really an Asian character, she may look like one, but she is an American, she doesn't follow the social standards, religious beliefs or have ethics that reflect the Asian nations.



Thinking about the subject, considering together the Asian continent, (not including Russia) is inhabitited by a third of the worlds population, i kind of surprised there aren't more mutants from this region.

[nubly]

well at least we still have his sister. i think her name is sunpyre


Hey marvel, how about growing some short and curlies? killing characters that havent been around since like 96 is easy. Kill important characters so the story itself is, you know, important
i dont understand your statement here. you complain about marvel killing a classic character and then you complain because all they kill is recent characters and not classic characters?

[The Fury]

well at least we still have his sister. i think her name is sunpyre

Your not the only one to say that, and she's died and returned to life, as I've said before. Unexplainably as well.

[Sheldon]

Again, she's not really an Asian character, she may look like one....

And even then most of the time she's drawn as a white person with black hair.

[GoGo Yubari]

How about Surge? Not sure if she's Asian-American though.

I believe she's Japanese, so yeah, she counts.

[The Fury]

And even then most of the time she's drawn as a white person with black hair.
haha, yeah.

Oh, yeah forgot about Surge, she counts,

[Huzzah!]

well at least we still have his sister. i think her name is sunpyre


i dont understand your statement here. you complain about marvel killing a classic character and then you complain because all they kill is recent characters and not classic characters?


No the problem with killing sunfire is he is a secondary character. There is no emotional weight to killing him (he and rogue arent buddies) and really no reason to do so. Killing someone for the sake of it is a fools game as one editor put it "everyone is someones favorite". As for the confusion, the intial part of that post was more to do with marvels operations than the actual killing (which i would not like even if pulled off well). Its like me saying "dont sit on the highway" but then adding "if you are going to do it, have some flares around yourself".

Dont take this in an assholish way, but reread my post. Either you misread it, or i missed something that makes it confusing. The recent/classic thing doesnt ring bells.

[UncannyAsianGirl]

Again, she's not really an Asian character, she may look like one, but she is an American, she doesn't follow the social standards, religious beliefs or have ethics that reflect the Asian nations.

*Gasp* Are you implying that I'm not really Asian, because I wasn't born in Asia, nor do the other things that you mentioned?

Again, *gasp*!

Wait, we cook Asian food most of the time at home, does that count? =P

Don't make me have an identity crisis here. :eek:

All of you are forgetting Karma. What is she, chopped liver? What a strange phrase...

She was born in Vietnam, IIRC.

Coincidentally, right now, I am in Asia (Indonesia), so if I'm not Asian back home, at least I'm Asian now... I guess.

And please don't make cracks about Tsunamis. x_X

[The Fury]

*Gasp* Are you implying that I'm not really Asian, because I wasn't born in Asia, nor do the other things that you mentioned?

Again, *gasp*!

Wait, we cook Asian food most of the time at home, does that count? =P

Don't make me have an identity crisis here. :eek:

All of you are forgetting Karma. What is she, chopped liver? What a strange phrase...

She was born in Vietnam, IIRC.

Coincidentally, right now, I am in Asia (Indonesia), so if I'm not Asian back home, at least I'm Asian now... I guess.

And please don't make cracks about Tsunamis. x_X
I knew, I'd offend someone with what I said above. But in my view there is a difference in ethnic origins and your life style.

You sound like you are Asian, you reflect asian customs and ethics, am I correct, then you are asian.

In the case of Jubilee and for use of an example Psylocke. They may look like they are from Asia, but they show no aspects of being asian, other then that.
.
.
.
.
.
I'll shut up now before I stick my foot any further down my throat.

[nubly]

I knew, I'd offend someone with what I said above. But in my view there is a difference in ethnic origins and your life style.

You sound like you are Asian, you reflect asian customs and ethics, am I correct, then you are asian.

you dont have to 'reflect' customs or ethics from a certain country in order to be considered. your ethnic background determines what you are. if you were born in the UK but your parents were born in colombia, then your background would be hispanic

[The Fury]

you dont have to 'reflect' customs or ethics from a certain country in order to be considered. your ethnic background determines what you are. if you were born in the UK but your parents were born in colombia, then your background would be hispanic
Yeah, completely understood.


I really am going to shut up. My foot don't taste nice.

[Gaveedra 6]

So, what you're saying is that too few Marvel characters have that authentic Asian **Flavor**.

(ducks)

[The Fury]

So, what you're saying is that too few Marvel characters have that authentic Asian **Flavor**.

(ducks)
I'm guessing what you mean by **Flavor**, even though I spell it with a 'u'.

Due to world population. Yes. 2.3 Billion people between India and China along. And we can't even name 30 characters from those regions.


And your ducking? I' swlallowed my knee ages ago. :)

[nubly]

ah. so what youre saying is asians as in people who live in the contientn. well lets see:

silver saumrai, mariko yoshida, sunfire, sunpyre, karma, go-go tamago, honey lemon, hiro takachiho, sumo, dragoness, gai no don, tran coy manh, bengal, ebon samurai, opal tanaka's grandfather and mother, the cyber samurai from x-factor, dragonfly, karma's twin siblings, matsuo tsurayaba, kwannon, collective man, china force (snake, rat, ox, rabbitt), jade dragon, nuwa, sirocco, arabian knight, aminedi, black raazer, the veil, thunderbird III, karima shapindar, tyger tyger, mandarin, radioactive man, shang chi, the cat, yellow claw...to name a few off the top of my mind

[The Fury]

ah. so what youre saying is asians as in people who live in the contientn. well lets see:

silver saumrai, mariko yoshida, sunfire, sunpyre, karma, go-go tamago, honey lemon, hiro takachiho, sumo, dragoness, gai no don, tran coy manh, bengal, ebon samurai, opal tanaka's grandfather and mother, the cyber samurai from x-factor, dragonfly, karma's twin siblings, matsuo tsurayaba, kwannon, collective man, china force (snake, rat, ox, rabbitt), jade dragon, nuwa, sirocco, arabian knight, aminedi, black raazer, the veil, thunderbird III, karima shapindar, tyger tyger, mandarin, radioactive man, shang chi, the cat, yellow claw...to name a few off the top of my mind
I guess.

Mnay of those are dead though, that as the question, how many Asian heroes are there left alive. And when you say off the top of my head, you mean a website, That's where I got my info.

but now name the American's.

Too many aren't there.

[nubly]

no i mean off the top of my head. of course there are more american super heroes. for the same reason there are so many super heroes in NY. because that is where marvel started their world.

[The Fury]

no i mean off the top of my head. of course there are more american super heroes. for the same reason there are so many super heroes in NY. because that is where marvel started their world.
That is an impressive list off the top of your head.

And yeah the NY thing.

[The Fury]

So, back to the thread.

So Sunfire's dead.

That sucks.

[Shellhead]

Rogue got massively overexposed in the 80's and 90's, while Sunfire hasn't had enough exposure since he first appeared in the early 70's. I wish Rogue had gotten her legs chopped off and Sunfire had to put her out of her misery.

EDIT: at least Sunfire didn't spend his entire career trapped in the mutant ghetto that is the x-title line.

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=42856589026%2070

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=05815547774%20117

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=83468851744%201

[Gaz]

Rogue got massively overexposed in the 80's and 90's, while Sunfire hasn't had enough exposure since he first appeared in the early 70's. I wish Rogue had gotten her legs chopped off and Sunfire had to put her out of her misery.
Nice, kill off someone else's favorite because you don't like her. That's more constructive than this development or a Chuck Austen comic, how?

[Gaveedra 6]

Sunfire was marvel's closest thing to an asian A-List mutant superhero.

He rarely got to star, but he was always a top-notch guest-star. It was like like he was totally A-List in his own country, but we just never got to see his solo adventures. We just knew he was Japan's Superman.

I guess there are a good handful of Asian and Asian-American characters (as listed above.) But few of them would get me excited when I saw them on the cover of a comic.

[Frank]

Rogue got massively overexposed in the 80's and 90's, while Sunfire hasn't had enough exposure since he first appeared in the early 70's. I wish Rogue had gotten her legs chopped off and Sunfire had to put her out of her misery.

EDIT: at least Sunfire didn't spend his entire career trapped in the mutant ghetto that is the x-title line.

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=42856589026%2070

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=05815547774%20117

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=83468851744%201

I first saw Sunfire on the cover of a Iron Man comic when I was a kid where he was melting Iron Man with his rays. I thought he was the coolest dude ever.

R.I.P.

[The Fury]

The more I think about this the more I get annoyed.

Now I'm not happy with any death, and I think they never really need doing to tell as story.

But this one has underlying things that annoy me more. Now I have not read the book and am going by what information Beast has told me.

First Sunfire is was killed to give Rogue a power boost. Now if he had just gone unconsios then fine, I mean Carol Danvers is still alive.

Second, according to Beast, Rogue does not have Sunfire's mind in her, Now I could have accepted it if she did have his mind running around in her head, but apparently it was removed. She now has his power perminatntly with none of the cons that usually go with absorbing someone's powers. This is not a good thing.

Sunfire's death. Now apparently he asked to die becuase he didn't want to live without his legs. What kind of message is that?

And this guy can FLY, how much does he use his legs really?

And lastly, his culture, sees suicide as a non-honerable thing. Yet he bascially had assisted suicide here. For a man who is heavily proud of his Country and it's culture this is very out of character.

[The Dosadi Experiment]

and the worst part of it all is that Rogue's little power-up isn't going to last.

When the third movie gets out, when the next new re-set takes place, Rogue will be returned to her status quo and then Sunfire will be even less than a distant memory.

His death was completely in vain, nobody will remember him in five years time.

[fishtaco]

I doubt that most people even know that he's dead right now.

[Sheldon]

And this guy can FLY, how much does he use his legs really?



Plus they missed the bionic legs angle that could have been huge!

[Beast]

Plus they missed the bionic legs angle that could have been huge!
Yeah, he could have changed his name to Darth Vader. :D

[Beast]

Bedard confirms it was editorial that made it Sunfire, to make her less boring.
Yeah, that was the take on it from Marvel editorial. I had originally proposed her taking on a set of Ms Marvel-like powers, but it just seemed like retreading old ground. They suggested trying something different, and I think it was the right way to go.

The Sunfire powers let her fly again, but they also play into her whole untouchable status. Of course, we'll have to explain them now, so it's potentially complicated, but I guess we'll see how Milligan and others handle it.
Who he originally intended for Rogue to permanently absorb:
I would probably have had Rogue absorb Monet's powers -- your basic flight/strength/invulnerability combo.

But after discussion with my editor, we figured there Monet was kind of dull compared to Sunfire, and we went for more drama rather than a specific power set.

As for Sunfire's fate and how it plays out with Rogue, that'll be for someone else to follow up.
http://www.herorealm.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3368

[Ryan K]

Wow. Absorbing M would have been nice. From a personal stand point, I like her FAR less that Sunfire. That's very interesting. I love tidbits like that.

I did actually go out and buy these issues at my comic book store and my opinion is this:

I really like the idea of Rogue absorbing Sunfire and having his powers and everything. I HATE that this had to happen at the expense of Sunfire's life. I'll leave it at that.

[Alan2099]

Nice, kill off someone else's favorite because you don't like her. That's more constructive than this development or a Chuck Austen comic, how?
Well, it seems to be working for Bendis. He's killing people left and right.

Now killing a character ANY character, not just Sunfire, is a waste.
Killing a character is a weak story idea and refeclt poorly on the writter. It's basically saying that the only thing I can think of to do with this person is kill them.

Now if the character says dead, that's it for them. Any potential for future stories they had for other writers that wanted to work with them is gone. Sure, you get your single GUESS WHO DIES IN THIS ISSUE!!!!! cover blurb and one dramatic story, but it takes the place of countless stories the character could have been used in.

Now if the character comes back to life, then you have to get into the whol mess explaining how it hapened and death means just a little bit less than it did before.

[The Fury]

Bedard confirms it was editorial that made it Sunfire, to make her less boring.

Who he originally intended for Rogue to permanently absorb:

That all sounds good. At least he had a good idea about who'spower he was going to have Rogue take.

But why KILL him? That's what this is about. I don't care who's powers she took but the end result was the needless death of a character.

Although this does give me hope.
As for Sunfire's fate and how it plays out with Rogue, that'll be for someone else to follow up.
At least he didn't outright say he was dead.

[Calybos]

Oh. This is about the OTHER Sunfire. I thought it was about the good one, from Exiles.

[xakko]

Wow. Absorbing M would have been nice. From a personal stand point, I like her FAR less that Sunfire. That's very interesting. I love tidbits like that.

I really like the idea of Rogue absorbing Sunfire and having his powers and everything. I HATE that this had to happen at the expense of Sunfire's life. I'll leave it at that.

Oh, M would've been PERFECT! the haughty, arrogant miss perfect got old so fast. Marvel has no clue what to do with Monet anyway. Sunfire had a richer history, and a power set that doesn't make sense There are so few Asian characters that to take out Japan's national hero just to return flight to Rogue was unfortunate.

[Ryan K]

Oh. This is about the OTHER Sunfire. I thought it was about the good one, from Exiles.

Yeeeeaaaah. She's already dead.

[Atom_basher]

im glad it wasnt M, there is still alot left for Monet to do, i find M way more interesting than Rogue


A question, couldnt a talented writer giver her powers without killing anyone.

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

i am quite ok with getting characters killed. if you are a superhero, you might as well expect death to happen to you or to those around you.

what i find ridiculous is the "let's not have characters killed because it is a lack of creativity to kill a character." i think it is ridiculous because not killing characters would make this superhero world even less believable.

many characters that i loved have been killed, and to tell you my truth, i was a bit annoyed. but, still, comics and life goes on, and new comics and characters (whom i could potentially love) will come along.

we don't own these characters, so i think it is a bit silly to DEMAND or YELL at marvel for killing a character or such.

sunfire is dead, long live sunfire (even if only inside rogue's head :o )

cheers

[Taskmaster]

Do you want Asian in general or Japanese?

Japanese:
Baymax - Big Hero 6
Go Go Tomago - Big Hero 6
Hiro - Big Hero 6
Honey Lemon - Big Hero 6
Sunpyre Sunfire's Sister who was dead for year and then unexplaianbly alive again.
There is a groups of Japanese Superheroes called the ShadowMasters (I don't know who they are)

Asian:

The China Force Team - from China, all of them there about5 or 6 but one is dead.

All those loser Austen invented, although it's questionable of whethe they are heroes or not.

Mondo, from Gen X is from Samoa

And a few of the Young Gods are from SE Asian Islands, again I don't know who they are. I'm getting this from a website.

Sunpyre (II) and Ebon Samuari are explained in the latest OHOTM on Teams, they are alternate universe versions form HOney Lemon's pouch

[The Fury]

Sunpyre (II) and Ebon Samuari are explained in the latest OHOTM on Teams, they are alternate universe versions form HOney Lemon's pouch
Really?


Riiiiight. I guess even if the writer of AF didn't know she was dead, then the people who put together the OHOTMU must have known and had to come up with an excuse?

[Ant-Man]

Sunfire is a character that has been in limbo longer than he has been in a monthly comic book, since his creation. He was'nt being used, so he may as well be killed off. What's the difference? A dead character is a dead character, and Sunfire was dead either way.

[Sandoz]

i am quite ok with getting characters killed. if you are a superhero, you might as well expect death to happen to you or to those around you.

what i find ridiculous is the "let's not have characters killed because it is a lack of creativity to kill a character." i think it is ridiculous because not killing characters would make this superhero world even less believable.

many characters that i loved have been killed, and to tell you my truth, i was a bit annoyed. but, still, comics and life goes on, and new comics and characters (whom i could potentially love) will come along.

we don't own these characters, so i think it is a bit silly to DEMAND or YELL at marvel for killing a character or such.

sunfire is dead, long live sunfire (even if only inside rogue's head )

cheers
I don't have a problem with Sunfire being killed, I have a problem with Sunfire being killed for a stupid reason. He was mutilated and killed so another, more popular character could get a power boost (which is even worse considering that they've never even tried to explain why Rogue can't get Ms. Marvel's powers back when Ms. Marvel herself could). Not that Sunfire was the greatest character in the universe or anything, but this whole thing sounds silly in light of Joe Q's "all these X-Deaths are meaningful/dead means dead" policy.

[DDM]

I don't have a problem with Sunfire being killed, I have a problem with Sunfire being killed for a stupid reason. He was mutilated and killed so another, more popular character could get a power boost (which is even worse considering that they've never even tried to explain why Rogue can't get Ms. Marvel's powers back when Ms. Marvel herself could). Not that Sunfire was the greatest character in the universe or anything, but this whole thing sounds silly in light of Joe Q's "all these X-Deaths are meaningful/dead means dead" policy.


Carol Danvers never regained her stolen Ms. Marvel powers; Warbird is a depowered version of Binary (Carol still gets her power source from a white hole, although she cannot tap into the full powers she had as Binary). Rogue still has the potential to regain her Ms. Marvel powers again though if enough fans are unhappy with Rogue's Sunfire powers.

[Sandoz]

Carol Danvers never regained her stolen Ms. Marvel powers; Warbird is a depowered version of Binary (Carol still gets her power source from a white hole, although she cannot tap into the full powers she had as Binary).
But she became Binary because her genetically altered DNA still retained the potential for great power; she just needed something like The Brood's tinkering to awaken it. The same thing is possible for Rogue, since her DNA was altered as well when she permanently absorbed Ms. Marvel.

[Shellhead]

Sunfire is a character that has been in limbo longer than he has been in a monthly comic book, since his creation. He was'nt being used, so he may as well be killed off. What's the difference? A dead character is a dead character, and Sunfire was dead either way.


The X-Titles have not been very successful at giving us entertaining new characters in the last 20 years, just lots and lots of crappy ones. Sunfire shouldn't have been killed because the character had enough potential that various X writers kept using him in stories from time to time. The same can not be said about lame characters like Lifeguard, Maggot, and Stonewall. When a decent character dies, either Marvel has one less good character availablet to their writers, or they replace that character with somebody who will probably suck. This death was unnecessary... if Rogue is such a great character, it should not be necessary to kill another character to make her more interesting.

Btw, which Ant-man do you prefer? The one Bendis killed, or the one that Jim Shooter reduced to a wife-beater? Just curious.

[Will.S]

Carol Danvers never regained her stolen Ms. Marvel powers; Warbird is a depowered version of Binary (Carol still gets her power source from a white hole, although she cannot tap into the full powers she had as Binary). Rogue still has the potential to regain her Ms. Marvel powers again though if enough fans are unhappy with Rogue's Sunfire powers.
I figure if she absorbed Carol's DNA into hers and the fact that energy can't be destroyed only transferred then there's a big chance of it coming back similar to how Galactus regained his powers again after they were taken away.

And like you noted Carol's never gotten that stolen power back or at least not yet.

[crystalline green]

im glad it wasnt M, there is still alot left for Monet to do, i find M way more interesting than Rogue.

I couldn't agree more. There a M stories just waiting to be told. :D

Poor Sunfire though :( He's too cool a character to sacrifice in a vain attempt to make Rogue more interesting.

[Huzzah!]

I wish it was M. someone tried to explain that monet peneance thing to me once and my head exploded.


I dont have a huge problem, i do have a problem with how it was done.

Its like saying "Hey Rogue is boring, lets give her the powers and persona of this other character" Its like if you are going to do that kill rogue and get taht character into rotation. Milligan would be better off with him anyway. Hell have sunfire take over rogues body and lose her all together.

[Flat]

I know this is a shot in the dark but does anyone have pics of legless sunfire?

[Atom_basher]

If I were a writer this is how i would make M a more acessible charecter, just explain that the sisters were megered so long that they cant unmerge and that M is now one person for the rest of time

[venuscameback]

Amen. I'm still confused about Rogue's powers status. In X-Men: The End, she clearly retains her original Ms. Marvel powers along with her own mutant power. I don't know what her status is in X-Men, although she still does not have control over her own mutant powers. Rogue seriously needs Ms. Marvel's powers though...

in x-men Rogue occasionally - when convenient for the plot - has control over her powers, such as when adding Polaris' powers to her own & not affecting Lorna adversely

adding to the continued confusion

I don't buy the idea that Peter Milligan thought Rogue needed a power upgrade - Chris Claremont used her effectively enough in his later XXM arcs & she wasn't even absorbing powers then.

I agree with Rio that we should see regular deaths, to reinforce to readers and characters what a dangerous lifestyle the heroes are living. but that only works if there aren't endless ressurections.

What I really resent is the constant representation as disability being a fate worth than death. That Sunfire would rather die than live without his legs - ignoring such possibilities as prosthetics (a la Forge) and his flight power (a flying double-amputee hero would actually be quite interesting to explore) - is deeply offensive to the disabled, including folk like me who use wheelchairs.

Repeating the message that disability = an unfulfilled, miserable life is a disgusting myth for comics and media to propogate

venus

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

i FINALLY read ONE great post where political correctedness DOES make sense and is more than welcome.

thank you venus for telling like it is:

your post was smack on!

that is the reason why i think sillouette was a great character, and she should return...btw,,,whatever happened to her post-new-warriors?


cheers!

[Erik Lehnsherr]

OMG, Sunfire was killed off just to give Rogue another set of powers? Oh no.

[DDM]

But she became Binary because her genetically altered DNA still retained the potential for great power; she just needed something like The Brood's tinkering to awaken it. The same thing is possible for Rogue, since her DNA was altered as well when she permanently absorbed Ms. Marvel.

Rogue's mutant DNA will not produce the exact conditions to gain Binary's powers. Why? Rogue's wild DNA matrix is all over the place; she has imprinted hundreds of people--not all of them human. Therefore, Rogue's DNA will not produce the creation of a second Binary. Furthermore, Rogue's Ms. Marvel powers were a little different than they were for Carol. This may be due to the fact of Rogue unique mutant DNA along with her psychological make-up for not able to control her own mutant powers.

On the other hand, Carol Danvers is a human turned into mutate when she was exposed to Kree Psych Magnatron. The Kree machine altered Carol's DNA to be an amalgam of the best of human & Kree races. Carol's unique hybrid DNA is what allowed Carol Danvers to become the cosmic powered Binary. As Warbird, Carol still has a link to the white hole of a collapsing star, but she just cannot tap into the full power she once had as Binary. Just because Carol Danvers wears her Ms. Marvel costume as Warbird does not mean she has her original Ms. Marvel powers.

[venuscameback]

i FINALLY read ONE great post where political correctedness DOES make sense and is more than welcome.

thank you venus for telling like it is:

your post was smack on!


thanks, Rio :)

i love you too


venus

[crystalline green]

If I were a writer this is how i would make M a more acessible charecter, just explain that the sisters were megered so long that they cant unmerge and that M is now one person for the rest of time

Agreed. Lobdell's original conception of her was cool. Then another writer came on board contrived the whole twins gestalt crap and things got ridiculously convoluted. As I understand it, there are now two M's. One version is the gestalt of the twins and the other is a completely separate M (which I think was another writers attempt to free the character from idiotic twins conception). Anyway I just want to see more of the classic M and I hope some writer falls in love with her in the near future. I'm glad they didn't use her for Rogue's power up afterall.

And I totally agree with Venuscameback. The whole treatment of disability equals death is just grossly insensitive. But there are so many things wrong with the way they are going about giving Rogue powers.

[DDM]

Agreed. Lobdell's original conception of her was cool. Then another writer came on board contrived the whole twins gestalt crap and things got ridiculously convoluted. As I understand it, there are now two M's. One version is the gestalt of the twins and the other is a completely separate M (which I think was another writers attempt to free the character from idiotic twins conception). Anyway I just want to see more of the classic M and I hope some writer falls in love with her in the near future. I'm glad they didn't use her for Rogue's power up afterall.



Lobdell did not write Rogue correctly when she faced the Phalanx in space. Why? Since the Phalanx are related to the Technarchy, Rogue had gained immunity from the techno-organic virus when she absorbed a chunk of the Magus' powers & psyche in Uncanny X-Men #192; this was referenced again in Uncanny X-Men #242 when she fought a transformed N'Astrigh. Therefore, the X-editors had no excuses to ignore such continuity. However, Scott Lobdell did indeed ignore these two important stories when Rogue almost got assimilated into the Phalanx. Rogue, above all other X-Men, should have been immune to Phalanx! She would have been the X-Men's wild card. But Lobdell & the X-editors ignored past stories at the expense of Rogue's characterization.

Heck, the Phalanx could not even assimilate mutants in the first place.

[crystalline green]

Lobdell did not write Rogue correctly when she faced the Phalanx in space. Why? Since the Phalanx are related to the Technarchy, Rogue had gained immunity from the techno-organic virus when she absorbed a chunk of the Magus' powers & psyche in Uncanny X-Men #192; this was referenced again in Uncanny X-Men #242 when she fought a transformed N'Astrigh. Therefore, the X-editors had no excuses to ignore such continuity. However, Scott Lobdell did indeed ignore these two important stories when Rogue almost got assimilated into the Phalanx. Rogue, above all other X-Men, should have been immune to Phalanx! She would have been the X-Men's wild card. But Lobdell & the X-editors ignored past stories at the expense of Rogue's characterization.

Heck, the Phalanx could not even assimilate mutants in the first place.

I'm not familiar with this particular X-men story personally, but I'm not surprised to hear it. Lobdell definitely has a spotty track record. I just think that Gen X was one of the few things he really did right. Perhaps because they were his conception from the beginning.

[Tobias March]

Lobdell did not write Rogue correctly when she faced the Phalanx in space. Why? Since the Phalanx are related to the Technarchy, Rogue had gained immunity from the techno-organic virus when she absorbed a chunk of the Magus' powers & psyche in Uncanny X-Men #192; this was referenced again in Uncanny X-Men #242 when she fought a transformed N'Astrigh. Therefore, the X-editors had no excuses to ignore such continuity. However, Scott Lobdell did indeed ignore these two important stories when Rogue almost got assimilated into the Phalanx. Rogue, above all other X-Men, should have been immune to Phalanx! She would have been the X-Men's wild card. But Lobdell & the X-editors ignored past stories at the expense of Rogue's characterization.

Heck, the Phalanx could not even assimilate mutants in the first place.

Are we sure Magus was of the one and the same species as the Technarch? Because as I recall the 'Phalanx' were a defective seeding of Earth - they were incapable of absorbing mutants because they were as yet not fully developed. The Technarch considered them an abomination.

[DDM]

Are we sure Magus was of the one and the same species as the Technarch? Because as I recall the 'Phalanx' were a defective seeding of Earth - they were incapable of absorbing mutants because they were as yet not fully developed. The Technarch considered them an abomination.

The Phalanx is the "waste"produced by the Techarchy. Both species have the transmode virus. However, the Phalanx, unlike the Technarcy, is unable to assimilate mutants.

[Frank]

So they decided against Monet because it would be too boring and obvious? Well Rogue`s powers other than absorbtion are supposed to be super-strenght and flight...! Plus M has a confused origin wich would have been perfect for Rogue since she`s great when she has a multiple-personality disorder. Also it would have been interesting to see what kind-of personality would have emerged from it.

Idiots

[Neolucifer]

Sunfire was abused by writers. The reluctant hero never got away from Japan for some unknown reason that's probably tied to a lack of interest from the writers.

If you hail from Japan, you seem to come with a dozen or more issues, and all of them involve your ties to your homeland. You have ninjas for breakfast and you carry the whole weight of your family's honour on your shoulders.

You called my grandaddy a douchebag when he was five and you were six, now prepare to have your head lobbed off in the name of honour!

Sunfire's death is like a cake, a giant leg-less misshapen cake with all the wrong ingredients.

Exactly , i'm not saying he should necessarily be killed , but imho Sunfire was a mockery of the japanese culture . He was cheesy , ridicule , and his costume was as horrid and kitch as it can get . Its a shame really , its a character that could easily be "de-70-ized" and revamped just like Blade around the time of his movies . Age of Apocalypse was the only time he was used right imo . He had a great costume , had good action exposure , and didnt feel the need to remind us every page that he is Japanese , that occidentals are weird and sux , and that honor flow through his veins :rolleyes: ...

[Alan2099]

I liked his old costume. It felt sort of Power Ranger-ish, something like a typical japanese hero might decided to wear. I can easily see him as the icon over there much like Captain America is the US icon.

I'm not going to say he didn't suffer from bad writting all the time though. he got his share of that, much like any ssecondary character.

I wouldn't care to see him made into his AOA self either. That was fine for an alternate reality, but in the regular marvel Universe, it just wouldn't feel right.

[Tobias March]

Age of Apocalypse was the only time he was used right imo . He had a great costume , had good action exposure , and didnt feel the need to remind us every page that he is Japanese , that occidentals are weird and sux , and that honor flow through his veins :rolleyes: ...

Yeah...thing was though he'd been made to suffer quite a lot in that reality and had witnessed the death of his nation. The very thing which defined him, his Japanese identity, had to be forcibly burned away in order for him to become an X-Man. Which is fairly strange.

(I always wondered what happened to him in Fatal Attraction - we see a wave of energy heading towards him in mid-air, decked out in spiffy new threads by the by, and then pfft. We hear nothing. That's how little Shiro mattered - writers couldn't even be bothered to explain if he survived or not.)