Which Witch Was the better Woman?

[Richard Guion]

My favorite cowpoke, Cousin Dick, is really upset over what Bendis is doing to the Scarlet Witch. He's running a poll to see which Wanda was your favorite:

http://www.photontorpedoes.com/archives/2005/06/poll_which_scar.php

[jackalope]

Cousin Dick is serious confused. He says he loves the old Goody Witch married to the Vision (as drawn by Byrne), and blames Bendis for making her a baddie.

This is patent nonsense. It was BYRNE who ended Vision and Wanda's relationship, it was BYRNE who revealed the children were products of Wanda's unstable mind, and it was BYRNE who had her first go mad and become a villain. It was also Byrne who had Wanda torture Simon Williams by performing oral sex on him.

So if anyone dirtied up Cousin Dick's princess Wanda, it was, in fact, John Byrne, during his West Coast Avengers run.

[Gauss]

It was also Byrne who had Wanda torture Simon Williams by performing oral sex on him.

That one sounds more like a bad hentai, which compels me to ask if you are indeed serious.

[Kirk G]

Cousin Dick is serious confused. He says he loves the old Goody Witch married to the Vision (as drawn by Byrne), and blames Bendis for making her a baddie.

This is patent nonsense. It was BYRNE who ended Vision and Wanda's relationship, it was BYRNE who revealed the children were products of Wanda's unstable mind, and it was BYRNE who had her first go mad and become a villain. It was also Byrne who had Wanda torture Simon Williams by performing oral sex on him.

So if anyone dirtied up Cousin Dick's princess Wanda, it was, in fact, John Byrne, during his West Coast Avengers run.
I think this is a little over-stated.
Yes, Bryne wrote some scripts and plots that included these elements, but I don''t recall Byrne making her "mad" nor oral sex. She did scratch him (off camera) but I don't recall them being products of her unstable mind. Only that they were elements drawn from the demon and made whole by her only when she was thinking of them. Right?

Hernia indeed! :eek:

[jackalope]

That one sounds more like a bad hentai, which compels me to ask if you are indeed serious.
Completely serious.

West Coast Avengers #56 "Darker Than Scarlet"

It's the first time Wanda goes crazy, after losing her children, having her husband disassembled, and being posessed by black goo. Her insanity has granted her full control over her ability to manipulate reality, and she's paralyzed Agatha harkness, Wasp, Wonder-Man, and USAgent in the living room of her formerly destroyed bungalo.

The dialog goes:
Scarlet Witch: "For years you have loved me from afar. But I was married to the Vision. A marriage no longer viable.
"Does it not please you to see me not only free of the vission...but free also of such petty moralities as once encumbered me>

Wonder-Man: "Wanda...what are you..."

Scarlet With: You are so very handsome, Simon. Did you think I never noticed? Does it not thrill you that I no longer hide my appreciation?

Wonder-Man: Wanda...what..don't...NO! NO!!!

As this dialog plays out, Wanda approaches Wonder-Man, stands facing him while ripping off his uniform (and scratching him in the process), and then her head lowers out of the panel. I seriously wish I had a scanner.

Maybe she's sticking her hand into his stomach or something equally agoninzing, but the art and dialog are both really suggestive, and frankly, knowing Byrne, I wouldn't put it past the old pervert. Later Simon is unwounded (except for the scratches on his chest that he recieved before he started screaming. The dialog isn't helpful. USAgent: "How could you hurt him like tht?" Wasp: "Simon are you all right?" Simon: "Don't ask, etc."

But at anyrate, Byrne made Witch go bad long before Bendis.

[jackalope]

Yes, Bryne wrote some scripts and plots that included these elements, but I don''t recall Byrne making her "mad" nor oral sex. She did scratch him (off camera) but I don't recall them being products of her unstable mind. Only that they were elements drawn from the demon and made whole by her only when she was thinking of them. Right?
By West Coast Avengers #55, Wanda had retreated into a catatonic state, a result of the loss of her children, husband, and the possession by the ancient black goo that guides evolution (???), and Acts of Venegance. Magneto comes to her, tears her bungalo off it's foundations, flies it into space. He has a eureka moment as he realizes how to awaken his daughter. Final scene of the episode features a maniacal Scarlet smashing the Westies into pulp.

In #56, "Darker Than Scarlet", it's made pretty clear that she's just plain flipped her lid thankjs to Magneto's fatherly care. That's one of the reasons I think House of M is a great idea. It really connects back to this story and the groundwork Byrne laid.

Sadly, I can't find my copy of #57.

[cousindick]

Cousin Dick is serious confused. He says he loves the old Goody Witch married to the Vision (as drawn by Byrne), and blames Bendis for making her a baddie.

This is patent nonsense. It was BYRNE who ended Vision and Wanda's relationship, it was BYRNE who revealed the children were products of Wanda's unstable mind, and it was BYRNE who had her first go mad and become a villain. It was also Byrne who had Wanda torture Simon Williams by performing oral sex on him.

So if anyone dirtied up Cousin Dick's princess Wanda, it was, in fact, John Byrne, during his West Coast Avengers run.

Hell, I may be seriously 'fused cause I'm sittin here in East Biggs, drinkin' Miller beer and typin' on an old Commodore 64. I'd forgotten about that Wonder Man business, I gotta revisit that one! In a way you prove my point: Wanda was the type to do evil sexually speakin', but she would never murder a feller! :rolleyes:

But my chief advisor, Joe Bob, who is also a member of AA and my designated driver, tells me this: Byrne also had Sue Storm dress up all sexy and go bonkers and take down the FF. Does that mean we're gonna get a mini-series called House of Storm?

[nubly]

It was also Byrne who had Wanda torture Simon Williams by performing oral sex on him.

man no wonder he broke off their relationship in the third avengers series. can you imagine being with a girl who doesnt give you pleasurable oral sex? :eek:

[DMike]

This is patent nonsense. It was BYRNE who ended Vision and Wanda's relationship, it was BYRNE who revealed the children were products of Wanda's unstable mind, and it was BYRNE who had her first go mad and become a villain.

Well technically, Lee had her become a villain decades before Byrne did.

[jackalope]

Well technically, Lee had her become a villain decades before Byrne did.
Heh heh, okay, you got me there. But I don't think she was really a villain when she was with the Brotherhood. She was more like a super-powered mutant gun moll. You know, eye-candy. Except the gangster's arm she was hanging off was her brother. She is a really nutty gal, isn't she?

At any rate, when Lee was handling her, she wasn't a credible threat to anyone. Lee was a bit sexist you know.

[kcekada]

As this dialog plays out, Wanda approaches Wonder-Man, stands facing him while ripping off his uniform (and scratching him in the process), and then her head lowers out of the panel.

HMMM...I'd suggest digging that issue out and looking at it again.

Wanda is ripping his clothes down the middle--from chest to stomach. It's implied that she continues to Simon's goodies. However, no where does it show her lowering her head. That's just fantasy. The way the scene was shown, it is more likely that Wanda's hand continued its journey...the gave little Simon a painful squeeze.

[Kirk G]

HMMM...I'd suggest digging that issue out and looking at it again.

Wanda is ripping his clothes down the middle--from chest to stomach. It's implied that she continues to Simon's goodies. However, no where does it show her lowering her head. That's just fantasy. The way the scene was shown, it is more likely that Wanda's hand continued its journey...the gave little Simon a painful squeeze.

Agreed, although it is also possible that she used her hex power... or the power to inflict a flaw retroactively.... etc. (Ohhh, the pain.... :mad: )

[Kirk G]

By West Coast Avengers #55, Wanda had retreated into a catatonic state, a result of the loss of her children, husband, and the possession by the ancient black goo that guides evolution (???), and Acts of Venegance. Magneto comes to her, tears her bungalo off it's foundations, flies it into space. He has a eureka moment as he realizes how to awaken his daughter. Final scene of the episode features a maniacal Scarlet smashing the Westies into pulp.

In #56, "Darker Than Scarlet", it's made pretty clear that she's just plain flipped her lid thankjs to Magneto's fatherly care. That's one of the reasons I think House of M is a great idea. It really connects back to this story and the groundwork Byrne laid.

Sadly, I can't find my copy of #57.
#57 "Family Reunion" is the last of the John Byrne inspired run. Quicksilver pretends to join the cabal, but convinces the trio to walk off without causing serious damage to Hank... and the team obviously needs to regroup before tackling them again. (It seems similar to FF #58-60, now that I think of it...) :D

[Kirk G]

Heh heh, okay, you got me there. But I don't think she was really a villain when she was with the Brotherhood. She was more like a super-powered mutant gun moll. You know, eye-candy. Except the gangster's arm she was hanging off was her brother. She is a really nutty gal, isn't she?

At any rate, when Lee was handling her, she wasn't a credible threat to anyone. Lee was a bit sexist you know.
Jackalope, you sound like you're from my generation! Your analysis is dead on, except, I read those earliest eleven issues of the original X-Men to say that Wanda could have been much worse, but was not convinced that Magneto was the right cause. I agree with the gun moll image, except, I felt she was more of a gal trophy for Mags, and between she and her brother, formed a complete conscience for the Evil team... hense, she never really cut loose, but when she did use her powers, she was effective. And didn't do so except to protect her brother and keep others from harm....
Right? :cool:

[Frank]

I liked it when Byrne turned her into a villain. It was the most exciting thing anyone had ever done with her. Finaly something was done with this characters, some growth and she was taking charge and this Wanda could have an interesting new important character for Marvel.

What was done recently sucked because Disassembled was bad, not because of her actions per se. For one thing, contrary to Byrne who made SW into a badass villainess, with Disassembled(and House of M) she`s still the helpless weak female victim since she doesn`t control anything. I don`t think it makes her character more interesting; it makes Magneto`s character more interesting, though.

[cousindick]

I liked it when Byrne turned her into a villain. It was the most exciting thing anyone had ever done with her. Finaly something was done with this characters, some growth and she was taking charge and this Wanda could have an interesting new important character for Marvel.

What was done recently sucked because Disassembled was bad, not because of her actions per se. For one thing, contrary to Byrne who made SW into a badass villainess, with Disassembled(and House of M) she`s still the helpless weak female victim since she doesn`t control anything. I don`t think it makes her character more interesting; it makes Magneto`s character more interesting, though.

There ya go, you summarized this perfectly and explained why I was right in the beginnin'! I am glad you hang around here. I bet you even been to college!