Autism / Asperger's Syndrome

[davidboring]

Does anyone here have any experience or knowledge of this in themselves or their family/friends? ( I have been diagnosed with it ). Thanks.

[StoneGold]

My mom, who up until recently was a special ed teacher, dealt with it a lot. She thinks my cousin might have Asperger's. Although, I find it hillarious personally, that the geek disease sounds so much like ass burger.

[J Dog]

I'm autistic, you know.

[Wesley Dodds]

I wouldn't be surprised if I had Asperger's, frankly.

Have you heard how much I hate Bush?

[davidboring]

lol..but we call it Arse - Burgers over here ;)

[Tages]

Though i have not been officially diagnosed, I was told by a psychiatric professional that I have a very good possibility of having Asperger's.

It would make sense. I'm bad at relating with people and good with memorizing encyclopedic amounts of information about any given topic of interest. I have the bad habit of not making eye contact when I talk to people. Emotions generally confuse me.

Here (http://www.aspergers.com/aspcrit.htm) is a good site to read up on the disorder. Also, try asking Doc Kramer when you get a chance. Here's something he once had to say about Asperger's:

Asperger's Syndrome is a high functioning variant of autism. Aspergers individuals don't tend to have the bizarre posturing and ritualistic physical routines, and they are usually of at least average IQ, and often very high-IQ, whereas a lot of autistic people are mentally retarded. They tend to have exceptionally well-developed knowledge and sometimes exceptional abilities - savantism - within a few specific areas, and their interest in these areas is obsessive. Said areas are often unusual or eccentric, and the degree of interest is certainly unusual. These folk tend to have poor social skills and difficulty really understanding emotions (theirs, and especially those of others) and relating to people. Their speech tends to be rather odd... atonal, repetitive, strange cadence, etc. They tend to be physically clumsy, particularly in terms of gross motor skills. Some of these folk are interested in social relationships, but their lack of understanding of emotions, limited social skills, obsessive and odd interests, etc. makes it difficult for them to relate to others, and they tend to end up isolated. Others aren't really interested in others at all. Such folk can sometimes learn social skills which allow them to behave more appropriately, and that is usually one of the main tasks in doing therapy with such folk, but some many don't seem to benefit much.

[Sam]

Another probable aspy here, though I've never bothered to get formally diagnosed. Why bother? It's not like they can give me a pill that magically gives me social skills.

Er, they can't do that, right Jeff? If they can, I need to get my ass to a shrink.

[Slam_Bradley]

My ex's nephew has Aspargers. My only knowledge is anecdotal to him. I know that he goes to school, scouts, etc...and leads an essentially normal life. According to the ex sis-in-law, Napoleon Dynamite is a great look at a teen with Aspargers.

[Justin Davis]

My ex's nephew has Aspargers. My only knowledge is anecdotal to him. I know that he goes to school, scouts, etc...and leads an essentially normal life. According to the ex sis-in-law, Napoleon Dynamite is a great look at a teen with Aspargers.

Never thought of it like that. Suddenly, I have a whole new appreciation and understanding of the film.

I've taught a few students that I think may have it. One, I'm pretty sure had it as he really didn't get along with anyone and was quick to anger. More than a few times, he'd come into the room before class even begun and say, "Mr. Davis, I'm just telling you now that if I'm about ready to hit some of the jerks in this class and if anyone says something to me, I'm going to punch them in their faces." Didn't always know how to react. Mostly, I just kept things as calm as I could.

[davidboring]

Most aspies aren't violent or quick to anger. Some are, but the idea that most are is an error bought about by the media attention given to the ones that have commited crimes. Statistically, autistic people are much more often the victims of crime.

[FBHthelizardmage]

I've know a lot of Asperger's people. Dyslexic school managed to pick a lot of them up. They aren't so bad

[Justin Davis]

Most aspies aren't violent or quick to anger. Some are, but the idea that most are is an error bought about by the media attention given to the ones that have commited crimes. Statistically, autistic people are much more often the victims of crime.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply as much as I did with the above. What I meant is that he was anti-social and didn't know how to deal with it.

[davidboring]

Yeah Its ok. It's just that there was a documentary about Asperger's on TV last week which showed basically all aspies as violent and scary, added with the aspie guy who went to jail last year for murdering a young girl, it hasn't been very good press lately.

[Nitmo]

I have been diagnosed with Asperger's and then rediagnosed with PDD/NOS (Pervasive Development Disorder/Not Otherwise Specified) which falls under the autistic umbrella.

Below is a good link:
http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/

and for those of you who want to know what it can be like (from that site I linked):

Asperger Syndrome or (Asperger's Disorder) is a neurobiological disorder named for a Viennese physician, Hans Asperger, who in 1944 published a paper which described a pattern of behaviors in several young boys who had normal intelligence and language development, but who also exhibited autistic-like behaviors and marked deficiencies in social and communication skills. In spite of the publication of his paper in the 1940's, it wasn't until 1994 that Asperger Syndrome was added to the DSM IV and only in the past few years has AS been recognized by professionals and parents.

Individuals with AS can exhibit a variety of characteristics and the disorder can range from mild to severe. Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most certainly not the result of "improper parenting".

By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals (although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific area. Because of their high degree of functionality and their naiveté, those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily become victims of teasing and bullying. While language development seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and some children sound like "little professors." However, persons with AS can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social context.

At this time there is a great deal of debate as to exactly where AS fits. It is presently described as an autism spectrum disorder and Uta Frith, in her book AUTISM AND ASPERGER'S SYNDROME, described AS individuals as "having a dash of Autism". Some professionals feel that AS is the same as High Functioning Autism, while others feel that it is better described as a Nonverbal Learning Disability. AS shares many of the characteristics of PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder; Not otherwise specified), HFA, and NLD and because it was virtually unknown until a few years ago, many individuals either received an incorrect diagnosis or remained undiagnosed. For example, it is not at all uncommon for a child who was initially diagnosed with ADD or ADHD be re-diagnosed with AS. In addition, some individuals who were originally diagnosed with HFA or PDD-NOS are now being given the AS diagnosis and many individuals have a dual diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome and High Functioning Autism.

For your information, I've included below a copy of the DSM IV Description. In addition, I've also added a more down-to-earth description that was originally posted to the autism listserv.

DSM IV description
Diagnostic Criteria For 299.80 Asperger's Disorder
A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction
failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
lack of social or emotional reciprocity
B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
persistent preoccupation with parts of objects
C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning
D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood

F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia

[Nitmo]

davidboring: where are you from?

[Infinity Chameleon]

I have a cousin who is *severely* autistic.

And pretty much that entire description Tages posted fits me like a scuba suit.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Does anyone here have any experience or knowledge of this in themselves or their family/friends? ( I have been diagnosed with it ). Thanks.


I work with a fair number of autistic/Asperger's clients, though it isn't an area in which I'd claim to be an expert.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Er, they can't do that, right Jeff? If they can, I need to get my ass to a shrink.

No. Therapy can help with social skills training, but no skills-providing or personality pills. Thankfully.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Most aspies aren't violent or quick to anger. Some are, but the idea that most are is an error bought about by the media attention given to the ones that have commited crimes. Statistically, autistic people are much more often the victims of crime.

People with Asperger's are not generally violent, but individuals with typical autism do have very high rates of assaultive behavior, usually when their routines are disrupted. Of course, this doesn't prevent them from also being victimized, and that does happen, too - all too frequently.

Here's a statistic which always turns my stomach. We know that sexual victimization is all too prevalent in society as a whole, and it's widely reported that probably 20-25% of women are sexually victimized or exploited in some manner by early adulthood.... but the rates for those with developmental disabilities (autism and related disorders, mental retardation) are much, much higher. Studies of DD adults in institutional and residential settings suggest that numbers as high as 65-75% have been sexually victimized or exploited at some time or another.

[Sanagi]

I wouldn't be surprised if I had Asperger's, frankly.And pretty much that entire description Tages posted fits me like a scuba suit.It sounds pretty familiar to me, too. Maybe it's a reaction to pressures of modern society... kind of thing...?

[eJm]

Put me down as someone who is Autistic. Having said that, if you met me in real life, I don't think you would be able to tell from all the progress I have made.

I also have a twin who is more severly Autistic than I am but we are working on getting him to properly communicate. Except for the fact that the Special Needs school he's going to is messing him up.

[davidboring]

davidboring: where are you from?

England, Midlands

[Sam]

No. Therapy can help with social skills training, but no skills-providing or personality pills. Thankfully.

This might sound weird coming from a paranoid like me, but I'd totally try out personality pills. Sure, I might lose my distinct identity and surrender myself to some pharmacist's perception of normalcy, granted, but on the other hand, dating would be nice.

[Sheldon]

Four years ago I worked at a summer day camp with children who had autism. They had various levels of severity, but I really enjoyed it. One little guy had a facination with electric fans. He could tell you everything about them, and if he could would be happy staring at one spinning his whole life. When the camp was out on a day trip and we needed to be somewhere quickly the camp counsellors would have to come up with creative distraction if we noticed a fan in the area. Otherwise he would insist on staying there for a long time.

An interesting novel I read "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time" by Mark Haddon is written from the perspective of a teenager with autism. Its a good read.

[Gideon Quinn]

And pretty much that entire description Tages posted fits me like a scuba suit.It fits me as well.

[J Dog]

This is a very intresting situation, & I understand two types of Autistic spectrum disorder.

The first is where the brain is wired to where the person is made to be a genius, but he/she can't reach true potential since it interferes with basic things like being focused or understanding what you hear. Consider Dustin Hoffman's character in "Rainman".

The second is where the brain is destroyed (or improperly wired). The person is alive, but can't fend for him/herself.

This might be reversable, since there is a reasonable link between mercury in immunizations & autism, according to an Indiana congressman. As for autism in birth, uh....

[Super Hero Guy]

I've been told that by a doctor that I COULD have Aspergers. Reading through that some of those things sound like me, others are WAY off.

[Zeta]

I have Aspergers. Which is why most of my relationships start or end in cyberspace.

[Pepsigirl]

I wouldn't be surprised if I had Asperger's.

[Warclam Mom]

Hi Davidboring,
My son has Asperger's Syndrome (AS; sometimes called Asperger's Disorder - AD)- he's 19 now, and like you, loves comics, especially webcomics. You probably know from your own interests that AS people tend to be very visual, so it's not surprising that comics appeal to them.

There are some great sites out there. Check OASIS and ASPEN. Dr. Tony Attwood has an amazing book on Asperger's, and it has just been revised and rereleased. Good luck in finding out more. My own feeling, having lived with my son for 19 years and having worked with a few other people with AS, is that there are lots of strengths with this syndrome, and plenty of strategies and help for the challenges.

By the way, folks, Asperger is a German name, properly pronounced OSS-PER-GURR. There is really no need to say it ASS-BURGER.

[hamboy]

I have aspergers. And I'm not offended by people who call it ass burgers. It's only a joke.

[cactusmaac]

Aspies being on the Internet does help explain a lot of the stuff you see.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Aspies being on the Internet does help explain a lot of the stuff you see.

On one level, Aspergers folk are often more comfortable with online interactions, because these don't depend as much on nonverbal cues and eye contact and other factors which Asperger's folk find difficult to understand, pick up on and/or perform. That puts them on a level closer to that of everyone else on the internet, in that they have to go with what is typed, without the benefit of gestures or eye contact or intonation or body language or any of that. In fact, seeing how much the lack of those other aspects of communication contributes to misunderstandings and false assumptions might help the average person understand a bit more what it's like for Asperger's folk in normal social situations.

The downside for Aspergers folk, of course, is that too much focus on online interaction doesn't well prepare them for face-to-face interaction, or help them develop the social and communication skills which allow for more successful personal interaction.

[Winslow]

We have a hyperactive boy with aspergers in our scout troop.

He's really smart - just socially difficult to deal with. He doesn't realize the consequences of his actions, like being loud and silly at night when people are trying to sleep.

Is asperger's related to ADD? or ADHD? anyone know?

[JeffreyWKramer]

We have a hyperactive boy with aspergers in our scout troop.

He's really smart - just socially difficult to deal with. He doesn't realize the consequences of his actions, like being loud and silly at night when people are trying to sleep.

Is asperger's related to ADD? or ADHD? anyone know?

There is an abnormally high co-occurrence of ADHD in folk with Aspergers, and with all autism-spectrum disorders. It may be that some of the same neurological processes are involved with the two sets of conditions, or it may simply be that the neurological abnormalities which underlie autism-spectrum disorders make individuals more vulnerable to having other neurological conditions as well. This second possibility is clearly seen with some other conditions. People with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia have higher rates of seizure disorders than do the general population - which is a big problem, given that most anti-psychotic meds and some mood-stabilizing meds lower seizure threshold. People with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia also tend to develop dementia conditions at an earlier age than people without those disorders.

[moebius]

Though i have not been officially diagnosed, I was told by a psychiatric professional that I have a very good possibility of having Asperger's.

It would make sense. I'm bad at relating with people and good with memorizing encyclopedic amounts of information about any given topic of interest. I have the bad habit of not making eye contact when I talk to people. Emotions generally confuse me.


Same here. My brother has been diagnosed with some form of autism, probably a little "lower functioning" than Aspergers as we're trying to transition him into assisted living as my mother gets older.

I've refused diagnosis, though I have most of the symptoms and can recognize them fairly well (intense, focused interests; bad at picking up emotinal cues or understanding emotions). My profession (acadaemia) seems like a good place for people like me.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

On one level, Aspergers folk are often more comfortable with online interactions, because these don't depend as much on nonverbal cues and eye contact and other factors which Asperger's folk find difficult to understand, pick up on and/or perform. That puts them on a level closer to that of everyone else on the internet, in that they have to go with what is typed, without the benefit of gestures or eye contact or intonation or body language or any of that. In fact, seeing how much the lack of those other aspects of communication contributes to misunderstandings and false assumptions might help the average person understand a bit more what it's like for Asperger's folk in normal social situations.

The downside for Aspergers folk, of course, is that too much focus on online interaction doesn't well prepare them for face-to-face interaction, or help them develop the social and communication skills which allow for more successful personal interaction.

Those are very fair points, though recently, I've been trying to step a little more outside my own AS-comfort zone and speak to some of my co-workers (though it's still not really initiated by me). One of them even-- when I brought up my condition*-- mentioned his ex-girlfriend and her father work with folks like me.



*it was in a part of the conversation mentioning some books I'm reading right now (John Elder Robison's recent memoir Look Me In The Eye, which led to me just coming out and saying I had AS as well)

[Shellhead]

On one level, Aspergers folk are often more comfortable with online interactions, because these don't depend as much on nonverbal cues and eye contact and other factors which Asperger's folk find difficult to understand, pick up on and/or perform. That puts them on a level closer to that of everyone else on the internet, in that they have to go with what is typed, without the benefit of gestures or eye contact or intonation or body language or any of that. In fact, seeing how much the lack of those other aspects of communication contributes to misunderstandings and false assumptions might help the average person understand a bit more what it's like for Asperger's folk in normal social situations.

The downside for Aspergers folk, of course, is that too much focus on online interaction doesn't well prepare them for face-to-face interaction, or help them develop the social and communication skills which allow for more successful personal interaction.

The current season of America's Top Model includes a girl named Heather who has Asperger's. She is a tall, shy brunette working to overcome poor posture from hunching over a laptop for so many years. Otherwise, she seems pretty functional, given that she's doing really well in the competition. She avoided looking straight at the camera for the first few episodes, until the judges encouraged her to do so. So far, Heather only struggled with one challenge, which involved posing while being lifted by off the ice by a professional figure skater. Aside from that episode, she has consistently been in the top three each week.

[Asa]

Autism, ADD, ADHD,Asperger syndrome, are all called pervasive development Of the learning box of the brain.

[Tommy]

Yep. I have AS as well. Dating makes me cry.

[Fenris]

I wouldn't be surprised if I had Asperger's, frankly.

Have you heard how much I hate Bush?

You should start a blog!

Okay, somewhat remotely on topic: I recently read Temple Grandin's book Animals in Translation: Using the Mysteries of Autism to Decode Animal Behavior (
http://www.amazon.com/Animals-Translation-Mysteries-Autism-Behavior/dp/0743247698). She claims that the somewhat-different neurological wiring of autistics gives her a particular insight into animal psychology. In particular, she's much less abstracted than nonautistics, and intensely visual; and these tend to be traits that many animals share.

(Which sounds kind of dippy, I guess, when I just lay the claim out like that. But she makes a living as a consultant on this basis, and apparently succeeds in solving complicated animal-training problems that nonautistic people fail at; more to the point, her book is really interesting, both in its discussions of autism and of animal thinking.)

õ
End of plug!

[Ben Morgan]

My little brother has it

[Wild Card]

I have Aspergers Syndrome. It makes it hard for me to find work.

[hamboy]

I have Aspergers Syndrome. It makes it hard for me to find work.
Realy? Sh*t.

[Wild Card]

Realy? Sh*t.

Yeah, 2 1/2 years ago I was laid off form a job I had for 18 years and the only thing I been able to find is temp jobs. Since my communication skills are zilch, talking to people I don't know is really tough.

[Gilda Dent]

I've been told by one former therapist that I probably do have Aspergers, and by my current one that I very likely don't, that social phobia combined with an obsessive personality manifests in much the same fashion and the two can sometimes be difficult to tell apart.

But it matters little what name we give it, she says, as the social skills I have to learn are the same regardless of where the impairment initially comes from.

[Asa]

The criterias that are utilized to diagnose these PDD's are very wide. Noone should rely strickly on a psychologist or a psychiatrist to diagnose these disorders. You also need to seek the services of a neurologist also. Most social disorders and OCD can easily be caused by a traumatic experence, and can also be confused with more severe issues, and misdiagnosed.

[Gilda Dent]

Most social disorders and OCD can easily be caused by a traumatic experence, and can also be confused with more severe issues, and misdiagnosed.

This is the reasoning my current therapist uses for eliminating Aspergers, that my social dysfunction is likely a product of childhood experiences.

[JeffreyWKramer]

The criterias that are utilized to diagnose these PDD's are very wide. Noone should rely strickly on a psychologist or a psychiatrist to diagnose these disorders. You also need to seek the services of a neurologist also.
The problem with that recommendation is that to date, there's no specific neurological criteria or tests that clearly confirm or disconfirm the diagnosis of autistic-spectrum disorders. There might be someday, but not right now. Certain neurological phenomena and signs are common among some of the PDD disorders, but none are universally accepted as a sure sign either way. The diagnosis of these disorders is based on behavioral patterns, which are very much the province of those trained in the behavioral fields and psychiatry.

Most social disorders and OCD can easily be caused by a traumatic experence, and can also be confused with more severe issues, and misdiagnosed.
Well, you're partially right. Traumatic experiences can cause manifestations of behavior and symptoms which are hard to differentiate from some of the pervasive developmental disorders, among other things. Differential diagnosis can be a tricky thing, and even experts often disagree about specific diagnosis.

The idea that correct diagnoses of these conditions requires a neurologist is complete nonsense, though. Clinical psychologists and social workers and psychiatrists generally have more familiarity with the DSM standards for diagnosis of mental disorders than do neurologists.

[twilight]

Looking at the all of people in this thread alone who have Asperger's(now that I know what it is it sounds almost like I have it) or have someone in their lives with it,is this a really common thing?

--Twi

[hamboy]

Looking at the all of people in this thread alone who have Asperger's(now that I know what it is it sounds almost like I have it) or have someone in their lives with it,is this a really common thing?

--Twi
No, It's just that comics are somethig that interest a lot of people with aspergers. go to a forum that isn't about "geek interests", and their will be a lot less.

[dingo]

Looking at the all of people in this thread alone who have Asperger's(now that I know what it is it sounds almost like I have it) or have someone in their lives with it,is this a really common thing?

--Twi

You remember Ryan from the store? I'm pretty sure he had Aspergers.

[twilight]

You remember Ryan from the store? I'm pretty sure he had Aspergers.

Was he the one with Ben Reilly?

-Twi

[dingo]

Was he the one with Ben Reilly?

-Twi

The very same.

[Asa]

The problem with that recommendation is that to date, there's no specific neurological criteria or tests that clearly confirm or disconfirm the diagnosis of autistic-spectrum disorders.
My appologies perhaps I was not clear enough. Your right about there is no test that clearly confirm the diagnoses. which is why you should not really on just one, and you need many test to be put together to properly diagnose them. Many schools are now inplementing test to students. It helps to understand were the learning problem lies.

[Gilda Dent]

Looking at the all of people in this thread alone who have Asperger's(now that I know what it is it sounds almost like I have it) or have someone in their lives with it,is this a really common thing?

--Twi

Sampling error. People with Aspergers often have an obsession, or a focus into which they put an inordinate amount of energy. Comic books, roleplaying games, videogames and so forth often end up as this focus, in part because they're designed to feed into or induce obsessive behaviors.

[MissKale]

Sampling error. People with Aspergers often have an obsession, or a focus into which they put an inordinate amount of energy. Comic books, roleplaying games, videogames and so forth often end up as this focus, in part because they're designed to feed into or induce obsessive behaviors.

There's also the question as to whether less people are diagnosed because they're lucky and are in a social situation where there are a group of other people with it. Think about the "geek table" concept for example. In a social environment like that it won't matter as much about social skill impairment because all of them are impaired to a degree.

My mother thinks I have asperger's mainly due to the fact that I was very good at memorizing things and I had problems making friends because I went into situations assuming that there would be people with similar interests. And it might be true. But I feel like a lot of my social impairment was caused rather than natural. I went through a couple schools in sequence where I had stuff happen like shoes getting thrown at me, awards stolen and burned, classic elementary and middle school basically.

There are a lot of other things that also don't hold true with me and the connection to aspergers. I'm very empathetic towards people and always have been. I have always had a lot of interests, not just one or two. I don't have any of the repetetive movements.

Also, the one thing that definitely makes me feel that my psychiatrist is right with the bipolar diagnosis rather than the asperger's is my track record with interviews. I don't consistantly have problems with them. And its not like I learned how to give a good interview after just not having the social skills for them.

In all cases for an interview I get equally prepared before I go. But there are some times that I'm just far more open in posture, I smile, I laugh, I'm animated I make jokes and reference happy positive stories. Other times, I'll have an interview and I speak weakly, I avoid eye contact, hunched shoulders etc.

And there isn't even a correlation to how confident I am on my ability to get the job. It just happens. And as far as I've read up on asperger's there aren't those sorts of switches unless strong confidence is involved. Even then, I was told there's usually a problem in knowing when its appropriate to stop and let the other person talk.

Oh, though it is generally true:

"On the internet, everyone has Asperger's"

;)

[Paul McEnery]

There's also the question as to whether less people are diagnosed because they're lucky and are in a social situation where there are a group of other people with it. Think about the "geek table" concept for example. In a social environment like that it won't matter as much about social skill impairment because all of them are impaired to a degree.

My mother thinks I have asperger's mainly due to the fact that I was very good at memorizing things and I had problems making friends because I went into situations assuming that there would be people with similar interests. And it might be true. But I feel like a lot of my social impairment was caused rather than natural. I went through a couple schools in sequence where I had stuff happen like shoes getting thrown at me, awards stolen and burned, classic elementary and middle school basically.

There are a lot of other things that also don't hold true with me and the connection to aspergers. I'm very empathetic towards people and always have been. I have always had a lot of interests, not just one or two. I don't have any of the repetetive movements.

Also, the one thing that definitely makes me feel that my psychiatrist is right with the bipolar diagnosis rather than the asperger's is my track record with interviews. I don't consistantly have problems with them. And its not like I learned how to give a good interview after just not having the social skills for them.

In all cases for an interview I get equally prepared before I go. But there are some times that I'm just far more open in posture, I smile, I laugh, I'm animated I make jokes and reference happy positive stories. Other times, I'll have an interview and I speak weakly, I avoid eye contact, hunched shoulders etc.

And there isn't even a correlation to how confident I am on my ability to get the job. It just happens. And as far as I've read up on asperger's there aren't those sorts of switches unless strong confidence is involved. Even then, I was told there's usually a problem in knowing when its appropriate to stop and let the other person talk.

Oh, though it is generally true:

"On the internet, everyone has Asperger's"

;)

IOW -- Lookee here, we got ourselves a reader.

[Paul McEnery]

Aspy's is something I wonder about. Like MissKale, I'm really empathetic, but there is something missing, and that's the ability to perceive convention or conformity. It's an extra bit of freedom, I suppose; but at the same time, I'm quite unable to take it into account when understanding other people's motivation.

Is that an Aspy thing?

[Mike Pothier]

Based on what is written here, it sounds very, very likely that I have Asperger's Syndrome. I had my wife read some of the information on it, and she spent the whole time pointing out one similarity after another.

I have little to no social skills at all, and I'm incredibly lucky to have a good job as it is. My wife actually performed a test to see if I could spot different social cues during our conversations. I couldn't find a single one, which seemed to amaze her. Also, most of our fights are a result of my inability to understand her feelings or misinterpret what she is saying.

[Asa]

Also, most of our fights are a result of my inability to understand her feelings or misinterpret what she is saying.
That is a clear example of your learning box in the brain, people with aspergers are wired differently.

[Asa]

there is something missing, and that's the ability to perceive convention or conformity.Is that an Aspy thing?
Yes, another example, and It is always best to be tested appropiatley. don't rely on just one doctor diagnosis for this.

[J Dog]

If you are a bit concenred to see if your child has autism, I strongly recommend early testing (I wasn't diagnosed until I was 4).

The big issue that one may face is that an autistic person may and will be regarded as something else. They will be picked on, and harassed. And that frustrates me, because I knew it all too well.

[Paul McEnery]

Quick plug for the best fictional work I've read on the subject. Elizabeth Moon's The Speed of Dark.

And I'm beginning to wonder if Asperger's (like schizophrenia before it) is really one thing.

[Corrina]

I'm beginning to think that most brain misfires due to chemistry are really lesser versions of more serious mental illness and what we're treating are the symptons rather than the overall problem. In other words, what Paul said.

For instance, mood disorder also called bipolar disorder, can cause ADD or ADHD symptons and some psychiatrists are looking into ADD or ADHD not as a primary diagnosis but a sympton of a larger problem.
The truth is, we really just don't know enough about how chemicals and nerves interact in the brain enough. If you break your arm, doctors know enough about how an arm is constructed to put it back together in pretty much exactly the same order. Or, if there's some permanent damage, they know what it is.

But all they can see with some chemical imbalance/brain misfunctions is the end result, which is that the metaphorical arm is broken and certain things don't work. No one really has a definitive answer right now as to how to fix that which is broken--only trial and error with cognitive therapy and medications that seem to help some and not others. It's trial and error, like bracing an arm without being sure whether its broken or you've got tendon or ligament damage.

And then throw in the fact that all brains seems to work slightly differently....and you've got a field where people have serious problems and confusing answers.

[Nikita]

Yeah Its ok. It's just that there was a documentary about Asperger's on TV last week which showed basically all aspies as violent and scary, added with the aspie guy who went to jail last year for murdering a young girl, it hasn't been very good press lately.

The media really sucks sometimes at portraying certain disorders.

I really like the interviews Jenny McCarthy has been doing recently about her son and his struggles with autism. She's helping to add more awareness to the disorder and to keep a more positive face about it, instead of all the negative stuff. Some parents have a problem with her talking about the "special diet" she's used for her son and claiming it's helped him. But her view is, why not? What has she got to lose by trying everything she can for him, especially early on? I'm just glad a celebrity is talking about it openly. I think that will help promote more research and money into these disorders since it's getting more publicity now.

One of the things I've read about Autism, is the earlier it's "caught", certain types of treatments can be started and then they are more likely to be helpful as the child gets older. But they don't work for everyone. I saw something on the news recently about them wanting doctors to screen all children for autism now? Screening them twice at 6 and 18 months old? Since apparently various forms of autism are in like 1 out of 100 kids now, compared to 1 out of 1000 years ago?


I'm autistic, you know.

I've know a lot of Asperger's people. Dyslexic school managed to pick a lot of them up. They aren't so bad

I know a young man who has Asperger's who is the son of one of guys who attends my bipolar support group. He sits with us in meetings sometimes. He does get angry and shove his dad and mom somtimes, and can have "temper tantrums", but overall he's not violent. He has various OCD type obsessions, and things like that. But he's able to work a part time job. He just sees the world differently then the rest of us.

Put me down as someone who is Autistic. Having said that, if you met me in real life, I don't think you would be able to tell from all the progress I have made.

I also have a twin who is more severly Autistic than I am but we are working on getting him to properly communicate. Except for the fact that the Special Needs school he's going to is messing him up.

I have Aspergers. Which is why most of my relationships start or end in cyberspace.

I have aspergers. And I'm not offended by people who call it ass burgers. It's only a joke.

Yep. I have AS as well. Dating makes me cry.

I have Aspergers Syndrome. It makes it hard for me to find work.

Wow. Put me down as being honored to know all of you then. Clearly, you're all amazing people and I'm glad you're here on CBR with us. :)

[Nikita]

There's also the question as to whether less people are diagnosed because they're lucky and are in a social situation where there are a group of other people with it. Think about the "geek table" concept for example. In a social environment like that it won't matter as much about social skill impairment because all of them are impaired to a degree.

My mother thinks I have asperger's mainly due to the fact that I was very good at memorizing things and I had problems making friends because I went into situations assuming that there would be people with similar interests. And it might be true. But I feel like a lot of my social impairment was caused rather than natural. I went through a couple schools in sequence where I had stuff happen like shoes getting thrown at me, awards stolen and burned, classic elementary and middle school basically.

There are a lot of other things that also don't hold true with me and the connection to aspergers. I'm very empathetic towards people and always have been. I have always had a lot of interests, not just one or two. I don't have any of the repetetive movements.

Also, the one thing that definitely makes me feel that my psychiatrist is right with the bipolar diagnosis rather than the asperger's is my track record with interviews. I don't consistantly have problems with them. And its not like I learned how to give a good interview after just not having the social skills for them.

In all cases for an interview I get equally prepared before I go. But there are some times that I'm just far more open in posture, I smile, I laugh, I'm animated I make jokes and reference happy positive stories. Other times, I'll have an interview and I speak weakly, I avoid eye contact, hunched shoulders etc.

And there isn't even a correlation to how confident I am on my ability to get the job. It just happens. And as far as I've read up on asperger's there aren't those sorts of switches unless strong confidence is involved. Even then, I was told there's usually a problem in knowing when its appropriate to stop and let the other person talk.

Oh, though it is generally true:

"On the internet, everyone has Asperger's"

;)




Excellent post as always, MissKale.

[PatrickG]

Count me as another Aspie reporting for duty.


One of the things I've read about Autism, is the earlier it's "caught", certain types of treatments can be started and then they are more likely to be helpful as the child gets older. But they don't work for everyone. I saw something on the news recently about them wanting doctors to screen all children for autism now? Screening them twice at 6 and 18 months old? Since apparently various forms of autism are in like 1 out of 100 kids now, compared to 1 out of 1000 years ago?

There's always a potential screening bias there.

Virtually anyone of great importance to humanity has been suggested as an Aspie.

My crackpot theory is that autism (high or low functioning) was the default mode of human behavior up until a few hundred years ago and that non-autistics are the mutant strain who discovered strange new social cues and found they could manipulate, coerce, dominate and outbreed the autistic majority.

Read the letters people wrote 100+ years ago. Read their novels. Look at their art. Note their interests and how, well, everyone had interests and hobbies and preoccupations. And how beyond that, society seemed to favor trades and individuals with specialized knowledge, capable of formal expression (that would be pedantic by modern standards) and admired for their passion regarding ideas. Look at how marriage was structured, the ideas on love, academia, etc. Look at warfare, ideas on fairness and conduct.

And then look at the things people argued passionately over. Look at the things that people killed and died over. They were often ideological or semantic disputes.

Society would kill you for your views on the shape of the earth or the particular nuances to which you ascribed to your religious beliefs. And men killed eachother in duels over semantic or ideological issues.

Which segues into the next point...


I know a young man who has Asperger's who is the son of one of guys who attends my bipolar support group. He sits with us in meetings sometimes. He does get angry and shove his dad and mom somtimes, and can have "temper tantrums", but overall he's not violent. He has various OCD type obsessions, and things like that. But he's able to work a part time job. He just sees the world differently then the rest of us.


The "meltdowns" are an issue. Aspies are more likely to be taken advantage of or victimized than non-Aspies. But we have a strong sense of what things ought to be and how things ought to be. If you upset that, we feel what, for non-Aspies would require a state of mortal peril to induce.

A conversation about free will or even the ethics of how a first person shooter ought or ought not be designed and played can be of mortal importance to an Aspie. Non-Aspies don't get this. And they push and prod and poke. And the Aspie can fly into a blind rage.

And some alleged Aspies have killed in this state of rage, in theory.

I can tell you right now that a conversation over law, Shakespeare, Copyright, economics, government, comics or video games can turn my adrenaline on, get me feverishly upset (literally), cause me physical pain (cramped stomach and such) and get me so worked up that before I know it, I'm covered in feathers from the pillow I just beat the stuffing out of (part of why I use memory foam now) or I discover that my hands are scratched or bruised from beating them against eachother.

And it usually happens because I take the topic very seriously and elucidate my view on how to properly systematize, study, balance and research the topic and then somebody just plows through with a charismatic but dull approach or a pragmatic concern that I have no tolerance for.

I've never hurt anybody else. I'm not even sure how to begin if I wanted to having never been a fighter. But I CAN see the dangerous side of this since I've had tantrums (usually in private) that result in bruises, cuts and even the occasional broken bone. Never directed the brunt of it at somebody else but I can see where less socialized Aspies (and I've been told I'm fairly socialized) might.

I've quit a couple of jobs in part because I wanted to literally punch someone over the choice of uniforms, which I felt were unfathomably inefficient and uncomfortable. To the point where I'd spend the ten or fifteen minute drive to work screaming obscenities in my car, fantasizing what I'd tell human relations about their uniform if I had the courage to. And that was my reaction pretty much every day to a light, ironed, starched button up shirt and slacks, every day for three years. I'd lose my voice screaming some days.

Never said anything to a manager aside from occasional snide remarks about the uniform though.

[PatrickG]

BTW...

Having read Tony Attwood's excellent books on Asperger's after my parents read them and noted the similarities as well as read up on AS on the web, I find there do tend to be certain traits that I have that are associated with many AS people:

- Idiosyncratic wardrobe/organizational skills. (Personally, I hate shoelaces and tucked in shirts and I spent years of my life refusing to wear anything but sweat pants.)

- Idiosyncratic reactions to noises. (Vacuum cleaners drive me batty.)

- Preference to cold temperatures. (I don't generally notice cold unless I'm noticibly shivering or in pain... but heat/humidity drives me nuts. There are some interesting observations on this trait coupled with Aspies' social tendencies towards matriarchy or anarchy and the physiological correlations with large head circumference and overbite in the Neanderthal Theory of Autism -- which is likely bunk but entertaining bunk.)

Personally, I like mixing the Neanderthal Theory of Autism with other crackpot theories regarding Neanderthals (ie. the Biblical Goliath and other "children of angels and men" being Neanderthals or Atlantis or other great lost utopias being Neanderthals) for my own little alternate bent on history. I put zero stock in the credibility of the resulting "history" but it does create an enjoyable yarn in which I have a proud and noble ethnic heritage. A total fiction but one I enjoy concocting in much the same vein as Washington and his cherry tree and his wooden teeth. It's nice to have a mythology to cling to, I suppose, as long as I can step back and recognize it as such.