Missing teen in Aruba: Whose fault?

[phoenixrising]

I don't know how many of you have been watching the seemingly non-stop coverage (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/07/missing.teen.ap/) of the Alabama teeenager missing in Aruba....but I have and with quite a bit of disgust.

I wonder why absolutely no one out there has asked what I think is a fairly obvious question:

What the hell kind of school takes a bunch of high school kids to Aruba?
It isn't a Spanish club trip to Europe or a science trip to the Pacific, what was the ligitimate educational purpose of taking of bunch of teens to one of the biggest party destinations in the world?

More importantly, what was a high school girl doing with that little supervision? She was last seen by her classmates at when they were dancing at a notorious party bar (one of those franchise place slike they have in Cancun, etc.), when she left - unsupervised - with some island boys. Hm.

Doesn't anyone think that maybe it was a really dumb idea to take kids, no matter how smart/reliable/perfect they are (those kids were the biggest partiers at my HS), to a place that exists for the purpose of partying dangerously? And isn't there a possibility that we have an international uproar created by a high school girl who partied herself right into a bad tourist situation?

Or am I just cynical?

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

No, you and I are as one on this issue. I said the same thing to my wife when I first heard about this story. Aruba? Great place to take a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds with a minimum of supervision. Terrific school function. I certainly see the educational value of learning how to do shots while upside down with your clothes off.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I certainly see the educational value of learning how to do shots while upside down with your clothes off.

Maybe this is part of that vocational program which teaches skills needed for specialized work in some Nevada counties or as an entertainer for bachelor parties.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

Maybe this is part of that vocational program which teaches skills needed for specialized work in some Nevada counties or as an entertainer for bachelor parties.

Ah, I see. It's especially useful for those kids who don't go on to college to learn such skills.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Ah, I see. It's especially useful for those kids who don't go on to college to learn such skills.


Not everyone can afford college, and some people just can't wait to get right to work!

[LtMarvel]

The Senior trip had a long tradition in my high school until insurance issues closed it down. We traveled from Eugene, MO (look it up) to Florida (Daytona, Disneyworld, and Silver Springs). Parents and teachers went with. The parties were non-stop.

Literally, it was the first time for many students to leave Missouri. (For me, it was my first and last try at grits. Yuck.)

The students watched out for each other. One student, a midget, got too much booze and her friends helped her vomit. One boy went out on the beach at night and we had to track him down.

My understanding is that Aruba isn't known for crime. Heck, some twenty years after my high school graduation and I've never been to a country that you couldn't drive to.

[Charles RB]

what was the ligitimate educational purpose of taking of bunch of teens to one of the biggest party destinations in the world?

They're all Music students being exposed to club music as an example of what not to do?

[Tadhg Adams]

Our schools won't even let the kids take a field trip to the zoo that's just down the block.

I do find it weird in this day and age that a school would greenlight such a trip.

[Expletive Deleted]

The Senior trip had a long tradition in my high school until insurance issues closed it down.They still do a Senior Trip at my old high school, too, but it's always been more about sightseeing (Washington DC, Boston, and New York, usually) than about partying. From what I hear, it's pretty tightly controlled these days, too.

[macul]

Was this trip a school sanctioned event?

[StoneGold]

It's all the liberal media's fault.

[macul]

It's all the liberal media's fault.

I thought it was Bush's fault?

[Royal]

I thought it was Bush's fault?

Nah man. The liberal media are working with Aruba to start up the white slaver trade.

[K'Nort]

I was surprised to find out when I moved to Portland that a lot of the high schools have traditional senior trips to various resort towns in Mexico. And they might have no supervision at all. There was a scandal with one trip in the news some time ago. A couple bored rich kids turned out to be burglaring houses. They skipped to Mexico when discovered (I believe their parents didn't shut off the credit cards). The senior trip was a few weeks later and they joined their classmates at the beach house and everyone had a good time.

[Dreadstar]

The Senior Class Trip was a traditional afair. It was a tad unfair to the have-nots of the school district though. See, what we did was *partially* subsidize the trip with whatever our final class treasury was, and then figure out what each student that wanted to go would owe for going. We flat-out paid the traveling and hotel expenses for the chaperones.

The reason it was unfair is that if you couldn't afford to come up with whatever the student's share was, then you didn't get the benefit of spending the last of the treasury.

As a senior, we got seriously screwed. The seniors before us went to Myrtle Beach. (that's just for perspective) As juniors, we were expected to foot the bill for the Sr.-Jr. prom. Well, we had a wad of cash, and we went all out. Booked the country club. Really laid out the spread, full sit-down and served. The after prom was all out, too. Great movies all night, indoor pool, more food, the works. Nearly broke us. So by the time we got to the Class trip, the best we could come up with was NYC. Not bad but not SC or Florida.

So wait you say, what about the prom when *you* were a senior? Surely you reaped a benefit from the Juniors?

Our prom? In the gym, with the rubber chicken and ham and slaw serve-yourself buffet. Afterprom at the local bowling alley (Hey! all you can bowl, man!) pay for your own crap. We thought for sure the Juniors must have been broke or something. But:

The Junior's class trip when they got to Seniors? Disneyworld, where else?

[Shellhead]

I went to a decent public school on the north side of Indianapolis, in a school district that included a wide range of economic levels, including poor kids on welfare and rich kids like the Lieutenant Governor's son. Our high school didn't have an official class trip.

There was an unofficial skip day that was pretty fun, on the Friday just before finals in senior year. On skip day, many seniors show up in costumes, act wild, play pranks, get chased off by the campus security and the vice principals, and then head down to the Speedway to watch time trials for the rest of the day. All of this was optional, so some seniors actually went to class, some slept in with hangovers, etc. My friends and I did the costume thing, skipped the track, and then went over to one guy's house to order pizza and play boardgames for the rest of the afternoon.

Unofficially, I think a bunch of seniors tended to go on an expedition to King's Island for skip day, but that's only a couple hours drive away. Great amusement park near Cincinatti.

[DonC]

Or am I just cynical?


Well, yes, technically you are cynical bitch; it says so right in your signature. But you're also right on this. Apparently she left the party she was at with two hotel workers, the guys in jail right now.

Now my question is this: What the hell kind of dim-bulb bitch actually leaves a party with two complete strangers she just met? In a foreign country, no less.

[MacQuarrie]

It's entirely possible that my high school did a senior trip and they kept it a secret from me. But I kinda doubt it. We did a "ditch day." Each of the cliques went to a different destination; beach, desert, mountains, whatever. I think I stayed home that day.

High school was stupid.

Anyway, I do think it was stupid of the school to sanction and arrange this trip. This is supposed to be the kind of thing that the kids set up on their own and lie to their parents about.

Or it could have been a fundraiser for the school. Maybe the producers of Girls Gone Wild paid the school $100 a head for the students...

[macul]

Nah man. The liberal media are working with Aruba to start up the white slaver trade.

Bastards. I knew it!

[monkeysweat]

Now my question is this: What the hell kind of dim-bulb bitch actually leaves a party with two complete strangers she just met? In a foreign country, no less.
I grew up in the Caribbean. Some tourists make me shake my head. They think they're spending time in some utopic fantasy land where they can drop their guards and shed their inhibitions. They don't recognize that they're in a real place with real people where real rules apply. Including rules of self-preservation. They associate with shady neer-do-wells thinking they're having some kind of authentic island experience. Dudes I wouldn't give the time of day to are associating with giddy white folk with accents. Most foreigners have their heads together, but some of them.... wow.

[west3man]

Nah man. The liberal media are working with Aruba to start up the white slaver trade.
I knew it.

Quick, somebody get me a dictionary and a copy of "The OTHER 'p.c.' for Dummies" so I can prove my point!

[Alex]

I figure it this way.
"Kids" (and shes what, 18 or 17?) can think for themselves.
If she is just missing, and she walked off, her fault, if she was kidnapped, the fault of the kidnappers.

[Scottsdale_Saint]

Doesn't anyone think that maybe it was a really dumb idea to take kids, no matter how smart/reliable/perfect they are (those kids were the biggest partiers at my HS), to a place that exists for the purpose of partying dangerously? And isn't there a possibility that we have an international uproar created by a high school girl who partied herself right into a bad tourist situation?

Or am I just cynical?if you really want to take it one step farther, and i have nothing but sympathy for the parents, but...they ok'd this trip and i anytime you OK a trip like this a parent is taking a chance that someone that has a very difficult situation to deal with-taking care of 20 or more kids-is going to look after the welfare of your kids the same way you would.

i've also heard no one mention that stuff like this happens to kids every day unfortuantely. you don't have to go to aruba to have misfortune come your way.
:(

[phoenixrising]

Man...our senior class trip (actually, it was just a ditch day) was to Cedar Point amusement park. Best rollercoasters in the world...but it was just Northern Ohio. Damn we suced..

[macul]

We did the Grad Night thing at Disney World.

[dougputhoff]

I thought it was Bush's fault?

I thought it was Clinton myself.

Either him of them fillerbustering Congressmen.

Or Newsweek's.

Or Jayson Blair's.

Or Deep Throat's.

Or PBS's.

Am I missing anybody?

[Dennis K]

I wonder how much press this story would have gotten if the girl involved had been one of color instead of being white. Reminds me of the Australian woman who was recently convicted of drug smuggling. Would there be a "story" if she wasn't white?

[dougputhoff]

I thought it was Clinton myself.

Either him of them fillerbustering Congressmen.

Or Newsweek's.

Or Jayson Blair's.

Or Deep Throat's.

Or PBS's.

Am I missing anybody?

Oh yeah, I forgot the ACLU.

[Phrozen]

Out high school didn't have senior trips. We had Beach week the week after graduation where most of the senior class went down to the Outer Banks, Kill Devil Hills, or Nags head for a week.

[Fabian]

Add this one to your bad location ideas for a school trip.

In my first year of college, I joined an engineering club and their national conference where all the members in the country (and some out of the US) met with companies and corporations and held seminars to improve themselves and thus get hired. It was held in New Orleans, days away from Fat Tuesday

And I was in college, I have no idea what the hell the people who organized some sort of high school cheerleading competition were thinking because they shared the same hotels as us.

No one got injured from what I know but it did give me memories that would last a lifetime

[Guts/Batman]

I figure it this way.
"Kids" (and shes what, 18 or 17?) can think for themselves.
If she is just missing, and she walked off, her fault, if she was kidnapped, the fault of the kidnappers.


I agree totally.

[Scottsdale_Saint]

I figure it this way.
"Kids" (and shes what, 18 or 17?) can think for themselves.
If she is just missing, and she walked off, her fault, if she was kidnapped, the fault of the kidnappers.i understand your point but sometimes i think parents do a poor job in evaluating risk vs. reward. no need to send your kid out of the country to a remote location where the likelihood of things like this increase a thousandfold.

i think it's horrible what happened to that family, i just think the parents could have scotched this trip easily by nixing permission forms. i am all for trips to other countries, as i participated i a exchange program to france after my senior year, but the environment definitely had a much more structured environment.

my heart goes out to this girl's family and friends...

[Johnny Morningstar]

The "chaperones" didn't help matters much.

They either (roughly) knew what she was doing beforehand or they were clueless and found out where the girl went after the other students informed them.

[K'Nort]

I wonder how much press this story would have gotten if the girl involved had been one of color instead of being white. Reminds me of the Australian woman who was recently convicted of drug smuggling. Would there be a "story" if she wasn't white?

Part of how much something is a story depends on how aggressively the family is publicizing the situation. Which in missing persons situation is a very good thing to do. Yes, it would still be a story.

[Anthony]

I grew up in the Caribbean. Some tourists make me shake my head. They think they're spending time in some utopic fantasy land where they can drop their guards and shed their inhibitions. They don't recognize that they're in a real place with real people where real rules apply. Including rules of self-preservation. They associate with shady neer-do-wells thinking they're having some kind of authentic island experience. Dudes I wouldn't give the time of day to are associating with giddy white folk with accents. Most foreigners have their heads together, but some of them.... wow.

I didn't grow up in the Caribbean, but most of my family is from there. I would have to completely agree with you, Tourists, sometimes, lose any semblance of common sense when in an "exotic" locale. This is especially true at the nightclubs.

[Dennis K]

Part of how much something is a story depends on how aggressively the family is publicizing the situation. Which in missing persons situation is a very good thing to do. Yes, it would still be a story.


While it may still be a story, I just don't see the media being all over it like they are now. Call me a cynic.

[Evil Sneak]

Pho & Shellhead:

King's Island & CedarPoint rule!!! (oh and Shelly, it's Cincinnati)

We didn't have a senior trip per se. But for all the seniors who were smart enough to take an art class (any class would do) or be apart of the Orchestra, Choir or Band, got to go on a trip.

I joined choir my junior year, and we spent a week in Anchorage, Alaska for our trip. There were 110 students (10 boys / 100 girls) and 8 chaperones (including 2 teachers). Nice time, it wasn't too cold and we got to do some skiing & snow buggying on the serious cheap.

Cost: $275 (For airfare & hotel)

My senior year we spent 6 days in Caracas, Venezuela. Again we had 110 students (10 boys / 100 girls) and 6 chaperones (including 3 teachers). Of the total 144 hours of the trip, we only had to be accountable for the (2) hour long practices, and the 1 hour performance. The rest of the time was free time.

Good lord, the things we drank and the people we drank with....

Cost: $325 (All inclusive)

[TitoJones]

Sneak:
Did you ever to Grad Night at Kings Island? And do they still have that.

Our senior trip consisted of us going Cedar Point for a weekend, which is a 3 hour drive from Dayton. Since it wasn't offical, we pretty much did whatever we wanted. Suffice to say it was a crazy weekend.

[Evil Sneak]

Sneak:
Did you ever to Grad Night at Kings Island? And do they still have that.

Our senior trip consisted of us going Cedar Point for a weekend, which is a 3 hour drive from Dayton. Since it wasn't offical, we pretty much did whatever we wanted. Suffice to say it was a crazy weekend.

Yeah, we did Grad night at King's Island, which sucked for me, cuz it was on a Saturday night and I was working as one of the Hanna-Barbera characters (JabberJaws) during the first couple of hours of the night. I avoided my classmates like the plague.

I don't know if they're still doing it there, but I don't see why not. I would've much rather gone to Cedar Point, the do have the best coasters, and more importantly no one to heckle me for spending the summer dressed as a 8 foot shark in a non ventilated felt costume

[Typo Lad]

Wow, talk about bad timing.

A new billboard was just added in Times Square.

A blond woman in the surf and the text says "COME TO ARUBA!"

I'll have to take a pic.

[sixstringguild]

Gotta feeling that in a couple of weeks we're going to see a 20/20 expose on the truths behind the hard partying high school kids are doing these days, especially on Sr. trips.

I think the parents of this girl are going to face some hard truths about what their girl was doing when they weren't around.

[phoenixrising]

Sadly, it looks like the girl and the parents are still not the issue. The young men arrested in Aruba, I think, are taking the fall. The US is putting a lot of pressure on Aruba and they just want to lock someone up without a shed of evidence so "we" get off their backs.

The man haven't even been charged and the girl's parents and our media are baying for blood. It makes me sick to see it happen.

[Winslow]

Sadly, it looks like the girl and the parents are still not the issue. The young men arrested in Aruba, I think, are taking the fall. The US is putting a lot of pressure on Aruba and they just want to lock someone up without a shed of evidence so "we" get off their backs.

The man haven't even been charged and the girl's parents and our media are baying for blood. It makes me sick to see it happen.

It could be pressure from the States will force an unjust conviction . . .

It seems more likely to me that the government of Aruba wants to protect its only means of income (tourism) by demonstrating it's a safe place, and getting a conviction.

"We're safe now . . .the bad guys are in jail" sort of thing.

[Royal]

Dumb bitch could have drowned herself & Mr. Have a Smoke & Shoot The Shit's gonna get strung up for it. Why not string up Mr. Consierge or Mr. Hot Dog Boy too while were at it. They hung out with her too.

Stupid, fucking white men. :mad:

[phoenixrising]

It could be pressure from the States will force an unjust conviction . . .

It seems more likely to me that the government of Aruba wants to protect its only means of income (tourism) by demonstrating it's a safe place, and getting a conviction.

"We're safe now . . .the bad guys are in jail" sort of thing.

I think that's exactly what's happening. They are content to ruin the lives of as many of their citizens as necessary to insure there is justice for an American girl's as-yet-uncomfirmed death. They have no evidence, no body...but they continue to lock people up. And somehow, that's perectly OK with us.

[spoon_jenkins]

Sadly, it looks like the girl and the parents are still not the issue. The young men arrested in Aruba, I think, are taking the fall. The US is putting a lot of pressure on Aruba and they just want to lock someone up without a shed of evidence so "we" get off their backs.

The man haven't even been charged and the girl's parents and our media are baying for blood. It makes me sick to see it happen.
I don't think this is the case at all. I think this is a just an unfounded "blame America" thing.

First of all, the American media may have played a part in freeing innocent men. Aruba had arrested two black working class men based on a fabricated story from the last people known to have seen her (upper-class youngsters of European and Asian ancestry). You were among the people that rushed to judgment in accepting this story, so I'm not sure you're in position to cast aspersions about the media running wild.

Some Americans reporters pointed out the flaws in the investigations and Aruban authorities have basically admitted their error in holding two men on flimsy accusations while releasing three who had actually been with her.

Now, the two mothers of the three young suspects (including Mrs. van der Sloot on camera) have admitted that the suspects changed their story. So we know that these guys fabricated a story about where they dropped off a missing woman. How are these guys being persecuted?

And it's not our legal system that allows the suspects to be held without charges, so it's ironic that you're casting your ire toward the U.S. instead of the Netherlands.

Furthermore, I don't see the media "baying for blood." Their references to the subjects have been surprisingly restrained. We don't have the references to beasts, savages, scum, etc. that frequently accompany crime coverage in the media.

And it makes sense that this would be a big case in Aruba since they only have 1 or 2 murders a year and tourism is their biggest industry.

[Dennis K]

Whose fault? However politically incorrect it may be to say, most likely her own. She probably used very poor judgment and ended up losing her life because of it. I wouldn't be at all suprised if she wasn't drunk, went off with the Dutch kid and his buddies, he tried to force himself on her, he raped and then killed her and when he realized what he had done, went running to his father who helped turn the body into chum and dispose of it in the ocean. Such a sad story, but I still say if she wasn't a young blonde American the press wouldn't be all over it like they are. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

[Davideaux]

Such a sad story, but I still say if she wasn't a young blonde American the press wouldn't be all over it like they are. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

I don't think you are either.

[phoenixrising]

I don't think this is the case at all. I think this is a just an unfounded "blame America" thing.

First of all, the American media may have played a part in freeing innocent men. Aruba had arrested two black working class men based on a fabricated story from the last people known to have seen her (upper-class youngsters of European and Asian ancestry). You were among the people that rushed to judgment in accepting this story, so I'm not sure you're in position to cast aspersions about the media running wild.

Some Americans reporters pointed out the flaws in the investigations and Aruban authorities have basically admitted their error in holding two men on flimsy accusations while releasing three who had actually been with her.

Now, the two mothers of the three young suspects (including Mrs. van der Sloot on camera) have admitted that the suspects changed their story. So we know that these guys fabricated a story about where they dropped off a missing woman. How are these guys being persecuted?

And it's not our legal system that allows the suspects to be held without charges, so it's ironic that you're casting your ire toward the U.S. instead of the Netherlands.

Furthermore, I don't see the media "baying for blood." Their references to the subjects have been surprisingly restrained. We don't have the references to beasts, savages, scum, etc. that frequently accompany crime coverage in the media.


Wow, thats a lot of accusations being pointed my way. I don't blame America for any of it. I blame the girl and he rparents formost, then I blame Aruba for caving to what they see as pressure on their tourism industry. I don't really see this 'ire' of which you speak.

They don't have any evidence yet, but they are arresting people willy-nilly. Why? I'd presume it was for the exact reasont hey state: They ar eunder pressure. Why are they under pressure? Because the entire US is trated to annoying an dpointless 24-hour coverage of it.

And I am not among these people, so don't cast any asperions as to MY blame. Just because I'm a journalist doesn't mean I support this story at all. This is primarily a product of TV cable news and it is ridiculously overhyped. If it were up to me, we'd cover more of the young minority kids that go missing from city streets every day instead of just pretty white kids in Aruba.

[Winslow]

And I am not among these people, so don't cast any asperions as to MY blame. Just because I'm a journalist doesn't mean I support this story at all. This is primarily a product of TV cable news and it is ridiculously overhyped. If it were up to me, we'd cover more of the young minority kids that go missing from city streets every day instead of just pretty white kids in Aruba.

Yeah.

3 poor kids, one with mental disabilities, were missing and found dead in Camden, NJ. :( That didn't make the national news.

Yet the pretty middle class white girl that lacks judgment (with parent's that lack judgment) makes headlines.

Messed up

[Shellhead]

Man...our senior class trip (actually, it was just a ditch day) was to Cedar Point amusement park. Best rollercoasters in the world...but it was just Northern Ohio. Damn we suced..

Why not King's Island?

[mgs]

it's everyone's fault.

I never went anywhere in high school. i was there for an education dammit. furthest I went was like, Connecticut to play like a football or lacrosse game.

btw, they will not find her body. it's easy to get rid of there. one girl told me that on a part of the island, there is an area where they locally feed all the sharks to keep them away from prime beach areas. if you want to dispose of a body, it can't get any easier.

[Corrina]

I blame the people who killed her.

She might have showed poor judgment. Or she might not. The judge currently under suspicion probably wouldn't set off alarm bells in a grown woman, never mind a girl.

The bottom line is: I don't blame the victim. I blame the people who killed her and disposed of her body.

[MacQuarrie]

I blame the people who killed her.

She might have showed poor judgment. Or she might not. The judge currently under suspicion probably wouldn't set off alarm bells in a grown woman, never mind a girl.

The bottom line is: I don't blame the victim. I blame the people who killed her and disposed of her body.
There is a huge difference between blaming the victim and recognizing that the victim made a lot of foolish choices that put her in a position to be victimized. IF she was killed, that doesn't excuse the killers, but if she, her parents, the school officials and maybe a few of her friends hadn't acted like idiots, the killers may have been denied the opportunity to kill her.

[phoenixrising]

Why not King's Island?

I personally like King's Island better....but Cedar Point has all the good coasters. You gotta admit...

[K'Nort]

Yeah.

3 poor kids, one with mental disabilities, were missing and found dead in Camden, NJ. :( That didn't make the national news.

Yet the pretty middle class white girl that lacks judgment (with parent's that lack judgment) makes headlines.

Messed up

Those three kids in NJ have received much more coverage here lately (very far from NJ) than the Aruba case.

And since I don't get much coverage of the Aruba case, do they know for sure she is dead? The last time a teenage girl went missing here after a party, they assumed similar things, and arrested a few suspects, and it turned out she'd wandered over the edge of a cliff in the dark. Another situation turned out to be suicide, which the family was completely not expecting and thus no one was looking into it as a possibility.

[Royal]

And since I don't get much coverage of the Aruba case, do they know for sure she is dead? The last time a teenage girl went missing here after a party, they assumed similar things, and arrested a few suspects, and it turned out she'd wandered over the edge of a cliff in the dark. Another situation turned out to be suicide, which the family was completely not expecting and thus no one was looking into it as a possibility.

Hell nah! She could be abducted by martians or stuck in a fissure & we'll STILL hang these three guys out to dry.

I'm one to believe that she planned to run & as soon as she found he chance, she bugged out to the closest island. She could be island hopping right now & we'll still string up the rich boy.

[Dennis K]

Hell nah! She could be abducted by martians or stuck in a fissure & we'll STILL hang these three guys out to dry.

I'm one to believe that she planned to run & as soon as she found he chance, she bugged out to the closest island. She could be island hopping right now & we'll still string up the rich boy.


Or maybe it was Santa Claus. Anything is possible.

[Typo Lad]

Or maybe it was Santa Claus. Anything is possible.

Nah. Santa's into red-heads.

[Dennis K]

Nah. Santa's into red-heads.

I assume only the shades that match his suit.

[Typo Lad]

I assume only the shades that match his suit.

Nah, he's more open than that.

Let's jsut say naughty redheads get a lot more than a lump of coal...

[Dennis K]

Nah, he's more open than that.

Let's jsut say naughty redheads get a lot more than a lump of coal...

I'd like to say something about getting more than their stockings stuffed but I'm afraid I'd get banned.

[Typo Lad]

I'd like to say something about getting more than their stockings stuffed but I'm afraid I'd get banned.

So one would imagine comments about him "coming down their chimney" would result in the same..

[Dennis K]

So one would imagine comments about him "coming down their chimney" would result in the same..


LOLOL... You win. :D

[Royal]

Oh for the gods Sake!!! (http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ats-ap_us13jul03,0,1005253.story?coll=ny-leadnationalnews-headlines)

[The Dosadi Experiment]

I wouldn't be at all suprised if she wasn't drunk, went off with the Dutch kid and his buddies, he tried to force himself on her, he raped and then killed her and when he realized what he had done, went running to his father who helped turn the body into chum and dispose of it in the ocean. Such a sad story, but I still say if she wasn't a young blonde American the press wouldn't be all over it like they are. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

Stop throwing slanderous filth around.

If the boy is guilty, so be it, but the father isn't guilty. Know your facts on that issue before you make outrageous claims you can't back up with facts.

Joran's father was arrested but not because he was involved in the whole ordeal.

The police knocked on his door, they went in together with the parents of the girl and some others, the man is a judge, he knows who he should tell his story to, so he directed himself to the officers in charge when telling his story, now the only reason he was arrested is because the bystanders, the ones he DIDN'T direct his attention to, to whom he did not speak on that particular night, told the media what they heard him say on that night.

Because the bystanders told a different story he was arrested, and because the bystanders are full of sh*t he was released.

Aruba is part of the Netherlands, their judical system is identical to ours.

Unlike in the USA you can't convict someone on what somebody claims to have seen or heard. Random witnesses are a horrible way to verify anything, this has been proven time and time again, how people remember an event can be skewered and distorted by time and bias, and by a personal interpretation of an event that transpired. They're not reliable in most cases.

Let's find the girl first and then see who's to blame for it.

but I repeat Joran's father did not help his son commit murder.

[howyadoin]

Oh for the gods Sake!!! (http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ats-ap_us13jul03,0,1005253.story?coll=ny-leadnationalnews-headlines)Huh?

.

[Dennis K]

Stop throwing slanderous filth around.

If the boy is guilty, so be it, but the father isn't guilty. Know your facts on that issue before you make outrageous claims you can't back up with facts.

Joran's father was arrested but not because he was involved in the whole ordeal.

The police knocked on his door, they went in together with the parents of the girl and some others, the man is a judge, he knows who he should tell his story to, so he directed himself to the officers in charge when telling his story, now the only reason he was arrested is because the bystanders, the ones he DIDN'T direct his attention to, to whom he did not speak on that particular night, told the media what they heard him say on that night.

Because the bystanders told a different story he was arrested, and because the bystanders are full of sh*t he was released.

Aruba is part of the Netherlands, their judical system is identical to ours.

Unlike in the USA you can't convict someone on what somebody claims to have seen or heard. Random witnesses are a horrible way to verify anything, this has been proven time and time again, how people remember an event can be skewered and distorted by time and bias, and by a personal interpretation of an event that transpired. They're not reliable in most cases.

Let's find the girl first and then see who's to blame for it.

but I repeat Joran's father did not help his son commit murder.


Oh grow up already.

[phoenixrising]

Oh grow up already.

Wow, how manly of you, fighting off an actual argument with a childish taunt. Touche!

[Dennis K]

Wow, how manly of you, fighting off an actual argument with a childish taunt. Touche!


After reading his post, I found it not worthy of anything but the response I gave it. Just like I'm doing here.

[phoenixrising]

Despite American Brutus' allegedly infalliabile argument, I agree with Dosadi.

Officials have no evidence against anyone but the three boys she was with...and even that is circumstantial hearsay. They've arrested just about everyone Holloway was in contact with that night (including the DJ, for god's sake) just to keep her family from continually whining to the press about the case. They even managed to drag a Dutch judge into jail just to prove "how serious they are".

They've had the entire island search, they've brought in Dutch aircraft to search...all for one missing American teen. And allegedly, it still isn't enough according to American media. As heartless as it sounds, Nataleee Holloway is just another casualty of bad decisions and her case has already gotten far more international attention than it ever should have.

For all we know, she went swimming late at night and never came back. But apparently, that lack of evidence is enough to make a guilty judgement for some people.

[Corey Dreher]

I think it's the girls fault. First why was she in a club, allegedly drinking and getting all close to one of the guys? Second I hate how the played the race card. As sppn as they said these black guys did it they forget about the first three guys! I hate how they do black people. But anyways I think this case is stupid. Bottom line is, they said the girl was so smart and everything yet she drinks and she leaves with these unknown three guys. What about her friends? They just let her go? Something in that scene doesn't seem right.

[howyadoin]

I think it's the girls fault. First why was she in a club, allegedly drinking and getting all close to one of the guys?Because she wanted to have some fun?

I don't think she deserved to die for that.

[Corey Dreher]

Because she wanted to have some fun?

I don't think she deserved to die for that.



Well, true. But I think she should've been more aware. No one deserves to die. But she should learn a lesson (Not a painful one) but I mean she is leaving with people she doesn't know. For a smart girl that wasn't too bright...

[howyadoin]

Well, true. But I think she should've been more aware. No one deserves to die. But she should learn a lesson (Not a painful one) but I mean she is leaving with people she doesn't know. For a smart girl that wasn't too bright...No, but an awful lot of people at that age are convinced they'll live for ever, and I doubt she was very streetsmart.

[Corey Dreher]

No, but an awful lot of people at that age are convinced they'll live for ever, and I doubt she was very streetsmart.


True true true. My friend thinks she was sold, but I don't think so...

[Nitmo]

I blame the Dosadi Experiment for sipping wine on the french riviera when he could have been out investigating the girls disappearance.

[Ronald Bryan]

I blame the Dosadi Experiment for sipping wine on the french riviera when he could have been out investigating the girls disappearance.
Actually, he was too busy looking at porn on the Internet. YOU SEE WHAT PORN DOES?!?

[Karl J. Barnes]

Actually, he was too busy looking at porn on the Internet. YOU SEE WHAT PORN DOES?!?

Ron should know...he was pointing out the best sites..

[Royal]

Huh?

.

Damn link misdirection spell.

They sent the Dutch Air Force after her.