"What do Eastern martial arts have to do with Batman? Don’t ask."

[PatrickG]

"What do Eastern martial arts have to do with Batman? Don’t ask."

This is what the New Yorker said in their review of Batman Begins.

I'd always complained that Batman's physicality was underplayed in previous flicks...

... But the general public doesn't think of him as a martial artist and master strategist, do they?

They think of him as a rich boy with gadgets in a self-ironic world.

How sad.

The reviewer went on to say, "Where have all the jokes gone?"

I've noticed a few reviwers are complaining abouth the realism, how they want Batman to be a satirical gothic fantasy...

... And I don't think that they realize that the core of Batman is that his audience takes him seriously. Whether as a six year-old watching Adam West escape death traps with baited breath or an angry youth reading DKR, I think anybody who manages to get too much emotional distance from Batman and his perils (both physical and psychological) really never experiences what super-heroes are all about.

[muimi]

I've noticed a few reviwers are complaining abouth the realism, how they want Batman to be a satirical gothic fantasy...

... And I don't think that they realize that the core of Batman is that his audience takes him seriously. Whether as a six year-old watching Adam West escape death traps with baited breath or an angry youth reading DKR, I think anybody who manages to get too much emotional distance from Batman and his perils (both physical and psychological) really never experiences what super-heroes are all about.

*sigh*

That's such a shame that people can't just view it as a movie, that they hear "Batman" and automatically look for the bad puns, cheesy costumes. But that's the reality of it: most people don't know the Batman mythos like comic book fans do and sadly some aren't willing to open their mind to accept a different interpretation of it.

Let's face it: what most people know about Batman is that he's a guy that dresses up as a big, bad bat. As Bruce Wayne says in the trailer: "C' guy that dresses up like a bat clearly has issues." That's what most people see: a guy in a batsuit. And yes, it's going to look really dumb off the bat. (Uh... no pun intended, I swear.) The problem with Batman is that you have to be willing to have an open mind about the mythos, look past the rich guy with gadgets and understand and have empathy for the lost boy inside who is simply looking for a way to ease his grief and anger over his parents' senseless murder. Let's hope more non-comic book fans are willing to be open minded enough to accept the movie and mythos without the KAPOWs.

[Noah Johnson]

Let me guess... it was Anthony Lane, right? Trust me, his reviews of movies, comic-book adaptations especially, are basically about watching him deal with his neuroses and his undying desire to one day sit at the cool kids' table in the cafeteria. The movies are all but incidental.

[PatrickG]

David Denby, actually.

The review's online at:

http://www.newyorker.com/critics/cinema/articles/050613crci_cinema

[Smokeyjay]

If you read the negative reviews for Batman...

Most of them critique Batman because its too "serious" for a comic book. They complain that its too dark and not enough action. They also complain that theres too much dialogue. If you go to superherohype and to the Batman begins spoilers forum, they have plenty of reviews like these. It seems like a lot of these reviewers come in highly biased with their own perceived notions of what a Batman movie should be based on Tim Burton's films.

[TCJohnson]

Most reviews I am finding are highly positive, so who cares about people who don't understand the media?

[TCJohnson]

Most reviews I am finding are highly positive, so who cares about people who don't understand the medium?

[Dennis]

i agree that batman is way too serious. i saw a table at barnes & noble with a bunch of batman tpbs, and the only one that is still worth a read is dk2. the drawings in dk2 are just silly. that's what batman should be. it's dumb to make a humourless story about preposterous freaks. it's a shame nobody has tried to copy dk2, not one person! what's wrong with people?

[Cam63]

David Denby, actually.

The review's online at:

http://www.newyorker.com/critics/cinema/articles/050613crci_cinema

Another review from an elitist critic who doesn't understand the genre.

Chances are if it did contain the Schumacher or Adam West cheesiness, he'd be bitching about that.

[PatrickG]

Well, to be fair, he didn't like Schumacher's films.

But he seems to consider Burton's films as being akin to Mel Gibson's payback where the audience relishes the subtle humor of an over-the-top anti-hero protecting a a dark city.

Me? I'd rather sympathize with Batman and root him on.

[anthony!]

Actually I do have to say that the whole Eastern Asia training of Batman thing really doesn't interest me. And I've yet to see a single preview that got me excited about this movie aside from the pleasantry of seeing Batman back on film. Oh, and Katie Holmes as some made up new character whose a childhood friend of Bruce Wayne who happens to also be a DA? WTF?

Would it kill filmakers to just make Batman a detective that solves crimes? Yeesh...

[TCJohnson]

Why, when he isn't in the comics? I mean, in the comic books he is a martial artist who travelled all over the world gaining skills.

[PatrickG]

Maybe it's an age difference?

I grew up on Jim Aparo Batman (and reprints of older stuff).

I think of Batman, the first version that pops into my head is a humanist, philanthropist ninja, deputized by the government and feared by criminals. The mysterious benefactor of Gotham City. Investigator of haunted houses and scourge of the mob. James Bond with a Deus ex belt to escape from any deathtrap.

[anthony!]

Why, when he isn't in the comics? I mean, in the comic books he is a martial artist who travelled all over the world gaining skills.

If you joking, than I honestly believe you and I have finally found something we can agree on.

[TCJohnson]

No I am not. In the comics Batman is a martial artist who spent time in the east (as well as other countries) studying under many different masters. I mean, check out Batman: Year One.

I, for one, am excited about this movie. Looks like the Batman movie I have always hoped for.

[Adam Crocker]

If you joking, than I honestly believe you and I have finally found something we can agree on.

Well he isn't as far as I know, mostly because Batman in the comics, did go out and learn so martial arts for his training. (I don't see why that's such a big leap though. He's going hand-to-hand with thugs with guns and sometimes even worst and often relies on stealth. He's going to need it.)

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

David Denby, actually.

The review's online at:

http://www.newyorker.com/critics/cinema/articles/050613crci_cinema

Ever thought of writing for The Comics Journal, Dave? It's a very lucrative position. [rolls eyes]

[anthony!]

No I am not. In the comics Batman is a martial artist who spent time in the east (as well as other countries) studying under many different masters. I mean, check out Batman: Year One.

I, for one, am excited about this movie. Looks like the Batman movie I have always hoped for.

Darn.

Sorry I disagree. Year One doesn't spend extensive time in the Far East. Saying he learned self defense in the far east is one thing, but to have Batman born there is another.

My Batman has always been self taught in nearly everything. He learned it all the hard way.

[Spackling Compound]

If then, he's more martial artist than detective, then should we not call it..

FAR EAST MARTIAL ARTS COMICS featuring Batman and then develop a new, hip logo with the letters FEMAC!

[PatrickG]

If the rumored page rates for the New Yorker are true, he might have just netted $30k for this review. (I doubt he did; what I always heard was $10k for three paragraphs -- which might be an overblown figure -- and that's not the review section.)

I don't think the Comics Journal could compete with that.

Heck, I'm skeptical as to whether DC would pay that for AN ISSUE unless it was Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman and Frank Miller with Jim Lee, Alex Ross and Michael Turner on art. (In which case, to be fair, I think they'd be willing to fork over more than $30k an issue for a team like this; heck, any one of the artists named has probably averaged $30k an issue on at least one run in their career and the writers have too if you count subsequent royalties from TPBs and films.)

[Onimaru]

I think what a lot of people don't understand about Batman (a lot of them being of the "WHY IS HE A THUG WHO PUNCHES PEOPLE ALL THE TIME? PICK UP A FREAKIN MAGNIFYING GLASS" persuation) is that, even if Batman solves the crime...he's still going to have to defend himself from dozens upon dozens of armed thugs, mutants, and other martial artists. Gadgets can only take you so far--even James Bond has to get into a fight sometimes. Hell, the Question is straight up Mr. Detective and even he's ranked fairly highly as far as the DCU's martial artists go (as far as I know)

This was actually one of the primary reasons I didnt like the first four Batman movies. Batman needs to be equal parts punching, thinking, and cool Batman-unique stuff (like zipping around on grappling lines and driving implausible cars)

[anthony!]

I think what a lot of people don't understand about Batman (a lot of them being of the "WHY IS HE A THUG WHO PUNCHES PEOPLE ALL THE TIME? PICK UP A FREAKIN MAGNIFYING GLASS" persuation) is that, even if Batman solves the crime...he's still going to have to defend himself from dozens upon dozens of armed thugs, mutants, and other martial artists. Gadgets can only take you so far--even James Bond has to get into a fight sometimes. Hell, the Question is straight up Mr. Detective and even he's ranked fairly highly as far as the DCU's martial artists go (as far as I know)

This was actually one of the primary reasons I didnt like the first four Batman movies. Batman needs to be equal parts punching, thinking, and cool Batman-unique stuff (like zipping around on grappling lines and driving implausible cars)

Still doesn't change the fact that the films barely ever give Batman a mystery to solve. And none of the Batman films have ever been short on punching.

[TCJohnson]

Sorry I disagree. Year One doesn't spend extensive time in the Far East. Saying he learned self defense in the far east is one thing, but to have Batman born there is another.


What do you mean Batman being born there?

[Charles RB]

FAR EAST MARTIAL ARTS COMICS featuring Batman and then develop a new, hip logo with the letters FEMAC!

Or Far East Combat Komics, featuring a new company-wide logo that gets all their companies barred from Ireland!

[anthony!]

What do you mean Batman being born there?

You know, his skills and stuff.

[Shiloh]

Darn.

Sorry I disagree. Year One doesn't spend extensive time in the Far East. Saying he learned self defense in the far east is one thing, but to have Batman born there is another.

My Batman has always been self taught in nearly everything. He learned it all the hard way.

If memory doesn't fail me (as it so often does), didn't it come up in the "Bruce Wayne: Fugitive" storyline that he had studied under Cain (the current Batgirl's father)?

[TCJohnson]

According to what I have heard, he learns his advanced martial arts skills in the far east. In the movie he has been travelling the entire world studying the criminal mind, and the movie starts with him in the far east.

I don't see how this is different than the comic book.