Huntress

[Boris]

Huntress really is a great character and I think that Gail has done the best job with her to date. I like the current storyline with Savant and his guy pal. Frankly I almost wish she becomes a female kingpin. This could be good.

Anyways, I am curious about the Checkmate issue with her that seems to have gone by the way side.

I also wonder, if there is a way to do a pre crisis Huntress story?
Maybe some sort of Pre Crisis Birds of Prey? Even as a stand alone out of continuity story?

[PatrickG]

I'd place two out of three members as Earth-2 natives. Maybe it'd have the Earth-2 Barbara Gordon?

[Gaz]

Huntress really is a great character and I think that Gail has done the best job with her to date. I like the current storyline with Savant and his guy pal. Frankly I almost wish she becomes a female kingpin. This could be good.

OK, you're new, so you won't know how vocal I have been about this.
But, while it is an interesting concept, the build-up makes no sense for such a huge change of character. What, she's gonna join the mob, the people she's hated all her life, just because she's mad at Barbera? Not to mention how bratty and immature her reaction to Oracle's attempts to "fix" her, especially given how she figured it out. And let's just forget her friendship with Dinah which has no reason to be written off at all.
But apart from that... :p
Gail has hinted that she's not going where it looks like she is. Which has sated me, for the moment.

[Joe no Sleep]

OK, you're new, so you won't know how vocal I have been about this.
But, while it is an interesting concept, the build-up makes no sense for such a huge change of character. What, she's gonna join the mob, the people she's hated all her life, just because she's mad at Barbera? Not to mention how bratty and immature her reaction to Oracle's attempts to "fix" her, especially given how she figured it out. And let's just forget her friendship with Dinah which has no reason to be written off at all.
But apart from that... :p
Gail has hinted that she's not going where it looks like she is. Which has sated me, for the moment.


Something tells me that this dircetion has something to do with a giant orbiting satellite watching and listening to just about everything.

[Helena]

Not to mention how bratty and immature her reaction to Oracle's attempts to "fix" her, especially given how she figured it out.

I’m curious, why would you describe her reaction as being bratty and immature?

[Gaz]

I’m curious, why would you describe her reaction as being bratty and immature?
First, she figured it out because it's a technique SHE uses as a teacher, for crimeny's sake. Secondly, Babs is trying to make her deal with issues she herself has been avoiding,and she knows that, hence why she used the term "fix". So,OK be mad at her for a little but, fair enough, but storming off and not coming back when the person was genuinely trying to help, no matter how ill-judged her approach was (and I doubt Helena would have been on board had she been upfront...) as well as writing off someone who was a friend and knew NOTHING about that doesn't strike me as an act by a very mature woman.

[Helena]

Perhaps you and I are reading the entire scenario differently. But given what Barbara did and her rocky past with Helena. I think that Helena was in every right to react the way that she did. She thought that Babs was her friend. Now she finds out that Babs was trying to manipulate her. Gaz I am not certain how well you are versed in the Batverse ,but Helena and Barbara have never, ever been friends at all. In fact until Gail Simone came on board they couldn’t stand each other. I can remember two instances where Barbara was prepared to let Helena hang out to dry when she was in trouble.
The ‘friendship’ between the two women was conjured up from nowhere. And I’ve complained to Gail about it. I am not adverse to them being friends. But their past should have been addressed before moving forwards in their relationship.


If there is one thing I’ve noticed about Huntress is that she’s very honest and frank. Meaning she does not like lies and liars. If Barbara really wanted to help her. She should have spoken to her. That’s what a true friend does. A true friend doesn’t manipulate and play games. I also think that given Barbara’s own psychological problems (sabotaging her relationship with Nightwing). She should attempt to fix herself before presuming to ‘help’ others.

Frankly, if Huntress hadn’t walked away she would have been immature.

[Gaz]

Perhaps you and I are reading the entire scenario differently. But given what Barbara did and her rocky past with Helena. I think that Helena was in every right to react the way that she did. She thought that Babs was her friend. Now she finds out that Babs was trying to manipulate her. Gaz I am not certain how well you are versed in the Batverse ,but Helena and Barbara have never, ever been friends at all. In fact until Gail Simone came on board they couldn’t stand each other. I can remember two instances where Barbara was prepared to let Helena hang out to dry when she was in trouble.
The ‘friendship’ between the two women was conjured up from nowhere. And I’ve complained to Gail about it. I am not adverse to them being friends. But their past should have been addressed before moving forwards in their relationship.


If there is one thing I’ve noticed about Huntress is that she’s very honest and frank. Meaning she does not like lies and liars. If Barbara really wanted to help her. She should have spoken to her. That’s what a true friend does. A true friend doesn’t manipulate and play games. I also think that given Barbara’s own psychological problems (sabotaging her relationship with Nightwing). She should attempt to fix herself before presuming to ‘help’ others.

Frankly, if Huntress hadn’t walked away she would have been immature.

True, I wasn't aware of any long lasting animosity, and that may justify, somewhat.
But is it really likely that if she'd gone to Helena and said "You know all that horrible stuff you've been avoiding dealing with for years, how about letting me take a crack at helping you work them out?" that Helena would turn round and say "Yes, would you?" given their apparant history?
And that's another point, Barbera is clearly doing what she's trying to help the others with, avoiding her problems, which makes Helena a pretty bad friend too,if she didn't notice her being unwilling to talk about anything to do with herself.
It also doesn't justify her writing off Dinah, who'd gone to bat for her, and, I don't accept that Barbera wasn't her friend btw, maybe she went about things the wrong way, but she had good intentions and helped Helena out (with the teaching job, and you can't deny that Huntress doesn't enjoy teaching), but Dinah was REALLY her friend and was in the dark about what was going on, even with the fact that Oracle did the same to her. Walk away from the person that did wrong, OK, even if I accept that interpretation, how mature is it to say "You like that bad person, so I don't like you no more", which is basically what she did to Dinah.
Oh, and Dinah managed to forgive Barbera.


EDIT: Besides, it's a bit hypocritical of a teacher, who wouldn't hesitate to use this technique on a problem pupil, to get upset when she's on the receiving end. It's fine if she's the manipulator?

[Helena]

True, I wasn't aware of any long lasting animosity, and that may justify, somewhat.
But is it really likely that if she'd gone to Helena and said "You know all that horrible stuff you've been avoiding dealing with for years, how about letting me take a crack at helping you work them out?" that Helena would turn round and say "Yes, would you?" given their apparant history??


You know maybe Helena wouldn't have been willing to listen. But it would have been more decent and more honest than lying and playing games. That's not what a true friend does. And has anyone helped Babara since she was shot by the Joker? From the way awful I've seen her treat Nightwing. I don't think she has. I really think that Barbara should get her own head on straight before she presumes to mess with the lives of others.
Speaking of immature. I find it a bit funny that you consider Huntress to be immature for running out of the plane. But don't ascribe the same word to Oracle for running away from Gotham City and Batman after what happened in War Games.





And that's another point, Barbera is clearly doing what she's trying to help the others with, avoiding her problems, which makes Helena a pretty bad friend too,if she didn't notice her being unwilling to talk about anything to do with herself.



I don't follow. What gives Barbara the right to manipulate and use others the way she has.




It also doesn't justify her writing off Dinah, who'd gone to bat for her, and, I don't accept that Barbera wasn't her friend btw, maybe she went about things the wrong way, but she had good intentions and helped Helena out (with the teaching job, and you can't deny that Huntress doesn't enjoy teaching), but Dinah was REALLY her friend and was in the dark about what was going on, even with the fact that Oracle did the same to her. Walk away from the person that did wrong, OK, even if I accept that interpretation, how mature is it to say "You like that bad person, so I don't like you no more", which is basically what she did to Dinah.
Oh, and Dinah managed to forgive Barbera.



What makes you think that Helena wrote Dinah off? In issue #80. The only person I saw Helena cussing out was Barbara. She said nothing to Dinah. And we've seen nothing since then. Dinah is on the other side of the world in Singapore and Helena is in Gotham City. Who knows, maybe Helena is still mad. And maybe she doesn't want to approach Dinah because, she doesn't want to place her in a difficult spot between her quarrel with Oracle.





EDIT: Besides, it's a bit hypocritical of a teacher, who wouldn't hesitate to use this technique on a problem pupil, to get upset when she's on the receiving end. It's fine if she's the manipulator?

Is Barbara, Helena's teacher now? I thought she was supposed to be her friend.

[Gaz]

You know maybe Helena wouldn't have been willing to listen. But it would have been more decent and more honest than lying and playing games. That's not what a true friend does. And has anyone helped Babara since she was shot by the Joker? From the way awful I've seen her treat Nightwing. I don't think she has. I really think that Barbara should get her own head on straight before she presumes to mess with the lives of others.
Speaking of immature. I find it a bit funny that you consider Huntress to be immature for running out of the plane. But don't ascribe the same word to Oracle for running away from Gotham City and Batman after what happened in War Games.

Actually,I don't read the core Bat-titles, and only jumped on BoP and Batgirl after War Games.






I don't follow. What gives Barbara the right to manipulate and use others the way she has.

Nothing. But Helena's not completely innocent on the "bad friend" front, either, 's all I'm saying.




What makes you think that Helena wrote Dinah off? In issue #80. The only person I saw Helena cussing out was Barbara. She said nothing to Dinah. And we've seen nothing since then. Dinah is on the other side of the world in Singapore and Helena is in Gotham City. Who knows, maybe Helena is still mad. And maybe she doesn't want to approach Dinah because, she doesn't want to place her in a difficult spot between her quarrel with Oracle.
Granted, I haven't reread #80 for a while, but I thought she quite deliberately brushed off Dinah when she tried to explain.





Is Barbara, Helena's teacher now? I thought she was supposed to be her friend.
Hey, are Bruce and Dick friends? Were Cass and Steph? But there was also a clear mentor/pupil thing going on, not saying that's what was the case here, but one does not exclude the other.
I actually have a problem with Helena's seeming running to the mob as a reaction more than her being mad. Mainly because I actually like her now, something I never thought I could given her Punisher-lite roots (I hate Punisher, btw) and don't want her to be a big villain now.
And Barbera is one of my favorite characters ever... so I find it hard to see her totally as the bad guy, but look at her background, her dad was absent a lot of the time, and she couldn't share everything with him anyway, and Bruce isn't the best role-model.

[Helena]

I actually have a problem with Helena's seeming running to the mob as a reaction more than her being mad. Mainly because I actually like her now, something I never thought I could given her Punisher-lite roots (I hate Punisher, btw) and don't want her to be a big villain now.

We don't know why Helena is running to the mob. It hasn't been addressed or explained.

[Static-Pulse]

But, while it is an interesting concept, the build-up makes no sense for such a huge change of character.I hope this is one of those times when I'm wrong and get told as much, but have you considered that Savant might be blackmailing her?

[Gaz]

We don't know why Helena is running to the mob. It hasn't been addressed or explained.
Yep, and Gail hinting that there's more to it than meets the eye is the only thing that's stopping me from going nuts. :p
I don't want to dislike her now. So when she starts acting in a dislikable way, as a result of what seemed to me to be a thin justification, it annoys me and either says "intriguing subplot" or "lazy writing" depending on how it pays off.

[Gaz]

I hope this is one of those times when I'm wrong and get told as much, but have you considered that Savant might be blackmailing her?
Actually, I get the feeling that she's playing the mob as a way of showing Oracle that she doesn't NEED her help.