IDENTITY CRISIS: Questions & Discussion *Spoilers*

[NickVinson]

Im doing this in the name of Science. Just simply click an answer. And lets keep the attacks to other threads. Im simply curious as too the public opinion without flame wars. Keep the disertations to the other thread. This isn't Crossfire.


Yes. Fantastic Series

No. Worst thing ever.

Dont Know. Didnt read it.

Thank you and have a nice day.

[stealthwise]

I thought it was all right. It certainly wasn't of poor quality overall.

[Sean Whitmore]

Can't there be a "loved most of it/hated some of it" vote?



SEAN

[Gurl Reader]

Loved it for the most part.

[pennywisdom]

Can't there be a "loved most of it/hated some of it" vote?
I agree. I'll click on the "positive" option, because there aren't any inbetween choices.

[Lurch]

I agree that you didn't give us enough in-between choices. It was a great whodunit story until the reveal. But I have to give it high marks overall for being ambitious. And even if you hated it, you have to admit it had a lot of us discussing it. I think maybe I enjoy that aspect of a comic almost as much as reading it.

[GoblinEcks]

I loved it. A very well writing story on all fronts. I loved how the writers made it clear that batman and superman do not really fit in with the rest of the league. That Batman and Superman are on a different level of hero than the rest. That Batman and Superman would not only put their lives on the line but also there families to protect their beliefs on how a hero should act.

[HumanTorch09]

It was great until the killer was revealed (I wanted it to be the person at the end of issue 6, but oh well).

[pennywisdom]

I loved most of it. It was ambitious, bold, a great mystery, it reminded the world that DC's rogues are genuinely badass, and showed us that heroes are flawed, too. The only thing I didn't like was that it might have been a bit too extreme in parts (although that's a small price to pay for a comic book story actually worth talking about) and although I like Rags Morales, I didn't think he was as well-suited to this particular story as some people thought he was. High points for having the balls to actually go through with a story like this. It didn't tear away at the characters, but it did make them question themselves. It was a challenging story on many levels.

[NickVinson]

Well... it says enjoyed it. Doesnt that count? No? I screw the pooch?

*cry* :(

[NickVinson]

I agree that you didn't give us enough in-between choices. It was a great whodunit story until the reveal. But I have to give it high marks overall for being ambitious. And even if you hated it, you have to admit it had a lot of us discussing it. I think maybe I enjoy that aspect of a comic almost as much as reading it.


Part of me is having a hard time believing the contrary. Id like to believe that it was just that effective as a story. But deep down... I think Meltzer and DC knew how to end each issue. Manipulation masters.

I havent anticipated a comic like this in YEARS. I mean, when was the last time you were on pins and needles in between issues and for months while trying to figure out the killer and the discussions... Wooo. Wore me out.

[ForEverAncien]

Part of me is having a hard time believing the contrary. Id like to believe that it was just that effective as a story. But deep down... I think Meltzer and DC knew how to end each issue. Manipulation masters.

I havent anticipated a comic like this in YEARS. I mean, when was the last time you were on pins and needles in between issues and for months while trying to figure out the killer and the discussions... Wooo. Wore me out.

On that I can agree...but mercy, what a way to go out...if they did this to ever other book, I think every collector will be up in arms, cause the stress will be too much to bare, like with these cliffhangers, done in IC.

Then again, it won't be a bad thing either... :rolleyes:

[NickVinson]

The last 7 months made me EXCITED ABOUT COMICS! I havent been Excited about comics since I was 12. Im 23 now. The last time I can even recall being in anticipation was during No Man's Land. Right around when Rucka was doing the middle bits. and even THAT pales in comparison to how much I want it to be Dec 15, 2004. Weeks ive waited.

And I kinda like that it ended on a whimper.

Now.. Onto the LOSH reboot. Is it December 29 yet?

[thetechnocrat]

It was a fun ride. Issues 1-6 kept me guessing all the way. The last issue was crap.

I thought Rags' pencils could've been better. They were awesome on Hawkman.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I haven't got Issue 7# yet...but I give the series an A+. It really showed how far some heroes will go to protect thier friends and family. Is It too much what they did? I can't answer that , but as Ollie said: "It was the only thing we could do."


You see 2 definitions of Hero In this. Those who will stand by what they believe and scarifice It all to keep that mantle of Hero. And those who don't want to sacrifice those dear to them. It was a good tale.

[EZMOHR]

Here is how I feel about it. Imagine you are watching the whole Lord of the Rings trilogy from start to finish. You watch the first 8 hours, and it is like....wow this is one of the coolest things I have ever seen (Issues 1-6 of Identity Crisis). Then, you get to that last hour and they introduce a new character named Gigli. And, basically, Gigli, Gollum, and Faramir run off into the sunset with the ring, and marry the product of Ishtar being crossed with Battlefield Earth (Issue #7 of Identity Crisis). I am usually not very critical of stuff I read, but, IC #7 maybe the worst ending to a great story that I have ever seen. It is the biggest let down since......Well EVER!!!!! Number Seven is the worst comic book I have ever read. PERIOD. Brad Metzler should be ashamed. Now, everybody can call me a bitter fan boy or whatever they like, but, I honestly feel cheated out of the 3 bucks I spent on this comic. And to defend myself, I don't usually trash people's writing, but this was the lamest of the lame. In my opinion, I have never felt cheated buying a comic until today. Sorry for the mean comments.

[MJC]

I liked it until the ending.

[DonC]

Yeah, you can count me among the people who felt a huge let-down with the ending. It was just stupid. There's no other word for it.

[yeoman]

I don't think I've ever even *thought* about quitting buying comics. If I have it was never seriously.

Until Identity Crisis.

[EZMOHR]

I don't think I've ever even *thought* about quitting buying comics. If I have it was never seriously.

Until Identity Crisis.

Well, I won't stop buying comics.....but if it has the name Brad Metzler on it....I won't buy it.

[Brian R]

I thought the last issue was the weakest, but the series is still very good overall. I dont have a problem with the choice, but it just didnt surprise me, especially after reading everything on these boards, it seemed like one of the obvious choices. Also, we get NOTHING about Dr. Light, which I have a hard time buying.

I still checked "Enjoyed it", because I did, but its not the best thing ever. Of course, with all the hype around this mini, and especially this last issue, what were the odds that it would actually live up to it?

Oh, and Im sorry for not being able to put this more diplomatically, but people who are contemplating quitting comics over this? Dumb. Im sorry, but there have been much worse comics published THIS YEAR, let alone ever. Sure, everyone is entitled to overreact, but thats just the most overboard I have ever seen. Thats like me saying I would never buy another Marvel comic because of Avengers Disassembled(which was the worst story of the year by a rather large margin), just crazy.

[EZMOHR]

The reason why this was worse than Avengers: Dissassembeld.....That one according to most people, started off like crap. Me personally, I had no stake in the characters, so I enjoyed the story. In IC, the story was so good up until #7, that this sham that came out today seems like a totally different book. It does not even seem like IC. It is almost like somebody splicing the first two hours of The Empire Strikes Back, with the ending of The Godfather. It does not even seem like the same story. Just bad storytelling by Metzler and DC.

[muimi]

Liked it; kind of disappointed in the ending but a lot of the happenings will make for interesting fall out later on.

[yeoman]

Oh, and Im sorry for not being able to put this more diplomatically, but people who are contemplating quitting comics over this? Dumb. Im sorry, but there have been much worse comics published THIS YEAR, let alone ever. Sure, everyone is entitled to overreact, but thats just the most overboard I have ever seen. Thats like me saying I would never buy another Marvel comic because of Avengers Disassembled(which was the worst story of the year by a rather large margin), just crazy.

As the only person who made such a statement you could at least try to aim your insulting statement at me rather than try to cover it up with a blanket statement.

I have *never* NEVER seen *anything* in *any* medium that made me shake with rage.

Identity Crisis did. And this was meant to be Meltzer's love letter to the DCU. It was meant to be DC's Showcase it will effect the DCU for years to come. And it will, because the people writing half the freaking DCU are Meltzers friends.

This book insulted me on an intellectual level, insulted me by started plot threads it never intended to finish, insulted me on the level of what DC will allow to be put in their books without a mature readers label, insulted me by defiling the silver age of comics* and insulted me with the writers sheer ****ing ego.


*And I wasn't even reading comics in the silver age. That's how insulting this was.


That's it. Yeo is out. No more. I will retire me views on Identitiy Crisis to boards where people can see this for the industry ruining filth that it is.

[Brian R]

Wow, and you call me deluded? :rolleyes:

[The Shadow]

I would be in the liked it... but not loved it group.

I thought it was alright and it had some neat ideas... but the art wasn't great (again, not bad... but not great) and the implausibility of it all... the fact it took the worlds greatest detective THAT long to figure it out... I did find the murderer to be a surprise and did enjoy the scenes with Robin's dad.

Not bad... but not great

[Melissa]

Hated it. Absolutely hated every minute of it. It's a tough call which was worse, Avengers Disassembled, or Identity Crisis.

Both had nice art. Both had very poor characterisation. Both had huge holes in the plots, and both had otherwise stable women becoming capital-E evil because they suddenly went nuts. Nope, IC was worse because it had more holes. AD essentially only had one (admittedly it's the whole story) where IC had so many.... what was the flamethrower doing there? why go to all that trouble when a phone call would have worked... and the rape?

Distasteful, and not even defensible on the merits of the story, sorry.

[yeoman]

Wow, and you call me deluded? :rolleyes:

Really? Considering that this *is* the future of storytelling for the DCU in the foreseeable future?

Considering how much the pro-IC fans are jumping up and down for this and how much money it made you don't think Marvel is going to jump on the bandwagon?

DKR and Watchmen were actually good and they had a hand in helping to destroy the industry fifteen years ago.

[ratzo]

I think the only story element of any real value in IDC, now that it's all over, is seeing the villains get smarter. As a villain, you can serve as a punching bag for the likes of the JLA and JSA and Titans and whoever for only so long before you reach a stage where you have to change your approach somehow or get out of the game. And I hope this, at least, gets reflected in future DCU stories.

[thetechnocrat]

For the record, I didn't choose any poll category since the ending was bad and Sue was a character I liked. The mystery aspect is what kept me interested. This story coupled with the treatment of women in other titles makes me think the "misogynistic conspiracy" posts floating around are not too out there.

Who knows, maybe they will wipe all this out after the upcoming Crisis.

[thetechnocrat]

I think the only story element of any real value in IDC, now that it's all over, is seeing the villains get smarter. As a villain, you can serve as a punching bag for the likes of the JLA and JSA and Titans and whoever for only so long before you reach a stage where you have to change your approach somehow or get out of the game. And I hope this, at least, gets reflected in future DCU stories.

I did like Calculator being reintroduced as an evil Oracle. That was one good aspect of the tale. Also, the use of the villain satellite.

[Brian R]

Really? Considering that this *is* the future of storytelling for the DCU in the foreseeable future?

Considering how much the pro-IC fans are jumping up and down for this and how much money it made you don't think Marvel is going to jump on the bandwagon?

DKR and Watchmen were actually good and they had a hand in helping to destroy the industry fifteen years ago.

No, whats funny is that you actually believe that every other comic will follow IC in both style and execution. Of course DC is gonna hype it as having huge ramifications and such, but that doesnt mean squat in the real world. I dont expect DC to suddenly get all crazy, at least no more so than before IC anyway.

Will there be follow-up? Of course! Doc Light is now a badass again, and will be taking on the Titans in an upcoming issue. Some of the league members have added drama between them, including some huge secrets being held by Wally. But really, what do you think is going to come from all this? Do you think psychotic ex-wives and violent rape is going to become the norm? I sure as hell dont.

Oh, and complaining about things like the lack of a Parental Warning on the cover? Thin, very thin. Again, people have every right to HATE the book, that was not my point, but to say it was the worst thing of the year, and to consider quitting comics because of it-ridiculous! I have seen TONS of crappy films in my life, but for some reason I didnt stop watching movies. Same thing goes for just about every creative medium; music, novels, television, you gotta take the good with the bad and realize that your travesty is someone else's best thing evar.

[Fenix]

I vote yay, because of the suspense... but as a whole is more like something in between... I don´t dig the ending, though...

[yeoman]

No, whats funny is that you actually believe that every other comic will follow IC in both style and execution.


Could you strawman any more? I didn't say that, I never said that. I said it will effect the industry and a good deal of stories that are told by the big two for quite some time.

Of course DC is gonna hype it as having huge ramifications and such, but that doesnt mean squat in the real world.

Ordinarily. Except Meltzer's firends are writing most of their books and DC seems to treat them as their golden boys who can do no wrong.



Will there be follow-up? Of course! Doc Light is now a badass again, and will be taking on the Titans in an upcoming issue.

Would have been nice if that were even ****ing delt with in IC.

Oh, and complaining about things like the lack of a Parental Warning on the cover? Thin, very thin.

Because people have no right to know if the book they are buying contails relatively graphic portrayals of rape. [/sarcasm}

[Brian R]

I notice that the cries of "STRAWMAN!" are usually coming from people who have no other response. YOU are the one overreacting here, as if the apocalypse is upon us, not me.

However, I REALLY cant stand arguing with people about things which are a matter of opinion anyway. Are you going to convince me this was the worst story ever told? Not a chance. Am I going to convince you that it was actually pretty good? Nope.

[Smarty Jones]

If "Identity Crisis" was a "love letter" to DC and the Silver Age -- and Brad Meltzer has said he liked the Dibnys -- I shudder to think what he would have done to characters he detested.

[EZMOHR]

If "Identity Crisis" was a "love letter" to DC and the Silver Age -- and Brad Meltzer has said he liked the Dibnys -- I shudder to think what he would have done to characters he detested.


I think he did tinker with characters he hated....he called it Identity Crisis #7.


And what is with that creepy Elongated Man ending?

[Knightoftomorrow]

This story got me reading DC comics. I had picked up some stuff earlier, but this set up some interesting stuff and made me care about the characters a bit more than I did before. I enjoyed it all, even the ending.

[NickVinson]

Would the two gentlemen that are fighting in here kindly take it ELSEWHERE!!!

[HartyPotter]

If there wasn't so much hype about the mini, I would be perfectly satisfied with the story. I thought it was very well done in general, and a good deal better than 90+% of DC's other stories. Still, the ending made the book feel so... trivial. Jack Drake died because Jean randomly chose him for no reason other than because she was insane and missed Ray? I wanted this to have SOMETHING to do with Dr. Light and mindwiping. Oh well. That being said, it's well worth another read. Just not quite worth the hype.

[yeoman]

I notice that the cries of "STRAWMAN!" are usually coming from people who have no other response. YOU are the one overreacting here, as if the apocalypse is upon us, not me.


Except, you know, you blew what I actually said out of proportion to the point of actually making crap up, to make your own argument look good. Now last I looked, that actually was strawmanning.

[Brian R]

Except, you know, you blew what I actually said out of proportion to the point of actually making crap up, to make your own argument look good. Now last I looked, that actually was strawmanning.

Like I said, no response, and the fact that you keep harping on it doesnt change that.

How about actually posting something worthwile, or quitting the insults?

[NickVinson]

Okay. you are both being unnecessarily idiotic. Please quit it.

[Brian R]

Okay. you are both being unnecessarily idiotic. Please quit it.

Its not your place, or your right, to insult either of us, so back off bub.

I tried to be civil, but I will not be insulted by people without responding. If he keeps it up then so shall I, thats it, period. I have already stated there was no point to us arguing, but if he wishes to continue thats his perogative.

[Forsaken_One]

You're both insulting one another and ignoring the topic. At this point it most certainly is his and all of our place to tell you to take it to private messaging or email.

[Brian R]

But its not your right to insult us in any way, now is it? Nope, thats what I thought.

[yeoman]

Its not your place, or your right, to insult either of us, so back off bub.

I tried to be civil, but I will not be insulted by people without responding. If he keeps it up then so shall I, thats it, period. I have already stated there was no point to us arguing, but if he wishes to continue thats his perogative.

Civil? You flat out insulted me.

[NickVinson]

Its not your place, or your right, to insult either of us, so back off bub.

I tried to be civil, but I will not be insulted by people without responding. If he keeps it up then so shall I, thats it, period. I have already stated there was no point to us arguing, but if he wishes to continue thats his perogative.


You are both acting like Children. On the internet.

ON THE INTERNET!

what do you actually think this is going to accomplish? At this point all you two are doing is whipping out your penises and laying them on the table shouting "LOOK! LOOK HOW BIG AND IMPRESSIVE MY WANGaFICATION IS! LOOK I SAY!"

Do you have any idea how retarded you guys sound?

[yeoman]

Like I said, no response, and the fact that you keep harping on it doesnt change that.

Uh, I've mentioned once. And clairified once. Your position is that despite the fact that you were strawmanning anyone that calls you on it has no response. Despite the fact that I've spent a truckload of time on this board arguing about the details of IC, and providing ways I felt it could have been much better.

You, meanwhile, decided to insult me over how bad I thought the series was.


How about actually posting something worthwile, or quitting the insults?

Hey, if you want to apologize for throwing out the first insult, we might be able to work with that. Until then...

[Brian R]

Uh, I've mentioned once. And clairified once. Your position is that despite the fact that you were strawmanning anyone that calls you on it has no response. Despite the fact that I've spent a truckload of time on this board arguing about the details of IC, and providing ways I felt it could have been much better.

You, meanwhile, decided to insult me over how bad I thought the series was.




Hey, if you want to apologize for throwing out the first insult, we might be able to work with that. Until then...

@Nick, really, back off. Your name-calling has no place here. Nobody was talking to you, and pulling that "look I am going to show how much better than everyone else I am by calling them on their childishness" bit just doesnt cut it either.

@Yeoman
Lets see now, you really want me to expose you? You stated that IC had you *thinking* about quitting comics. How did I exaggerate your exaggeration exactly? Please let me know how down-to-earth your reply actually was, and how I blew it totally out of proportion? You are all hurt because you think that YOU were the only target of my initial post, which is incorrect. Just because you were the last person to post such feelings on THIS thread, on THIS site, doesnt make you the magical target of all my insults. People all over the place are acting like its WW3 because of IC, not just you. In fact, I have an entire thread dedicated to people overreacting about stuff on this board, and it was started before IC 7 came out.

Me, apologize? You must be mistaking me with someone else. I dont apologies unless I have done something that warrants it, and this is not one of those cases. Perhaps you are used to dealing with people who will do anything to avoid confrontation, but I sir, am not one of those people.

[NickVinson]

firstly.. saying you are acting like children is not name calling. If i were to say... call you a fuckwad (which i am NOT doing here.) that would name be calling.

what I take dispute with is the fact that you guys feel the need to press this greivance further. Why dont you just step away from the computer and cool your jets. both of you. this is just silly.

[Brian R]

You are both acting like Children. On the internet.

ON THE INTERNET!

what do you actually think this is going to accomplish? At this point all you two are doing is whipping out your penises and laying them on the table shouting "LOOK! LOOK HOW BIG AND IMPRESSIVE MY WANGaFICATION IS! LOOK I SAY!"

Do you have any idea how retarded you guys sound?

Thats not an insult? Im sorry then, because we must have different ideas about what the word "insult" means.

[NickVinson]

Thats not an insult? Im sorry then, because we must have different ideas about what the word "insult" means.

oh. no thats certainly an insult. but its not name calling.

[Brian R]

Well then, we are in total agreement. ;)

[NickVinson]

Well then, we are in total agreement. ;)

does anyone else find it fucked up that we aer just sitting here... waiting by our keyboards. waiting to one up each other in reply? This makes me feel stupid.

Im sorry. Im walking away. If you wish to continue with Yeoman... go ahead. Im gonna go sleep.

Apology accepted?

[Brian R]

does anyone else find it fucked up that we aer just sitting here... waiting by our keyboards. waiting to one up each other in reply? This makes me feel stupid.

Im sorry. Im walking away. If you wish to continue with Yeoman... go ahead. Im gonna go sleep.

Apology accepted?

Yep, I am just waiting to reply to stuff, thats generally what I do at this time of night, not much else to do before bed.

And Nick, while I am not apologizing, dont worry about it. People seem to have this misconception that if you get into it with someone it makes you enemies and you have to hate eachother for EVER! YEAH! But really, Im not even mad at anyone, and I certainly wouldnt hate a person just for saying what they want, nevermind on the internet.

I get into it with plenty of people, but then I might agree with them somewhere else or praise them for an intelligent post, its good to have a short memory, so to speak.

[NickVinson]

Yep, I am just waiting to reply to stuff, thats generally what I do at this time of night, not much else to do before bed.

And Nick, while I am not apologizing, dont worry about it. People seem to have this misconception that if you get into it with someone it makes you enemies and you have to hate eachother for EVER! YEAH! But really, Im not even mad at anyone, and I certainly wouldnt hate a person just for saying what they want, nevermind on the internet.

I get into it with plenty of people, but then I might agree with them somewhere else or praise them for an intelligent post, its good to have a short memory, so to speak.

Im sorry. I over reacted. and you dont have to apologize as i offended. so its cool.

we do agree that Identity Crisis kicked ass yes?

[Brian R]

Im sorry. I over reacted. and you dont have to apologize as i offended. so its cool.

we do agree that Identity Crisis kicked ass yes?

Well, as I have stated, I have mixed feelings. I definetly liked it overall, but I do think that there were some dangling plot points, as well as the violence against Sue being a little over-the-top. Its not that I mind that kind of violence, but only if it serves the story, and in this case I think a straight-up beating would have been plenty, no need to rape the women. Also, I did feel that the final issue wasnt up to the level of the previous six, it just wasnt as strong.

So, I liked it, but I dont know if I would say it kicked ass. I am probably more pumped about what will happen with Doc Light and between Bats and Flash though. Leaving dangling plot threads isnt a good thing per se, but it might lead to good things in the regular books, which would be fine with me.

[NickVinson]

Well, as I have stated, I have mixed feelings. I definetly liked it overall, but I do think that there were some dangling plot points, as well as the violence against Sue being a little over-the-top. Its not that I mind that kind of violence, but only if it serves the story, and in this case I think a straight-up beating would have been plenty, no need to rape the women. Also, I did feel that the final issue wasnt up to the level of the previous six, it just wasnt as strong.

So, I liked it, but I dont know if I would say it kicked ass. I am probably more pumped about what will happen with Doc Light and between Bats and Flash though. Leaving dangling plot threads isnt a good thing per se, but it might lead to good things in the regular books, which would be fine with me.


I take this as a yes. :D

all in all... i think i liked the quieter moments of the series. And when a writer subverts my expectations... and its well written i can give them a pass for not giving me a last issue full of fights and bang bang.

[Brian R]

I take this as a yes. :D

all in all... i think i liked the quieter moments of the series. And when a writer subverts my expectations... and its well written i can give them a pass for not giving me a last issue full of fights and bang bang.

Well, yeah, I liked it. Thats what I said!

I am definetly glad that I picked up this mini, a lot of cool moments overall. And yes, I can forgive the last issue, because you have to read a mini as one story, not six parts of a story, and judge it as such.

[yeoman]

@Yeoman
Lets see now, you really want me to expose you? You stated that IC had you *thinking* about quitting comics. How did I exaggerate your exaggeration exactly? Please let me know how down-to-earth your reply actually was, and how I blew it totally out of proportion?

You flat out siad my belief was that every comic would be like IC, when I said it would merely have great repercussions on the industry.

You are all hurt because you think that YOU were the only target of my initial post, which is incorrect. Just because you were the last person to post such feelings on THIS thread, on THIS site, doesnt make you the magical target of all my insults. People all over the place are acting like its WW3 because of IC, not just you. In fact, I have an entire thread dedicated to people overreacting about stuff on this board, and it was started before IC 7 came out.

Then you insulted a whole segment of people and used my post as the catalyst to call many people "crazy" and "dumb." My bad. :rolleyes:

Me, apologize? You must be mistaking me with someone else. I dont apologies unless I have done something that warrants it, and this is not one of those cases. Perhaps you are used to dealing with people who will do anything to avoid confrontation, but I sir, am not one of those people.

I'm used to dealing with Rumblers. We don't back down, we don't take crap and when someone insults us we certainly don't take it lightly.


Edit: Specifically

The insulting post:

Oh, and Im sorry for not being able to put this more diplomatically, but people who are contemplating quitting comics over this? Dumb. Im sorry, but there have been much worse comics published THIS YEAR, let alone ever. Sure, everyone is entitled to overreact, but thats just the most overboard I have ever seen. Thats like me saying I would never buy another Marvel comic because of Avengers Disassembled(which was the worst story of the year by a rather large margin), just crazy.

The lying, strawmanning post:
No, whats funny is that you actually believe that every other comic will follow IC in both style and execution. Of course DC is gonna hype it as having huge ramifications and such, but that doesnt mean squat in the real world. I dont expect DC to suddenly get all crazy, at least no more so than before IC anyway.

[BoosterBronze]

I dug the story a lot. Hours of reading enjoyment. Slightly anticlimactic. But I'd buy IC sequel in a heartbeat.

[phicks]

I voted for the Thumbs Up option, but it started far stronger than it ended. There wasn't much terribly interesting after the fight with Deathstroke.

[Arvandor]

I enjoyed it a lot. That's all that counts.

[Brian R]

You flat out siad my belief was that every comic would be like IC, when I said it would merely have great repercussions on the industry.



Then you insulted a whole segment of people and used my post as the catalyst to call many people "crazy" and "dumb." My bad. :rolleyes:



I'm used to dealing with Rumblers. We don't back down, we don't take crap and when someone insults us we certainly don't take it lightly.


Edit: Specifically

The insulting post:



The lying, strawmanning post:
Once again, you are upset because I slightly exaggerated your gross exaggeration. Call it whatever you will, but you keep harping on it because you really have no defense for your position in the first place.

Know what else? I couldnt care less if you felt insulted, when your posts consist of stuff like this:I don't think I've ever even *thought* about quitting buying comics. If I have it was never seriously.

Until Identity Crisis.

and this:I have read the issue. At this was the only comic/movie/show/book/video game/whatever I have *ever* gone through that had me shacking in rage. And I was buying comics in the mid ninties.

Not to mention all the IC bashing you did in the rumbles forum. How do you expect people to react? Should we respect you and think highly of you for reacting like that? I stand by my original statement.

And let me point out, once again, that YOU are the one not letting this drop. I was perfectly willing to do so, but you seem to want to prolong this, so whatever. Go ahead, keep yelling STRAWMAN from the rooftops, people can just go back and read what you wrote all over the place and judge for themselves.

[yeoman]

Once again, you are upset because I slightly exaggerated your gross exaggeration. Call it whatever you will, but you keep harping on it because you really have no defense for your position in the first place.


You know, other than that IC sucked more ass than I thought was possible to suck, and my posts being baed on my actual feelings.

Little things like that.

Know what else? I couldnt care less if you felt insulted, when your posts consist of stuff like this:

and this:

So, you don't care what I think because I disagree with you on IC being good, and instead, thought it was one of the single worst comics I've ever read, to the degree that it actually angered me and shook my faith in the industry? Wow, you're a real paragon of humanity.

Not to mention all the IC bashing you did in the rumbles forum. How do you expect people to react? Should we respect you and think highly of you for reacting like that? I stand by my original statement.

I think I should be allowed to have my own actual opinions. You, appearently, think otherwise.

And let me point out, once again, that YOU are the one not letting this drop. I was perfectly willing to do so, but you seem to want to prolong this, so whatever.

And yet, you keep replying. I least I'm honest with the fact that when insulted I fight back tenaciously.

[tricksterpup]

I vote yay, because of the suspense... but as a whole is more like something in between... I don´t dig the ending, though...

I have to disagree, the ending was fantastic. It was very touching and very real on how Ralph is dealing with Sue's death. This comic, I will say was a nice touch. The murderer was not the typical superpowered Villain. Her motives where not that of Destroying the Justice League. Just a lonely woman who wanted to get her husband back. It was very sad indeed. This comic was a nice change of pace. I will admit that the "entire Rape of Sue" as in poor taste, in my opinion. But everything else was nicely done. It was a very Mature book and nice look into human nature.

The one Item that did appear from all of this I am looking forward to seeing appear in the future is Wally's reaction of Batman being mind wiped. Will Batman ever let on that he knows? or Does he know and what will his reaction be when he finds out?

[Brian R]

You know, other than that IC sucked more ass than I thought was possible to suck, and my posts being baed on my actual feelings.

Little things like that.



So, you don't care what I think because I disagree with you on IC being good, and instead, thought it was one of the single worst comics I've ever read, to the degree that it actually angered me and shook my faith in the industry? Wow, you're a real paragon of humanity.



I think I should be allowed to have my own actual opinions. You, appearently, think otherwise.



And yet, you keep replying. I least I'm honest with the fact that when insulted I fight back tenaciously.


Again, I stand by my original statement. You have every right to react like a child and make yourself look foolish in the process, that is definetly your right to do so, you just cant expect people to take you seriously afterwards.

Remember kids, saying stuff like "this comic is so bad it actually had me thinking about quitting comics" doesnt come off as intelligent critism.

[yeoman]

Again, I stand by my original statement. You have every right to react like a child and make yourself look foolish in the process, that is definetly your right to do so, you just cant expect people to take you seriously afterwards.

Remember kids, saying stuff like "this comic is so bad it actually had me thinking about quitting comics" doesnt come off as intelligent critism.

I've made my critisms. This was merely the end result of six months of this comic pissing me off.

It does, however, amuse me when the guy who started throwing insults accuses others of being childish.

[Ned Leeds]

I give it an "eh". The ending of this series was very anti-climatic. But, if DC is truly using IDC to set up future stories..... I can't wait to get my hands on some comics in 2005. Lotta juicy stuff was left unresolved. :D

[ForEverAncien]

I have to disagree, the ending was fantastic. It was very touching and very real on how Ralph is dealing with Sue's death. This comic, I will say was a nice touch. The murderer was not the typical superpowered Villain. Her motives where not that of Destroying the Justice League. Just a lonely woman who wanted to get her husband back. It was very sad indeed. This comic was a nice change of pace. I will admit that the "entire Rape of Sue" as in poor taste, in my opinion. But everything else was nicely done. It was a very Mature book and nice look into human nature.

The one Item that did appear from all of this I am looking forward to seeing appear in the future is Wally's reaction of Batman being mind wiped. Will Batman ever let on that he knows? or Does he know and what will his reaction be when he finds out?

When that happens...I expect, a massive fallout, Bruce has done things against the League in the past, especially when his backup plans were used by Rhal Ghul, back then.

But this, this...oh mercy...this...should be a dozy, and already, Batman suspects something, he watched Wally very keenly, and he knows, that something is on Wally's mind...something heavy.

The only thing is, will any writer who touches the Bat titles, will follow through.

Time will tell.

*Anti-climatic music chimes in*

[Michael P]

It's weird, I was all up and down with this book. One issue, I'd think, "Okay, that was all right," and then the next I'd be, "Bu-huh? What was the point of that?"

Ultimately, though, the ending flopped so spectacularly that I have to give the series a resounding "Nay." I'll be eBaying the issues after New Year's.

[Ontir]

I bought an issue or two, then realized I just didn't care. Now that it's over, I would like to know who did it. I heard something about the Top, but I don't know much beyond that. What's with all the mind-wiping?

[Archyduke]

I've yet to read issue #7, so I'll give it a "yea". I also haven't happened to read the infamous rape issue, so I can't really comment on that either. What I got out of it was a decent mystery with some entertaining characterization; however, I can see why many people, in particular more dedicated DC-buffs, would dislike it.

[Ontir]

Sue Dibny is an espeecailly loved character by many of us. To kill her off, is bad enough. To have her raped and murdered the night she intends to tell her husband she's pregnant is just unacceptable to a good number of us. That event soured me on the whole series. Once it was done, I just didn't really care too much about the rest of the story. I'd like to know who's responsible, but the story itself just doesn't interest me. If I were to become a writer for DC, I would, as soon as possible, find a way to bring her back, even if Ralph turned around to watch her step out of the shower, asking why he was looking at her like that. Ray and Jean split up. Barry and Iris split up, then kind of got back together before he died. Lois and Clark have only recently in comic time) gotten together. Ralph and Sue were the old married couple of the DCU, and that shouldn't have been taken for granted, or thrown away. Meltzer, and whoever greenlit this should be flogged!

[bfrank]

get out much?

[GremlinClr]

This book insulted me on an intellectual level, insulted me by started plot threads it never intended to finish, insulted me on the level of what DC will allow to be put in their books without a mature readers label, insulted me by defiling the silver age of comics* and insulted me with the writers sheer ****ing ego.



See, I don't get this. Almost every superhero comic you read, some ones getting the snot beat out of them, or tortured or downright murdered. Yet I never see any outcry. That tells me "Deplorable violance=OK." But rape? Whoa there buddy. You've gone too far. I'm sorry, but I can't see rape being worse than murder.

As for my vote. IC #1-6, YAY! #7, WTF!?!

Worst. Ending. Ever. :mad:

[NickVinson]

I have to disagree, the ending was fantastic. It was very touching and very real on how Ralph is dealing with Sue's death. This comic, I will say was a nice touch. The murderer was not the typical superpowered Villain. Her motives where not that of Destroying the Justice League. Just a lonely woman who wanted to get her husband back. It was very sad indeed. This comic was a nice change of pace. I will admit that the "entire Rape of Sue" as in poor taste, in my opinion. But everything else was nicely done. It was a very Mature book and nice look into human nature.

The one Item that did appear from all of this I am looking forward to seeing appear in the future is Wally's reaction of Batman being mind wiped. Will Batman ever let on that he knows? or Does he know and what will his reaction be when he finds out?

When that happens...I expect, a massive fallout, Bruce has done things against the League in the past, especially when his backup plans were used by Rhal Ghul, back then.

But this, this...oh mercy...this...should be a dozy, and already, Batman suspects something, he watched Wally very keenly, and he knows, that something is on Wally's mind...something heavy.

The only thing is, will any writer who touches the Bat titles, will follow through.

Time will tell.

*Anti-climatic music chimes in*

From DC's website:

Written by Geoff Johns; Art and cover by Howard Porter and Livesay

The events of IDENTITY CRISIS affect the Flash's world as a gathering of unlikely individuals pay their last respects to the fallen and Wally West makes a monumental decision about his personal life. Plus, the upcoming "Rogues War" begins to take shape. And just what is Batman's problem with Wally?

DC Universe | 32pg. | Color | $2.25 US

On Sale December 29, 2004

[yeoman]

See, I don't get this. Almost every superhero comic you read, some ones getting the snot beat out of them, or tortured or downright murdered. Yet I never see any outcry. That tells me "Deplorable violance=OK." But rape? Whoa there buddy. You've gone too far. I'm sorry, but I can't see rape being worse than murder.

As for my vote. IC #1-6, YAY! #7, WTF!?!

Worst. Ending. Ever. :mad:

I think books with, say, Authority levels of graphic violence *should* have mature readers labels.

[Sk8maven]

Read issue #1, thought it was mean and nasty. Read issue #2,thought it was meaner and nastier and going places I didn't want to follow. Skimmed issue #3...decided I was only going to follow this one through spoiler threads.

I not only know when to walk away, I know when to run like he!!.

Maven

[tricksterpup]

It's weird, I was all up and down with this book. One issue, I'd think, "Okay, that was all right," and then the next I'd be, "Bu-huh? What was the point of that?"

Ultimately, though, the ending flopped so spectacularly that I have to give the series a resounding "Nay." I'll be eBaying the issues after New Year's.
But what was pointless? Why did you not like it? What was it missing? I am very curious to hear your opinion on this.

[Michael P]

I could go into extreme detail, but it all comes down to this whole murder mystery just not working. I mean, the final reveal comes not from the heroes sniffing out the truth and confronting the criminal, or even the old Perry Mason technique of grilling someone else until the killer, who happens to be in the room, stands up and announces it loudly, but a silly, Encyclopedia Brown-ish slip of the tongue. And this is the only form of payoff we get from the story at all. The other various elements brought up (the Calculator's operation, the mindwiping, Luthor's supersuit) play no part at all in the denouement, and are left hanging. These, and the lack of a clear protagonist, are hallmarks of a bad detective story.

And beyond all that, it's just depressing. Atom's in subatomica, Jean's in Arkham (even though, in my estimation, she doesn't meet the legal definition of insanity and should stand trial for at least manslaughter), Ralph's cracked, Tim's an orphan, Firehawk's quitting, and Bruce hates Wally. There's not a single thing here worth feeling good about this. I could excuse this if the craft were at a better level, but, as I pointed out, it's not.

About the only thing it has going for it is Morales' art.

[the Monitor]

Sue Dibny is an espeecailly loved character by many of us. To kill her off, is bad enough. To have her raped and murdered the night she intends to tell her husband she's pregnant is just unacceptable to a good number of us. That event soured me on the whole series. Once it was done, I just didn't really care too much about the rest of the story.


She was murdered the night she planned to tell her husband she was pregnant. She was raped years before. The Power Pact group went after Dr. Light for the murder because they thought it was related to the rape/mindwipe from years before.

[Arvandor]

What I didn't like about IC:

The dangling plot threads. Most of these should have been at least partially tied up by the end. Leaving one or two would have been okay. But there are far too many questions and scenarios left unresolved by this story. Yes, they probably will be continued in other titles. But that's just cynical marketing, and is cruel to the reader.
Meaningless scenes. Firestorm's death was completely irrelevant. One or two other scenes are equally meaningless. Not as many as other people claim, but a few.
Inconsistent art. Rags should have paid more attention to his work. He KNEW people would be scrutinizing every detail.

What I DID like about IC:

The Characterization. Everyone that appeared in IC, no matter how brief their scene, was fully developed and were presented as human beings. The heroes had flaws and worries, and the bad guys had realistic motives and plans. Characters appeared who some of us had never even heard of before, and yet this story made us care about them. And the best characterization of all was Batman, who is presented as more human than he has been in YEARS, even though he doesn't appear all that often. That alone deserves credit.
The tension. Say what you like, but the tension was palpable throughout the entire series, and thick enough to chew. You could even feel the tension online, with people arguing over the possibilities like I have never seen before, and desperately waiting for the next issue.

Overall, I liked it a lot. I enjoyed reading it. I just wish the ending would have answered more questions than it did.

One problem a lot of people seem to have with this series is that they consider half the story to be irrelevant to the plot.
As a murder mystery, they may be right. But IC is more than that.
Identity Crisis is an exploration into the nature and consequences of the Secret Identity, and in that respect, I think it works very well. The JLA mindwipe plot was all about how far the JLA will go to protect their identities, even if it means betraying each other.
Which ties it together with the murder, and Jean Loring. Keeping your secrets from your enemies is one thing, but keeping them from your loved ones is something else. After Jean's betrayal, the JLA are going to have to be extra careful who they trust from now on.
Take Superman, for example. Clark tells his wife EVERYTHING. But after this, the rest of the JLA are going to want him to start being careful about what he tells Lois. But Lois will know that he's keeping things from her, and this could put a TREMENDOUS strain on their marriage.

Finally, I don't think it was Sue Dibny who DC wanted to kill off. Nor was it Jack Drake.
I think it was Atom.
True, Atom isn't dead, but his career is. Atom is gone, and I don't think we will be seeing him again for a VERY long time.

[TCJohnson]

I think it was Jack Drake who DC wanted to kill off. That has the most effect on a character with his own title. They could have left Atom in limbo.

[Matt Algren]

See, I don't get this. Almost every superhero comic you read, some ones getting the snot beat out of them, or tortured or downright murdered. Yet I never see any outcry. That tells me "Deplorable violance=OK." But rape? Whoa there buddy. You've gone too far. I'm sorry, but I can't see rape being worse than murder.
To me, it's the difference between realistic violence and fantasy violence. Showing a character being raped is miles away from showing the Fatal 500 fighting the Legion. The line's being blurred to the point where a lot of folks (me included) aren't so sure about showing comics to kids anymore.

Look at it this way. Last week on JL Unlimited, we were shown a large group of heroes fighting a battle with robots. There was violence, but it was clearly not of the "could happen in the real world" sort. On the other hand, there were also shows on network television after 9pm that dealt with real murder, rape, etc. Network executives and censors wouldn't allow the 2nd group to intermingle with the first because it's clearly inappropriate.

That's what comic book editors used to do.

[bfrank]

To me, it's the difference between realistic violence and fantasy violence. Showing a character being raped is miles away from showing the Fatal 500 fighting the Legion. The line's being blurred to the point where a lot of folks (me included) aren't so sure about showing comics to kids anymore.

Look at it this way. Last week on JL Unlimited, we were shown a large group of heroes fighting a battle with robots. There was violence, but it was clearly not of the "could happen in the real world" sort. On the other hand, there were also shows on network television after 9pm that dealt with real murder, rape, etc. Network executives and censors wouldn't allow the 2nd group to intermingle with the first because it's clearly inappropriate.

That's what comic book editors used to do.


but murder is alright :confused:

[Matt Algren]

but murder is alright :confused:
No.

First, it's kinda hard to have a murder mystery without a murder.

Second, depending on which issue you read, Sue was either killed with a flamethrower or by someone shrinking down to the size of a gnat and going in her ear.

In other words, fantasy violence.

[Sk8maven]

I've yet to read issue #7, so I'll give it a "yea".

Let us know if your vote changes once you HAVE read issue #7.

Maven

[Viking Bastard]

Definately a 'Yay'.

It wasn't perfect, but I liked it.

But yeah, a bit too many dangling plot threads. And how did Jean Loring know
all those secret IDs? Bruce and Clark, allright, but Tim? I can believe she would
be able to discover it on her own, since she knew Bruce's, but would she then
talk so openly of Robin as 'Tim'? It just seemed strange to me.

[CjP]

Was that enough spoiler warning? Okay...

* So Jean Loring killed Sue (accidentally) and faked her own attack to draw Ray back into her arms. I can buy that. But what about the whole Boomerang/ Jack Drake thing? What's her motive/benefit from doing that?

* I understand that the Luthor powersuit will be followed up on in a Teen Titans issue. Is a similar follow-up planned for Dr. Light? I can't believe, especially after we last see him with the evil glint in his eye, that this is the end of his involvement.

* Batman was mindwiped. Got that. Does he know he was? Ollie seems to suggest that he does, but I can't imagine Batman letting something like that go, especially considering discussion with Superman regarding the 'Emperor Joker' events.

All in all, a good story, but I'm left with questions that I think should have been addressed in what I believe to be is a self-contained story (albeit one that takes place in current continuity). Thanks for your time!

[Kevinroc]

1) Jean hired Boomerang to attack Jack so the heroes would think that Boomerang was the one who killed Sue and attacked her. She placed the gun thinking Jack would have killed Boomerang and lived. That didn't go as planned. But this raises the question of why Jean knew Robin's true ID...

2) Yes, Dr. Light will challenge the Teen Titans in the story following the Luthor armor.

3) We don't know what Batman knows about what happened.

[Archyduke]

At the end of issue #7, someone in the villain's lair/hang-out is ranting in the background in silhouette, saying something about "the red/green". The goatee on the figure seems to hint that it's Dr. Light saying these things; if so, how did he go from smirking sinisterly to this? Did he get beaten up by Mr. Miracle or something? :confused:

[pureclint]

Thats the shadow theif...

who is kind of nuts.

[Forsaken_One]

I just wonder how Robin's secret identity went from no one, including Oracle, knowing it back on 2001 to the ex-wife of a B-list hero who isn't even near the bat-family knowing it. Did they just want to kill off a hero's guardian and couldn't think of anyone else? Killing off Wonder Girl's mother would have made more sense, she doesn't even have a secret identity.

[IamtheRock3]

yes but the fact they have no real connection is why Sue Picked her


because really Tim and his Dad had ZERO to do with this which is what would lead him away from Sue.

[Forsaken_One]

yes but the fact they have no real connection is why Sue Picked her

because really Tim and his Dad had ZERO to do with this which is what would lead him away from Sue.
No, no. I'm not questioning why Jean (I assume that's who you mean since Sue was kinda killed) would have targeted Jack Drake. I'm questioning A) how she knew to target Jack Drake; how would she know that Tim Drake is Robin? And B) what DC as a company and what the writers thought they would accomplish by killing off Jack Drake and repeating in various comics that Tim's now an orphan (which he isn't but that's not the issue).

[Zero Hunter]

I can't wait to see Dr. Light go up against the Titans again. I think they are going to be in for a real shock by how evil he is now. That and it is during that arc that we get to see Hawk and Dove return, but will it be Dove and a new Hawk or a totaly new Hawk and Dove?

Can't wait!

[Titanium]

What I'm wondering is will Batman just let Jean stay in Arkham, where most of his rogue's are residing or eventually reside, while Jean pretty much knows the entire super hero community's secret identities for some unexplained reason.

You'd think Batman would keep his secret a secret.


He also probably knows he's been mindwhiped. But he's probably done it a lot of times to the same people who had it done to him.


Here's another loose end, sorta.

Is Elongated Man crazy now or is he talking to his dead wife and able to hear her?

The way I read it, I got the notion he just snapped, but I also felt like maybe he knew there was an afterlife, GA can account for that, and knew she could hear him. But how can he hear her?

There's also what Flash is going to do with the knowledge of Batman's mindwhipe eating at him.

[Deathstroke]

Here's another loose end, sorta.

Is Elongated Man crazy now or is he talking to his dead wife and able to hear her?

The way I read it, I got the notion he just snapped, but I also felt like maybe he knew there was an afterlife, GA can account for that, and knew she could hear him. But how can he hear her?



I am not sure that Ralph has snapped. I think he's talking to her and then the "ghost" of Sue said I love you too, but it's not something Ralph heard.

[DrHelix]

Here's another loose end which I hope gets tied up sooner than later. What's the deal with Boomerang's son? We've gotten the fact that a) he has superspeed, b) Digger is in some manner his father, and c) Golden Glider is not his mother. I really missed there not being some type of resolution to that thread in the last issue. I've seen something in future solicitations about there being some kind of Rogue War in Flash soon. Maybe that will clear up this issue a bit.

[marshal99]

Parallels between this Identity crap and Avengers dissembled crap ....

Pointless deaths :- Sue Dibny , Antman
Needless deaths :- Firestorm/Jack Drake , Hawkeye/Agatha Harkness
One of their own who became insane :- Jean Loring , Scarlet Witch

[Forsaken_One]

I think one thing we can all agree on is that Identity Crisis was crafted to get people to read other comics. The new Captain Boomerang and some mind-wiping stuff is going to take place in Flash, Jack Drake fallout will (hopefully) happen in Robin, the mind-wipe of Batman will take place in JLA (I'd like to think it takes place in Batman but I doubt it), and the whole Atom arc will probably be what Countdown's about in some way. I guess that's the way of comics, not to resolve anything. It still... kinda sucks though.

[pureclint]

I think one thing we can all agree on is that Identity Crisis was crafted to get people to read other comics. The new Captain Boomerang and some mind-wiping stuff is going to take place in Flash, Jack Drake fallout will (hopefully) happen in Robin, the mind-wipe of Batman will take place in JLA (I'd like to think it takes place in Batman but I doubt it), and the whole Atom arc will probably be what Countdown's about in some way. I guess that's the way of comics, not to resolve anything. It still... kinda sucks though.


They resolved some but I think IC was optioned to get a few things done.

Kill a few characters
Explore a more "real" side of the Heroes
Amp up the Villians
Tie in to all the set up and create some more set up for future stories, (Just about EVERY comic storyline does this, IC tied up its main plot thread yet it left some things open)

[Geardaddy]

Here are a couple of questions that entered my mind upon completion of Identity Crisis.

1) Will there be some animosity between Ralph and Ray due to the events of IC? I'd like to see how the two characters interact now with all that has happened.

2) The last scene with Ralph made me wonder if Ralph has snapped. I believe it was meant to be him talking to her through a spiritual means, but it wouldn't be far fetched at all to have Ralph snap due to his loss. Could this and should this result if Ralph going rogue and becoming a villian? It's not likely, but kinda fun to think about.

[Phoney Bone]

Ralph talking to sue is no nuttier than someone talking to their loved one's headstone in a cemetary. I though it was touching.

[VietN]

All I got from issue #7 was who did the deed.

THAT is the only thing that was resolved. I feel cheated!!!

Everyone here has great questions that should have been resolved. I don't care if they're going to go into what happened in some other story arc. You build a story, you should finish it.

[Zero Hunter]

I think one thing we can all agree on is that Identity Crisis was crafted to get people to read other comics. The new Captain Boomerang and some mind-wiping stuff is going to take place in Flash, Jack Drake fallout will (hopefully) happen in Robin, the mind-wipe of Batman will take place in JLA (I'd like to think it takes place in Batman but I doubt it), and the whole Atom arc will probably be what Countdown's about in some way. I guess that's the way of comics, not to resolve anything. It still... kinda sucks though.

Boomerang JR. looks like he will be in next months issue of the Flash which is the funeral of Captain Boomerang.

[Titanium]

2) The last scene with Ralph made me wonder if Ralph has snapped. I believe it was meant to be him talking to her through a spiritual means, but it wouldn't be far fetched at all to have Ralph snap due to his loss. Could this and should this result if Ralph going rogue and becoming a villian? It's not likely, but kinda fun to think about.


I don't want to see it, but if Plastic Man is supposedly super deadly according to Batman, an evil Elongated Man could be even more dangerous. Elongated Man pushing his powers to their limit all in the sake of vengeance, putting Plastic Man to shame.

[Kevinroc]

Boomerang JR. looks like he will be in next months issue of the Flash which is the funeral of Captain Boomerang.

Seen the cover for Flash #220?

http://comicbookresources.com/news/preview.php?image=solicits/dc032005/big/FlashCv220.jpg

[Rich L]

Ralph talking to sue is no nuttier than someone talking to their loved one's headstone in a cemetary. I though it was touching.

Ditto. And don't forget that it was Ollie that suggested that Ralph talk to Sue, and that she could hear him. The 'I love you too' was a nice final touch.

I think that as a whole the series was succesful but there are problems and questions left open;

1. How did Jean know Tim's secret identity?

2. Will Atom recover (I assume that JLA is set before IC now, and I now wonder if the Countdown cover has been altered somehow, and its actually Ray on there)?

3. Jean knows most of the superhero community's id's; and now she's in Arkham?!? Recipe for trouble!

4. How did Jean know to contact Calculator?

5. Why set up plotlines as red herrings only to allow them to spin off into other titles (Owen, armor, etc)? I mean, good from a sales standpoint but lousy from a storytelling standpoint.

6. Is this really going to change the DCU? At the moment the only people who know about the mindwipes who didn't before are Flash and Light -although with Light appearing in the Titans, I suspect that could change...

7. I suspect we will see Batman realising what the Pact did and performing a smackdown - that should be interesting...

8. Will Ralph recover? And will we see him in the DCU anytime soon?

Anyway, overall not a bad story but too many spin offs to be self contained...

[matewan1990]

Boomerang JR. looks like he will be in next months issue of the Flash which is the funeral of Captain Boomerang.

Could Boomerang Jr. have some relation to The Top, who, as it's been shown, was able to jump around into other people's bodies? The Top has superspeed. I'm just hoping that Boomerang Jr. isn't the lovechild of Barry Allen and Gwen Stacy ... you know (now) how she got around ...

[bannermanonemillion]

Ditto. And don't forget that it was Ollie that suggested that Ralph talk to Sue, and that she could hear him. The 'I love you too' was a nice final touch.

I think that as a whole the series was succesful but there are problems and questions left open;

1. How did Jean know Tim's secret identity?

2. Will Atom recover (I assume that JLA is set before IC now, and I now wonder if the Countdown cover has been altered somehow, and its actually Ray on there)?

3. Jean knows most of the superhero community's id's; and now she's in Arkham?!? Recipe for trouble!

4. How did Jean know to contact Calculator?

5. Why set up plotlines as red herrings only to allow them to spin off into other titles (Owen, armor, etc)? I mean, good from a sales standpoint but lousy from a storytelling standpoint.

6. Is this really going to change the DCU? At the moment the only people who know about the mindwipes who didn't before are Flash and Light -although with Light appearing in the Titans, I suspect that could change...

7. I suspect we will see Batman realising what the Pact did and performing a smackdown - that should be interesting...

8. Will Ralph recover? And will we see him in the DCU anytime soon?

Anyway, overall not a bad story but too many spin offs to be self contained...


If nothing else I'm prayin' for #7 to happen!

[CjP]

If nothing else I'm prayin' for #7 to happen!

Heh. Tower of Babel 2.0, anyone? :D

[Forsaken_One]

Anyone remember the Elseworld's Finest with Barbara Gordon's Gotham completely cut off from the rest of the US? That's kinda what I'd like to see Gotham become under Batman for metahumans. You can play anywhere else, but come here and you'll end up in jail, regardless of which side you're on.

[hitokiri_]

especially issue 7. am i the only one who thinks that IDC is just a setup for a new event.

[Mon-el]

Nope your not the only one that enjoyed Identity Crisis and that includes #7. Sure Its a set up for possible stories what series isn't nowadays. I normally refuse to respond to the Ic threads, but I enjoyed the series alot.

[Nightcrawler]

I really didn't like IDC.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I enjoyed It. I named It as my Top Ten In DC this year!

[hitokiri_]

am i the only one who also believes that the hanging plot line and holes in the story is deliberate in order for the continuity to take place.

am i the only one who sees a possible batman-atom crossover, and joker and jean loring as their enemies?

[mike626]

I also liked IDC I think it was the best story to come out in awhile.

[Viking Bastard]

And I give you: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=33634

Thou art on the winning side, yes?

[hitokiri_]

well... it seems that its not only me who really enjoyed IDC.

[Bat-Mite]

am i the only one who also believes that the hanging plot line and holes in the story is deliberate in order for the continuity to take place.


No, I believe the plot holes are just plot holes.

Do notice that I started liking IDC, but really... the revelation of issue 7... plot holes big enough you can ride Jupiter through them and still have space to do parallel parking with it.

How can Jean be the killer? She was in another city and in another state just a few moments after the murder. She couldn't even use the thing that killed Sue, only Atom can use his tech without dying, that's the whole point of why he doesn't share it with others. Why in crap's name she had a flame thrower with her?

These are not plot holes, these are really crappy ass writing faults.

As a murder mystery, which was what originally attracted me to this mini series, it fails abysmally.

As drama, it is almost emotional pornography.

[Bat-Mite]

Oh, and even if these plot holes are done deliberately, then we have a bigger plot hole. why didn't Atom or Batman go "Hey... wait a minute, that crap makes no freaking sense!" since they should easily figure out it doesn't.

[HartyPotter]

I think the majority of the people seem to think that it was a very good story. What is more debateable is whether it was worth the hype that DC gave it. Such as the promise of major shift in the status quo. I can see how IC could potentially lead to something major affecting the DCU, but it didn't happen in the pages of that story.

[hitokiri_]

I think the majority of the people seem to think that it was a very good story. What is more debateable is whether it was worth the hype that DC gave it. Such as the promise of major shift in the status quo. I can see how IC could potentially lead to something major affecting the DCU, but it didn't happen in the pages of that story.



well... at the section of IDC in dccomics.com, the critics told the readers that this is a good pull for those who haven't read dc. so its safe to say that this is just the beginning. dc has something for the readers in 2005 that's for sure.

[HartyPotter]

yup, and I'll definitely be on board for that. :)

And I heart Jeon Ji Hyun

[hitokiri_]

yup, and I'll definitely be on board for that. :)

And I heart Jeon Ji Hyun



wow, you know her.

[HartyPotter]

wow, you know her.

Well, I'm a Korean-American so I somewhat familiar with a few of South Korea's actors and actresses in movies and dramas. I saw My Sassy Girl a few years ago and have since then saw the rest of her movies (with the exception of White Valentine, because I heard it was a bore). Since then, I've seen MSG and the "prequel" Windstruck (I'm using the American/International titles) so many times I've lost count.

[Kevin Street]

Rich L summed things up nicely.

1. How did Jean know Tim's secret identity?

Yeah, this is probably the strangest question. It's hard to believe that some secondary character like Alfred told her, and since Tim came onto the superhero scene long after Jean left it, there's no simple reason she'd know this information. It does make one wonder how many other identities Jean has learned.

3. Jean knows most of the superhero community's id's; and now she's in Arkham?!? Recipe for trouble!

Exactly! And to make it even worse, the Arkham villians probably know that she's there because of the ID killings (they were widely publicized on TV, and Jean's incarceration was front page news in the Enquirer), so they know she has knowledge of many heroes secrets.

It makes me wonder if Batman or the other heroes had her mindwiped...

4. How did Jean know to contact Calculator

Good question! And for that matter, where did Jean find the flamethrower and the other shrunken weapons she mentions? She may be a lawyer, but she pulled off quite a trick when she found and hired Calculator, then hid her tracks so effectively he couldn't find her later. Who knew that Jean had such resourcefulness and skill?

6. Is this really going to change the DCU? At the moment the only people who know about the mindwipes who didn't before are Flash and Light -although with Light appearing in the Titans, I suspect that could change...

7. I suspect we will see Batman realising what the Pact did and performing a smackdown - that should be interesting...

Yeah, I can't see any way Bruce would ever accept people screwing with his mind, especially after the whole Wally/Spectre thing. This has to be a major source of conflict in the future, if they want to remain true to his character. Batman trusts no one unless he absolutely has to - and now he finds out that a bunch of the people he grudgingly learned to trust did this to him, while others knew about it and said nothing? Hoo boy.

[The Shadow]

5. Why set up plotlines as red herrings only to allow them to spin off into other titles (Owen, armor, etc)? I mean, good from a sales standpoint but lousy from a storytelling standpoint.

6. Is this really going to change the DCU?
Those are my 2 biggest issues.

[Kevinroc]

Ditto. And don't forget that it was Ollie that suggested that Ralph talk to Sue, and that she could hear him. The 'I love you too' was a nice final touch.

I think that as a whole the series was succesful but there are problems and questions left open;

1. How did Jean know Tim's secret identity?

That was never explained in any satisfactory manner.

2. Will Atom recover (I assume that JLA is set before IC now, and I now wonder if the Countdown cover has been altered somehow, and its actually Ray on there)?

I'm sure Atom will come back at some point.

3. Jean knows most of the superhero community's id's; and now she's in Arkham?!? Recipe for trouble!

She's so heavily medicated she wouldn't be able to talk to anybody anyways.

4. How did Jean know to contact Calculator?

In the mini, Atom told Jean that Hawkman wanted to investigate Calculator since he was a big threat. This was before Jack Drake was killed.

5. Why set up plotlines as red herrings only to allow them to spin off into other titles (Owen, armor, etc)? I mean, good from a sales standpoint but lousy from a storytelling standpoint.

Definitely so. Other writers have to work with the changes made to the DCU and that is rather sloppy.

6. Is this really going to change the DCU? At the moment the only people who know about the mindwipes who didn't before are Flash and Light -although with Light appearing in the Titans, I suspect that could change...

That depends on the other writers. Although Geoff Johns, Judd Winick and Greg Rucka have spoken to Meltzer and are following up on the events of ID Crisis in the various titles that they write.

7. I suspect we will see Batman realising what the Pact did and performing a smackdown - that should be interesting...

Barry's dead. Not much Bats can do about that.

I don't think Hal will be rejoining the JLA anytime soon anyways. Even without knowing about The Pact, Bats would still rather have John or Kyle as the JLA's resident GL, but he definitely won't be happy with Hal anytime soon. Whether he finds out or not.

Dinah's in the Birds of Prey and that group is no longer operating in Gotham.

Atom's MIA.

Hawkman is more attached to the JSA even though he isn't currently a member.

Green Arrow... who knows. But Bats won't be happy.

I don't know if JLA writer Kurt Busiek will do any ID Crisis follow-ups. He's currently in the middle of his CSA story, then a fill in team then Busiek is on the book regularly for the forseeable future.

8. Will Ralph recover? And will we see him in the DCU anytime soon?

I don't know if we'll see Ralph soon but I imagine he will recover. It'll take time...

Anyway, overall not a bad story but too many spin offs to be self contained...

[ElijahS23]

IDC has been one of the biggest comic book letdowns that I can remember. After being enthralled w/ issue #1, like most were, I found myself at issue #7 feeling the exact opposite. The pacing was lousy and, although I liked Morales' art in JSA (which in IDC is pretty lackluster), it just didn't complement Meltzer's writing most of the time. It was like, "Okay, here's the killer..., now let's wrap it up, B!"
IMHO, Meltzer is 1 and 1 so far (I liked "Archer's Quest") in comics, and I'm sort of hesitant to check out anything else he does in comics...

[Calamas]

I enjoyed It. I named It as my Top Ten In DC this year!
I’m with SUPERECWFAN1 on this. It also made my Top 10 in DC. But I have to disagree with you, hitokiri. #7 was a major disappointment. The reason the series makes my Top 10 is because it had me anxiously awaiting each next issue and everybody was talking about it, especially in the wake of “Dissembled,” which was horrible. I know I keep repeating myself, but here are my two quotes that sum it up:

In reference to the Top 10: If the final issue had come out next year, Identity Crisis would have made #1.

And in reference to the series as a whole: I wasn’t cheated out of $28.00, I was cheated out of four.

[NickVinson]

especially issue 7. am i the only one who thinks that IDC is just a setup for a new event.

No I enjoyed it immensly. At first I thought 7 was a let down. and then the more I thought about it the better I liked it.

[BlackKnight]

I thought IDC was an excellent book, the ending was not a let down to me, but heart wrenching, to find that a woman wants you back so much that she goes crazy is just scary and the whole thing with Ralph at the end was both heart wrenching and heart warming at the same time...

[pureclint]

Exactly BK, and of course the series set up tons of neat little stories to come...as a good company crossover should.

[BlackKnight]

Exactly BK, and of course the series set up tons of neat little stories to come...as a good company crossover should.

Oh god we agreed, looking for the end of the world. :) (just joking).

[tricksterpup]

I thought IDC was an excellent book, the ending was not a let down to me, but heart wrenching, to find that a woman wants you back so much that she goes crazy is just scary and the whole thing with Ralph at the end was both heart wrenching and heart warming at the same time...
I am also with this.. This was a touching ending of a hell of a ride. It a was a very deep book at the end and very real.

[pureclint]

Oh god we agreed, looking for the end of the world. :) (just joking).


He man we agree here and there ...mostly we disagree on the changes in Avengers, that I just chalk up to different tastes. :rolleyes:

[BlackKnight]

He man we agree here and there ...mostly we disagree on the changes in Avengers, that I just chalk up to different tastes. :rolleyes:

I was just joking, I know we actually agree on a lot except with Avengers.. I don't know what to chack that up to, guess taste works..

[pureclint]

You know it would royaly suck if part of the world ended everytime we agreed...perhaps for the better good we need to debate more!!! :D

As to Avengers tastes it is odd to me; Dane Whitman was my fav Avenger for a while when I was younger (in the BK, Crystal, Sersi era) and we both have a high respect for the Avengers history...

Now back to IDC...

What was your favorite scene?

My two where the Deathstroke (the true anti Captain America) fight and the Hal Ollie talk...

[BlackKnight]

You know it would royaly suck if part of the world ended everytime we agreed...perhaps for the better good we need to debate more!!!

LOL, well I suppose you might like the new Thor idea or think it would be cool for spidey to lose his Secret ID.. Or we can go back to the tried and true "Wolverine is just not an avenger debate". LOL

[Ned Leeds]

....am i the only one who thinks that IDC is just a setup for a new event.

Yes


And Reference to thread title... Yes.

You are the only one who like it.

[Buried Alien]

I enjoyed IDENTITY CRISIS. The violence was a bit over-the-top, but the storytelling was pretty solid. It's the kind of story I'll go for once, but I hope DC doesn't make a habit of this kind of story. It's the kind of story that is good if you get one taste of it, but you don't want to go back for more.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Kevinroc]

I enjoyed It. I named It as my Top Ten In DC this year!

It amazes me that you and I are on the opposite end of Sins Past (I liked it, you hated it) and IDC (you loved it and I didn't care for it).

Really, it is amazing.

[The Shadow]

IDC has been one of the biggest comic book letdowns that I can remember. After being enthralled w/ issue #1, like most were, I found myself at issue #7 feeling the exact opposite. The pacing was lousy and, although I liked Morales' art in JSA (which in IDC is pretty lackluster), it just didn't complement Meltzer's writing most of the time. It was like, "Okay, here's the killer..., now let's wrap it up, B!"
I found it a let down too... I was SO into it from the beginning... but the plot holes were HUGE, and red herrings that SHOULD have been dealt with or at least acknowledged (witha See Batman #??? for the full story) were left up in the air... I know they were suppose to be plot threads for other series'... but like any good story they SHOULD have been dealt with.

I LOVED (in a readership way) the death of Tim's father... very well done, as was the surprise I had at who the murderer was. That being said the speed at which the Atom deducted WHO the killer was was too fast and seemed rushed.

I was cool about the art... people slam Liefeld for his lack of anatomy... well, Rags also seems to lack the basics. Some of the panels were HORRIBLE and some weren't bad...

Loved issues 1-5, 6 was OK and 7 was the let down of the year for me.

[Calamas]

I found it a let down too... I was SO into it from the beginning... but the plot holes were HUGE, and red herrings that SHOULD have been dealt with or at least acknowledged (witha See Batman #??? for the full story) were left up in the air... I know they were suppose to be plot threads for other series'... but like any good story they SHOULD have been dealt with.
Your mention of red herrings reminds me of something John Dickson Carr wrote in his essay, “The Grandest Game in the World”:

“It’s all very well to have your eight suspects parading in their endless ring-around-the-rosebush outside the library. That’s fine. But give some sensible reason why they were there. If you must shower the room with bus tickets, provide a reason for that too. In other words, construct your story.”

Sums it up for me. Red herrings are fine as long as you eventually explain their presence. Too much was left unexplained in Identity Crisis #7.

[blue13]

are you kidding me?

NO, you're not the only person who enjoyed IC.

of course not -- look at the phenomenal sales.

[Lurch]

As stated by many others, you're far from the only one who enjoyed it. However, I felt let down by the ending. They should have had an all encompassing story, but instead left too many great possible threads hanging. I understand that some of those will be picked up by other writers who will run with them, but many will undoubtedly be left...hanging.

I enjoyed it, but I don't like the feeling that I was manipulated by the PTB.

[The Shadow]

of course not -- look at the phenomenal sales.
Sales don't always equal enjoyment!

Perhaps people were duped by the hype machine and figured they should finish the story

[The Shadow]

Your mention of red herrings reminds me something John Dickson Carr wrote in his essay, “The Grandest Game in the World”:

“It’s all very well to have your eight suspects parading in their endless ring-around-the-rosebush outside the library. That’s fine. But give some sensible reason why they were there. If you must shower the room with bus tickets, provide a reason for that too. In other words, construct your story.”

Sums it up for me. Red herrings are fine as long as you eventually explain their presence. Too much was left unexplained in Identity Crisis #7.
Yeah... my feelings too... which is odd considering Meltzer is a novelist by trade...

[tymac]

I was really into it through issue 5. At the end of six, i didn't like the options that were left, and 7 left me cold. I hate to have spent 28.00 on "eh?", which was my assessment after 7.

I didn't mind thar Jean was the killer, but the motive was terrible. Actually, I'd have preferred the emergence of a mega-villain from the B-listers, but after 6 I was pretty sure that wasn't happening.

[Phoney Bone]

As evidenced by the responses, no, hito, you are not the only one who enjoyed it.

Add me to the list.

Great art. Great dialouge. Ramifications that will be felt in the DCU's future.

"Everything goes back to normal...."?

I don't think so!!!

[The Shadow]

Great art.
VERY debatable...

[/QUOTE]Ramifications that will be felt in the DCU's future.

"Everything goes back to normal...."?

I don't think so!!! [/QUOTE]
Other than the Bat books with Tim's father dying and the mind wipe what ramifications?

No one on the current JLA was involved... Green Arrow will likely have his membership revoked (who cares?)... we have a NEW C grade villain in Boomerang Jr. (again, who cares?)... Jean knows Batman's identity (or Tim's anyway), but she's a nut job in a psycho ward. VERY credible... if you're a psycho!... Firestorm is now officially dead, so all 4 fans of the original can be upset... we now OFFICIALLY know the villains have a hang out (wow... I'm blown away!)

Seriously... what won't be forgotten in a month or 2 OTHER THAN TIM'S DAD and MAYBE the mindwipe?

[Blueferret]

I hadn't even thought about Hal, but why the hell couldn't he answer Ollie's question as to who did it when they were talking? Who was he protecting?? That scene makes no sense looking back upon it. Also, I've posted this on other threads, Meltzer said that this story evolved from him being asked to kill a specific character. Who was that? Firestorm? I hope not; he got whacked in 3 panels.

[revolver86]

Add me to the list of people that loved this. Until issue 7, I was in the "knid of likeing it" section, but the reveal at the end totally changed the feel of the story and made it better, as evidenced by the fact that I re-read the whole thing tonight and got a totally different vibe than before. This book was all about showing that the DC heros are essentially flawed. That one loose screw can bring their whole system down and have them chasing their tails, and revealing major secrets to eachother, all because someone deep inside their group was mentally sick and f**ked up things real bad. It also showed that the villains are finally getting together and are going to turn themselves into a real threat in the near future. This book was also cool because there are little things that are very obviously leading into this Countdown in March. A small, character based tale is the first chapter in what might be the biggest DC story ever told. That's what I look at IC as, "Chapter 1" of Crisis 2!!!

[KJ_81]

I really enjoyed IDC, other than the whole flame-thrower thing. I thought most girls carried a spare lipstick, not a spare flamethrower.

[Mr. Biggstuff]

I liked it alot. But the falme thower but then again shes nuts so maybe in her mind she didnt set out to kill her. And I love Rags art I want him on Green Arrow.

[HomerJay]

Mods: Go ahead and integrate this into one of the other IC threads if it was inappropriate for me to start a new one.

Now that IDENTITY CRISIS has wrapped up, what is your verdict? Good, bad, ugly?

Personally, I actually REALLY liked it. The reason I really liked Identity Crisis was because we saw so little of the big 3 (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman). With the exception of one issue, we really only saw Batman & Superman through the eyes of the "Tier 2" heroes. It was interesting to see how much respect, reverence, fear, and even resentment the other heroes hold for them.

It actually read more like a Marvel story written by Bendis (heavy on mood, characterization, dialogue). IMO, this story will (if it hasn't already) get more Marvel readers reading DC again.
I consider myself a Marvel guy (with the exception of Batman and to a lesser extent, Superman) but I decided to check out IDENTITY CRISIS. Now I'm buying Green Lantern, Flash, Superman, etc. again.

THOUGHTS?

[BlackKnight]

Yeah... my feelings too... which is odd considering Meltzer is a novelist by trade...

Just on a side not on this, this goes for all comics. :)

[Viking Bastard]

I voted Good.

[thehod]

Ditto.

Excellent for six issues, and then a slight anti-climatic feeling to the final issue, but with a second reading (the whole thing I mean, not just issue 7) it read a whole lot better and far more enjoyable.

[tymac]

I voted OK. Some parts of the story I founds to be very entertaining, others were kind of bleh. For me, the story lost it's momentum after 5.

I did get a lot of fun out of the endless whodunit? debates. On the other hand, I'll be content never to hear the word mindwipe again.

[Arvandor]

There's already been a poll, but what the hell, let's have another.

Once again, I voted that I liked it. The final issue WAS a bit of a letdown, and there were far too many meaningless scenes, but overrall, as an exploration of the consequences of the secret identity, I think it works.

[Karl J. Barnes]

It was okay, eventhough some of the subject matter was a bit intense. It was the payoff that lowered this mini-series in my eyes. Even when it seemed to point to Jean, I was hoping that there was another explaination.

[heretic]

Some of the worst plotting and characterization I have seen, and the whole would-be avant garde attitude towards the Silver Age left a horrid taste in my mouth.

And this from a Marvel Fan/X-Zombie.

HTG

[Sandy Hausler]

I thought that only Ray could grow. If anybody else does it, he or she explodes. Has that changed? (It would sure put a kaboosh on the JL solution.)

Sandy Hausler

[west3man]

I definitely feel like I wasted that money and am VERY tempted to throw my issues away, instead of even trying to sell them. I couldn't even consider donation to community centers as an option, considering the content.

I can't judge that as anything, but "Bad."

Sandy: Good point.

[C.O. Jones]

I voted good---if there was a vote between good and OK I'da gone there, like a C- story with B+ tendencies. I loved the buzz we got every month when a new issue came out and all of the discussions that stemmed from it. This was a major event that kinda imploded on itself storywise, but the overall concept was great. I'm glad I got introduced to those 3 cool Flash tie-in stories in that I might have found another worthwhile title to buy.

[Bat-Mite]

Well, I voted bad because, as a murder mystery, it is downright retarded for reasons already explained elsewhere.

[TJ Shoun]

I loved it.

It was the book I most anticipated for the past 7 months.

Rags art was superb and the Meltzer's mystery was absolutely enthralling.

The mature subject matter and grim mood didn't bother me one bit. It might have, if children still read superhero comics -- but they don't.

I'd love to see more stuff like IC from DC in the future.

[HomerJay]

The mature subject matter and grim mood didn't bother me one bit. It might have, if children still read superhero comics -- but they don't.



Sad but true. Most kids between the ages of 6 and 13 don't even read comics anymore.
I offered to buy my 6 yr-old nephew subscriptions to any 2 Marvel Age comics he wanted, but he couldn't have cared less. He wants nothing to do with anything unless YuGiOh is involved.

[monkeywarplane]

I was teetering between excellent and good... the only reason I would have voted "good" was the huge buildup that ended in a mere squeak... and #4 was kinda boring relative to the issues that lead up to it... this was the most excited about comics that I have been in a while and that says a lot especially from a Marvel guy.

I ended up voting "excellent"

Stuart

[Deathstroke]

It was good.

[Gladiator X]

Crap on a crap cracker woulda left a better taste in my mouth then this did.

[Steeven]

I voted excellent.

I loved the art, and the story kept me wanting more.

I can understand how the story and characterization could put people off, but I'm pretty new to the DC world other than watching the Superfriends as a kid and reading Giffen's JLI, so being new to these characters, other than the aforementioned bits, it was all, well . . . new, to me.

[Beatnikman]

The thing that's been nagging at me for the last week is the problem with the payoff. Not that Jean's the killer ... I haven't been reading comics long enough to know her or have any kind of connection to her.

But what's bugging me is that the major retcon stuff, the rape of Sue Dibney and the subsequent mind wiping, had nothing to do with the murder in this story and the mystery that followed. That whole part of the story was a red herring. An emotionally charged one (to really get your attention) for sure, but still seemed to be in there just to divert our attention from the real motives. I was willing to go along for the ride on those aspects of the story, in hopes there would be some significant consequences from them. But there wasn't. And it makes me wish they had chosen some other way to distract us from Jean's fairly ridiculous motive (since, it seems like Ray would have come back if she'd just invited him over for dinner).

And Morales' art was pretty hit-and-miss for me. Some panels were great, some were pretty bad, and most were fine. His storytelling and pacing, though, were pretty darn good.

So, I already voted "good," but after typing all that out, I think I would change it to "OK."

[CjP]

I hadn't even thought about Hal, but why the hell couldn't he answer Ollie's question as to who did it when they were talking? Who was he protecting?? That scene makes no sense looking back upon it. Also, I've posted this on other threads, Meltzer said that this story evolved from him being asked to kill a specific character. Who was that? Firestorm? I hope not; he got whacked in 3 panels.
Waaay OT, but...

looking at your avatar, anyone notice that Captain Cold is basically Marvel's The Mole with a parka? :rolleyes:

[Phoney Bone]

At least Keith Giffen liked it.

Finally, all the knee-jerk speculation that he left DC because of what happened to Sue turned out to be typical 'net rumor hogwash.

See the article on the homepage.

I love it! :D

[sehthan]

So, anybody else get the impression Wally wants to tell Bats?

[powerforward]

1) why didn't sue leave any evidence behind when she grew to normal size?
2) who is capt. boomerang's jr. mother?
3) did bats know he was mind-wiped?
4) how did bats know it was jean and not ray?
5) how did jean know everybodys secret id? (tim's?)
5) how did the calculator see everything that was going on( ollie and wally, bats, etc? and if he did couldn't he find out their id's?
i still have a ton of questions, and i wish something was done with phobia and moon, it looked like something was being set up big for them, but nothing.

[hangmanjury]

How the hell did everyone know everyone's identity?

That's what I wanna know.

[The Shadow]

Well, I voted bad because, as a murder mystery, it is downright retarded for reasons already explained elsewhere.
Me too for the same reason

[pauwoo]

I loved it, best thing i have read from DC in a long time.

[TheDrizzt]

Gratuitous violence and plot holes big enough to pilot a spaceship through. What's not to love?

I'm thinking "Brad Meltzer" is actually a psuedonym for "Ron Marz." Or vice versa. ;)

[WolverineEatsBabies]

I've got one.
Where was Martian Manhunter during all this?
Couldnt he have erased peoples memories better than Zatanna?

[T Rath]

I went ok. Would have voted excellent if no. 7 hadn't been such a let down. It was a mystery and mysteries depend heavily on the ending. With as weak an ending as IC had, I was tempted to vote bad, but opted for middle ground.