How do you feel about sex in "regular" comic books?

[west3man]

I've been thinking about this for a while, now. Sometimes comics seem over-sexualized. A lil extra detail in areas that are typically less-than-fully-rendered, super-heroes using their powers to sexually satisfy themselves or other, and other such things often skirt the line between the cool and the uncool.

I know the topic has been discussed here before, but I'd been under the impression that that explicit sex or sexuality was something relatively new to comics. Oh no.

While reading the four volumes of Byrne Fantastic Four tpbs I've seen nipples-prints, implied sex, and later clear references to that sex having lead to conception.

Now, I'm not saying this is a sign of the apocalypse or anything. I just wondered where the line be drawn. I'm not sure, but clearly this didn't start with Ed Benes or anyone else from the latest generation of comic creators as has been implied, at times.

Thoughts? Where do YOU think the line should be drawn (no pun-intended)?

[Gaz]

I've been thinking about this for a while, now. Sometimes comics seem over-sexualized. A lil extra detail in areas that are typically less-than-fully-rendered, super-heroes using their powers to sexually satisfy themselves or other, and other such things often skirt the line between the cool and the uncool.

I know the topic has been discussed here before, but I'd been under the impression that that explicit sex or sexuality was something relatively new to comics. Oh no.

While reading the four volumes of Byrne Fantastic Four tpbs I've seen nipples-prints, implied sex, and later clear references to that sex having lead to conception.

Now, I'm not saying this is a sign of the apocalypse or anything. I just wondered where the line be drawn. I'm not sure, but clearly this didn't start with Ed Benes or anyone else from the latest generation of comic creators as has been implied, at times.

Thoughts? Where do YOU think the line should be drawn (no pun-intended)?

Sliding scale, depending on the title's intended audience and how essential it is to the plot. For instance, I don't expect anything but the odd oblique reference to Reed and Sue sharing a bed in Marvel Adventures FF, but if you wanna show Johnny and Crystal post-coitus in MK4 because them sleeping together is part of Johnny's character arc in this story, then cool, in between can be a double entendre every now and then between say, Sue and Jen about Namor. Actual frontal nudity should be reserved for MAX, Vertigo, Icon and the VERY occasional Wildstorm title, and only then if it's a necessary part of the story.

PS ( By "frontal nudity" I mean any exposure that would be considered unacceptable in other visual media aimed at the same audience, so guys without shirts is cool, girls without them are less so.... in this context ;) )

[JeffreyWKramer]

While reading the four volumes of Byrne Fantastic Four tpbs I've seen nipples-prints, implied sex, and later clear references to that sex having lead to conception.[/b]
I think the level of sexuality present in Byrne's FF and in other mainstream comics of that time (UNCANNY X-MEN, NEW TEEN TITANS, etc.) is about as far as things should go for books aimed at an all-ages audience. In those books, the sexual content was mild, fairly subtle and more hinted at than displayed, and characters were drawn in a sensual and sexy manner, but not overly sexualized. The level of simmer was approximately the same as on an episode of THREE'S COMPANY, but without the gay jokes.

In contrast, things have gone a bit overboard in some mainstream comics in the recent past - the Austen and Johns runs on AVENGERS and Austen's UNCANNY come to mind. Those depictions went a bit further than fits within the bounds of good taste for an all-ages book, but weren't generally entirely over the top. They were often quite juvenile - especially in Austen's stuff - but the sexualized violence (as with Whirlwind murdering a hooker dressed/made up to look like the Wasp) was much more disturbing than the overtly sexual content. As to sexual drawings, I don't see that has changed much in mainstream books over the past twenty years or so - certainly, I don't see a lot of drawing more sexual than what Perez did on TITANS or what Hughes did on JUSTICE LEAGUE or LEGIONNAIRES. If anything, there's probably less overt cheesecake and protruding nipplage, such that Benes stands out a bit more now than he would have a few years earlier.

[Slam_Bradley]

I'm dead set against having sex in regular comic books. It's very hard on the comics and there is a large chance of paper cuts in areas where they aren't welcome.





You mean in the comic story? Never mind.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

I'm dead set against having sex in regular comic books. It's very hard on the comics and there is a large chance of paper cuts in areas where they aren't welcome.





You mean in the comic story? Never mind.

Damnit, Slam! You beat me to it!

[Slam_Bradley]

Damnit, Slam! You beat me to it!


I'm all about getting the easy joke.

[Michael P]

I think I can recall the exact moment the line shifted from the Byrne-era stuff Jeff mentions (and I agree, that's as far as it should go; hell, one of the best sexual scenes in comics is the Uncanny X-Men bit with Cyclops and Phoenix on the mesa, and that ends with Jean taking off Scott's glasses) to where it is today. It was during the Michelinie/Bagley run on ASM (although I'm pretty sure this story was part of a fill-in written by al Milgrom). Peter comes home from a hard day's work and finds MJ on the couch. They hug and he delivers exposition, and then MJ mentions something about having to make dinner. Peter kisses her, and she says "Then again, there's always take-out." Cut to a scene of Nova or somebody fighting the Secret Empire.

A little later on, Moon Knight calls Spider-Man through his Avengers membership card. (I want one of those things.) In the apartment, Peter picks it up and they talk about meeting to kick the bad guys' asses. When Peter signs off, we see that he's lying in bed with MJ. The following dialogue exhange occurs:

MJ: "More Spidey action so soon?"
Peter: "You weren't complaining about the Spidey action you just..."
MJ: "One more word and you'll be sleeping on the couch for a month."
Peter: "Yes, dear."
Moon Knight (thinking): "I should make a note to tell Spider-Man to turn off his communicator before engaging in personal conversations."

[Michael P]

sexualized violence (as with Whirlwind murdering a hooker dressed/made up to look like the Wasp) was much more disturbing than the overtly sexual content.
I would point out that, at least in the case of the Avengers book, that was the point.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I would point out that, at least in the case of the Avengers book, that was the point.
But why did the point need to be made in that book? How was that appropriate for either an all-ages Avengers book, or to that character who - while always obsessed with Jan - hadn't previously demonstrated any tendency toward sexual murder or rape. He also attempted to rape Jan later in the issue.

[Sir Tim Drake]

I think the moment the paradigm shifted was when Dick and Kory were shown in bed together, in the first issue of the Baxter-format New Teen Titans.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I think the moment the paradigm shifted was when Dick and Kory were shown in bed together, in the first issue of the Baxter-format New Teen Titans.

Characters had previously been shown together in LEGION OF SUPERHEROES, notably Star Boy and Dream Girl, and I think some instances of Karate Kid and Princess Projectra as well. Those probably weren't as widely read - and certainly not as commented-upon - as the TITANS scenes you mention, though.

[Tommy]

If you want to read too much sex in the olden days re-read the essential X-men. There were hundreds of straight up references to S&M in them.

But in the first 4 tpb I noticed the artist kept showing Sue in overly slutty overly sexual positions. That should be right out considering that her personality is not that of Emma Frost.

[Michael P]

But why did the point need to be made in that book? How was that appropriate for either an all-ages Avengers book, or to that character who - while always obsessed with Jan - hadn't previously demonstrated any tendency toward sexual murder or rape. He also attempted to rape Jan later in the issue.
I'm not defending or accusing the scene, just stating that it had a story purpose. It's been what, a year and a half? and I'm still not sure how I feel about it in terms of appropriateness.

[JerrBear81]

Depends on the age group aimed at.