Do you think networks intentionaly kill some shows?

[GremlinClr]

After reading ABC's fall lineup and seeing they moved Alias to Thursday, I have to say yes.

"Hey we've got a moderate hit here! Ratings really turned around since we paired Alias with a hugely popular lead-in like Lost. So lets stab that puppy in the heart and move it to Thursdays to compete with two huge hits like Survivor and The O.C.!"

Nothing good will come of this for Alias. If they do this it's almost guarenteed to be it's last season. So why blatantly screw a show over like this?

[Phil Clark]

Complete and Utter stupidity? :confused:

[blackdragon6]

people have debated this before but the only ones who really know the reason is the network executives themselves.

[Bright-Raven]

Obviously, Jennifer Garner is not committed to the Alias series anymore. She's been making more films, just got pregnant... so unless you're going to replace Sydney with a new Alias spy role character to continue the series (Which defeats the purpose as the series is about Sydney, isn't it?), then it's time to shuffle the show out of rotation but still earn what moneys you can from it.

Wish you people would learn corporate thinking before you bitched. These decisions are NOT that difficult to figure out the logic of.

[GremlinClr]

Obviously, Jennifer Garner is not committed to the Alias series anymore. She's been making more films, just got pregnant... so unless you're going to replace Sydney with a new Alias spy role character to continue the series (Which defeats the purpose as the series is about Sydney, isn't it?), then it's time to shuffle the show out of rotation but still earn what moneys you can from it.

Wish you people would learn corporate thinking before you bitched. These decisions are NOT that difficult to figure out the logic of.

Yea and I'm sure you're on the "inside" and this is all fact and not baseless speculation right? Right? Oh wait…

[Shellhead]

Shows don't get cancelled by accident... oops, let's just cancel Friends before the start of the third season... no.

Jennifer Garner's pregnancy is problematic for Alias, because the show is built around her being a violent secret agent. No pregnant woman is going to take on dangerous missions like the ones we see every week on Alias, so the Sydney character has to either take a leave of absence, or else some kind of desk job in the context of the show.

Fans will either complain about her being gone or about somebody else stealing the limelight or about the lack of action. It's a no-win situation for the network, so they are moving the show to a different night so they can begin the process of ending it without breaching their contract with Garner.

[titanfan]

I thought it was pretty much understood that this 5th season (if there was one) was the last season of Alias anyway.

ABC probably figures that everything they put in that time slot gets trounced--so why not put something there with a strong loyal fan base to begin with and just let it sit there to ride out it's last season. It's not a show they don't really have to invest in anymore.

[hugh45]

IMHO,sometimes it's netwerk pride,that our best show/s is better than
your or more strategic in knocking the top show of the other netwerk out
thus owing that day/time slot and I guess getting more advertise money
for their show/s.

Then again,I didn't understand the reasoning behind putting only two
black shows against each other. :evilangry

[Spastic Minnow]

I think there are times shows are purposefully and maliciously killed. Often it has to do with a new station head coming in and wanting to put their own brand on the network. Sometimes it's disagreements with a creator. Fox never gave Futurama a good chance, largely in part because Groenig and Co. wouldn't do absolutely everything was asked of them. I think Wonderfalls was another Fox kill, it was a show okayed and championed by a former station head, when the new guy came in the old guy's shows were downplayed and eventually tossed. Therefore the new guy can say "Look- the old guy's show was a failure and my show that premeired after American Idol is doing great!"

I'll accept the reasoning shown here for Alias' Thursday placement though. The show is getting tired anyways. It's hard to care about the characters anymore and really, JUST GET OVER RIMBAULDI!

[cosmicspidey]

"Hey we've got a moderate hit here! Ratings really turned around since we paired Alias with a hugely popular lead-in like Lost. So lets stab that puppy in the heart and move it to Thursdays to compete with two huge hits like Survivor and The O.C.!"

ABC consistently places 3rd in the ratings with whatever it is they have in that timeslot now. With Survivor on CBS and Joey/Will & Grace on NBC, there's really not anywhere to go for ABC. And The OC has gone way down hill, as it only places 4th, barely above UPN's WWE Smackdown. Alias is in no danger, unless ABC actually expects it to beat out Survivor and the NBC line-up when nothing else has been able to make a dent in it.

[Grant]

I think they do sometimes but not very often. I'm not sure if that's what they are doing with Alias. I agree with the theory that they want to move a show with loyal viewers to Thursdays where the competition is tighter versus having a new show getting killed on arrival by The OC.

They could have easily not renew Alias after this season.

[Greg Hatcher]

Wish you people would learn corporate thinking before you bitched. These decisions are NOT that difficult to figure out the logic of.

Yea and I'm sure you're on the "inside" and this is all fact and not baseless speculation right? Right? Oh wait…

Gentlemen, these are the kinds of posts that get reported to me, and it should be clear by now to anyone who spends time on this board how much I really hate getting reported posts, especially for arguments like this. Bear in mind that it matters not at all to me which one of you might be right. I just want politeness. If you can't discuss it without being snotty, then you shouldn't discuss it at all.

That's all. Carry on.

[NormanB]

The network is trying to establish a foothold on Thursday nights.

Not rocket science here, people.

[shades of eternity]

the story around firefly says yes

Angel's cancelation is another.

[KenK]

the story around firefly says yes

Angel's cancelation is another.

What was the justification for Angel's cancellation again?

[fly on the wall]

After reading ABC's fall lineup and seeing they moved Alias to Thursday, I have to say yes.

"Hey we've got a moderate hit here! Ratings really turned around since we paired Alias with a hugely popular lead-in like Lost. So lets stab that puppy in the heart and move it to Thursdays to compete with two huge hits like Survivor and The O.C.!"

Nothing good will come of this for Alias. If they do this it's almost guarenteed to be it's last season. So why blatantly screw a show over like this?

Jennifer Garner should go up to the Execs responsible for doing this and say, "I'ma gonna kick your ass!".

[Shellhead]

Jennifer Garner should go up to the Execs responsible for doing this and say, "I'ma gonna kick your ass!".

I think Ben Affleck is more responsible than the execs for this situation.

[shades of eternity]

What was the justification for Angel's cancellation again?

From what I heard, they were trying to compete with more "main stream TV"

They brought in 2 half hour comedy show, that tanked after the first season.

Dumber then toast.

[Deathstroke]

Yes I think they do try to intentionally kill shows at times.

[Forefinger]

I think that Angel is the perfect example of this question.

Also, way back when, they killed the live action 90's Flash TV series by bouncing it around to different nights and time slots. I read somewhere later that they admitted to intentionally killing the show because of the high price tag, it was 1 million an episode for all the FX.

[Valmore]

Generally, you know a show is on the "Hot Seat" if it gets moved to Prime Time on Friday Nights - that's the Kiss of Death slot for just about anything that isn't News-Magazine related. You're either there because you're getting axed soon, or the station doesn't have anything else to fill the slot with.

"Alias" probably got moved for many of the reasons listed - with Garner pregnant, it's going to be hard for her to run around in those skin-tight, belly-baring outfits the show is known for putting her in, so unless they can think of a REALLY good story, she's going to have to be written out or cast in a different role, both of which would probably hurt ratings. So, why not just move the show where it'll probably get the ratings it would under those situations to a night where it'll probably do about the same? Thursday Prime Time is already OWNED by CBS with "Survivor" "CSI" and "Without a Trace." So, in comparison, ratings for "Alias" won't look as bad on Thursday compared to that competition rather than keeping it against the Sunday shows (Like "Law & Order: CI" or whatever it was going against) and its ratings sag down that way.

Then, when the pregnancy is over, and if "Alias" is still around, they can move it back.

[Kevinroc]

Yes. The E! True Hollywood Story on Mary Tyler Moore discussed how an executive wanted to bury the MTM show by giving it a bad time slot. He was let go and the executive that replaced him put the show on in a good slot.

[Deathstroke]

Generally, you know a show is on the "Hot Seat" if it gets moved to Prime Time on Friday Nights - that's the Kiss of Death slot for just about anything that isn't News-Magazine related. You're either there because you're getting axed soon, or the station doesn't have anything else to fill the slot with.

"Alias" probably got moved for many of the reasons listed - with Garner pregnant, it's going to be hard for her to run around in those skin-tight, belly-baring outfits the show is known for putting her in, so unless they can think of a REALLY good story, she's going to have to be written out or cast in a different role, both of which would probably hurt ratings. So, why not just move the show where it'll probably get the ratings it would under those situations to a night where it'll probably do about the same? Thursday Prime Time is already OWNED by CBS with "Survivor" "CSI" and "Without a Trace." So, in comparison, ratings for "Alias" won't look as bad on Thursday compared to that competition rather than keeping it against the Sunday shows (Like "Law & Order: CI" or whatever it was going against) and its ratings sag down that way.

Then, when the pregnancy is over, and if "Alias" is still around, they can move it back.

According an article I read online, they plan to work the pregnancy into the storyline.

[Ontir]

While CBS insisted it had nothing to do with the decision, "the Flash" was cancelled like two days after John Wesley Shipp came out publicly. Prior to that, they had said, yes, it's expensive, and the ratings aren't great, but it's a quality show, and we're behind it all the way. Then, a few day's later, it's dead, Jim.

[Saint Nightwalker]

Generally, you know a show is on the "Hot Seat" if it gets moved to Prime Time on Friday Nights - that's the Kiss of Death slot for just about anything that isn't News-Magazine related. You're either there because you're getting axed soon, or the station doesn't have anything else to fill the slot with.


Right. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Then please explain how Miami Vice got to be the #1 show in the country 3 years running when it was placed in the Friday night timeslot.

It sure as hell wasn't news-magazine related.

[satchmo the dragon]

Gentlemen, these are the kinds of posts that get reported to me, and it should be clear by now to anyone who spends time on this board how much I really hate getting reported posts, especially for arguments like this. Bear in mind that it matters not at all to me which one of you might be right. I just want politeness. If you can't discuss it without being snotty, then you shouldn't discuss it at all.

That's all. Carry on.
People reported those posts? That's sad. You should have warned whoever reported them to calm down or risk being banned.

[cosmicspidey]

Right. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Then please explain how Miami Vice got to be the #1 show in the country 3 years running when it was placed in the Friday night timeslot.

It sure as hell wasn't news-magazine related.

It was also 20 years ago. Things change.

[satchmo the dragon]

While CBS insisted it had nothing to do with the decision, "the Flash" was cancelled like two days after John Wesley Shipp came out publicly. Prior to that, they had said, yes, it's expensive, and the ratings aren't great, but it's a quality show, and we're behind it all the way. Then, a few day's later, it's dead, Jim.
I was a little kid and I loved that show. I remember I cried when it was gone.

[Valmore]

It was also 20 years ago. Things change.

Basically, what this person said. This ain't 1985.

Friday Night hasn't been a hot spot for television ratings for years now. With the advent of cheap DVDs - purchased or renting - a lot of people who actually choose to stay in on a Friday night are renting movies on DVD and watching those instead of television. Or, with TiVo and other mass-storage recorders, people catch up on their shows they didn't watch during the week.

And Friday night is one of the biggest nights to "go out and do something." Dates are usually set for Friday night, since usually people don't have work the next day, so they can stay out later. Teenagers are usually out somewhere. Adults are hitting clubs, etc.

Why did Joan of Arcadia get the axe? It wasn't due to bad reviews - as far as one can tell, it got pretty good reviews critically. It was on in a terrible time slot - Friday Prime Time. It drew poor ratings compared to what production of the show costs. Thus, it got axed.

ABC attempted to bring back the bigger rating days of "TGIF" a few years ago. The attempt failed miserably.

Friday Night just isn't a hot spot for ratings.

[JerrBear81]

No pregnant woman is going to take on dangerous missions like the ones we see every week on Alias

Xena would....MWUHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!

[JerrBear81]

I'm not so sure about the ratings for Megas XLR, but it may be facing cancellation.

It started off at 9:30 (PST) on saturdays on Cartoon Network's Toonami. Some of their commercials were even saying it was "one of their biggest hits". For two seasons it was in that timeslot.

Then CN released their list of shows being renewed and Megas wasn't on it. Then they moved Megas reruns to 5PM every weekday on Miguzi, competing with Teen Titans and Static Shock on the same channel (and the Kid's WB shows too). The explanation is if Megas does well we "might" see more episodes this fall.

Three weeks later it's replaced with yet more Teen Titans reruns, and put at 5pm on weekends on Miguzi. I for one hope it doesn't get cancelled as it's one of the few shows I bother to watch.

[Dennis K]

Why would a network have to intentionally kill a show? They have the power to cancel it.

[Saint Nightwalker]

Basically, what this person said. This ain't 1985.

Friday Night hasn't been a hot spot for television ratings for years now. With the advent of cheap DVDs - purchased or renting - a lot of people who actually choose to stay in on a Friday night are renting movies on DVD and watching those instead of television. Or, with TiVo and other mass-storage recorders, people catch up on their shows they didn't watch during the week.

And Friday night is one of the biggest nights to "go out and do something." Dates are usually set for Friday night, since usually people don't have work the next day, so they can stay out later. Teenagers are usually out somewhere. Adults are hitting clubs, etc.


So 20 years ago, there weren't any VCR's?
There weren't any video rental stores 20 years ago?
People didn't go out on dates on Friday nights 20 years ago?
Adults didn't go out to clubs 20 years ago?

Please. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Someone's willfully ignorant and it ain't me.

[Valmore]

So 20 years ago, there weren't any VCR's?
There weren't any video rental stores 20 years ago?
People didn't go out on dates on Friday nights 20 years ago?
Adults didn't go out to clubs 20 years ago?

Please. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Someone's willfully ignorant and it ain't me.

But you are willfully moronic, considering you're trying to compare ratings situations from 20 years ago. There ain't no "Miami Vice"

Look at the Top 20 rated shows for the season - not a single one is from Friday Prime Time. The only other day NOT represented in the Top 20 is Saturday. The top rated show last week on Friday? Dateline NBC with a 6.7 ratinge. It beat out the Daytime Emmys and a Muppet Special. The week before? An Elvis Special with a 7.8 rating. Week before that? A special night of a CSI rerun that only drew a 6.7 rating. Numb3rs did slightly better at 10 p.m.

Fridays are not a day for ratings - the proof is right there. Otherwise, there'd be more series on there.

[JerrBear81]

So 20 years ago, there weren't any VCR's?
There weren't any video rental stores 20 years ago?
People didn't go out on dates on Friday nights 20 years ago?
Adults didn't go out to clubs 20 years ago?

Please. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Someone's willfully ignorant and it ain't me.

Well, VCR's weren't too reliable 20 years ago (Partly explained below).

Those other questions hold well though. Personally, though, I think there are more factors going on. For instance, people are more likely to browse the Internet at leisure on Friday Nights instead of watching TV. Also, other stations than ABC tend to have "better" shows (WB for instance).

Also, 20 years ago perhaps people were less likely to rent movies. But that's just speculation. The earliest I can remember my parents renting movies was when I was 8. Before then they bought all of the movies cause the VCR's ate video tapes. And I remember quite a bit of our movies being eaten occassionally.

[Gary DJ]

Why would a network have to intentionally kill a show? They have the power to cancel it.
Technically, I think shows are rarely cancelled, rather, their contracts aren't renewed. But it's still a good question. I've read various articles, in the pre-Internet era, suggesting that series have been cancelled for reasons unrelated to low ratings. The Smothers Brothers were fired from their variety show and it was taken off the air prematurely because they failed to deliver a network-approved tape of their show by a particular deadline. The Smothers later successfully sued CBS, and produced a signed and time-dated receipt showing the tape had been delivered on time. I think the story is related in the book CBS: Reflections in a Bloodshot Eye.

When CBS cancelled Lou Grant several pundits, including Harlan Ellison (a friend of Ed Asner), claimed it was because of Asner's outspoken views on the Reagan administration.

Sometimes networks will try to buy out the contract connected to a show that fizzled. Steven Spielberg had a two-year contract with NBC for Amazing Stories. When the show failed to pull in the ratings needed to justify the high licensing fee, NBC tried to buy out the contract. But Spielberg said no and NBC was obliged to let the show run the full two seasons.

At least that's what I read.