Religion of the X-Men [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

Archer

05-15-2005, 06:02 PM

Emerald Ghost

05-15-2005, 06:21 PM

Nightcrawler is obviously Roman Catholic. Rahne is Presbyterian (?). Magma and Sunspot, are they Catholic too? Danielle Moonstar follows some kind of traditional Native American beliefs. Dust is Muslim. Kitty is Jewish, Magneto was Jewish but is now probably agnostic. I vaguely remember reading that Colossus is Russian Orthodox, but I'm not sure. Banshee and Siryn are probably Catholic.

Cool. I wonder why so many Catholics? I'm happy they have a Muslim now. Hopefully they will explore that. :)

I think there are some things we can look for in the ones who haven't said anything about their religion.

Have they expressed a belief there is a god?
Have they worn anything like a cross, etc?
Do they eat meat?

All are indicitive. :)

Sean Whitmore

05-15-2005, 06:22 PM

Emerald Ghost

05-15-2005, 06:31 PM

A good rule of thumb comes from the Infinity Crusade, where the "best" of the MU's religious heroes were brainwashed. A short list reveals:

Jamie Madrox
Jean Grey
Puck
Archangel
Shaman
Talisman
Quicksilver
Scarlet Witch
Wolfsbane
Sasquatch
Storm

...are all religious to a pretty great extent.

Beast also says something to the effect of "Hey, I believe there's a God, why wasn't I taken?" The reason was he didn't believe enough, or something.

SEAN

Looking over that list...weren't Quick and Scarlet raised by gypsys or something? What religion are gypsys? Sorry, I am not very cultural minded.
I wish I could afford to get the Infinity saga it sounds so good.

Archer

05-15-2005, 06:32 PM

Cool. I wonder why so many Catholics?

Catholic angst? It might just be coincidence, in that several countries that seem like exotic origin places to US readers are overwhelmingly Catholic - Banshee for example is Irish, so even if he has never believed in the religion he was almost certainly raised as a Catholic.

I'm happy they have a Muslim now. Hopefully they will explore that. :)

Over in New X-Men/New Mutants, it's been explored a bit - Dust is one of the main supporting characters.

I think there are some things we can look for in the ones who haven't said anything about their religion.

Have they expressed a belief there is a god?
Have they worn anything like a cross, etc?
Do they eat meat?

All are indicitive. :)

They're indicative, but far too vague, IMO, to make even a good guess. Unless someone says "Hey, hello, this is my religion" pretty much every sign is ambiguous.

Emerald Ghost

05-15-2005, 06:34 PM

Catholic angst? It might just be coincidence, in that several countries that seem like exotic origin places to US readers are overwhelmingly Catholic - Banshee for example is Irish, so even if he has never believed in the religion he was almost certainly raised as a Catholic.

Over in New X-Men/New Mutants, it's been explored a bit - Dust is one of the main supporting characters.

They're indicative, but far too vague, IMO, to make even a good guess. Unless someone says "Hey, hello, this is my religion" pretty much every sign is ambiguous.

I know, but you could narrow it down. If the character says they believe in a god, and are wearing a cross...

Or if they didn't eat meat, and mentioned reincarnation, that could be indicitive of what the writer was trying to portray with the character.

Archer

05-15-2005, 06:34 PM

Beast also says something to the effect of "Hey, I believe there's a God, why wasn't I taken?" The reason was he didn't believe enough, or something.

I haven't read it, but belief that there's a god is *not* the same thing as being religious. It's possible to believe there's a god (or gods) and not be religious, and it's possible to be religious and not believe in a god . . . and even if that list *is* of the most religious people, it doesn't imply what religion they are.

Archer

05-15-2005, 06:38 PM

I know, but you could narrow it down. If the character says they believe in a god, and are wearing a cross...

Then that would imply they are probably some kind of Christian - but that's a very wide group of beliefs. Also, plenty of people wear crosses for sentimental value (eg a present from a relative), and plenty of people believe in a god without being specific enough, or interested enough in ritual, for it to be called a religion.

Or if they didn't eat meat, and mentioned reincarnation, that could be indicitive of what the writer was trying to portray with the character.

Sure, but there's a big difference between what a writer generally hints at, and the specific beliefs he gives the character. To take reincarnation, for example, many different religions believe in it and many non-religious people (like me, for example) believe it's possible, too.

Archer

05-15-2005, 06:41 PM

Oh, and just to add - I think we can't conclusively say what religion the vast majority of X-characters are, but I also think it's pretty interesting to speculate on. The whole concept of mutants existing in the first place, along with life on other planets, places like Limbo, and cosmic entities running around - all those things would almost certainly affect most people's spiritual beliefs.

Jesse Newcomb

05-15-2005, 06:53 PM

Nightcrawler is obviously Roman Catholic. Rahne is Presbyterian (?). Magma and Sunspot, are they Catholic too? Danielle Moonstar follows some kind of traditional Native American beliefs. Dust is Muslim. Kitty is Jewish, Magneto was Jewish but is now probably agnostic. I vaguely remember reading that Colossus is Russian Orthodox, but I'm not sure. Banshee and Siryn are probably Catholic.

You are right about Rahne. Magma worships the Roman gods so she's a pagan. We know that Alex is raised as a Catholic from the infamous Holy War. Storm worships her goddess. And Logan worship nothing. Rogue must be a southern baptist, she was in the first cartoon but I'm sure if it that count.

jeangreydp

05-15-2005, 06:58 PM

This is an interesting topic! :)

I've wondered about this myself quite a few times. And not surprisingly, mostly wondered about Jean.

See, she is a God. So where does that leave her? Does she still worship the idea of a Christian God? Or does that conflict with what she knows about the universe? Anyway, this is all really interesting. Any thoughts?

Oh and meanwhile, I've never read INfinity Crusade- could someone summarize it, please?

Archer

05-15-2005, 07:08 PM

Magma worships the Roman gods so she's a pagan.

D'oh! Totally forgot about that, heh.

I've wondered about this myself quite a few times. And not surprisingly, mostly wondered about Jean.

See, she is a God. So where does that leave her? Does she still worship the idea of a Christian God? Or does that conflict with what she knows about the universe? Anyway, this is all really interesting. Any thoughts?

I disagree that she's a god. If she's a god, then a lot of (if not all) the "cosmic" characters are gods too, as well as some of the most powerful mutants, etc, etc - and "god" just ends up meaning "really powerful entity", which strikes me as nonsensical in a universe where pretty much *everyone* knows there's always an entity more powerful than them around the corner.

I'm not even sure I would class the Asgardian gods as gods in a useful sense - the only thing that seems to differentiate them from regular superpowered people is that long ago some humans worshipped them.

In a general sense, I can see having contact with cosmically-powered entities (or, in the case of Jean, being one) going both ways - either convincing you that "gods" are nothing more than people with powers, and there's nothing spiritual about them . . . or convincing you that the universe is such a vast and wonderful place that there must be something beyond what we can see.

Hmm - the astral plane is definately real in the Marvel Universe, but lots of religions and belief systems believe in it, so I don't think that tells us anything anyway.

Hmm - didn't the Watcher once say something like the only all-powerful being in the universe is love?

jeangreydp

05-15-2005, 07:23 PM

In a general sense, I can see having contact with cosmically-powered entities (or, in the case of Jean, being one) going both ways - either convincing you that "gods" are nothing more than people with powers, and there's nothing spiritual about them . . . or convincing you that the universe is such a vast and wonderful place that there must be something beyond what we can see.

But the thing about Jean is that she has control over time and space. She can erase the past, or the present if she likes. Make people, places, entire years like they never existed. And I'm not talking Jean Grey, I mean as Phoenix in the White Hot Room.

Thats the thing I find interesting about Jean- she is a person, but she's got this cosmic knowledge. She knows what is out there. She can concieve the idea of infinity, you know? When she's in the White Hot Room, she's omnipotent and omniscient.

The Lucky One

05-15-2005, 07:38 PM

Jamie Madrox was one of the most religious heroes? Weird. Offhand, I can't remember his character ever saying or doing a single thing involving any particular religion whatsoever. Nor did I think Archangel was really putting the "P" back in WASP.

As for the characters...

Jean Grey- some branch of Christianity (seen praying, and I think w/ a cross, in a Classic X-Men backup)
Archangel- Protestant
Havok- Catholic, apparently
Nightcrawler- Catholic, devout
Colossus, Magik- atheist (or now perhaps simply agnostic)
Storm- pagan
Wolverine- atheist (but has been to Heaven, plus seen power of cross wielded by faithful [Nightcrawler] repel Dracula)
Kitty Pryde, Sabra- Jewish
Cannonball- Southern Baptist
Karma, Sunspot- Catholic
Wolfsbane- Scots Presbyterian
Mirage- Cheyenne, plus some Asgard, presumably
Magma- Roman-Greco gods
Cypher- Some branch of Christianity

-D

Dr. Killbydeath

05-15-2005, 07:41 PM

Sean Whitmore

05-15-2005, 07:52 PM

Kitty might be the least religious jew ever

Really? Whenever Claremont writes her, she can barely shut up about being Jewish. :)

SEAN

Dr. Killbydeath

05-15-2005, 07:55 PM

Hmm.. Well, either way, she doesn't usually put on an air of judaism.. And she should be with a nice jewish boy... I hear the new young Cantor at Beth Shalom is single...

jeangreydp

05-15-2005, 07:55 PM

Really? Whenever Claremont writes her, she can barely shut up about being Jewish. :)

SEAN

I have to agree with this. She's one of the most outwardly religious people on the team. She talks about it, and participates in traditions like Yardzeit (sp?) when she is mourning Piotr.

I'd say her and Kurt are strong enough in their religion to properly represent their respective religions.

Dr. Killbydeath

05-15-2005, 07:58 PM

She did Yertziet... Not only did I miss that, but it's completely out of place. You only do yertzeit for family members and definately only for jews. This would make her a very reform jew...

jeangreydp

05-15-2005, 08:01 PM

She did Yertziet... Not only did I miss that, but it's completely out of place. You only do yertzeit for family members and definately only for jews. This would make her a very reform jew...

It was in an issue of Unlimited.

Didn't know Yertziet was specific to Jews, but yeah I guess thats a plot-hole. Otherwise, I'd say Kitty considered Pitor her family.

Dr. Killbydeath

05-15-2005, 08:11 PM

Unlike Christians, jews don't pray for people outside our faith. But in a more reform sect it would be contended that a) Peter was family and b) the mourning is more about the mourner than about the dead (Orthodox is much more about tradition and percieved correctness)...

Michael P

05-15-2005, 08:25 PM

A good rule of thumb comes from the Infinity Crusade, where the "best" of the MU's religious heroes were brainwashed. A short list reveals:

Jamie Madrox
Jean Grey
Puck
Archangel
Shaman
Talisman
Quicksilver
Scarlet Witch
Wolfsbane
Sasquatch
Storm

...are all religious to a pretty great extent.

Beast also says something to the effect of "Hey, I believe there's a God, why wasn't I taken?" The reason was he didn't believe enough, or something.

SEAN
Not necessarily. Some of the characters were chosen because they had had near death experiences.

Dr. Killbydeath

05-15-2005, 08:27 PM

What was the infinity crusade? Anyone care to share what it was and what happenned in it, or give a link to somewhere that would?

Rachel Grey

05-15-2005, 10:39 PM

I'd guess that Ray would either be an atheist or belive in something connected to the Phoenix.

Going through a past like hers would either leave her convinced that there could be no God out there because how could he let something so horrible happen, or so depenedant on religeon that she'd never shut up about it.

I cant remeber hearing her ever talk about her belifs so I'm guessing it's the first option.

GoGo Yubari

05-15-2005, 10:43 PM

Since I can never shut up about Vivisector, I'll throw him in too. I'm pretty sure he more or less says he's an atheist in one of the later issues.

jeangreydp

05-15-2005, 10:48 PM

I'd peg Cyclops as an athiest as well.

I'd say Scott, Rachel and Nathan are all pretty skeptical when it comes to a higher power. Jean I see holding onto some type of religion mostly because it's been so ingrained in her upbringing.

I'm surprised to see Warren on that list of most religious.

The Lucky One

05-15-2005, 11:39 PM

I'd peg Cyclops as an athiest as well.

Cyclops? An atheist? The man is second only to Charles Xavier in his devotion to the Dream, in his faith in the inherent goodness of mankind. His favorite movie is Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, a movie filled to the brim with hope and belief and all the things that characterize spirituality. No, Scott's no atheist- he may or may not subscribe to any organized religion, but he believes in some kind of higher power, I guarantee it.

-D

Climhazzard

05-16-2005, 01:04 AM

Cyclops? An atheist? The man is second only to Charles Xavier in his devotion to the Dream, in his faith in the inherent goodness of mankind. His favorite movie is Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, a movie filled to the brim with hope and belief and all the things that characterize spirituality. No, Scott's no atheist- he may or may not subscribe to any organized religion, but he believes in some kind of higher power, I guarantee it.

-D
None of that has anything directly to do with religion though. I'm an atheist, yet I am very devoted to the things I do believe in as well.

Archer

05-16-2005, 01:46 AM

The saddest thing is how underrepresented jews are, and their portrayal...

Kitty might be the least religious jew ever (plus I'm sure her family would love that she's going out with a guy who's grandparents probably muscled them out of Russia), Magneto is superevil. And Sabra shows up three times every twenty years...

I don't get how it's sad that Magneto's religious background is a fundamental part of his character. Unless you think it is somehow insulting to all Jews that in the Marvel Universe, a Holocaust survivor has reacted with pain and anger, rather than unconditional love of the human race.

The Fury

05-16-2005, 02:11 AM

As for the characters...

Jean Grey- some branch of Christianity (seen praying, and I think w/ a cross, in a Classic X-Men backup)
Archangel- Protestant
Havok- Catholic, apparently
Nightcrawler- Catholic, devout
Colossus, Magik- atheist (or now perhaps simply agnostic)
Storm- pagan
Wolverine- atheist (but has been to Heaven, plus seen power of cross wielded by faithful [Nightcrawler] repel Dracula)
Kitty Pryde, Sabra- Jewish
Cannonball- Southern Baptist
Karma, Sunspot- Catholic
Wolfsbane- Scots Presbyterian
Mirage- Cheyenne, plus some Asgard, presumably
Magma- Roman-Greco gods
Cypher- Some branch of Christianity

-D
The problem is that whether they are strongly religios or not.

While some like Nightcrawler, Storm and Sabra are obvious to their beliefs and faith, there are many that I don't think I've ever seen mention their beliefs or gone to church. Angel, Cypher and Hovak.

Also, the word Pagan. Earlier someone called Magma a Pagan, although she was, we knew what her religion was and so could have used that. Storm though, we know she is of a faith and a strong one at that. the use of the word Pagan there makes sense as we do not know what that faith is.

Otherwise I agree with all this.

The Lucky One

05-16-2005, 06:31 AM

While some like Nightcrawler, Storm and Sabra are obvious to their beliefs and faith, there are many that I don't think I've ever seen mention their beliefs or gone to church. Angel, Cypher and Hovak.

Havok I have no idea about, as that was Austenland. Warren and Betsy once attended morning church services together, so obviously they both still have some faith. Cypher, we really don't know about; he was buried in a religious ceremony, but that's about it.

-D

nubly

05-16-2005, 01:11 PM

they should all adopt wolverine's belief since his are the correct ones

Dizzy D

05-16-2005, 01:44 PM

Cyclops? An atheist? The man is second only to Charles Xavier in his devotion to the Dream, in his faith in the inherent goodness of mankind. His favorite movie is Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, a movie filled to the brim with hope and belief and all the things that characterize spirituality. No, Scott's no atheist- he may or may not subscribe to any organized religion, but he believes in some kind of higher power, I guarantee it.

-D

Cyclops' words to Ugly John in Morrison's X-men also show that Cyclops firmly believes in an afterlife, so he definitely isn't an atheist.

As for Jamie being religious: like Michael said, some of them were chosen because they had a death/near-death experience. Jamie was in the head of one of his dupes when Proteus killed him, so that should count.

Tommy

05-16-2005, 02:06 PM

Cyclops' words to Ugly John in Morrison's X-men also show that Cyclops firmly believes in an afterlife, so he definitely isn't an atheist.
It is hard not to when your wife regularly takes day trips to it.

In fact anyone who does not belive in an afterlife in Marvel is a royal idiot. People have been to heaven, Hell, talked to ghosts, returned from the dead, had conversations with Death herself...

Archer

05-16-2005, 02:29 PM

Cyclops' words to Ugly John in Morrison's X-men also show that Cyclops firmly believes in an afterlife, so he definitely isn't an atheist.

It is entirely possible to be an atheist, and also believe in an afterlife.

tjarvis

05-16-2005, 03:02 PM

Thats the thing I find interesting about Jean- she is a person, but she's got this cosmic knowledge. She knows what is out there. She can concieve the idea of infinity, you know? When she's in the White Hot Room, she's omnipotent and omniscient.

True enough, but the thing about the Marvel Universe is that you're only omnipotent as long as the Living Tribunal (via Proxy from the One Above All) says you are. So even Jean in the White Hot Room has people above her on the pecking order.

All that means for her is that she no longer has to believe in a Creator, she knows there's one for a fact.

As far as my boy Scott goes, I think he's probably a deist of some sort. Whether he subscribes to a particular ethos is up for debate (I would guess lapsed Christian though), but his character definitely strikes me as having a background of faith.

Emerald Ghost

05-16-2005, 03:25 PM

If anyone is interested, there is a branch of Paganism which worships the norse gods. It is called Asatru.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Asatru

Though there are many branches, and some other branches may choose to use them.

nubly

05-16-2005, 03:40 PM

It is entirely possible to be an atheist, and also believe in an afterlife.

youre thinking of agnostic. aethist dont believe in anything

If anyone is interested, there is a branch of Paganism which worships the norse gods. It is called Asatru.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Asatru

Though there are many branches, and some other branches may choose to use them.

i didnt think people actually worshipped norse gods

Emerald Ghost

05-16-2005, 03:54 PM

i didnt think people actually worshipped norse gods

Many pagans do. Also the Greek and Roman pantheons. And there has been recently an interest in Egyptian gods.

Though Wicca does focus a lot on the God and Goddess, it does not exclude other pantheons. And other branches of Paganism have pantheons too.

Archer

05-16-2005, 04:43 PM

youre thinking of agnostic. aethist dont believe in anything

"Hard atheists" believe no god exists - this is indeed "believing in something", it's believing in the lack of a god.
"Soft atheists" do not believe in any gods, because they have no reason to - but this is not the same as believing no god exists.

And any kind of atheist can believe in an afterlife, namely that consciousness persists in some form after physical death.

It is not necessary to believe in a god to believe in an afterlife - why would it be?

nubly

05-16-2005, 04:59 PM

"Hard atheists" believe no god exists - this is indeed "believing in something", it's believing in the lack of a god.
"Soft atheists" do not believe in any gods, because they have no reason to - but this is not the same as believing no god exists.

i think youre reading too much into it

Archer

05-16-2005, 05:26 PM

i think youre reading too much into it

Reading too much into what? Into the religions of X-Men (which I haven't really speculated on), or into you apparently assuming that a person needs to believe in a god to believe in an afterlife?

StarsAndGarters

05-16-2005, 05:27 PM

LOL This whole thread is about reading too much into the comics. :D That's why I like it.

That's what us fanboys do. ;)

nubly

05-16-2005, 05:36 PM

Reading too much into what? Into the religions of X-Men (which I haven't really speculated on), or into you apparently assuming that a person needs to believe in a god to believe in an afterlife?

no i never said that a person needs to believe in god to believe in the afterlife. i know peoples thoughts differ on the subject but, by definition, atheists dont believe in an afterlife

Archer

05-16-2005, 05:53 PM

no i never said that a person needs to believe in god to believe in the afterlife. i know peoples thoughts differ on the subject but, by definition, atheists dont believe in an afterlife

Unfortunately, that is simply incorrect. Going by the broad definition, atheists *do not believe in god*. It is certainly possible to believe in an afterlife without believing in god. What part of this aren't you understanding?

nubly

05-16-2005, 06:04 PM

*sigh*

i'll just move on...

StarsAndGarters

05-16-2005, 06:05 PM

*sigh*

i'll just move on...Probably for the best. Big of ya too. ;)

Anybody know anything about Xavier's beliefs?

Archer

05-16-2005, 06:28 PM

Anybody know anything about Xavier's beliefs?

I can't think of any references . . . though apparently the more faith people have in non-spiritual, non-religious ideals, the less faith they tend to have in religion (and vice versa). If that applies to Xavier, the fact that he has so much faith in his dream - even when it's been torn up and twisted - implies he wouldn't have much faith in any higher powers.

I could really see him as someone who has no real time for or interest in religion, instead being much more concerned with how people treat each other here and now, trying to help people here in *this* life as opposed to speculating about life after death. As he travelled a lot in his youth, he was probably exposed to a whole lot of different cultures, ideas, and religions - which might make him less inclined to believe that any one of them is the "one true" way.

Dr. Killbydeath

05-16-2005, 07:17 PM

I don't get how it's sad that Magneto's religious background is a fundamental part of his character. Unless you think it is somehow insulting to all Jews that in the Marvel Universe, a Holocaust survivor has reacted with pain and anger, rather than unconditional love of the human race.

The whole thing about Magneto is that he doesn't do bad things because he wants control, it's because he wants a better fututre for his people. His experience in the Holocaust is why he has such beliefs. However to most people he is a villain, and the most recognizeable jew in comics. (Shadowcat is less known, and The Thing is barely ever mentioned as a jew)...

The Lucky One

05-16-2005, 09:09 PM

Anybody know anything about Xavier's beliefs?

I'm 100% positive it's been referenced before, but for the life of me I can't remember where. From what I can recall, he's something of a lapsed deist who isn't sure what kind of higher power he currently believes in, if any.

Lisa Simpson: "I happen to be a Buddhist, thank you very much."
Catholic priest: "Oh. Well, that's nice- lots of young children have imaginary friends."
;)

-D

jeangreydp

05-16-2005, 11:21 PM

Cyclops? An atheist? The man is second only to Charles Xavier in his devotion to the Dream, in his faith in the inherent goodness of mankind. His favorite movie is Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, a movie filled to the brim with hope and belief and all the things that characterize spirituality. No, Scott's no atheist- he may or may not subscribe to any organized religion, but he believes in some kind of higher power, I guarantee it.

-D

Yeah, the thing is I think Cyclops believes there is good in all people. But I think most of his faith is in mankind and not in a higher power.

Grendel0606

05-16-2005, 11:23 PM

Yeah, the thing is I think Cyclops believes there is good in all people. But I think most of his faith is in mankind and not in a higher power.
In Uncanny 137 when he thinks about what Phoenix did he thinks something along the line that he'd rather leave punishment to God and err on the side of mercy. Seems to me he is religious in a vague way.

Beast

03-31-2006, 06:53 PM

Old thread, but someone pointed me to this site online and it's rather well researched. :)

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_book_religion.html

punisher_ryu

03-31-2006, 08:18 PM

who cares?

all religion is good for is justifying wars and massacres.

religion is often the driving force behind war and killing.

Wannabe

03-31-2006, 08:50 PM

(Shadowcat is less known, and The Thing is barely ever mentioned as a jew)...

The Thing is mentioned as being Jewish on a fairly regular basis. It's not like writers are going to go out of their way to mention a character faith. In real life, if you're just talking to your friends, does your religion consistintly come up? Probably not. It probably comes up less when you're saving the world.

On a different note, Forge believes in some Native American religion.