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View Full Version : will storm have the same down fall as cyclops



gambitxremy
09-27-2015, 08:36 PM
Now that mutants are on the edge of oblivion again with no more mutant births and storm seeming to be the new leader of the x-men and mutantkind in cyclops absents will she cross those moral lines that cyclops did and fall from grace

TakoM
09-27-2015, 08:47 PM
Now that mutants are on the edge of oblivion again with no more mutant births and storm seeming to be the new leader of the x-men and mutantkind in cyclops absents will she cross those moral lines that cyclops did and fall from grace

I can defiantly see that Xavier, Cyclops were fallen down from grace earlier. Logan had never any grace in him, so the direction in which the authors go with the leader(s) of the X-Men is clear.
Storm was also the leader of the X-Force earlier and backed up Logan killing politic even when the current author doesn't do anything to her it is very likely it will be with the next.

somacula
09-27-2015, 09:16 PM
Now that mutants are on the edge of oblivion again with no more mutant births and storm seeming to be the new leader of the x-men and mutantkind in cyclops absents will she cross those moral lines that cyclops did and fall from grace

I think writers will think twice before taking down storm, I remember that the Internet almost imploded after the rumors that John Stewart green Lantern would die, and I'm sure some people were calling DC racists for that (even though it didn't happened). So if Marvel even attempts to do that expect way more than a column of "the mission" in response.

I'm sure it was easier to do that to Cyke because : for starters a lot of people don't particularly like him and he isn't a very iconic character; then he fits the WASP archetype since both of his parents were white, he descends from British immigrants, he's tall and white and lives in a mansion. He's more closer to a metaphor of the ruling class than an excluded minority.

I also remember that in the ANAD avengers interview they were happy not by the fact that they were a more diverse team but by the fact there was only one white member, now consider the fact that a lot of A listers are being replaced by minority characters and add storm to the equation. She represents more closely what the X-Men are supossed to be all about (a minority metaphor according to marvel IMO ), because of that I think she's safe until they need to return to the Cyke status quo, and they'll avoid taking her down hard when that happens, it'll be more like she has to take care of important business thus she leaves the X-Men to Cyke .

Finally I think the X-Men are more about a group of social outcasts and runaways that band together and form their own group rather than a minority metaphor but I think marvel is going for the latter

idiyona
09-27-2015, 10:38 PM
Wasn't there a previous time when a writer wanted to kill Storm but then editorial shut that down because of the fear of the backlash that would happen? If someone suggested Storm have her own downfall I assume the same thing would happen.

Confuzzled
09-27-2015, 10:40 PM
Wasn't there a previous time when a writer wanted to kill Storm but then editorial shut that down because of the fear of the backlash that would happen? If someone suggested Storm have her own downfall I assume the same thing would happen.

Hopefully. Shockingly, Bishop's downfall wasn't off-limits. Why, Marvel, why?

J.D. Owe
09-27-2015, 11:02 PM
Wasn't there a previous time when a writer wanted to kill Storm but then editorial shut that down because of the fear of the backlash that would happen? If someone suggested Storm have her own downfall I assume the same thing would happen.

It was before the marriage, if I recall correctly. They just had no idea what to do with her.

Bl00dwerK
09-28-2015, 01:07 AM
Doubt it. I think they'll have that angle covered with Magneto in Uncanny...

yet another
09-28-2015, 02:06 AM
Kinda doubt it, that would require her to actually get some development of her own. More likely she'll play the role of 90:s Cyclops, be someone the cool characters can play off against.

Iron Fist
09-28-2015, 02:38 AM
Oh god yes.

Editorial have no idea what to do with a strong female character like Storm, they'll grind her down until she's a bitchy commander type and will probably realise Cyclops was right instead of letting her come up with her own solutions.

The Fury
09-28-2015, 02:49 AM
Probably, give them time and X-men's moral compass will only be Iceman.

Just Iceman, on his own.

...
..
.

In fact, is this the case? *thinks*

MarvelMaster616
09-28-2015, 03:28 AM
That's not an unreasonable question to ask, given how many characters have fallen from grace in recent years. And in the long run, Storm might have the same fall. But I don't think that'll happen anytime soon unless Marvel just really butchers her character, which is always a possibility. Storm, unlike Cyclops and Xavier, doesn't have the same emotional baggage. She hasn't made the same egregious mistakes or kept deep, dark secrets that would undermine the trust and respect of her fellow X-men. She's always been among the most sincere and forthcoming of the X-men. So I think that'll work to her advantage as she takes on a leadership role in the X-men.

The Fury
09-28-2015, 03:30 AM
... kept deep, dark secrets that would undermine the trust and respect of her fellow X-men...
Give it 15 seconds and the power of the retcon can take care of that.

somacula
09-28-2015, 05:53 AM
So we all agree that it's harder to take down storm because of positive discrimination

shgs
09-28-2015, 06:16 AM
So we all agree that it's harder to take down storm because of positive discrimination

Did anyone agree with that?

Darkgreed
09-28-2015, 06:28 AM
well they can take down Storm for a lot of reasons. a lot of pressure is going to come down on her, she has mutant dying left and right. no more mutants being born, they are all that they have left. The same spot Cyclops was in, now she has a X-Focre (uncanny x-men) and a safe spot for mutants away from humans (utopia). Beast left and joined the Inhumans (Beast joined the Avengers). all we need now is .....wait for it.......another Schism!!!! but this time it will be Jean who splits the X-Men apart (it could be OML, but for a better story it should be Jean)

Triniking1234
09-28-2015, 07:27 AM
It was before the marriage, if I recall correctly. They just had no idea what to do with her.

Thank God Claremont saved her with Extreme X-Men. ;)

Arya
09-28-2015, 08:27 AM
I doubt it, it's been done twice and Storm has already been in Scott's position before Scott was in Scott's position. Anyone remember the outback era? She formed a militant attack squad of X-men back then and learned from her mistakes. Storm has been making difficult decisions for decades.

ExodusCloak
09-28-2015, 08:31 AM
Definitely, you have two options. Shes either incompetent like Wolverine or follows Cyclops path. If there is to be any balance in the story Storm will have to appear badly to give the inhumans a leg to stand on.

Magneto
09-28-2015, 09:07 AM
She was already a bad leader. She even admits it after Mutant Massacre.

just another user
09-28-2015, 11:14 AM
will she cross those moral lines that cyclops did and fall from grace

she's not gonna leave her wife and newborn kid dude.

JustAnotherFan
09-28-2015, 11:22 AM
I don't know... Really depends on Marvel bigwigs and what they decree. I could see them doing that or see it happening by accident due to poor writing but I hope not. She already suffered quite a bit during the '00's when she was forcefully tied to a less recognizable character in order to boost his popularity so that she could make way for Cyclops to become the king of mutants.

JustAnotherFan
09-28-2015, 11:23 AM
she's not gonna leave her wife and newborn kid dude.

Well, she did already leave her husband. And also left/ignored her only kid around ATM, Kymera. So she's on the right path, LoL

idiyona
09-28-2015, 12:40 PM
Well, she did already leave her husband. And also left/ignored her only kid around ATM, Kymera. So she's on the right path, LoL

You reallyhave to wonder what the point of Kymera was. She stayed around after BOTA, joined for one arc, and then left.

sage
09-28-2015, 02:25 PM
Thank God Claremont saved her with Extreme X-Men. ;)

It was better for Claremont to tell in-character stories for Storm, at the cost of her becoming irrelevant, than for Morrison to use her as he intended to have an out-of-character affair with Cyclops (although the latter would have increased her "profile")

Arya
09-28-2015, 03:06 PM
It was better for Claremont to tell in-character stories for Storm, at the cost of her becoming irrelevant, than for Morrison to use her as he intended to have an out-of-character affair with Cyclops (although the latter would have increased her "profile")

Really? I hadn't heard that he wanted to use her at all.

somacula
09-28-2015, 03:12 PM
It was better for Claremont to tell in-character stories for Storm, at the cost of her becoming irrelevant, than for Morrison to use her as he intended to have an out-of-character affair with Cyclops (although the latter would have increased her "profile")

So you're implying that banging Cyke would have increased her popularity?

Londo Bellian
09-28-2015, 03:19 PM
Really? I hadn't heard that he wanted to use her at all.


That was the original plan as the story went. Had Morrison been allowed to revive Collossus for his NXM team, then Emma would not be around, Storm would have remained and we would have gotten Scororo (Jean: Sisters before Misters, traitor! How could you?) instead.

As canon went, no Collossus, so GM got Emma and gave her the organic DIAMOND thing (superior to steel!), Storm was cut and we got the Scemma.

Arya
09-28-2015, 03:51 PM
That was the original plan as the story went. Had Morrison been allowed to revive Collossus for his NXM team, then Emma would not be around, Storm would have remained and we would have gotten Scororo (Jean: Sisters before Misters, traitor! How could you?) instead.

As canon went, no Collossus, so GM got Emma and gave her the organic DIAMOND thing (superior to steel!), Storm was cut and we got the Scemma.

Thank you Claremont.

sage
09-28-2015, 03:59 PM
So you're implying that banging Cyke would have increased her popularity?

No. I'm implying that being included in high-profile runs by popular writers like Morrison and Whedon would have increased her popularity.

BlkGldBlu
09-28-2015, 04:53 PM
If the morlocks are involved im sure they'll be used as cannon fodder, and storm will be to blame. Also a main xmen dies, if storm doesn't self sacrifice herself first.

TakoM
09-28-2015, 05:55 PM
Did anyone agree with that?

So far I understand the discussion nobody besides him.

It is ridicules to think so even when the diversity hype stops them to do something like that it won't hold on forever.
This hype is very U.S specific and most in the world even know that it exist and I do only because of CBR and the board.
I personally don't like trashing characters regardless of their skin colour but so long not really something change we will continue to see characters drown in the dumpster.

About Cyclops I think his weakness is that he was like Cap(steve) and Superman a moralist. I think in many readers viewed it made him too one dimensional but I won't say that he weren't A class he was for sure simple because he was a team leader of the X-men for so long and he was also one of the founding members. He was maybe not the most interesting X-men but he is/was very iconic.

Juggernaut Punch
09-28-2015, 06:17 PM
I doubt they'll go that way with her, but it would make sense that she would start to buckle under the pressure. She hasn't been making the best decisions in general the last couple of years, her behaviour has been somewhat erratic.

Honestly, I have the lowest hopes when it comes to how Storm is going to continue to be developed in ANAD Marvel. I doubt she'll be given as prominent and interesting an arc as Cyclops got.

Omega Alpha
09-28-2015, 07:16 PM
It was better for Claremont to tell in-character stories for Storm, at the cost of her becoming irrelevant, than for Morrison to use her as he intended to have an out-of-character affair with Cyclops (although the latter would have increased her "profile")

We don't know if they would have an affair, that's just speculation; it's quite possible that the affair idea only came after Emma was brought to the table (specially because Storm doesn't have psychic powers).

Goddess
09-28-2015, 07:27 PM
I'll never get "We ran out of ideas for this character". If your writers can't come up with new and inventive ideas for your characters than you need to hire new writers.

xiophen
09-28-2015, 08:24 PM
I doubt it, it's been done twice and Storm has already been in Scott's position before Scott was in Scott's position. Anyone remember the outback era? She formed a militant attack squad of X-men back then and learned from her mistakes. Storm has been making difficult decisions for decades.

The outback Era was no where near militant like the post M-day x-force.

Storm needs to be rebuilt since the botched stupidity that became her wedding to black panther.

somacula
09-28-2015, 08:59 PM
So far I understand the discussion nobody besides him.

It is ridicules to think so even when the diversity hype stops them to do something like that it won't hold on forever.
This hype is very U.S specific and most in the world even know that it exist and I do only because of CBR and the board.
I personally don't like trashing characters regardless of their skin colour but so long not really something change we will continue to see characters drown in the dumpster.
Well diversity is very very important in US, from accepting more LGBT creators to hiring more black and female creators, for example DC is trying to hire black and female creators over male white creators. It does start as a hype but the objetcives the big two are iming for is to diversify their fanbase, adding more women and minorities to their loyal client less and move away from the stereotype of white geek that lives in his basement. Overall make comics more inclusive to all genders and races, and it starts with diversity hype aided by movie hype


About Cyclops I think his weakness is that he was like Cap(steve) and Superman a moralist. I think in many readers viewed it made him too one dimensional but I won't say that he weren't A class he was for sure simple because he was a team leader of the X-men for so long and he was also one of the founding members. He was maybe not the most interesting X-men but he is/was very conic.
Emaphasis in was, his character arc the last 10 years or so was going from one dimensional uptight leader of the X men to wild card ends justify means leader, the growth was smooth and the payoff has been ... not bad actually, who'd think that cyke would insult captain america in his face and get away with it, the transition wasn't forced and it had a lot of logic. I don't think cyclops is conic, he's more cilindric


I doubt they'll go that way with her, but it would make sense that she would start to buckle under the pressure. She hasn't been making the best decisions in general the last couple of years, her behaviour has been somewhat erratic.

Honestly, I have the lowest hopes when it comes to how Storm is going to continue to be developed in ANAD Marvel. I doubt she'll be given as prominent and interesting an arc as Cyclops got.
I think cyclops got that arc of becoming badass ends justify means leader because marvel had absolutely nothing to lose by turning him into that, neither any problem using him as a scapegoat in AvX, and he even won after that by proving that he was right and whoever was writing AvX didn't had enough talent to turn him into a believable villain.

Now I think marvel will want to stay in safe zone regarding to storm, wouldn't want to piss off any SJW ,the guy that writes the mission or the mary sue; too much chance of backlas ,bad publicity and ubrealiable payoff in the long term over a change that might not be good for the characters, and could also alienate the fans

RLAAMJR.
09-28-2015, 10:31 PM
I don't think they would make Storm's leadership similar to Cyclops.

FluffyCyclopsRLZ
09-29-2015, 05:49 AM
No. Sellouts prosper. Sure, Storm might have to bite the bullet and play token antagonist to the x-verse's latest Disney Princess (aka Magik), but she'll be fiiine overall.

Rotm
09-29-2015, 08:13 AM
No. Sellouts prosper. Sure, Storm might have to bite the bullet and play token antagonist to the x-verse's latest Disney Princess (aka Magik), but she'll be fiiine overall.

That's a very odd thing to complain about. A new paradigm with Storm as the zealot and Magik as her rebel would be a lot better than her sitting around doing nothing. It would take a character shift for her, but shes the easiest to change into it. Someone needs to introduce a new philosophical leader for the X-men along with them though otherwise she will end up like Cyke. Someone to formulate a vision for Storm to follow and mediate disputes that everyone respects. it always goes bad when the team leader has to embody both roles.

somacula
09-29-2015, 10:08 AM
That's a very odd thing to complain about. A new paradigm with Storm as the zealot and Magik as her rebel would be a lot better than her sitting around doing nothing. It would take a character shift for her, but shes the easiest to change into it. Someone needs to introduce a new philosophical leader for the X-men along with them though otherwise she will end up like Cyke. Someone to formulate a vision for Storm to follow and mediate disputes that everyone respects. it always goes bad when the team leader has to embody both roles.
Magneto or teen Cyke?

Rotm
09-29-2015, 11:13 AM
Magneto or teen Cyke?

Charles or real Jean traditionally. Nightcrawler could do it back when it back when Cyke/Wolverine was the dynamic. It would have to be someone Magik would listen to so maybe teenclops but he hasn't earned it. Its hard to imagine Storm listening to him either with ten years of seniority on him.

Speaking of Magneto hes got the same problem with Mystique on his team. He gets obsessed with something because hes such a zealot, Mystique disagrees, leaves and takes half the team with her because no one is there to mediate and define their identity just like Schism, just like Hickvengers.

J.D. Owe
09-29-2015, 11:28 AM
The outback Era was no where near militant like the post M-day x-force.

Storm needs to be rebuilt since the botched stupidity that became her wedding to black panther.

She's been fully under the X-pen for years. BP has nothing to do with her current state.

FluffyCyclopsRLZ
09-29-2015, 12:39 PM
A new paradigm with Storm as the zealot and Magik as her rebel would be a lot better than her sitting around doing nothing.

Just about anything would be better for the character than sitting around doing nothing. Still. Storm spent the last few years whining and embarrassing herself over Cyclops being a zealot. Kinda lulzy.

Rotm
09-29-2015, 01:35 PM
Just about anything would be better for the character than sitting around doing nothing. Still. Storm spent the last few years whining and embarrassing herself over Cyclops being a zealot. Kinda lulzy.

That's how they write leaders. Its odd to me they seem to view her as a natural character to do so. Storm's character has been a lot like Beast to me lately. She wouldn't want to do it but also has a high standard of anyone that does lead. Wherein their ideals are more important than logical action.

FluffyCyclopsRLZ
09-29-2015, 01:53 PM
That's how they write leaders. Its odd to me they seem to view her as a natural character to do so. Storm's character has been a lot like Beast to me lately. She wouldn't want to do it but also has a high standard of anyone that does lead. Wherein their ideals are more important than logical action.

No, she doesn't. She clearly, clearly holds that-mean-dudebro-who-had-sex-with-Jean-Grey to a higher standard than other leaders.

Rotm
09-29-2015, 02:10 PM
No, she doesn't. She clearly, clearly holds that-mean-dudebro-who-had-sex-with-Jean-Grey to a higher standard than other leaders.

If you mean Wolverine I'd say its consistent with how I see them. His idealistic appeal better lined up with Storm/Beast's emotionally founded identities. His actual actions or the logic of what he wanted wasn't their basis for following him.

FluffyCyclopsRLZ
09-29-2015, 03:03 PM
If you mean Wolverine

No. By "other leaders", I mean other leaders. As in, anyone but Cyclops. Oh, sure, Storm has thrown tantrums and gotten in people's faces, but she usually forgets about it a few weeks worth of continuity later.


I'd say its consistent with how I see them. His idealistic appeal better lined up with Storm/Beast's emotionally founded identities.His actual actions or the logic of what he wanted wasn't their basis for following him.

Idealistic appeal? Beast was totally cool with Wolverine's X-Force and Storm was totally cool with drafting the "children" into battle whenever she felt like it. This wasn't about idealism. This was about a bunch of sexually frustrated creeps holding themselves to lower standards while vilifying the one mean-dudebro-who-had-sex-with-Jean-Grey.

And, hey, just like that, we're back on topic. Storm never had sex with Jean Grey. She'll be fiiiine.

LordAllMIghty
09-29-2015, 08:02 PM
Storm went through her questionable leadership role just before Outback days....so I hope we get something new.