Realistic DBZ powerlevels

[Charge]

Remember the episode in the buu saga when babidi was measuring goku's powerlevel with that device of his - he said that goku was at 3000 'killies' and that 300 'killes' was enough to destroy a planet. Since vegeta could destroy a planet at 18,000 that places goku at a little over 180,000 - a far cry from the multi million power levels posted on the net.... Well the question is: Were characters at the ssj 1/ssj 2 etc stage really THAT much more powerful than non ssj characters........

Some other instances supporting such a line of thought:
1) In one of the movies an android is surprised when goku blocks a ball of energy that could destroy 1/2 a planet....... If the power levels in that era were actually so high why would someone be using blasts which vegeta at 18,000 could easily produce?. (It’s the same movie in which goku absorbs the spirit ball....)

2) In the buu saga super buu at his max created a ball of energy that could "crack the planet in half" according to denday (is that spelling correct?).The same argument as above

3) Throughout dbz stray blasts from many powerful characters do jack squat to the planet they are standing on.... If they were soo powerful the planets should have been destroyed

[Deskad]

Canon real powerlevel for SS Goku was 15,000,000 and 12,000,000 for all-out-going Frieza. From there on, we really don't know. But the way things went it's easy to assume most of em went over 100,000,000 by the Cell games.

[Knightmare]

and to think- Goku started out at just 325 at the start of DBZ. Frankly- the mammoth levels just got repetitive and made wtahcign DBZ pointless.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

and to think- Goku started out at just 325 at the start of DBZ. Frankly- the mammoth levels just got repetitive and made wtahcign DBZ pointless.
Killis can't be used since we don't know what they measured. Goku actually started at the beginning of Dragon Ball Z with a power level of 334 without his weighted clothes on, 418 without.

[Charge]

Canon real powerlevel for SS Goku was 15,000,000 and 12,000,000 for all-out-going Frieza. From there on, we really don't know. But the way things went it's easy to assume most of em went over 100,000,000 by the Cell games.

How is this cannon - all the scouters had been destroyed by the time goku and freeza even began to fight. And by cannon what are you including - Only the shows or the various RPGs, games etc.......

[Infinity Chameleon]

How is this cannon - all the scouters had been destroyed by the time goku and freeza even began to fight. And by cannon what are you including - Only the shows or the various RPGs, games etc.......

The Dazenshyuu (or however the hell it's spelled): a series of IIRC ten guidebooks to the world of DB, all information supplied by Toriyama -- if not written directly by him.

[Charge]

The Dazenshyuu (or however the hell it's spelled): a series of IIRC ten guidebooks to the world of DB, all information supplied by Toriyama -- if not written directly by him.

The shows are higher canonically than any guidebook and a power level that high clearly contradicts the babidi quote i mentioned earlier .....

[Infinity Chameleon]

The shows are higher canonically than any guidebook and a power level that high clearly contradicts the babidi quote i mentioned earlier .....

Toriyama had lost almost all interest in the series long before that point and was only writing it to fulfill his contractual obligation. He wanted to end the series at the Furiiza saga, but it was so popular that he wasn't allowed. He wasn't even allowed to take the series in the direction he wanted when he did resign himself to continuing. Continuity is probably about the last thing I imagined he'd be truly concerned with.

In any event, Furiiza outright said that his first form's power level was 530,000; and that his second form's power level was at least 1,000,000. Then in his fourth form he initially said he was using 1/3 of his power, and increased that to 1/2 at that time. Shortly after he increased it to 70%, and eventually 100%.

[Charge]

In any event, Furiiza outright said that his first form's power level was 530,000; and that his second form's power level was at least 1,000,000. Then in his fourth form he initially said he was using 1/3 of his power, and increased that to 1/2 at that time. Shortly after he increased it to 70%, and eventually 100%.

Hmmm........ i dont remember him saying anything like that so I'l have to take your word for it. But if he did have a power level that high how would you explain the various problems I pointed out in my first post.........

[Infinity Chameleon]

Hmmm........ i dont remember him saying anything like that so I'l have to take your word for it.

Try watching the episodes in Japanese with it set to use English *non-dub* subtitles. The options are there. It may take some work to configure it correctly but after a while you won't have the dub dialogue.

Of course, for this, you'll have to be watching the series on DVD because FUNi's tapes don't offer this method -- the tapes just use dub dialogue. Which is, generally, complete and utter crap. Plus the tapes use their music, which sucks; and the footage that's actually shown is often ridiculously edited.

Seriously, there are various episodes with some scenes that are so bloody and graphic that if FUNi released them on tape they would probably be sued, since this is a "children's show". I'm thinking specifically of Furiiza's torturing of Kuririn, and Piccolo's second Makankosappo going directly through Radittsu and Son Goku. But you can also add Furiiza's torturing of Bejiita as he's dying, or of Son Gohan.



But if he did have a power level that high how would you explain the various problems I pointed out in my first post.........

For problem #1, the movies except for I think Movie 5 (the first Kuula movie), are non-canon. Most of them are so far out of canon they're not even plausible; some aren't that far but still have something that prevents them from being truly canon, vis-a-vis the manga.

For problem #2, this is a Buu saga issue, and since Toriyama had long since stopped caring about the series, he probably didn't pay too much attention to continuity.

For problem #3, most of the characters need the planet to actually exist for them to survive, so plot dictates that the planet will survive except where Toriyama's plot, scant as it was, dictates that it go kablooie.

[The Drunkard Kid]

In the manga fight with Frieza, Vegeta (after his last power-up of that arc), fired a massive energy ball at Frieza in a panic which Piccolo claimed would blow up the planet if it hit and second form Frieza (IIRC, in the manga he claimed to be over a million at that point) casually kicked it straight up.

Frieza in his fourth form while fighting at less than a third power managed to survive getting a direct hit from a Kamehameha X20 with only light damage, though in retaliation for actually causing him pain he was about to destroy the planet with one shot (it was that black sphere with lightning arcing around it, but it took him only a moment to gather it); however, when he reached up to catch Goku's massive Genki Dama, the sphere had dissappeared – in the manga it wasn't clear whether Frieza had dissapated it or the Genki Dama had overwhelmed it, though the anime had the latter happen.

When he got pissed off at SSJ Goku, he casually gathered a sphere of energy over his head and threw it at the planet with the intention of blowing it up; the power of the attack was so great that Kaiou-Sama actually thought that the planet had been destroyed until Kami-Sama had telepathically contacted him which indicated that Piccolo, who was on Namek at the time, was still alive. Goku said that Frieza had held back so much because he was afraid of getting caught in the backblast of the planet's explosion (though when he came back as a cyborg, it didn't look like he had any injuries he hadn't already had at the end of his fight with Goku), and when he told Frieza that the only reason that he (Fr) hadn't just finished the job with another attack was because he wanted to truly test himself against the Legendary Super Saiyajin, the dictator didn't do anything to contradict him.

As a cyborg, both he and his father repeatedly claim that Frieza (who, despite the daizenshuu's claims, was probably much stronger; the dad never refuted his son's repeated claims of being the strongest in the universe, only looked to be in form 2, and tried to cheat to defeat Trunks) could casually destroy the Earth; unlike the anime, Frieza never actually tries to do so.

[Charge]

In the manga fight with Frieza, Vegeta (after his last power-up of that arc), fired a massive energy ball at Frieza in a panic which Piccolo claimed would blow up the planet if it hit and second form Frieza (IIRC, in the manga he claimed to be over a million at that point) casually kicked it straight up.

Frieza in his fourth form while fighting at less than a third power managed to survive getting a direct hit from a Kamehameha X20 with only light damage, though in retaliation for actually causing him pain he was about to destroy the planet with one shot (it was that black sphere with lightning arcing around it, but it took him only a moment to gather it); however, when he reached up to catch Goku's massive Genki Dama, the sphere had dissappeared – in the manga it wasn't clear whether Frieza had dissapated it or the Genki Dama had overwhelmed it, though the anime had the latter happen.

When he got pissed off at SSJ Goku, he casually gathered a sphere of energy over his head and threw it at the planet with the intention of blowing it up; the power of the attack was so great that Kaiou-Sama actually thought that the planet had been destroyed until Kami-Sama had telepathically contacted him which indicated that Piccolo, who was on Namek at the time, was still alive. Goku said that Frieza had held back so much because he was afraid of getting caught in the backblast of the planet's explosion (though when he came back as a cyborg, it didn't look like he had any injuries he hadn't already had at the end of his fight with Goku), and when he told Frieza that the only reason that he (Fr) hadn't just finished the job with another attack was because he wanted to truly test himself against the Legendary Super Saiyajin, the dictator didn't do anything to contradict him.

As a cyborg, both he and his father repeatedly claim that Frieza (who, despite the daizenshuu's claims, was probably much stronger; the dad never refuted his son's repeated claims of being the strongest in the universe, only looked to be in form 2, and tried to cheat to defeat Trunks) could casually destroy the Earth; unlike the anime, Frieza never actually tries to do so.


Ur telling me that vegeta couldn't have done any of this casually?(Im talking about the time he blew up Arlia)

Thats the point - anything these people were doing could have been done by vegeta and goku in the saiyan saga - read my first post.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Ur telling me that vegeta couldn't have done any of this casually?(Im talking about the time he blew up Arlia)

Thats the point - anything these people were doing could have been done by vegeta and goku in the saiyan saga - read my first post.To be fair, the Arlia episode wasn't in the manga, and I hold that any of the named fighters on Namek could have destroyed the planet with only minor effort by the time Kuririn got killed. Its just that I've seen lots of people claim that DBZ'ers can't actually blow up planets cause Frieza's attempt only blew up the core without remembering/knowing the reason that happened or any of the character comments.

Besides, until the Cell Saga, there wasn't really anything bigger than a planet that the characters could really demonstrate their powers on; these incidents were to show the relative amounts of ease that they had in the planet busting/attempted busting feats.

[The Drunkard Kid]

If you want a hint of relative strengths between the characters, there's the fact that Nail, who was probably stronger than any of the humans on Namek couldn't even get Form 1 Frieza to move at all when the latter just stood there and took full out blows from them. Perfect Cell didn't even feel Kuririn's best attacks when the former was just standing there and gazing at his new form in awe. Similarly, SSJ2 Gohan was ripping people that were about as strong as SSJ Vegeta and SSJ Trunks apart with one punch each.

In terms of energy blasts, I generally think that by the time of the fight against Piccolo Daimaou, they had learned how to confine the power of their attacks into a certain blast radius as long as they weren't using their maximum power in them.

[epyon]

maybe i just singed up but i've been whit a smal problem all the time since i heard two pepole in dragon ball z

the fist friza toled nail that he was about 500.000 times stronger so if nail's power lvl was 32.000 friza would have the power lvl of 16.000.000.000
but on all the sites he has a power lvl of only 16.000.000

my second error.
supreme kai toled goku that he was 1000 times stronger the friza
so if friza was even at 16.000.000 suprime kia should be at 16.000.000.000
but on all the sites sepreme kai was put on about 100.000.000
so my question is is there any sites whit the wricht power lvl's or is it just that nobody has payes enuf atention to the series to figere this one out

btw if my compereces whit nail and friza was corect then the suprime kai should have just about 16.000.000.000.000 whit is a whole lot bigger the the 100.000.000 then hes always given

who can awnser me if im richt and if im just the only one who figered this one out

if im corect the all the powerleves in the buu saga's are just plain wrong
theb btw every power lvl from the friza saga from friza and goku are wrong

but i got another speatch picolo's powerlevel was estemated at 800.000 and he couldent toutch friza in his final state.
goku was estamated at 300.000
and he was hitting the shit out of friza and he wasent useing his kaio-ken atack when he was fichiting friza at 1% of friza's total power.
so now i think i've made my point so if anybody can explain it to me i would be verry happy

regards
Epyon The Master Of Gundam's

and

proud suporter of VEGETA the best sai-ýan :cool: :D :confused:

[Infinity Chameleon]

<snip post>

First problem: Your spelling is awful.

Second problem: You're referencing the FUNi dub, which is usually extremely inaccurate. It's especially inaccurate in the instances you reference.

[Rosie]

Honestly, the power levels are ridiculous.

I hate the way the "Normal" characters find it so hard to touch the "Big bad guys", though it is obvious their combined efforts against Cell begin to do him some serious damage, that was ALL of the "weaklings" AND Vegeta fighting together.

I love the idea that any old nut can have a blow at someone. THe "Power Levels" thing was interesting but got impossibly ridiculous even in the Frieza saga, let alone the Buu Saga.

I never actually say a huge amount of the Frieza/Namek, Saga to be honest. THe main ones I've seen are the Vegeta and Android/Cell saga. I thought the Android one was really cool and very comic bookish. The Cell saga was pretty cool too but the power levels got silly. Not to mention everything was leading up to the Freiza saga before, and then Cell and Buu came out of nowhere. At least Cell had SOME kind of link to the past.

[mgs]

Killis can't be used since we don't know what they measured. Goku actually started at the beginning of Dragon Ball Z with a power level of 334 without his weighted clothes on, 418 without.
what did his clothes have to do with his power level?

[SAMAS]

what did his clothes have to do with his power level? His clothes were extremely heavy, and as such were harder to move around in. Thus, he seemed weaker with them on.

[mgs]

His clothes were extremely heavy, and as such were harder to move around in. Thus, he seemed weaker with them on.
oh. thanks samas. i guess they maybe acted like a low-tech version of how he trained to get stronger in the high-gravity capsule? so when he took them off, because they were heavier than normal, he was getting stronger wearing them around?