All Purpose Buffy The Vampire Slayer

[Typo Lad]

The whole Holtz/Sahjahn/Connor storyline and the development of Badass Wesley is the reason why season 3 of Angel is my favorite.

'round these parts, he's known as "Scruffy Wesley"

[Hi-Fi]

Anya was my favorite Buffy character, along with Xander. When she died I gasped. :(

And she's the best part of The Body.

[Ryan Day]

Anya was my favorite Buffy character, along with Xander. When she died I gasped. :(


I love Anya. When she died, I was annoyed, since it was such an obvious "we have to kill someone but it can't be anyone important" death. (and Whedon admits as much on the commentary)

Anya's about the only character I still like by the end of season six, since everyone else gets totally annoying and whiney as it progresses.

[Duy]

I love Anya. When she died, I was annoyed, since it was such an obvious "we have to kill someone but it can't be anyone important" death. (and Whedon admits as much on the commentary)

Anya's about the only character I still like by the end of season six, since everyone else gets totally annoying and whiney as it progresses.
I think it was also a matter of Emma Caulfield being the only one to state that when Buffy was done, she wanted nothing more to do with it.

[Nick Kal]

She was too funny.

I actually wonder about the commentary, though, since it was brought up... how come SMG never appears in any of the outtakes or interviews?

[Chiasm]

She was too funny.

I actually wonder about the commentary, though, since it was brought up... how come SMG never appears in any of the outtakes or interviews?

Purely speculation on my part but I'm basing this off stories about the end of Buffy and comments I've seen by other actors from the show.

SMG was extremely divaish on the show and basically had the diva "I'm better than you" attitude. In addition she very much did not want to continue on Buffy and was quite happy when it ended. SMG did not attend the wrap party for the series because she was filming The Grudge at the time. Quite a few regular cast members were said to have said they were happy that SMG wasn't there to ruin the party.

Basically I think SMG was a stuck up snob who didn't want to do something she felt was beneath her like interviews or commentaries. She wanted to stay as far away from Buffy as she contractually could.

The joke was on SMG though since Angel showed that Buffyverse could thrive without Buffy and I think fans would gladly accept a future series sans Buffy.

[SnowTrooper]

The joke was on SMG though since Angel showed that Buffyverse could thrive without Buffy and I think fans would gladly accept a future series sans Buffy.

I would love another Buffyverse show. One with Spike as the main character would be especially awesome. I wouldnt even care if the name Buffy was ever said either.

[Duy]

I would love another Buffyverse show. One with Spike as the main character would be especially awesome. I wouldnt even care if the name Buffy was ever said either.
Faith, Spike, and Oz.

That is all.

[marshal99]

Purely speculation on my part but I'm basing this off stories about the end of Buffy and comments I've seen by other actors from the show.

SMG was extremely divaish on the show and basically had the diva "I'm better than you" attitude. In addition she very much did not want to continue on Buffy and was quite happy when it ended. SMG did not attend the wrap party for the series because she was filming The Grudge at the time. Quite a few regular cast members were said to have said they were happy that SMG wasn't there to ruin the party.

Basically I think SMG was a stuck up snob who didn't want to do something she felt was beneath her like interviews or commentaries. She wanted to stay as far away from Buffy as she contractually could.

The joke was on SMG though since Angel showed that Buffyverse could thrive without Buffy and I think fans would gladly accept a future series sans Buffy.

I don't think that's strictly true . She wanted to go do movies and not be typecasted as "Buffy" , and you can't blame her for that. She gave 7 years to the show and it was time for her to move on.
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,422783~3~0~sarahmichellegellarwhy,00.html

[SnowTrooper]

I don't think that's strictly true . She wanted to go do movies and not be typecasted as "Buffy" , and you can't blame her for that. She gave 7 years to the show and it was time for her to move on.
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,422783~3~0~sarahmichellegellarwhy,00.html

She really hasnt done all that much since Buffy ended. Besides Scooby and The Grude and a couple other movies I cant remember she really hasnt done a whole lot since Buffy ended. I think she and Joss Whedon should do a Buffy movie, that would be sweet.

[BoosterBronze]

Faith, Spike, and Oz.

That is all.


Spike, Andrew, Gunn.

Living in a wacky bachelor pad, fighting monsters.

[Chiasm]

Here is my realistic future cast of a Buffy show. This isn't a wishlist as I'm also taking into consideration how likely an actor / actress is to sign on to do the new show. Thus SMG and David Boreanaz are out. Alyson Hannigan has said she would do a movie but I imagine a series would be out for her as well given her role on HIMYM. Seth Green probably won't do anything more than maybe a guest spot either.

Illyria - Amy Acker's career hasn't exactly taken off so she'll probably do it.

Spike - James Marsters has said many times he'd do another series.

Xander - Nicholas Brendan. I saw him playing a gay character in some show one night flipping through channels. And in some cheesy Sci-Fi movei of the week. Oh yeah, he's up for it.

Wesley - Alexis Denisoff. Other than being Mr Alyson Hannigan I've seen / heard of nothing he's done. He died a mystical death so Scruffy Wesley can and will return.

Now throw in some new slayer and we're set.

[Ryan Day]

He died a mystical death so Scruffy Wesley can and will return.

He got stabbed with a knife. The fact it was a wizard holding the knife doesn't make it a mystical death.

[tangentman]

I'm one of the four Buffy fans in the world that absolutely hated The Body.

It was a good episode for about ten minutes. Then the Scoobies showed up and ruined it, particularly Anya who is a character I never ever liked and especially hated in this episode.

I strongly disagree with you, Chiasm! I think the Scoobies helped maintain the emotional gravity of the episode. Willow's compelling need to hold everything together, Xander's frustration, Anya's confusion, Giles' silent grief and strength, Tara's empathy all showed the far-reaching impact a death has on a tight social circle like Buffy's family-of-choice. By Season 5, the Scoobies were beyond "monster-hunting troupe" and very much a family.

Most of the group came from dysfunctional families and Joyce was a warm mother-figure who showed them that family can be fun, nurturing, and unconditionally accepting. Naturally, her death would emotionally impact Buffy and Dawn's friends, too. Seeing their reactions also gave us insight into their characters. We see Anya's fear of mortality because it doesn't play by the human--instead of demon--rules. Willow wants to be a pillar of strength, and reaches out for her new source of support: Tara. Speaking of Tara, we gain insight into her past and also see the progression from "shy girlfriend" to "calming, emotional center of the Scoobies".


I felt moved by the scenes where the Scoobies appeared. Without them, the episode would've sank to a level of despair which might have felt more crushing than the oft-perceived Season 6.



And the end of the episode was so entirely lame. This episode would have bee much better without the vampire in the morgue. Just let the whole thing be about Joyce's death and leave the monsters out it for an episode.

IIRC, Joss Whedon personally said they included the vampire because at least one was contractually required by the WB to appear in every episode. It wasn't his first choice, but an obligation that necessitated the morgue vamp.

[SnowTrooper]

He got stabbed with a knife. The fact it was a wizard holding the knife doesn't make it a mystical death.

They could always find a way for bring Wesley back though. Either by Willow ressurecting him or maybe there was a clause in his Wolfram & Hart contract like Lilah's where they still owned him after death. All you need there is a spell by Willow and bam hes ready to fight evil and it only took up like 5 minutes of movie time.

[Patient Boy]

For anybody who's interested, Tom Lenk has a small role in the live-action Transformers movie. It might not be enough of an incentive to catch it though, since his character is apparently nameless and has few lines.

[Testament_X]

They could always find a way for bring Wesley back though. Either by Willow ressurecting him or maybe there was a clause in his Wolfram & Hart contract like Lilah's where they still owned him after death. All you need there is a spell by Willow and bam hes ready to fight evil and it only took up like 5 minutes of movie time.

Since many of the characters seem to represent a certain monster persona, maybe he could be revived and fill the much needed role of a Zombie character. There could be ways to make him more normal but also he should have times where he loses conciousness to zombie like impulses and is just acting crazy at inopportune times.

[tangentman]

Here's a "Casting Call" challenge for Buffy fans: What if BtVS was cast today? Share your picks for the best actor to play each character:

Buffy
Giles
Xander
Willow
Cordelia
Angel
Joyce
Oz
Faith
Anya
Wesley
Riley
Tara


I'm stopping with Season 4, so keep the first 4 years in mind when casting!

[Chiasm]

Here's a "Casting Call" challenge for Buffy fans: What if BtVS was cast today? Share your picks for the best actor to play each character:

Buffy
Giles
Xander
Willow
Cordelia
Angel
Joyce
Oz
Faith
Anya
Wesley
Riley
Tara


I'm stopping with Season 4, so keep the first 4 years in mind when casting!

Tough because many of them were near perfect casting. And I don't know enough young stars to really pick the kids.

But the first person I thought of when I thought of a recast Giles was Clive Owen. He's British and old enough.

[Nick Kal]

Man, I'd never want to recast, but if I had to, I would probably go with a lot of unknowns.

[MikeVic]

Hey all,

I can't find the non-spoiler thread I created awhile ago... so I thought I'd ask my question here without reading any of the thread.

I'm currently on season 6 of Buffy, and season 3 of Angel. In the last episode of Buffy, it seemed like the Buffy we know is just some different personality of the "real" Buffy. And the real Buffy is in a mental institute. The doctor even says something about "last summer" her being a lot better, which to me referred to when she was in heaven. The episode ends with the "real" Buffy going into a deep catatonic state that the doctor said she can't get out of.

The episode also referred to other aspects of the show that makes it seem like it really is just the "real" Buffy's imagination. I asked a friend about this (who's watched the series before), since it seemed like a huge turn in the story. But he says he does't think they go anywhere with it.

I don't want to be spoiled with anything in the rest of the series... but I was wondering if this revelation was meant to be taken in any seriousness?

[Ryan K]

Hey all,

I can't find the non-spoiler thread I created awhile ago... so I thought I'd ask my question here without reading any of the thread.

I'm currently on season 6 of Buffy, and season 3 of Angel. In the last episode of Buffy, it seemed like the Buffy we know is just some different personality of the "real" Buffy. And the real Buffy is in a mental institute. The doctor even says something about "last summer" her being a lot better, which to me referred to when she was in heaven. The episode ends with the "real" Buffy going into a deep catatonic state that the doctor said she can't get out of.

The episode also referred to other aspects of the show that makes it seem like it really is just the "real" Buffy's imagination. I asked a friend about this (who's watched the series before), since it seemed like a huge turn in the story. But he says he does't think they go anywhere with it.

I don't want to be spoiled with anything in the rest of the series... but I was wondering if this revelation was meant to be taken in any seriousness?

It's ambiguous. You make your own conclusions.

[marshal99]

That episode was just one-off "imaginary" episode that blurs the line between what's real and what's not. There was no ramifications from that episode as far as i can remember. It was intended to make you wonder.
Smallville also did a similiar episode.

[MikeVic]

Ah, thanks!

I guess for it to make sense, the entire Angel show would have to be part of Buffy's mind too. So there's my reason for it falling apart. :)

[SnowTrooper]

I was watching season 5 on Angel the other day on DVD and I noticed something that I hadnt noticed bofore even though I've see the episode like 5 times.

At the end of the first episode when Spike regenerates in Angel's office he is first recognized by Wesley. But I dont ever remember Spike and Wesley meeting before. Have they ever crossed paths in Sunnydale or L.A.?

[Scorpion13]

I was watching season 5 on Angel the other day on DVD and I noticed something that I hadnt noticed bofore even though I've see the episode like 5 times.

At the end of the first episode when Spike regenerates in Angel's office he is first recognized by Wesley. But I dont ever remember Spike and Wesley meeting before. Have they ever crossed paths in Sunnydale or L.A.?

I would think Wesley would recognize him simply from Spike being one of the most prolific vampires of the 20th century, what with him killing 2 Slayers.

[SnowTrooper]

I would think Wesley would recognize him simply from Spike being one of the most prolific vampires of the 20th century, what with him killing 2 Slayers.

Thats what I figured, just wondering if they had ever met before or not.

[Legato]

I would think Wesley would recognize him simply from Spike being one of the most prolific vampires of the 20th century, what with him killing 2 Slayers.

Thats what I figured out. I mean a vampire being able to kill two Slayers could make that vampire pretty infamous amongst the Watchers.

[MikeVic]

Ok, so I'm trying to post in here without reading any spoilers. :)

I finished watching season 6 of Buffy last night. Is it just me, or did anyone notice that they say "bitch" a lot in the last few episodes of the season?

[MikeVic]

Oh, and also...

I see there is a "Buffy the Vampire Slayer Omnibus Volume 1" book that is out. Do these volumes contain the seasons in comic form? Or do they contain stories not in the show?

[Ryan Day]

Thats what I figured out. I mean a vampire being able to kill two Slayers could make that vampire pretty infamous amongst the Watchers.

There's also the Watcher in Checkpoint who said she did her thesis on Spike. So we can assume he's reasonably well-known.

[NDHorse]

Oh, and also...

I see there is a "Buffy the Vampire Slayer Omnibus Volume 1" book that is out. Do these volumes contain the seasons in comic form? Or do they contain stories not in the show?

They are collecting the Buffy comic book series that was published at the same time as the show aired. The stories are originals. The omnibuses are collecting the comics in chronological order, not publishing order, so the first omnibus has the issues from the end of the series that were in a sense "Year One" stories.

[MikeVic]

They are collecting the Buffy comic book series that was published at the same time as the show aired. The stories are originals. The omnibuses are collecting the comics in chronological order, not publishing order, so the first omnibus has the issues from the end of the series that were in a sense "Year One" stories.

Awesome! I'll have to pick this up.

[SnowTrooper]

There's also the Watcher in Checkpoint who said she did her thesis on Spike. So we can assume he's reasonably well-known.

There is actually a fan-fic thesis on the internet based on that Watchers thesis. Its very long and very well written, the whole thing is about Spike, its actually a pretty cool read.

http://www.channelingboards.com/SpikeThesis/index.html

[NDHorse]

They are collecting the Buffy comic book series that was published at the same time as the show aired. The stories are originals. The omnibuses are collecting the comics in chronological order, not publishing order, so the first omnibus has the issues from the end of the series that were in a sense "Year One" stories.

I correct myself. The first omnibus is actually stories that happened before the series began. The second omnibus will have stories that will coincide with the first or second season of the TV series.

[beetlebum]

You mean there are people here at CBR that actually like Buffy?:confused: :confused: :confused: This is a shocking revelation. An epiphany . I have alway liked Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I've loved it since season one, though I will admit that season was awkward, and was not very good. it was more of a testing ground of sorts.Season Two was the best. I particularly loved the episodes before Angel became Angelus when there was a prospect of a real relationship. I think Season 5 is when it all began to change. Joyce dying was all manic depressy. Season 6 was really weird. I actually considered sending Joss Whedon Valium. Seriously Season 6 was like Pink Floyd's the dark side of the moon for me. Great experiment, but not my thing.By the time Season 7 came around that show was ready to be canceled. It needed to go. I have an emotional attachment to Buffy. It brings back warm memories of watching that show while talking on the phone to my friends, or online in chat rooms. I remember watching it at slumber parties and bringing taped copies to school to give to my friend who missed it because she had cheerleading practice. I have yet to buy my first copy of Season 8. Look forward to reading it. It's things like this that keep Buffy alive in our hearts and minds as it should be. I will also keep getting myself in trouble on behalf of Buffy as well:p . That's a given.

[MikeVic]

I just finished watching all seven seasons of Buffy, and the first four of Angel.

For Buffy, my favourite season probably has to be season 5. I liked it beginning to end. I hated the beginning of season 4. My favourite Buffy characters were Spike, Anya, and Faith. It really sucks that Anya died in the last episode!! I was going to read the season eight comics, and now they won't have Anya. :(

Anyway, a very good series. Not sure what to think of the series finale though. Kind of left it open...

[Johnny_Luck]

Favorite Characters from Buffy

Faith, Kennedy, Xander, Andrew, Cordy, Giles



Favorite Angel Characters

Cordy, Harmony, Lorne, Lindsey, Doyle, and Wesley



Best Season of Buffy-3
Worst Season -4

Best Season of Angel -5
Worst-3


Order of Favs

Buffy: 3,7,2,1,6,5,4
Angel: 5,2,1,4,3

[SnowTrooper]

Yeah Buffy and Angel are both awesome shows, I've been watching the reruns of both in the morning.

Heck, just a few minutes ago I was watching clips from "Once More, With Feeling", which is just a fantastic episode.

My favorite character from Buffy is Spike, my favorite from Angel is Wesley. There both cool as hell.

[MikeVic]

Yeah Buffy and Angel are both awesome shows, I've been watching the reruns of both in the morning.

Heck, just a few minutes ago I was watching clips from "Once More, With Feeling", which is just a fantastic episode.

My favorite character from Buffy is Spike, my favorite from Angel is Wesley. There both cool as hell.

Which episode is that?

[SnowTrooper]

Which episode is that?

"Once More, With Feeling" is the musical episode from the 6th season of Buffy. Alot of people(myself included) think that the episode got cheated out of an emmy.

[MikeVic]

"Once More, With Feeling" is the musical episode from the 6th season of Buffy. Alot of people(myself included) think that the episode got cheated out of an emmy.

Ah yeah, that ep was very very good. Not just for the singing, but they revealed important stuff in it too!

[Chiasm]

Anyway, a very good series. Not sure what to think of the series finale though. Kind of left it open...

Be forewarned then. You may really not like the finale of Angel. It redefines the concept of leaving something open but I won't say more lest you be spoiled other than to say its finale is one of those love it or hate things with little inbetween.

[Outsider]

Angel and Buffy have become my two favorite all-time television shows. I started watching them on reruns a few years ago, as I had missed most of it when it originally ran due to work and other things going on in my life.

Buffy's best season was Season 2. It had the best arc with the Angelus turn and the traingle with him, Spike, and Dru. Season 3 was not bad either, but the show started to go downhill for me when the gang moved to college and met Riley Finn in Season 4. I'm also not a huge fan of Season 6, aside from "Once More, With Feeling", "Tabula Rasa", and a couple others. And despite many on the internet not liking Season 7, I actually really enjoyed it, Spike with a soul and the build to the finale. Plus Dawn stopped screaming as much.

Angel really started to get good in Season 2 after an OK but not great first season. Season 3 I also enjoyed and Season 4 for the most part, except for Jasmine. Not really a big fan of that arc. Season 5 is my absolute favorite season of the Buffyverse. The Wolfram and Hart setting and seeing Spike And Angel work together and annoy the hell out of each other, a lot of brilliance within.

[jwd]

I loved the Angel series finale. I thought it went perfect with the whole redemption angle. All during the season he's trying to find redemption and in the end he realizes its not about finding it. Its about always striving for it and doing what's right.

[marshal99]

Here's something different

Amber Benson singing a bit offkey and Anthony stewart Head as a transvestite in the rocky horror picture show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo5LAqjEU_w

[The Punished]

I just recently finished my DVD collection of all seasons for Angel. I have yet to sit down and watch them but I can honestly say I have seen 98-99% of the episodes of Angel on TNT in the morning times when I was checking Buffy on FX at the same time. I liked Angel better than Buffy but thought the females on Buffy were much more hotter, 'cept Season 3 Cordelia on Angel.

[SnowTrooper]

Spoiler for "Angel: After the Fall" season 6 comic-book.

Dont click unless you want to be spoiled.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=335358&blogID=307040752

[Chiasm]

Here's something different

Amber Benson singing a bit offkey and Anthony stewart Head as a transvestite in the rocky horror picture show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo5LAqjEU_w

I'll never be able to look at Giles the same way again. :eek:

[Chiasm]

There is actually a fan-fic thesis on the internet based on that Watchers thesis. Its very long and very well written, the whole thing is about Spike, its actually a pretty cool read.

http://www.channelingboards.com/SpikeThesis/index.html

Never mind. I misjudged it by picking a spot at random and jumping to the wrong conclusion. Its an excellent piece of work.

[SnowTrooper]

I just now went and looked at part of this. I didn't read much after I saw at least one glaring error in it. I don't know when this "thesis" was written but the part I read said Spike was sired by Angelus in the 1700's. But we know from various episodes that it was Drusilla of course who sired him and much later than the 1700's (late 1800's if memory serves).

The whole thesis is told from the point of view of a Watcher. A Watcher that is doing a report on Spike from eyewitness accounts, diaries/letters from various people, and specualtion. It later goes on to say that William the Bloody was most likely sired in the late 1800's by Drusilla, not Angelus.

Its told by a character in the Buffyverse that didnt see Spike's origins like the viewers at home did. Most of the inaccurate stuff is later corrected. It really is a decent read.

[Chiasm]

The whole thesis is told from the point of view of a Watcher. A Watcher that is doing a report on Spike from eyewitness accounts, diaries/letters from various people, and specualtion. It later goes on to say that William the Bloody was most likely sired in the late 1800's by Drusilla, not Angelus.

Its told by a character in the Buffyverse that didnt see Spike's origins like the viewers at home did. Most of the inaccurate stuff is later corrected. It really is a decent read.

Oh, okay then I guess I judged it too soon. Maybe I will give it a try. I just picked a part at random and that was where I ended up.

Edit. Your right. This is a good read with a lot of work put into it. I was wrong as well about why I criticized it.

I liked how they slipped Fox Mulder and Dana Scully into the whole thing in a logical way.

[Zacharius]

In BTVS, Xander did not have much to do.

Did Joss originally intend Xander as anything else than arcless token guy ?

[StoneGold]

I believe the term is "comic relief sidekick."

[GRANT!]

In BTVS, Xander did not have much to do.

Um he did a lot...

Some of the major highlights.

-Saved Buffy's life after the Master drowned her.
-Organize the Sunnydale High School graduating class into effective giant snake slaying team
-Talked to Dark Willow and convinced her that destroying the world was not a good idea.
-Fixed the windows in the Summers home after everytime a monster barged in and wrecked havoc.

[Deathstroke]

Um he did a lot...

Some of the major highlights.

-Saved Buffy's life after the Master drowned her.
-Organize the Sunnydale High School graduating class into effective giant snake slaying team
-Talked to Dark Willow and convinced her that destroying the world was not a good idea.
-Fixed the windows in the Summers home after everytime a monster barged in and wrecked havoc.

And don't forget boinking Cordelia, Faith, and Anya. For a goofy and not well liked geek in high school, he certainly had a legendary romantic dance card.

[Yellowjacket]

Except he never boinked Cordelia. Just dated her for about a year.

[xnef1025]

He also:
got possessed by the evil spirt of a hyena
helped solve the mystery of the dying swimming team
was the only person other than Buffy that didn't get taken over by the
Bezoar eggs
had run-ins with multiple female monsters that wanted to date with, mate
with, and/or kill him
stopped a crazy zombie gang from blowing up the school
and in Buffy Season 8 comics, he's in charge of monitoring for supernatural
disturbances to send Slayer teams to handle.

[NDHorse]

There is a great touching scene in season 7 with Dawn where he tell her what it is like to be the one without any special abilities. He just the background guy who watches what everyone else does. But because of that, he really sees who people truly are when they don't think anyone is watching. It's a great scene.

[marshal99]

There is a great touching scene in season 7 with Dawn where he tell her what it is like to be the one without any special abilities. He just the background guy who watches what everyone else does. But because of that, he really sees who people truly are when they don't think anyone is watching. It's a great scene.

And hence why Caleb poke his eye out.

[StoneGold]

He's also the guy who sums up all the dense expositionary stuff up for the audience in human speak. Don't confuse not having super powers for not having a strong narrative role.

[Chiasm]

Xander's role was summed up perfectly in the awesome episode The Zeppo from season III. This also happens to be the first episode of Buffy I ever saw.

Xander is the guy who doesn't have the powers, doesn't have the skills, and doesn't get the glory. Not even when he saves the world while boinking Faith in the process. Yet without him the world would be doomed.

[Patient Boy]

Xander's role was summed up perfectly in the awesome episode The Zeppo from season III. This also happens to be the first episode of Buffy I ever saw.

Xander is the guy who doesn't have the powers, doesn't have the skills, and doesn't get the glory. Not even when he saves the world while boinking Faith in the process.

The Zeppo is one of the finest episodes of Buffy. I laughed out loud the first time I saw Xander getting kicked out by Faith.

[mindcrime]

yeah, i thought the buffy series was ok. i thought angel was a better all-around show. any angel fans out there?

[hugh45]

Did anyone think that in the final battle,Dawn,in comic book like fashion
was going to discover who she really was and save the day?

[marshal99]

yeah, i thought the buffy series was ok. i thought angel was a better all-around show. any angel fans out there?

Season 5 was good but otherwise , i wouldn't say that Angel was a better all-around show . Season 1 was decent enough with some stand out episodes with a explosive finale. Season 2 was mediocre and directionless with a lackluste finale in that other dimension (only good thing that came out of that finale is Amy Acker aka Fred) , season 3 with baby conner/teenage conner & holtz storyline was just kind of bleh , season 4 again with conner the annoying brat was okay , annoying conner drag the whole season down , anything with him and preggers cordy was ugh , the bit with the beast , angelus , faith & willow was good , the jasmine bit not so good.
Season 5 was easily the best.

[rondre sleazde]

Season 4=season 5 of angel

I say this because Season 4 had Angelues, Faith, Badazz Wes, Willow, the beast and Angelues was just funny as hell.

Season 5 had Spike I hated that he was a ghost for so long.

S5 and S4 are equal to me.

[Ryan Day]

Oooh, controversy!


Season 1 was decent enough with some stand out episodes with a explosive finale.

"I Will Remember You" and "Five By Five" are both fantastic episodes, and "Sanctuary" is pretty good, too. Granted, they make use of the pre-existing Buffy stories, but still. I think "Blind Date" is pretty great, too.


Season 2 was mediocre and directionless with a lackluste finale in that other dimension

Season 2 has a very clear direction, and is maybe the closest the show gets to its theme of redemption. The Darla & Drusilla arc is great, and the mid-season finale in "Reunion" is brilliant.

And maybe it's just me, but I love the Pylea story. I shouldn't, it's pretty silly and shouldn't work, but it's just so good.

[Enigmanaut]

Season 4=season 5 of angel

I say this because Season 4 had Angelues, Faith, Badazz Wes, Willow, the beast and Angelues was just funny as hell.

Season 5 had Spike I hated that he was a ghost for so long.

S5 and S4 are equal to me.

He was a ghost for 6 episodes.

[marshal99]

Oooh, controversy!
"I Will Remember You" and "Five By Five" are both fantastic episodes, and "Sanctuary" is pretty good, too. Granted, they make use of the pre-existing Buffy stories, but still. I think "Blind Date" is pretty great, too.

Those were great episodes , anything with Faith is always good but like i said , it had some stand out episodes but overall , season 1 was about setting up wolfram & hart as the long term nemesis for angel.



Season 2 has a very clear direction, and is maybe the closest the show gets to its theme of redemption. The Darla & Drusilla arc is great, and the mid-season finale in "Reunion" is brilliant.
And maybe it's just me, but I love the Pylea story. I shouldn't, it's pretty silly and shouldn't work, but it's just so good.

The darla thing didn't work for me , neither did Drusilla. I found the Drusilla pairing up with Spike to be much better than the 2 vamps of Drusilla & Darla. Angel just set them on fire and run them out of town and that's it ? What a letdown.
The Pylea saga feels like a throwaway episode that is 2-3 episodes too long and it is and it should have been in the middle of the season instead of the end. Where's the epic ? Where's the end of season action finale with the big bad ?!? Season 2 was just dissapointing to say the least.

[mindcrime]

Those were great episodes , anything with Faith is always good but like i said , it had some stand out episodes but overall , season 1 was about setting up wolfram & hart as the long term nemesis for angel.



The darla thing didn't work for me , neither did Drusilla. I found the Drusilla pairing up with Spike to be much better than the 2 vamps of Drusilla & Darla. Angel just set them on fire and run them out of town and that's it ? What a letdown.
The Pylea saga feels like a throwaway episode that is 2-3 episodes too long and it is and it should have been in the middle of the season instead of the end. Where's the epic ? Where's the end of season action finale with the big bad ?!? Season 2 was just dissapointing to say the least.





well seasons 4 & 5 are the best in my opinion ( i own them all on dvd). 4 because of angelus (love it when angel turns evil ), & 5 because there were just alot of good stories. im picking up the new angel comic series in a couple of weeks, its actually season six, it picks up where season 5 left off, & i cant wait to see how the hell they could have survived the battle at the end of season 5.

[saintsaucey]

Im letting my friend from work borrow my seasons of buffy, he just watched the seasons of angel. its really fun to see him react to things that happened years ago. the angel finalle annoys the piss out of him and the buffy one probably will as well just for the completely oppisate reason

[xnef1025]

The Buffy ties were what caused them to use Pylea as the S2 finale arc. If Angel had been in LA when the final confrontation with Glory went down, he may have heard about it somehow and been there which could have been enough to prevent Buffy's death.

Pylea allows Angel to be safely out of the way during the big fight on Buffy and also gives the season a happy(er) ending than Buffy. It allowed them to change up the emotions of the evening at a time when the shows were airing back-to-back.

[marshal99]

The Buffy ties were what caused them to use Pylea as the S2 finale arc. If Angel had been in LA when the final confrontation with Glory went down, he may have heard about it somehow and been there which could have been enough to prevent Buffy's death.

Pylea allows Angel to be safely out of the way during the big fight on Buffy and also gives the season a happy(er) ending than Buffy. It allowed them to change up the emotions of the evening at a time when the shows were airing back-to-back.

Still , the thing is Angel season 2 has no big bad , no powerful villain that runs the course of the season except for some annoyance from wolfram & hart , Darla & Drusilla were hardly menacing and the whole season is hardly that memorable at all.
For that same reason , i find holtz & sarjah (or whatever his name is) in season 3 to be boring villains.

[Duy]

Still , the thing is Angel season 2 has no big bad , no powerful villain that runs the course of the season except for some annoyance from wolfram & hart , Darla & Drusilla were hardly menacing and the whole season is hardly that memorable at all.
For that same reason , i find holtz & sarjah (or whatever his name is) in season 3 to be boring villains.

Are you kidding? Angel Season 2 was awesome. It was Angel's descent into darkness. There was no big bad because Angel's inner self was the big bad.

Agreed about Holtz though. What a bad villain.

[marshal99]

Are you kidding? Angel Season 2 was awesome. It was Angel's descent into darkness. There was no big bad because Angel's inner self was the big bad.


It wasn't such a big deal , Angel didn't lose his soul after sleeping with Darla - big whoop ! So he's a moping cranky miserable vampire , nothing new there - as has been shown , he was that way for a 100 years before he found his calling.

[Duy]

It wasn't such a big deal , Angel didn't lose his soul after sleeping with Darla - big whoop ! So he's a moping cranky miserable vampire , nothing new there - as has been shown , he was that way for a 100 years before he found his calling.
So you'd rather he did lose his soul and we retread an old plotline?

[marshal99]

So you'd rather he did lose his soul and we retread an old plotline?

It wasn't that big of a deal , for me , season 2 like i said was bleh for me. Darla & Drusilla does nothing for me and Pylea - ugh ! Like i said , the only good thing that came from season 2 was Fred.

[Ilash]

Aside for season 5, I also don't really get why people consider Angel better than Buffy.

Season 1 - Some excellent episodes but on the whole the show was very much finding its feet.

Season 2 - Really good first half but the Drusilla/ Darla situation wasn't dealt with all that well and I really wasn't mad about the Pylea arc (aside for the intro of Fred)

Season 3 - I'm watching reruns of this right now and while it is a solid enough season, few of the episodes really stand out for me. And yes, Holtz was little more than OK.

Season 4 - Loads of good in this season, which is why it is easily my second favourite but evil Cordy was laughably bad as a villain and Connor was incredibly annoying almost throughout.

Season 5 - Tons of great episodes (Smile Time, Not Fade Away and the death of Fred arc, especially) and very few weak episodes make it easily the best season of them all. And Spike was way more entertaining here than he was in the later seasons of Buffy.

[marshal99]

Aside for season 5, I also don't really get why people consider Angel better than Buffy.

Season 1 - Some excellent episodes but on the whole the show was very much finding its feet.

Season 2 - Really good first half but the Drusilla/ Darla situation wasn't dealt with all that well and I really wasn't mad about the Pylea arc (aside for the intro of Fred)

Season 3 - I'm watching reruns of this right now and while it is a solid enough season, few of the episodes really stand out for me. And yes, Holtz was little more than OK.

Season 4 - Loads of good in this season, which is why it is easily my second favourite but evil Cordy was laughably bad as a villain and Connor was incredibly annoying almost throughout.

Season 5 - Tons of great episodes (Smile Time, Not Fade Away and the death of Fred arc, especially) and very few weak episodes make it easily the best season of them all. And Spike was way more entertaining here than he was in the later seasons of Buffy.

Finally , someone who shares almost the same opinion as me. Conners was annoying but i think Angel season 4 suffers the same problem as Buffy season 7 , which were running concurrently - too many plot devices for both series at the end of it .

[Ilash]

Finally , someone who shares almost the same opinion as me. Conners was annoying but i think Angel season 4 suffers the same problem as Buffy season 7 , which were running concurrently - too many plot devices for both series at the end of it .

Yeah but my biggest problem with season 7 was that the overall plot didn't seem to be that well thought out. Having the First being little more than a non-corporeal pain in the ass was a BIG problem for me. Fortunately, there were enough really good episodes to save the last season of Buffy.

[mindcrime]

so, anyone picking up this comic series besides me?

[Ilash]

so, anyone picking up this comic series besides me?

Well, considering that it came in at number 7 in the latest sales reports, I'm going to guess yes. As for me, yup, I'm reading it and loving the hell out of it.

[Deathstroke]

so, anyone picking up this comic series besides me?

I'll be picking it up yes.

[Deep_Sleeper]

I wish the art on the Angel comics were better than they are. I love the Angel show, much better than Buffy.

Kind of hurts to see the art isn't as good as the Buffy comics. I am reading Buffy right now. It's pretty good.

[mindcrime]

Well, considering that it came in at number 7 in the latest sales reports, I'm going to guess yes. As for me, yup, I'm reading it and loving the hell out of it.





you mean its out all ready? i thought it wasnt supposed to come out till the end of the month. we are talking about angel: after the fall, right?

[saintsaucey]

they were probably thinking of buffy season eight angel comes out tomorrow according to the guy at the comic store. i am so excited for it

[Enigmanaut]

Y'know... I was watching some Season 6 episodes recently, while drawing. Andrew went off on some really lame geektoid rant, and I was laughing at him and shaking my head at his nerdness... then I realized "I'm drawing a picture of Annihilus while watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer on DVD." I felt sad then.

[Duy]

Y'know... I was watching some Season 6 episodes recently, while drawing. Andrew went off on some really lame geektoid rant, and I was laughing at him and shaking my head at his nerdness... then I realized "I'm drawing a picture of Annihilus while watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer on DVD." I felt sad then.
But the good kind of sad, right?

[Blueferret]

Y'know... I was watching some Season 6 episodes recently, while drawing. Andrew went off on some really lame geektoid rant, and I was laughing at him and shaking my head at his nerdness... then I realized "I'm drawing a picture of Annihilus while watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer on DVD." I felt sad then.

When you worry about whether or not there's an exhaust port to identify which Death Star is painted on your van, then you should be concerned.:D

[Ryan Day]

I say this because Season 4 had Angelues, Faith, Badazz Wes, Willow, the beast and Angelues was just funny as hell.


I really like Season 4 - it's probably my favourite - but Angelus bugs me. He never actually does anything. In Buffy, when he lost his soul, he was evil and vicious. In Angel, he's just kind of annoying. He has a few moments, but generally he just goes around making fun of people; he doesn't even kill an innocent, anonymous bystander.

[Blueferret]

I really like Season 4 - it's probably my favourite - but Angelus bugs me. He never actually does anything. In Buffy, when he lost his soul, he was evil and vicious. In Angel, he's just kind of annoying. He has a few moments, but generally he just goes around making fun of people; he doesn't even kill an innocent, anonymous bystander.

No, but he snapped Lila's neck right in front of Wes. That was pretty hardcore when you consider the amount of shit these people put each other through and still managed to stay together after so much, particularly Angel and Wes. Like someone posted earlier, the scariest person in the Buffy Universe is scruffy Wes.

[SnowTrooper]

I really like Season 4 - it's probably my favourite - but Angelus bugs me. He never actually does anything. In Buffy, when he lost his soul, he was evil and vicious. In Angel, he's just kind of annoying. He has a few moments, but generally he just goes around making fun of people; he doesn't even kill an innocent, anonymous bystander.

I agree that Angelus in "Angel" was missing his viciousness that he had in Buffy, but I thought he was great at getting under the Fang Gangs skin. One line of his that especially creeped me out was when he threatened to rape Fred to death, that was awesomely evil.

I geuss the writers didnt want Angelus to go around slaughtering innocent people because it would make Angel look more like a villian. It was ok in Buffy because he wasnt the central character, but apparently its not cool to do on his own show.

[marshal99]

Not really , when Angelus managed to escape from his cell , he couldn't find any fresh blood out on the town since at the time , the entire city was shrouded in darkness because of the eclipse and in chaos since all the other creatures of the night were out in force. Hence why he doubled back and tried to kill the others back in the hotel.
He probably would have killed Faith if it wasn't for the fact that she drugged herself first and her blood was tainted.

[kalorama]

No, but he snapped Lila's neck right in front of Wes.

When? Lila was killed by Cordelia when she was inhabited by Jasmine. Wes was nowhere around (although Wes and the others did come upon Angelus feeding on Lila's body afterward).

He snapped Jenny Calendar's (Giles's girlfriend) neck in Buffy, but Giles wasn't around either.

[mindcrime]

When? Lila was killed by Cordelia when she was inhabited by Jasmine. Wes was nowhere around (although Wes and the others did come upon Angelus feeding on Lila's body afterward).

He snapped Jenny Calendar's (Giles's girlfriend) neck in Buffy, but Giles wasn't around either.




yeah, i own the whole series & watched season 4 alot. angelus feeds on lila after cordy kills her, im pretty sure he doesnt snap her neck though. & the part when angelus says he wants to rape fred, pure evil & creepy.:evilsmile

[Blueferret]

When? Lila was killed by Cordelia when she was inhabited by Jasmine. Wes was nowhere around (although Wes and the others did come upon Angelus feeding on Lila's body afterward).

He snapped Jenny Calendar's (Giles's girlfriend) neck in Buffy, but Giles wasn't around either.

My bad. I don't know what I was thinking. I thought that happened for some reason.

[tangentman]

He probably would have killed Faith if it wasn't for the fact that she drugged herself first and her blood was tainted.

Angelus' edge over Faith came largely because she drugged herself early in the fight. She needed a means of capturing her temporarily insane friend without killing him. Orpheus, the drug in question, provided the means. Otherwise, Faith would have been forced to kill Angelus.

[marshal99]

Could Faith take Angelus ? I'm not so sure , they were fairly even in terms of fighting abilities. It could easily go either way if it ever comes down to it.

[Duy]

Faith's stronger than Angelus, but she's got too many insecurities that it'd be so easy for him to get under her skin.

[Nate Grey]

I know this is hard to gauge, but speaking of Faith vs Angelus, I always assumed vamps were in the 1 ton range, MAYE 2 ton, but slayers were at least 3-5 tons. I remember this one time Buffy lifted a steel girder like it weighed as much as a crowbar.

Angel after biting Hamilton may be closer to slayer strength, but I always assumed that would wear off anyway.

[mindcrime]

Faith's stronger than Angelus, but she's got too many insecurities that it'd be so easy for him to get under her skin.





i agree. as long as angelus can get in her head, he has a big advantage.:evilsmile

[tangentman]

Faith went into the fight knowing Angelus' bag of tricks. It wasn't like Season 2 Buffy, where he had the advantage of shocking everyone with his manipulative brand of evil. Also, Faith put up a helluva fight against Angelus despite being drugged for most of it. At her worst, she still held her own against Angelus.

[marshal99]

Was good to see Eliza Dushku in the latest episode of Ugly Betty. She actually looked better than when she was on tru calling.

[Mormel]

I have a question for the Buffy fans: what does everyone think of Oz? I liked it when Seth Green was introduced in season 2, but when Oz finally became part of the main cast as of season 3, I felt they kept him on the bench FAR too often. He'd usually show up at the end of the episode, with a comment like 'Huh. Looks like I missed a whole lot.' I wish they would have let him interact with all the other main Scoobies a lot more, and have him patrol with them more. His dry comments weren't enough to endear him to me in season 3, even though most people thought Oz was cool. In my opinion, Oz's most glorious moments were in 'Wild At Heart' and 'New Moon Rising'; and I also thought Green provided his best acting in these episodes.

What are your opinions on Oz's role in Buffy?

[Ryan K]

I have a question for the Buffy fans: what does everyone think of Oz? I liked it when Seth Green was introduced in season 2, but when Oz finally became part of the main cast as of season 3, I felt they kept him on the bench FAR too often. He'd usually show up at the end of the episode, with a comment like 'Huh. Looks like I missed a whole lot.' I wish they would have let him interact with all the other main Scoobies a lot more, and have him patrol with them more. His dry comments weren't enough to endear him to me in season 3, even though most people thought Oz was cool. In my opinion, Oz's most glorious moments were in 'Wild At Heart' and 'New Moon Rising'; and I also thought Green provided his best acting in these episodes.

What are your opinions on Oz's role in Buffy?

I like Oz. He's a big reason Season 3 is my favorite. I think the show lost a lot with the loss of him, Cordelia, and Angel basically all at once. I loved the Oz/Willow relationship and I loved that he had a distinct humor just like all the other characters did.

As for him popping up at the end of episodes (and I believe he's actually absent from a couple in S3), if I remember correctly that was due to Green's committments outside the show and not because writers didn't use him adequately or anything. Green's always had his hand in numerous cookie jars and at some point its why he left the series. I wish that weren't the case but at the same time I can't imagine anyone other than Green playing him.

[Mormel]

As for him popping up at the end of episodes (and I believe he's actually absent from a couple in S3), if I remember correctly that was due to Green's committments outside the show and not because writers didn't use him adequately or anything. Green's always had his hand in numerous cookie jars and at some point its why he left the series.It's a pity, though. With every season 3 episode I watched, I hoped Oz was going to do something, especially since he had gone from guest to main.



I still need to buy season 3 on DVD. It was a slightly confusing season, but it gave a perfect conclusion to the high school theme.

[Chiasm]

Oz was awesome. My favorite Oz moment had to be when he was reading a review done by some critic of his band. I forget the exact wording of the review but it basically stated the band sucked and couldn't play their instruments. Oz paused, thought about it, then shrugged saying "thats fair."

I disappointed when he left and I was further disappointed how the show basically went on to pretend his relationship with Willow was irrelevant and that Willow never really cared for him. Another topic entirely but the whole Willow is a lesbian forever vibe the show threw off in season VII bugged me immensely because it discounted her relationship with Oz as trivial. I had no problem with her being with Tara because some people are bisexual. But her to become lesbo only cheapens everything that happened with Oz.

[xnef1025]

Oz was awesome. My favorite Oz moment had to be when he was reading a review done by some critic of his band. I forget the exact wording of the review but it basically stated the band sucked and couldn't play their instruments. Oz paused, thought about it, then shrugged saying "thats fair."

I disappointed when he left and I was further disappointed how the show basically went on to pretend his relationship with Willow was irrelevant and that Willow never really cared for him. Another topic entirely but the whole Willow is a lesbian forever vibe the show threw off in season VII bugged me immensely because it discounted her relationship with Oz as trivial. I had no problem with her being with Tara because some people are bisexual. But her to become lesbo only cheapens everything that happened with Oz.
They never treated it that way. Willow moved on after Oz broke her heart, but he was always her first real love and she acknowledged that when he came back in season 4. It's actually somewhat common for a person to realize they are actually homosexual late in life after having a loving relationship with a member of the opposite sex. Particularly in America where Puritanical teachings still run strong and the norm is drilled into children from a young age while the alternatives are taboo. There are really very few 100% straight or 100% gay people out there. Willow loved a guy. Lost a guy. Fell for a girl, and realized that she actually prefers women to men. It doesn't negate her relationship with Oz and in a way makes it even more special since he's one of only 2 guys she'd go straight for(Xander having been the other at one time).

Willow didn't turn Oz down when he came back because she was gay now(even if they did use that line for a gag). She turned him down because he cheated on her and then left her and it broke her heart and she had moved on. Even though he left for good, supernatural related reasons, it was still crappy of him and it would have been a disservice to Willow for her to go running back to him when he came back. Sometimes bad things happen to good couples and they can't go back to how it was before.

[Ryan K]

I disappointed when he left and I was further disappointed how the show basically went on to pretend his relationship with Willow was irrelevant and that Willow never really cared for him.

I never got that impression whatsoever. Not even a little bit.


Another topic entirely but the whole Willow is a lesbian forever vibe the show threw off in season VII bugged me immensely because it discounted her relationship with Oz as trivial. I had no problem with her being with Tara because some people are bisexual. But her to become lesbo only cheapens everything that happened with Oz.

This is you're favorite song to sing isn't it? I can't count how many times you've gone off on this. I'm not a big fan of the decision to make Willow a lesbian. I would have preferred that hadn't happened. But I think it was handled well for the most part and fairly realistically according to many people I have spoken too. And I completely disagree with you that it cheapens everything that happened with Oz or made it trivial. But if you like to see it that way go ahead, but I believe you're seeing things that aren't there.

[Johnny_Luck]

Kennedy is one of the most underrated awesome kick ass things to happen to buffy and she probably wouldn't have happened if willow wasn't a Lesbian and pain in the ass Tara wasn't killed off, so I am glad they did Both.

Top 5 Buffy Good guys

Faith, Xander, Kennedy, Giles, and Andrew

Top 5 Buffy Bad Guys

Mayor, Faith, Caleb, Spike, Angel

[Mormel]

They never treated it that way. Willow moved on after Oz broke her heart, but he was always her first real love and she acknowledged that when he came back in season 4.Yeah, I don't think Willow-Oz got trivialised at all. It was all portrayed beautifully in 'Wild At Heart' and 'New Moon Rising'.
As for the Willow-is-a-lesbian forever "vibe", I think it's mainly semantic interpretation. To me, Willow is bi. But it may well be that Willow herself identifies as gay (and she does).
Kennedy is one of the most underrated awesome kick ass things to happen to buffy and she probably wouldn't have happened if willow wasn't a Lesbian and pain in the ass Tara wasn't killed off, so I am glad they did Both.You could have phrased this a bit more tactfully, but I'm among the few who liked Kennedy as well, though I didn't think Tara was a PITA.

[Ryan K]

There's a featurette on the Season 4 DVD in which Seth Green explains why he left the show. As I plow through the show again I just rewatched it.

Basically after becoming a regular in Season 3, he and Joss had talks about arcs for the character. Writers had a hard time finding places for Oz in some scripts, and eventually the arcs for Faith and the business with the Mayor sidetracked all plans for Oz. At the beginning of Season 4 Green talked again with Whedon and asked if he could go back to being a recurring cast member like in Season 2, but by this time it was felt Oz was too imbeded in the mythology of the show so the best thing for the show would be for him to leave. Thus the arc for Oz in Season 4 was condensed all into one episode (Wild at Heart).