Are Comics Dying?

[uatu13]

I'd have to say yes, or at least definitely in their current form. I just returned from 4 different comic stores trying to find one issue that came out last week! This highlights just one of the many problems currently with comics, the death of actual brick and mortar comic shops. I remember (and I'm not that old!) when I could walk down to the neighborhood comic store, say hello to everyone, and pic up my weekly fix. Nowadays, the only real option for getting comics is to order online. Issues are print at such a low run that unless you order then MONTHS in advance you have absolutely no chance of picking them up. This means that new comic readers don't have a chance to actually try out new, well written titles. Couple this with the fact that prices of comics are rising to such ridiculous levels that there is no new market for undiscovered readers (you're going to have a hard time convincing a kid to spend $3 on 22 pages when he can get a video game for $30 or so). With all these problems it's sad to say I can't see comics being around for the next 50 years.

[pureclint]

So you think they are dying because you went to 4 stores and the issue you wanted was sold out at all four (or three of the four not sure if you eventually got it)?

Controlling your print runs is not a sign of a dying buisness it is a sign of proper managment. Heck they even reprint the issue 2, 3 or 4 times if it is a key book. And while yes Comics and Reading in general has slowly eroded from the mainstream population it by no means equals death as of now.

Your also missing a few things: Video games range from a few bucks to 60 AND you have to invest in a system for 100 to 350. Graphic Novels, 10 to 20 dollars for a hundred plus pages and the fact that it is much easier to have 3 dollars as disposable income hten 30, 50 or more.

[AlanScott606]

I think comic's seem to adapt pretty well to whatever the situation is around them at the time. I can not even count all the times I have heard that the death bells are tolling for comic's.


This form of entertainment has always been a survivor and will continue to be long into the future IMO.

[Michael P]

Bollocks, Chicken Little. Comics may be changing (and I think we can all agree that there's room for them to change for the better), but death is another thing all together. Barring the total collapse of human civilization, I don't see the art form going anywhere anytime soon.

[Clear]

Issues are print at such a low run that unless you order then MONTHS in advance you have absolutely no chance of picking them up.

Exaggerate a little?

Rather than planning months in advance, just go to the shop on the week the issue comes out. I have never missed a comic that I was interested in buying doing that.

[icctrombone]

The comic industry might survive , but the problem is that they are gouging the faithful readers that are left to survive.
While circulation goes down , they raise the price and we shoulder the burden.

[pureclint]

Supply and demand!

Regardless, that is a very simpilistic view of why the price has gone up. I am certain many other things have affected the cost of a average comic: ink prices, paper prices, inflation, salaries, retirement plans, health care, shipping cost, taxes (payroll, corperate, and more) etc...

[RedBaron]

Not dying. They don't sell as well as they did in the pre-and-post war eras or during the unfortunately bloated 90s era of comic collecting, that's for sure. But even during the most recent comics boom in the late 80s and early 90s when comics were big sellers, sales weren’t based on great quality product, but a collector culture fueled by greed and variant chrome foil covers. Comics are not as wide-read as prose fiction, or as widely viewed as movies or DVDs, but comics (at least from the big production companies) are a definite part of our cultural landscape. Today, comics are still a very palpable cultural product despite their sales, and I would think they are better off in terms of quality than in the previous years.

Outside of sales figures and how popular comics are, I also think that right now comics are on a pretty high plateau when it comes to the quality and variety of the work they showcase. This observation goes beyond just the major publishers too. Although the bulk of the medium's products are derivative shite (but how is that different from movies or television?) you can find most any genre in comics today (romance, horror, crime, fantasy, sci-fi, political, adventure, etc.) whether in serial format or in original graphic novels. There are some great artists and writers out there in the field putting out great work (just take a look at the last few Eisner award nominees). Based on this alone, I can't see how comics are dying.

[glennsim]

In any discussion like this, it helps to clarify what you mean by "comics". Some people consider any books filled with sequential art comics, which includes manga, original graphic novels, indy books, etc. Others basically only mean the super-hero comics published by DC and Marvel.

The future of the general format is probably not at risk. But the future of super-hero comics might be on the wane, due to a number of different reasons.

I'm just amused that you had 4 comics shops to potentially visit. Some people don't have ANY shops near them.

[The Shadow]

Issues are print at such a low run that unless you order then MONTHS in advance you have absolutely no chance of picking them up.
Why not set up a pull list at your local comic shop? I get around 40 titles monthly and they've only missed one issue for me that I got the next week on reorder anyway.

[Lorendiac]

Couple this with the fact that prices of comics are rising to such ridiculous levels that there is no new market for undiscovered readers (you're going to have a hard time convincing a kid to spend $3 on 22 pages when he can get a video game for $30 or so). With all these problems it's sad to say I can't see comics being around for the next 50 years.

I'd point in a different direction to find the problem.

I'd say: "Nobody is even trying to convince the kid to spend $3 on the newest Titans issue, for instance, so he doesn't even have a choice to make! When he goes to the nearest Wal-Mart, he knows he can find the hottest new video games for sale. As he walks past a magazine rack, looking for video game magazines that might have good reviews and interesting cheats and hints and stuff, his eye is not caught by the newest issue of the Teen Titans, because it's never sold at Wal-Mart.

"He doesn't know where the nearest comic shop is, and doesn't see why he should care. But if the comics were actually sold in places he regularly visits with his allowance burning a hole in his pocket, such as supermarkets and drugstores and Wal-Mart, then he might actually notice their existence, and then he might actually buy one or two, and some of the kids who bought them might actually become regular customers for awhile. That's how it happened to me in the early 1980s."

Now, if the current Teen Titans series and a bunch of other Marvel and DC superhero titles were being sold at Wal-Mart every month, and if sales did not benefit from that, then I would have to concede that the current comic books were either too high-priced, or too short on the amount of storytelling contained in each monthly issue, or both, to be "competitive" when a kid is deciding how to spend his money that month. But right now the problem doesn't come up. If you hide your products in an obscure ghetto known as "the local comic shop" where most young people will never even see them, then of course you aren't even "competitive"! You're simply invisible!

[RedNave]

I don't have any sort of set up with my local retailer to keep comcis aside, even though they offer that service, I go in and pick my issues off the shelf each Thursday or Friday and I have yet to miss an issue in the last year. A good example is Flash #220, went in on Saturday 3+ weeks after it had came out and managed to pick up a copy with no hassle. I would say it is because the shop is quiet but that is a lie, it is on the Busiest street in the city and always packed and I am constanly surprissed that they have enough comics in stock to met demand.

Just read the above post, thats how I got into comcis about a decade ago. I think the UK has a good set up that the Uk reprints of both DC and Marvel comics are aviable in all major stores and newsagents, that certainly helped me back then, instead of going for the games magazines I actually went for the reprints, then of course I moved onto getting the American imports from a proper comic shop.

[Dave Cote]

Why not set up a pull list at your local comic shop? I get around 40 titles monthly and they've only missed one issue for me that I got the next week on reorder anyway.
What Shadow said.You can't blame retailers for not carrying huge quanities for the shelf its not cost effective for them.If your interested in something you should be able to ask for it up to a week before it comes out and they get it for you on time.Or get a reorder within a week or so.Plus the addeed bonus is if you have a file you get a discount and are not obligated to purchase something if you decide you don't want it.

[tricksterpup]

Ok here it goes, Comics are not dying.. The problems with Comics are the shops that went out of business. Partly to blame on this was Capital, Diamond and Marvel comics trying to claim on to the bigger piece of pie. Due to Diamond getting all the exclusives and Marvel distributing their own comics well, this caused a monopoly and caused a lot of smaller stores to go out of business during the mid 90s. It was during the time of the great crash and yes, Marvel and DC were the cause of this. Marvel selling their own books and DC selling straight to DC. This did not just hurt the comic shop owners but other smaller comic distributors such as Friendly Franks and Capital both from the Chicago Area, just to name a few. These guys could not compete since the other 2 mentioned had all the exclusive stuff and deals. The industry is slowly getting better, with Diamond on top now but it is slowly getting better. With the deal with Marvel selling comics at 7-11 will help the cause as well. More books being published and getting out there will help lower the eventual cost of comics. At least that is the theory. Why do you think comics were so cheap for so long until after the 90's crash then prices just jumped. It was there way of trying to survive a market that just cut its own throat.
So who was to blame Marvel? DC? Diamond? or was it the spectators of the 90's that went crazy and bought everything? But it was a tough market then and still is to some point.
As stated before here, Go to your local shop and ask if they can pull the books for you. Many stores do.

[uatu13]

I used to have a pull service, but frequently missed issues and had to ultimately switch over to a mail order service. I'm not saying comics are dying because I personally couldn't find one issue, but that over the past 4 years I've seen at least 5 stores close in my city (Chicago), and the comic stores that do exist have changed from being a place you could walk in and pick up issues to a place where you had to order them far in advance in order to even have a chance of picking them up; stores just aren't ordering comics for walk-in or new customers.

Also, I'm an avid comic fan, but the prices of new comics have seriously discourged me from trying any new series out, simply because they cost too much and will get cancelled by issue 12 (especially with Marvel). With the way things are I can't imagine any new readers joining the fold (how do you get hooked on issues you can't find and prices you can't afford?), which is why I said as the new generations take over I feel they'll be going away or seriously changing their format.

[Adem]

I notice at my comic book store alot of people who come in to buy trading cards, which the store also sells,ocassionaly glance at the comic racks. I talk to them and recommend some comics that I think they would enjoy. Most of them come back to buy more and a few even start reading comics regularly. So I like to think I do my part.

[stealthwise]

Not dying. They don't sell as well as they did in the pre-and-post war eras or during the unfortunately bloated 90s era of comic collecting, that's for sure. But even during the most recent comics boom in the late 80s and early 90s when comics were big sellers, sales weren’t based on great quality product, but a collector culture fueled by greed and variant chrome foil covers. Comics are not as wide-read as prose fiction, or as widely viewed as movies or DVDs, but comics (at least from the big production companies) are a definite part of our cultural landscape. Today, comics are still a very palpable cultural product despite their sales, and I would think they are better off in terms of quality than in the previous years.

I wish that I could be as optimistic, but to be honest, I see North American comics declining within the continent at an alarming rate. There is not the sustainable readership (ie, diverse and relatively young) necessary to keep the current industry alive beyond the next, say, twenty years, imo. While I love the medium, its greatest works and its extensive possibilities, things cannot remain the way that they are in order for their cultural presence to grow, or even sustain its currently low levels of pervasiveness.

Outside of sales figures and how popular comics are, I also think that right now comics are on a pretty high plateau when it comes to the quality and variety of the work they showcase. This observation goes beyond just the major publishers too. Although the bulk of the medium's products are derivative shite (but how is that different from movies or television?) you can find most any genre in comics today (romance, horror, crime, fantasy, sci-fi, political, adventure, etc.) whether in serial format or in original graphic novels. There are some great artists and writers out there in the field putting out great work (just take a look at the last few Eisner award nominees). Based on this alone, I can't see how comics are dying.

I disagree, at least in terms of diversity. There are still far too many superhero-based or influenced titles currently being produced, and not just by the "Big Two". I think anyone would be hardpressed to find three pure science fiction titles being published currently that are not some form of genre-hybrid.

[LooksBetterDrawn]

I think alot of it has to do with availability. Ive always bought graphic novels or had a few mail order comics, and it wasent until just recently, when a shop opened close enough to me that i could visit often, that i started getting around 30 issues monthly. I dont think that offering comics at wal-mart or other stores like that will help. If people want to get into comics, theyll look into it, and with the help of the internet its much easier. Now that I have a regular store, buying comics is an experience. I love that I can go in and be recognized and handed my weekly stack of books. Sometimes I might even run into someone to talk about comics with (though it dosent seem to happen to often with the majority of marvel zombies).

[dougputhoff]

I don't think comics are dying, I just think they're evolving. I don't buy comic books anymore (The last one I bought was In the Shadow of No Towers. There are several reason. The most pressing is I've been out of a job for a week-and-a-half now. Another is time. Much of my time is spent on the Internet. On the net I have access to numerous comics, particularly newspaper comics. A decade ago I was stuck with whatever was in the local papers.

I don't think comics will ever die, they'll just change.

[RedBaron]

I think anyone would be hardpressed to find three pure science fiction titles being published currently that are not some form of genre-hybrid.

First, the problem with that is in the sense that not all kinds of comics are published regularly besides superhero stuff. What about the short stories of comics in anthologies or the mini-series of last year or the year after? Surely they are still viable and accessible parts of the comic book fabric.

Secondly, what do you define as a "pure" genre? I don't think such a thing exists. Especially in this most-modern world, a lot of genres are genre-hybrids. Even science-fiction came out of a history of genre-hybridity such as the romance (in the literary sense), Utopian fiction, travel fiction, and dream-vision literature. To the extent that genres we might recognize as pure have distinct elements that set them apart from other genres, I'll agree that science-fiction is not a strong genre in comics when unrelated to superheroes, seeing the whole mainstream medium is dominated by superhero stories, but I would still say science-fiction is never a pure form in any medium, and science-fiction possesses many facets even inside its own genre, thus there are palpable science-fiction stories in comics today.

I would call current series like Planetary, although it pays great homage to superhero and other comic genres including the past pulp sci-fi era, definite science-fiction stories. Based around a science-fiction premise, it includes time travel and inter-dimensional mystery solving, etc. We3 by Morrison and Quitely is science fiction. Cyborg pets? Can't beat that. Even the new Doc Frankenstein could be seen as sci-fi. Sci-fi has never been devoid of action and adventure, so I would throw Doc in there.

That's just off the top of my head. I would imagine there are more out there that I can't think of. Looking for genre-hybridity free stories these days is a fool’s came and counterproductive. Genres are never pure.

Sure, science-fiction in prose and film will ever be as vibrant in comics as they are in other mediums due to a lull in readership and restrictions put on the spatial and narrative format of the comic book medium; also, superheroes will dominate the comic book landscape because they are one of the rare births of the medium, but based on what is being published along with superhero titles, I think comics have a very decent and not-at-all dying variety of material.

[cable guy]

I talk to them and recommend some comics that I think they would enjoy. Most of them come back to buy more and a few even start reading comics regularly. So I like to think I do my part.

I try to do the same thing.

I hope every little bit helps.

[Rob Imes]

I think the idea that comics are too expensive is a bit exaggerated. It ignores the fact that most comics shops have discount boxes where you can find lots of comics, many of them recent ones, for pocket change. Also, most shops (and mail order/website services like Westfield) offer discounts on new comics which can bring the price down significantly. For example, at my local comics shop, you get 30% off if your new comics total is over $24. That brings down the cost to around $16.80. There are lower discounts if your order is less than $24 -- something like 20% if it's over $15, etc. I've sometimes added a comic to my stack just to get the bigger discount.

Back to the discount boxes. Even though new comics were dirt-cheap by today's standards when I first started collecting comics, back in the late 1970s/early 1980s, I nonetheless spent a lot of time digging through discount boxes so that I could get a lot of comics for my money. Back then, most of the shops had 25-cent boxes; today many comics shops have 50-cent or $1.00 boxes, and some places still have 25-cent boxes.

It's not always junk in those discount boxes either; I've found many a gem in such boxes over the years. Last week, in fact, I found myself at a comics shop that I rarely go to, and I had barely any cash on me -- less than 2 bucks, in fact. I hadn't planned on buying anything in the shop -- I was there for another reason (long story) -- but I couldn't resist taking a quick look through some of the cheap boxes.

Most of their discount boxes were $1.00 boxes with a mixture of comics from the 1970s to the present within. I remember showing an issue of Marvel Triple Action to my sister, who was there with me, and telling her how I used to love that comic when I was a kid. I'd like to think that today's kids would have the same opportunity to enjoy that series, if they simply bothered to check out the cheap box.

Anyway, the shop also had a few 25-cent boxes and considering my lack of cash, I decided I should look through those boxes instead. I love old comics, so I tended to be more interested in the old-looking comics I saw therein. I widdled down my stack to four coverless comics which I then took to the cash register and paid $1.06 (counting tax) for them. Those four comics were: Mystery in Space #2 (June-July 1951), Black Magic Vol. 2 #1 (Oct-Nov. 1951, the 7th Black Magic comic), My Greatest Adventure #13 (Jan-Feb. 1957), and Jimmy Olsen #34 (Jan. 1959). And like I said, that was last week.

Even with new comics -- my local comics shop will usually put unsold semi-recent comics (ones that are 4 months old or more) into the discount boxes to make shelf space for newer releases. So, if one is patient and one doesn't want to pay cover price (or nearly cover price) for a new release, one can wait a few months and see if it shows up in the cheap boxes and buy it for 50-cents instead. Sometimes the shop will bundle together the issues of a mini-series and sell it for a single discounted price.

So, the comics shops do have ways of letting fans amass lots of comics at cheap prices if they are willing to take advantage of those opportunities.

[Suzanne]

Comics have been "dying" for years, yet they're still around and will be for some time to come.

[K'Nort]

I used to have a pull service, but frequently missed issues and had to ultimately switch over to a mail order service. I'm not saying comics are dying because I personally couldn't find one issue, but that over the past 4 years I've seen at least 5 stores close in my city (Chicago), and the comic stores that do exist have changed from being a place you could walk in and pick up issues to a place where you had to order them far in advance in order to even have a chance of picking them up; stores just aren't ordering comics for walk-in or new customers.

On the other hand, travel agents have closed up shop all over Chicago too, but people are still going on vacation. I lose money every time I buy a comic locally, because the discounts you get from the online vendors are insane. Bricks and mortar can't compete.

[The Batman]

I really hope that they're not and I think that when Marvel and DC really start to lose money that we'll see them shift business practices and we'l hopefully still have stories coming out even if it's not in the form that we're used to. I think that small press and indie stuff will continue along a they always have and I imagine that in that way there'll always be comics, there just might not always be Big Two superhero comics.


As for price, does anyone have any sort of data comparing the price increase of comics versus like the price increase of a movie ticket or a record or a haircut. I ask because I was told that back in the 40's comics were the same price as a movie ticket and now a movie costs like $11 in some places while a comic is only like $4 and that doesn't seem so bad.*

Editor's Note: All prices above are listed in Canadian currency.

[StoneGold]

I wish that I could be as optimistic, but to be honest, I see North American comics declining within the continent at an alarming rate. There is not the sustainable readership (ie, diverse and relatively young) necessary to keep the current industry alive beyond the next, say, twenty years, imo. While I love the medium, its greatest works and its extensive possibilities, things cannot remain the way that they are in order for their cultural presence to grow, or even sustain its currently low levels of pervasiveness.

Were this 1997, you'd be right. But comics are in a mild holding pattern with a slight upswing right now, and have been for the last couple of years.

[Lorendiac]

I really hope that they're not and I think that when Marvel and DC really start to lose money that we'll see them shift business practices and we'l hopefully still have stories coming out even if it's not in the form that we're used to. I think that small press and indie stuff will continue along a they always have and I imagine that in that way there'll always be comics, there just might not always be Big Two superhero comics.


As for price, does anyone have any sort of data comparing the price increase of comics versus like the price increase of a movie ticket or a record or a haircut. I ask because I was told that back in the 40's comics were the same price as a movie ticket and now a movie costs like $11 in some places while a comic is only like $4 and that doesn't seem so bad.*

Editor's Note: All prices above are listed in Canadian currency.

I think I've heard that back in the 1930s, and probably the 1940s, a standard price for a comic book was one dime (ten cents U.S. currency). A movie ticket was probably about the same, for all I know.

But the movies in those days were mostly in black and white, and special effects were primitive. And on the other hand, comic books were twice as big as they are now -- for your ten cents, you got a 64-page item with several short stories in it, instead of a 32-page item in which about 22 pages are actual story, and that story is often just "Excruciatingly Slow-Moving Story Arc: Part 3 of 6!"

[jaguarshark]

At this point, comics are the skinny chick who keeps saying, "ohhhh, i'm so fat", just so people will say, "no, no, no, you're so thin!"
You're not dying, comics, and we're not falling for your brazen pleas for complimentary reassurance anymore!

[howyadoin]

Aw man, this tired old conversation again?


Hell, I'll admit it. Comics are dying, because I don't pre-order. Also, every time you masturbate, God kills a kitten.

[Reptisaurus!]

Also, every time you masturbate, God kills a kitten.

Ohhh. I thought it was that every time I killed a kitten, God mastrubates.

Which did a better job of explaining God and the state of the universe than anything else I've ever read.

[howyadoin]

Ohhh. I thought it was that every time I killed a kitten, God mastrubates.

Which did a better job of explaining God and the state of the universe than anything else I've ever read.No, no. Every time you kill a kitten, a dog masturbates.

[Reptisaurus!]

No, no. Every time you kill a kitten, a dog masturbates.

Oh yeah. That makes a LOT more sense. Damn dyslexia.

[Pól Rua]

Yes, comics are dying.
It's called entropy.
Everything dies.

http://www.io.com/~kontakt/rileycon/RileyCon_VI/tick.jpg
Even potatoes.

[The Batman]

^^^

Speak for yourself, I plan to live forever. ;)

[Sanagi]

Comics are dead now, I just pulled the plug. It's a kindness.

[Dan Apodaca]

Comics are zombies. They're already dead, but now they just wander around aimlessly, ripping out parts of our brains and making us wish for the sweet release of death.

[Brian Cronin]

Aw man, this tired old conversation again?


Hell, I'll admit it. Comics are dying, because I don't pre-order. Also, every time you masturbate, God kills a kitten.

Well, for what it's worth, it literally IS an old conversation. Lorendiac bumped it up by accident.

-Brian