Lets fine parents of bad students

[BoosterBronze]

Heres an idea thats being playfully kicked around the lounge of the school I work at.

Under "No Child Left behind" schools and teachers are accountable for the learning that happens as a school. But what about the kids? A teacher can't teach a kid who won't learn. What about the bad students who refuse to learn and earn a Failing School grade for your kids school? Shouldnt something be done to make their parents accountable?

Imagine if that wasn't the case.
Little Jimmy doesn't do his homework? $5 fine for his folks.
Sally is perpetually tardy? $50 fine.
Jose sits in class and doesn't pay attention? $10 a day.
Bobby gets sent out of class for a disruption? $5 per period.

I think pretty quickly kids would shape up, and parents would MAKE kids shape up.

Then, with all kids actually doing what is asked of them, I bet most of the "No Child Left Behind" failure schools would quickly improve.

[Dreadstar]

It's an interesting fantasy, I'll grant you that.

[BoosterBronze]

It's an interesting fantasy, I'll grant you that.

Yeah I know it's impossible. But I wonder if somehow it could become a ballot issue. It wouldnt pass in a million years, but maybe the talk abot PARENT accountability would lesson some of the heat teachers have been taking, especially in California.

[JeffreyWKramer]

This is a horrible idea, IMHO.

I'm all for parents being responsible, and holding their kids responsible for their behavior, but there are limits.

In Iowa, parents of truant kids can and do get fined. Problem is, I've seen cases of conduct-disordered kids, in which the parents drive the kid directly to the school, walk them in the front door to their classes... and the kid then skips out after his or her first class. And, even more stupidly, I've seen cases where the parents got taken to court over that.

There are limits to what even the best parent can do, and many times, the parents who are trying the hardest - working extra jobs to make ends meet, etc - are the ones these sorts of efforts hurt.

So, I vote no. The problems you list are real, but the proposed solution would only cause more problems.

[Nitmo]

I kinda agree with Kramer here.


You have some good ideas there, holding parents accountable, but a fine like that would be an example of bad execution.


My problem with the school system is that they don't have enough funds or freedom to correctly punish students.

If you skip school, you should do extra school-time Detention, Saturday school, after-semester courses that cut into vacation time, stuff like that.

Suspension should only be used if the kid is becoming stressed and is lashing out because of it. A few days off could do this kind of kid some good.

Bad grades is tricky, because of the variety of causes for it. Some examples: the kid could have a job and not be able to learn, could be a mental 'issue'*, or just bad parenting.
*issue meaning disorder, fear of success, fear of not being 'cool', etc...

But I'm just spitballing here.

[Alex]

My problem with the school system is that they don't have enough funds or freedom to correctly punish students.

If you skip school, you should do extra school-time Detention, Saturday school, after-semester courses that cut into vacation time, stuff like that.
.
But i had to do saturday school and after school detention.
And iowa apprently fines parents according to kramer.
...
What kind of schools do you freaks have!
We were punished and punished constantly in my day, by gum.

[Sir Tim Drake]

Maybe we should make bad students wear dunce caps.

But if we did, then dunce caps would become a hot fashion accessory. Kids would wear dunce caps to show they were too cool to care about learning.

Never mind.

[Sanagi]

Bad idea.

Discourages the poor from trying to educate their children. Puts intense pressure on kids, sucking a little more joy and innocence out of childhood. Widens the rift between parents and teachers, making the conflict between them more personal and more bitter.

No Child Left Behind is bad enough, don't go making things worse.

[Alex]

Maybe we should make bad students wear dunce caps.

But if we did, then dunce caps would become a hot fashion accessory. Kids would wear dunce caps to show they were too cool to care about learning.

Never mind.
No, we can't blame the students for being stupid, that would be wrong.

[Artemis1]

All I think is that the teacher protection stinks right now. Teachers now or days don't even care about the children. Like today, an @$$ wipe tripped me on the tar. When I sat down to hope my leg gets better(which it does, but still hurts), this teacher walks over and says "That's what you get for playing on tar". THE PLAYGROUND FLOOR IS COMPLETELY TAR! That made me mad.

[Loren]

Does anyone else read John Rosemond's column, "Parenting"? A couple of weeks ago, he began an answer with a paragraph that seems relevant here:

Fifty years ago, if a teacher called a parent to report a child's misbehavior, the parent accepted the teacher's version of the event, accepted that her child, on any given day, was capable of outrageous behavior, and assured the teacher that her child would be punished. That response reflected the understanding that no amount of good parenting could guarantee good behavior; that every child possessed the ability to act in ways that were completely counter to parental values and teaching. As the once-popular saying went, "Every child has a mind of his own."

A parent might be able to ensure that a child's homework is done (although if it's the parent that could be fined, this could quickly lead to parents doing the homework themselves). But paying attention in class? That's pushing the limits of a parent's power.

I pretty much agree with what JWK had to say, but I'll had one practical disadvantage to the notion. It would immediately be spun by some activists as a financial burden on the poor. Their children are probably overrepresented among the group of 'bad students' (when I helped with juvenile court, I didn't see any middle-class or rich families dragged in on indegency charges), and monetary fines would hit them harder too.

Loren

[Justin Davis]

All I think is that the teacher protection stinks right now. Teachers now or days don't even care about the children.

I get it that you're seeing all this from a student's point of view, but as a teacher, I can honestly say that's untrue. Sure, I'll freely admit there are some teachers who don't put much effort into their job and others that don't really know how to relate to students very well. However, for every one of those, there's probably five or more that are trying their best to do the one part of the job that's so hard for them to do these days: educate people. You can't even begin to imagine the paperwork and stress that goes into teaching. Teachers may get on your nerves, it may seem like no one's on your side when crappy things happen, but more often than not, the one thing that teachers get the most upset about is that we are not given the ability and freedom to teach in a way that we see is productive. We're forced to slam standarized tests down students' throats even when most of us believe there is no legitimate educational purpose to them. We're forced to watch over a hundred students a day without a lot of help coming from many parents or higher administration or much in the way of co-operation of the students themselves.

In the end, we just want the word accountability to apply to not just teachers, but principals, vice principals, superintendents, parents, students, and the community as a whole.

Say the word accountability toa lot of teachers, and you'll probably either see them roll their eyes or flinch.

I'm sorry you got yelled at for something that you most likely didn't deserve to get yelled at for though.