View Full Version : Spain's Royal Family Up In Arms Over House of M's Magneto!!
Beast
04-21-2005, 01:35 PM
I was going to just put this in the 'House of M' thread, but figured it would work best as a seperate thread. It seems that much hyped picture of 'King Magneto' from the House of M event, has caused a bit of a stir in Spain. It was noticed a week or two ago that Magneto's uniform was based entirely off of King Juan Carlos' dress uniform. Now the royal family of Spain is up in arms and discussion of sueing to have the art removed and altered is happening. I think it's a bit of an over-reaction, but maybe this will stop the common practice of copying real life pictures for comic book art. Here's a link to the story with the pictures from a newspaper in Spain. I also am attaching a somewhat decent translation of the story, done on Babel Fish. :)
' X-Men' draws to new the bad one of cómic with the uniform of the King
MARIÁNGEL PALACE - 21/04/2005 BARCELONA
Marvel, the greater editorial of cómics of the United States, has used an official photo of king Juan Carlos, in whom it appears in full dress with uniform of commander in chief, to present/display the new image of Magneto, personage who incarnates to a villain in X-Men, cómic that in Spain is commercialized with the title of Patrol X.
The Real House studied yesterday with its legal services the way to obtain that the publishing mentioned one retires the drawings of its page Web and rectifies the designs of the personage.
Marvel has announced the appearance for the next month of June of the new collection The Pulse: House ofM, in which Magneto appears like "king of the mutants", reason for which atuendo has looked for to him regal.
The similarity between the official photo of Don Juan Carlos and the image of Magneto was discovered by a user of blog the paper jail, a forum in which the lovers of the tebeos for adults interchange information. The usuary mentioned one alerted days ago on the subject and included the reproduction of the new image of Magneto, builds of the sketcher of cómics Mike Mayhem, next to the photo of the King, signed by Alberto Schommer.
In the one of the drawings, in color, only one that differs from the photo of the King is the face, since until the bottom and the armchair that appears in the drawing of Mayhem they are such that those of the photo of Schommer. In another one of the images, this time in black and white, the image of Magneto appears tipped and with another bottom, different from the one from the used carpet as frame in the official photo of king Juan Carlos. The sketcher of cómics reproduces in the uniform of the villain of cómic the decorations and the gallons that the King shines, even the ring of his finger meñique and the Toisón de Oro, the Maxima decoration of the Spanish Real House, in addition to other distinctions.
In the palace of the Zarzuela they yesterday hoped the resolution of the legal cabinet to prevent that it is continued using the image of the king of Spain. Of the factory of cómics Marvel personages like Spiderman have been born or the Four Fantastic ones, in addition to the X-Men. All have been taken to the cinema.
http://www.lavanguardia.es/web/20050421/51182332025.html
StarsAndGarters
04-21-2005, 02:35 PM
And the plot thickens...
I hope they just take it as an homage. I love that picture.
Charagon
04-21-2005, 03:34 PM
I think it's in poor taste to so blatently copy like that.
Sandoz
04-21-2005, 03:56 PM
I think it's in poor taste to so blatently copy like that.
I agree. I know a lot of artists use live models or photographs for references, and that's perfectly fine, but in this picture it's as if Magneto's head was simply cut and pasted onto King Juan Carlos' body. I think the royal family is overreacting, but I can understand why they have a problem with this.
It's a shame, because I really liked that picture before I saw the source.
venuscameback
04-21-2005, 04:09 PM
I think it's in poor taste to so blatantly copy like that.
agreed.
and a very odd decision at that.
I've no problem with artists using photography as a starting point for their work. but this is just odd. Could the artist not change a stitch, or a detail? I understand the idea is to make Magneto look regal but they could still achieve that and change the medals, sash etc. but it does depend on the context - if in the story Magneto is the Spanish head of state, or moved from that position to head of the world, then it makes sense that his attire would be at least based on Spanish formal wear. There would be more cause for complaint if he were meant to be a Spanish leader but wore formal attire that reflected a completely different national heritage.
So we do need to wait and read the full issue to understand the context of the picture.
but if Magneto turns out to have no connection to Spain, even then I'll be more disappointed as a comics fan for the shortcuts taken and seeming artistic laziness than I would see cause for this to be a major diplomatic or political issue
venus
To the non-comic book fan, Magneto is a mutant terrorist; therefore, I can see why the Spanish prime minister is a little upset. I'm sure Joe Quesada will use the controversy to sell more books... :rolleyes:
This is yet another example of Marvel being incredibly lazy. The artist can use the source photo for the inspiration, but he should have changed Magneto's clothes & medals to make it appear less of a straight copy from the photo itself.
Indigo Al
04-21-2005, 05:13 PM
I think this is a perfect time for X-Statix Reanimated Mutant Princess Di to attack Juan Carlos Lensherr, and we can have a Euro-royale Rumble Royale...
In all honesty, I, of Spanish descent and having lived in the country as a young tyke of 7 or 8, don't see the enormous deal. (Probably because I would think it was cool if someone based Magneto off of me)
Go Go
04-21-2005, 05:14 PM
I think it's in poor taste to so blatently copy like that.
I'm in full agreement. It seems (however, now incorrectly) that whoever drew/painted the picture of Magneto would have enough talent to come up a costume design that was regal without having to copy like that.
To the non-comic book fan, Magneto is a mutant terrorist; therefore, I can see why the Spanish prime minister is a little upset. I'm sure Joe Quesada will use the controversy to sell more books... :rolleyes:
This is yet another example of Marvel being incredibly lazy. The artist can use the source photo for the inspiration, but he should have changed Magneto's clothes & medals to make it appear less of a straight copy from the photo itself.
i'm spanish. its not that the spanish king is upset, i'm sure he doesnt really care at all (our king rocks)...but spanish law (i also study law) forbid the use of spanish symbols such as flags or so, its like they have a copright or something.
but anyway, i have to agree with whay u said about marvel being so lazy, they could at least have changed the medals....they might think as spain as a strange non developed country that noone knows...
Atom_basher
04-21-2005, 05:55 PM
I think its silly, and that they shouldnt be able to sue, its the same as when comics pay famous celebs homage
Emerald Ghost
04-21-2005, 06:00 PM
I did not know there were that many hispanics on the x board. Cool. :)
If I am offended by anything, it is the lousy job of translating babel fish does.
Bryan Rios
04-21-2005, 06:18 PM
I think it's really funny when something like this happens.
Cephus
04-21-2005, 06:22 PM
I agree. I know a lot of artists use live models or photographs for references, and that's perfectly fine, but in this picture it's as if Magneto's head was simply cut and pasted onto King Juan Carlos' body. I think the royal family is overreacting, but I can understand why they have a problem with this.
It's a shame, because I really liked that picture before I saw the source.
There's a difference between using a model and blantant copying. This is WAY over the line. A model shows you how the parts go together realistically. This is photoshopping on a different head.
It would be funny to see Spain sue the crap out of Marvel. Hope they win too.
Sandoz
04-21-2005, 06:42 PM
There's a difference between using a model and blantant copying. This is WAY over the line. A model shows you how the parts go together realistically. This is photoshopping on a different head.
That was my point. This was more than using a pic as a reference; it was copied down to the last detail (well, except for Magneto's head) and then passed off as original art. Not a good move.
Kid Seven
04-21-2005, 06:42 PM
Wow. Marvel, Marvel, Marvel. Just please, pretty please, have your artists not copy directly from live models. Please? Especially when said live model happens to be both alive and the friggin' head of a Western European country!
Wow. Especially (I'm not done) when said piece is of a mutant TERRORIST and said model is head of a country that lost hundreds of people just a year ago in a TERRORIST attack!
Jesus Cristo. I'm not angry so much as just annoyed. Oy vey. 'lagarism from the House of Ideas'. Reads like an Onion headline.
Wow. Marvel, Marvel, Marvel. Just please, pretty please, have your artists not copy directly from live models. Please? Especially when said live model happens to be both alive and the friggin' head of a Western European country!
Wow. Especially (I'm not done) when said piece is of a mutant TERRORIST and said model is head of a country that lost hundreds of people just a year ago in a TERRORIST attack!
Jesus Cristo. I'm not angry so much as just annoyed. Oy vey. 'lagarism from the House of Ideas'. Reads like an Onion headline.
Exactly. Marvel's executives did not think at all & released the cover without even thinking of the potential consequences. Joe Quesada had to see the cover before it went to press. Why didn't he stop the cover from being published??? Quesada had to know the Spanish prime minister would be upset that that Marvel placed a mutant terrorist from the prime minister's photo.
I hope Marvel is sued by Spain's government so fast Joe Quesada will completely lose his Black Queen costume & his dog collar from being Marvel's most successful sychophant.
jetter_cheeze
04-21-2005, 07:09 PM
This is probably just a publicity stunt. Betcha they have back up art that just so happens to be "on hand." Marvel will do just about anything in order to sell more books. Who was the original artist that drew the picture?
This is probably just a publicity stunt. Betcha they have back up art that just so happens to be "on hand." Marvel will do just about anything in order to sell more books. Who was the original artist that drew the picture?
Nope, this is too stupid of a mistake to be a publicity stunt.
jetter_cheeze
04-21-2005, 07:17 PM
Nope, this is too stupid of a mistake to be a publicity stunt.
And to some, the Princess Di story was blasophemy. But the issues got changed pretty quickly though....
Archer
04-21-2005, 10:17 PM
I've thought this whole story was hilarious from the moment it broke. Huge shame though, as it's such a beautiful cover (the coloured version is my wallpaper right now).
The only thing that smacks of disrespect to me (as opposed to, you know, copyright theft ;) ) is that they didn't change the medals and insignia. I have no idea what any of those medals signify, but if it was a member of the British royal family, I'd be pretty pissed of that someone was ripping off their actual medals like that.
What gets me is why Marvel let this happen anyway - they didn't realise someone would notice? They didn't think anyone in Spain was going to read House of M? How could they be so stupid as to use such an easily recognisable photo without making sure they had permission?
Oh wait, it's Marvel, duh.
Sandoz
04-21-2005, 10:38 PM
What gets me is why Marvel let this happen anyway - they didn't realise someone would notice? They didn't think anyone in Spain was going to read House of M? How could they be so stupid as to use such an easily recognisable photo without making sure they had permission?
Oh wait, it's Marvel, duh.
I admit that I know nothing about editor/artist relations in Marvel, but is it really fair to hold the entire company responsible? Perhaps they knew the artist used photo references, but didn't know how closely the photograph was copied in this case. It still seems rather careless, but I don't think this was an intentional publicity stunt (at least not like X-Statix's Princess Diana story was).
Who was the original artist that drew the picture?
Mike Mayhew.
Archer
04-21-2005, 11:06 PM
I admit that I know nothing about editor/artist relations in Marvel, but is it really fair to hold the entire company responsible? Perhaps they knew the artist used photo references, but didn't know how closely the photograph was copied in this case.
True, it's not all of Marvel's fault - but especially given what a high profile and totally gorgeous cover it is, some editor somewhere should have checked.
I'd be interested to know whether anyone at Marvel other than the artist knew it was a lightbox/photoshop of the King of Spain.
It still seems rather careless, but I don't think this was an intentional publicity stunt (at least not like X-Statix's Princess Diana story was).
Was that a publicity stunt, or was that them trying to tell a funny/bad taste story? I missed the whole thing, but given the bizarre, Evita-like response to Diana's death, I can see how there would be potential for genuine satire (as opposed to just "Hey, let's say Princess Di was a mutant, and people will buy more copies in outrage").
Sandoz
04-21-2005, 11:18 PM
Was that a publicity stunt, or was that them trying to tell a funny/bad taste story? I missed the whole thing, but given the bizarre, Evita-like response to Diana's death, I can see how there would be potential for genuine satire (as opposed to just "Hey, let's say Princess Di was a mutant, and people will buy more copies in outrage").
A little of both, I think. X-Statix was one big satire on fame and the media, and given the nature of Princess Diana's death she seemed like an obvious target for parody. Still, they had to have known what they were getting into when they decided to use Princess Diana herself instead of a fictional analog. It seemed like one big cry for attention.
The House of M cover just seems like a (somewhat) honest mistake by comparison; a lesson in photo-referencing gone too far.
Rachel Grey
04-21-2005, 11:30 PM
I did not know there were that many hispanics on the x board. Cool. :)
If I am offended by anything, it is the lousy job of translating babel fish does.
Hear hear!! Babblefish is like 70s kung fu subtitles, but not as funny.
I've thought this whole story was hilarious from the moment it broke. Huge shame though, as it's such a beautiful cover (the coloured version is my wallpaper right now).
The only thing that smacks of disrespect to me (as opposed to, you know, copyright theft ;) ) is that they didn't change the medals and insignia. I have no idea what any of those medals signify, but if it was a member of the British royal family, I'd be pretty pissed of that someone was ripping off their actual medals like that.
What gets me is why Marvel let this happen anyway - they didn't realise someone would notice? They didn't think anyone in Spain was going to read House of M? How could they be so stupid as to use such an easily recognisable photo without making sure they had permission?
Oh wait, it's Marvel, duh.
i think it would be enough if they changed the medals (the copright thing), but again, i think thats not the important problem. as u said, how could they think nobody in spain was going to see it? its like the artist didnt really care. thats the problem and thats what people thought here. But u know, aside from that, its not something really important, i saw the cover months ago in the internet and i just found it funny.
Kid Seven
04-22-2005, 04:44 AM
Hmmm...Maybe this'll start a contraversial trend in comics where they take a photo reference from a famous figure and controversially combine it with the head of a Marvel character to great publicity and fanfare!
John Paul II and Mephisto?
Bullseye and Helen Keller?
Beast and Disney's Beast? Hmmm...Kinda like that one...
sikkbones
04-22-2005, 07:06 AM
i'm waiting for a mutant pope.
i'm waiting for a mutant pope.
really?? what power do u think he would have?
sikkbones
04-22-2005, 08:33 AM
some light based power obviously.
BlackKnight
04-22-2005, 08:42 AM
Somebody on another board noticed the shadow behind Magento's head is actually the side of the Prime Ministers head from the orginal photo, if that is true, all the artist did was take a photo, put magneto's head in and change some colors.
God that is almost stupid enough to be true.
sikkbones
04-22-2005, 08:53 AM
you mean this photo?http://fotos.miarroba.com/fotos/4/d/4da6017c.jpg
BlackKnight
04-22-2005, 08:55 AM
you mean this photo?http://fotos.miarroba.com/fotos/4/d/4da6017c.jpg
No I meant another photo, yes that photo. :rolleyes:
HellFrost
04-22-2005, 09:08 AM
I did not know there were that many hispanics on the x board. Cool. :)
If I am offended by anything, it is the lousy job of translating babel fish does.
Yupperz!
I'm Cuban and Spanish(yes... from Spain). REPRESENTIN'!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
A more fundamental problem between the real photo & the Magneto one is that the artist used a photo with an active copyright; Marvel & the artist did not get Spain's permission to use the king's likeness. Therefore, a lawsuit is more than likely & when The Pulse issue is released in July, the Magneto photo will not be used. Or Marvel may have to fork over a large amount of money to even use the plagiarized photocopy. Yes, this is a sad example of plagiarism of the highest order.
Neolucifer
04-22-2005, 09:17 AM
My only problem with that photo is Marvel not even asking authorizations , copyrights or not .
As for the photo being simply photoshopped , or redrawn using it as a reference do we really care ?? Many people do that , without us not even noticing , and of course without shouting their source of inspiration . Marvel was just dumb to get such an easy to trace photo . or were they ? And isnt it instead a cheap publicity stunt ?
Anyway i'm still glad they did it , that "drawing" looks really great .
My only problem with that photo is Marvel not even asking authorizations , copyrights or not .
As for the photo being simply photoshopped , or redrawn using it as a reference do we really care ?? Many people do that , without us not even noticing , and of course without shouting their source of inspiration . Marvel was just dumb to get such an easy to trace photo . or were they ? And isnt it instead a cheap publicity stunt ?
Anyway i'm still glad they did it , that "drawing" looks really great .
Marvel has to get permission since the copyright is active. When one uses copyrighted material, the company has to get permission from the source. In this case, Marvel had to get permission from Spain's royal family. They did not. Therefore, Marvel is going to be sued.
Marvel would have done the same if any of their characters were used without permission.
Kid Seven
04-22-2005, 12:43 PM
Marvel would have done the same if any of their characters were used without permission.
LOL. I just imagined Juan Carlos' head on, say, Wolverine's body, and then the image hung in a post office. :rolleyes:
Disclaimer: I'm half Spainsh. There, it's out.
BoosterBronze
04-22-2005, 12:52 PM
the biggest unanswered question is, who gave Magneto medals?
Kid Seven
04-22-2005, 12:59 PM
The Spanish government of course, for his bravery in helping to conquer the New World and in helping safely guide the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria. :rolleyes:
Emerald Ghost
04-22-2005, 03:38 PM
Disclaimer: I'm half Spainsh. There, it's out.
You say that as if it were a bad thing.
Spanish chicks are hot... :D
xmanson
04-22-2005, 03:50 PM
Really, this is just stupid.
Neolucifer
04-22-2005, 05:10 PM
Marvel has to get permission since the copyright is active. When one uses copyrighted material, the company has to get permission from the source. In this case, Marvel had to get permission from Spain's royal family. They did not. Therefore, Marvel is going to be sued.
What i was saying is that even without a copyright being active , it would be classy to ask or even notify of the future use of the picture .
Erik Lehnsherr
04-22-2005, 05:13 PM
To the non-comic book fan, Magneto is a mutant terrorist; therefore, I can see why the Spanish prime minister is a little upset. I'm sure Joe Quesada will use the controversy to sell more books... :rolleyes:
This is yet another example of Marvel being incredibly lazy. The artist can use the source photo for the inspiration, but he should have changed Magneto's clothes & medals to make it appear less of a straight copy from the photo itself.
Nah. That's not true. Casual fans don't know Magneto as any terrorist. Not if they seen his portrayals in Animated series, movies, and the video games.
Archer
04-22-2005, 05:20 PM
i'm waiting for a mutant pope.
Chuck Austen tried, but the evil disintigrator communion wafers didn't work out.
Nightcrawler
04-22-2005, 05:31 PM
Marvel couold have at least made a *slightly* different posture.
Emerald Ghost
04-22-2005, 05:58 PM
Marvel couold have at least made a *slightly* different posture.
What do you mean "made"? All they did was copy mags face onto the body...
James 'Logan' Howlett
04-22-2005, 07:19 PM
Marvel deserves to be sued. Go Spain!!
Marvel goes after the creators of "City of Heroes" just because some characters looked a little bit like their super heroes. Yet, they have some hack artist rip off a picture of an important figurehead from Spain and do a Photoshop cut and paste job to create Magneto.
Pathetic.
The Karma gun is aimed at Marvel, and I hope the results are a double barrel blast to the face.
Tag06
04-22-2005, 08:47 PM
Marvel deserves to be sued. Go Spain!!
Marvel goes after the creators of "City of Heroes" just because some characters looked a little bit like their super heroes. Yet, they have some hack artist rip off a picture of an important figurehead from Spain and do a Photoshop cut and paste job to create Magneto.
Pathetic.
The Karma gun is aimed at Marvel, and I hope the results are a double barrel blast to the face.
I must agree, Marvel brought this upon themselves. Karma is a b#tch.
cosmicspidey
04-22-2005, 09:52 PM
If all Mike Mayhew did was paint Magneto's face and Photoshop it onto the photo in question, that is a problem. If Mayhew completely recreated the image from scratch, that's not. The actual photo in question is copyrighted, the concept of the king is not. The pose is not. The wallpaper is not. The medals...well, someone said earlier they might be, so that could be a problem. But if the only copyright is on the original portrait, and Mike Mayhew repainted the entire thing (and as far as I can tell, the original is a photograph and Mayhew's is a painting), there is no problem. A legal problem anyway.
Is it in poor taste? That's a judgement call. For all we know, the Magneto in House of M is one of the greatest human beings to ever walk the Earth. It's an alternate reality after all, isn't it? (Isn't it? That's the only explanation I have for the previews I've seen.) But it's not like the image is so universally known that everyone is going to think the King of Spain is being portrayed as a terrorist. I would have never known it if Spain hadn't have said something.
vBulletin® v3.6.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.