The Multiverse... YAY or NAY and WHY?

[The Shadow]

I'm against the return of the multiverse personally. I like that all the characters exist in the same world and can interact. I always HATED the lame plot devices that got characters from one dimension to the next. There shouldn't be some lame ass "fly backwards around the world three times with your eyes closed to go visit Captain Marvel on Earth XYZ."

Adding the multiverse characters to the regular universe cleaned up continuity as well... only people that LOOK for things that don't fit get pissed at it. I've followed DC before, during and after Crisis and honestly I never had a hard time keeping it straight either way... but I have enjoyed NOT having to wonder if the story will effect one Earth or another at some point (because some stuff did... and some didn't) because its all one happy universe now!

I think Crisis was good for DC but wish they would stop trying to "fix" it. There's too much to "fix" (DC's been around since 1937!!) and they should just get back to telling good stories that don't rely on the mega-crossover gimmick. It's been 20 YEARS... they need to move past looking for problems (and ignore the continuity crazy fans a bit more) and just focus on good stories!

What say the rest of you... and WHY???

[AlanScott606]

I voted no, I like the Idea of the entire DCU being aware of the big events and even the smaller events, and not having to worry which earth is each event happening on and so forth.

I like to see all of the interaction between the Heroes and Villians of the DCU.

[Forsaken_One]

I'm torn. On the one hand I like having all the heros in one universe. It gives it a sense of being, well, one world. Actions in a comic can affect another comic.

On the other hand I think a lot of the heros, like Captain Marvel, would do a hell of a lot better in their own world. Mind you that'd mean no crossovers in my mind; by the end of the Earth 1/Earth 2/Earth X thing each "Earth" was just another geographical destination, I'd rather have Captain Marvel in his own universe in the same way the Ultimate line works or in the same way Transmetropoliton is in it's own universe. Not multiverse, not hypertime, just it's own bloody universe.

And on the other hand, the invisible one that you don't want to know where I keep, I don't really give a **** so long as the stories are good. So I'm going with "don't care."

[Paradox]

Sure, why not? Don't care if they don't, though.

[Viking Bastard]

I have nothing against a multiverse, but I'm not that hot on the pre-crisis one.

[Dreadstar]

I'm a yes kinda guy. I think that Crisis was a big big mistake.

Silver Age stuff too hokey? Ignore it.

[dancj]

They were right to condense it into one universe when they did Crisis and if they created a new multiverse - or actually made more use of hypertime that would be right. If in 20 years they decide to condence it into one then that would be right too.

Keep things changing!!!

[sixstringguild]

I voted no. Just use the Elseworlds brand to create stories w/ variants on Batman, Superman, etc.

I think that if the rumors are true that they're bringing back the multiverse, it's to capitalize on newer versions of Batman and Superman they can make. They can put a Batman and Superman of some sort on JSA or whereever else...

[JeffreyWKramer]

Absolutely. While many CRISIS-initiated changes don't work out too badly (while the JSA having its own world was very cool, the legacy thing allowed by a single world is also good), some characters and concepts - most notably the Marvel Family - really work better within a relatively self-contained continuity. This preserves both the distinctive feel and tone of those characters and their "specialness"; the World's Mightiest Mortals really can't make that claim as part of the greater DCU earth.

[The Shadow]

some characters and concepts - most notably the Marvel Family - really work better within a relatively self-contained continuity.
Why not just limit the interaction with the rest of the DCU? Billy can still work at a radio station etc., but the DCU heroes/villains only apear once in a while? I'm sure a writer or editor could make sure that happened... it's not like everyone (I say this as Captain MArvel is teaming up with Superman...) is using Captain Marvel... and his JSA stint was fun!

I'm surprised (so far) that the YES's are winning! Must be the old fogies voting! LOL

[Jim Yost]

Honestly, and this is bearing in mind that I LOVE interconnected universes, 1 continuity, and Crisis on Infinite Earths as a story (and the novel which I'm reading right now), I think the Multiverse is better, if only because it at least allows for separation of characters.

The thing is, I think if it's gonna be there, it should go beyond what it was pre-1985; that is, I think the "Bat Books" should occupy their own universe, separate from the Superman books, both separate from JLA, and so on so that the characters can be all they can be without the interference of other characters.

This is just due to the fact that the older and more disillusioned I get, I just feel like a guy who puts on a Bat costume and kicks street thugs and criminal masterminds' butts is gonna take one look at Darkseid and Superman and say, "you know what? i'm outta my league." Whereas a guy who teleports to and from the Watchtower can be the hyperintellectual human part of a team that gets involved in those same adventures... but that being the same guy in the same universe with the same experiences... I dunno; I feel like the multiverse would allow for better use of things. Say make Batman of Earth B be the urban legend of Gotham in a world where actual superhumans are few & far between, and the Batman of Earth L be the 2nd in command of the JLA w/ Superman.

Or maybe I'm outta my mind.

[frankiedetroit]

It doesn't matter to me, largely because the multiverse already exists. Like Forsaken one said, you have the Vertigo line, which really doesn't intersect with the other lines, and Elseworlds, which also doesn't crossover. Marvel's multiple realities (including, thanks to Busiek, DC) have never created problems--as long as the Ultimates don't meet the Avengers that is. There is no reason DC's should either. And as Dreadstar indicated, I doubt the plot devices to reach the otherverses will be as lame as they were pre-Crisis. Even if they use the same devices, they won't be as lame because the writers know their audience contains more 40 year olds than 10 year olds.

[sixstringguild]

Maybe this Infinite Crisis is going to result in an actual "ultimate" DC universe...

[justcrash]

I voted nay. I enjoy everyone being on the same earth a lot more. I think the people who want it back are looking through the same rose colored glasses I look at my silver age JLA, etc in. I just think its too much of a Deux ex Machina thing.

[BoosterBronze]

What we have going now, with one universe, and writers kind of playing with it (Morrison's Earth 2) seems like it could work. Hell, they brough back Krypto.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Why not just limit the interaction with the rest of the DCU? Billy can still work at a radio station etc., but the DCU heroes/villains only apear once in a while? I'm sure a writer or editor could make sure that happened... it's not like everyone (I say this as Captain MArvel is teaming up with Superman...) is using Captain Marvel... and his JSA stint was fun!

I'm surprised (so far) that the YES's are winning! Must be the old fogies voting! LOL

Just because they don't interact, being in the same setting still removes the specialness. You can't be the World's Mightiest Mortal if there are people in other cities just as strong or stronger, and Fawcett City's Mightiest Mortal just doesn't have the same ring.

Cap's JSA stint wasn't bad, but part of the distinctive CM feel - the humor, the whimsy - was definitely absent.

[Viking Bastard]

While I prefer the condensed DCU where the JSA, JLA and such coexists, I
do agree that the Marvel family works better in it's independant continuity
and should be pushed out of the DCU to their own Earth, with perhaps the
exception of Shazam himself, who can coexist in both worlds.

So I'm game with a new Multiverse, I just don't want the old one back.

If they're gonna do it, they should stay retcon free. Just go on like nothing
special happened. Everything that happened, still did. They remember the
Marvels. The Marvels existed. They still exist, kinda. They just went away.

Though I mostly just want an All-Stars Shazam! title by Morrison.


EDIT: Heh. Post 666.

[offrampclimber]

I agree that the multiverse already does exist too, with Elseworlds, Wildstorm, Vertigo, etc., just without the name. But I just don't like the idea of there being more that one DCU proper, where multiple Supermans, Batmans, etc. are crossing over to team up with different versions of themselves, which is what I get the feeling that the pre-crisis DCU did. I mean, the multiverse seems to have been given its structure and name just because people wanted it all to fit, and when a character started acting different, looking different, slightly different origin, they simply started saying that it was a different Earth than this last story, so it's okay.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Elseworlds stuff, I'm looking forward to the All-Stars series coming up, but I can also take in the fact that they're just stories and don't need to be involved in some sort of singular all-encompassing continuity a la the Grandiose Multiverse.

[glennsim]

I don't care if they have a single universe or a multiverse, as long as they reboot everything so it's clear what's in continuity and what isn't.

[Lorendiac]

A few days ago, in a thread over on the X-Books forum, someone was arguing that Peter Parker and Mary Jane should have been allowed to have and raise their child, so that we could really see Spider-Man continuing to change and mature as he became a good family man. I said in response:

My basic feeling is that if you want to see Spider-Man and his wife, mature, change, raise kids, etc., that's exactly what you can get in the "alternate timeline" Spider-Girl title written by Tom DeFalco, just as it was what you could get with Batman and Wonder Woman (and to some extent Superman) in the old Earth-2 continuity from the Pre-Crisis era, where the Golden Age versions of DC's heroes had aged "in realtime" ever since the World War II era of the 1940s. Basically, Earth-1 and Earth-2 in those days were "Earth-Maintain the Sacred Status Quo" and "Earth-Our Heroes Are Getting Older and Raising Families!" respectively. If I look at it from that perspective, it seems the Crisis on Infinite Earths was a huge mistake, and it also seems that Marvel would do well to establish its own version of "Earth-Our Heroes Are Getting Older and Raising Families!" so it could stick to stories such as you mention about Daredevil revealing his identity and getting married and all that (I haven't actually read that one, but I heard a little about it) and "let it stand" on the Earth where Spidey was no longer perpetually in his 20s and Captain America and Daredevil were no longer perpetually in their 30s (after probably being in their late twenties for the first several years of their costumed careers in the Silver Age era).

I think that sums up my reasons for wanting the Multiverse back, at least the Earth-1 and Earth-2 parts of it in one form or another (Grant Morrison's Earth-2 doesn't count; it's only the equivalent of Earth-3 in the Pre-Crisis Multiverse.)

What I said above:
Earth-1 was Earth-Maintain the Sacred Status Quo.
Earth-2 was Earth-Our Heroes are Getting Older and Raising Families!

Since the Crisis, the "mainstream DCU" has basically been Earth-Maintain the Sacred Status Quo, as far as I'm concerned - with some exceptions, granted, but not nearly enough. You can keep adding more and more costumed sidekicks and copycats to Batman's continuity, but you can't really change Batman himself (letting him get married, have kids of his own, raise them, etc.) If we got back the equivalent of the old Earth-2, we could actually have a Huntress who was the daughter of Bruce Wayne, for instance, and other variations on that theme in the lives of other superheroes who didn't have something Drastic change in their lives today, and then get it retconned away again to be a thing of the past (or never haoppened at all) tomorrow.

[Dave Cote]

I don't feel strongly one way or the other.Some characters just work better on the own and should live in their own world the Marvels for example.I think The Punisher title at Marvel is the perfect example he is still The Punisher ther just really isn't any mention of most of the rest of Marvel and the Nick Fury who appears in that title definetley isn't the Nick Fury of Capt. America or Secret War. There no real explination for this and I think that fine.As long as I enjoy what I'm reading I don't need to know anything else.

[The Shadow]

What I said above:
Earth-1 was Earth-Maintain the Sacred Status Quo.
Earth-2 was Earth-Our Heroes are Getting Older and Raising Families!
Why not just tell Elseworlds stories then?

[Lorendiac]

Why not just tell Elseworlds stories then?

Because all the Elseworlds stories I have seen are far too short to satisfy the need that Earth-2 continuity filled in the Pre-Crisis DC Multiverse.

The longest Elseworlds stories that I can remember ever reading were probably 192 pages of storytelling apiece, with a single exception I'll get to in a minute.

I'm thinking of ones that were originally published as 4 issues of 48 pages each. I believe that includes Kingdom Come, Frank Miller's DKR, James Robinson's the Golden Age. (Yes, I know Miller's DKR didn't say "Elseworlds" on it, but that's only because the Elseworlds logo hadn't been invented yet).

The single exception would depend on how you classify the first and second Superman/Batman: Generations miniseries by John Byrne. (I read the first two issues of the third one and then lost interest in a hurry.) The first and second were each published as 4 48-pagers, same as the others I mentioned, but were set in the same timeline and could be regarded as one larger series, which would kick the total up to 384 pages (not counting Generations 3, which I can't really comment on because I still haven't read much of it).

For developing a world where Big Name Superheroes are raising families, one little graphic novel at a time that has nothing to do with any other story ever published just doesn't satisfy that craving for me.

What I miss about Roy Thomas's Infinity Inc. and other stories set in Earth-2 is not just that they would give us a glimpse at "Batman's Daughter" or "Wonder Woman's Daughter" for a few months during one quick miniseries, but would really develop a whole separate world of "continuity" about different generations of superheroes interacting with each other, as well as the JSA/JLA teamups where the older generation would get to compare notes with younger analogs of themselves. There were all sorts of story ideas that could take place in a world where DC wasn't petrified with fear at the thought of showing Significant and Permanent Change occurring to one of its cash cows. It worked better if all these ideas took place in the same world, so that it developed its own distinct continuity with things that happened in one Earth-2 story being reflected and referred to in other Earth-2 stories years later.

[Captain Jim]

I understand why DC did what they did in Crisis and I thought it was a good idea at the time. Now I'm not so sure. In any case, what's done is done and I think it would be a huge mistake to try to reverse things twenty years later. And I will be really, really shocked if DC *does* try to bring the multiverse back.

[Lorendiac]

I understand why DC did what they did in Crisis and I thought it was a good idea at the time. Now I'm not so sure. In any case, what's done is done and I think it would be a huge mistake to try to reverse things twenty years later. And I will be really, really shocked if DC *does* try to bring the multiverse back.

I also understood the rationale at the time - or at least, a couple of years later, after I became aware of it. (Wasn't buying Crisis or any other comics regularly at the time the series came out.) Of course, at the time I first realized what they had done, I had never read any issues of Infinity Inc. and thus didn't realize just how badly Roy Thomas had the rug pulled out from under him by what they did to Earth-2 in the Crisis.

I have become convinced DC made a mistake, but I freely admit that's hindsight many years after the fact.

On the "what's done is done" part, I think DC and Marvel have both made it clear over the last several years that "What's done is done, until we undo it, which we would prefer you fanboys swallow without objection, over and over and over!" ;) If I may mention something from the Batman forum based on the latest issue to come out (Batman#638 SPOILERS):

Over there we're currently discussing something else that seemed like a very Significant and Permanent Change when it happened many years ago in the 1980s and became a key part of continuity, and is now being shamelessly undone with no particular excuse provided now or anytime soon. A lot of people (myself included!) feel that DC should have taken the "What's done is done" approach, but they didn't.

Heck, when I first read about Mark Waid's creation of Hypertime, my first reaction was, okay, what he's basically saying is "Let's undo Crisis on Infinite Earths for all practical purposes, but to be polite, we won't say that we are Restoring the Infinite Earths of the Multiverse! We'll just say that we are Discovering the Many Timelines of Hypertime!"

I don't feel it would be a huge mistake to reverse themselves more blatantly on the Crisis thing (I see Waid's Hypertime as a softer, gentler approach to at least "opening the door" for other stories to do much the same thing), but I do agree that in practice, I really don't expect to see Infinite Crisis restore the old Multiverse the way I remember it (or do anything even remotely similar to that, frankly). In fact, my expectations for Infinite Crisis are a) very vague, and b) very low, any way you look at it!

[Captain Jim]

On the "what's done is done" part, I think DC and Marvel have both made it clear over the last several years that "What's done is done, until we undo it, which we would prefer you fanboys swallow without objection, over and over and over!" ;)

I'm not sure if you're getting my point. I'm not suggesting that the decision was irreversible. I'm simply saying that a) you can't pretend that the last twenty years never happened, b) to try to now re-divide earths that were combined and to undo twenty years of history would be a herculean task and c) to attempt to do so would be be a case of bad judgement on par with or greater than the original decision to combine the earths in the first place (IMO).

[David O Burcham]

I'm not sure if you're getting my point. I'm not suggesting that the decision was irreversible. I'm simply saying that a) you can't pretend that the last twenty years never happened, b) to try to now re-divide earths that were combined and to undo twenty years of history would be a herculean task and c) to attempt to do so would be be a case of bad judgement on par with or greater than the original decision to combine the earths (IMO).

I agree with you to an extent.

It don't feel that the legacy aspect of "JSA generation ... inspired JLA generation ... inspired Teen Titans/Current Outsiders generation ... inspired Young Justice/Current Teen Titans generation ... inspired Legion generation of the future" that revolves around the characters created specifically for the DCU should be changed. I like it!

However, I think the Fawcett, Charlton, Quality and even the Impact/Archie characters (does DC still own the rights to publish Fly, Sheild, Jaguar etc.?) would be better suited with a separate alternate Earth.

Earth-A (for "Aquisition" :) )

[sikkbones]

Honestly, and this is bearing in mind that I LOVE interconnected universes, 1 continuity, and Crisis on Infinite Earths as a story (and the novel which I'm reading right now), I think the Multiverse is better, if only because it at least allows for separation of characters.

The thing is, I think if it's gonna be there, it should go beyond what it was pre-1985; that is, I think the "Bat Books" should occupy their own universe, separate from the Superman books, both separate from JLA, and so on so that the characters can be all they can be without the interference of other characters.

This is just due to the fact that the older and more disillusioned I get, I just feel like a guy who puts on a Bat costume and kicks street thugs and criminal masterminds' butts is gonna take one look at Darkseid and Superman and say, "you know what? i'm outta my league." Whereas a guy who teleports to and from the Watchtower can be the hyperintellectual human part of a team that gets involved in those same adventures... but that being the same guy in the same universe with the same experiences... I dunno; I feel like the multiverse would allow for better use of things. Say make Batman of Earth B be the urban legend of Gotham in a world where actual superhumans are few & far between, and the Batman of Earth L be the 2nd in command of the JLA w/ Superman.

Or maybe I'm outta my mind.

have you seen my dc contuinity thread?
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=52717&highlight=contuinity

[glennsim]

Recent discussions have caused me to suspect something.

I think higher-up editors sometimes set up the status for the DCU so that rules are in place for writers to follow, but then don't handle the details on a case-by-case basis.

For example, they did Crisis because they felt the readers wanted a more integrated universe. Which, in turn, forces the writers to tell stories in that manner. But then they didn't make sure the individual stories made sense with each other.

It's sorta like they are afraid to tell a writer what they can or can't do, so they hire other writers to do it for them. But it doesn't work.

Just a thought...

[LukeRed5]

Being a DC fan that has only read DC Post-Crisis, I would love to see the Multiverse come back, but I can definitely see it getting out of hand.

[The Shadow]

You can't be the World's Mightiest Mortal if there are people in other cities just as strong or stronger, and Fawcett City's Mightiest Mortal just doesn't have the same ring.
Who's a mightier MORTAL than Shazam in the DCU?

Anyone I can think of is an alien or a god

[Ian J.N.]

I'm not sure if you're getting my point. I'm not suggesting that the decision was irreversible. I'm simply saying that a) you can't pretend that the last twenty years never happened, b) to try to now re-divide earths that were combined and to undo twenty years of history would be a herculean task and c) to attempt to do so would be be a case of bad judgement on par with or greater than the original decision to combine the earths in the first place (IMO).
You know, if they did want to bring back the multiverse as it was, it'd be simple as cake. Call the current DCU Earth-0, and.. well that's it. Earth-1, Earth-2, and the like would be exactly as they were. If they want to get fancy they could say that Earth-0 is a focal point of sorts; a quantum sum of all worlds.

Wow, I've had a productive day. I'm taking a nap.

[Forsaken_One]

Who's a mightier MORTAL than Shazam in the DCU?

Anyone I can think of is an alien or a god
The first definition of "mortal" in dictionary.com is "Liable or subject to death." And Superman fits that definition, as does Martin Manhunter and many, many others.

But even ignoring that and going with "mortal = human" we've still got all the various Green Lanterns around, plus Flash, plus Wonder Woman (she is human as I recall), Wonder Girl, Troia, Linda Davner's Supergirl, Power Girl (maybe), Entrigan, Plastic Man... you get the idea.

[sikkbones]

The first definition of "mortal" in dictionary.com is "Liable or subject to death." And Superman fits that definition, as does Martin Manhunter and many, many others.

But even ignoring that and going with "mortal = human" we've still got all the various Green Lanterns around, plus Flash, plus Wonder Woman (she is human as I recall), Wonder Girl, Troia, Linda Davner's Supergirl, Power Girl (maybe), Entrigan, Plastic Man... you get the idea.
nobody dies forever in the DCU.. except barry allen...

[Forsaken_One]

nobody dies forever in the DCU.. except barry allen...
Eh, they still die though. Ressurection doesn't change that any.

[DMike]

Even the immortals are liable to death eventually. The only thing that'll never die is Death herself, and even then she has avatars that die once a century.

[Lorendiac]

I'm not sure if you're getting my point. I'm not suggesting that the decision was irreversible. I'm simply saying that a) you can't pretend that the last twenty years never happened, b) to try to now re-divide earths that were combined and to undo twenty years of history would be a herculean task and c) to attempt to do so would be be a case of bad judgement on par with or greater than the original decision to combine the earths in the first place (IMO).

Okay, here we run into a need to define terms. Regarding the question in the title of this thread, what exactly would it mean, in terms of changing or erasing pieces of the "continuity" of the last twenty years of DC titles, if we overwhelmingly voted in favor of "restoring the Multiverse" and if DC took us up on it and actually did it?

Short and Simple Answer: "Gee, come to think of it . . . I don't know!"

When I voted "YES!" as I entered the thread, I didn't really stop to think any deep thoughts about all the nitpicking details of how my "Yes" might be put into effect at this late date.

But you're bound and determined to make me think things through and figure out just what it is that I want, aren't you? Slavedriver! ;)

Hmmm. If I don't know exactly what I would hope to see, perhaps I can attack the problem from the other direction by listing some of the things I definitely didn't mean when I voted for the Multiverse's hypothetical return.

1. I don't require all the stories DC has published as part of its Post-Crisis continuity for almost 20 years now to be flushed down the toilet. When Crisis happened, that was what they did with anything and everything they'd previously published in the way of Superman and Wonder Woman stories. A bold move, but I don't require they make such a sacrifice all over again on a larger scale! (Nor do I think it likely. Although there's a lot of Post-Crisis continuity which I would cheer if I saw erased.)

Turning back the clock to around late 1984 in every single character's continuity, and then saying, "Okay, this time we'll do it right, picking up on every dangling plot thread and resolving it differently!" is an interesting idea in theory, but I can easily live without it.

2. I don't require that all the stories DC has published as part of its Post-Crisis continuity for almost 20 years now be mangled by forcibly and retroactively separating their various characters back to their "original", native alternate timelines or parallel worlds. If it were done that way, it would basically mean that anything DC published prior to its Silver Age, plus anything done in the next fifty years or so that featured characters from the Golden Age and/or their offspring and proteges (such as the All-Star Squadron, the short stories about Huntress in Wonder Woman's title, Infinity Inc., and of course such stuff as the modern JSA series) would be forcibly retconned over into Earth-2, separate from things that have happened simultaneously to Silver Age and Post-Crisis characters such as the modern versions of Batman and Superman and Wonder Woman, the JLA in all its incarnations, the Titans in all their incarnations, etc.

The idea has a certain appeal for me, but I recognize what a nightmare it would be for anyone trying to preserve some shreds of the "old continuity" of the last 20 years and reconcile it to the idea that Jade, for instance, doesn't really live in the same world as the modern Outsiders, after all!

3. I don't require DC to completely erase ALL of its continuity and old stories ever since the 1930s, and reboot everything and everybody from Day One. Marv Wolfman has said things that suggest he would have liked to see this happen more than it did after Crisis on Infinite Earths, not just to Superman and Wonder Woman, but on a much larger scale, throwing away much or all of the tangled old continuity and starting over fresh for a modern era. But most writers and editors apparently didn't favor the idea on their own titles, so it didn't happen that way. I can understand why not, and I figure it's even less likely to happen in the near future.

Again, I can see a certain grandeur to the idea of such a sweeping Retcon Erasure and Total Reboot, with different characters now experiencing their "new and improved" origin stories in different parallel worlds in different decades "for the first time", but as above, I can live without all that sacrifice on DC's part if I have to.

In the course of writing that down, by the process of elimination and by trying to think of "precedents" in the way other writers and editors have fiddled around with old continuity of a particular character, series, universe, etc., I'm starting to get some ideas about what I might actually hope to see in a new Multiverse. But I think I'll just post what I've got now, to show some of the stuff I've decided I wouldn't mean by restoring the Multiverse (or building a new one), and I'll come back to this thread at some later time when I've got other ideas sorted out properly.

[stealthwise]

You know, if they did want to bring back the multiverse as it was, it'd be simple as cake. Call the current DCU Earth-0, and.. well that's it. Earth-1, Earth-2, and the like would be exactly as they were. If they want to get fancy they could say that Earth-0 is a focal point of sorts; a quantum sum of all worlds.

Wow, I've had a productive day. I'm taking a nap.

Perfect point actually. It wouldn't take much to remove certain characters from "Earth 0" also, by either killing them, putting them into limbo or whatever.

[comic_lover]

I have nothing against a multiverse, but I'm not that hot on the pre-crisis one. Darn straight skippy on that one.... :cool:

[Ontir]

If they bring back the Multiverse concept, it ought to be one in which the Fawcett, Charlton, and Quality characters inhabit one world, the traditional DCU, another, and the Tangent a third, with Stan Lee's versions on a 4th, and the evil versions on a 5th, the Wildstorm Universe on a 6th, etc.

The reason I'd split the heroes off, is that there's alot of overlap with characters like Firestorm, Firehawk, Ray, Ray II, Captain, Atom, and Breach, whose powers are either identical, or pretty bloody similar. Also, the charcters of each line, could be given their own books, and continuity, and given a better chance to stand out in less crowded universes.

All that said, I don't think it's going to happen.

[Chris Lang]

Personally, I think the biggest mistake DC did with its previous multiverse was name the Earths with numbers. Costumed heroes sprung up on the JSA's world before the JLA's world, but it was the JLA's world that was called 'Earth 1'. Of course, Julius Schwartz, Gardner Fox, and the rest realized this...after it was too late to change.

Ideally, the DC Universe would have about four, five, or six active Earths for storytelling purposes. They would be as follows:

Earth JLA: This is the world where the 'main' Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern Corps, and so on live. The Doom Patrol, Zatanna, and others in the 'mystical' community would also live here, but they'd be signifigantly different from their counterparts on Earth Vertigo.

Earth JSA: This is the world where the JSA (both the original heroes and their younger proteges and so on) live. Costumed heroes first appeared on this Earth around the time of World War Two. Through various fantastic means (suspended animation, time warps, spells or scientific experiments that slow the aging process), many of the original JSA members are still vital enough to do their part in saving the day every now and then.

Earth Shazam: This is where the Marvel family and their various friends and enemies live. Captain Marvel is basically this world's answer to Superman.

Earth Vertigo: This is a 'darker' version of the DC Universe. Here dwells John Constantine, Swamp Thing, darker versions of Zatanna, the Doom Patrol, and many of the 'mystical' community. I'm tempted to say that the 'darker', morally questionable JLA introduced in Identity Crisis lives here (along with the 'sicker' villains such as the Dr. Light introduced in Identity Crisis). Crossovers between this Earth and any other Earths on this list would be few and far between.

Earth C: Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew live here, of course. Unfortunately, they've had to suffer through their own version of the Crisis on Infinite Earths, and thus their world has been merged with Earth C Minus. This means the Justa Lotta Animals and their adversaries (funny animal versions of the Justice League and all) now live on the same Earth as the Zoo Crew.

Earth Prime: The world where all the characters in all the other Earths are just characters in comic books.

And then there'd be some Earths which would have only one series set on it, such as Earth Amethyst (where Amethyst Princess of Gemworld lives in her alter ego -- I felt it was a mistake to incorporate her into the DC Universe), Earth Inferior Five, and Earth Ambush Bug (in the Ambush Bug reboot, Irwin Schwab would be a comic book geek before getting the Ambush Bug costume and the ability to teleport; he would then teleport to all the other Earths on the list, and thus annoy Superman, Supergirl, and the rest every once in a while, before returning to be a comic super-hero on his own world).

And aside from these, there would, of course, be the Elseworlds.

I think this would be a somewhat easy to understand new DC Multiverse. Did I leave any important Earths out?

Chris Lang

[The Shadow]

Earth JLA: This is the world where ... The Doom Patrol, Zatanna, and others in the 'mystical' community would also live here, but they'd be signifigantly different from their counterparts on Earth Vertigo.
But won't that create problems for NEW readers? Which Zantanna are they reading? Why the difference etc.? Wasn't that one of the reasons for Crisis? To simplify it and boil it all down to ONE earth?

Earth Prime: The world where all the characters in all the other Earths are just characters in comic books.
Same problem here as above. What if a writer had a cool story that COULD involve BAtman? Does this earth now get a "Batman" for the arc? Or is there some lame ass dimensional travel Batman that goes between earths and helps where he's needed? OR should the writer not write the awesome story because it would involve Batman thus denying DC money and us a good story?

I think this would be a somewhat easy to understand new DC Multiverse. Did I leave any important Earths out?
The not-confusing earth! LOL :p

[Lorendiac]

You know, Marvel and DC started doing teamups with each other's characters in the 1970s, with a pair of Superman/Spider-Man teamups, and others later. They didn't bother with any fancy-schmancy excuses about interdimensional travel and continuity in the pages of those stories. In the Superman/Spider-Man teamups it was made clear that Supes lived in Metropolis, and Spidey lived in another East Coast city (New York) and now they were bumping into each other. When Spidey met Wonder Woman in the second one, he thought something like, "She used to hang out in New York - wonder why I never met her? Oh well, it's a big town!" And that was all we were going to hear on the subject of why they had never met before :)

Of course, DC didn't have permission to refer to Spider-Man afterwards in any subsequent Superman stories in his own titles, and Marvel didn't have permission to have Spider-Man reminisce about all the fun times he'd had with Superman and Wonder Woman, either. But if you still wanted to remember those stories as "having really happened" in each character's continuity, you could remember it that way. Who was going to stop you?

Something similar could be done regarding Batman just popping up without any special "excuse" for it in other parallel Earths on special occasions, just like his meetings from past years with the Hulk, Spawn, the Punisher, Danger Girl, Spider-Man, the Darkness, Witchblade (actually a JLA teamup, but he was part of it), Daredevil, and probably lots of other people from different universes that I'm forgetting.

[Chris Lang]

Of course, DC didn't have permission to refer to Spider-Man afterwards in any subsequent Superman stories in his own titles, and Marvel didn't have permission to have Spider-Man reminisce about all the fun times he'd had with Superman and Wonder Woman, either. But if you still wanted to remember those stories as "having really happened" in each character's continuity, you could remember it that way. Who was going to stop you?

True. However, I believe the first issue of WHAT IF? (original series) had the Watcher say that it was debatable whether or not Spider-Man's meeting with a certain red-and-blue costumed hero occured in the 'main' reality or in some alternate reality.

But yes, you're right. Since this is fiction, you can pretty much accept what you want as being 'real'.

Chris Lang

[Damo]

Define "Multiverse"...

[Effect]

I vote yes they should bring it back. Mainly cause it would clear up a LOT of continity issues if several titles existed in their own worlds. Writers would have more freedom in telling stories since they wouldn't have to worry about not meshing with another writers work. Different universes so you can destory that part of the world to tell your story or kill off this villian or hero to further a storyline. Different world so no problem while the writer in the other world keeps right on going with those characters that were killed.

For this to work though titles have to be clearly labeled what Earth and universe they take place in. For some sense of continiuty though some characters and titles should be linked together for the sake of maintaining some unity (if only for crossovers where you can easily team up more then one character).

I can see why a person woldn't want them back since havin all the heroes in one world makes it so much larger, however I think it really limits them as well. I see more positives out of a multiverse then negatives (do think there are some).

[TROUBLEZ]

It's a tough choice. I like how the DCU has some history now. For example, the Flash mythos are richer now, with the Speed Force, the original Flash, Max Mecury, etc. I also like how the 40s era of the DCU had their heroes as well, so it doesn't just start with Superman, Batman and Wonderwoman. The only problems are Superboy and the Legion, Wonderwoman's exact age combined with Wondergirls, and why Superman, after first appearing in Metropolis, would create such a hubub. Wouldn't the public just think, "oh another flying hero"? And Captain Marvel occupying the same universe as Superman doesn't seem right. Especially when he has the ridiculous sounding Fawcett City. Oh ya, and Hawkman. Poor Katar.
But despite the problems, I think we gain alot more by having it all one universe.

Actually after reading Chris Lang's list of Universes, maybe that's the one to go with. Doesn't seem too conviluted.

I change my mind, I would like to see the multiverses back just like Earth-JSA, Earth-JLA, Earth-Shazam and Earth Vertigo.

As long as there are no Earth JSA versions of Supes and Batman, etc. But damn! there goes the Legion...

[Green Lantern wannabe]

I would - I was collecting comics during the 1970's, when the $1 comics were specials, and they had the Earth-2 comics. I like the rich texture of the DC multiverse, and I'm think it's a good explanation for how the superheroes can be around since the 1930's and not age. In fact, there should be an Earth 0 or Earth 4 to present the superheroes in the 20th century, even as the heroes from Earth 2 and Earth 1 retire.

[Mulett]

I think Crisis on Infinite Earths failed to do what it set out to do, which was to create a single continuity and iron-out all the 'glitches' that have cropped up over the years.

The multiverse was, for me, one of the most interesting things about DC in the 70s and 80s. I only just realised that it was around 1985/86 that I moved over to Marvel Comics and stopped reading DC regularly. I guess post-CoIE DC wasn't as interesting for me.

I've started reading DC again over the past few years but have not really been hooked in by any of the titles. I found it really frustrating that so much failed to make any real sense and, if anything, continuity post-CoIE and post-Zero Hour was actually harder to follow.

I think others here have listed characters who particularly suffered - Power Girl (of course), Hawkman/Hawkwoman, The Legion of Superheroes, Wonder Woman and her related characters (Donna Troy in particular), the WWII heroes (such as All Star Squadron) . . . the list goes on.

I just don't think all the heroes fit together on one earth - I agree with those who have said Captain Marvel simply doesn't belong on the same Earth as Superman etc. The Marvels were a very particularly type of comic book character and don't work in a more gritty environment.

I also found the difference in ages of the heroes interesting too - seeing Earth-1 Wonder Woman visit her older Earth-2 counterpart (who was married to Steve Trevor and with a superpowered daughter) was just great. Seeing the Earth-2 Huntress spend Christmas with her 'Uncle Bruce' on Earth-1 was actually very moving. Seeing Power Girl flirt with the younger Earth-1 Superman during the JLA/JSA team-up was hilarious.

Infinite Crisis has left yet more questions and I'm not sure I'm going to stick around for the answers. I'm not convinced the writers at DC have an agreed 'end point' and are pretty much making it up as they go along. The current situation is incredibly unsatisfactory - all the heroes (and all the other peope on earth too?) now remember the multiverse. All the multiverse people now DID exist - we even saw Earth-2 Batman's ghost recently.

But how can the likes of Superman live his life remembering Earth-1? It just doesn't work.

[Hush Little Batman]

I love the idea of the multiverse as long as crossovers with it are kept to a minimum or not at all. This is one of the primary reasons I love Marvel's Ultimate line so much - because it's truly a separate entity and not an extension of the 616. I don't need to read an obscure issue of USM to be able to follow or understand what's going on in the regular SM titles and vice versa.

When DC brings back the multiverse, my fear is that they'll be massive crossovers to the point where continuity will be so way off (even by comic book standards) that it'll necessitate another "clean-up" crisis event.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

I agree that it's far easier to avoid continuity problems with the multiverse. And, as I said in an earlier thread I started, they will have to provide an infinite crisis every twenty years or so, because Superman will be aging once again. If they don't have that, then they will explain how he can still be around for forty odd years. And I am also not too enthusiastic about the current generation of comics, though maybe that's because I'm middle aged.

In fact, they will soon have problems with the Earth-2 heroes, unless they get some immortality serum or something.

Say, how about a petition to bring back the multiverse? It worked with the GL Corps.

[Babylon23]

I never had any difficulty understanding the DC Multiverse. My first introduction to DC was through the All-Star Squadron, a book that greatly suffered post-Crisis, as did it's offshoot Infinity Inc. It always stated on the first page that the book was set on a parallel Earth, and even as an 8-year-old, I was able to follow the concept. I also loved the multiple Earths crossovers between the JLA/JSA.

Having said that, I wouldn't want to see the pre-Crisis Multiverse return. I think we're too far past that concept now. Even though it's taken 20 years, I think DC has finally sorted out most of the problems caused post CoIE.

However, I would like to see a multiverse return, featuring heroes from different Earths. However, rather than using variants of existing heroes, I'd like to see new heroes populating the different Earths. Really, DC has something like that now, especially with the Wildstorm Universe now having crossed over with regular DCU.

[carabas]

Multiple Universes? Both yes and no, as far as I am concerned.

Alternate dimensions and such, like the one from Morrison's Earth 2 or the infinite paralel worlds from Wildstorm's Bleed, sure. Fine. Essential even to proper cosmic scale superhero storytelling.

A silver age style multiverese witha bunch of alternate worlds, each with their own continuity, and crossovers between them? Are ye mad? Hell no.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

How about two multiverses set in a larger omniverse? One multiverse with cross-overs, and one without. :D

[swinebread]

What we have going now, with one universe, and writers kind of playing with it (Morrison's Earth 2) seems like it could work. Hell, they brough back Krypto.

Yeah I like Earth-3 a lot, but DC kinda' brought it back so it's OK

[Suzanne]

It doesn't matter to me. If bringing it back proves more trouble than it's worth, scrap it. However, if it makes any of the post-COIE confusions more understandable, go for it.

[The Shadow]

In fact, there should be an Earth 0 or Earth 4 to present the superheroes in the 20th century, even as the heroes from Earth 2 and Earth 1 retire.

You don't think that would get confusing and just create more problems??

[Ontir]

I would bring back the multiverse, with a few changes, as follows:

Universe 1: These are all the traditional DC characters, or at least prior to the purchase of the Fawcett library in the early 70's. I'd keep the Blackhawks in this universe.

Universe 2: The negative Earth, home of Ultraman, etc.

Universe 3: The Fawcett characters, connected to their original continuity, and carried forward. This way, Cap and Supes don't run into problems of duplication. I'd also place Plastic Man and the Spirit here. I think they'd be great fits with the Fawcett line.

Universe 4: This is the place from which the New Gods, the Forever People, etc. sprung. The technology of this universe allows them, via Boom Tubes, to easily travel to any and all other universes.

Universe 5: This is the Vertigo universe. In many ways, like the world we know, yet it is the source of magic, and with its special properties, it can, and does, freely interact with all the other universes as needed, apparently of its own accord. I'd put Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters on this Earth.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

I'd add an Earth-S for the Shazam family, and the Earth Prime for our hero-less Earth.

Bottom line, I think DC should hold a referendum and ask the fans - we're the ones supporting them, after all.

[djm72]

I voted yes. I was always a sucker for those old multiverse stories. Also, I think that, in particular, the JSA and the Shazam! characters have always felt out of place on the one Earth. They always come off as after thoughts or they just don't seem to fit in. The Shazam! characters in particular seem like square pegs trying to fit into round holes.

I understand the reservation of many no votes, however. The multiverse concept can be overused at time and it can become downright silly. I think if they bring it back there have to be some restrictions on it. Instead of, say, an infinite number of Earths, perhaps there are five known multiverse, for example. Have Earth-1 with the modern heroes, another for the JSA, one for Shazam and then figure out a couple of more and say that's it. Anyone who submits a story with an Earth outside those five will be shot.

[carabas]

I'd add an Earth-S for the Shazam family, and the Earth Prime for our hero-less Earth.

That would be the Earth 3 he mentioned, Captain Marvel being originally from Fawcett.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

Anyone who submits a story with an Earth outside those five will be shot.

The problem is, even after COIE, there are stories of Earths that are not the main one, so quite a few writers would be facing the firing squad.

Hey, everyone, what do you think of the online referendum idea?

[karasu]

I don't like them, because they seem to be stories about nothing more than the editors, writers and suits having trouble keeping things in line.

[mike626]

I don't think we do,the reason for the demise of the multiverse was because it was hard for new readers to get into the DCU thus we get the orginal crisis which did streamline the universe and then followed by ZH and IC.

[J. Robb]

I like the idea of different books set in their own world. I'd love to see a Power Girl series set in a world where the original, Golden Age Superman is gone (maybe dead) and she's taken over his role. I'm sure everyone has ideas like that they'd like to see.

What we don't need is a self-referencing "multiverse". We don't need (to use my example) Power Girl constantly checking in on the "main" universe. We don't need the heroes of different universes constantly gathering for every threat (or at all, really.) Just let the different worlds be their own world, each as "real" as the other.

[Jack]

I like the idea of different books set in their own world. I'd love to see a Power Girl series set in a world where the original, Golden Age Superman is gone (maybe dead) and she's taken over his role. I'm sure everyone has ideas like that they'd like to see.

What we don't need is a self-referencing "multiverse". We don't need (to use my example) Power Girl constantly checking in on the "main" universe. We don't need the heroes of different universes constantly gathering for every threat (or at all, really.) Just let the different worlds be their own world, each as "real" as the other.
I agree with that. I don't particularly care for the DC multiverse, but at least keep the worlds separate.

[Ontir]

I think seeing a new Earth 2, in which Power Girl and Fury have taken the places of Superman and Wonder Woman, alongside Kendra as the new Hawkgirl, plus the new Mr. Terrific, etc. would be very interesting.

Putting the Fawcett Characters back on their own world, and having lines of books for each world would also be cool.

It actually opens a great deal of possibilities. Whenever a story comes up, that might not be in continuity, it can be one of the infinite Earths. If someone wants to crossover from Earth 1, to whatever other version exists, it's easily done, and doesn't screw up continuity. Clearly labeling by Earth, would also be an aid to readers.

[joint venture]

I don't. I'd like Powergirl and the bunch to stay as they are.

This is a pivotal character to sustain the continuity and events that DC has thrown at us during the past 2 years. It would be like undoing everything for the sake of a series that would last 100 issues or less with GREAT LUCK.

I like the character very much, one of my favorites. And her sense of belonging-not belonging is what feeds her attitude.

Somewhere else she'd be a Superman copycat, like any Post-Crisis Supergirl.

In our continuity she's known for being a hero, for what she can do and for where she's from. Now after IC everyone know or a lot of people know where she comes from, and the character is respected.

Throwing her into her "new" universe would also re-introduce a big huge load of crap too. And she'd had to adapt again to a new environment. It's not happenning.

That image just got a hold of us like DC wanted, that's all.

No Multiverse, thanks.

[Bat-Mite]

I'd like Powergirl and the bunch to stay as they are.

Having a multiverse doesn't mean that Powergirl has to go away.

[Indigo Al]

It's already proven that the one-earth, revamped model simply doesn't stick.

So yeah. We need the multiverse.

[Kid Omega]

I don't think we do,the reason for the demise of the multiverse was because it was hard for new readers to get into the DCU

Was it? Was it really?

thus we get the orginal crisis which did streamline the universe and then followed by ZH and IC.

Hahaha... and those weren't confusing?

To me, having one universe, predicated with twenty-plus years of a multiverse, and three (more?) maxi-series to explain it all is FAR more ludicrous than simply saying "Captain Marvel is on another Earth".

[Tazirai]

I think seeing a new Earth 2, in which Power Girl and Fury have taken the places of Superman and Wonder Woman, alongside Kendra as the new Hawkgirl, plus the new Mr. Terrific, etc. would be very interesting.

Putting the Fawcett Characters back on their own world, and having lines of books for each world would also be cool.

It actually opens a great deal of possibilities. Whenever a story comes up, that might not be in continuity, it can be one of the infinite Earths. If someone wants to crossover from Earth 1, to whatever other version exists, it's easily done, and doesn't screw up continuity. Clearly labeling by Earth, would also be an aid to readers.


I agree with most of that.

[Jack Zodiac]

Putting the Fawcett Characters back on their own world, and having lines of books for each world would also be cool.

If for nothing else, then for this, I welcome the multiverse with open arms. Anything that gives us the hope of seeing a classic Marvel Family book in place of Winick's crapfest is great.

[Joe Acro]

I rather enjoy Trials of Shazam!...

That aside, I think DC does need a multiverse. We don't necessarily need to follow adventures in different realities (although we already do that since Wildstorm, Elseworlds, and the All-Star line fit there), there needs to be some sort of alternate reality system. They can't say there's not a multiverse and then have alternate realities. That makes no sense.

I don't think DC needs to revert to the Pre-Crisis multiverse. I'm fine with the multiverse we have now. I just wish the history of this multiverse were clear.

[MAK15]

the 'multi-verse' idea isnt a bad one, but it seems like every crisis they have seems to revolve around the multi-verse breaking, reformin, breaking, etc.

maybe if they just...I dunno, keep them from destryoin one another, thatd be a nice change of pace...

...but what will the monitors do about it?

[joint venture]

They'll go ballistic. Heheh...

[IamtheRock3]

dont see what it would hurt

[MaxofSteel]

I'm all for the multiverse. Different/alternate worlds are alwaye interesting to me. Especially when Supes is involved.

[The Shadow]

I'm all for the multiverse. Different/alternate worlds are alwaye interesting to me. Especially when Supes is involved.

So why not just have Elseworlds stories?

Why fraction the current DCU to what it was 20 years ago?

[NeonZ]

So why not just have Elseworlds stories?

Why fraction the current DCU to what it was 20 years ago?

The multiverse, at least considering how it's been handled in newer comics, not the old ones, would allow Elseword's stories to be relevant to the DCU.

You seem to be set in a weird mindset that means a new multiverse would mean only the same old Pre-Crisis Earths, but that isn't really true. Almost every depiction of the Multiverse since Infinite Crisis has included elements from elsewords and imaginary stories, something that the original multiverse really failed to explore.

They don't even have to fraction the current Earth- they could name it "Earth-52" or something, and show that Earth-S is still existing with its own classic Captain Marvel and such, without eliminating the current new Marvel.

[Bat-Mite]

So why not just have Elseworlds stories?

Elseworld stories are stories of familiar characters reimagined into unfamiliar settings. I don't think that's what Max is talking about. I think he is talking about the characters, as they are presented now, traveling into other dimensions. That is something the multiverse would allow without hurting anything or anyone. In fact, there have been many stories like that in the recent years... so I really don't see all the hoopla here.

If what you, and others, are afraid of is seeing the JSA being sent to a different universe, then that's not what most of the pro-multiverse people are talking about. I like the JSA right where it is, personally.

[Apathy Boy]

The question is irrelevant, and not just because DC's bringing it back anyway. Fact of the matter is, the multiverse has never really gone away in the DCU.

Just a couple of years after CRISIS, we had Byrne's Superman - the epitome of what post-Crisis DCU was about! - go to that alternate earth where he met SuperprotoplasmGirl and killed the Phantom Zone villains. Oh, but that was a pocket universe, not a parallel universe. Pardon me. (Was that the same pocket universe as the Legion's by the way? Or was it a parallel pocket universe?)

Then there was ZERO HOUR, a mini-series that was supposedly about reinforcing DC's unified universe, even when they were bringing in a bunch of wacky versions of current DCU characters. Oh, but they were from different timelines, not a parallel universe. Pardon me.

Then there was THE KINGDOM, where we discovered that all those Elseworlds we thought we imagined during some kind of schizophrenic breakdown really happened. Oh, but the effects of the Crisis were real, too. Pardon me.

I could go on, but you get the point. For the last 20 years, DC has been trying to have it both ways when it comes to multiple universes. The result was more confusion than what they had to begin with. So maybe it's about time DC came clean with what it is they've been giving us all these years.

[MaxofSteel]

I agree with Bat-Mite and Apathy Boy. The Multiverse has existed in dfferent names/form ever since the CRISIS, so it would make sense to just call it what it is and bring it back IMO.

As long as the writers are careful this time around, I personally don't see any problems coming from this.

[Duy]

I agree with Bat-Mite and Apathy Boy. The Multiverse has existed in dfferent names/form ever since the CRISIS, so it would make sense to just call it what it is and bring it back IMO.

As long as the writers are careful this time around, I personally don't see any problems coming from this.
I'm of two thoughts about the whole thing. On the one hand, I'd love to see multiple earths return. (What the hell was so confusing about it? I read the first Crisis when I was four and I got it.) On ther other hand, I'd hate to see the new history established in the last 24 years (especially in regards to the Flash Family) go.

If they can meet somewhere in the middle, I'd be happy for it. I'd even be really happy if they did a multiverse without Earth-2.

[Taskmaster]

I've never understood how you could be against the multi-verse, if you don't like it just focus on the main DCU, but why would you want to keep fans that do like it from seeing soemthing they enjoy, there is no one forcing you to read about the multi-verse. Just like with the Hal/Kyle arument, i never understood why Kyle fans were so against the return of Hal and the Corps, if they can all exist and everyone can get comics with their favorite characters why try and stop it

[glennsim]

The question is irrelevant, and not just because DC's bringing it back anyway. Fact of the matter is, the multiverse has never really gone away in the DCU.

Just a couple of years after CRISIS, we had Byrne's Superman - the epitome of what post-Crisis DCU was about! - go to that alternate earth where he met SuperprotoplasmGirl and killed the Phantom Zone villains. Oh, but that was a pocket universe, not a parallel universe. Pardon me. (Was that the same pocket universe as the Legion's by the way? Or was it a parallel pocket universe?)

Then there was ZERO HOUR, a mini-series that was supposedly about reinforcing DC's unified universe, even when they were bringing in a bunch of wacky versions of current DCU characters. Oh, but they were from different timelines, not a parallel universe. Pardon me.

Then there was THE KINGDOM, where we discovered that all those Elseworlds we thought we imagined during some kind of schizophrenic breakdown really happened. Oh, but the effects of the Crisis were real, too. Pardon me.

I could go on, but you get the point. For the last 20 years, DC has been trying to have it both ways when it comes to multiple universes. The result was more confusion than what they had to begin with. So maybe it's about time DC came clean with what it is they've been giving us all these years.

What DC got rid of back then (and what I would assume they are bringing back now) is a type of multiverse that allows for reasonably regular, stable interaction between the universes. To use your examples, there's no real way to pin down those alternate timelines if you wanted to revisit them regularly.

That's a difference between this kind of multiverse and just alternate timelines - the chances of hitting that timeline again and again to have any sort of ongoing relationship are nil.

This is also the answer to why Elseworlds are different from a multiverse. Sure, you can have an Elseworlds with Pirate Batman. But with a multiverse, "regular" Batman can go meet Pirate Batman. And then ten issues later he can use the sword he got from Pirate Batman in a fight. Because they are all actually working within the same boundaries.

[drwho]

I dont see what the big deal is about having the multiverse return. To me this is such a snore of a plot. This topic in my opinion isn't worth all the excitement people are having over it. I dont know why this is such a big thing for dc. Dc's multiverse returning is as exciting as hypertime existing. :rolleyes: Do we really need to see Batman team up with a pirate Batman? I dont think so.

[Flash230]

Why not just limit the interaction with the rest of the DCU? Billy can still work at a radio station etc.

True, but, let's say that DC wants to go with the "Batman is an urban legend" angle. How...in a shared universe...can one writer create stories using a very public Batman in the JLA without resorting to world-wide mindwhipes?

Even if Batman was NEVER seen publicly in a shared universe and EVERYONE in the DCU...other than it's heroes and villains...believed that Batman was an urban legend...how can the "average Joe" be thinking "Nah. I don't believe in no such guy in a Bat suite running around with no high-tech weapons and crap. But, hey, did you see that Superman fella flying around up in the sky and blasting crap with his laser eyes the other day?"

Multiverse?

Public Batman on Earth 1.

Urban legend Batman on Earth 2.

Besides, I want some REAL change in my comics. Let them age!

[The Shadow]

They don't even have to fraction the current Earth- they could name it "Earth-52" or something, and show that Earth-S is still existing with its own classic Captain Marvel and such, without eliminating the current new Marvel.

So... what would be the point?

[The Shadow]

If what you, and others, are afraid of is seeing the JSA being sent to a different universe, then that's not what most of the pro-multiverse people are talking about. I like the JSA right where it is, personally.

That's exactly what I want them to avoid and I like the JSA right where they are too.

I always hated the lame crossover stories.

[Dreadstar]

So... what would be the point?

Interaction, which was supposedly taboo after CoIE.

Remove Marvel from Superman's milieu ENTIRELY, yet don't prevent the two from the occasional interaction.

I loved the old multiverse, and I looked forward to the JLA crossovers more than anything except LSH in the 60s. CoIE was a major fuck-up in my opinion.

[The Shadow]

Multiverse?

Public Batman on Earth 1.

Urban legend Batman on Earth 2.

Then you have new readers coming in (theoretically anyway) that have to try and make out which Batman is appearing... why they are crossing over (and you KNOW it would happen) and so on.

Regarding your JLA Batman and urban legend Batman... there's some acceptable suspension of disbelief that has to occur.

[drwho]

Dc will probably do over kill by doing these type of stories and chase all the fans away. They can call the event Crisis of Multiple Multiverse Team Ups. I think it makes more sense to keep the universes apart and maybe once every 5 yrs crossover. Or start a new line of books based on some of the different universes.

[Flash230]

Earth-1 was Earth-Maintain the Sacred Status Quo.
Earth-2 was Earth-Our Heroes are Getting Older and Raising Families!

THAT would be the best way to introduce an "Ultimate" line to the DCU.

Everything we recognize now as "DCU Proper" remains BUT...unlike Marvel's 616/"Main" universe...the heroes & villains actually age, get married, have children, etc...

In a NEW universe...you introduce well thought-out "Ultimate" versions of Superman (once again making him THE FIRST), Batman, Wonder Woman, etc... and in this universe, you can start fresh and then keep THAT status quo.

[Dreadstar]

Or start a new line of books based on some of the different universes.

Oddly enough, that was *my* idea of what they should have done as the wrap-up for CoIE. Relegate the Silver Age stuff to a alternate Earth like they did the Golden Age. Start from scratch. Maybe keep running Detective and Adventure with the Silver Age storylines. (imagine the KNIGHTFALL storyline happening to an aging Bruce Wayne, with the paralysis permanent and Dick taking over as the Batman. Like that) Let the Gold and Silver Earths AGE and move forward.

So much possibility.

[drwho]

I was thinking just start doing a monthly elseworlds series for popular characters like batman, superman, and Flash. Each month have an alternate version of the original and if one happens to get more popular than the others put out a mini and then possibly an ongoing. I just have no desire to see characters like batmite running around the real dc universe.

[Dreadstar]

I was thinking just start doing a monthly elseworlds series for popular characters like batman, superman, and Flash. Each month have an alternate version of the original and if one happens to get more popular than the others put out a mini and then possibly an ongoing.

All of which could have been done in 1984 if it hadn't been for the announcement from on high that CoIE put paid to the multiverse. You're not disagreeing with me here. The Batmite hyperbole aside, nothing important that has happened in the past 20 years of a supposedly single universe would have been impossible had the multiverse remained intact. With the exception of Zero Hour, because they needed Zero Hour to fix what they fucked up after CoIE.

[eggie]

I voted no because I like having all the heroes on the same Earth as opposed to many different ones...the multiverse was confusing and I thought DC tried cleaning that up with COIE so to bring it back now would make things even more confusing. Before IC I had a pretty good handle on all the characters histories, but now I have no idea what is and isn't in continuity at this point. I love DC but IC left me very, very confused.

The Multiverse can make for some pretty interesting stories though...we can have Barry Allen still alive on a different Earth (this would be a good thing)...I don't know, now I can see pros and cons to having or not having a multiverse.

[Flash230]

Then you have new readers coming in (theoretically anyway) that have to try and make out which Batman is appearing... why they are crossing over (and you KNOW it would happen) and so on.

Regarding your JLA Batman and urban legend Batman... there's some acceptable suspension of disbelief that has to occur.

Regarding your first point...

Simply include a "recap page" at the start of each comic.

"Previously: Earth-1 Batman...a hero known throughout the world as The Greatest Detective" etc... or "Believed to be an urban legend, The Dark Knight known as The Batman from Earth-2" etc...

Any reader who goes "What the heck is Earth-1?" and doesn't bother to find-out, wasn't all that interested.

Regarding your second point...

sure, we have to suspend our disbelief to accept that Superman can put on a pair of glasses and no one knows that he's Clark Kent because...there is... in comic book terms...a "rational" way of doing so; He contorts his "Super face muscles", "he steadily vibrates so no one gets a good look at him" "Most people look at his crotch" etc...

With "I don't believe in Batman but I do believe in Superman"...what's the rational? An alien who flies, has heat vision, ice breath, etc... is believable but a guy in a suit with gadgets isn't? Sure...I can suspend disbelief for that but...I have to assume...without SOME explanation involving "comic book science" (face muscles, vibrating, etc..) that the average "Joe DCU" is an idiot at worse/narrow-minded at best.

[Dreadstar]

To me, the whole idea that Clark's "glasses" secret identity has to be explained misses the simple point. In my opinion, it's always been part and parcel of the whole Superman suspension of disbelief package.

[Joe Rice]

In the right hands, I'd love to see the multiverse back.

[Citizen V]

That`s right,if the Multiverse could be written and handled properly there is no problem with having it.But keep in mind if writers clog issues up,or make ends that can possibly interfear with each other.Errors can happen,but if the writers stay in contact with each other there wont be any confusion.At least..that`s what i think...

[Lorendiac]

To me, the whole idea that Clark's "glasses" secret identity has to be explained misses the simple point. In my opinion, it's always been part and parcel of the whole Superman suspension of disbelief package.

I've said much the same thing before. At this point, it's become a Sacred Tradition that his glasses and other superficial changes (combing his hair differently, changing his voice a bit, etc.) are enough to fool the vast majority of the human race. We wouldn't want to overturn a Sacred Tradition at this late date, would we? :)

[joint venture]

In the right hands, I'd love to see the multiverse back.

Yeah: Jared Diamond, Robert Henlein, Oscar Wilde, William Gibson and Mark Waid as a consultant for his knowledge of the DCU exclusively.

Whoever has a name writing comics allready isn't good enough for a multiverse. Any perception they already have of the industry, their work or someone else's would devolve and tear it apart in a short period of time.

Or until us, our sons and daughters and even our grandchildren make enough pressure on DC to go back to one universe.

[stealthwise]

Can we have a New Frontier-verse/DCAU/Dini-verse?

CAN WE?

[joint venture]

Can we have a New Frontier-verse/DCAU/Dini-verse?

CAN WE?

THAT I'D GO FOR. Just read Absolute New Frontier these days. Can't say no to that.

[stealthwise]

THAT I'D GO FOR. Just read Absolute New Frontier these days. Can't say no to that.

They could spin off a few minis or ongoings out of that. I'd personally like to see a New Frontier regular book that just focuses on different characters and scenarios in an all-ages friendly format, from Cooke himself.

Other things that would fit well:

- Shazam (like Smith's upcoming), although perhaps that should be in its own Earth-S context
- JLU
- Teen Titans
- Aquaman
- Superboy

[jaguarshark]

I'd like to see an Elseworlds Multiverse, where Batman is going about his business and suddenly, hey, there's a rip in time or something and there's Victorian-era Batman, or Red Robin. Alternate reality stories are cool, IMO.

Having said that, though, there's no way that I'd want the multiverse being something that gets referenced every issue, getting in the way of straight-ahead superhero stories. Just the occasional glimpse would be fun.

[Super Buddies Forever]

The thing is, I don't understand all this hooplah about whether the Multiverse will return or not. It never left! Before Didio took control, we had Hypertime. The concept of Hypertime was that even though the alternate realities of the Pre-Crisis DCU were destroyed, there was an even larger tapestry out there where the echos of those worlds still carried on. So, yes, there was still an Earth-Two, Earth-S, a Pre-Crisis Earth-One, and so forth out there. Maybe they weren't the exact same locales, but they more or less identical copies.

Of course, this was all swept away and neatly forgotten about. If all the speculation and clues are true, then it seems like we're now retconning the return of the Multiverse nearly a decade ago simply so the current crop of creators can get credit for bringing back the Multiverse. Yeesh.

[Flycatcher]

I have to go nay. I really like the idea of one interconnected DCU and was happy to see that DC had apparently chosen to give us one earth instead of a multiverse ate the end of IC. That said, DC has been doing a great job recently and I trust that whatever they put out will be of the utmost quality. So while I'm not a huge multiverse fan I trust DC to make it work.

[joint venture]

I just said that a "New Frontiers Multiverse", along with what some of you guys have suggested might work as place for happy sequential art, perhaps something more hopefull and encouraging, funny too.

There are people, individuals or readers that want to take some of their free time and invest it in a fun read. While some of us like Civil War and IC, there's a share asking for "something else".

Marvel has tried with manga, kid heroes like the Runaways and the Ultimate line. DC COMICS has tried with stuff like CMX and the Johnny DC "categories". They have to sell well or they would't be there.

So while I might hesitate at the idea of bringing back the multiverse, it is the constant reminding: the words "multiverse", "earth-1", "earth-prime" that make me uncomfortable, like i have to constantly check where I am standing JUST to do something I like, read a comic book.

Good branding, better marketing estrategies and perhaps new guys (writers or artists) might make this work. Though I'm still a little dubious.

[Tony Bang]

Can we have a New Frontier-verse/DCAU/Dini-verse?

CAN WE?

Well there is the JLU book, which is really good.

But I digress, yes I'm quite pleased the multiverse is returning.

[Chris Lang]

It's already proven that the one-earth, revamped model simply doesn't stick.

So yeah. We need the multiverse.

I posted my list of possible new 'DC Earths' a year or so ago, and I stand by what I said in it. Having four, five, or six Earths would probably be better -- certainly as far as characters like Captain Marvel and the Marvel Family are concerned. In a world with Superman in it, Captain Marvel isn't really anyone special. But in a world which doesn't have a Superman, he can be its equivalent.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

I don't know if this should be merged with the poll on the multiverse, but I want a referendum on a referendum.

There have been very diverse opinions, so I'm wondering, if there was a world-wide referendum, would you accept the final verdict, with no change, and would DC accept that verdict? For example, if the fans voted to bring the old multiverse back, would the opposing side and DC accept it? That's my position, by the way. Or, if the fans voted against any version of any multiverse, would the others and DC accept it? I'm totally against it, but I'll go with the free market. Last, but certainly not least, if the fans voted for some version, like Elseworld and ONLY one universe, I could live with that, grudgingly. But would DC?

Give me your thoughts. I'm asking this because, in my professional organization, there was a referendum a few years back on a very emotional issue, that had lasted for years if not decades, and, after the vote was counted, the losing side accepted the loss gracefully. I was on the winning side, :) and I accepted my win gracefully too. :D

[joint venture]

I posted my list of possible new 'DC Earths' a year or so ago, and I stand by what I said in it. Having four, five, or six Earths would probably be better -- certainly as far as characters like Captain Marvel and the Marvel Family are concerned. In a world with Superman in it, Captain Marvel isn't really anyone special. But in a world which doesn't have a Superman, he can be its equivalent.

The problem lies that in your mind you're already looking for an alternate earth with what would be the EQUIVALENT or alternate version of Superman. In the back of your head, it can be called Super Marvel, Marvel Man or Captain Super. Truth is Superman is already too well positioned as a brand and a new earth with Captain Marvel in it would be another Superman title for you.

We already have too many Superman titles, I dislike him a lot, which is a personal right I have. And as a consumer I'd rather have one SM title less and a new Captain Marvel series than a new multiverse with surely 4 or more Captain Marvel Titles (including mine-series and specials about them) and one more earth to keep tracks on.

[joint venture]

Like the "Death of Robin" only this time including the whole world and thru the 'net? HELL YEAH.

I want to know what people think. Problem is that all the people on the web do not read comics, but the multiverse theory is enough to throw back those who just want to click for fun. Gotta know what yer talking about.

[DonC]

DC would never accept this. It looks to me like the multiverse is something the creators want and the fans don't. Best way to vote on something like this is with your money. Tell Dan DiDio exactly why you aren't buying certain comics, whether it's just for a month, or a permanent change.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

Of course it's about money. But DC would listen to what the fans want, because DC wants their money, hence the usefulness of a referendum.

[DonC]

I voted no. I like the linear storytelling of Jay Garrick followed by Barry Allen followed by Wally West. None of this Barry read comics about Jay who was actually in a parallel universe that the writers of the Flash comics were subconsciously tapping in to.

[DonC]

What I was saying was a worldwide referendum probably wouldn't work. The people who lost can just stop buying stuff. Having a refernedum at work is different. People can't quit their jobs and find new ones as easily as they can drop a comic and start reading a different one. So the best way to tell DC what ideas you don't like are to not buy them. Not to say, for example, "I don't like what you're doing with Detective Comics but I'll keep reading it anyway."

[joint venture]

DC would never accept this. It looks to me like the multiverse is something the creators want and the fans don't. Best way to vote on something like this is with your money. Tell Dan DiDio exactly why you aren't buying certain comics, whether it's just for a month, or a permanent change.

While my HELL YEAH sounds enthusiast enough to be positive about a referendum; Don C is right about how things work in the medium. So let's face it, just buy what we like, encourage good gork and dump the bad.

I ain't buying new multiverse comics. I ain't worrying about different earths, timelines and possibilities. Got enough with the current continuity, and happy with it. :)

[Ontir]

DC doesn't care what anyone wants, unless it looks like the sales have hit the skids, and even then, I think it was mainly because the creatives wanted to be free to use any character, that they did Crisis in the first place.

[Joe Rice]

I voted no. I like the linear storytelling of Jay Garrick followed by Barry Allen followed by Wally West. None of this Barry read comics about Jay who was actually in a parallel universe that the writers of the Flash comics were subconsciously tapping in to.

Which, of course, isn't necessarily what a new multiverse would be like.

A new multiverse could be utilized by writers that want to use it and ignored by others. Why anyone would want fewer options for storytelling is beyond me.

[Kara Zor El]

I think it should be left to the writers and editors. Let them do what they want. That's how art works and if you don't like what the artist produces then don't give it any of your time or money.
But it's like saying the fans should decide what tempo's the song's on a new Rolling Stones Album should be or something.

[Apathy Boy]

Well there is the JLU book, which is really good.

But I digress, yes I'm quite pleased the multiverse is returning.Yeah, and before the JLU book, there have been the various BATMAN ADVENTURES books, SUPERMAN ADVENTURES and ADVENTURES IN THE DCU. The animated DCU has existed in comic form for the last 15 years. But maybe folks don't think that "counts" unless it's part of actual DCU continuity.

Me? I'm in favour of the multiverse, but I don't see the benefit of seeing the animated universe integrated into it. I would be really depressed to see the animated DCU involved in MELLON COLLIE AND THE INFINITE SADNESS or whatever the hell the next crossover is going to be called.

[Tony Starkz]

it's crap like the multiverse that scares people away from DC

[Ontir]

You mean like Marvel, with their prime universe, the Ultimate Universe, then of course, there's the Gray Beast, who's from an alternate timeline, not to mention Cable and Bishop, who are from competing futures, both of which are different than the future from which Rachel Summers originates.

Clearly far too much for poor little fanboys to countenance!

[DonC]

A new multiverse could be utilized by writers that want to use it and ignored by others. Why anyone would want fewer options for storytelling is beyond me.


Personal choice. It's interesting because I don't want stories to be slaves to continunity. I don't mind Hawkman being the same dude in JSA and Hawkworld, I just don't like the idea that it's just a guy from a different universe. It's like the episode of The Simpsons with Lucy Lawless where they said any continunity mistakes in Xena were just the work of a wizard. It's a cop out.

[Joe Rice]

Personal choice. It's interesting because I don't want stories to be slaves to continunity. I don't mind Hawkman being the same dude in JSA and Hawkworld, I just don't like the idea that it's just a guy from a different universe. It's like the episode of The Simpsons with Lucy Lawless where they said any continunity mistakes in Xena were just the work of a wizard. It's a cop out.

It seems more like you're being restrained by continuity. The writers that don't want to use it could ignore it. But why tell a writer that would like to tell a parallel earth story "No, that's not possible"?

[joint venture]

It seems more like you're being restrained by continuity. The writers that don't want to use it could ignore it. But why tell a writer that would like to tell a parallel earth story "No, that's not possible"?

More like we want to hire you, we will take your pitch or we want you to write about this?

We can't decide for the executives nor the creative teams, we just buy them.

Wait. We just buy them? We're feeding this guys! Of course we should be heard and taken into account when it comes to decissions like this.

[DonC]

It seems more like you're being restrained by continuity. The writers that don't want to use it could ignore it. But why tell a writer that would like to tell a parallel earth story "No, that's not possible"?


Honestly, I say use the same Earth. Like I said, I don't care if the Hawkman from one comic differs from the one in another. Or if Batman is the boogey man in Gotham City, but also a public figure in the Justice League.

And if they want to do a really funky story, like having an all-ape version of the DCU then make it an Elseworlds.

[RichStanz]

I really don't care anymore. Unfortunately as time has gone on, I find myself only interested in the Bat-books and Vertigo/Wildstorm stuff.

Too much of the multi-verse drama and the crisises don't feel story-driven. Every new multi-verse problem just seems to be written to fix a previous problem with the multi-verse. As a reader, it always comes off like DC is more concerned about the status of what the multi-verse is, and not really concerned with what type of characters inhabit those worlds.

I think its kind of dumb that the character on the cover is Action Comics #1 is now dead. It just seems like DC has no grasp of their real legacy and significance.

I don't mind Elseworlds or Bizarro or things of that nature. I even like the Crime Syndicate universe because its story-driven.

If DC did a multi-verse, I wouldn't mind to see it based around each publishing line - a DC universe, a Wildstorm universe, a Fawcett Shazam universe, the Charlton Comics Universe, the Quality comics universe. But I'm not interested in 3 marginally different Supermen, when one is enough.

[J. Robb]

If DC did a multi-verse, I wouldn't mind to see it based around each publishing line - a DC universe, a Wildstorm universe, a Fawcett Shazam universe, the Charlton Comics Universe, the Quality comics universe. But I'm not interested in 3 marginally different Supermen, when one is enough.
I think combining the Fawcett, Charlton and Quality characters into their own shared world would be cool. I can see Plastic Man working much better alongside Captain Marvel and Blue Beetle than with Superman and Batman. And definitely keep such a universe "all-ages", no grisly violence and rape.

[Duy]

I firmly believe Captain Marvel cannot achieve his full potential as long as he lives in the same universe as Superman. He should be on a separate earth. I'll be happy if he is.

[Zero Hunter]

I like the current merged Earth to be the Prime Earth. Leave it just as it is but also have a multiverse made up of new realitys not the old ones. That is what I want to see.

[UniqueFrequency]

i voted no only because i started reading comics after the original Crisis and i think it's been working fine, with no need to get the multiverse back and still have great stories! everyone interacting on the same earth is great, keep it that way!

[dancj]

What the hell was so confusing about it? I read the first Crisis when I was four and I got it.

Four? Crisis on Infinite Earths? Be honest now

[Duy]

Four? Crisis on Infinite Earths? Be honest now
Yes. No exaggeration. I was four. My brother was reading it, and I just needed him to explain the words to me.

Seriously, parallel earths... not that hard. At all. Time travel, maybe, parallel earths... not.

[Joe Rice]

My second-graders last year totally understood parallel earths. It's kind of a staple in all pop culture now. DC acting like it's this huge confusing thing says more about the people in charge than the world at large.

[4thHorseman]

No. I'm sick of all these crisis's involving a multiverse. Just leave it as one universe, but feel free to use Hypertime. Everyone complains about bringing back something that was supposed to have been long gone, but if they are brought back takes out the significance of the original event.

I bet a lot of the people who want the multiverse to return, thought that Jason Todd should have stayed dead.

[Duy]

No. I'm sick of all these crisis's involving a multiverse. Just leave it as one universe, but feel free to use Hypertime.


It's...fundamentally... the same... thing.

The only thing - the ONLY thing - that might be confusing about the multiverse was the Black Canary situation. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of the multiverse, and absolutely nothing wrong with parallel dimensions. To think so linearly just limits storytelling options, like Joe keeps saying, as well as limits young readers' ability to grasp abstract ideas.

Seriously, and I don't mean to brag.... parallel earths... not that hard. Hell, even time travel's not that hard once you accept the fact that it'll make your head hurt.

[Dreadstar]

Seriously, and I don't mean to brag.... parallel earths... not that hard. Hell, even time travel's not that hard once you accept the fact that it'll make your head hurt.

AND! It has the built in caveat to the writer: "You know, you don't have to use it if you don't want to."

[MythicBrawn]

I have no problem with the multiverse. If anything it would help fix DC's continuity problems. They don't have to do stories on each universe. Just know that they are there.

[4thHorseman]

It's...fundamentally... the same... thing.

The only thing - the ONLY thing - that might be confusing about the multiverse was the Black Canary situation. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of the multiverse, and absolutely nothing wrong with parallel dimensions. To think so linearly just limits storytelling options, like Joe keeps saying, as well as limits young readers' ability to grasp abstract ideas.

Seriously, and I don't mean to brag.... parallel earths... not that hard. Hell, even time travel's not that hard once you accept the fact that it'll make your head hurt.

I know its basically the same thing, but I'm tired of everyone complaining about the multiverse when there's already other options out there for storys of the same effect. Let the multiverse be done and over with, it had it's hayday, but move on so we don't always get stuck in the rut of the exact same stories over and over again. Move on with the next great idea.

[thetube]

Why can't it be one universe with generations of heroes? For that reason, I voted NO...

[Duy]

I know its basically the same thing, but I'm tired of everyone complaining about the multiverse when there's already other options out there for storys of the same effect. Let the multiverse be done and over with, it had it's hayday, but move on so we don't always get stuck in the rut of the exact same stories over and over again. Move on with the next great idea.

But that's the thing - the multiverse doesn't affect the writer if the writer doesn't want to be affected by it. All it really does is let the writers who want to use it use it.

Why can't it be one universe with generations of heroes? For that reason, I voted NO...

It can be. And while that is happening, there can also be parallel earths. The two ideas aren't mutually exclusive at all.

[Shellhead]

Four? Crisis on Infinite Earths? Be honest now

It's not that difficult a concept. I was about 6 years old when I read JLA #100, which happened to feature a team-up between the JLA and the JSA. Early on, the characters discussed travelling to Earth-2, and then talked about how these were different versions of the usual DC characters, because it was a different reality. And I immediately understood it. It threw me slightly that there weren't different versions of all the characters, just some of them, but I caught on and kept going. I've been a JSA fan ever since.

[Sandy Hausler]

While I never bought the idea that the multiverse was too complicated for readers (especially, new readers) to understand. And I always liked the DC Universe stories generally being Earth 1 with an occasional Earth 2 thrown in for variety. But I see little chance of DC reviving the multiverse, at least not in the way I know it. If they were going to do that, they would have done it during the Crisis. And they didn't.

Sandy Hausler

[Wayne]

No. It's enough one Universe. No they all will be -somehow- continuity.
Why not continue doing eleseworlds,?! and only that.

[Shellhead]

While I never bought the idea that the multiverse was too complicated for readers (especially, new readers) to understand. And I always liked the DC Universe stories generally being Earth 1 with an occasional Earth 2 thrown in for variety. But I see little chance of DC reviving the multiverse, at least not in the way I know it. If they were going to do that, they would have done it during the Crisis. And they didn't.

Sandy Hausler

I suspect that DC already *did* bring back the multiverse during Infinite Crisis, but we are only now finding out about it. Apparently recent issues of The Flash have been dealing with the multiverse, and Justice Society is definitely getting into some multiverse stuff, with the recent appearance of a character who was retconned out of existence during the first Crisis. And it's been suggested that the Jason Todd running around these days is from an alternate Earth.

[guyjo]

I say thee YAY to the multiverse.
And I agree, it would seem that the multiverse has already returned and we are on the cusp of it's revelation to the readership.
I am all for this. I think DC greatly underestimated our intelligence when they got rid of it so as not to confuse our simple little minds...:p

[dancj]

Yes. No exaggeration. I was four. My brother was reading it, and I just needed him to explain the words to me.

Seriously, parallel earths... not that hard. At all. Time travel, maybe, parallel earths... not.
I'm impressed. Not with the alternate realities concept - That's not too hard, but CoIE is a dense read. My son is five and a good reader, but even he hasn't started on comics yet.

[Kara Zor El]

I'm impressed. Not with the alternate realities concept - That's not too hard, but CoIE is a dense read. My son is five and a good reader, but even he hasn't started on comics yet.

Mozart wrote Twinkle Twinkle Little Star when he was four.;)

[Flash230]

Move on with the next great idea.

The thing with a multiverse is that you can not only "move on with the next great idea" but...since you don't have to maintain (as one poster called it) "The Great Status Quo", you can make that great idea PERMANENT.

Using Marvel as an example....

Spidey's secret identity is known to the world at large.

How long do you think that THAT'S gonna last?

Well, on "Earth-M" ( maybe a "What-if" world) that situation can remain permanent, allowing for many "great ideas" that spring from that development that a shared universe...where "The Sacred Status Quo" must be maintained, wouldn't allow for.

Thing is (and, again, using Marvel as an example) the What-if series doesn't involve ongoing stories that you can read about every month. A multiverse would allow for that.

Basically...for me, it's;

Multiverse = Character evolution.
Universe = Status quo.

[Duy]

The thing with a multiverse is that you can not only "move on with the next great idea" but...since you don't have to maintain (as one poster called it) "The Great Status Quo", you can make that great idea PERMANENT.

Using Marvel as an example....

Spidey's secret identity is known to the world at large.

How long do you think that THAT'S gonna last?

Well, on "Earth-M" ( maybe a "What-if" world) that situation can remain permanent, allowing for many "great ideas" that spring from that development that a shared universe...where "The Sacred Status Quo" must be maintained, wouldn't allow for.

Thing is (and, again, using Marvel as an example) the What-if series doesn't involve ongoing stories that you can read about every month. A multiverse would allow for that.

Basically...for me, it's;

Multiverse = Character evolution.
Universe = Status quo.
It's true. They did a Superman wedding and a death of Batman on Earth-2 and made it permanent way way before they even considered doing that to the earth-1 characters.

[Dreadstar]

It's true. They did a Superman wedding and a death of Batman on Earth-2 and made it permanent way way before they even considered doing that to the earth-1 characters.

Exactly what I was saying earlier about the squandered oportunity of CoIE. Batman gets the Knightfall paralysis permanently, using the Silver Age guy.

The present guy? Clipping right along, thank you.

[Arrjay]

I think that if people want to smoke they should be allowed to smoke but not around other people who are eating food and not indoors in a public place.

Also, I heart multiverses.

[Shellhead]

Exactly what I was saying earlier about the squandered oportunity of CoIE. Batman gets the Knightfall paralysis permanently, using the Silver Age guy.

The present guy? Clipping right along, thank you.

So true. That way, DC and Marvel can have it both ways... shocking changes in the old world and maintain the status quo in the new world. Better yet, they can have heroes from both worlds meet up from time to time, just for fun.

And it looks like Dreadstar has a stalker from the smoking thread.

[Sijo]

I voted yes. The concept of a multiverse is simply too good to be ignored; look at how Marvel has used it successfully, especially in series like What If and Exiles. DC is limiting itself too much without it. Besides, how many alternate world stories have we seen since the first Crisis in DC anyway? The Kingdom and Earth-2 (the Evil one) come to mind. I don't care if they call in Hypertime or whatever, it's already back, they just need to admit it.

[3D Master]

I voted yes. The concept of a multiverse is simply too good to be ignored; look at how Marvel has used it successfully, especially in series like What If and Exiles. DC is limiting itself too much without it. Besides, how many alternate world stories have we seen since the first Crisis in DC anyway? The Kingdom and Earth-2 (the Evil one) come to mind. I don't care if they call in Hypertime or whatever, it's already back, they just need to admit it.

DC can still do all that, without bringing the multiverse back. The whole point of the DC multiverse, was that (with the exception of Earth-2) some of these universe had their own line-up of monthly comic books. Which means this wasn't the occasional dip/elseworlds/what if/crossing dimensions stories, but they were running entire universe continuously next to each other.

That should stay away.

But there's no reason they can't simply have alternate dimensions/universes, hell we've been seeing them off an on since COIE. The dimension with the genders reversed comes to mind, the different dimensions that superboy in one story line kept being whisked off to, etc. etc. And this does not require the resurrection of the pre-Crisis multiverse.

[Duy]

DC can still do all that, without bringing the multiverse back. The whole point of the DC multiverse, was that (with the exception of Earth-2) some of these universe had their own line-up of monthly comic books. Which means this wasn't the occasional dip/elseworlds/what if/crossing dimensions stories, but they were running entire universe continuously next to each other.

That should stay away.

But there's no reason they can't simply have alternate dimensions/universes, hell we've been seeing them off an on since COIE. The dimension with the genders reversed comes to mind, the different dimensions that superboy in one story line kept being whisked off to, etc. etc. And this does not require the resurrection of the pre-Crisis multiverse.
I for the record never said I wanted the resurrection of the pre-Crisis multiverse. I want the acknowledgement of the return of A multiverse so that more multiverse stories are possible.

That, and I want Earth-S in its own space.

[Dreadstar]

But there's no reason they can't simply have alternate dimensions/universes, hell we've been seeing them off an on since COIE. The dimension with the genders reversed comes to mind, the different dimensions that superboy in one story line kept being whisked off to, etc. etc. And this does not require the resurrection of the pre-Crisis multiverse.

Basically, there's no difference. What the idea "bringing back the multiverse" is REALLY saying is that all those Elseworlds and Exiles and Kingdom are now ACCESSIBLE to the writers. Here's the kicker:

What that accessibility will mean will depend on the writer. Some guys will screw it, but good. Doesn't surprise me, hacks abound. Some folks will write beautiful storylines.

In fact, I can't wait for the first Superman Adventures universe crossover. Seriously.

The writers don't really frighten me as much as the editors. The editors can say the word "NO." They should do this FAR more often.

What I fear is them saying the word "YES" far too often.

[Duy]

Basically, there's no difference. What the idea "bringing back the multiverse" is REALLY saying is that all those Elseworlds and Exiles and Kingdom are now ACCESSIBLE to the writers. Here's the kicker:

What that accessibility will mean will depend on the writer. Some guys will screw it, but good. Doesn't surprise me, hacks abound. Some folks will write beautiful storylines.

In fact, I can't wait for the first Superman Adventures universe crossover. Seriously.

The writers don't really frighten me as much as the editors. The editors can so the word "NO." They should do this FAR more often.

What I fear is them saying the word "YES" far too often.
Go ahead.

No one remembers the bad storylines as having really counted anyway. The Kingdom was atrociously done, especially with the standard you give to Mark Waid, and they did a couple of stories out of Hypertime, but no one really remembers them these days or really counts them when theyr'e recounted. No one counts Genesis as having happened - somehow, the Atom just turned into a teenager.

That's the thing with continuity, as far as I'm concerned. You don't have to take in everything that's given to you. The individual stories should still stand alone regardless of what's happened before.

Oh, Norman Osborn never had sex with Gwen Stacy too, as far as I'm concerned. I can still read Spider-Man Blue and enjoy it.

[Scott Taylor]

I vote yes on the concept, if only for the reason that DC has never had much of a chance to consciously create a multiverse from the ground up. Prior to CoIE, they were stuck with what they had in their history and just used the notion of a multiverse to explain all the discrepencies.

I'm excited to see what will happen when they have a clean slate to work from this time. There is no reason at all for them to need to stick with yesterday's continuity anymore, when they could just create a new one.

And, hey, if it doesn't work out there is always Superboy to fix it again.

[Mulett]

It will be very interesting to see how the multiverse is to be re-introduced. Will it be the same multiverse as pre-1985 Crisis, or will it bring about a totally new line-up of parallel worlds?

For instance, is Earth-2 going to re-appear? And if so, what does this mean for the Earth-2 heroes living on the current 'New Earth' whose histories and lives are now entwined with the 'New Earth' continuity?

Power Girl, I assume, could return home with little problem as she has never been properly intergrated into post-1985 continuity. But what about the likes of the Earth-2 Hawkman, Green Lantern and Flash who are very much a part of the history of the 'current' Earth?

And what of the people of Earth-2 (who were noticeably 'missing' from Earth-2 when it re-appeared in Infinite Crisis)? Are they actually still living on Earth-2 and, if so, where do they think their heroes have gone?

Bringing back the multiverse is one thing - actually working out the practical issues that comes with it will be something entirely different.

[jam]

I grew up with the Multiverse. I was reading comics when we found out about the Flash of two worlds.

I'd never heard of the Golden Age DC heroes. It was like discovering a whole new universe with a whole new bunch of super heroes (admittedly, some were variations on ones we know already, some even *were* the ones we already knew). Doctor Fate, the Spectre, Hourman, Mr. Terrific, Starman ...

No, it wasn't "like discovering"; it *was* discovering.

I never ever felt confused about the Multiverse concept. I loved it whenever DC introduced yet another Earth, filled with heroes I never knew existed. It was even better when people started writing new stories and new heroes in those worlds; the Huntress and Power Girl were, for a while at least, more interesting characters than their Earth-One counterparts.

I'm a sucker for parallel world stories, especially those where we see an alternate (usually twisted!) reality, in any SF mileau.

I would love for DC to bring back the Multiverse concept. I'm not sure how they could wind the clock back to pre-Crisis, as earlier posters have said, it would be tricky. I'm not even sure they need to bring back pre-Crisis. Just have alternative universes ...

[Shellhead]

DC does seem to be in the process of revealing that there is a multiverse again. I would be delighted if they revealed that "New Earth", the current setting of the DC product line, is not the new Earth-1, but that there are separate universes that are identical to the pre-Crisis Earth-1 and Earth-2. They could even have a post-COIE/pre-IC Earth-something. That would allow DC to focus on the current product line, but still tell the occasional story with the old characters. I want it both ways... I want my heroes to be young and adventurous forever, and I also want them to grow up along side me, experiencing the kind of life-changing events (marriage, kids, getting old) that are awkward for ongoing monthly comics.