Millligan/Allred on X-Force/X-Statix

[agrich]

I went back through six pages of this site without finding any threads about this old series. I bought it when it first started, quit toward the end of the X-Force run, and have recently been buying all the X-Statix issues (the series was cancelled with #26).

I'm just wondering if anyone else really enjoyed it. Not enough to keep it from getting cancelled, obviously, but I'm just wondering if there were any other fans out there....

[Beast]

It wasn't really cancelled due to low sales, though that was part of it. Milligan was just done telling what he wanted to tell. Mostly because of Editorial interference during the run of the book. And search is your friend, there is a lot of X-Force/X-Statix threads. :)

[venuscameback]

I went back through six pages of this site without finding any threads about this old series. I bought it when it first started, quit toward the end of the X-Force run, and have recently been buying all the X-Statix issues (the series was cancelled with #26).

I'm just wondering if anyone else really enjoyed it. Not enough to keep it from getting cancelled, obviously, but I'm just wondering if there were any other fans out there....

I for one loved it!

the Hawkeye vs Vivisector issue was particularly good, I could so see how it worked out like that for Myles, and Hawkeye. My heart was brekaing for Myles at the end though!

I know the Princess Di arc was awfully controversial but I loved it nonetheless and because we all knew it was meant to be about Diana I didn't think changing the character's name meant the story lost anything.

From start to beginning, X-statix was consistently excellent and frequently brilliant


venus

[Tobias March]

I loved X-Force/X-Statix ....if only for the great letters pages at the beginning filled with complaints :D Also it finally convinced me to track down back issues of Shade and Madman, so there's that too. These mutant celebrities were the perfect antitote to the 90's mutant misery that had stretched before!

[Sheldon]

I'm still missing Edie. Great series.......some of the most heated discussions on this board concerned their run. Its too bad the board crash wiped them out.

[Sid]

I thought it was merely ok.

I don't understand all the hype about Mike Allred's art (yes, there used to be a lot of hooplah about X-Statix). His simplistic style looks more fit for drawing coloring books than comic books. I'm not much of an artist myself, but I think I could draw most of what Allred draws. And if I can do it - it aint art.

[agrich]

I can see why some didn't like Allred's style, but I think there's a certain beauty in his simple lines and cartoony approach. Also in the fact that the chararcters look like fairly realistic men and women in costumes, rather than muscle-bound or overly curvaceous heroes/heroines. It's a little jarring/atypical, but that's not necessarily a bad thing; different can be good.

Glad to see some others enjoyed the series. Maybe Milligan was done telling the stories he wanted to tell, but I think if it had sold well Marvel would have kept it going regardless.

[nubly]

It wasn't really cancelled due to low sales, though that was part of it. Milligan was just done telling what he wanted to tell. Mostly because of Editorial interference during the run of the book. And search is your friend, there is a lot of X-Force/X-Statix threads. :)

i didnt know that. but if it was doing well, sales wise, why would marvel not keep it running with a new creative team? anyone know how muc money x-statrix was brining in for marvel?

i liked the series. when it came out, i briefly stopped buying comics. when i found out that the x-force team was replaced with this new team, i was disappointed and didnt bother buying it. but since there was such a hype over it, i went back and bought it. really enjoyed it.

the art was a disappointment though. liefeld does a better job :)

[Tommy]

The art was perfect. It was classic comic art like the first batch of Claremont stories. Which made the fact that these were anything but the old-school heros more funny.

[nubly]

The art was perfect. It was classic comic art like the first batch of Claremont stories. Which made the fact that these were anything but the old-school heros more funny.

i think i misunderstand what youre saying. youre comparing allred to cockrum and byrne? :eek:

[Tommy]

i think i misunderstand what youre saying. youre comparing allred to cockrum and byrne? :eek:
What I am saying is that if you open up the Dark Pheonix saga or classic FF and then look at X-Force they are very simmilar. Allred was modeling his stuff after the classic look of comic books back then they used four color. Which made the book since the chars were nothing like the classic heros.

[Archyduke]

I loved it; even the fill-in artists were terrific. Granted, I'm the only person I personally know in real life who doesn't despise the entire series, but I thought that Milligan and Allred's styles worked perfectly together.

[Tobias March]

Just on the point of whether the series should have gone one, I'm happy that when Milligan ducked out he took the characters with him, Butch Cassidy and Sundance style :)

[Sid]

What I am saying is that if you open up the Dark Pheonix saga or classic FF and then look at X-Force they are very simmilar. Allred was modeling his stuff after the classic look of comic books back then they used four color. Which made the book since the chars were nothing like the classic heros.


Yeah, I'm really not seeing that.

[agrich]

Personally I don't see lumping Cockrum and Byrne together as though their styles are remotely similar. I can see an Allred-Cockrum comparison, but Byrne's style is nothing like either one.

Regardless, I think he's talking more about the overall look of the book - cartoony, old-school - than of the work of a specific artist.

[nubly]

Yeah, I'm really not seeing that.

me either. allred's art is better on companies like disney where they have cartoon books.

[Tommy]

What the X-men look like today:
http://www.spidermedia.ru/docs/review/marvel/xtreme/pics/x-treme_001.jpg

Classic look of the Fantastic Four:
http://g.courtial.free.fr/Fantastic_Four_Kirby_wallpaper_fond_d_ecran.jpg

X-Statix:
http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/X-STATIX21_cov.jpg

They are clearly an homage to how Superheros used to look.

[Sid]

Hmm, I guess I can kinda see where you are coming from. Kinda.

However, each pic you posted shows different characters so it's hard to compare.

My main thought in looking at those pics is that X-Statix is about to catch a beatdown. Seriously.

[Tommy]

However, each pic you posted shows different characters so it's hard to compare.
Google makes it rather hard to come up with exactly what I wanted. But the style of X-Statix is sparse and cartoony simmilar to the style of the early comics since they had limited printing capeabilities.

As far as the beatdown they each fought one on one and the fights (Except Dead Girl vs. Scarlet Witch which where they fought was heavily favoring Dead Girl) were all surprisingly close.

[venuscameback]

Google makes it rather hard to come up with exactly what I wanted. But the style of X-Statix is sparse and cartoony simmilar to the style of the early comics since they had limited printing capeabilities

the comparison with Allred is better for the likes of Jack Kirby and 60s comics art.

I was also reminded of the pop art of Lcihtenstein and Andy Warhol - whose "15 minutes of fame" quote neatly dovetails with the protagonist's reasons for being on the team.

I can't say I generally adore Allred's work - although his Golden Plates has a few cracking splash pages - but I think he was the perfect artistic choice for a book about superficial celebrity heroes, about style over substance, about looking great even after throwing down with hawkeye.


venus

[Sid]

I am willing to concede that Allred's art may be an homage to the old stuff. However, there are differences. While he may draw a lot of inspiration from the old school I feel he definately also adds his own style to it - and the result is unique. I didn't notice the retro element before - now I do. But I still think, when taken as a whole, it has more of a pop-art feel than a retro feel.

I personally do not care for it - even though I like old school.

Maybe it's partly the colors. X-Statix tends to have bright, vivid, loud colors. Same with Allred's work on Ultimate Marvel Team-Up.

[nubly]

okiseethecomparisongyouretalkingabout. allred'sandladron's retro look just doesnt work for me. i'veread masterworks of FF and avegners andthe old reprints of amazing spider-man andx-men butthey allbored me. i just dont see why thistype ofwritingand art is still liked. granted, theose creators established the look and personaof todays most popular characters but other creators have changed the feel of it. i will read books from the 80s to current, some 70s but most, if not all, 60s books just arent enjoyable to me

[agrich]

Good comparisons to use would be the covers of X-Statix #1 vs. Giant-Size X-men #1, and that above cover vs. X-men 100.

http://i11.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/de/11/31_12_sb.JPG

http://i4.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/c4/46/ed_1_b.JPG

http://i1.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/de/30/b5_12_sb.JPG

[hbkabdul]

I personally loved the series and hated to see it go. Too many favorite issues to name just a few though. One particular moment i did enjoy was the fight between Guy and Iron Man where Guy gave Iron Man the piece of Doops brain when he decided he was different person than Cable. Nice touch on his character. One thing i didnt like though was that characters would die as soon as you started to like them. Edie, Spike (the black and white one), and El Gaupo, his friggin mutant power was a skateboard that beat him up for cheatin on his ex. Too bad they all died i would have loved to seen them pop up in Uncanny

[Huzzah!]

(bare in mind i read only the first and last arc of x-statix and all of x-force)



i dont want to say i hated it.

I dont want to say it was crap.

People clearly loved it.

it just wasnt for me. The characters seemed to talk past each other. I think it tried to hit too many notes at once, and with the lighter style of this work in terms of length it didnt work. The celebrity factor wasnt really ringing to true and i doubt any of these people would come off as anything but clowns and fools to a general public. It was more reality series.

It seemed milligan rolled to much with his own ideas and didnt seem to have any direction with the characters. That is to say when one character called Tike a oreo he, as it turned out, became one. Or when one character decided to act gay for more screen time, he became gay. this frantic approach of almost throwing things against the wall didnt work for me. The characters were all stereotypical, even though that might have been the idea (as reality shows are cast the same way). However it didnt really seem to parody the idea or make fun of the format and instead embraced it and lifted it up.

Trying to make heroes out of guys who eat insects for 50k. Just doesnt work.

The art didnt work for the book either. I felt it should have been over the top, rather than the more old school as it was presented. This book should be about excess and glamour and wonky characters and violence and media, and the art didnt reflect that. It was somewhat flat. The violence didnt actually compel you in any way. It was cartoony. But when the story is written in a somewhat cartoony manner and the art is cartoony then the story becomes a cartoon and there is no real emotional attachement.

Of course i didnt like how it did mutants either

[Sheldon]

I loved how allred drew real clothing that people would actually wear on the characters in their off time.

[hbkabdul]

(bare in mind i read only the first and last arc of x-statix and all of x-force)



i dont want to say i hated it.

I dont want to say it was crap.

People clearly loved it.

it just wasnt for me. The characters seemed to talk past each other. I think it tried to hit too many notes at once, and with the lighter style of this work in terms of length it didnt work. The celebrity factor wasnt really ringing to true and i doubt any of these people would come off as anything but clowns and fools to a general public. It was more reality series.

It seemed milligan rolled to much with his own ideas and didnt seem to have any direction with the characters. That is to say when one character called Tike a oreo he, as it turned out, became one. Or when one character decided to act gay for more screen time, he became gay. this frantic approach of almost throwing things against the wall didnt work for me. The characters were all stereotypical, even though that might have been the idea (as reality shows are cast the same way). However it didnt really seem to parody the idea or make fun of the format and instead embraced it and lifted it up.

Trying to make heroes out of guys who eat insects for 50k. Just doesnt work.

The art didnt work for the book either. I felt it should have been over the top, rather than the more old school as it was presented. This book should be about excess and glamour and wonky characters and violence and media, and the art didnt reflect that. It was somewhat flat. The violence didnt actually compel you in any way. It was cartoony. But when the story is written in a somewhat cartoony manner and the art is cartoony then the story becomes a cartoon and there is no real emotional attachement.

Of course i didnt like how it did mutants either


yea you raise a lot of valid points but at the same time i think a lot of people loved it for a lot of the reasons you disliked it. it wasnt perfect far from it and i didnt like a lot of the mutant issues either but at the same time it just felt right. it was new as well instead of the tired old cliche of protecting a world that hates and fears them these guys had it easy and acted like a bunch of primadonnas. the art i felt was perfectly suited for the book because the book was a few inches to the left of quirky and the art seemed suited for it too. Milligan through out tons of ideas left and right and your right some things felt brought up out the blue yet you i think a lot of us accepted it because it read more like an indy comic and i always treated the book with a tongue in check approach while reading it.

[Ryan K]

I loved every second of it.

Except for maybe the Faux-Princess Diana arc (which I'll credit my dislike of it to editorial interference) and the Wolverine-Doop mini.

Other than that I'd consider it the best un-X-men, x-related stuff put out since early Generation X 10 years ago.

[SlightlyMad]

I'm still missing Edie. Great series.......

Amen to that. Check the sig.

I loved X-Force (the only X-Force that ever mattered IMO), but, even though Venus was a likeable character, I thought the series never quite recover from the loss of U-Go Girl when it became X-Statix. Also, the alterations/compromises that were forced on the "Back From the Dead" (or "Di Another Day" as it was originally titled, come on Marvel, release the unedited version, I dare you) storyline made things proved to be the beginning of the end. Thankfully the series redeemed itself with the Avengers story (Guy Smith vs Tony Stark is one of the best comic-book fights ever!).

I collected the series when it came out, then bought the hardback edition & sold my original comics, so someone else could enjoy them. If Marvel release a hardback of X-Statix, I may do the same with them.

Overall, I would say this is one of the best things Marvel has come out with over the last 20 years. I loved the writing, the artwork & the characters. Much missed, but better dead, than jumping the shark!