The London Hellfire Club

[The Sword Is Drawn]

The London offices of the Hellfire Club were featured during later issues of Excalibur's run during the whole Black Air storyline. Brian Braddock (Capt Britain) took his father's former seat on the inner circle in order to infiltrate the Club, at the request of Shinobi Shaw (Of all people) who had been unable to ascertain what was going on with the London Branch. As it turned out Bishop's former Nemesis Mountjoy had seized a position of power, and Black Air and the Hellfire Club turned out to effectively be one and the same as they tried to free a demon from its bonds deep below London.

However, my major memory of the London Branch was that whilst there were two sides to the inner circle Black and Red (they changed from white to distance themselves from there American branch) none of the inner circle members ever refered to each other by anything other than their Hellfire Club title of King, Queen, Bishop etc...

So who the hell were they?

I remember the Black Queen was a psychic who introduced herself to Brian as Ms Peel, and was seen conversing with Onslaught in one panel. I remember the Red Queen to have been Margali Svarsos (Spelling?) Nightcrawler's adoptive mother, and the Red King some distantly voodoo looking black mage, but I'm damned if I can remember if he was ever properly introduced.

So...

What was the London Hellfire Club's roster back then, and providing they are still active, do they have a current roster?

Any ideas?

[Beast]

IIRC, they don't use white over in the UK for Chess, it's red. That's why they had the Black/Red motiff instead of the Black/White one. As for the group, here's what info is known about them. :)

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/pov/showquestion.asp?faq=5&fldAuto=42

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Speaking as a Brit, I have never seen a Red Chess piece in my life, and the game's been played over here for a fair few hundreds of years... :D

Hmmm...

I was always surpised the London Hellfire Club hasn't cropped up again in the X-Books, but I guess until a regular British based title re-emerges, that's unlikely...

[Dizzy D]

So who the hell were they?

I remember the Black Queen was a psychic who introduced herself to Brian as Ms Peel, and was seen conversing with Onslaught in one panel. I remember the Red Queen to have been Margali Svarsos (Spelling?) Nightcrawler's adoptive mother, and the Red King some distantly voodoo looking black mage, but I'm damned if I can remember if he was ever properly introduced.

So...

What was the London Hellfire Club's roster back then, and providing they are still active, do they have a current roster?

Any ideas?

The Black Queen was named Ms Steed actually, not Ms Peel (but I can see the confusion. I used to watch Avengers as well). She was the same character as Damask in X-Calibre (the Age of Apocalypse title). She also was a minion of Onslaught.

The Red Queen was indeed Margali Szardos, seen again a couple of times since then.

The Red King wasn't named and was a swordfighter without any apparent supernatural powers.

The Black King wasn't named, but had a gun with the special bullets mentioned earlier in Excalibur (plastic bullets made from a mutant's skin that could eat their way inside the victim. They were able to slowly penetrate Brian Braddock's shield)

Brian was a member as well, having easily disposed of the earlier Bishop in combat.

Scribe turned out to be Mountjoy, who was loyal to Ms. Steed.

Excalibur revealed their actions to the press, so the London Hellfire Club probably all got arrested. With Claremont now focusing on a more world-wide Hellfire Club, probably the different branches united under one group of Lord Cardinals.

[The Fury]

On the subject of Red/White/Black colouring things. Maybe this was a cross of Chess and Cards. Where the Black was in both and therefore the higher of all.




Also, as the Hellfire Club was founded in Britain it shouldn't be called 'The London Hellfire Club', just 'The Hellfire Club'. ;)

Every other should have the City prefix on it. :)

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Excalibur revealed their actions to the press, so the London Hellfire Club probably all got arrested. With Claremont now focusing on a more world-wide Hellfire Club, probably the different branches united under one group of Lord Cardinals.

Has the Hellfire Club gone through some kind of bizarre transformation in recent times then? Sorry been away for a while.

[venuscameback]

Speaking as a Brit, I have never seen a Red Chess piece in my life, and the game's been played over here for a fair few hundreds of years... :D



I'm a big chess player, but not a chess expert. The only time I've seen red pieces is as an alternative to black, not white, as aesthetic preference.

My suspicion is that by changing one of the colours it would reinforce in reader's' minds that this Hellfire Club was independent of the American branch we are used to seeing.

venus

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'm a big chess player, but not a chess expert. The only time I've seen red pieces is as an alternative to black, not white, as aesthetic preference.

My suspicion is that by changing one of the colours it would reinforce in reader's' minds that this Hellfire Club was independent of the American branch we are used to seeing.

venus

I'm pretty sure that's how it was actually explained...

[Dizzy D]

Has the Hellfire Club gone through some kind of bizarre transformation in recent times then? Sorry been away for a while.

Claremont has played around a bit with the Hellfire Club, introducing a Lord Imperial who has authority over the individual branches of the Hellfire Club and later a new group of Lords Cardinal including Sunspot, Viper, Courtney Ross/Sat-Yr-9 and with Sage back as advisor.

I searched around a bit on the net and apparently Scribe/Mountjoy did appear again as Hellfire Club member in the pages of X-man where Sebastian Shaw was rebuilding his powerbase.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Claremont has played around a bit with the Hellfire Club, introducing a Lord Imperial who has authority over the individual branches of the Hellfire Club and later a new group of Lords Cardinal including Sunspot, Viper, Courtney Ross/Sat-Yr-9 and with Sage back as advisor.

I searched around a bit on the net and apparently Scribe/Mountjoy did appear again as Hellfire Club member in the pages of X-man where Sebastian Shaw was rebuilding his powerbase.

Hmmm, bizarre. Of course, as was pointed out above, the London Branch was the original Hellfire Club...

[traxler]

On the subject of Red/White/Black colouring things. Maybe this was a cross of Chess and Cards. Where the Black was in both and therefore the higher of all.
I've seen red used in an Indian chess set;
the game comes from that part of the world, I believe....
It was stained ivory, and the queen was called the minister.

[venuscameback]

I've seen red used in an Indian chess set;
the game comes from that part of the world, I believe....
It was stained ivory, and the queen was called the minister.

but you don't say whether the red pieces were used in place of white or black on that set

and thinking, there are chess sets of all colours imaginable; but these are usually novelty sets and so I don't count them, I was thinking of the colours of sets that are most widely used.

the queen originally had different moves too and was sometimes also known as the Vizier

this was apparently because at certain times it was deemed inappropriate for there to be a female figure on the chess board & also for a female figure to be the most powerful/aggressive piece on the board. I heard this on BBC Radio 4, so it must be true :D

actually the history and evolution of chess is fascinating


venus

[traxler]

but you don't say whether the red pieces were used in place of white or black on that set

the queen originally had different moves too and was sometimes also known as the Vizier

Oops!
The set was red and black.
And indeed, visier means minister (or more accurately, Lord Chamberlain).

[venuscameback]

Oops!
The set was red and black.
And indeed, visier means minister (or more accurately, Lord Chamberlain).

A Vizier is the highest administrative official is some Muslim countries; the title has also been occasionally used for the Prime Minister of commander of the army is Muslim states, notably Turkey.

The entymology is wazir, meaning porter, so "to carry a heavy burden".

Whichever way you look at it, the Vizier is the most important colleague/closest advisor to the King/ruler, hence their position and power on the chess board.


venus

[fishtaco]

There are red pieces in Checkers. :)

Scribe was not Mountjoy. Mountjoy was riding Scribe, but thats it. Me, I want Mountjoy back NOW!!!! and Scribe! and the whole London Branch. Mountjoy rocked. I want Scirbe (Red Rook) to turn out like Sage did. Sage, Scribe. Names are similar in a particular way.

I LOVED Damask in X-Calibre. X-Calibre was my favorite AOA book partly because of her. Cool power, cool look, cool personality, a villain with a conscience, she had it all.

[DDM]

The London offices of the Hellfire Club were featured during later issues of Excalibur's run during the whole Black Air storyline...

The London Hellfire Club first appeared way back in Alan Moore & Alan Davis The Mighty World Of Marvel. James Jaspers was a member of the club. Sebastian Shaw, then Black King, visited the LOndon branch to speak to the Lord Imperial. The London Hellfire Club made another appearance in Excalibur #9 when "Courtney Ross" (Sat-Yr-9), apparrently a full fledged member, beat Nigel Frobisher in a game of cards. Frobisher unwittingly became Ross' slave due to the large debt he owed her since he had no money. The London Inner Circle did not appear until late in the book though...

[The Sword Is Drawn]

The London Hellfire Club first appeared way back in Alan Moore & Alan Davis The Mighty World Of Marvel. James Jaspers was a member of the club. Sebastian Shaw, then Black King, visited the LOndon branch to speak to the Lord Imperial. The London Hellfire Club made another appearance in Excalibur #9 when "Courtney Ross" (Sat-Yr-9), apparrently a full fledged member, beat Nigel Frobisher in a game of cards. Frobisher unwittingly became Ross' slave due to the large debt he owed her since he had no money. The London Inner Circle did not appear until late in the book though...

Oh God yes, I had forgotten about that...

[venuscameback]

hmm they be some mighty hairy nipples, DDM ... and you know what ensued last time ...

heh, keep it up!


venus

[protege]

hmm they be some mighty hairy nipples, DDM ... and you know what ensued last time ...

heh, keep it up!


venus
yeah, I've always wondered where he gets his icons fom...

[venuscameback]

yeah, I've always wondered where he gets his icons fom...

i'm told they're all gay porn stars


not that i'd know that myself ;)


venus

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Back on topic, who is the Lord Imperial?

[Dizzy D]

Back on topic, who is the Lord Imperial?

Currently? Sunspot.
Before that Sebastian Shaw (but just relatively recently: during Dream's End, the Brotherhood killed the then-Lord Imperial (I don't think he showed up before that. Or had anything of importance to do)

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Currently? Sunspot.
Before that Sebastian Shaw (but just relatively recently: during Dream's End, the Brotherhood killed the then-Lord Imperial (I don't think he showed up before that. Or had anything of importance to do)

I'm assuming that Lord Imperial was a title going back to the very beginnings of the Hellfire Club? What actual right does Sunspot have to that post?

I also find the term 'Lord Imperial' a bit confusing. In the Hellfire Club limited series that Ben Raab did the final issues shows Shaw seizing power from the previous White King, with his new 'inner circle'. It stated "On that day the lords imperial assumed absolute control of the Hellfire Club". Lords plural. Where has the singular concept come from?

[DDM]

I'm assuming that Lord Imperial was a title going back to the very beginnings of the Hellfire Club? What actual right does Sunspot have to that post?

I also find the term 'Lord Imperial' a bit confusing. In the Hellfire Club limited series that Ben Raab did the final issues shows Shaw seizing power from the previous White King, with his new 'inner circle'. It stated "On that day the lords imperial assumed absolute control of the Hellfire Club". Lords plural. Where has the singular concept come from?

The Lord Imperial controls all of the various Hellfire Clubs around the world; however, each of the leaders--the Lords Cardinal--are under the Lord Imperial. A Black King, Black Queen, White Queen, & White King is subordinate to the Lord Imperial.

[DDM]

Back on topic, who is the Lord Imperial?

Elias Bogan, although defeated, is not completely out of the picture. However, Sunspot is the Lord Imperial, but Sage seems to be pulling the strings as his advisor.

[Mr. Jip]

The Lord Imperial controls all of the various Hellfire Clubs around the world; however, each of the leaders--the Lords Cardinal--are under the Lord Imperial. A Black King, Black Queen, White Queen, & White King is subordinate to the Lord Imperial.



So who the hell was the Lord Imperial when Shaw was Black King..?!?!..
:confused:


Ms. Steed needs to come back.
Her psychic shredding hooks were cool.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Ms. Steed needs to come back.
Her psychic shredding hooks were cool.

Agreed. I think if Excalibur had ever continued then we would have seen a fleshed out London Hellfire Club sooner or later. Sadly not to be... :(

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I was prompted to bring this thread back from the dead by the recent Mike Carey interview for UXM.net wherein he said he might be interested in using Sunspot again.

Now, much as though in recent times both Sage and Courtney Ross have been appearing in New Excalibur, seperate to the Hellfire Club it's been made pretty clear that the original intention was for Chris Claremont to bring his Chasing Hellfire club back as villains for that book. It was vetoed at the time, due to Whedon's Astonishing HFC, but could now be brought back at a future date.

My question to you guys is, should that occur, would you be happy/want to see that previous Hellfire setup returning, with Sunspot as Lord Imperial and the likes of Elias Bogan on board, back in the setting of the very first Hellfire Club? Is that a story people are still interested in reading about?

[The M.E.]

My question to you guys is, should that occur, would you be happy/want to see that previous Hellfire setup returning, with Sunspot as Lord Imperial and the likes of Elias Bogan on board, back in the setting of the very first Hellfire Club? Is that a story people are still interested in reading about?

Personally, I'd rather they just bring him back in a new capacity, perhaps with a mystery around what happened to the hellfire club, to be explored in the future maybe. But i like my sunspot as an x-man :)

[Beast]

Personally, I'd rather they just bring him back in a new capacity, perhaps with a mystery around what happened to the hellfire club, to be explored in the future maybe. But i like my sunspot as an x-man :)
Only problem with that. Is when you bring something in as a mystery to be explored in the future, people complain from the start that there's no explaination given. I'm starting to think that everyone who reads comics have come down with A.D.D., and can't follow stories if they last beyond an issue anymore.

[The M.E.]

Only problem with that. Is when you bring something in as a mystery to be explored in the future, people complain from the start that there's no explaination given. I'm starting to think that everyone who reads comics have come down with A.D.D., and can't follow stories if they last beyond an issue anymore.

I see your point Beasty-beast (can i call ya that :) ), but i think it's the best approach for both fans. Fans familiar with the story can have hope that its being recognized and will be addressed, but fans who didn't follow that story (like myself) don't need to go back and re-read it to know what's going on. I can if I want, but I can also just let the mystery play out. But that's just me' opinion :)

[DDM]

So who the hell was the Lord Imperial when Shaw was Black King..?!?!..
:confused:




Sir Gordon Phillips

He was killed by Sabretooth in Uncanny X-Men #387.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Personally, I'd rather they just bring him back in a new capacity, perhaps with a mystery around what happened to the hellfire club, to be explored in the future maybe. But i like my sunspot as an x-man :)

I really hate it when they do that, though. The retcon which eventually gets put back in by a different writer is usually terrible. You can't just sweep a story as large as one which the Hellfire Club commands under the carpet. It would be beyond clumsy.


Only problem with that. Is when you bring something in as a mystery to be explored in the future, people complain from the start that there's no explaination given. I'm starting to think that everyone who reads comics have come down with A.D.D., and can't follow stories if they last beyond an issue anymore.

I am totally with you there. Certainly feels like that a lot these days. Am I just getting old, or does nobody give a crap about continuity anymore? :D

I want to see a Hellfire Club story. And soon. Things need to be addressed.

[Kaos]

IIRC, they don't use white over in the UK for Chess, it's red. That's why they had the Black/Red motiff instead of the Black/White one. As for the group, here's what info is known about them. :)

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/pov/showquestion.asp?faq=5&fldAuto=42

Never seen a red chess piece in my life, bruv.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Never seen a red chess piece in my life, bruv.

There are Chess Sets out there with Red pieces instead of White, just as there are Red instead of White Draughts or Checkers sets. It's not a British thing. It's more based as a cost thing. Real White Chess pieces were made from Ivory - not a cheap commodity. So often, in the distant past wood was sometimes dyed red.

In thecase of the London HFC it was merely to distance themselves from their American namesakes. They were the original HFC after all, and I think it was more of a personal pride thing.

[Faded]

I dunno. I understand Beast's point that you probably should follow up with what's done in the past, but its just not a plot I'm into at all. Maybe a quickie expalnation that will release him from this plot? After all, Sage is in NEX without the explanation, I don't think its really a plot that needs to be fully addressed anymore.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I dunno. I understand Beast's point that you probably should follow up with what's done in the past, but its just not a plot I'm into at all. Maybe a quickie expalnation that will release him from this plot? After all, Sage is in NEX without the explanation, I don't think its really a plot that needs to be fully addressed anymore.

And Courtney Ross, as well. But this was largely because the HFC were supposed to be the villains of the piece.

[Babylon23]

Personally, I'd love to see the HFC story finally played out, including Sunspot, Sage and Courtney/Sat-Yr-9. I hate it when plots are just dropped with no explanation, and I liked where this one was heading.


I'd also like to see the return of the forgotten London HFC members. I thought there was a lot of potential in this group.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Personally, I'd love to see the HFC story finally played out, including Sunspot, Sage and Courtney/Sat-Yr-9. I hate it when plots are just dropped with no explanation, and I liked where this one was heading.


I'd also like to see the return of the forgotten London HFC members. I thought there was a lot of potential in this group.

You're not wrong there. Several of them weren't ever even named, which I felt was a shame. Mrs Steed the Psi and Mountjoy and his host were both very intriguing.

You could even bring Margali back into things if you wanted.