Zeb Wells New Warriors Interview*SPOILERS*

[Ant-Man]

www.newsarama.com


http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/NewWarriors/NWnewsLineup.jpg

[Ant-Man]

http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/NewWarriors/NWnews0203.jpg

[BlackKnight]

I read the Newarama articale and looked and the art and all I can say is in what world does marvel think this is going to sell. The art is horrible, the concept has been used over and over and over, sorry no more reality tv type comics thanks. I love the New Warriors but this idea is bad at all levels.

[Ant-Man]

I think the art looks great, it looks like animation cells. And I will be buying it for sure.

[The Fury]

OK, I'm confused.

Why is Namorita blue and has white hair?

[Ant-Man]

OK, I'm confused.

Why is Namorita blue and has white hair?

Because Wells and Young thought she looked cool like this, and so do I :) . Also, will you be buying this book? or does the animation cell art turn you off?

[nubly]

i like the warriors too so i'll be giving this book a try. theres have been some books hat the art was not that great but the story was excellent (x-statix to name one). hopefully it wont be a dissappointment. and namorita is blue because....i guess they are returning her to her old kymaera status. though i cant remember the reason why she turned blue in the first place

[The Fury]

Because Wells and Young thought she looked cool like this, and so do I :) . Also, will you be buying this book? or does the animation cell art turn you off?
Yes, but why is she blue? I guess it might be explained.


But I am unsure on it, the art is fine, although i don't really like that Reality TV idea. But unsure, none the less.

I might pick up issue 1 to see what it's like.

[Convoy]

Looks like something that would run in Cartoon Network.

[Vegetarian Goat]

For those of you who watch the new TMNT cartoon, doesn't Namorita look EXACTLY like one of the Atlanteans in the Underground?

I think it's cool. :D

[Ivan Isaacs]

I said it on NR, I'll say it here: That pic with the NW standing on that refrigerator is just bad@$$!
So looking forward to this now. :)

[Convoy]

Maybe it should be a show instead.

[The Shadow]

If it were a cartoon I would say it looks great... but the art does nothing for me on a omic page. The concept sounds HORRIBLE... this is one of those RARE times BlackKnight and I agree!

[CoreyB]

Namorita originally turned blue because... uh, well it's kind of complicated. See, Namorita is a clone of her mother, Namora. But the exiled Atlantean that did the cloning had to add in the DNA of some ancient Atlanteans for some reason (something to do with the complexities of Namora being a human/Atlantean hybrid and a mutant, I think). So, it worked. But, just like how it was revealed in Namor's 90s series by John Byrne, Namorita also has a bit of a chemical unbalance. But instead of it just resulting itself in fits of rage and mood swings like with Namor, it effects her physical appearance and genetic structure. If she's under too much stress and/or spends too much time out of the water or in the water (like for months), then she can apparently go wonky in appearance.

She first turned blue, got webbed hands (three fingers and a thumb), fish-like black eyes, and a weird voice. After Namor was thought dead after Onslaught, Namorita (now called Kymaera) ran Atlantis in his absense. All the months under water and the stress of running Atlantis (especially if they found out she was a clone, since clones were exiled from Atlantis years ago) caused her to eventually turn back. Her hands returned to normal, as did her voice and eyes. Her blue skin finally flaked off by the time she had returned to the surface, so she was back to being pink-skinned. Although, she wasn't exactly back to normal. She had somehow gained new powers (camouflage/invisibility, acid touch, etc.). She then spent most of her time running around with the New Warriors on the surface, since Namor had returned to rule Atlantis again. Later, she's seen blue-skinned again in Human Torch's solo series. She was helping some Atlanteans perfect a dimensional teleportation technology. I don't know why she thought she would make a good guinea pig, since she's such a genetic anomoly, but she did. It caused her to turn blue. She claimed it was temporary and didn't seem all that concerned about it. Apparently she was right because the next time we see her in a quick She-Hulk appearance, she is pink-skinned again. How she turned back to blue yet again, plus gained the white hair and tattoos... hopefully we'll find out at some point.

I'll pick up the series and I want to like it, but I'm having reservations.

[DDM]

Bad concept: A comic book with a reality show spin. Worse, the art looks like animation cells rather than real comic book art. Earth to Marvel, Earth to Marvel can you hear me? I didn't think so. Is New Warriors a cartoon in a comic book before it's a cartoon? This is what happens when Avi Arad thinks he has a creative bone in his body. You get crap in a bottle.

[hbkabdul]

Ill pick up the first issue and give it a try but i really have low expectations. Wells isnt that great a writer and has yet to impress me with anything and to be honest i think he misses the point of the new warriors by reading his interview. Young on the other hand his art looks cartoony as ever which i do not like one bit. The whole reality tv crossover into comics thing is played out as ever.

[thik_3rd]

not feelin it. didnt put it on my pull list.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Not feeling It eithor. We already have this with Alpha Flight , Great Lakes Avengers and Cable/Deadpool. And all 3 did this better than what I've read and heard.

Art looks ok . But I guess that Marvel's too scared to try an " adult " New Warriors comic.

[cowboyfunk]

"Bad concept: A comic book with a reality show spin. Worse, the art looks like animation cells rather than real comic book art. Earth to Marvel, Earth to Marvel can you hear me? I didn't think so. Is New Warriors a cartoon in a comic book before it's a cartoon? This is what happens when Avi Arad thinks he has a creative bone in his body. You get crap in a bottle."

Bud...do yourself a favor and don't post if this is the best you can bring to the table. I'm sick and tired of wack job purists complaining about how comic book art must be portrayed as it has always been.

Way to keep an open mind. Way to challenge what the medium can do.

[Convoy]

Not feeling It eithor. We already have this with Alpha Flight , Great Lakes Avengers and Cable/Deadpool. And all 3 did this better than what I've read and heard.

Art looks ok . But I guess that Marvel's too scared to try an " adult " New Warriors comic.

Didn't the last NW last more than 50 issues?

[Sir Tim Drake]

To clear up a couple misconceptions:

The original New Warriors series lasted more than 50 issues. The most recent New Warriors series did not. I believe there have been only two.

And X-Statix had fantastic artwork.

[Sir Tim Drake]

Also, this looks pretty bad. I am certainly not getting it.

Consider this. The Nicieza/Bagley/Robertson New Warriors, even at its best, was rarely more than a very good imitation of the Wolfman/Perez New Teen Titans. So any atttempt to revive the New Warriors will just be an imitation of an imitation. Also, every revival of the Wolfman/Perez Titans has been a miserable failure, more or less, so any New Warriors revival will probably be an even worse failure.

[LoneWolf21]

Bad concept: A comic book with a reality show spin.

Hey, it's working for Todd Nauck and Wildguard.

Still, I'm on the fence about this. The art is different, but appealing to me, and Zeb and Scottie seem to have a lot of enthusiasm. I may check out the first issue. I thought this was a mini-series though? Oh Well.

[Will.S]

Nova would look much much better if where his arms are exposed they were yellow so that he'll at least look more like the classic version.

[Captain Blitz]

Well...I really hate Young´s art. :( He was such a bad choice when he did Venom (like every other artist, except maybe Paco Medina), I wasn´t even funny.

But I think he really evolved, great cartoony looks and it seems to fit the story.

It´s just a shame that after the debacle called Alpha Flight, Marvel doesn´t seem to learn and destroys another good property by flushing it down the comedy toilet. :mad:

On top of that it rips off Todd Nauck´s work!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Also, this looks pretty bad. I am certainly not getting it.

Consider this. The Nicieza/Bagley/Robertson New Warriors, even at its best, was rarely more than a very good imitation of the Wolfman/Perez New Teen Titans. So any atttempt to revive the New Warriors will just be an imitation of an imitation. Also, every revival of the Wolfman/Perez Titans has been a miserable failure, more or less, so any New Warriors revival will probably be an even worse failure.



Well unless your Geoff Johns and you revive a doormat franchise like Teen Titans. He's done It at DC. I wonder If he'd do It at Marvel with New Warriors.

[marshal99]

I think we can take odds now on how long the book will last ..


I say it will be less than 20 issues , they will run the series to the ground by issue 10 but Joe Q will still put it out until it lasted one year and then end it.

[Sharcque]

I think we can take odds now on how long the book will last ..


I say it will be less than 20 issues , they will run the series to the ground by issue 10 but Joe Q will still put it out until it lasted one year and then end it.
It's a 6-issue mini-series, that's it.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Worse, the art looks like animation cells rather than real comic book art.
There's no such thing as "real comic book art".

[Doom Hammer]

I think I'm already getting a much better fix of what I would want from this comic from Young Avengers and GLA (if that makes any sense).

Not sure about this. The art doesn't turn me off neccesarily. I'm open to new things. (I shut X-Statix out of my list because of the art, and look at what I missed!)

But still...Not sure...

[Sharcque]

OK --- I've backed off my original stance of boycotting this book. I'm still not a big fan of the art style, nor was I wanting an "Alpha Flight" take on the New Warriors, but I'm a sucker for anything New Warriors, so I'm gonna give it a try.

[Jack Flash]

I think the art looks Really Rad! I can't wait to check this series out!

[Sir Tim Drake]

Well unless your Geoff Johns and you revive a doormat franchise like Teen Titans. He's done It at DC. I wonder If he'd do It at Marvel with New Warriors.

Geoff Johns's Teen Titans has some good qualities, but it's just a pale shadow of New Teen Titans, in my opinion.

[DDM]

"Bad concept: A comic book with a reality show spin. Worse, the art looks like animation cells rather than real comic book art. Earth to Marvel, Earth to Marvel can you hear me? I didn't think so. Is New Warriors a cartoon in a comic book before it's a cartoon? This is what happens when Avi Arad thinks he has a creative bone in his body. You get crap in a bottle."

Bud...do yourself a favor and don't post if this is the best you can bring to the table. I'm sick and tired of wack job purists complaining about how comic book art must be portrayed as it has always been.

Way to keep an open mind. Way to challenge what the medium can do.

I don't want to read cartoons in comic books. The New Warriors (volume 3) is a vain attempt to tap into the teen market using gimmicks of reality television (which will never translate into a mainstream comic book) & animation in comic book form.

I have an open mind. What is a "wack job purist" by the way? Define in coloful detail.

I know what I like & can spot a stinker of a comic book. The current incarnation of the New Warriors won't last. Most fans will reject the book outright due to the slim premise & horrible cartoonish appearance of their favorite comic book characters.

You're the one who seems to not have the "open mind" given pejorative terms such as "wack job purist[s]."

There's a difference between constructive criticism & personal insults.

[DDM]

There's no such thing as "real comic book art".

Stop the moral relativism. I want comic book art to be comic book art--not cartoons. The New Warriors is a cartoon set to comic book. A bad idea since the New Warriors is not a cartoon. Also, the concept is just pissing on the fans. This book won't last. I'll be surprised it last 12 issues. But Joe Quesada can always relaunch the title...

[Sharcque]

Stop the moral relativism. I want comic book art to be comic book art--not cartoons. The New Warriors is a cartoon set to comic book. A bad idea since the New Warriors is not a cartoon. Also, the concept is just pissing on the fans. This book won't last. I'll be surprised it last 12 issues. But Joe Quesada can always relaunch the title...
It's a 6 issue mini.

[protege]

Well...I really hate Young´s art. :( He was such a bad choice when he did Venom (like every other artist, except maybe Paco Medina), I wasn´t even funny.

But I think he really evolved, great cartoony looks and it seems to fit the story.

It´s just a shame that after the debacle called Alpha Flight, Marvel doesn´t seem to learn and destroys another good property by flushing it down the comedy toilet. :mad:

On top of that it rips off Todd Nauck´s work!
So how do You feel about the upcoming Defenders series? BWAHAHAHAH!
I have to admit, I like Night Thrasher's updated look; who are the new heroes supposed to be? But the art is a major turn off for me.

[DDM]

It's a 6 issue mini.

Great! Then I know it won't last.

[DDM]

So how do You feel about the upcoming Defenders series? BWAHAHAHAH!
I have to admit, I like Night Thrasher's updated look; who are the new heroes supposed to be? But the art is a major turn off for me.

Kevin Maquire draws comic book characters for comic books. New Warriors is essentially a cartoon as a comic book. That's the difference.

[StoneGold]

Art looks ok . But I guess that Marvel's too scared to try an " adult " New Warriors comic.
Think about that one for a few minutes, try to figure out where the irony is.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Stop the moral relativism. I want comic book art to be comic book art--not cartoons. The New Warriors is a cartoon set to comic book. A bad idea since the New Warriors is not a cartoon.
Moral relativism? What are you talking about? There's no such thing as "real comic book art", that's a fact, and what you want or don't want doesn't enter into it. The fact is that people like Jack Kirby, Will Eisner, Jeff Smith, Jim Lee, Steve Skroce and Chris Ware all have different styles, and none of these styles are more "real" than any other. Maybe you don't like cartoonish art, and that's your absolute right, but let me tell you, there are other kinds of comics besides the adventures of muscular men in tights you so admire.

[BizarroBeachHead]

What about the art makes it look cartoony? The fact that it's bright and colorful? Because I've seen many different cartoons that don't look like this. The point is that in any art style, there are no set limitations. Saying that Young's style is not suited for comics because it's too cartoony is as ridiculous as saying Gabriele Dell'otto's style is unsuited because it's too real.

That being said, Young's style isn't my favorite. But this book in particular looks pretty smooth and snazzy. I'm not 100% on the concept yet, but since it's a mini, I'm inclined to give it a chance. It looks like it could be a fun romp.

[DDM]

Moral relativism? What are you talking about? There's no such thing as "real comic book art", that's a fact, and what you want or don't want doesn't enter into it. The fact is that people like Jack Kirby, Will Eisner, Jeff Smith, Jim Lee, Steve Skroce and Chris Ware all have different styles, and none of these styles are more "real" than any other. Maybe you don't like cartoonish art, and that's your absolute right, but let me tell you, there are other kinds of comics besides the adventures of muscular men in tights you so admire.

You are applying moral relativism to art when you said "there is no real comic book art." Yes, there is. Otherwise, kids would not go to art school & get degrees; these students are all being judged by certain set standards to perfect their craft to get comic book jobs. Without these standards, the students would not graduate art school. All art is very real. However, some art is more cartoonish than others. The art designs for New Warriors looks like animation cells--not comic book art. I would probably watch New Warriors if it were a television series with this appearance, but not read it as a comic book.

All of the characters have to be taken seriously. However, the editors are not taking the New Warriors seriously given the parody reality show premise. The editors are pandering by condescending to their audience rather than ascending their audience up to their level.

This artist needs to be employed by animation studios--not comic books. His art is misplaced.

[angry monkey]

Im a huge fan of skotties work. I'll definantly pick this up. :cool:

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Think about that one for a few minutes, try to figure out where the irony is.


Ok thats Is pretty Ironic when Ya think. Maybe I should have said " PG-13 " New Warriors comic. My comic store will tell me about It odds are.

[Alan2099]

personally, I hate the art work. It doesn't seem to suit the characters. The redisgns seem to go against what's been depicted in the past, and judging by the interview it doesn't seem like the creative team really cares anything about the characters.

It all comes off as a bad gimick attempt to me.

[Optimus]

What's up with Debrii and Microbe? I'd rather see Justice and Firestar. Other than that I like it. It's different. We have 30 books about regular super teams drawn in the regular style. There's room for something different.

[Ant-Man]

We have 30 books about regular super teams drawn in the regular style. There's room for something different.

You are right on. And for the people who are saying that the creators do not care about the characters why? Because they want to try something different with them? Or because the artist is not a Bagley clone? Or because the artist tweaked the look of some of the characters? Or because the creative team are introducing some new characters? What do these things have to do with the creators not having any respect for the characters? Not a damn thing you crack heads. If you are pissed because Nicieza and Bagley are not the creative team, that's fine. But to say Wells and Young do not care about the characters, because they are not producing stories just like Nicieza and Bagley did 15 years ago is assnine.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

You are right on. And for the people who are saying that the creators do not care about the characters why? Because they want to try something different with them? Or because the artist is not a Bagley clone? Or because the artist tweaked the look of some of the characters? Or because the creative team are introducing some new characters? What do these things have to do with the creators not having any respect for the characters? Not a damn thing you crack heads. If you are pissed because Nicieza and Bagley are not the creative team, that's fine. But to say Wells and Young do not care about the characters, because they are not producing stories just like Nicieza and Bagley did 15 years ago is assnine.


Some view the Warriors a certain way and feel that best represents them as charactors. Thier used to that direction and will be hard to move from It.

I think what makes most people mad Is that they see this as a huge philosofical change and the Creators are just saying how cool It will be. But you have to prove It to long time fans that this works. Thats the Idea of selling this comic.

[Ant-Man]

Some view the Warriors a certain way and feel that best represents them as charactors. Thier used to that direction and will be hard to move from It.

I think what makes most people mad Is that they see this as a huge philosofical change and the Creators are just saying how cool It will be. But you have to prove It to long time fans that this works. Thats the Idea of selling this comic.

I perfectly understand what you are saying SUPER, but if these long time fans don't like change, that is fine and dandy. But to say that because Wells is not treating the characters just like Nicieza did, so he does not care about them is just crazy. Why should one writer have to write a character, just like another writer does? Writers are not robots programmed to write in identical styles and directions. It is the same premise as the Bendis New Avengers. Because Bendis wanted to take the Avengers in a new direction, he does not care about the characters? This is just crazy to assume, because the writers themselves have stated many times over that they love the characters, which is why they are writing about them.

[cowboyfunk]

"I don't want to read cartoons in comic books. The New Warriors (volume 3) is a vain attempt to tap into the teen market using gimmicks of reality television (which will never translate into a mainstream comic book) & animation in comic book form.

I have an open mind. What is a "wack job purist" by the way? Define in coloful detail.

I know what I like & can spot a stinker of a comic book. The current incarnation of the New Warriors won't last. Most fans will reject the book outright due to the slim premise & horrible cartoonish appearance of their favorite comic book characters."

I'm not arguing your first point. For all I know, the book will blow like the solar wind. As it's not out yet, though, ya never know...

As for the wack job purist comment...that was fired at everyone who immediately dubbed this art A.) inherently bad or B.) of a sort that it should not be allowed in comics.

Comics are stories that use words and pictures. That's all. There is no further criteria. Should David Mack's more surreal work be banned form comics? Should Udon be kicked out of the biz for striving to imitate capcom's videogame art? Sheesh man...you're limiting the possibilities. If you don't like it fine...but if New Warriors can effectively use a cartoony style...more power to them.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I perfectly understand what you are saying SUPER, but if these long time fans don't like change, that is fine and dandy. But to say that because Wells is not treating the characters just like Nicieza did, so he does not care about them is just crazy. Why should one writer have to write a character, just like another writer does? Writers are not robots programmed to write in identical styles and directions. It is the same premise as the Bendis New Avengers. Because Bendis wanted to take the Avengers in a new direction, he does not care about the characters? This is just crazy to assume, because the writers themselves have stated many times over that they love the characters, which is why they are writing about them.



I don't think Bendis had a lotta love for Hawkeye , Scott Lang or Vision. More or less he put every charactor he's pretty much worked on at times on a Team book and with his name , It was bound to explode sales wise.

Bendis " New Avengers " Is good and It Is opening up newer stories. But alas.....I miss Hawkeye. But he'll be back soon enough.

[Archyduke]

I consider myself pretty open to different styles of art in comic-books, but I have some doubts about whether Skottie's designs will hold up in a typical super-hero sort of context. Look at the ankles, and the thinness of the limbs in general (Microbe nothwithstanding); it all looks very fluid and catchy in stills and promo images, but I'm not sure the anatomy will look at all plausible in the middle of a fight scene. Still, I'll give it a shot.

[Ant-Man]

Comics are stories that use words and pictures. That's all. There is no further criteria. Should David Mack's more surreal work be banned form comics? Should Udon be kicked out of the biz for striving to imitate capcom's videogame art? Sheesh man...you're limiting the possibilities. If you don't like it fine...but if New Warriors can effectively use a cartoony style...more power to them.

You are correct. If "cartoony" art is not "real" comic book art, then all of the comic books in japan, are not "real" comic books :rolleyes: . DDM just dispises Young's art, which is fine, but he/she is using an assinine response by saying that it is not "real" comic book art, if it does not fall into the mode Jack Kirby established in the 50's.

[Ant-Man]

I don't think Bendis had a lotta love for Hawkeye , Scott Lang or Vision. More or less he put every charactor he's pretty much worked on at times on a Team book and with his name , It was bound to explode sales wise.

Bendis " New Avengers " Is good and It Is opening up newer stories. But alas.....I miss Hawkeye. But he'll be back soon enough.

Why do people assume that if a writer kills or injures a character, that they don't like them? Because Claremont killed Jean Grey and Psylocke, he does not like them? Because Frank Miller killed Electra, he does not like her? Because the hero in a movie dies, the script writer did not like them? Where do people come up with these ideas?

[DDM]

You are correct. If "cartoony" art is not "real" comic book art, then all of the comic books in japan, are not "real" comic books :rolleyes: . DDM just dispises Young's art, which is fine, but he/she is using an assinine response by saying that it is not "real" comic book art, if it does not fall into the mode Jack Kirby established in the 50's.

No, I said the New Warriors look like animation cells--not a comic book. Do I have to be even more specific than this? Take a picture of the current Batman or Justice League Unlimited cartoons & parallel them to the New Warriors: They are almost the same! A cartoon is not a comic book. Otherwise, Neil Gaiman's The Sandman or Chris Claremont's Uncanny X-Men or Alan Moore's Captain Britain would not be taken seriously...

[Ant-Man]

No, I said the New Warriors look like animation cells--not a comic book. Do I have to be even more specific than this? Take a picture of the current Batman or Justice League Unlimited cartoons & parallel them to the New Warriors: They are almost the same! A cartoon is not a comic book. Otherwise, Neil Gaiman's The Sandman or Chris Claremont's Uncanny X-Men or Alan Moore's Captain Britain would not be taken seriously...

Yes, but animation cells are done on acetate, and transferred on to film. Skottie Young's pencils, inks, and colors, are done on comic book boards, and printed in a comic book. While it may look like animation cell art, it is in fact, 100% comic book art my friend ;) . I understand that you do not like it, but Young's New Warriors art is done using the same materials as every body else that is drawing a Marvel comic book each month.

[streator]

No, I said the New Warriors look like animation cells--not a comic book. Do I have to be even more specific than this? Take a picture of the current Batman or Justice League Unlimited cartoons & parallel them to the New Warriors: They are almost the same! A cartoon is not a comic book. Otherwise, Neil Gaiman's The Sandman or Chris Claremont's Uncanny X-Men or Alan Moore's Captain Britain would not be taken seriously...
people consider mutant dinosaurs serious (current uncanny arc)?
i think the artwork looks great, personally. i have no interest in the new warriors, but this appeals more to me than the last attempt with jamal igle.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Why do people assume that if a writer kills or injures a character, that they don't like them? Because Claremont killed Jean Grey and Psylocke, he does not like them? Because Frank Miller killed Electra, he does not like her? Because the hero in a movie dies, the script writer did not like them? Where do people come up with these ideas?


Claremont didn't revive Jean Grey. That was a decision by Marvel at the time to bring her back. The death of Betsy was only supposed to be awhile. But Quesada took the stance at the time that " Dead " means dead and Claremont pushed her return back.

Miller liked Electra and didn't want her revived. That was a Marvel decision as with Jean Grey.

[The Mirrorball Man]

No, I said the New Warriors look like animation cells--not a comic book. Do I have to be even more specific than this? Take a picture of the current Batman or Justice League Unlimited cartoons & parallel them to the New Warriors: They are almost the same! A cartoon is not a comic book. Otherwise, Neil Gaiman's The Sandman or Chris Claremont's Uncanny X-Men or Alan Moore's Captain Britain would not be taken seriously...
It's absurd. People take Jeff Smith's Bone and Carl Barks' Uncle Scrooge very seriously, even if they're cartoonish. Again, maybe you don't like that kind of art, but dismissing it entirely is only possible if you have a very narrow perspective on comic books.

[Sir Tim Drake]

It's absurd. People take Jeff Smith's Bone and Carl Barks' Uncle Scrooge very seriously, even if they're cartoonish. Again, maybe you don't like that kind of art, but dismissing it entirely is only possible if you have a very narrow perspective on comic books.

I agree in principle, but Barks and Smith both drew better than this guy.

[The Mirrorball Man]

I agree in principle, but Barks and Smith both drew better than this guy.
Well, alright. Let's just pretend I used Archie and Magic Pickle as examples, ok? ;)

[Sharcque]

but this appeals more to me than the last attempt with jamal igle.
ugh! Don't remind me!!!

My objection to this book is that I think this series is gonna kill any future for the New Warriors. Do you really think Alpha Flight is gonna come back anytime soon? The combination of art and storyline on this book are burying it. That said, I'm still gonna buy it, as i love the New Warriors.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

ugh! Don't remind me!!!

My objection to this book is that I think this series is gonna kill any future for the New Warriors. Do you really think Alpha Flight is gonna come back anytime soon? The combination of art and storyline on this book are burying it. That said, I'm still gonna buy it, as i love the New Warriors.


Alpha Flight will be back. At some point It will be revived with a hot creative team. I could see Marvel using Alpha Flight to having Wolverine being a team member of 3 teams ! Imagine that .....X-Men , Avengers and Alpha Flight !

[Ivan Isaacs]

Alpha Flight will be back. At some point It will be revived with a hot creative team. I could see Marvel using Alpha Flight to having Wolverine being a team member of 3 teams ! Imagine that .....X-Men , Avengers and Alpha Flight !

You mean 5 teams - he's on X-Men Team A (Astonishing), B (Uncanny) ,C (Adjectivless), an Avenger and then he would be on a fifth team. ;)

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/219810

[SUPERECWFAN1]

You mean 5 teams - he's on X-Men Team A (Astonishing), B (Uncanny) ,C (Adjectivless), an Avenger and then he would be on a fifth team. ;)

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/219810


Ok your right about teams. I should have said groups. He'll be a key member of the X-Men group , Avengers and now Alpha Flight. Imagine the sales ....CHA CHING!!

[CoreyB]

Replying to some comments made a few pages back:

The first New Warriors series lasted 75 issues (and 4 annuals).
The second New Warriors series lasted 10 issues (and a Wizard 0 issue).
This new series is a finite mini-series.

[Alan2099]

Ok your right about teams. I should have said groups. He'll be a key member of the X-Men group , Avengers and now Alpha Flight. Imagine the sales ....CHA CHING!!
Heck at this rate, let's just put him in all the titles.
Think of it.
The Amazing Spider-man...Staring WOLVERINE!
The Fantastic Four: Featuing WOLVERINE!
Amazing Fantasy of WOLVERINE!
Mary Jane and WOLVERINE!

[BlackKnight]

Yes, but animation cells are done on acetate, and transferred on to film. Skottie Young's pencils, inks, and colors, are done on comic book boards, and printed in a comic book. While it may look like animation cell art, it is in fact, 100% comic book art my friend ;) . I understand that you do not like it, but Young's New Warriors art is done using the same materials as every body else that is drawing a Marvel comic book each month.

First, it looks like Cartoon art, I don't like that, I am tired of people saying that I can't call something bad that I think looks bad.
Not you Ant-Man, but someone else in this thread actually said that. Also, I don't like the concept for this, so I am not getting it.
As for your idea that if a charater is killed then a writer does not like them, I think that is all in how the charater was dealt with in there death.
Phoenix- classic hero death, sacrificing herself for the universe.
Hawkeye- pointless shock value death.
Ant-Man- pointless shock value death.

See the deference.

[DDM]

It's absurd. People take Jeff Smith's Bone and Carl Barks' Uncle Scrooge very seriously, even if they're cartoonish. Again, maybe you don't like that kind of art, but dismissing it entirely is only possible if you have a very narrow perspective on comic books.

When Bone joins the X-Men, we'll talk. Otherwise, I'll stand by what I said in an earlier post. You're citing Uncle Scrooge--a cartoon before he was a comic book.

The New Warriors has never been a cartoon but a comic book.

[Sid]

People take Uncle Scrooge very seriously?? Heh. Not around these parts.

[The Mirrorball Man]

When Bone joins the X-Men, we'll talk. Otherwise, I'll stand by what I said in an earlier post.
Ok, now I understand. You think that X-Men is a "real comic book". That settles it, then.

[nubly]

You mean 5 teams - he's on X-Men Team A (Astonishing), B (Uncanny) ,C (Adjectivless), an Avenger and then he would be on a fifth team. ;)

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/219810

why does the astonishing team get to be "A"? dont make me bonk you with a nerf bat

[nubly]

Alpha Flight will be back. At some point It will be revived with a hot creative team. I could see Marvel using Alpha Flight to having Wolverine being a team member of 3 teams ! Imagine that .....X-Men , Avengers and Alpha Flight !

why not? i think he is the one character who has been on most teams:

SHIELD, alpha flight, x-men, fantastic four, acolytes, horsemen and avengers. wouldnt be surprised if im missing some

[Stony]

When Bone joins the X-Men, we'll talk. Otherwise, I'll stand by what I said in an earlier post. You're citing Uncle Scrooge--a cartoon before he was a comic book.
*ahem*

I'm afraid not.
Uncle Scrooge first appeared in a Donald Duck comic titled "Night on Bare Mountain" long long *long* before he ever showed up on-screen.

[Michael P]

No, I said the New Warriors look like animation cells--not a comic book.

Animation cells. You mean like this:

http://img224.echo.cx/img224/2233/gargoyle5dg.jpg

Or this:

http://jeannero.free.fr/dessins-animes-2/JohnnyQuest.jpg

Or maybe this:

http://img224.echo.cx/img224/2091/titanae8tp.jpg

Please stop revealing your ignorance.

[Alan2099]

Nice work. calling somebody else ignorant then not even being able to post your own images.

[Michael P]

Nice work. calling somebody else ignorant then not even being able to post your own images.
The oddities surrounding the html tags don't make him any less wrong.

[Ant-Man]

Hawkeye- pointless shock value death.
Ant-Man- pointless shock value death.

See the deference.

What evidence have we ever received that indicates that Bendis killed these characters because he did not care for them. He has never stated that he hated Vision, Hawkeye, Jack of Hearts, and Ant-Man. Just because some people did not like the way the deaths were written, compared to how the death of Phoenix was written, does not mean that Bendis hated them. Like I stated in a previous post, Miller killed Electra, but I doubt he hated her. Claremont killed Psylocke, but I doubt he hated her. Lobdell killed Colossus, but I doubt he hated him. While some of the deaths in comic books have been written better than others, it does not mean the writer hated the characters, because he did not write the death to yours or my standards.

[Ant-Man]

Animation cells. You mean like this:

http://img224.echo.cx/img224/2233/gargoyle5dg.jpg

Or this:

http://jeannero.free.fr/dessins-animes-2/JohnnyQuest.jpg

Or maybe this:

http://img224.echo.cx/img224/2091/titanae8tp.jpg

Please stop revealing your ignorance.

Hey, Johnny Quest looks just like Skottie Young's Speedball :rolleyes: . In all seriousness, If you do not like Skottie's art, that is fine. But to say it is not "real" comic book art is crazy. If you are one of the people who are saying this, you should quit, because it makes you look like you are on crack.

[Michael P]

Hey, Johnny Quest looks just like Skottie Young's Speedball :rolleyes: . In all seriousness, If you do not like Skottie's art, that is fine. But to say it is not "real" comic book art is crazy. If you are one of the people who are saying this, you should quit, because it makes you look like you are on crack.
I'm not saying that. I'm refuting DDM's ridiculous claim that there's only one "real" style in each medium.

[Ant-Man]

I'm not saying that. I'm refuting DDM's ridiculous claim that there's only one "real" style in each medium.

I know you are not, I was just using your images of Johnny Quest to make a joke about his resemblance to Speedball. I understand that you are one of the sane posters on this subject about what comic book art is. Which is "any" form of art published in a comic book, whether painted, pencils and inks, digital, etc...................

[Michael P]

Then we're cool.

[UniqueFrequency]

[QUOTE=BlackKnight]The art is horrible, the concept has been used over and over and over, sorry no more reality tv type comics thanks. /QUOTE]

the one comic i can think of with a 'reality tv' spin was Wildguard. and i LOVED that book.

i'm rooting for this New Warriors too. the colouring and art goes so well together!

[nubly]

i agree with DDM on a certain point. this 'cartoony' artwork needs to stay with 'cartoon' comics, not 'standard' comics. i guess the best way to describe it, in my view, is the comics that keep up with continuity (marvel, DC, valiant, etc) are 'standard' and the ones that do not keep up with continuity (gladstone, NOW, star, etc) are 'cartoon' comics.

on a hypocritical note though, the artwork on bone and (that aardvark book that lasted 300 or so issues) works perfect for those books

EDIT: omitted "real" and added "standard"

[The Mirrorball Man]

i guess the best way to describe it, in my view, is the comics that keep up with continuity (marvel, DC, valiant, etc) are 'real' and the ones that do not keep up with continuity (gladstone, NOW, star, etc) are 'cartoon' comics.
The word "real" is obviously problematic, since super-heroes comics make for such a small part of the worldwide comics production, and even these comics are not consistently drawn in the same style.

[Ant-Man]

i agree with DDM on a certain point. this 'cartoony' artwork needs to stay with 'cartoon' comics, not 'real' comics. i guess the best way to describe it, in my view, is the comics that keep up with continuity (marvel, DC, valiant, etc) are 'real' and the ones that do not keep up with continuity (gladstone, NOW, star, etc) are 'cartoon' comics.

on a hypocritical note though, the artwork on bone and (that aardvark book that lasted 300 or so issues) works perfect for the book

nubly, I think in stead of using the word "real", maybe you should change it to "standard" or something. It makes it sound as if you are saying that Wells and Young's New Warriors is not a comic book by using the word "real". How about saying that young's art on this project is not "standard" comic book art instead. This might avoid the confusion that me and other posters have concerning the subject, and us not thinking you are on crack :D .

[nubly]

nubly, I think in stead of using the word "real", maybe you should change it to "standard" or something. It makes it sound as if you are saying that Wells and Young's New Warriors is not a comic book by using the word "real". How about saying that young's art on this project is not "standard" comic book art instead. This might avoid the confusion that me and other posters have concerning the subject, and us not thinking you are on crack :D .

done. thanks, i couldnt think of a word to use in place of real

[NormanB]

*ahem*

I'm afraid not.
Uncle Scrooge first appeared in a Donald Duck comic titled "Night on Bare Mountain" long long *long* before he ever showed up on-screen.

This mans speaks the truth.

[BlackKnight]

What evidence have we ever received that indicates that Bendis killed these characters because he did not care for them. He has never stated that he hated Vision, Hawkeye, Jack of Hearts, and Ant-Man. Just because some people did not like the way the deaths were written, compared to how the death of Phoenix was written, does not mean that Bendis hated them. Like I stated in a previous post, Miller killed Electra, but I doubt he hated her. Claremont killed Psylocke, but I doubt he hated her. Lobdell killed Colossus, but I doubt he hated him. While some of the deaths in comic books have been written better than others, it does not mean the writer hated the characters, because he did not write the death to yours or my standards.

Look, I don't know if he hated them or not, but he has said that he thought the charaters of Jack of Hearts and Ant-Man were pointless and in an interview said that he tried to kill Ant-man in Alias but was told he couldn't because the charater was in the Avengers. Hate is a strong word, howabout dislike.
As for Claremont killing Psylocke, if you read the interviews she was always supposed to come back, and Colossus was a very noble death, that payed homage to the charater rather then simplly killing him to get sales.

[BlackKnight]

[QUOTE=BlackKnight]The art is horrible, the concept has been used over and over and over, sorry no more reality tv type comics thanks. /QUOTE]

the one comic i can think of with a 'reality tv' spin was Wildguard. and i LOVED that book.

i'm rooting for this New Warriors too. the colouring and art goes so well together!

Hercules is doing the reality tv thing, the new push at marvel is to go for more reality in there comics. Nuff said there.
As for the art well each to his or her own I guess, the first time I saw it I just cringed cause to me it was horrible.

[Neolucifer]

mmm while i dont share's DDM views , about what should be allowed or not into comics art , i'll agree with him that this would work better in a cartoon . Still it is worth trying as it might work , look at Invincible (with also a quite cartoony look) , Lions , Tigers and Bears and a few others .

i'm not a fan neither of the real TV angle . i'm also not even a fan of New warriors , as i disliked a few of its team members such as Speedball , Night trasher , Rage , Justice ...
However i'll give it a try , as i do with most new stuff .

[DDM]

Animation cells. You mean like this:

http://img224.echo.cx/img224/2233/gargoyle5dg.jpg

Or this:

http://jeannero.free.fr/dessins-animes-2/JohnnyQuest.jpg

Or maybe this:

http://img224.echo.cx/img224/2091/titanae8tp.jpg

Please stop revealing your ignorance.

Those animation cells are 30 years old or more. I'm referring to current animation cells such as Justice League Unlimited, Batman, & Krypto. The New Warriors "art" can be compated to current animationn cells.

http://jl.toonzone.net/jlu/jlu.ht1.jpg

Justice League Unlimited (http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/tv_shows/jlu/)

Batman 2004 cartoon (http://www.legionsofgotham.org/BatmanHeroesIndex.html)

Therefore, it's hardly ignorance where I'm coming from. I listed the names & thought people would know the reference since many are farmiliar with the Cartoon Network.

Yes, the New Warriors comic book is a cartoon in all but name.

[DrDoomX]

Those animation cells are 30 years old or more. I'm referring to current animation cells such as Justice League Unlimited, Batman, & Krypto. The New Warriors "art" can be compated to current animationn cells.

http://jl.toonzone.net/jlu/jlu.ht1.jpg

Justice League Unlimited (http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/tv_shows/jlu/)

Batman 2004 cartoon (http://www.legionsofgotham.org/BatmanHeroesIndex.html)

Therefore, it's hardly ignorance where I'm coming from. I listed the names & thought people would know the reference since many are farmiliar with the Cartoon Network.

Yes, the New Warriors comic book is a cartoon in all but name.

Let me ask you a question DDM, do you respect other peoples opinion? You seem not to, you know I agree with the majority, and Michaels Post shows it...there is no such thing as comic book art, its basically going into a museum and saying there is only real painted art....

I personally think the artwork looks wicked, and I like the cartoony look...hell I like the cartoony styles of Ramos and Wieringo....because they work well with the writer.

Just my two cents.

[NormanB]

Those animation cells are 30 years old or more.

Yes, because Titan AE was made in 1975. :rolleyes:

For someone who disregards everybody else's opinion, you sure love squawking your own over and over again.

We get it. You don't like the art.

That doesn't make it any less of a comic. Nor does that make it a cartoon.

What books DO you like? There's got to be some threads about them somewhere. Go find them and talk about something you like instead of bitching the same bitch again and again and again.

[DrDoomX]

Yes, because Titan AE was made in 1975. :rolleyes:

For someone who disregards everybody else's opinion, you sure love squawking your own over and over again.

We get it. You don't like the art.

That doesn't make it any less of a comic. Nor does that make it a cartoon.

What books DO you like? There's got to be some threads about them somewhere. Go find them and talk about something you like instead of bitching the same bitch again and again and again.

Amen brother, could not have said it better!

[BlackKnight]

Let me ask you a question DDM, do you respect other peoples opinion? You seem not to, you know I agree with the majority, and Michaels Post shows it...there is no such thing as comic book art, its basically going into a museum and saying there is only real painted art....

I personally think the artwork looks wicked, and I like the cartoony look...hell I like the cartoony styles of Ramos and Wieringo....because they work well with the writer.

Just my two cents.


Actually there is a such a thing as comic book art, if there wasn't there would be no comic books. LOL. If the art is in a comic it is comic book art. What you all are fighting about is different styles of art. The cartoony style is used more in cartoons and in my opinion is more appriote to the cartoon rather then the comic. SO how about you stop telling him he is wrong and try and realize that it is just the difference of a word. You like it, others don't.

[DrDoomX]

Actually there is a such a thing as comic book art, if there wasn't there would be no comic books. LOL. If the art is in a comic it is comic book art. What you all are fighting about is different styles of art. The cartoony style is used more in cartoons and in my opinion is more appriote to the cartoon rather then the comic. SO how about you stop telling him he is wrong and try and realize that it is just the difference of a word. You like it, others don't.

I am not telling him he is wrong....you donot get the point. He is telling everybody is he right and we are wrong. Look I donot give a damn if you like the art or not, but contesting it, and disregarding everybodies onpinion is another thing....Yes there is such a thing as comic book art, but you did not get what I meant...not one persons style or art is the right one....because each one has a different style...So maybe you should read things a little closely next time. I am not here to attack anyone, I simply agree with everyone else on this matter.

[BlackKnight]

I am not telling him he is wrong....you donot get the point. He is telling everybody is he right and we are wrong. Look I donot give a damn if you like the art or not, but contesting it, and disregarding everybodies onpinion is another thing....Yes there is such a thing as comic book art, but you did not get what I meant...not one persons style or art is the right one....because each one has a different style...So maybe you should read things a little closely next time. I am not here to attack anyone, I simply agree with everyone else on this matter.

Wow I did read it close and I got from it what I posted about so perhaps you need to reword your posts, or maybe read others closer because until he was attacked by many people DBM was just voicing his opinion and his opinin is that is not comic art. Disagree, agree don't care, but that is his opinion and is just as valid as anyone elses. Also if you are refering to how he worded his posts in agree with everyone else then ok, your right he does word them badly, but if you are agreeing with everone else that this is good art, then well I am not sure where you got that from as at least half of the posters here don't care for it. Truthfully its sometimes hard to follow some peoples post as they bounce all over the place in what they are talking about.

[DrDoomX]

Wow I did read it close and I got from it what I posted about so perhaps you need to reword your posts, or maybe read others closer because until he was attacked by many people DBM was just voicing his opinion and his opinin is that is not comic art. Disagree, agree don't care, but that is his opinion and is just as valid as anyone elses. Also if you are refering to how he worded his posts in agree with everyone else then ok, your right he does word them badly, but if you are agreeing with everone else that this is good art, then well I am not sure where you got that from as at least half of the posters here don't care for it. Truthfully its sometimes hard to follow some peoples post as they bounce all over the place in what they are talking about.


Well then I guess you can say the same thing to everyone else...Because thats how everybody sees it. This is really a silly conversation and I really donot see how I am bouncing all over the place....but then again this is pretty silly...

[BlackKnight]

Well then I guess you can say the same thing to everyone else...Because thats how everybody sees it. This is really a silly conversation and I really donot see how I am bouncing all over the place....but then again this is pretty silly...

Well case in point I don't know what the heck you are talking about here are you referring to the fact that people say that there is not such thing as comic book art :rolleyes: or are you talkingabout people liking the art or what.

As for silly I found most of the people attacking him silly as they were arguing over the use of word.

[DrDoomX]

Well case in point I don't know what the heck you are talking about here are you referring to the fact that people say that there is not such thing as comic book art :rolleyes: or are you talkingabout people liking the art or what.

As for silly I found most of the people attacking him silly as they were arguing over the use of word.


Look its not that hard...DDM basically said its not comic book art, because it looks different, and basically he started to disregard everyone as usually...if he has something to say, let him say it...first of all you are talking for some one else....I was not attacking you, infact I was just questioning DDMs reasoning, so let the man speak for himself.....Donot speak for him.

[BlackKnight]

Look its not that hard...DDM basically said its not comic book art, because it looks different, and basically he started to disregard everyone as usually...if he has something to say, let him say it...first of all you are talking for some one else....I was not attacking you, infact I was just questioning DDMs reasoning, so let the man speak for himself.....Donot speak for him.

I think I was tired of the arguement since it is similar to others that people TRY and use with me. It just breaks down to he doesn't like it so its not comic art to him, you do so it is. Pretty simple.

I think anything that appears in a comic is comic art. I hate cartoony art in comic books, but that is just my preference.

In conclusion my problem is you are all attacking him because his opinion is different then yours, and that is all.

[DrDoomX]

I think I was tired of the arguement since it is similar to others that people TRY and use with me. It just breaks down to he doesn't like it so its not comic art to him, you do so it is. Pretty simple.

I think anything that appears in a comic is comic art. I hate cartoony art in comic books, but that is just my preference.

In conclusion my problem is you are all attacking him because his opinion is different then yours, and that is all.

Look you are just doing the same thing as you are accusing us of...you are speaking for some one else. True you are defending him, which i a good thing, you are also speaking for him...which is not right. You donot know what DDM feels about this either. So maybe you should wait to see what he has to say first before you jump in....

[BlackKnight]

Look you are just doing the same thing as you are accusing us of...you are speaking for some one else. True you are defending him, which i a good thing, you are also speaking for him...which is not right. You donot know what DDM feels about this either. So maybe you should wait to see what he has to say first before you jump in....

Hey truce, I don't know what I am doing that is what I am accusing you of. But anyway, Lets just except that there are hundreds of sides to every opinion and move on. :D

[DrDoomX]

Hey truce, I don't know what I am doing that is what I am accusing you of. But anyway, Lets just except that there are hundreds of sides to every opinion and move on. :D


Alright Truce! Lets do what My wife and I say when we argue, lets agree to disagree. I think if more people used that there would be an end to lot of problems...Knight you and I have gotten along before in the past so no hard feelings ok? :)

[BlackKnight]

Alright Truce! Lets do what My wife and I say when we argue, lets agree to disagree. I think if more people used that there would be an end to lot of problems...Knight you and I have gotten along before in the past so no hard feelings ok? :)

Yea, and its funny but my wife and I use the agree to disagree a lot to. Great minds and all.

[Typo Lad]

I dunno about this.

The art isn't BAD per se. As someone else mentioned, it's darn better than the artist on the last NW comic. I'm just not sure it's a good fit for the characters. I could see this guy drawing a Speedball mini, for sure. But Nova's suposed to be an old school Silver Agey type design, and Night Thrasher is suppsoed to be dark. Not sure if they can pull that off. I also hate the Night Thrasher trenchcoat. I DO like that they made Namorita blue again.

I'm also getting a vibe that the writer is knowledgeable about the characters. When i heard the reality tv angle I thought "No way would Dwayne agree to that!" So then I read a comment saying that the fact that NT thought this up is an important plot point.

I also like the idea of it NOT being set in NY. In fact, that part of it actually resembels my Epic Pitch, which featured a few of these characters.

I'm willing to pick up the first issue.

[RustyShackleford]

The art isn't BAD per se. As someone else mentioned, it's darn better than the artist on the last NW comic.

Which artist on the last NW comic? There were four of 'em. :confused: For my taste, I though Steve Scott and Jamal Igle did fine on their issues, and I think a good number of folks would welcome Jamal back on NW based on his Firestorm work.

But NW v2 did look like pretty bad for the Jason Armstrong and Karl Kerschl issues.


I'm also getting a vibe that the writer is knowledgeable about the characters. When i heard the reality tv angle I thought "No way would Dwayne agree to that!" So then I read a comment saying that the fact that NT thought this up is an important plot point.


That's where I'm hung up as well. I hate to make the accusation that Zeb Wells doesn't understand the character since he said he went back and read some of the old run, but this move being prompted by Dwayne demonstrates he's being written out of character at the least.

[DrDoomX]

Yea, and its funny but my wife and I use the agree to disagree a lot to. Great minds and all.

Yep so very true and if more people used it we would be in a much better place :D

[Sharcque]

I just read this entire thread, and then beat my head against the wall 10 times.
That said, here's my two cents:

1. I do understand what people mean when they say "comic book art". I don't think there's anything wrong with that phrase. And yes, this art is very "Teen Titans Go"-ish.

2. This art is not going to be everyone's cup of tea, as evidenced by this thread.

3. I think Marvel is not giving the New Warriors a chance. Mixing this art with this plot is a death-wish. It will result in a lot of people not buying it because of the art, and a whole different group of people not buying it because of the storyline. Look around the various boards, most New Warriors fans want a serious take on this book, not some tongue-in-cheek story ala the last Alpha Flight mini.

Now, after saying all this, I'm still gonna buy the book, but I'm not expecting much. Just a sucker for anything New Warriors. And while the art is not necessarily to my liking, I do like it better than any of the art on the Volume 2 series.

[DDM]

1. I do understand what people mean when they say "comic book art". I don't think there's anything wrong with that phrase. And yes, this art is very "Teen Titans Go"-ish.

Teen Titans Go is a comic book version of the Cartoon Network cartoon.



3. I think Marvel is not giving the New Warriors a chance. Mixing this art with this plot is a death-wish. It will result in a lot of people not buying it because of the art, and a whole different group of people not buying it because of the storyline. Look around the various boards, most New Warriors fans want a serious take on this book, not some tongue-in-cheek story ala the last Alpha Flight mini.

Now, after saying all this, I'm still gonna buy the book, but I'm not expecting much. Just a sucker for anything New Warriors. And while the art is not necessarily to my liking, I do like it better than any of the art on the Volume 2 series.

I still have the first 50 issues of The New Warriors (volume1). Originally, I bought the book for Firestar. Despite a few plot holes such as the Magma/Nova Roma retcon (that has since been re-retconned by Claremont himself), I enjoyed the series. But based on the current art & silly gimmick plot, I'm not going to buy this incarnation of the New Warriors. Nighthrasher is a millionaire; he doesn't need a reality based television show to get back to being a hero. The real Nighthrasher would not have anything to do with such an offer.

[streator]

Teen Titans Go is a comic book version of the Cartoon Network cartoon.





I still have the first 50 issues of The New Warriors (volume1). Originally, I bought the book for Firestar. Despite a few plot holes such as the Magma/Nova Roma retcon (that has since been re-retconned by Claremont himself), I enjoyed the series. But based on the current art & silly gimmick plot, I'm not going to buy this incarnation of the New Warriors. Nighthrasher is a millionaire; he doesn't need a reality based television show to get back to being a hero. The real Nighthrasher would not have anything to do with such an offer.
nighthrasher isnt real. he hasnt been used in a long time because the new warriors as a book/concept have failed to maintain enough readers. marvel is trying something else with the characters, seeing as how the standard/super hero attempt has failed twice now. youre not going to read it, okay. it still exists, and its still going to be published. cut losses and move on.

[nubly]

nighthrasher isnt real. he hasnt been used in a long time because the new warriors as a book/concept have failed to maintain enough readers. marvel is trying something else with the characters, seeing as how the standard/super hero attempt has failed twice now. youre not going to read it, okay. it still exists, and its still going to be published. cut losses and move on.


i wouldsnt say that it failed the first time. it did last for 75 issues. at the end, the writer just didnt produce good stories

[Typo Lad]

i wouldsnt say that it failed the first time. it did last for 75 issues. at the end, the writer just didnt produce good stories

New Warriors suffered GREATLy when Fabian left. Evan Skolnick was okay, but it was like he was trying so hard to be Fabian Niceza, who had really pushed the envelope.

I disagree with Tim Drake's earlier comment that New Warriors was a Titans riff. In fact, I think it worked out great.

Night Thrasher was the best character with the worst damn name, too.

[streator]

i wouldsnt say that it failed the first time. it did last for 75 issues. at the end, the writer just didnt produce good stories
by failed i meant canceled, apologies. the cast of characters didnt have the same staying power as the avengers or whomever.

[Typo Lad]

I still have the first 50 issues of The New Warriors (volume1). Originally, I bought the book for Firestar. Despite a few plot holes such as the Magma/Nova Roma retcon (that has since been re-retconned by Claremont himself), I enjoyed the series. But based on the current art & silly gimmick plot, I'm not going to buy this incarnation of the New Warriors. Nighthrasher is a millionaire; he doesn't need a reality based television show to get back to being a hero. The real Nighthrasher would not have anything to do with such an offer.

I'm going to cause a few heart attacks when I say I agree with DDM on this (Although I have to point out that the name is Night Thrasher, two words, not one).

Dwayne taylor is essentially Bruce Wayne. His whole origin is what if Alfred shot the Waynes so that he could create an ultimate warrior driven by that event. He's got a brilliant tactical mind, and is worth more than Tony Stark these days.

Volume 2 had the same error, having Dwayne "interning" for Stark-Fujikawa. What? Sure, it was a "cover", but who would buy that? That's like Donald Trump deciding to go work for someone else.

Still, I'll give it ONE issue. If they show this is part of some master plot of Dwaynes, I'll buy it.

If it's an "Apprentice" type deal, no thanks.

[Typo Lad]

by failed i meant canceled, apologies. the cast of characters didnt have the same staying power as the avengers or whomever.

While I would agree that they New Warriors aren't as big a franchise as The Avengers, I would like to point out that for much of their run, they outsold the Avengers. They were one of Marvel's most popular books for years. So popular that they spun off two series (Night Thrasher and Nova Volume 2) and a mini series (Justice).

They started out as characters no one wanted to see, and ended up being huge cash cows.

I still wouldn't call them A List, but they're definitely the top of the B list.

[Grant]

Far as I'm concerned the art is the only interesting aspect of the book to me. Don't care about the New Warriors and the reality show concept. But I think the art looks pretty slick.

[Grant]

Art looks ok . But I guess that Marvel's too scared to try an " adult " New Warriors comic.

Seems like Marvel is doing nothing but "adult" comic books. Almost everything they do caters to people who've been reading comics for 20 plus years.

[BlackKnight]

Seems like Marvel is doing nothing but "adult" comic books. Almost everything they do caters to people who've been reading comics for 20 plus years.

I am sorry, what marvel are you reading, I am reading the one that is modernizing and reimaging almost all there heroes so that writers don't have to use the continuum that people have been reading for 20 years.

[noodleboy]

I hope this gets collected in digest form, then I will definitely buy it for sure. I do find the art interesting, something a little different.

[The Mirrorball Man]

I am sorry, what marvel are you reading, I am reading the one that is modernizing and reimaging almost all there heroes so that writers don't have to use the continuum that people have been reading for 20 years.
The continuity might be a little looser these days, but the artistic and narrative approach is pretty much the same as it's always been, and can only really appeal to those who are already emotionally invested in these characters.

[darkerthanscarlet]

I've always loved the New Warrior cahracters, so I'll defo get this.

Looks like a great mix of old and new. Love the new looks for Namorita and Thrash.

Wonder if Namorita will still have her new powers from the 2nd series i.e. invisibility/cameoflage, acids, etc.?

Love Speedball, so can't wait to see him in action - think the skinny, slimmed down version is the way to go.

[blastrodelamenta]

Story sounds like anus, but that is some funky art.

[BlackKnight]

The continuity might be a little looser these days, but the artistic and narrative approach is pretty much the same as it's always been, and can only really appeal to those who are already emotionally invested in these characters.

THe artistic approach has changed just look at the comic that this thread is about. Also the narrative approach is only the same if you look at in a very broad way. If you really look at you will see that Marvel has decompressed there stories, what was told just as well if not better in two or three issues only 5 to 10 years ago is now being told in 6 to 10 issue arcs. There is more pointless talking heads, and writers are allowed to totally revamp charaters ignoring any of their history they want to. New Warriors, Black Panther, Black Knight in Black Panther comic etc.... And you are telling me this is the same.

[ohmygosh]

Crappy art , crappy story. If this mini series is a test to see whether it can be a ongoing , it will fail and it will fail spectacularly.

God knows what Joe Q is really thinking about ,he seemed to be running marvel to the ground nowadays with numerous infantile crappy books.

[UniqueFrequency]

Crappy art , crappy story. If this mini series is a test to see whether it can be a ongoing , it will fail and it will fail spectacularly.

God knows what Joe Q is really thinking about ,he seemed to be running marvel to the ground nowadays with numerous infantile crappy books.

it's nice to have people who know that everything about the issue is crappy a whole 2 months before it's even released...

[BlackKnight]

it's nice to have people who know that everything about the issue is crappy a whole 2 months before it's even released...


Yes its amazing how people use there minds to judge that they don't like the art and the concept sounds crappy to them, so they won't buy it. Simpling amazing how there able to prejudge like that. :rolleyes:

[Typo Lad]

Well, he can find the concept crappy, but yeah, judging a story before you read it?

I mean, if I were judging comics by marketing copy, then I would have loved Identity Crises ("A love letter to the silver age") and Avengers:Disasemmbled, and hated Young Avengers.

[BlackKnight]

Well, he can find the concept crappy, but yeah, judging a story before you read it?

I mean, if I were judging comics by marketing copy, then I would have loved Identity Crises ("A love letter to the silver age") and Avengers:Disasemmbled, and hated Young Avengers.

Sorry to respond again, but the concept that you have to read it before you judge it one of the most flawed ideas I have seen used on the boards. If that was true, people would have to read ever comic, ever book try ever product, and go to ever movie before they would have an idea of they liked it or not. People can use there MINDS and look at the concept and the art and judge that this comic is going to be crappy to them. Just accept that.

[Typo Lad]

Sorry to respond again,

Please don't fell sorry. I like your posts.

but the concept that you have to read it before you judge it one of the most flawed ideas I have seen used on the boards.

Not what I was saying, per se. Explination follows.

If that was true, people would have to read ever comic, ever book try ever product, and go to ever movie before they would have an idea of they liked it or not. People can use there MINDS and look at the concept and the art and judge that this comic is going to be crappy to them. Just accept that.

I don't expect everyone to try everything. However, it's the parent in me being picky.

You can't say "I don't like spinach." if you haven't tried it. You CAN say 'I do not like the way spinach smells/looks and therefor I will not eat it". However, you don't KNOW that you don't like spinach, per se.

So too, you can say the concept sounds bad (which I agree with) and that the art looks bad (I disagree. Different, yes, but not bad per se), but you cannot say that the story itself is bad, as you haven't been able to judge it.

It's like Young Avengers. Conceptually it just struck me as dumb as hell. Marvel's never been much for 'kid" heroes. Spider-Man was in High School, but was Spider-Man, not Spider-Boy. Same goes for the Human Tourch or Nova. Even the Warriors were all in their upper teens (except speedball).

So instead, I'm blown away by the story. The art is solid, the coloring is well done, etc.

If I had gone by my initial reaction, I would be missing out on a great book.

However, this policy has it's bad side. Evenone issue of IC was too many and I kept waiting for Disassembled to pay off.

I'm still waiting, actually.

So anyway, yes, pre-judge, but judge what you see, not what you haven't.

[BlackKnight]

Please don't fell sorry. I like your posts.



Not what I was saying, per se. Explination follows.



I don't expect everyone to try everything. However, it's the parent in me being picky.

You can't say "I don't like spinach." if you haven't tried it. You CAN say 'I do not like the way spinach smells/looks and therefor I will not eat it". However, you don't KNOW that you don't like spinach, per se.

So too, you can say the concept sounds bad (which I agree with) and that the art looks bad (I disagree. Different, yes, but not bad per se), but you cannot say that the story itself is bad, as you haven't been able to judge it.

It's like Young Avengers. Conceptually it just struck me as dumb as hell. Marvel's never been much for 'kid" heroes. Spider-Man was in High School, but was Spider-Man, not Spider-Boy. Same goes for the Human Tourch or Nova. Even the Warriors were all in their upper teens (except speedball).

So instead, I'm blown away by the story. The art is solid, the coloring is well done, etc.

If I had gone by my initial reaction, I would be missing out on a great book.

However, this policy has it's bad side. Evenone issue of IC was too many and I kept waiting for Disassembled to pay off.

I'm still waiting, actually.

So anyway, yes, pre-judge, but judge what you see, not what you haven't.

I agee with you totally, not about what we like and don't like.
I like IC.. *shurgs*

However I think a lot of times people attack others for a difference of a word. Story versus concept, things like that. I just tired of that, as most of the time these people know that the guy is referre to what he has seen and just is not using the right word.

I really do get tired of people who split hairs to attack others. (not say this was you.) in fact I have gotten so tired that you will see disclaimers in my sig just for some of those people.

[Typo Lad]

I agee with you totally, not about what we like and don't like.

Hey, different strokes, and all that jaz.

At least we both agree that Dane Whitman kicks arse, right?

I like IC.. *shurgs*

I really, really wanted to. I really did, I promise. It was just so... over the top.

On the other hand, I liked Countdown and I am loving the "Dr. Light as a Bad***" in Titans, so at least good stories have come out of it. Heck, I even like Firestorm.


I really do get tired of people who split hairs to attack others. (not say this was you.) in fact I have gotten so tired that you will see disclaimers in my sig just for some of those people.

I have sigs disabled, heh.

I understand. I wasn't attacking him, just pointing out that the story doesn't really exist yet.

That said, let's all go get doughnuts.

[BlackKnight]

Hey, different strokes, and all that jaz.

At least we both agree that Dane Whitman kicks arse, right?
.
Yes he does, I just hope Hudlin does not screw him up even more then he already has.


I really, really wanted to. I really did, I promise. It was just so... over the top.

On the other hand, I liked Countdown and I am loving the "Dr. Light as a Bad***" in Titans, so at least good stories have come out of it. Heck, I even like Firestorm.
.

Like you said different strokes for different fokes, I love the Dr. Light thing, but hate Firestorm.


I have sigs disabled, heh.

I understand. I wasn't attacking him, just pointing out that the story doesn't really exist yet.

That said, let's all go get doughnuts.

Mmmm doughnuts! :D

[Typo Lad]

Yes he does, I just hope Hudlin does not screw him up even more then he already has.

Wait, I missed this.. BK's making a comeback?

[BlackKnight]

Wait, I missed this.. BK's making a comeback?

Well, it is supposed to be Nathan Garrett, according to the timeline we are in, but it looks like Dane Whitman is wearing the mordern armour, but is going to go get the ebony blade, witch Garrett was unworthy of so it has to be Dane, except Dane never wore the modern armour and carried the Ebony blade. It is one of the worsest continuum mess ups I have ever seen come out of marvel, and that does not include what the guy is doing to BP.

I just read it in the comic store and it made me want to scratch my eyes out.

[Typo Lad]

Well, it is supposed to be Nathan Garrett, according to the timeline we are in, but it looks like Dane Whitman is wearing the mordern armour, but is going to go get the ebony blade, witch Garrett was unworthy of so it has to be Dane, except Dane never wore the modern armour and carried the Ebony blade. It is one of the worsest continuum mess ups I have ever seen come out of marvel, and that does not include what the guy is doing to BP.

I just read it in the comic store and it made me want to scratch my eyes out.

Eh.

Hypertime, it's all true.

Oh wait, that's DC.

It's all the Scarlett Witch's fault!

[BlackKnight]

Eh.

Hypertime, it's all true.

Oh wait, that's DC.

It's all the Scarlett Witch's fault!

Marvel just needs to slap an ultimate in front of the Black Panther comic and save themselves the face loss when BP comes crashing down around them because of Hudlins writing, the man seems to have know idea that there is acutally history for this charater, and well BK, is just being totally destroyed in that book.

[Sharcque]

I just read Thunderbolts 6 & 7, and the New Warriors had a cameo in it, and it had a non-blue-skinned Namorita, Firestar & Justice. Zeb better explain this!!! Oh yeah --- it had Nova too, and he had wrists!!!

[Ant-Man]

I just read Thunderbolts 6 & 7, and the New Warriors had a cameo in it, and it had a non-blue-skinned Namorita, Firestar & Justice. Zeb better explain this!!! Oh yeah --- it had Nova too, and he had wrists!!!

Zeb Wells New Warriors, has nothing to do with Fabian Nicieza's New Thunderbolts, so there is no explination needed ;) .

[CoreyB]

I just read Thunderbolts 6 & 7, and the New Warriors had a cameo in it, and it had a non-blue-skinned Namorita, Firestar & Justice. Zeb better explain this!!! Oh yeah --- it had Nova too, and he had wrists!!!

They were in #7 too?

[Sharcque]

They were in #7 too?
My bad --- not #7, just #6. I just worded it that way b/c I had just read them both. I think Fabian included them b/c they're still near & dear to his heart.

[Typo Lad]

I just read Thunderbolts 6 & 7, and the New Warriors had a cameo in it, and it had a non-blue-skinned Namorita, Firestar & Justice. Zeb better explain this!!! Oh yeah --- it had Nova too, and he had wrists!!!

Apparantly she can shift back and forth from the blue look... which is actually a neat idea.

[Ryan K]

While I don't have high expectations of quality, I'm really looking forward to this series. I just can't wait to get more New Warriors books. And I'm surprised how much I like the art I've seen.

Stiil, I long for the day when they are just called The Warriors. I've been waiting for that day for over a decade.

[BlackKnight]

Zeb Wells New Warriors, has nothing to do with Fabian Nicieza's New Thunderbolts, so there is no explination needed ;) .

Your right, continuum really just does not matter anymore. every comic should just have its own continuum and ignore the rest of the MU. Oh, what that is what there doing mostly anyway. :rolleyes:

[Typo Lad]

Your right, continuum really just does not matter anymore. every comic should just have its own continuum and ignore the rest of the MU. Oh, what that is what there doing mostly anyway. :rolleyes:

The thing is.. I kind of wouldn't mind that, as long as the characters didn't cross polinate.

[BlackKnight]

The thing is.. I kind of wouldn't mind that, as long as the characters didn't cross polinate.

But there is the rub, ever writer will use wolverine and spiderman, because that is the only thing that sells according to marvel so you will have 40 different versions of the same charaters. :rolleyes:

[Moonstonelover]

i thought that in Nw vol 2 nita was back to skin color tones, but her powers were still evolving...

[CoreyB]

My bad --- not #7, just #6. I just worded it that way b/c I had just read them both. I think Fabian included them b/c they're still near & dear to his heart.

Oh okay. No problem.
He's said that he'd like to write them again in a few different interviews and on-line, and he's fondly looked back on the first two years of NEW WARRIORS at least once in interviews. I'd definitely say they are still near & dear to his heart.

i thought that in Nw vol 2 nita was back to skin color tones, but her powers were still evolving...

Check earlier in the thread.