How fast is Superman?

[Ekko]

Currently how fast is Superman and how fast is he compared to the Flash? Superman seems to have gone throuhg an unspoken power-up over the last few years. I know Wally is faster than Barry. And Superman was suppossed to be slightly slower than Barry Allen (the Silver Age Flash). So currently, how close is he to Wally (current Flash)? Is Flash much faster than Superman, or is Superman still supposed to be relatively close to the Flash.

[WatsonGlenn]

Currently how fast is Superman and how fast is he compared to the Flash? Superman seems to have gone throuhg an unspoken power-up over the last few years. I know Wally is faster than Barry. And Superman was suppossed to be slightly slower than Barry Allen (the Silver Age Flash). So currently, how close is he to Wally (current Flash)? Is Flash much faster than Superman, or is Superman still supposed to be relatively close to the Flash.

I think in short sprints and quick movements the Flash is much faster but in long, around the planet, kind of races they are very close with the Flash having a slight edge.

[BlueOrange25]

I think Superman is now written as being a tiny bit slower than the Flash. Their speeds are very similar, though the Flash has a slight edge.

[Forsaken_One]

The Flash moves at (if not faster than) the speed of light, and that's not just for sprints. I seriously don't think Superman is currently written as flying nearly that fast.

[Dussan]

Flash can move at the speed of light apparently. Superman cannot. In a sprint I think they are at the same speeds, and I think Flash has to build up that speed.

[TJEscobar]

Ok if Superman faster than the Flash then that is stupid because that would make Flash obselete, why would you even need Flash if Superman is faster. And Barry Allen was the most powerful Flash. He could run on clouds and travel through time.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Ok if Superman faster than the Flash then that is stupid because that would make Flash obselete, why would you even need Flash if Superman is faster. And Barry Allen was the most powerful Flash. He could run on clouds and travel through time.
Wally has now surpassed Barry in power in case you didn't know.

[Mainline]

Currently how fast is Superman and how fast is he compared to the Flash? Superman seems to have gone throuhg an unspoken power-up over the last few years. I know Wally is faster than Barry. And Superman was suppossed to be slightly slower than Barry Allen (the Silver Age Flash). So currently, how close is he to Wally (current Flash)? Is Flash much faster than Superman, or is Superman still supposed to be relatively close to the Flash.

Travelling speed, say, between galaxies, Superman has Faster Than Light capabilities... but that's by no means an operating speed (which is to say, that Superman could move, dodge, react, etc. at FTL). On Earth, even if Superman is potentially capable of such speed, he'd never use it because- unlike the Flashes- he doesn't have an aura that cancels out his affect on the environment. When he goes super-sonic, sonic booms follow. If Superman was to tear around Earth at lightspeeds, imagine the devestation that would follow in his wake!

http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/races.html

According to DC First: Flash/Superman (July 2002 - written by Geoff Johns), Wally would leave Superman in the dust and Superman is about Jay's speed. This is backed up by Flash v2 #209 (June 2004 - also written by Geoff Johns) where Wally loses Superman several times during the chase (but Superman's perseverance allows him to catch up whenever Wally stopped to search for Linda) and even outruns Superman's heat vision. This race also stresses Superman's reaction times are not on Wally's level even if he can force his body to move at comparable speeds.

(Incidentally, the most glaring contradiction between these two stories told by Johns is that in the first, Jay can speed steal Supes to a dead stop where as in 209 Wally says he can... but can't)

For my money, the three measures of absolute speed in the DCU are:
1. Speed Force barrier.
2. Time Travel barrier.
3. Instantaneous travel.

Given that failing to break #1 and bouncing off it can still yield you #2 (as in Max's case) #1 is the ultimate speed feat which only tiny few have crossed (much less returned from). Many can APPROACH the barrier (just about every DCU Speed Force speedster) but not break it like Wally. Given that Wally can do #1 and #2 at will and has done #3 with help, he should be unquestionably the fastest... what's harder, is determining Wally's operating speed (because in nearly all cases of #1/#2, they cross into the Speed Force Dimension and aren't running on Earth per se)...

This thread clocks Flash as being ludicrously fast:
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=19725

For story purposes, I expect he'll typically operate at far below that range.

[Mainline]

He [Barry] could run on clouds and travel through time.

Not in continunity.

[Rockman]

Maximum Speed: 60,000 mph (flight – atmosphere), 300,000,000 mph (flight – space, about half the speed of light), 30,000 mph (running)

From a few superman fansites(well they say it's official somwhat). Do you agree?

[Dark Soul # 7]

In a Zoom II/Flash fight they ran across every inch of the planet three times in one second and Superman didn´t even notice them as they passed him by.

[Mainline]

Maximum Speed: 60,000 mph (flight – atmosphere), 300,000,000 mph (flight – space, about half the speed of light), 30,000 mph (running)

From a few superman fansites(well they say it's official somwhat). Do you agree?

I'd say that's roughly what it's supposed to be but doesn't match his feats. 78 Mach might be his top atmospheric speed, but we never see him move like that in atmosphere... on the other hand, he HAS to be capable of FTL speeds to perform some of the things he's done, such as flying between galaxies (sub-light then he'd be gone for years) or taking Darkseid to the sun in seconds. Much like all speed, it's a plot device in nature... Supes is as slow or as fast as the situation demands to tell the story.

Edit: 30,000 mph is about 5,000 mph too fast. Escape velocity for this planet is around 25000 mph or 7 miles per second... so strictly speaking, if he's running at 30,000 mph he's actually flying "down" too keep his feet to the ground, which isn't so much running as running AND flying together.

[Mainline]

In a Zoom II/Flash fight they ran across every inch of the planet three times in one second and Superman didn´t even notice them as they passed him by.

Of course, that's when Wally's fully amped with the speed of several Flash-class speedsters and the Quick Family Speed Formula. In Flash 209 it said that Superman has to consiously ramp up his reaction times to even perceive things at that speed... since they were, literally, crossing the globe in less than a second, it would take Superman quite a relative while to notice the global damage and move into a speedster mindset. Even then, he'd be slower, but I wouldn't say their relative speeds were that much apart.

Basically what I'm saying, if Superman was already in a speedster mindset and moving, he'd probably at least see them, but wouldn't have been able to keep up by a long shot (if he couldn't even keep up with Wally in 209).

[Captain Smith]

I clearly remember Barry fighting cloud creatures and running from cloud to cloud in an early Flash issue. It was not an elsewhere story. So he could in what might count for continuity - unless you discount normal issues that mention an ability later not seen much.

Also, when has post crisis Supes demonstrated in space FTL? I don't remember that. PC Supes had galaxy to galaxy superspeed. He also could see galaxy to galaxy - however that worked.

[Rockman]

It look like he travel pretty far looking for lois during the infestation storyline.


http://img183.echo.cx/img183/6663/untitled47xj.th.jpg (http://img183.echo.cx/my.php?image=untitled47xj.jpg)

http://img183.echo.cx/img183/9685/untitled59ge.th.jpg (http://img183.echo.cx/my.php?image=untitled59ge.jpg)

http://img183.echo.cx/img183/8600/untitled68yt.th.jpg (http://img183.echo.cx/my.php?image=untitled68yt.jpg)

[Ekko]

Thanks for all the replies. From what I gather it seems like currently The Flash is much faster than Superman. Flash definitely should be faster, as that's his only thing and if he wasn't there'd be no purpose for him on the team.

[Mainline]

I clearly remember Barry fighting cloud creatures and running from cloud to cloud in an early Flash issue. It was not an elsewhere story. So he could in what might count for continuity - unless you discount normal issues that mention an ability later not seen much.

I understand what you're saying but you have to realize that Barry's entire career is by definition Pre-Crisis... since Crisis resulted in his death. Everything Pre-Crisis is not in continunity until retroactively confirmed Post-Crisis. So unless someone after Crisis talks about Barry's ability to run on clouds or remembers the time he stood on top of his after-images, it's not in continunity. Every major milestone of his life, however, has pretty much been covered in Vol2 Flash (either by Wally, Iris, or Jay) and in JLA, so it's not like he didn't do anything... but some of the PC feats are discounted just as PC Superman feats aren't in continunity.

[Mainline]

Good example of Superman wrecking things with his speed.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=5139

[SonnyC79]

the flash is quicker. Superman is fast but has to buid up to it I think.

[Rob H]

Wasn't the whole point behind "The Return of Barry Allen" to point out that Wally had to get over his fear and issues before he could surpass and move on from the shadow of Barry? If I remember correctly, he achieved this and is now just as fast as Barry Allen ever was. In which case, it'd be silly if Supes was faster than The Flash. That makes no sense (A bit like this post).

[Brian R]

Whether it makes sense or not, who knows, but Wally is much faster than Clark.

Although DC claims he is "nearly light speed", Wally routinely makes a mockery of that statement in his monthly book, performing feats which would require him to far exceed the speed of light.

In summary, Superman is probably at or near lightspeed, while Wally is much faster, anywhere from a hundred to about 30 billion times faster.

[Rob H]

Well let's put it this way, in less then a couple of seconds, Wally ran from Keystone City to Metropolis to some mine in Montana to Gotham City to New York to some mountain in the middle of the country to the middle of the Blue Pacific (where he takes a dive and stops an underwater bomb by setting up a series of vibrations to dismantle it) and back to Keystone City. Once again, all of this was in less than a couple of seconds. That's pretty damn fast if you ask me so yeah, Fever makes a good point. :p

The Flash #163.

[dancj]

Edit: 30,000 mph is about 5,000 mph too fast. Escape velocity for this planet is around 25000 mph or 7 miles per second... so strictly speaking, if he's running at 30,000 mph he's actually flying "down" too keep his feet to the ground, which isn't so much running as running AND flying together.

Don't you have to travel straight up at escape velocity to escape the gravitational pull of the planet? Running horizontally at that kind of speed would have some centrifugal force, but I doubt it would be enough to make him leave the ground.

[TheUnknownZombie]

I remember once reading Superman thinking that he could fly across the USA in two minutes. The Flash could do that in a fraction of a second.

And remember the JLA storyline where J'onn lost it and turned into Fernus? At one point Wally evacuated half a million people from a city to well outside the radius of the nuclear bomb that was about to hit in a matter of seconds. There's no way Superman could manage that.

Superman's fast, but when Wally pulls out all the stops, he leaves Big Blue standing.

[Mainline]

Don't you have to travel straight up at escape velocity to escape the gravitational pull of the planet? Running horizontally at that kind of speed would have some centrifugal force, but I doubt it would be enough to make him leave the ground.

Centripetal force and centrifugal force don't really apply here, he'd have to be running inside a giant hamster wheel or sphere... they throw things outwards, which is why you can suspend water in a bucket spun on a rope (the water is "thrown" outwards towards the bottom of the bucket and contained... it doesn't move inward towards the rope holder).

Regarding escape velocity, it's just that, once you hit it gravity will not bring you back down to the planet. "Up" is relative at that point, running horizontally is the same as launching "up" along a different vector. Truth is, he'd actually have to counter-fly a much lower speed than I stated earlier, because escape velocity is only enough just to escape, but there's a whole range of speed where he'd be travelling sub-orbital... where each step would be putting him into near-orbit arcs.

[Mainline]

I remember once reading Superman thinking that he could fly across the USA in two minutes. The Flash could do that in a fraction of a second.

Flash is undeniably faster, but Superman has some pretty significant speed feats. He's crossed about half the globe (from Metropolis to the middle east) from the time he heard a gunshot to before Lois hit the ground (they actually time it in the issue but I can't recall). But it should be noted he goes into space rather than travelling along the shorter atmospheric arc. So the 2 minutes thing might be right if he's staying in atmosphere.

[PatrickG]

Flash and Superman are both faster than light. Flash can travel through time though and Superman cannot.

Also, if Superman flies faster than Mach 1 within a populated area, he wrecks everything. Flash (thanks to the speed force) can pretty much travel at the speed of light without wrecking the ground due to friction or creating dangerous sonic booms.

[PatrickG]

BTW, back during the original Doomsday story, Superman and Doomsday were punching eachother faster than Mach 1 and it wrecked entire street blocks.

Flash routinely attacks his enemies at that speed.

[Smokey]

basically what he said, on earth superman has to hold back a good chunk of his speed, even though it's usually still enough

even when going all out, he isnt quite as quick as the flash, however, it isnt going to be flash leaving him in the dust either as some people imply, i know there was the whole "flash was moving and supes was a statue!" but, there were plot devices involved, usually, supes can keep up with flash, but never beat him, flash is faster

[Rockman]

BTW, back during the original Doomsday story, Superman and Doomsday were punching eachother faster than Mach 1 and it wrecked entire street blocks.

Flash routinely attacks his enemies at that speed.

A good Image of him fighting in super-speed

http://members.lycos.co.uk/shurukudemon/superscans/superman-vs-gunshin1.jpg

[jones]

There is a german story called Superman vs Mongul, where Mongul finds Warworld and Superman and Supergirl fights him and his warplanet. After Supergirl hast drilled a canal through the entire planet Warworld so that Superman could destroy its core, he lost his sister in space. So he started to calculate the most possible flypath of Supergirl and began to follow her. On his desperated search he got faster and faster and he realesed himself from all self-imposed limits in order to catch up with his sister. During this flight he broke through all known barriers:
barrier of lightspeed, barrier of time and finaly he broke out of the prison of eterntiy itself. At this point someone called spectre stopped him from getting further. He said that Superman flew faster than anyone or anything ever before and that he was going to cross the last line, that no living creature is allowed to pass. But superman wasnt in the mood to give up on his sister, so he tried to pass spectre by and failed. Next he tried to go directly through him and failed as well, so spectre said: Truly, you are strong my friend, but I am the force itself and even your strongest hits are just like the fall of snowflakes to me. When Superman realized that it was far beyond his capabilites to defeat this guy, in humbleness he asked him for to help him to find his sister and a blink later Supergirl materialized in his arms.
"You flew so far, so fast and did so much, but all you had to do was to ask for her."

This story ulitmatley answeres all question after "how fast is superman".
He got no limit. God himself had to send his supersuperhero spectre to prevent superman from crossing the last line without permission.

[Kara Zor El]

There is a german story called Superman vs Mongul, where Mongul finds Warworld and Superman and Supergirl fights him and his warplanet. After Supergirl hast drilled a canal through the entire planet Warworld so that Superman could destroy its core, he lost his sister in space. So he started to calculate the most possible flypath of Supergirl and began to follow her. On his desperated search he got faster and faster and he realesed himself from all self-imposed limits in order to catch up with his sister. During this flight he broke through all known barriers:
barrier of lightspeed, barrier of time and finaly he broke out of the prison of eterntiy itself. At this point someone called spectre stopped him from getting further. He said that Superman flew faster than anyone or anything ever before and that he was going to cross the last line, that no living creature is allowed to pass. But superman wasnt in the mood to give up on his sister, so he tried to pass spectre by and failed. Next he tried to go directly through him and failed as well, so spectre said: Truly, you are strong my friend, but I am the force itself and even your strongest hits are just like the fall of snowflakes to me. When Superman realized that it was far beyond his capabilites to defeat this guy, in humbleness he asked him for to help him to find his sister and a blink later Supergirl materialized in his arms.
"You flew so far, so fast and did so much, but all you had to do was to ask for her."

This story ulitmatley answeres all question after "how fast is superman".
He got no limit. God himself had to send his supersuperhero spectre to prevent superman from crossing the last line without permission.

Isn't that pre-crisis though? It must be. so it doesn't count with this modern age Superman.

Edit : - German story?

[Trademark]

Sounds like a German translation of this DC Comics Presents story:

http://comicsatemybrain.blogspot.com/2006/01/dc-comics-presents-s-28-29-good.html

[jones]

Sounds like a German translation of this DC Comics Presents story:

http://comicsatemybrain.blogspot.com/2006/01/dc-comics-presents-s-28-29-good.html

Yeah, exactly, thats it. I recognize the pictures. Cool :D
I read it when I was a child, looooong time ago.

[Zanku]

lightspeed+ in space. Near that in the atmosphere

[Kaos]

superman and wonderman are too fast, they shouldnt be even close to flash

[CaptainAwesome]

How fast is Superman?


What ever happened to "faster than a speeding bullet?"

[Kara Zor El]

Sounds like a German translation of this DC Comics Presents story:

http://comicsatemybrain.blogspot.com/2006/01/dc-comics-presents-s-28-29-good.html
Then it doesn't count because it is a 1980 story and that Superman was as most of us know, a lot bloody faster.

[Evil Supergirl]

Well the other day I saw a Ep with Superman and Flash racing...so Im guessing hes as fast as flash

[Zanku]

Well the other day I saw a Ep with Superman and Flash racing...so Im guessing hes as fast as flash


That was an ep of Superman the animated series. Animated feats dont count for comic book characters.


Flash is faster than superman, much faster when hes in his "i evacuate cities in seconds mode" but besides those uber moments, I think supes could atleast keep up with his movements.

[CaptainAwesome]

That was an ep of Superman the animated series. Animated feats dont count for comic book characters.


Flash is faster than superman, much faster when hes in his "i evacuate cities in seconds mode" but besides those uber moments, I think supes could atleast keep up with his movements.
The thing is, Flash has control over all speed while Superman doesnt. Flash is the fastest man alive because he can tap into the speed force and take other people's speed. Flash can also vibrate through things when Supes would have to either go around or bust through. That has to cost him some time when he is racing against the flash.

[Torchbot]

Superman is almost capable of light speed. He's not much slower. But as others have pointed out, Supes can't manipulate speed like the Flashes can, and he has to be more careful about his speed while on Earth so that he doesn't blow out windows with sonic booms and the like.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Flash can move at the speed of light apparently. Superman cannot. In a sprint I think they are at the same speeds, and I think Flash has to build up that speed.

Superman is definitely FTL. When Luthor was elected President, he got to one of the moons of Jupiter in about 4 minutes (and split it in two, BTW).

[Dr. J]

In Superman #126 Superman got amnesia and was walking through the Superman Museum to refresh his memory. The display on super-speed showed him travelling 1000 times faster than the speed of light :eek:

[666MasterOfPuppets]

In Superman #126 Superman got amnesia and was walking through the Superman Museum to refresh his memory. The display on super-speed showed him travelling 1000 times faster than the speed of light :eek:

WHOA!

That's a cool piece of info. Thanx.

[The Phenomenol]

Post-Crisis Superman's tops is 99% lightspeed! Proven when he took 8 minutes to reach the Sun and he had everythinh on the line in OWAW!!!

[bugmenot]

Post-Crisis Superman's tops is 99% lightspeed! Proven when he took 8 minutes to reach the Sun and he had everythinh on the line in OWAW!!!
Which of course explains why he was much faster than light speed in Action Comics #775, making it from the earth to that moon in FTL time.

[pauwoo]

Not in continunity.

All of Barry's stories are in continuity, the only parts that have been retconned where the formation of the Justice League.

Barry is faster than wally, no disappearing into the speed force for Barry when he went faster than light.

oh and jay was faster than barry just not over a long distance.

Wally does not have full molecular control, as Barry did, in terms of raw power wally may be more powerful, but barry was more creative with his speed.

[The Phenomenol]

Which of course explains why he was much faster than light speed in Action Comics #775, making it from the earth to that moon in FTL time.

Nope, Superman's top speed is 99% lightspeed DC states this and it took him 8 minutes to get to the sun, that is how much time it takes for light to reach the sun. Superman can not go any faster the is not the Flash.

[bugmenot]

DC's stated a lot of things. I think the "99% of light speed" quote within the comics was made by Impulse. But Joe Kelly, Marv Wolfman, Mark Verheiden, etc. have had Supes do FTL things in post-Crisis. And who knows what the post-IC Superman is capable of...

[Zanku]

Nope, Superman's top speed is 99% lightspeed DC states this and it took him 8 minutes to get to the sun, that is how much time it takes for light to reach the sun. Superman can not go any faster the is not the Flash.


Which is contradicted by him going FTL to get to the sun and back in mere seconds with wonder woman. Which is contradicted by the fact of him going FTL to get to saturn in 4 minutes. Or him going from one end of the solar system to the other in moments. Or when he went to the sun and back in one minute when fighting the elite? So, despite how many times you try to claim otherwise, superman is indeed faster than light.

I'm also curious, where did an official DC spokesman state supermans speed was 99% the speed of light? Because, the only person I know who said that is impulse when they raced.

In conclusion: Yes, superman is faster than light. Doesn't mean he's faster than the flash, but he is faster than light.

[PatrickG]

Basically for any story involving outerspace to work without a conceit, we have to accept that physics are different in the DCU.

Superman can and has flown to distant, inhabited planets. That requires travel at many times lightspeed.

And Flash can travel faster... and yet, cannot fly inexplicably despite travelling many times faster than it would take to defy gravity.

Just accept it and assume that some new physics exists in the DCU that disproves Newton and Einstein and allows for rapid interstellar travel without wormholes or hyperspace. And assume that you have to go much faster than light to time travel... and that there are psychic/psychological elements involved in time travel in addition to speed.

[Silas Burr]

Here's what I find a little quirky. When Superman and Wally last raced Wally was faster but they were very close. Now obviously Flash needs to be faster because he's billed as "the fastest man alive". But Superman can fly faster than he can run I hear. So if he can run virtually as fast as the Flash, then he actually is much faster overall. At least if Flash only uses default speed.

[The Phenomenol]

Which is contradicted by him going FTL to get to the sun and back in mere seconds with wonder woman. Which is contradicted by the fact of him going FTL to get to saturn in 4 minutes. Or him going from one end of the solar system to the other in moments. Or when he went to the sun and back in one minute when fighting the elite? So, despite how many times you try to claim otherwise, superman is indeed faster than light.

No he is not, I have those comics he never reached the sun when he was against wonder woman he was out in space. Also the Saturn thing their was no time given for that it states that he left 4 minutes after Luthor's speech. He never goes to the sun in a minute! DC states that Supes top speed is 99%lightspeed.

I'm also curious, where did an official DC spokesman state supermans speed was 99% the speed of light? Because, the only person I know who said that is impulse when they raced.

In conclusion: Yes, superman is faster than light. Doesn't mean he's faster than the flash, but he is faster than light.

Superman is NOT faster than light, he does not even go lightspeed in the earth's atmosphere. I can post scans of Superman trying to ESCAPE a black hole with speed and fails.

[Zanku]

No he is not, I have those comics he never reached the sun when he was against wonder woman he was out in space.

Yeah, they did reach the sun. The art clearly shows it, so if you have the comic you need to give it another look.


Also the Saturn thing their was no time given for that it states that he left 4 minutes after Luthor's speech.

No time given? It shows them announce Luthor as president, then it shows him near saturn and it says "4 minutes later" thats a pretty clear time.


He never goes to the sun in a minute! DC states that Supes top speed is 99%lightspeed.

Yes he does, it was in the final issue of JLA elite. He goes to sundip and they had to hold off the elite for a minute till he got back, but they ended up not needing him anyways. Theres also the fact that superman and WW went to the sun and back in mere moments. Also, link me up to where DC says he is 99% lightspeed ok?



Superman is NOT faster than light, he does not even go lightspeed in the earth's atmosphere. I can post scans of Superman trying to ESCAPE a black hole with speed and fails.

He's gone lightspeed a couple times on earth. In an issue where trains with the flash he goes lightspeed twice. You posting a scan of him failing to escape the pull of a black hole doesnt change it. I can post scans of him escaping the pull of a black hole created by alien tech, so? Superman has the feats to show he is lightspeed, so again it brings me back to the point that no matter how many times you say it, it isn't true.

[The Phenomenol]

Yeah, they did reach the sun. The art clearly shows it, so if you have the comic you need to give it another look.

No, Superman did NOT reach the Sun if that was the case he would have been able to throw WonderWoman in their.

No time given? It shows them announce Luthor as president, then it shows him near saturn and it says "4 minutes later" thats a pretty clear time.

No it says "4 minutes after Luthors announcement." Superman then takes off their is nothing stating how fast he went.

Yes he does, it was in the final issue of JLA elite. He goes to sundip and they had to hold off the elite for a minute till he got back, but they ended up not needing him anyways. Theres also the fact that superman and WW went to the sun and back in mere moments. Also, link me up to where DC says he is 99% lightspeed ok?

Post-Crisis Superman's speed

http://www.fanzing.com/mag/fanzing43/feature2.shtml


He's gone lightspeed a couple times on earth. In an issue where trains with the flash he goes lightspeed twice. You posting a scan of him failing to escape the pull of a black hole doesnt change it. I can post scans of him escaping the pull of a black hole created by alien tech, so? Superman has the feats to show he is lightspeed, so again it brings me back to the point that no matter how many times you say it, it isn't true.

Rubbish, Flash was training supes in the desert and Supes only manage to go around four times the speed of sound on foot. He's NOWHERE near light speed on foot.

Sueps 99% light speed. I don't care what any supes fan says he's not faster than the Flash.

[Ruseri]

All of Barry's stories are in continuity, the only parts that have been retconned where the formation of the Justice League.

Barry is faster than wally, no disappearing into the speed force for Barry when he went faster than light.

oh and jay was faster than barry just not over a long distance.

Wally does not have full molecular control, as Barry did, in terms of raw power wally may be more powerful, but barry was more creative with his speed.

Wally is much faster than Barry. He has said this on numerous occasions. i'd rather not have to scan the pages of the comics i own in which he says it, but it's true. Barry never even tapped into the speed force to a point where he could control speed in general. Flash can basically manipulate speed how he chooses, and move at FTL speeds.

also, Superman cannot move faster than light... maybe somewhere close, but i doubt even that. if it has happened, i'm sure it was either just the writers' interpretation or simple mistake in continuity. sure, he makes sonic booms oftem enough, but that only requires moving faster than sound, which is nowhere NEAR the speed of light... not even close.

[kane]

Superman was shown to be several times faster than light. There are feats for this. So this 99 % crap is not true. In the fight with WW he went to the sun and back in less than two minutes. He traveled with Kyle to pluto during a short conversation. etc.

[PatrickG]

Bottom line, anyone at lightspeed should be everywhere at once. But this isn't true in the DCU.

Superman can travel at many times the speed of light. There's evidence from almost every era of the character to support this.

And Wally is much, much faster. He once ran so fast he wound up on Krypton, pre-explosion. He can access other timelines. He can steal, lend and borrow speed.

Barry outraced a tachyon. And Wally is even faster. And Bart is even faster still.

But Superman can escape the event horizon of a black hole. He can travel around the world in fractions of a second. He can travel to distant solar systems and even galaxies in hours.

And the Flash is still many times faster.

[Zanku]

No, Superman did NOT reach the Sun if that was the case he would have been able to throw WonderWoman in their.

yes they did:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/Zanku_2006/sun.jpg



No it says "4 minutes after Luthors announcement." Superman then takes off their is nothing stating how fast he went.

But we know how fast light is, and how far saturn is. It takes light longer to get there than supes


Post-Crisis Superman's speed

http://www.fanzing.com/mag/fanzing43/feature2.shtml

yeah..that site isn't dc. plus, theres contradictions




also, Superman cannot move faster than light... maybe somewhere close, but i doubt even that. if it has happened, i'm sure it was either just the writers' interpretation or simple mistake in continuity. sure, he makes sonic booms oftem enough, but that only requires moving faster than sound, which is nowhere NEAR the speed of light... not even close.

Except it does happen. In the issue when he trains with flash it clocks his speed at 184,000 mps, then he exceeds that. He goes LS twice in the issue, the first time he strains, the second time he doesnt.

[The Phenomenol]

yes they did:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/Zanku_2006/sun.jpg




But we know how fast light is, and how far saturn is. It takes light longer to get there than supes



yeah..that site isn't dc. plus, theres contradictions





Except it does happen. In the issue when he trains with flash it clocks his speed at 184,000 mps, then he exceeds that. He goes LS twice in the issue, the first time he strains, the second time he doesnt.

That is not at the sun? No speed is even given, and if Superman was at the sun he would have been able to throw wonder woman in their, in fact we should not even See Supes or Wonder Woman.

I will go by waht Supes and Impulse stated instead of some scans with no speed given. Supes top speed is 99% lightpseed.

[Rik Levins]

Post-Crisis Superman's speed

http://www.fanzing.com/mag/fanzing43/feature2.shtml

Sueps 99% light speed. I don't care what any supes fan says...

I'm a little confused, Phenomen. You argue that Superman is not faster than light, but as proof you link to an article which states:

...He remained at the power-level introduced in Man Of Steel #30: He could fly at the speed of light -or faster...

and

...In Superman #108,...in order to save Mope, who was put in a rocket traveling at hyperspace to Krypton by the tribunal...[he] follows the rocket at a same speed (see page 19), but could not save him.

Am I missing something here..?

[The Phenomenol]

I'm a little confused, Phenomen. You argue that Superman is not faster than light, but as proof you link to an article which states:

...He remained at the power-level introduced in Man Of Steel #30: He could fly at the speed of light -or faster...

and

...In Superman #108,...in order to save Mope, who was put in a rocket traveling at hyperspace to Krypton by the tribunal...[he] follows the rocket at a same speed (see page 19), but could not save him.

Am I missing something here..?

Go actually read what Post Crisis Abilities are.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

In regard to the Superman/Wonder Woman fight, I believe the writer came forward to admit the artist made a mistake.

That fight didn´t go anywhere near the sun, at best they ended somewhere near Venus.

[mswood]

The Phenomenol

ctually you need to reread the post.

The highlighted limits are of his abilities right after the reboot into Post Crisis universe.

The rest of the sarticle goes into some moderate level of breaking down how and why Superman's powers and abilities have increased, really increased, went down again, went up again, went down again . But it does show that since the original reboot, Superman is far stronger, far faster and far more invulnerable then the highlighted limits that Byrne had for the character.


Do I wish personally that they kept his max level at those limits Byrne created (yes, except I never liked him wearing a mask in space). But it is quite clear in many issues that Supes can travel to other worlds, other star systems, to the source wall, ect.

All of these things at less then lightspeed would take years, decades, centuries, ect.

[The Phenomenol]

Show me where Superman to this day is going FTL speeds?

He doe not...

I will go by what Supes and Impulse has stated instead of some comics with no Speed given.

[mswood]

Yeah teh writer of WW only intended the battle to go to one of the planets eitehr Venus or Mercury, but I don't think he was specific in his notes to the artist. The artist did draw them as going to close to the surface of the sun. And even with the just going to the closest planet, the span of the entire battle was exceedingly fast and might still show him exceeding lightspeed.

Though clearly in many other comics DC does indeed show Superman getting to and from other planets out of our star system.

[mswood]

Personally, DC needs to do the Marvel universe thing.

Which is have Supes able to fly at near the speed of light, but that to go faster he must go into hyperspace and use that as a rationale for any off world ventures.

That way everyone gets their cake and eats it to.

Supes can't compete agains't the Flash on Earth or any other celestial body. But in the depths of Space superman can achieve access to a faster form of travel to get him into space adventures for the writers to use.

I mean hell in Infinte Crisis Superboy even refers to lightspeed as the speed he will be using to get from Earth to Oa (the center of the universe) to ram the planet and destroy this reality. When in fact that would be billions upon billions of times faster tehn the speed of light.

But as far as current feats, well unforunately there aren't current feats because Superman has been out of commision. We will really have to wait most likely for the next story where we see him going far off world., to see if the most recent mini reboot has lowered his abilities once more.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

One could argue that Superman is so powerfull that he can channel enough sun power to create singularities in space and thus navigate through hyperspace.

Bam!
Problem solved regarding the issue of visiting other planets.

Of course that would raise the problem of Superman having a brand new power which I really don´t look forward to.

Soul vision was the last straw.

[Zanku]

That is not at the sun?

Really? So, that big glowing yellow ball in the background, please enlighten me, what is that exactly?


No speed is even given, and if Superman was at the sun he would have been able to throw wonder woman in their, in fact we should not even See Supes or Wonder Woman.

You just consistently show your lack of knowledge about any of these comics. They go from the earth to the sun, back, then once they get to earth, have a small skirmish, all in around 2 minutes. The time is stated by Max Lord

Even if the artist meant it to be venus,which I cant figure out how you mistakenly draw the sun, venus is still 25 million miles from earth, so it is still a lightspeed feat so theres really no way around it.


I will go by waht Supes and Impulse stated instead of some scans with no speed given. Supes top speed is 99% lightpseed.


He never said his top speed was 99% the speed of light, he said thats what supes was going, big difference. You can go by what impulse states, thats fine. I'm going by the feats.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Post-Crisis Superman's tops is 99% lightspeed! Proven when he took 8 minutes to reach the Sun and he had everythinh on the line in OWAW!!!

Then, as usual, the writers never have an agreement on Supes' power levels. They write them depending on their stories.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

yes they did:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/Zanku_2006/sun.jpg



Where did you get this scan?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Show me where Superman to this day is going FTL speeds?

He doe not...

I will go by what Supes and Impulse has stated instead of some comics with no Speed given.

In the final issue of the Superman/Batman arc in which Supergirl (ugh) returns.

He takes Darkseid to the Source Wall itself.

[Zanku]

Where did you get this scan?


Wonder Woman #219

[The Phenomenol]

Really? So, that big glowing yellow ball in the background, please enlighten me, what is that exactly?You just consistently show your lack of knowledge about any of these comics. They go from the earth to the sun, back, then once they get to earth, have a small skirmish, all in around 2 minutes. The time is stated by Max Lord Even if the artist meant it to be venus,which I cant figure out how you mistakenly draw the sun, venus is still 25 million miles from earth, so it is still a lightspeed feat so theres really no way around it.He never said his top speed was 99% the speed of light, he said thats what supes was going, big difference. You can go by what impulse states, thats fine. I'm going by the feats.

Your scan does not even say they are at the sun and if Superman was anywhere near the sun he would have already thrown WW in their. Show me in the scan where it states FTL? Otherwise you are just making assumptions.

I can post a scan from JLA where supes states that he is NOT fast enough to outfly a Zeta Beam! I still maintain Supes top speed is 99% lightspeed. He is not the flash.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Wonder Woman #219

Thank you. Damn, my memory is bad.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Your scan does not even say they are at the sun and if Superman was anywhere near the sun he would have already thrown WW in their. Show me in the scan where it states FTL? Otherwise you are just making assumptions.

I can post a scan from JLA where supes states that he is NOT fast enough to outfly a Zeta Beam! I still maintain Supes top speed is 99% lightspeed. He is not the flash.

Superman would never throw WW into the sun. Even with the problems they have, they had/have a friendship.

[Eyeswithoutaface]

errr. Superman would throw Wonder Woman into the sun if he thought she was Doomsday (which is exactly what's going on in this story iirc). It's pretty clear even from these scans that Diana is putting up a quite a fight in order to prevent this from happening to her.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

errr. Superman would throw Wonder Woman into the sun if he thought she was Doomsday (which is exactly what's going on in this story iirc). It's pretty clear even from these scans that Diana is putting up a quite a fight in order to prevent this from happening to her.

And my goddamn memory keeps failing me. Thankfully, I have my fellow posters always ready to jump in and refresh my memory.

Indeed, if he thought she was Doomsday, he would throw her into the sun. But that's the only way it could happen.

[dancj]

Your scan does not even say they are at the sun

Yeah - they were obviously at that OTHER giant ball of fire in our solar system

[Slortex]

In the final issue of the Superman/Batman arc in which Supergirl (ugh) returns.

He takes Darkseid to the Source Wall itself.

he used a boom tube to get there in that arc.

[Zanku]

Your scan does not even say they are at the sun and if Superman was anywhere near the sun he would have already thrown WW in their. Show me in the scan where it states FTL? Otherwise you are just making assumptions.

Now you're just throwing common sense out the door. My scan doesnt need to say its the sun no more than it needs to say supermans costume has blue in it, it's obvious. Your defense is seriously that its not the sun because Superman didnt throw her into it? You're saying you fully believe DC would have Superman murder Wonder Woman? Right? He didnt even think it was WW, he thought it was Doomsday.

However, in the scan I posted you can clearly see why no sun tossing occured either way..see that green little ring she pulls out? guess what its made of?

It doesn't need to say FTL, we are given a time of around 2 minutes for him to fly to the sun, back, and still have small skirmish on Earth. The sun is 93 million miles away, going there and back in 1 minute is well beyond the speed of light, look it up.


I can post a scan from JLA where supes states that he is NOT fast enough to outfly a Zeta Beam! I still maintain Supes top speed is 99% lightspeed. He is not the flash.

Isnt the Zeta Beam what Adam Strange uses for interstellar travel? So the beam would be FTL as well. Didnt he use it to travel to Rann? Which is much farther away than the sun. Him failing to outfly it really proves nothing.

[BigBoss]

is bought as fast as the flash.

[Agentum]

Yeah - they were obviously at that OTHER giant ball of fire in our solar system
Is that possible?

And this discussion is pointless, Superman is as fast or slow as needed in the story.
If he used his powers more he would probably run/fly around in hyperspeed and stopp every crime.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

he used a boom tube to get there in that arc.

Is that right? I'll have to recheck that issue...

[Zanku]

Yeah he used a boomtube to get to the source wall, since its in the center of the universe i believe.

However, he still took darkseid to the sun in seconds.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Yeah he used a boomtube to get to the source wall, since its in the center of the universe i believe.

However, he still took darkseid to the sun in seconds.

Hmmm... I seem to remember that he went through some sort of wormhole tunnel or something. And that can only mean, in the DCU, a boomtube.

However, I don't remember seeing any motherbox with Big Blue.

And isn't the Source Wall located at the end of the universe?

[Agentum]

End of universe? is there a end in DCU, if so what is outside of the universe?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

End of universe? is there a end in DCU, if so what is outside of the universe?

IIRC, that's what Darkseid wants to find out. He thinks the answer to The Anti-Life Equation is there. Or something among those lines.

[Kara Zor El]

End of universe? is there a end in DCU, if so what is outside of the universe?

Lots of other universes. Not parallels but seperates.