A planet-full of dead "Supermen"

[west3man]

Is anyone else occasionally struck by the mild-irony of the fact that an entire race of people COULD have been "super" (and, for that matter, still alive) if only they'd been in different type of solar system (or exposed to the right solar energy)?

They may never have known how powerful and near-immortal they all would've been.

[The Adventurer]

No see if their sun had been Yellow to begin with more then likly they would have never got the nack for being Yellow Solor Powered Supermen. It was their development under a Red Sun that causes the Yellow Powered abilities.


Now had they not been as Xenophobic as they were they could have conquered the universe.

[west3man]

No see if their sun had been Yellow to begin with more then likly they would have never got the nack for being Yellow Solor Powered Supermen. It was their development under a Red Sun that causes the Yellow Powered abilities. What makes you say so?

I mean, we're under a "yellow" sun, but that doesn't mean our bodies are made to absorb other forms of radiation.

(Putting aside the somewhat silly notion that they can absorb solar radiation of almost all varieties EXCEPT that of the main star in their system.)


Now had they not been as Xenophobic as they were they could have conquered the universe. I thougth they might've retconned that back out.

I re-read some of the first Superman/Batman arc and when Kal-El was sent to Earth, some of the things he *thinks* he remembers seeing are highly reflective of the scenes from BIRTHRIGHT.

[The Adventurer]

What makes you say so?

I mean, we're under a "yellow" sun, but that doesn't mean our bodies are made to absorb other forms of radiation.

(Putting aside the somewhat silly notion that they can absorb solar radiation of almost all varieties EXCEPT that of the main star in their system.)


It's all Comic Book logic, but Kryptonians evolved under a Red Sun, they're used to it's rays and radiation wave length naturaly because of always living under it. At some point in their development cycle a genetic anomoly cropped up where when bombarded by Yellow wavelengths for extended periods of time it cause cellure mutations for abilities like Superstrength, Wingless Flight, and Invulnerability. Had the entire race developed under a Yellow sun they're bodies would have be come acustumed to it's rays at an early stage of development and the genetic mutuation would never have developed as the the Red Wavelengths of light wouldn't have been present to cause the effect in their cellure structure.

It's all "Butterflies in Asia Cause Tornados in Kansas". You can't change something like the Sun's Wavelengths and expect everything to be the same except that. And in comics, Kryptons uniqueness stems from it being under a Red Sun, so it can be infered that the Power Gains by Yellow Suns must be conected to the Red Sun life style of your average Kryptonian.


Wow, I am such a geek.

[davids]

it was told he came from a planet of superman! Every one had those early level of super powers.

[west3man]

It's all Comic Book logic, but Kryptonians evolved under a Red Sun, they're used to it's rays and radiation wave length naturaly because of always living under it. At some point in their development cycle a genetic anomoly cropped up where when bombarded by Yellow wavelengths for extended periods of time it cause cellure mutations for abilities like Superstrength, Wingless Flight, and Invulnerability. Had the entire race developed under a Yellow sun they're bodies would have be come acustumed to it's rays at an early stage of development and the genetic mutuation would never have developed as the the Red Wavelengths of light wouldn't have been present to cause the effect in their cellure structure.

It seems a bit odd for them ALL to "mutate" the same way when exposed to basically every other wavelength of solar radiation. I'd guess that instead of their cells mutating, they're just activating a certain biological potential when they receive the appropriate solar input... then ceasing when that input is exhausted or red solar radiation is supplied.

Still, that's odd as hell.

All they needed to do was leave their planet and they not just be alive, but they'd be damn-near invulnerable.

It's all "Butterflies in Asia Cause Tornados in Kansas". You can't change something like the Sun's Wavelengths and expect everything to be the same except that. And in comics, Kryptons uniqueness stems from it being under a Red Sun, so it can be infered that the Power Gains by Yellow Suns must be conected to the Red Sun life style of your average Kryptonian.


Wow, I am such a geek. That's some weak logic, considering that WE don't gain any particular powers by being exposed to other types of radiation.

We just get cancer.

[Forsaken_One]

Now had they not been as Xenophobic as they were they could have conquered the universe.
As a humanist and xenophobe myself (I'm very much against alien races; not Earth born, but definintly extraterrestrial) I just have to say that should I discover humans all gain superpowers though a simple event or somesuch I'd lead the charge in destroying all alien cultures we could come across, moving their planets into the sun or nuking the hell out of it or something like that. I wouldn't wait on our tiny little rock and hope that aliens don't find a way to destroy the planet (which they probably would) or us (which is possible), I'd go out, encourage colinization onto other planets to spread out the species, and destroy all intelligent life on those planets we moved to. And maybe the nearby ones. :)

[Keith_Martineau]

It makes mild scientific sense that the Kryptonian race evolved over millions of years under a sun that was first yellow, and slowly became red as it's lifespan grew nearer and nearer to the end.
So that when a Kryptonian like Kal-El was then sent to Earth, under a yellow sun, a younger, much more powerful sun, that it was have supercharging effects on him.
Well, it makes mild scientific comic book sense anyway.
Still doesn't explain why Kara and Krypto were effected the same way, but Kandor and it's citizens can't leave because they'll be poisoned.

[lonewolf23k]

Is anyone else occasionally struck by the mild-irony of the fact that an entire race of people COULD have been "super" (and, for that matter, still alive) if only they'd been in different type of solar system (or exposed to the right solar energy)?

They may never have known how powerful and near-immortal they all would've been.

Well, as Siegel and Shuster first conceived the Kryptonian people, they didn't even need to be under a Yellow Sun: the Kryptonians were near-invulnerable and super-strong on their own homeworld.

[Forsaken_One]

It makes mild scientific sense that the Kryptonian race evolved over millions of years under a sun that was first yellow, and slowly became red as it's lifespan grew nearer and nearer to the end.
So that when a Kryptonian like Kal-El was then sent to Earth, under a yellow sun, a younger, much more powerful sun, that it was have supercharging effects on him.
Well, it makes mild scientific comic book sense anyway.
Still doesn't explain why Kara and Krypto were effected the same way, but Kandor and it's citizens can't leave because they'll be poisoned.
I... don't think Kandor even exists post-Crisis. Does it?

[Expletive Deleted]

That's some weak logic, considering that WE don't gain any particular powers by being exposed to other types of radiation.

We just get cancer.Gaining powers? Of course not. That's comic book logic. We are the products of our environment, though.

Adventurer makes a good point. If you change one little thing, the whole system could turn out differently. If Krypton had a yellow sun all along, they might not have evolved yellow sun powers.

If some trivial thing was changed at the dawn of time for our Earth (the composition of our atmosphere, the level of background radiation, etc) and life still managed to take root, I'd be willing to bet that we wouldn't turn out exactly as we have.

[west3man]

Gaining powers? Of course not. That's comic book logic. We are the products of our environment, though. "We" also covers regular human-beings in the DCU.

Being exposed to x for y-length of time does not imply or suggest that subsequent exposure to a will result in b.

Even if for comic books, that doesn't add up.

[Glaucon]

Evolutionary conditioning would have to necesitate a need for 'super powers' in response to environmental factors. Elephants are big to knock over trees for food and because lions are big. Similarly, for Kryptonians to receive super strength from their actual star they would need a reason to develop super strength. But then again, genetic anomolies sometimes occur as by-products for something else. There is no reason why Western Europeans have blue-eyes, eyes only go blue as a by-product to metabolisms suited to cold temperatures.
I think it is an interesting thing to consider!

[Forsaken_One]

Even if for comic books, that doesn't add up.
Neither does a "speed force" that lets people run at near lightspeed without any effects on them or the enviornment around them. Neither does flying without any support. Neither does most races being bipedal beings, mostly humans with "parts" stuck on; the Raanians are basically humans, even able to interbreed, while the Thanagarians are humans with wings (do they even have wings? They might be metal), the Tamaranians are humans with golden skin and powers, the Kryptonians are humans who gain powers when they're elsewhere, more than half the offworld members of the Legion are Humans plus, and probably around half of the Green Lantern Corps are at least bipedal, often very human looking (two eyes, nose, mouth, opposable thumb, two arms, etc.). It seems like asking "how can this make scientific sense?" in this kind of universe is akin to asking how Warp Drive or Replicators can work in the Star Trek universe or why fighters bank and how Hyperspace works in the Star Wars universe; simply put they can't ever work. So accept it or don't bother buying the media, because you're never going to get a satisfactory explenation.

[PatrickG]

Kandor does exist and the buildings themselves are Kryptonian.

Lots of aliens in it... Some who get powers under a yellow sun. No evidence of real Kryptonians however.

It's in a bit of continuity flux right now. A few years ago, it was recovered from the space wizard Tolos but more recently, it was said that it was recovered from Brainiac.

[sikkbones]

isn't that new guy that gave superman a beating from kandor?

[west3man]

So accept it or don't bother buying the media, because you're never going to get a satisfactory explenation.
That's all well and good, but if I said bears in the DCU could suddenly fly because they usually sleep through the Winter, but one time they didn't... You'd say that's ridiculous. Somebody would, anyway.

Why? Because clearly there must be a balance between the sensible and the sensational. These two opposing forces are what allow our disbelief to be suspended.

That's what we have here.

Extra points for trying to paint it like I needed every "i" dotted and "t" crossed, but it's not like that. I just want these things to make *some sense.*

[Forsaken_One]

That's all well and good, but if I said bears in the DCU could suddenly fly because they usually sleep through the Winter, but one time they didn't... You'd say that's ridiculous. Somebody would, anyway.

Why? Because clearly there must be a balance between the sensible and the sensational. These two opposing forces are what allow our disbelief to be suspended.

That's what we have here.

Extra points for trying to paint it like I needed every "i" dotted and "t" crossed, but it's not like that. I just want these things to make *some sense.*
No, I think it needs consistancy, not realism, for us to suspend our disbelief. If a world was created in which, among other things, bears flew around with no explenation beyond hybernation then that'd be fine so long as it was consistant. It wouldn't need any explenation beyond that, it wouldn't need a psedo-scientific backing or anything like that, they'd just need to make it so that bears always flew around (and, using your explenation, other animals that hybernate; consistancy and all that). So Superman flies and has super strength and x-ray vision and laser eyes and enhanced senses because of the Sun. This has been consistant in every single post-Crisis storyline and most of the Silver Age stuff as well; it doesn't need any more explenation, it's simply the accepted norm of the DC universe.

And to be honest that bit about the Humans Plus was my ranting about it. I really get annoyed that science fiction rarely shows aliens as, well, alien. Especially visual science fiction, but also in their thought process. But I explained it in such detail because you're asking for a scientific reason for a plot point in a fictional universe. It seems to me you may as well be asking the scientific reasoning behind the Simpsons having yellow skin.

[west3man]

No, I think it needs consistancy, not realism, for us to suspend our disbelief.
I didn't see the word "realism" anywhere in my post.

Consistency is fine, but there's a difference consistency and a chain of logic. I simply pointed out that something was not the latter.

[sikkbones]

No, I think it needs consistancy, not realism, for us to suspend our disbelief. If a world was created in which, among other things, bears flew around with no explenation beyond hybernation then that'd be fine so long as it was consistant. It wouldn't need any explenation beyond that, it wouldn't need a psedo-scientific backing or anything like that, they'd just need to make it so that bears always flew around (and, using your explenation, other animals that hybernate; consistancy and all that). So Superman flies and has super strength and x-ray vision and laser eyes and enhanced senses because of the Sun. This has been consistant in every single post-Crisis storyline and most of the Silver Age stuff as well; it doesn't need any more explenation, it's simply the accepted norm of the DC universe.

And to be honest that bit about the Humans Plus was my ranting about it. I really get annoyed that science fiction rarely shows aliens as, well, alien. Especially visual science fiction, but also in their thought process. But I explained it in such detail because you're asking for a scientific reason for a plot point in a fictional universe. It seems to me you may as well be asking the scientific reasoning behind the Simpsons having yellow skin.


why are some simpsons yellow and other simpsons other colors?

[Forsaken_One]

why are some simpsons yellow and other simpsons other colors?
Because milk curdles when left under heat.

[west3man]

Because milk curdles when left under heat.
LOL .

I don't even know WHY that was funny, but it was.

[sikkbones]

Because milk curdles when left under heat.
thank you oh knowledgeable one....
next time "note sarcasm"

[Forsaken_One]

I noted it, that's why I didn't actually answer the question. :)

[SUPERMAN PRIME]

he is faster than a speeding bullet...

[Smokey]

that doesnt seem right, it was never explained as a mutation over time, it would make more sense that something unique in the kryptonian DNA makeup is to charge certain types of energy(in this case yellow) into powers, maybe thats the way it was meant to be? maybe there was a red sun put there on purpose, if right off the bat they developed into supermen, they would of been conquerers, kryptonians, under any sun actually only have one power: the ability to take in yellow sun rays in exchange for unique gifts

also, if they had a yellow sun that turned red(i dont remember this ever being stated, as i recall their sun is named after their god, who was there before they were , and the sun was still red) but if the sun DID turn red, wouldnt this DEVISTATE their planet? any crops, plants, etc. that depended on yellow sunlight would die, they wouldnt just change over the course of a day to get used to the red sun, just imagine if OUR sun turned red, red suns are much weaker than yellow ones, which means krypton wouldnt ever be as warm as it once was, so it's safe to say they were never exposed to a yellow sun, which then wouldnt make sense for them to develop some sort of mutation to somethign they've never had near them

also, i dont know where u heard people from kandor got poisoned from leaving the bottle, i remember one time when a few ppl left kandor and had superpowers(even tho they were still shrunk)

[west3man]

also, i dont know where u heard people from kandor got poisoned from leaving the bottle, i remember one time when a few ppl left kandor and had superpowers(even tho they were still shrunk)
I only remember that from the cartoons. Never know if that stuff represents in-continuity stuff well or not.

[Smokey]

I only remember that from the cartoons. Never know if that stuff represents in-continuity stuff well or not.


the instance im talking about happened in a comic

[west3man]

the instance im talking about happened in a comicWhat're you, gettin' charged by the word?

DETAILS, Smokey, DETAILS!