Black Panther #3 *SPOILERS*

[Huh?]

This issue was awful. What is with Hudlin's dialogue? Everyone speaks like a 21st century teenager. This series also seems to be a soap box for Mr. Hudlin's world view. I don't understand why Marvel hasn't said anything to him. And, why on Earth was it necessary to have the Black Knight's horse poop on someone's head?

I also read Marvel Knights Spider-man (Also by Hudlin) and that had many of the same problems as BP.

What is everyone else thinking?

[SMKSPY]

I agree...worst issue yet...I like the "new" Klaw, and the Rhino part was funny, but I get tired of these "american is evil" stories.

[Crimson]

I understand that the hip talk is because this story is being told my people today so in translation they add words they'd use...

[west3man]

I thought the issue was great. Probably the best one, so far.

The horse dung was unnecessary, but still funny... Plus, she's a "bad guy" so I don't mind seein' her go through some crap. :p


re: Worldview
I had a feeling this would come up. Look, this is the way the world is. Insert a Black country that happens to have THE MOST advanced technology of all into this pseudo-reality and certain issues need to be addressed.

Considering Africa's history, this was appropriate and, in my opinion, well-handled.

What worldview did he hit us over the head with?

re: dialogue
I didn't have a single problem with the dialogue, that I recall. In fact, it's kinda got me wondering if I read a different book than the rest of you.

--------------------
How was America portrayed as evil?

[SMKSPY]

TO me I've had my share lately of this whole look at how the West abuses everyone else frame of mind. I have been hearing it alot from other people, and while I do not disagree with this point of view 100%... IMO I just don't want that type of crap in my comics. I go to comics for escapism not reinforcement of political beliefs. Comics like this, and Fox News only contribute to the stereotypes and misconceptions that people have.

[Huh?]

I thought the issue was great. Probably the best one, so far.

The horse dung was unnecessary, but still funny... Plus, she's a "bad guy" so I don't mind seein' her go through some crap. :p


re: Worldview
I had a feeling this would come up. Look, this is the way the world is. Insert a Black country that happens to have THE MOST advanced technology of all into this pseudo-reality and certain issues need to be addressed.

Considering Africa's history, this was appropriate and, in my opinion, well-handled.

What worldview did he hit us over the head with?

re: dialogue
I didn't have a single problem with the dialogue, that I recall. In fact, it's kinda got me wondering if I read a different book than the rest of you.

--------------------
How was America portrayed as evil?I don't feel that America was portrayed as evil, but the tone of the 3 books so far clearly hints at a world in which white people are essentially idiotic bigots. I do not see that where I am, but I can understand it in certain places. It is the fact that Hudlin uses absolutely absurd examples of stupidity from white people to indicate what white people in this world are like that annoys me.

As to the dialogue, I think we may be reading different books, because everyone sounds like a valley girl to me. And to think I trusted your judgement west3man. ;)

[west3man]

TO me I've had my share lately of this whole look at how the West abuses everyone else frame of mind. I have been hearing it alot from other people, and while I do not disagree with this point of view 100%... IMO I just don't want that type of crap in my comics. I go to comics for escapism not reinforcement of political beliefs. Comics like this, and Fox News only contribute to the stereotypes and misconceptions that people have.
It portrays an African country, rich in natural resources being highly sought-after by those who would like to take advantage of those resources.

Stereotype or not, that reflects history.

[thik_3rd]

i think it was a good issue, probably the best of the series so far...
but i think the wakandans are being portrayed as assholes...
the part when t'chaka was like "who gave you permission to say my name" was just :rolleyes:... he needed to be taken down a peg for that crap.
i think hudlin is trying to get that point across though, that they arent perfect even with their advanced tech. specifically, see the part when they were contemplating giving out the cure for cancer in exchange for info on klaw's whereabouts, and they mentioned that it wouldn't be worth it even for something "as important as revenge". for some people who look down on other civiliizations for their unenlightenment, that was a pretty weird thing to say...
i think hudlin may be setting things up to make tchalla look like a saint compared to the rest of the world and even other wakandans.

[west3man]

I don't feel that America was portrayed as evil, but the tone of the 3 books so far clearly hints at a world in which white people are essentially idiotic bigots. I do not see that where I am, but I can understand it in certain places. It is the fact that Hudlin uses absolutely absurd examples of stupidity from white people to indicate what white people in this world are like that annoys me. What white people are idiots? In what scenes?

Bigots? Well, most of this three-issue series has taken place in the past and much of Africa's history back then is reflective of the bigotry of certain people regarding certain other people.

Now, if it's a matter of there being NO redeeming white characters, so far, I guess I could see that. I can't think of any off the top of my head. Maybe we should give the series a little more time, though.

I will, anyway.

[west3man]

i think it was a good issue, probably the best of the series so far...
but i think the wakandans are being portrayed as assholes...
the part when t'chaka was like "who gave you permission to say my name" was just :rolleyes:... he needed to be taken down a peg for that crap.
i think hudlin is trying to get that point across though, that they arent perfect even with their advanced tech. specifically, see the part when they were contemplating giving out the cure for cancer in exchange for info on klaw's whereabouts, and they mentioned that it wouldn't be worth it even for something "as important as revenge". for some people who look down on other civiliizations for their unenlightenment, that was a pretty weird thing to say...
i think hudlin may be setting things up to make tchalla look like a saint compared to the rest of the world and even other wakandans.
Well, as far as the name thing... He's a king.

Who among us has the balls to walk up to a king and refer to him by his first name, like we're old friends? I wouldn't do that to a non-royal person, in general, if I didn't know them.

Regarding the cancer treatment and whatnot, we don't know what they've done in the past to try to share their technology. They already mentioned certain people's interests in selling medicine instead of selling cures.

I'm willing to say they've been condescending and maybe a bit assholish, but I'm not ready to write them off just yet.

[Doom Hammer]

I loved this issue. Not liked, but loved.

The dialogue is a little...innacurate, at times, but not horrible. It actually turns out to be a really funny contrast, especially in the context of the book.

Because I'm sorry, but the racial stereotypes exploited in this book are done so HILARIOUSLY! The French are weak! Russians are drunk! Americans are dumb, insensitive, and evil! Oh, how the list goes on. I don't agree with these sentiments, but the way Reginald is exploring them gives the book a skewed world view that borders on parody. I find it really funny, in a good way.

I enjoyed Klaw's backstory, because to be honest I'm not well-versed in the legend of the Black Panther. But this book has me interested.

I seriously could not stop laughing after Rhino's little "experiment." I can just see him thinking, "Hmmm, can I take down a real rhino?" Somebody, please, get the Jackass crew out here and call the Wild Boyz, we've got a new member for them!

My love for Batroc being undying, his presence in this book definitely adds something for me. Can't wait to see him in uniform as drawn by JRjr. His art can be pretty hit-or-miss, but he's been hitting more and more in both "Wolverine" and "Black Panther." Glad he's found a neat little spot in the MU after leaving "Amazing Spiderman."

The previous issues left me unimpressed, but this one leaves me thrilled. Can't wait for more of the satirical goodness.

[Loren]

Well, as far as the name thing... He's a king.

Who among us has the balls to walk up to a king and refer to him by his first name, like we're old friends? I wouldn't do that to a non-royal person, in general, if I didn't know them.

But who knew it was his first name? He's always been just T'Challa. Has he ever been given a second name? Even Ross refers to him as simply T'Challa to the NSA.

Plus, kings are often identified by their first names. The smart thing to do would probably be to say 'sir.'

BTW, what did everyone think of all the retcons in this issue? It looks more like Hudlin actually meant 'reboot' when he called it that.

Loren

[1HELLBOY]

I loved this issue as well. The whole "who said you could use my first name" thing, didn't come across me as asshole, it came across me as freakin BADASS. He's a king of WAKANDA, he DESERVES to be treated as such. Everything about this issue was great. And if I had the patience to name everything that I loved about this issue, I would lol. This series is getting better and better in my book.

[1HELLBOY]

But who knew it was his first name? He's always been just T'Challa. Has he ever been given a second name? Even Ross refers to him as simply T'Challa to the NSA.

Plus, kings are often identified by their first names. The smart thing to do would probably be to say 'sir.'

BTW, what did everyone think of all the retcons in this issue? It looks more like Hudlin actually meant 'reboot' when he called it that.

Loren


that was T'Chaka, father of T'Challa

[west3man]

But who knew it was his first name? He's always been just T'Challa. Has he ever been given a second name? Even Ross refers to him as simply T'Challa to the NSA. Wasn't that T'Chaka?

I don't know, but my guess is that THEY knew.

Plus, kings are often identified by their first names. The smart thing to do would probably be to say 'sir.' Probably.

BTW, what did everyone think of all the retcons in this issue? It looks more like Hudlin actually meant 'reboot' when he called it that.

Loren
I didn't know enough about his history to know it WAS a retcon - the Panther's OR Klaw's history.

[Loren]

that was T'Chaka, father of T'Challa

Sorry 'bout that. But the point still stands. T'Chaka's never had more than one name, either.

Loren

[1HELLBOY]

but I'm sure that "king" is KINDA like the first name for Kings that only have one birth name, KING T'Chaka, is kinda like his name

[west3man]

but I'm sure that "king" is KINDA like the first name for Kings that only have one birth name, KING T'Chaka, is kinda like his name
Hey, Charles!

"ExCUSE me?"

Err... PRINCE Charles?

"Dat's bettah! Pardon me while I git DOWN wit my royal self."


...or something like that.

[1HELLBOY]

Hey, Charles!

"ExCUSE me?"

Err... PRINCE Charles?

"Dat's bettah! Pardon me while I git DOWN wit my royal self."


...or something like that.

hahahaa funny stuff man :D

...or is that sarcasm? lol

[cosmicspidey]

The proper thing to call T'Chaka would have been "Your highness," or something to that effect. Of course, it's not like it was some peasant calling him by his first name, it was the head of another country. So pretty much on the same level as T'Chaka. So it seems to me he either a) was just being an asshole, or b) actually thinks he's better than everyone else.

I am dropping this book as of this issue. I was planning on staying on through the first arc, but I just can't stand the thing anymore. The writing is bad, the Wakandans are portrayed as selfish jerks, everyone else is portrayed as an ethnic stereotype. And to top it all off, Hudlin makes John Romita Jr.--JOHN ROMITA JR!--draw flying horse poop. That's the type of joke that goes better without a punchline, and certainly without an illustration, and this idiot Hudlin goes two steps too far.

Answer me this, though: if the layer of vinbranium absorbed the vibrations of the bullet and stopped it from going through the window, why didn't it absorb the vibrations of Klaw and prevent him from breaking through the window?

Oh yeah, and Hudlin sucked on MK Spidey, too.

[west3man]

The proper thing to call T'Chaka would have been "Your highness," or something to that effect. Of course, it's not like it was some peasant calling him by his first name, it was the head of another country. So pretty much on the same level as T'Chaka. So it seems to me he either a) was just being an asshole, or b) actually thinks he's better than everyone else. Not necessarily. The fact that people are on equal footing, status-wise, (and I'm not convinced that they are) does not necessarily mean that they should address each other in "the familiar."

It is *familiarity* which must reach a certain level before one gets comfortable using "the familiar."

I am dropping this book as of this issue. I was planning on staying on through the first arc, but I just can't stand the thing anymore. The writing is bad, the Wakandans are portrayed as selfish jerks, everyone else is portrayed as an ethnic stereotype. And to top it all off, Hudlin makes John Romita Jr.--JOHN ROMITA JR!--draw flying horse poop. That's the type of joke that goes better without a punchline, and certainly without an illustration, and this idiot Hudlin goes two steps too far. This is certain an interesting experiment/education for me.

I get to see who a book like this, with so much potential, gets stopped before it gets started.

Answer me this, though: if the layer of vinbranium absorbed the vibrations of the bullet and stopped it from going through the window, why didn't it absorb the vibrations of Klaw and prevent him from breaking through the window? Maybe because he was going the other way?

Admittedly, though, I didn't understand something. Maybe I was *supposed to* just *assume* that Klaw was the one looking through the 'scope and firing the gun. Well, I guess that's what I did. So, when he jumped out of the floorboards, that was a head-scratching moment, for me.

Oh yeah, and Hudlin sucked on MK Spidey, too. I didn't dig it, but if the freakin' ART had been better, I might've given it more of a shot.

The characterization seemed off, I'm still interested in how the "cliffhanger" is resolved.

[Huh?]

I am surprised so many of you like this series so much. Do you guys really think that this is a good BP story? Or, are you just really big fans that really want to like it? I consider myself a very mild fan of the character, and was reading this series because it was new from a new creator. I will give it two arcs before I drop it, but so far it has not impressed me.

[Dipset Byrd Gang]

Why is everyone criing about the book and the way people are portrayed. Is it a race thing and the book is superb.

[west3man]

I am surprised so many of you like this series so much. Do you guys really think that this is a good BP story? I'm just giving it a chance to build up, but I DO see a great deal of potential - both in the first three issues AND in what Quesada and Hudlin have said about what's in store for this title AND the Marvel Universe.

It's not just what it represents, but how much sense it makes. The most technologically advanced country in the world OUGHT to have a real presence in the Marvel U. Historically, it hasn't, but supposedly, that's about to change.

Such a change SHOULD be well thought-out, detailed, and deliberate. So far, this has the markings of just such an effort.

Or, are you just really big fans that really want to like it? I'm not such a big Black Panther fan, but I've seen the character and title's potential more and more over time and am BECOMING a bigger fan.

You're right that I WANT to like it, but my fondness for the series, so far is mostly based on the quality I've seen, not just a fondness for the character.

It's a fair question, though.

I consider myself a very mild fan of the character, and was reading this series because it was new from a new creator. I will give it two arcs before I drop it, but so far it has not impressed me. Starting with the history of the character makes sense, to me. A little build-up and context can work wonders.

The Ultimates took a minute to get off-the-ground, but eventually it really took off! Hopefully, this one will take off, as well, although I hope it's not in the same direction, exactly.

[BlackKnight]

So is it Dane Whiteman, and is he a bad guy in the book?

[Huh?]

So is it Dane Whiteman, and is he a bad guy in the book?How is your horse, BlackKnight? His turd looked a little chunky. :D

[BlackKnight]

How is your horse, BlackKnight? His turd looked a little chunky. :D

That was just stupid, and thanks for not answering my question. :rolleyes:

[SMKSPY]

It portrays an African country, rich in natural resources being highly sought-after by those who would like to take advantage of those resources.

Stereotype or not, that reflects history.

I enjoyed all the African Scramble scenes. Those were great, however I do not think that the American Government would now just take notice of this country, and actively persue a coup or whatever they are planning. It's the stereotype that the Bush administration is going after every rogue nation for its resources that I'm tired of. Yeah, we all know that Bush went into Iraq for the oil, but I've seen it played out enough that I'm sick of it.

[west3man]

So is it Dane Whiteman, and is he a bad guy in the book?
I don't think they said, explicitly, who the character was.

[BlackKnight]

I don't think they said, explicitly, who the character was.

Ok, so did they put him in the current armour and helmet like he was in H4H and such?

[west3man]

I enjoyed all the African Scramble scenes. Those were great, however I do not think that the American Government would now just take notice of this country, and actively persue a coup or whatever they are planning. It's the stereotype that the Bush administration is going after every rogue nation for its resources that I'm tired of. Yeah, we all know that Bush went into Iraq for the oil, but I've seen it played out enough that I'm sick of it.
Look what you just said, "whatever they are planning." We don't KNOW what they're planning, but you're already "sick of it."

It's your choice, of course, but it seems to be a little early-on to decide that entire ethnic groups or government organizations will be depicted one-dimensionally.

In fact, to whomever mentioned that every white guy was a bigot and/or imbecile, I think whomever was The Black Knight didn't seem to have fit that mold. There may have been others and there probably will be more, in the future.

[SMKSPY]

Look what you just said, "whatever they are planning." We don't KNOW what they're planning, but you're already "sick of it."

It's your choice, of course, but it seems to be a little early-on to decide that entire ethnic groups or government organizations will be depicted one-dimensionally.

In fact, to whomever mentioned that every white guy was a bigot and/or imbecile, I think whomever was The Black Knight didn't seem to have fit that mold. There may have been others and there probably will be more, in the future.

I'm going to see how it plays out, but as of right now I do not like the possible direction. Its just me of course, and the do like the rest of the book. I've been bombarded by this issue lately, whether in class, the media, or at home. It makes me miss the days that I just didn't notice or care about what was going on in the world.

[west3man]

I'm going to see how it plays out, but as of right now I do not like the possible direction. Its just me of course, and the do like the rest of the book. I've been bombarded by this issue lately, whether in class, the media, or at home. It makes me miss the days that I just didn't notice or care about what was going on in the world.
Not me. Those days make me feel like I was walking through a hospital but saw nothing but shiny, happy, healthy people.

I'm glad I woke up and am hoping and helping others do the same.

[Core]

Not me. Those days make me feel like I was walking through a hospital but saw nothing but shiny, happy, healthy people.

I'm glad I woke up and am hoping and helping others do the same.

Word




.

[hbkabdul]

Hudlin's Spiderman was weak i gotta admit that but his Black Panther # 3 was an extremely good read. If the series continues as is ill continue to buy. Only nitpicking I have is the continuity which i hope will make sense in the long run.

[SMKSPY]

Not me. Those days make me feel like I was walking through a hospital but saw nothing but shiny, happy, healthy people.

I'm glad I woke up and am hoping and helping others do the same.


of course, but don't you ever miss the innocence of those times. I can remember a period when I never thought about all the bad stuff in life, not worried about tomorrow or next week, and generally lived day by day.

I was living in a fools world, but man it was fun. Oh well, enough strolling through memory lane time to get back to the real world.

[west3man]

of course, but don't you ever miss the innocence of those times. I can remember a period when I never thought about all the bad stuff in life, not worried about tomorrow or next week, and generally lived day by day.

I was living in a fools world, but man it was fun. Oh well, enough strolling through memory lane time to get back to the real world.
I can understand that. Kinda like not having to worry about bills.

[cosmicspidey]

So is it Dane Whiteman, and is he a bad guy in the book?

The story so far is set pre-first appearance of Black panther in FF. This Black Knight must be the one that was in the very first Masters of Evil in early Avengers. If that was Dane Whitman, than so is this one.

[thik_3rd]

nah, that was his (dane's) uncle i think.

[Loren]

The story so far is set pre-first appearance of Black panther in FF.

No, it's definitely set after BP's first appearance in FF #52. 'Ross' said so in #1:

"If it makes you feel any better, the Panther also beat the Fantastic Four in..."

Loren

[Alex Dragon]

I really liked this issue. He's portraying the characters and situations in a fairly logical, realistic and unapologetic manner as far as relations betwen countries go. I knew after reading the issue some people wouldn't like Hudlin's take on some matters or characters and after reading some of the comments here I was right.

I haven't read Hudlin's Spider-man yet but I think Hudlin's going to bring a fresh voice and take to comics. I know many readers like their books whitewashed, sanitzed and just rolling out more of the same ol' same ol', but I always like change and ruffling a few feathers.

[zebop]

We're three issues in and I'm not ready to render a verdict yet. The idea of America as a Evil Empire may rub some folks the wrong way, but if you read a history book---or at least a honestly written one---you'll soon realize that no nation is always on the side of the angels in its foreign policy and this one is not an exception.

Just because Reginald Hudlin can direct or write movies doesn't mean he can write a comic book. It's funny but there must be something about the Black Panther that appeals to writers who write in a very distinctive and unique "voice" such as Don McGregor, Christopher Priest and now Reginald Hudlin. But both McGregor and Priest were experienced veterans of the genre. Hudlin isn't so we will have to see if he raise his game or he's just slumming until his next film project is green-lighted.


:rolleyes:

[Loren]

We're three issues in and I'm not ready to render a verdict yet. The idea of America as a Evil Empire may rub some folks the wrong way, but if you read a history book---or at least a honestly written one---you'll soon realize that no nation is always on the side of the angels in its foreign policy and this one is not an exception.

I was flipping through Priest's BP #1 earlier (the only issue I have on hand), and came across this bit of narration about what was going on in Wakanda right before the issue's start:

You see, back in Wakanda, things were a little tense. The client had set up a refugee camp in the kingdom's border region where tribesmen seeking asylum from regional ethnic wars would be safe.

Safe from their governments - but not from each other. They kinda brought their war with them. The client often found himself interceding in skirmishes between the refugees, which aggravated the Wakandan people that much more.

See, Wakandans come pretty much in two flavors - the city dwellers and the marsh tribesmen. They never agreed on ANYTHING - until the client granted asylum to the refugees.

So, to review: the city dwellers hated the tribesmen, the tribesmen hated the city dwellers, they both hated the refugees who hate them in return, despite the fact Wakanda was clothing and feeding them at the time. And of course - EVERYONE resented the client because he wouldn't do things THEIR WAY.

I read that and thought, "That's a pretty accurate representation of how international politics tends to work." And it's a take that I find much more believable than 'The U.S. masterminds and backs a supervillain task force to invade and take over a foreign country, just because it feels like it.' Hudlin's America is behaving more like a Silver Age Latveria or Atlantis than a real country.

Loren

[west3man]

I read that and thought, "That's a pretty accurate representation of how international politics tends to work." And it's a take that I find much more believable than 'The U.S. masterminds and backs a supervillain task force to invade and take over a foreign country, just because it feels like it.' Hudlin's America is behaving more like a Silver Age Latveria or Atlantis than a real country.

Loren
Maybe I didn't read the issue closely enough, but I didn't recall anyone explicitly stating that America was doing ANYTHING.

[Loren]

Maybe I didn't read the issue closely enough, but I didn't recall anyone explicitly stating that America was doing ANYTHING.

In #1, Klaw visits a fellow villain in prison, asking him to join Klaw's team and offering up a Presidential pardon for his cooperation.

I suppose Klaw could've been lying about the pardon, but somebody had to release the guy from his prison cell.

Loren

[We R. Venom]

This issue was awful. What is with Hudlin's dialogue? Everyone speaks like a 21st century teenager. This series also seems to be a soap box for Mr. Hudlin's world view. I don't understand why Marvel hasn't said anything to him. And, why on Earth was it necessary to have the Black Knight's horse poop on someone's head?

I also read Marvel Knights Spider-man (Also by Hudlin) and that had many of the same problems as BP.

What is everyone else thinking?

You must be joking. Th Dialogue was the best par especially 4,5 and 6. plus the rhino was great. I think it was the best issue yet, and sure hope he keeps it up.

[DocZulu]

I agree...worst issue yet...I like the "new" Klaw, and the Rhino part was funny, but I get tired of these "american is evil" stories.

Coming from the gentleman flipping the bird in an avatar ;)

Seriously, this is a solid comic dealing with politics in a realistic way. If that is perceived as "wrong headed" that says more about the reader than the writer.

Understandably some American readers will be sensitized to this. But, remember, the Authority had fun mocking not just Bill Clinton's America but the entire planet.

[Alex Dragon]

Just because Reginald Hudlin can direct or write movies doesn't mean he can write a comic book. It's funny but there must be something about the Black Panther that appeals to writers who write in a very distinctive and unique "voice" such as Don McGregor, Christopher Priest and now Reginald Hudlin. But both McGregor and Priest were experienced veterans of the genre. Hudlin isn't so we will have to see if he raise his game or he's just slumming until his next film project is green-lighted.


:rolleyes:

A good writer is a good writer. If a person can weave an entertaining tale the format shouldn't make that much of a difference. As far as I can tell Hudlin can write a comic.

Black Panther appeals to writers that have a unique "voice" because there's so much there to work with if it's looked at and handled correctly. The writers who aren't unique tend to just look at the Panther as another superhero in tights and their work with the character is usually forgettable. Ther's ben many more writers who've handled the Panther other than those mentioned but their work doesn't stand out.

[GreatLakesAvengers]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/51598259310.148.GIF

[cosmicspidey]

A good writer is a good writer. If a person can weave an entertaining tale the format shouldn't make that much of a difference. As far as I can tell Hudlin can write a comic.

I disagree. Writer is specialized. That's why Keith Giffen needed JM Demataiss (sp?) to script Justice League. Giffen could write a damn entertaining plot, but he couldn't write dialogue for crap. They're two different types of writing, and just becuase Giffen was good at one doesn't mean he's good at the other. Plot, dialogue, action, drama, comedy, film, TV novels, comics...they're all different. Many people have excelled at one and failed at another.

[west3man]

I disagree. Writer is specialized. That's why Keith Giffen needed JM Demataiss (sp?) to script Justice League. Giffen could write a damn entertaining plot, but he couldn't write dialogue for crap. They're two different types of writing, and just becuase Giffen was good at one doesn't mean he's good at the other. Plot, dialogue, action, drama, comedy, film, TV novels, comics...they're all different. Many people have excelled at one and failed at another.
I may not agree that Hudlin's a bad writer, in fact I think he's given us indications that he IS, but I agree with the above.

[Neolucifer]

I loved the issue . I'll always be sad priest isnt onboard , but so far Hudlin's take is entertaining and of great quality .

Now i cant wait to see the Sabretooth /Black Panther battle hinted with the cover of the Hous of M tie-in . I'm not a huge fan of Romita jr's art , it really depends of the project , but i do love his "animation" in battles (especially those scenes in the current wolverine run).

[SMKSPY]

Coming from the gentleman flipping the bird in an avatar ;)

Seriously, this is a solid comic dealing with politics in a realistic way. If that is perceived as "wrong headed" that says more about the reader than the writer.

Understandably some American readers will be sensitized to this. But, remember, the Authority had fun mocking not just Bill Clinton's America but the entire planet.


No comic deals with politics in a realistic way, that just is not gonna happen.

I love the inner government working its secret agenda stories the same as the next guy. I just want to see more secret government agendas stories about France, England, Germany, etc.. Its just a common thing now for writers to always use the US for these stories since we're the Hegemon.

I think the series is great so far. I love the historical detailing of Wakanda.
I just don't want this book to become a North vs. South debate thats all.

[C.O. Jones]

Who's the Russian who needs his toilet fixed? The Titanium Man, maybe?

Wondering also if the newly appointed US ambassador might become Eric Killmonger or another of BP's enemies, given the jealousy angle...

Was the interior story title meant to be that blurry? (from the sun's glare?) I actually had to squint to read my copy.

Good issue, I thought. More than made up for #2, which took quite a dip.

Prince Namor on the aquaphone?! Alrighty then! :D

And just to go on record, I got no problems at all with the politics in the book. I believe in letting the writing take its course and not judging all whites, American Govt. officials, or Wakandans for that matter, by what I've read so far in only 3 issues.

The PM from Niganda who ruled his country a la Idi Amin runs contrary to the possibility that every black would be shown in a positive light versus white=the bad guys. He's right up there ready to take his spoils in the upcoming invasion as well as everyone else

And calling T'Chaka by his first name was a straight-up dis. It doesn't matter if his name was known or not, Your Highness is quite sufficient in all settings. This was their first meeting but by no means the white gentleman's first dealings with royal heads of state, I'll wager.

And for those who weren't aware, iirc, Klaw was originally a dealer in ivory and came to Wakanda looking for it. He shot & killed T'Chaka when he defied his efforts and young T'Challa shot his hand, driving him off for the time being.

That Black Knight angle is pretty intriguing, what with the mention of the Templars, Arthurian legends and all the Vatican artifacts and stuff. Sounds like this could be another Crusade to proselytize the masses along with the joint effort to topple the govt.

I'm sticking around.

[Neolucifer]

I love the inner government working its secret agenda stories the same as the next guy. I just want to see more secret government agendas stories about France, England, Germany, etc.. Its just a common thing now for writers to always use the US for these stories since we're the Hegemon.

I think the series is great so far. I love the historical detailing of Wakanda.
I just don't want this book to become a North vs. South debate thats all.

Well to be fair its happening already , even if only a bit , Belgium has helped Klaw and his family , even if not apparently the current boss of klaw's expedition . And he's also helped by the Vatican , even if by a wealthy minority with an agenda .

[Loren]

Who's the Russian who needs his toilet fixed? The Titanium Man, maybe?

This interview of Reggie's (http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/pulse.cgi?http%3A//www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi%3Fubb%3Dget_topic%26f%3D36%26t%3D00 3394), had this paragraph:

"Well, Klaw is obligatory if you’re telling the origin, but I wanted my own version of The Sinister Six. Each member represents a different national interest, a different personality, and a different way of fighting. I also used a character I created several years ago that seemed perfect for this context."

So here's who we know is part of the team, and their respective nationalities:

Klaw - Belgian
Batroc - French
Rhino - American
Black Knight - British
Cannibal - Nigandan (and Reggie's creation)
"Igor" - Russian (the radioactive guy)

That's six. The solicits for next issue are very clear about Radioactive Man being part of the team, and "Igor" is pretty clearly radioactive. The logical assumption is that "Igor" is RM.

Unfortunately, Radioactive Man isn't Russian, and his name isn't Igor. He's Chinese, and his name is Chen Lu.

So either RM is now Russian instead of Chinese, or else the team is more of a 'Sinister Seven.' If it's the latter, then no one really has a clue who "Igor" could be. The best guess is Gargoyle, who is Russian and who has some ties to radiation, but whose name has never been said to be "Igor."

Loren

[Neolucifer]

Actually yes Gargoyle is named igor , Igor Drenkov . but then he so far got no powers , and of course got nothing to do with the other Gargoyle (Isaac Christian)

As for the "radioactive man" from the sollicit , i think it might just be a way to conceal his identity , or it might be a new character .

[Doom Hammer]

Prince Namor on the aquaphone?! Alrighty then! :D

"Also, sire, the Monkey King Ooh-ooh is on the banana-phone."

Ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring - BANANA phoooooone!

*Loves this book!!!*

[Loren]

Actually yes Gargoyle is named igor , Igor Drenkov . but then he so far got no powers , and of course got nothing to do with the other Gargoyle (Isaac Christian)

First off, I goofed. It wasn't Gargoyle that someone suggested, it was Quasimodo. He also lacks a name. But I'm not even sure if he's Russian.

Igor Drenkov worked for the Gargoyle, but Igor himself had no powers (as you said). He was just a spy. And Gargoyle died in Hulk #1.

As for the "radioactive man" from the sollicit , i think it might just be a way to conceal his identity , or it might be a new character .

Here's the exact quote from the solicit:

When Klaw unfurls his carefully orchestrated siege on Wakanda, there's no place to hide. Cutting a swathe through Wakanda's ground forces - the Rhino and Batroc. Slicing through Wakanda's aerial defensives -- the Black Knight. And striking a blow where no one would ever expect - the Radioactive Man.

Unless Hudlin created a second character using an existing name, it's the same RM.

Loren

[west3man]

"Also, sire, the Monkey King Ooh-ooh is on the banana-phone."

Ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring - BANANA phoooooone!

*Loves this book!!!*
Come, again?

[BlackKnight]

The story so far is set pre-first appearance of Black panther in FF. This Black Knight must be the one that was in the very first Masters of Evil in early Avengers. If that was Dane Whitman, than so is this one.

The BK thing is all messed up, the artist has him in the modern armour carring the Ebony blade, Dane's Uncle never carried the Ebony blade and Dane did not ever carry it in the armour he is in. It is called poor research.

[Neolucifer]

I'd say its retcon (or reboot as hudlin like to say) rather than lack of knowledge or research .

[BlackKnight]

I'd say its retcon (or reboot as hudlin like to say) rather than lack of knowledge or research .

LOL, well that makes no sense since BK appeared in the big team thing in the Avengers. I really think it is lack of knowledge. Hudlin has come off that way in his interviews to me. And I am so tired of Marvel retconing everything, how about there writers actually do there jobs and know about the charaters they are writing rather then rewriting them. :rolleyes:

[Neolucifer]

Well you can quite see the pattern in his first issue .. Look at the old cap and black panther fight , it actually ended in a draw , or you could say never really ended . He certainly knows that , he just dont care and got a free (holywood) pass .

I can see where he is heading toward ... he is retconning everything to set up BP and Wakanda as a much more major MU player . So he is bringing along a far more competent and scary Klaw , a older BK BUT with probably what he consider to be his strongest gear and "powers" : the Ebony Blade and his modern armour .
And the pattern keeps going on .... soon BP probably beating the crap out of Sabretooth , and you can bet that in the near future he will try to establish in a FF/BP meeting , that Tchallah is a better scientist than Reed .
He is batman-izing Black panther ...

I'm not a fan of such easy and repeated retcons , but "sadly" its still imo a good read , and i might only scream foul , when he dare touch , with the retcon wand , a character i really like . (well i always loved BP and so far the retcon isnt bringing him down :D )

[BlackKnight]

Well you can quite see the pattern in his first issue .. Look at the old cap and black panther fight , it actually ended in a draw , or you could say never really ended . He certainly knows that , he just dont care and got a free (holywood) pass .

I can see where he is heading toward ... he is retconning everything to set up BP and Wakanda as a much more major MU player . So he is bringing along a far more competent and scary Klaw , a older BK BUT with probably what he consider to be his strongest gear and "powers" : the Ebony Blade and his modern armour .
And the pattern keep going on .... soon BP probably beating the crap out of Sabretooth , and you can bet that in the near future he will try to establish in a FF/BP meeting , that Tchallah is a better scientist than Reed .
He is batman-izing Black panther ...

I'm not a fan of such easy and repeated retcons , but "sadly" its still imo a good read , and i might only scream foul , when he dare touch , with the retcon wand , a character i really like . (well i always loved BP and so far the retcon isnt bringing him down :D )

Well, once again you read a lot more into the story and the writers brain then is really possible unless your phyicic. Since, you obvious know little about Bk and the ebony blade since the weapons he has now are far more powerful and don't come with the blood curse, which I would guess Huldin does not know about. And god BP does not need to be batman-ized. He was cool they way he was in Red Zone. It is sad that marvel feels they need to revamp everything.

Again I say, don't use charaters that you don't know anything or very minamul things about. It is obvious that is the case here, if you wish to read so much into it that you are basically writting the story in your head for the writer then go for it, but realize that is what you are doing.

[west3man]

I'm pretty sure it's been said, quite clearly, by Marvel Big Dawgs that this new series may draw inspiration from the past, but will not necessarily be bound by it. Call that a retcon, a reboot, or an oragutang (sp?) if you like. What it means to me is that if something in the book doesn't match Marvel continuity, I'd first assume it's because Marvel was okay with that.

Evidence should lead to conclusions. Conclusions based on no evidence are just guesses. Those may have some value, but recognize them for what they are.

[Neolucifer]

Fair enough about the BK stuff , however most of what i've said arent reallyinterpretations of the story , but rather his thoughts in interviews . He do keep saying that BP is or should be stronger than cap , smarter than Reed , etc etc ...
You can easily sense that for whatever reason (BP being black or maybe something else) he is forcefully buffing up BP and his role into the MU .

Other than i agree with west3man , Marvel clearly stated that it would not exactly follow continuity (even if only after the first issue).

[BlackKnight]

I'm pretty sure it's been said, quite clearly, by Marvel Big Dawgs that this new series may draw inspiration from the past, but will not necessarily be bound by it. Call that a retcon, a reboot, or an oragutang (sp?) if you like. What it means to me is that if something in the book doesn't match Marvel continuity, I'd first assume it's because Marvel was okay with that.

Evidence should lead to conclusions. Conclusions based on no evidence are just guesses. Those may have some value, but recognize them for what they are.

True, and never did I say that Marvel is not ok with it, marvel is ok with retconning pretty much anything these days, nothing is scared except perhaps Uncle Ben from spidey. The evidence leads to one of two things, either he never researched the charaters he is using or he did and through out everything he did not like, either one to me is poor writing in a serial story setting which what comics are.

[BlackKnight]

Fair enough about the BK stuff , however most of what i've said arent reallyinterpretations of the story , but rather his thoughts in interviews . He do keep saying that BP is or should be stronger than cap , smarter than Reed , etc etc ...
You can easily sense that for whatever reason (BP being black or maybe something else) he is forcefully buffing up BP and his role into the MU .

Other than i agree with west3man , Marvel clearly stated that it would not excatly follow continuity (even if only after the first issue).

Thanks for the BK nod there Neolucifer, as for the BP stuff, well he is not stronger then Cap, Cap is as strong as you get and remain human, unless BP is not human now, and Reed is a super genius and BP really just isn't to change the charater like you mentioned, well you should just create a new charater and have done with it.

[Neolucifer]

Oh i do understand your point , that writers not even able to follow continuity , or that follow it so loosely , arent good ones , especially in the present case , with a continuity that was hardly messed up .

And i might usually agree , however so far, i end up with a fairly good and entertaining issue , when i dont look at the changes .
So i'll stay along the ride , as long as it remains good and entertaining stories , while maybe hoping it wont affect too much the MU , or only in a good way (but that rarely happens).

[west3man]

True, and never did I say that Marvel is not ok with it, marvel is ok with retconning pretty much anything these days, nothing is scared except perhaps Uncle Ben from spidey. The evidence leads to one of two things, either he never researched the charaters he is using or he did and through out everything he did not like, either one to me is poor writing in a serial story setting which what comics are.
I got the clear impression that the post I was responding to was saying that Hudlin's poor research was the cause of the continuity contradictions.

What I've said points out that we have greater reason to believe that it was due to a Marvel-borne or Marvel-okayed edict that these things came-about.

"Poor research" shouldn't even be an issue. I hope this is clear.

I mean no offense, but we're* running around in circles unnecessarily on too many threads, so I probably won't respond to this particular point, again.



* re: CBRians, in general

[BlackKnight]

I got the clear impression that the post I was responding to was saying that Hudlin's poor research was the cause of the continuity contradictions.

What I've said points out that we have greater reason to believe that it was due to a Marvel-borne or Marvel-okayed edict that these things came-about.

"Poor research" shouldn't even be an issue. I hope this is clear.

I mean no offense, but we're* running around in circles unnecessarily on too many threads, so I probably won't respond to this particular point, again.



* re: CBRians, in general

Ahh, I think it is simpling poor research and marvel does not care if he changes it. that simple. thanks

[BlackKnight]

Oh i do understand your point , that writers not even able to follow continuity , or that follow it so loosely , arent good ones , especially in the present case , with a continuity that was hardly messed up .

And i might usually agree , however so far, i end up with a fairly good and entertaining issue , when i dont look at the changes .
So i'll stay along the ride , as long as it remains good and entertaining stories , while maybe hoping it wont affect too much the MU , or only in a good way (but that rarely happens).

Thats cool. I think maybe I am just finally gotten feed up with Marvel policy regarding this. Could be why my marvel purchases each month are getting smaller and smaller.

[Adam Crocker]

No comic deals with politics in a realistic way, that just is not gonna happen.

No? Not even Joe Sacco's Palestine or Jason Lutes' Berlin: City of Stones (well where it touches on German politics in the 1920s)?

I would say that dealing with politics is more a problem in escapist superhero comics, particularly in the Marvel and DC Universes where attempting to bring real-world geo politics (even if we can debate how accurrately they are reflected in the Black Panther) into them often crashes against the needs of the respective fantasy worlds.

Edit: Which is leaving aside whether or not Hudlin's take on politics in the Black Panther is ridiculously ham-handed.

[djsully3]

Now i cant wait to see the Sabretooth /Black Panther battle hinted with the cover of the Hous of M tie-in . I'm not a huge fan of Romita jr's art , it really depends of the project , but i do love his "animation" in battles (especially those scenes in the current wolverine run).

I thought the House Of M tie-in for Black Panther was issue 7. Is the cover for that up somewhere already?

[djsully3]

I am dropping this book as of this issue. I was planning on staying on through the first arc, but I just can't stand the thing anymore. The writing is bad, the Wakandans are portrayed as selfish jerks, everyone else is portrayed as an ethnic stereotype. And to top it all off, Hudlin makes John Romita Jr.--JOHN ROMITA JR!--draw flying horse poop. That's the type of joke that goes better without a punchline, and certainly without an illustration, and this idiot Hudlin goes two steps too far.

I thought the same thing right when I got to the poo part, but I'm still kinda interested to see what happens. It was like "Wow, cool, the Black Knight ... oh hey, flying horse ... did that girl just get shat on?" Totally uncalled for and pretty pointless if you ask me. Maybe I'm just not one of those people that thinks poop is funny.

Oh yeah, and Hudlin sucked on MK Spidey, too.

Definitely dropping Spidey now. I've got nothing against Hudlin, but man ... a horse taking a dump on a character's head in Black Panther, and then Absorbing Man throwing up on Spider-Man? What the heck? Again, maybe I'm just not seeing the comedy in vomit (even if it's made of rocks) and sh*t. Especially when I read the two issues back-to-back and the same type of comedic-relief thing popped up.

[west3man]

I thought the same thing right when I got to the poo part, but I'm still kinda interested to see what happens. It was like "Wow, cool, the Black Knight ... oh hey, flying horse ... did that girl just get shat on?" Totally uncalled for and pretty pointless if you ask me. Maybe I'm just not one of those people that thinks poop is funny.



Definitely dropping Spidey now. I've got nothing against Hudlin, but man ... a horse taking a dump on a character's head in Black Panther, and then Absorbing Man throwing up on Spider-Man? What the heck? Again, maybe I'm just not seeing the comedy in vomit (even if it's made of rocks) and sh*t. Especially when I read the two issues back-to-back and the same type of comedic-relief thing popped up.
Maybe those comic moments weren't funny, but your post sure was.

You had me crackin' up.

[djsully3]

Maybe those comic moments weren't funny, but your post sure was.

You had me crackin' up.

I try, I try. ;)

Hudlin definitely get points for being original though (x2), and that's pretty rare. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw something those scenes in a major book.

Oh, and Rhino vs. a rhino was awesome.

I wish Romita Jr. was doing MK Spidey too. The Black Panther team looks like they're working really well together.

[SMKSPY]

No? Not even Joe Sacco's Palestine or Jason Lutes' Berlin: City of Stones (well where it touches on German politics in the 1920s)?

I would say that dealing with politics is more a problem in escapist superhero comics, particularly in the Marvel and DC Universes where attempting to bring real-world geo politics (even if we can debate how accurrately they are reflected in the Black Panther) into them often crashes against the needs of the respective fantasy worlds.

Edit: Which is leaving aside whether or not Hudlin's take on politics in the Black Panther is ridiculously ham-handed.


your comic pride must be at a all time high for pointing those books out to me. :rolleyes: