Womenly Wimmens Writers. [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

Papergirl

04-10-2005, 09:26 PM

Nope. I'm just looking for a good story and couldn't really give a rat's ass what the gender of the person who wrote it was.

If it turns out to be a *bad* story? I judge both genders equally. They are both perfectly capable of doing whatever homework is neccessary on whatever subject they happen to be writing about to make it a good story/article/interview/whatever.

Not sure if that made any sense at all, as I really REALLY need sleep now...

G'night!

~Bev

TCJohnson

04-10-2005, 09:30 PM

I always hear how women are not represented well in comics. So I am curious to see how women writers handle them. Not in a "Let them see if they can do any better nyah nyah!" but more just studying a different perspective.

Other than that, I don't really care either way.

Karl J. Barnes

04-10-2005, 09:33 PM

No. If I liked what that particular writer wrote before, then I will likely read more by him or her. In fact, alot of the genre novels that I read are made up of lots of female writers, so as long as the story intrigues me, I'll read it.

phoenixrising

04-10-2005, 09:33 PM

I don't really notice if a woman has written something I've read unless it's pointed out to me. I like what I like....though upon looking over my books, I don't have many women writers. I don't know if it means I don't like books by women writers or I just haven't read many...

Dee3

04-10-2005, 10:01 PM

I judge on the bases of how good it is.

Dennis

04-10-2005, 10:03 PM

Charles RB

04-10-2005, 10:03 PM

No.

(rasser frassing 10 character limit)

Dennis

04-10-2005, 10:17 PM

few more thoughts

i like edgy women who write about themselves - blogs, columns, memoirs.

but i stay away from women's fiction.

they can express what's going on in their minds very well, but when it comes to fictional characters, something goes wrong.

they have trouble channeling. and they can't channel male characters. they don't understand men!

Kyuubi

04-10-2005, 10:24 PM

No. I've always waited until I read a few issues of a writers work before I judge whether I like it or not. Not a good idea money-wise, but the process has kept me on a lot of great books. A person's sex has never played a part in any of those decisions.

LtMarvel

04-10-2005, 10:35 PM

Hmmm...I might make assumptions of the writer's gender based on the writing (didn't everyone in this case*), but it hardly means I like the writing less/more.

* I can't be the only one who thought Terry Moore was a woman when I first read Strangers in Paradise, can I?

Karl J. Barnes

04-10-2005, 10:39 PM

Lunar Daydreamer

04-10-2005, 11:20 PM

It depends on the quality of writing.

To give two (none Gail) type examples - whilst Barbara Kesel was doing stunning stuff over on Meridian, Kelley Puckett was on Batgirl.

That said Kesel's book to me wasn't particularly woman-centric - I saw it as a big, romantic epic of the ilk of Miyazaki and the Final Fantasy games - and the cast I truly miss even now.

Puckett on the other hand was creating a wonderful action epic, with some wonderful character development. A female character again certainly, but another which I felt for and invested in utterly.

Likewise my own gender doesn't affecting adoring and feeling for a character of the opposite sex whatsoever.

Jeff Brady

04-11-2005, 12:40 AM

It depends on the quality of writing.

To give two (none Gail) type examples - whilst Barbara Kesel was doing stunning stuff over on Meridian, Kelley Puckett was on Batgirl.

I hate to break it to you, but Kelley Puckett's a guy.

From an interview about the DC Focus comic Kinetic (http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/pulse.cgi?http%3A//www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi%3Fubb%3Dget_topic%26f%3D36%26t%3D00 1730):

Puckett informed THE PULSE that he wasn't the first man for the writing job on this series.
- - - - -
As for the topic, ah, no, I don't care about the gender of the writer. I like good stories.

And shouldn't it be "womyn" in the title of the thread? :p

WhiteRose

04-11-2005, 01:39 AM

Well, I'm taking a flying leap onto the bandwagon and saying I too don't care what gender the writer is, I'll tell them their work sucks if their work sucks. Woo!

And shouldn't it be "womyn" in the title of the thread?

Eh, womyn, wimmin, womin. Let's get technical :P

Lunar Daydreamer

04-11-2005, 03:43 AM

I hate to break it to you, but Kelley Puckett's a guy.

From an interview about the DC Focus comic Kinetic (http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/pulse.cgi?http%3A//www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi%3Fubb%3Dget_topic%26f%3D36%26t%3D00 1730):

- - - - -
As for the topic, ah, no, I don't care about the gender of the writer. I like good stories.

And shouldn't it be "womyn" in the title of the thread? :p

I know Kelley's a bloake .. I was giving examples of two writers, male and female who were both writing strong female characters brilliantly.

Probably could have exoplained myself a little better as such ... but damn I miss reading his work on a monthly basis.

Hoping you're well! :)

abbas.khan

04-11-2005, 05:18 AM

i used to think chris claremont was a girl until i met him at a con.

i was like - no way can a guy write all that mushy stuff lol.

i was ten.

i really love louise simonsons work though - ill follow her anywhere.

Pixies Chick

04-11-2005, 05:23 AM

I know Kelley's a bloake .. I was giving examples of two writers, male and female who were both writing strong female characters brilliantly.

Probably could have exoplained myself a little better as such ... but damn I miss reading his work on a monthly basis.

Hoping you're well! :)

Kelley's written some of my most all time favorite stuff.

I just look at the pictures anyway. Unless it's a book I follow, I almost never know who the writer is. Once I know who a writer is, I've looked it up because of what I read, so my opinion is already based on the work.

Lunar Daydreamer

04-11-2005, 05:27 AM

I did used to think Kelley was a lass though...when was writing all of those fabulous Babs Batgirl stories in Legends Of The DCU (with Kevin Nowlan on inks making whomever was on pencils look just like Kevin Nowlan!). :D

Matches Malone

04-11-2005, 06:11 AM

I like to think I'm pretty gender-neutral, but there are so few female writers in comics, it's hard not to think about it. I don't have that problem at all in other types of fiction - novels, for example - where women are much better represented.

Matches Malone

04-11-2005, 06:13 AM

a woman who can write from the heart, and is totally honest, reveals a lot of dark disturbing stuff about herself, is what i like.

the women who aren't edgy or honest and don't let it all out, isn't what i like.

snarky women are better, non-snarky women - not good at all.

the genre stuff i like is stuff only guys want to write. crime stuff like sin city. it would be interesting to see a woman's version of sin city, but it ain't gonna happen.

But it does happen in other genres. Alex Kava writes some of the best "edgy" crime novels out there - it's not Ellroy or Leonard, but pretty tough nonetheless. No reason it can't happen in comics.

Personally, I thought Rose & Thorn was pretty dark and edgy, but maybe that's just me.

steeler80

04-11-2005, 08:09 AM

I really just go by whether or not I enjoy the work. If it's well-written is all that matters.

Jeff Brady

04-11-2005, 08:18 AM

I know Kelley's a bloake .. I was giving examples of two writers, male and female who were both writing strong female characters brilliantly.

Probably could have exoplained myself a little better as such ... but damn I miss reading his work on a monthly basis.

Hoping you're well! :)

LOL, okay, I understand now. Sorry about that. And I'm very well, thanks! See the Mahna Mahna thread, and enjoy!

Briareos

04-11-2005, 11:17 AM

If the story is good the story is good reguardless who wrote it. However I noticed that sometimes male writers can't write women and female writers likewise with men.

matterconsumer

04-11-2005, 05:47 PM

Do you judge a work differently if you know a woman wrote it, good or bad?

No.

Don't think that way...

Indigo Al

04-11-2005, 08:21 PM

But it does happen in other genres. Alex Kava writes some of the best "edgy" crime novels out there - it's not Ellroy or Leonard, but pretty tough nonetheless. No reason it can't happen in comics.

Personally, I thought Rose & Thorn was pretty dark and edgy, but maybe that's just me.

Agreed. Sin City is a fundamentally macho story, and I can see why a female writer wouldn't gravitate to that point of view, but, neither are they bound to write from-the-heart "chick stuff". Gail writes some rockin' slam bang superhero action without any hystrionics. She treats the BoPs like warriors. Male writers have to keep up with her!

The pool is so small though, that as Matches Malone said, it's hard not to take notice. I will say this: the few female superhero comics writers seem to rely less on pretentious manifestos typically espoused by the rock star creators ("redefining comics for the new millenium blablabla") and succeed by really getting under the skins and skulls of the characters that they write.

One writer that gets a ton of unfair flack is Devin Grayson. I just read the Catwoman: Nine Lives TPB and was reminded how much I enjoyed her take on Selina. She made her the unapologetically bad, selfish, kickass master thief she SHOULD be! Not pining after Batman, not a half-assed Robin Hood, and not a Batfamily hanger-on! (I don't read Nightwing so I don't wanna hear about it or about how poor Dick got "raped", ok?).

Louise Simonson is another. I myself was very unfair to her as I couldn't stand New Mutants post-Claremont. But with some time and perspective, I now see what a great job she did with X-Factor in the 80s. She did get at the heart of the X-Men soap opera elements (ie the Scott and Jean relationship), and she put Madelyne Pryor and her fans (me included!) in their place - ie the way she made Jean unequivocally hate Maddie and tear her down completely and utterly, like a woman whose turf (Scott) was being invaded by another woman would!

One notable misfire in my mind: Lee Mars's Zatanna miniseries. Although the art by Esteban Maroto was amazing, the story had an obvious and trite agenda of "empowerment" that worked against Zatanna, not for her.

heystacy

04-11-2005, 08:31 PM

Do you judge a work differently if you know a woman wrote it, good or bad?

No flaming, no judging anyone, I'm just looking for honest answers.

Gail

I say no. I thought about some of my favorite authors. I was a big Anne Rice fan, loved reading Elinor Lipman novels as well. I didn't think the stories would be better/worse based on gender. I do require that whatever I read entertain me. Why pay to be bored.

Crowley

04-11-2005, 08:48 PM

i usually don't care but i kinda do a "huh!" when I find out a man is writing really good and believable female dialogue and vice versa.

Joss Whedon is a good example and Amy Sherman Pallidino writes really good men (Luke)

Cam63

04-11-2005, 09:30 PM

I judge on the quality of the story, regardless of whether it was written by a sheila or a fella.

mgs

04-11-2005, 09:39 PM

Do you judge a work differently if you know a woman wrote it, good or bad?

No flaming, no judging anyone, I'm just looking for honest answers.

Gail
in comic books, yes. I admit it. i do judge differently, b/c they are a minority in the comic book field. therefore I feel that they may have a unique or at least, different perspective on certain things and subjects. for me, that's a plus, rarely, a minus.

Lunar Daydreamer

04-11-2005, 10:29 PM

LOL, okay, I understand now. Sorry about that. And I'm very well, thanks! See the Mahna Mahna thread, and enjoy!

Will do cap'n Brady sah *salutes*...*heads over to thread* ... :p

Solaris

04-12-2005, 08:48 AM

I don't care if male or female wrote it, so long as it's good.

Having said that, however, I agree w/Emperor that, if you find something that has a really good "gender" voice, and then find out later that the author/writer was of the opposite gender, they get extra kudos from me, for doing so well at seeing things from the opposite gender's p.o.v. and expressing it.

In "book" books, I particularly like David Weber as someone who's good at that. In his "Honor Harrington" series, he tackled the subject of gender discrimination towards women, in the worlds of Grayson and Masada. I really liked where he went with it... including the initial reaction of outworlders to the very *idea* of discriminating based on gender---they were flabbergasted by it. Hee. A lot of the points Weber makes in those books are from a female p.o.v., and he does very well with it, IMO. (For instance, he describes it as if he *were* a female reacting... and puts in little things that some men might miss.)

It's a bit harder, being a woman, for me to figure out if a female writer has a good "voice" for males, but if/when they do (and I can tell it), they get extra kudos from me, too. :)

TheLyle

04-12-2005, 10:29 AM

In the long run, gender doesn't make a difference to me, but in the short run it does. Overall, I subscribe to the idea that if you're dissatisfied with the way a group is represented, you should support creators from that group since good representation is more top-of-mind to them.

So, in that sense, I'm more likely to give a female creator I haven't heard of a chance. However, that only gets a first chance with me... the gender or ethnicity of a creator is the hook that can get me in the store, but the quality needs to be there to keep my interest.

Overall, I do find myself enjoying the work of female creators more often, so there's also a bit of past experience, too.

Oh, and Lt Marvel... have you read the lettercol from the latest SiP? :cool: You're so far from being alone, there.

anthony!

04-12-2005, 10:53 AM

When I was reading comics as a kid I never paid attention to who made the comics.

I think maybe Frank Miller was the first writer/artist I was very "aware" of.

When I finally started to figure out who everyone was I realized I had been regularly reading a lot of work from Claremont, Peter David, Simon Furman, Louise Simonson, Alan Grant and some guy named Morrison. Go figure.

So I guess its safe to say that I don't really care if a woman is writing or not, considering I'm barely paying attention to any of the creators in the first place.

Wrye

04-12-2005, 11:07 AM

One writer that gets a ton of unfair flack is Devin Grayson.

I totally agree. I've liked her since that Batman/Arsenal one-shot she did way back when. Too much people talking and not enough things blowing up for some folks tastes, I suppose...

Wrye

04-12-2005, 11:14 AM

As for judging the work itself, gender doesn't come into it. For someone who I haven't read before, if I'm thinking about the writer at all while I'm reading, that's a bad sign. Where gender does come in (in a small, but positive way) is that I think it helps women stand out a little better all the men out there and be that little bit more memorable. For me, it might make me take a look at a book that I might not otherwise consider. But if the book isn't a good read? Lots of other stuff out there to support.

Corrina

04-12-2005, 11:47 AM

In comics, I really don't pay attention to the gender of the writer unless I find something lacking in the writing itself.

Most of the time, though, that lack has absolutely nothing to do with the gender of the writer and instead has to do with either my taste or the talent level of the writer. Frex, I love Gail's work. I love Ed Brubakers. I think Devin Grayson is hit and miss. I think Judd Winick is hit and miss.

However, in prose, I do lean towards female writers. It's not that I dismiss male writers (love Robert B. Parker, Roger Zelazny, Conan Doyle, among many others), it's that many male writers, especially in the SF genre, do not seem to add a lot of depth to their characters.

Instead, the focus is on the cool new world they've developed or the cool gadget or having cool action sequences that move the book. I like all those things but I found what I'm most often drawn too is a great character and, lately, I've found women writers tend to be better at that.

My last three "I can't wait to get the next book and I have to order all the backstock' authors:

1. Lois McMaster Bujold
2. Jennifer Crusie
3. Laurell K. Hamilton (though I got cured of her about book 10 of Anita Blake.)

This is by no means universal. I love Heinlein--and I loved Asimov though he focused more on idea/concepts than characters. Maybe I just haven't found the right male writers. I dunno.

But just looking at my own bookshelves tells me I've got a preference in the last decade for female prose writers.

stealthwise

04-12-2005, 03:25 PM

I don't really care, though it seems to come up more often when the writing stinks. A lot of people seem to take exception to criticism when the writer is a woman, or has some sort of minority agenda. I haven't noticed it too much here, but on other sites, and in real life as well. They assume that just because I don't dig Devin Grayson's (for example) stuff that it's because she's a woman. Not so at all.

Gail Simone

02-15-2009, 04:43 AM

I miss Devin's work. I think she had a big influence on the Bat-verse especially, and it's been pretty much glossed over.

stealthwise

02-15-2009, 05:00 AM

Holy thread resurrection!

Flâneur

02-15-2009, 05:13 AM

Gail is a thread necromancer, level 5.

And it doesn't affect me much on whether a woman is writing or not, I don't see the quality of the book any differently. I have to admit though, I trust women and queer writers to be more respectful of the voice of their character than most guys, especially straight ones.

Bat-Reader

02-15-2009, 06:29 AM

I haven't read all of her works but i really liked Nightwing: mobbed up. It was great...

Though i believe a woman's place is kitchen. :p
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512RQATT9JL._SS500_.jpg

DungeonmasterJim

02-15-2009, 06:41 AM

Do you judge a work differently if you know a woman wrote it, good or bad?

No flaming, no judging anyone, I'm just looking for honest answers.

Gail

I try not to but yeah, I really believe I do.

DM Jim

ScottyQuick

02-15-2009, 07:08 AM

I miss Devin's work. I think she had a big influence on the Bat-verse especially, and it's been pretty much glossed over.

Oh, yes. I loved her run on the Titans, it focused a lot on their friendships and romantic relationships and the aftermath between the characters. She was also the first person to write Bruce as giving a damn about either Tim or Dick, pre 52.

And she wrote the best Catwoman story (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/3428932.html#cutid1) I've (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/3440255.html#cutid1) ever (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/3447951.html#cutid1) read (srsly, the second part had me go "HOLY SHI-!")

It's so sad everyone ignored her Renegade arc. Devin, come back! We miss you!

TCJohnson

02-15-2009, 07:47 AM

Do you judge a work differently if you know a woman wrote it, good or bad?

No flaming, no judging anyone, I'm just looking for honest answers.

Gail

Not normally, but then again there is G. Willow Wilson who is not just a woman, but is also a muslim writing comics for one of the big two. This is so unique that I expect a bit more of a unique voice from her.

Infra-Man

02-15-2009, 08:03 AM

No, the sex of the writer doesn't really matter to me regardless of medium. I just care about the story and the prose style.

suedenim

02-15-2009, 08:30 AM

The only recent instance where I really thought about it was reading about the "whittle babies" and all the other issues connected to that in Wonder Woman. Both because it made so much sense *and* that it seemed like something a male writer just couldn't have come up with.

Pink Bat Maxine

02-15-2009, 09:37 AM

Do you judge a work differently if you know a woman wrote it, good or bad?

No flaming, no judging anyone, I'm just looking for honest answers.

Gail

Yep. Ideally I wouldn't but I totally do.

[edit: actually I question the idea that I wouldn't ideally. Why not?]

escapegoat

02-15-2009, 09:46 AM

Makes no difference to me. As long as the person is a good writer...that's all that matters.

Pink Bat Maxine

02-15-2009, 12:45 PM

I have to say, I first picked up a Gail title...... Gail's BoP.... 'cause... hey, it had a woman's name on the credits!

It was the story with Black Canary and Catman in Hong Kong.

(I, er..... didn't care for it.....)

But what made me pick it up was, yeah.... the gender issue. When Nicola came on board, I picked it up again and ADORED IT. So I read Gail and Nicola comics still. And today, I pick them up because I love them, not because of the gender of the creators. But I'd be a liar if I denied that's what got me in the door.

A woman's name being on a book may inspire me to pick it up, but it isn't enough to keep me on board.

Also, Gail and Nicola? Two Great Tastes That Taste Great Together.

NickThompson

02-15-2009, 01:09 PM

scout1279

02-15-2009, 03:12 PM

There are times when I will read things and think, "oh, a man would never have come up with that" or "a woman would never have had her do that." Stuff like that. I don't know that I really expect the gender of the writer to affect the quality of the work.

I do tend to pick up comic books by women creators, purely because they are women.

DanCMH

02-15-2009, 04:01 PM

No influence at all. Hell, I thought Devin Grayson was a guy for years and finding out she was a she didnt make me like her Nightwing run any more or less...

Flâneur

02-15-2009, 07:27 PM

Why, out of curiosity?
The voice of the straight white male ... well, it has nothing to do with whether they write well but over time, you just mistrust them because they're mostly the ones who have bungled the women, made the gays into caricatures and denied the whole fridging pattern while they unknowingly perpetuated it.

An example is Strangers in Paradise. It was well written and I could see the writer was talented but when realised the writer was not only male but straight as well, that surprised me and I also thought well of him for making the voices work, at least from where I sat, as women. Manhunter on the other hand, while I did like how Kate and Obsidian were treated, it wasn't something where I was that surprised that they were treated that way, my main thought was solely that it was a good book. I came to the book already trusting Andreyko but I didn't go to SiP trusting in what a straight man would do. One trust was fulfilled with no expectation that it would be otherwise and one surprised me.

To boil it down I suppose ... the vast majority of people needing someone to tell them how they should write women? They're not women and for some reason, there's not that many gay men asking that question either. The people who come up and want to know how they can possibly write about queer characters? They're not gay, mostly not women either and most readers who think about these things know this.