The Endless and the rules.

[desolation/oblivion]

I just had a thought, and its about the Endless and their so-called rules. These are the Endless one of most pwoerful beings in the Universe, who is going to enforce those rules? Perhaps the Endless are agents of The Creator? Because it seems the Endless were put in the universe for nothing else except their supposed tasks. It seems as if they don't have any ultimate goal at the end, but they jsut accompany the Universe as time passes.

[Jkid099]

The Endless are, what did they call them, anthromorphic "personifications" of the Universe. Essentially, they're sentient representations of the "actions of life." They rule different realms which humanity is affected by - Dream, Death, Desire, Delirium, etc. They cannot violate the rules because it is the nature of the Universe. Unless someone alters the nature of the Universe, they are bound to most rules. (Although we did see Endless "leaving their posts" such as Destruction).

[Alan2099]

Well, it's said that there are things even the Endless don't question or look tyoo deep into. yeah, they are powerful, but there are beings above even them.

[desolation/oblivion]

Well, I know all of this, but who actually enforces these rules? Who are they to listen to?

[ironchefmike]

Well, I know all of this, but who actually enforces these rules? Who are they to listen to?

Not sure they really 'listened' to anybody. I had the perception that any 'breaking' of those rules in their respective rules led to disruptions in the reality of the universe. So if the Endless do their jobs and keep the universe humming along, they better enforce the rules themselves.

Although Destruction was able to walk off the job. Hmm.

[desolation/oblivion]

Hmm. Good point, I guess its their own "sympathy" that the reality of the Universe is kind of their own responsibility, fi you get my drift.

Yes, Destruction abandoned his realm, but in a sense his realm is still "doing his job".

[Bat-Mite]

The rules are pretty much made up by the Endless themselves, and enforced by nobody at all. Death has been known to break the rules from time to time just cause she felt like it.

[Forsaken_One]

Also, just to clarify, the Endless aren't the most powerful beings in the universe. Within they're own worlds perhaps they are very, very powerful, and they are certainly among the most powerful, and the oldest as well, but even Morphius admits that Lucifer could destroy him easily. And if Lucifer could do it it's a sure bet that the Creator could do it if he/she/it wished.

I mean, hell, the Furies managed to "defeat" Dream in his own world. Hardly the most powerful beings in the universe.

And I saw the rules as being enforced either by one another (Dream threatening Desire after the whole Doll's House incident) or by the mysterious power that we saw after Dream died, the one who gave the golem the shroud and book.

[kane]

Also, just to clarify, the Endless aren't the most powerful beings in the universe. Within they're own worlds perhaps they are very, very powerful, and they are certainly among the most powerful, and the oldest as well, but even Morphius admits that Lucifer could destroy him easily. And if Lucifer could do it it's a sure bet that the Creator could do it if he/she/it wished.

I mean, hell, the Furies managed to "defeat" Dream in his own world. Hardly the most powerful beings in the universe.


The furies killed Dream because he let them. He said he could beat them, but wanted to die.

And the thing with lucifer depends where they would fight. When Dream came to take his helmet back, lucifer let him go, because of Morpheus power coming from all the people dreams in hell.

And in his own realm i don´t know - he defeated azzazel without any effort, but lucifer is of course far more powerful than azzazel.

[desolation/oblivion]

Of course the Endless aren't the most powerful beings in the universe, but they are one of the most powerful. Specifically Destiny, Death, and Destruction stand out. The Furies had an advantage because Dream momentarily exited the Heart of the Dreaming. I say the most powerful beings in the Universe is obviously God, then both Lucifer and Michael.

[Bat-Mite]

The furies killed Dream because he let them. He said he could beat them, but wanted to die.

Not to mention that Death managed to scare them away just by being slightly pissed off at them.

[desolation/oblivion]

Not to mention that Death managed to scare them away just by being slightly pissed off at them.

Isn't Death one of the only few people who the Furies respects?

[clockwork.storybook]

The breaking of the "rules" the Endless follow doesn't necessarily mean disruption of the universe or anything. Remember Thessaly saying Dream could break the rules and kill Lyta Hall inside that circle if he wanted to, but she knew he wouldn't, because that was his personality.

[The Mirrorball Man]

If you've read The Sandman, you know that the Endless can and do break any of their self.imposed rules on a regular basis. The only one who seems to stick to the rules was poor old Morpheus, because that's the kind of guy he was, and that attitude cost him his life.

Now about the other side of the argument: there are probably quite a lot of people who could defeat any of the Endless in a fight, but the Endless are well, endless, and they will always come back, a luxury that very few other beings enjoy.

[jetter_cheeze]

The furies killed Dream because he let them. He said he could beat them, but wanted to die.

I was under the impression that he knew he broke the rules and he knew the furies would come after him because he spilt family blood. Because he was as stubborn as he was, he let them do their job becuase he stuck so close to the rules and that is what cost him his life.

[kane]

I was under the impression that he knew he broke the rules and he knew the furies would come after him because he spilt family blood. Because he was as stubborn as he was, he let them do their job becuase he stuck so close to the rules and that is what cost him his life.

As far as i understand sandman, its about Morpheus and his deathwish. Morpheus wanted to die, because he was not able to change.

[DMike]

If you've read The Sandman, you know that the Endless can and do break any of their self.imposed rules on a regular basis. The only one who seems to stick to the rules was poor old Morpheus, because that's the kind of guy he was, and that attitude cost him his life.

Actually, Destiny didn't break the rules either. If anything, he was stricter about them than Morpheus.

[stealthwise]

Also, just to clarify, the Endless aren't the most powerful beings in the universe. Within they're own worlds perhaps they are very, very powerful, and they are certainly among the most powerful, and the oldest as well, but even Morphius admits that Lucifer could destroy him easily. And if Lucifer could do it it's a sure bet that the Creator could do it if he/she/it wished.

I always found this part problematic, because Gaiman has claimed on a few occasions that he didn't wish to portray the Christian mythology as being higher than any other religion. He points out that God has the right to assign Hell to angels because God created it and rightfully owns it. The only explanations I can think of for Lucifer being able to destroy Dream, if you believe Neil, are:

1) Lucifer was in his own realm and thus, far superior to Dream, which is what Morpheus was referring to in his statement

2) Lucifer comes from outside of the universe and is therefore not a god (who are shown to be susceptible to the ravages of time and thus, less powerful than Dream)

Or perhaps a third alternative I had not considered