Pre-Crisis Questions

[LukeRed5]

I've only been a reader of DC Comics since 1989. I've never really read much pre-Crisis stuff. My questions are: How often would the charcters of various Earths show up? On a month by month basis? Would Batman meet his Earth 2 counterpart every year or so? And, what year was the multiple Earths concept created? I know it started with the two Flashes meeting, but what year was that?

[DDM]

The Earth-1 JLA & the Earth-2 JSA would have a team-up every year in the regular JLA book. Also, there would be several multiple Earth stories in DC Comics Presents (Superman book) & The Brave & the Bold (Batman book).

The multiple Earth concept first appeared in the DC Universe when the Silver Age Flash met up with his Golden Age counterpart in the classic "Flash of Two Worlds." The Golden Age characters were all from Earth-2. The Silver Age characters were originally from Earth-1.

The JSA was briefly revived in All Star Comics in the 70's when second generation characters such as Power Girl (cousin of Superman) & the Huntress (daughter of Batman & Catwoman) were introduced. The Huntress had several good back up stories in Wonder Woman in the early 80's.

[spoon_jenkins]

The two Flashes met in Flash #123 in 1961. I believe that when the multiple earths concept was created. I don't think when the Silver Age (Earth-1) were first introduced there was any mention of another reality; DC just did it.

The annual JSA-JLA team-ups that DDM mentions also sometimes included characters from other earths such as the Marvel Family from Earth-S and the Freedom Fighters from Earth-X.

[Masterman]

As stated above, they would meet every year. The 1977 one features the Legion of Superheroes. One of the more interesting ones was the 1979 JLA-JSA meeting where they had to unravel the murder mystery of Mr. Terrific.

The image of the Leaguers and Society members sitting around the JLA satellite just shooting the bull remains in my mind all of these years later. As we know those metamorphed into Crisis stories starting in 1985.

[LukeRed5]

The two Flashes met in Flash #123 in 1961. I believe that when the multiple earths concept was created. I don't think when the Silver Age (Earth-1) were first introduced there was any mention of another reality; DC just did it.

The annual JSA-JLA team-ups that DDM mentions also sometimes included characters from other earths such as the Marvel Family from Earth-S and the Freedom Fighters from Earth-X.

So Superman and Batman only met up with their counterparts in the JLA book not their own books?

[spoon_jenkins]

So Superman and Batman only met up with their counterparts in the JLA book not their own books?
I don't think they met in their own books (or if they did, it was rare). While the stuff I wrote in my first post is stuff I'm sure of, I'm reluctant to go beyond that because I'm no multiverse scholar. Some folks at the Classic Comics board (especially Cei-U, who's an Earth-2) expert, would be great people to ask. Maybe you could cross-post this there.

I'm pretty sure that the Earth-2 Batman died during the JSA's stint in Adventure Comics in the late 1970s and I think he was retired even before that, so he didn't do as many team-ups as others. The teams for the JLA-JSA team-ups were sometimes mixed and matched, so I think a lot of those events only featured one (or even zero) Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc.

[DDM]

So Superman and Batman only met up with their counterparts in the JLA book not their own books?

The Earth-2 Batman had died at one point. Therefore, the Earth-1 Batman could not team-up with the Earth-2 Batman. However, the Earth-1 Batman had several adventures with the Huntress. She considered the Earth-1 Batman her "uncle."

[LukeRed5]

The Earth-2 Batman had died at one point. Therefore, the Earth-1 Batman could not team-up with the Earth-2 Batman. However, the Earth-1 Batman had several adventures with the Huntress. She considered the Earth-1 Batman her "uncle."

That must have been interesting.

[Cei-U!]

Some folks at the Classic Comics board (especially Cei-U, who's an Earth-2) expert, would be great people to ask.

You rang?

The two Batmen never met, not even in Justice League, but the Earth-1 version worked with both the Huntress and the Earth-2 Robin in a couple of Brave and Bold issues and with the latter, briefly, in World's Finest #175.

The two Supermen did team-up outside the JLA/JSA crossovers, in Superman Family #186-87, DC Comics Presents Annual #1 and 3, and in New Adventures of Superboy #15-16 (a story which saw a time-and-dimension-displaced Boy of Steel give his Earth-2 counterpart a few pointers about his powers).

Cei-U!
I summon the call of duty!

[Wrye]

An excellent series of articles on the JLA, JSA and crisis (and other things) can be found here: But be advised, the articles go into details about the stories, so they do contain spoilers--considering the stories are all over 20 years old, though, it's hard to avoid. (http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/archives.html)

[Every Color Of Hate]

Also, the various JSA-JLA teamups through the years have been collected in a series of TP's called Crisis On Multiple Earth's. there are currently 3 volumes out, I haven't heard if DC is planning to collect the remaining teamup issues, but it's be nice if they did.

[Beta Ray Bill]

I picked up Volume 3 awhile back and enjoyed it quite a bit. My favorite was the Earth X story. Good stuff.

[Kevin Street]

I've only been a reader of DC Comics since 1989. I've never really read much pre-Crisis stuff. My questions are: How often would the charcters of various Earths show up? On a month by month basis?

It's like the others said - there were regular crossovers, and several books and features were actually set on Earth 2, like all Star Squadron and the Lois and Clark feature that ran in the pages of Superman Family. In that feature they were married, the setting was somewhere in the fifties, and Clark was the editor of the Daily Star - which conflicted totally with the regular Earth 1 stories in the rest of the book, but nobody cared about stuff like that back then. And some books were set on other, even more obscure Earths.

[Matches Malone]

That must have been interesting.

.. and a little creepy, to be honest. In B&B #184, Helena spent Christmas on E-1 with Bruce. Can you imagine spending the holidays with the parallel universe version of your dead father?

[Matches Malone]

Also, the various JSA-JLA teamups through the years have been collected in a series of TP's called Crisis On Multiple Earth's. there are currently 3 volumes out, I haven't heard if DC is planning to collect the remaining teamup issues, but it's be nice if they did.

There hasn't been any announcement by DC, but I'd be really surprised if these don't continue. The first three volumes sold very well.

[Sk8maven]

Thing is, Kev, we all KNEW they were parallel Earths and we understood the concept very well. It was the DC editors and writers who mucked things up by being unable or unwilling to keep the various characters and their worlds sorted out. There were two REAL reasons for Crisis, neither of which had anything to do with "confused fans": 1) MONEY MONEY MONEY and 2) simplifying things FOR THE DC STAFF.

Maven

[thehod]

Thing is, Kev, we all KNEW they were parallel Earths and we understood the concept very well. It was the DC editors and writers who mucked things up by being unable or unwilling to keep the various characters and their worlds sorted out. There were two REAL reasons for Crisis, neither of which had anything to do with "confused fans": 1) MONEY MONEY MONEY and 2) simplifying things FOR THE DC STAFF.

Maven

Well, that's one point of view.

Another would be that no-one but the fans were reading DC, and in order to turn a profitable business, DC knew that they had to do something to bring them back, and streamlining thier continiuty, which was putting off anyone new coming to read their books, was considered to be the easiest and most obvious way to do it. Whether their plans worked is also open for disussion. In the short term yes, in the long term.... probably not.

DC didn't expressly set out to piss off the old fans, but a dwindling fan base wasn't paying the bills.

I've always found it quite amusing that 20 years on, some comic fans are STILL in a sulk over this.

[Sk8maven]

Hod, that still means their primary reason for doing it was MONEY MONEY MONEY.

As for being "in a sulk", there are things I like BETTER about the post-Crisis universe (like the JSA really BEING the original, seminal superhero team that they were in the meta-context). But that was also the start of the Reign of the Beancounters and of using Big "Shock!" Events to goose sales - a policy that has backfired in the long run every single time, Crisis included. But the beancounters wilfully blind themselves to the long-term damage by only counting the short-term gains.

Maven

[Tom]

They're a company. Every single thing they do is to make more MONEY MONEY MONEY.

[Sk8maven]

I added some comments to my original post - you may want to check 'em out.

Maven

[Sk8maven]

They're a company. Every single thing they do is to make more MONEY MONEY MONEY.

And the biggest problem with that is they would rather make one quick buck now by destroying characters than three long-term bucks by carefully developing them.

Maven

[thehod]

Hod, that still means their primary reason for doing it was MONEY MONEY MONEY.

As for being "in a sulk", there are things I like BETTER about the post-Crisis universe (like the JSA really BEING the original, seminal superhero team that they were in the meta-context). But that was also the start of the Reign of the Beancounters and of using Big "Shock!" Events to goose sales - a policy that has backfired in the long run every single time, Crisis included. But the beancounters wilfully blind themselves to the long-term damage by only counting the short-term gains.

Maven

I wasn't speaking specfically about yourself Maven. I've got a mate who refuses to read DC soley because of the Crisis, and it was attitudes such as that that I was speaking about.

As for the money thing, well of course. DC are in the comic industry to make cash. Nothing more, nothing less. Now that may sound very capitalistic, but its a fact. They'll do whatever they feel is best to get us guys to part with our cash. If that means big events, well written stories, hot artists, T&A comics, or multiple earths, they'll do it.

It may not include the greatest amount of forward planning, but did anyone expect anything better?

Right, that's me done for today, I'm off home. Night all.

[Master Darque]

As for the money thing, well of course. DC are in the comic industry to make cash. Nothing more, nothing less. Now that may sound very capitalistic, but its a fact. They'll do whatever they feel is best to get us guys to part with our cash. If that means big events, well written stories, hot artists, T&A comics, or multiple earths, they'll do it.

Plus they fact that they've been doing this nonstop for almost 70 years is nothing short of incredible . You're always going to get these new hotshot writers and editors who remember stories from days gone by and want to fix the old fix ....it'll happen long after we're gone .

[glennsim]

.. and a little creepy, to be honest. In B&B #184, Helena spent Christmas on E-1 with Bruce. Can you imagine spending the holidays with the parallel universe version of your dead father?

I think that, given the age differences and the different life experiences, thinking of the Bruce of Earth 1 like an Uncle would probably be pretty easy. Similar background as your father, similar (but not the exact same) features, etc.