New Avengers #4 (Review & Spoilers)

[marvelboi77]

This book was awsome, anyone else get it. I think David Finch's art just keeps getting better and better. I ran into Danny Miki this weekend and I asked for a head sketch. I guess Kevin Smith is right inkers are tracers he can't draw...

[jade_nova]

The creepy thing about this issue was that Electro looks like a bald Captain America.

[static]

i am not a fan of using sex and big breasted women in thongs in comics BUT GAWD DAMN SPIDERWOMAN LOOKED SEXY AS HELL!!!

i honestly did a double take on that page she is amazing! the art was the best that i am seeing in comics today...no doubt in my mind Finch is rocking harder than anyone in the medium!

and Spidey hasnt been this funny in the reg MU in years...
Luke cage and Spidey dialouge is gonna be funny as hell....

and now........(spoiler)
















Wolverine!!!!!

[olympichero62]

See, the thing is...Id write a summary for it but I'm afraid my opinion will be biased.

[Brian R]

Possible spoilers, though I will be intentionally vague so as to not spoil any of the really funny lines for anyone. As for a full-on Review, just wait till Jake gets online, hes better at that stuff than me anyway.

I thought it was the best issue so far, because we actually see the team going out on a mission and flying in a Quinjet! Mostly, its nice to see how everyone is interacting, how they are still feeling eachother out for the moment, thats what makes team books interesting.

Some good jokes in there, as is the standard, and I have to say that Luke Cage is growing on me for one reason: he is the voice of the everyman. I know Spidey fits in that mold also, but Luke generally just says exactly whats on his mind without censoring it or worrying what others might think. Like when Jess appeared in her costume, my first thought was "Damn, she looks good", and that was followed immediately by Luke saying "Hot DAMN!", great moment I thought. The part with Luke and Electro really made me laugh too, I guess even though I find he's an odd fit, I like him being in the group because his personality is the most similar to mine.

Nice ending, great cliffhanger, cant wait for next month... if it actually comes out on time. :D

[Kaskratiski]

The book is really hitting its stride.
The interaction between Jessica Drew, Luke and Peter was fabulous and on-spot funny...Quite surprising that the book had such a nice breezy tone (not silly, but not the usual grim, gloomy stuff).

I loved the "looks like I'm a super hero again" line.
It was about time, IMO, that she returned to comics in a big way.

(yes, the art was lovely in general...But I just wished Finch gave distinct features to each person..the eyes especially look all the same , Electro was like seeing a lighter-skinned, thinner Luke...Mia really looked like Jessica with red hair...just a tiny little nitpick...)
But I definitely give the book 4 stars!

[TJEscobar]

Yea outta all the Avengers' issues the fourth one is my favorite so far. It was funny as heck. The Spider-man, spiderwoman was hilarious. SPiderman has not been this funny is so long. It was a classic issue. With Powerman, Spiderman, and WOlverine on the same team we should be guaranteed laughs for months.

[Jake V]

Should I post in here? I already started another thread, but it says "preview" in the title. I guess this thread will work for comments after people read the issue...


It's a review you want? Well, Ok.

(SPOILERS)
So, the issue starts pretty much exactly where #3 left off like five months ago, get #3 to get you up to speed with this one. Jessica Drew shows up and quickly goes upstairs to change into the spandex. Surely Tony Stark has camera all over his penthouse, he's a lucky guy because it appears as though Finch is somehow actually rendering her pheromone powers through the comic page. I'm not into comic girls for sexual gratification, I got over that when I was 13 and read Lady Death, but sheesh, Spider-Woman in costume is one of the most attractive females in comics I've ever seen this side of a Frank Cho or Adam Hughes sketch. Tony and Luke comment appropriately. We get some witty banter between the two Spider-People on the team, which echoed some of the sillier criticism I've heard about the line-up, but it comes off much funnier under Bendis' pen. If you've been commenting that Bendis is writing the MU Spidey the same as Ultimate Spidey, you need to have your head examined... or at least read the books back to back. There is a clear confidence to MU Spidey that comes across really well in New Avengers. Ultimate Spidey would NEVER talk like that in the presence of those heroes; he'd be too much in awe of them. This Spidey clearly sees himself as being on equal footing, and has a knowledge and cockiness about him that Ultimate Spidey just doesn't have.

Moving on... actually, before moving on, there was a line that Cap said that I thought was unintentionally funny. Where he says they'll deal with the Sentry AFTER the current crisis. I mean, DUH. Thanks Cap, for reading the solicits so we don't have to.

Iron Man brings up a display of all the guys who escaped, and it's a very cool shot of all these C and D grade villains using pictures obviously taken from the old Handbooks. Very clever. Iron Man pulls up the only video from the prison, where they can see a glimpse of the guy who busted the place open. Spidey recognizes the shoulder as that of Elektro. Iron Man uses some cool tech to locate his last credit card/bank account activity, and figures that he's somewhere in Boston. To get there, the team piles into the new Quinjet. Before you start freaking out about how Tony is supposed to not have the money to fund the New Avengers, he says it was in development back when the old team was around, and just like the tower, it finished without a use for it.

They arrive in Boston, and basically capture Elektro without breaking a sweat. Cage attempts to intimidate the name of who hired him or who he was supposed to break out, but Elektro just passes out instead. It's clear that Cage is gonna be the muscle of the group, or at least the tough guy. Don't know how long that will last though.

With Elektro being of no help, they go to get information from the prisoners who didn't make it out of the raft. In a pretty humorous scene, we learn that it wasn't the molecule man that Elektro busted out of the Raft like we all thought, but Karl Lykos. I know what you're thinking... Karl Lykos??!?! Freaking Sauron?? All that trouble to bust out a second rate X-Men villain? I don't think anyone was expecting this, but the plot thickens as they discover that all his SHIELD files are somehow locked. They figure they'll see what’s up in the Savage Land, where he lives, but the SHIELD outpost up there is offline. It's never supposed to be offline, so the team makes a trip to the Savage Land.

Spidey makes some jokes about the Savage Land, so it appears that Bendis did some homework and found out that he's been there before. Huh, imagine that. Iron Man makes what must be the first successful landing in the Savage Land that has ever been made, only to get the Quinjet blown up by an angry Tyrannosaurus Rex after they step out of it. The team scatters, I guess they don't want to be eaten or something, and we follow Cage and Spider-Woman into the jungle. They think they're clear so they stop to catch their breath, but Cage goes silent and stares at Spider-Woman. He’s not overcome with a manly urge or anything; he's just noticed what she hasn't yet. There are three adamantuim claws up against her throat. They've found Wolverine.



All in all, another great issue, full of some genius character interaction and really funny Spidey dialogue. This is a fun book yet it remains kinda serious. A hard balance to find, but Bendis does a good job of it. I think he's really starting to nail the characterization of the whole team now, especially Spidey, and his Cap this issue is WAY better than the one he wrote last issue. 9/10

[Brian R]

All in all, another great issue, full of some genius character interaction and really funny Spidey dialogue. This is a fun book yet it remains kinda serious. A hard balance to find, but Bendis does a good job of it. I think he's really starting to nail the characterization of the whole team now, especially Spidey, and his Cap this issue is WAY better than the one he wrote last issue. 9/10

Yeah, you can really tell the difference in characterization. With each issue, Bendis seems to gain a better grasp on how to write these people, and how the team dynamic should flow, and its turned into a great read.

[Tobias March]

Spidey makes some jokes about the Savage Land, so it appears that Bendis did some homework and found out that he's been there before. Huh, imagine that.

Sounds good, can't wait. Yeah didn't Spidey get turned into that Man-Spider thing again when he went to the Savage Land?

[Brian Cronin]

Same here as for the #3 thread.

Anyone who makes an off-topic argument is banned.

Off-topic arguments include....

"Why are you still reading the book?"

"Why are you grilling me?"

"That is just YOUR opinion!"

"This is just MY opinion!"

If you want to argue about New Avengers, you can do it.

Heck, do it for 100, 200, 300 posts.

Argue over the same points, over and over.

I don't care about that.

That's fine.

But go off-topic, and you're banned (and yes, obviously I'm talking about a temporary ban).

Otherwise, carry on.

-Brian

(And don't reply to this, okay?)

[Keith_Martineau]

Loved this issue. Loved it loved it loved it. With Amazing Spiderman starting to feel stale I'm probably gonna drop it, but thats okay cause Spidey is fun up here in New Avengers.
I am loving the team dynamics that are building. But also with each issue, my feeling that they're doing "Marvel Authority" is reinforced. All they lack is the ability to teleport anywhere on a whim.
Cage is awesome with his attitude towards all the sillier super-hero elements that were brought up.

I'm also getting a BIG sense of continuity out of this. Sauron's file has been locked? Could that have anything to do with his involvement in Weapon X? Finding Wolverine in the Savage Land, which was the last place we saw him in Uncanny X-Men. If this does involve Weapon X, that could easily provide a logical reason for Wolverine to join the Avengers. Good stuff.

Still, I'm frustrated at the lack of Sentry action. Can't wait for that.

[KristyJo]

This was a great issue. You know, before #1, I had never read anything with Luke Cage before, and I just think he's great. He seems so real, and I love how he's always asking questions. I really loved the part where he said he had to go lie down cuz too much was going on -- I was thinking the exact same thing. I think Spiderwoman is great too, such a strong female character, she's beautiful and she's smart and she's been successful on her own with SHEILD and she just seems so together. I think that's why I like this team, that they are all established in their own lives and they're coming together and I just love the interaction. And I'm very excited to see Wolverine next issue. This is one of my favorite series right now, and I really never thought that it would be.

I think the art is getting better, or maybe it's just growing on me. But now that they're all in costume, the fact that they all kind of have the same facial features isn't so up in my face so I can tell who everyone is and I can admire all the other hard work Finch has to do. So many panels, and some are so tiny and he still puts so much detail in them.

The story is interesting, the art is getting better, Bendis is writing some great dialogue that's both amusing and yet real and I am so glad that I'm picking this up. It's been a great ride.

[TheMuertoCorpse]

The book is getting better and better indeed.
Was the : " I would recognize that blurry shoulder anywhere!" line funny or what?
I can't wait for two things:
Sentry In Action
Spider-Woman in action

[Jared_Humpherys]

Liked the issue, and especially the dialogue, though the decompression and delays are beginning to try my patience. Next issue looks real good, though, and I'm glad Bendis at least partially acknowledged the Sentry in this issue. But when the heck is our mystery avenger gonna show? On a related note, I have a new, off-the-wall theory about who the mystery Avenger could be(although I still mostly believe it's Daredevil) :

Northstar! After all, the outfit is currently green and yellow(Hydra colors), and the old design with the bubble head wasn't too far removed from his Chuck Austen costume. Now, I know Jean-Paul doen't normally use nunchucks, but with the Hydra reprogramming and all, it's possible. It's so zany, it just might be true!

*dodges tomatoes*

[protege]

This was a great issue. You know, before #1, I had never read anything with Luke Cage before, and I just think he's great. He seems so real, and I love how he's always asking questions. I really loved the part where he said he had to go lie down cuz too much was going on -- I was thinking the exact same thing. I think Spiderwoman is great too, such a strong female character, she's beautiful and she's smart and she's been successful on her own with SHEILD and she just seems so together. I think that's why I like this team, that they are all established in their own lives and they're coming together and I just love the interaction. And I'm very excited to see Wolverine next issue. This is one of my favorite series right now, and I really never thought that it would be.

I think the art is getting better, or maybe it's just growing on me. But now that they're all in costume, the fact that they all kind of have the same facial features isn't so up in my face so I can tell who everyone is and I can admire all the other hard work Finch has to do. So many panels, and some are so tiny and he still puts so much detail in them.

The story is interesting, the art is getting better, Bendis is writing some great dialogue that's both amusing and yet real and I am so glad that I'm picking this up. It's been a great ride.
I thought Spider man was the one who said that. it's kind of hard to tell who's saying what at times, when Bendis seems to write each of the characters the same way.

[CaptMagellan]

I loved this issue. I've liked the series so far but this issue was a whole lot of fun.

Pete and Luke... a buddy movie waiting to happen.

[jade_nova]

Whether you love him or hate him at least Bendis is giving the unemployed characters work. Finding out who was broken out and who broke him out seemed to have been done too fast. I counted about twenty-three escaped prisoners can we get a list of who they are because I only recognize the Grey Gargoyle and any idea who the other nineteen escapees are.

[Master Darque]

BUT GAWD DAMN SPIDERWOMAN LOOKED SEXY AS HELL!!!

HEAR HEAR !!

What I'd like to see ...in NA or in Spidey's title , is a fellow Avenger or 2 talking either TO Spidey or ABOUT Spidey .... commenting on how they'd have never figgered him to be Parker ...or a person like Parker . Or cracking up that Pete works for his biggest detractor , Jonah . Luke Cage's gal Jessica will DIE laughing when she finds out . When it comes down to it , the only people that knew before New Avengers were DD and Wolvie ....everyone else's IDs are pretty much open . I think Jess Drew's identity as Spider-Woman was the only ID not publicly known .

I also can't wait to see Pete , Aunt May and MJ in the Avengers new digs .... Spidey SO deserves the honor of being an Avenger....it's been a LONG time coming ....

[static]

yeah to all those who thought spidey couldnt be on a team i say -"READ THIS BOOK!" he is the perfect team wise ass! his exchanges with Cage and in the future Wolverine are gonna be awesome! my fav was the line when cap says to the SHIELD agent that he has full champion license and spidey says " Oh no. I am NOT joining the Champions." :) :) :)

i gotta say this book is blowing me away each month...

as far as the escapees ..

i see Slug, mr fear, blackout, zzakkk, typhoid mary, grey gargoyle, cobra, vermin, armadillo, a blood brother, crusader, the controller, jigsaw mandrill, scarcrow, a brother grim,
thats 16 of 42 shown on the pages...

[SabrinaMorrell]

Question for the experts...We know that Typhoid Mary was an escapee.
When Spider-Woman goes to Ryker's Island and does that thing with the donuts (brilliant AND funny!), who did she refer to when she said "gentlemen...and lady ?
I don't recall seeing any woman besides Mary in that big splash of the villains facing Electro, and I don't recall reading the name of any other villainess on the many listings that I found online.
then again, I might have missed it or my memory is bad...
Thanks!

[Satana Hellstrom]

I think that other female was Vapor, from the U-foes...


This issue is definitely my favorite so far.

What's best about it in my opinion is the characterizations...you can sense these people are not 100 % in their comfort zone yet, but they are trying their darn best to do the right thing.

Bendis was able to balance humour and seriousness in a nice package, without making the book *Ha-Ha* silly...the interplay between Jessica Drew, Luke Cage and Peter Parker brought a smile to my face.
The art was solid and I have to agree that Jessica looked gorgeous, and she came across as strong and capable...she is a great underused character.

Many people are missing on a great yarn, don't let the Bendis name scare you away...this book is miles away from Disassembled, which IMO was a letdown.
New Avengers is a fantastic read.

[KristyJo]

I thought Spider man was the one who said that. it's kind of hard to tell who's saying what at times, when Bendis seems to write each of the characters the same way.

Maybe it was Spiderman... You're right, it was kind of hard to follow... Little panels, lots going on everywhere. But the look on Luke's face when it was said just seemed to perfectly match it, so I took for granted it was him talking. But maybe it wasn't. It does sound more like something Peter would say now that I think about it.

[DeadMuskrat]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned on how well this synchs up with Uncanny X-men right now. Wolverine goes missing in the Savage land in Uncanny. Avengers head to Savageland and run into Wolverine.

I guess I'm just really surprised at how well they did that.

[moebius]

Maybe it was Spiderman... You're right, it was kind of hard to follow... Little panels, lots going on everywhere. But the look on Luke's face when it was said just seemed to perfectly match it, so I took for granted it was him talking. But maybe it wasn't. It does sound more like something Peter would say now that I think about it.


It was definitely Peter.

If you look closely, you'll see that the entire arc is being told from the perspectives of Spider-Man and Captain America, with Jess Drew coming in a distant third. Every "scene" has involved one of the three, with the order being Spidey, Cap, and Jess. When the team gets together, Spider-Man acts as the "narrator." He gets both the most lines and is the protaganist driving forward the narrative, either by asking questions or answering them.

It was a strong issue, and I think it was much less decompressed than the last one. Peter was a little Jokey. I don't mind 5 or 6 really smarmy lines in an issue...in fact from Spider-Man in a team book I expect them...but I counted upwards of 20...and it made him come off a little annoying ("Seat belts" "Yeah, that'll help").

[BlackKnight]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned on how well this synchs up with Uncanny X-men right now. Wolverine goes missing in the Savage land in Uncanny. Avengers head to Savageland and run into Wolverine.

I guess I'm just really surprised at how well they did that.

I have not read the book, but noticed that in the synopsis, and was totally amazed at how well the synched that, although it makes me wonder where enemy of the state fits in.

[pureclint]

Wow a BK compliment! ANd I agree BK I to am curious of when EotS fits in, perhaps after they get back from the Savage Land?

[moebius]

I have not read the book, but noticed that in the synopsis, and was totally amazed at how well the synched that, although it makes me wonder where enemy of the state fits in.

I'm pretty sure Enemy of the State happens after the current Savage Land arc in Uncanny, since there's no mention of Logan killing Northstar and going berserk (Psylocke's just absent in Enemy). I think Enemy will be dealt with after the Savage arc in Uncanny, and Logan might go "find himself in the Savage Land." I think the rest of it is just a coincidence.

[tricksterpup]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned on how well this synchs up with Uncanny X-men right now. Wolverine goes missing in the Savage land in Uncanny. Avengers head to Savageland and run into Wolverine.

I guess I'm just really surprised at how well they did that.
If this turns out to be a cross over, story wise, that would be cool.

[BlackKnight]

I'm pretty sure Enemy of the State happens after the current Savage Land arc in Uncanny, since there's no mention of Logan killing Northstar and going berserk (Psylocke's just absent in Enemy). I think Enemy will be dealt with after the Savage arc in Uncanny, and Logan might go "find himself in the Savage Land." I think the rest of it is just a coincidence.

That is interesting, it would explain Caps and Iron Man's involvement in EOTS, what is really interesting is how will this pan out with wolverine after EOTS with the Avengers and X-Men?

[BlackKnight]

Wow a BK compliment! ANd I agree BK I to am curious of when EotS fits in, perhaps after they get back from the Savage Land?

Yea well stay tuned, I don't get my copy of the book until friday. :D

[Giant Guy]

Spoiler Space because I am sensitive like that...











.. Like everyone I liked the Luke Cage Spidey Dialogue. Great stuff, best part though was when Spidey webbed up Cage's hands so Cage could pound on Electro. Then Cage can't get the webbing off. Great stuff. Can't wait for more of it.

Does anyone know what the difference in strength level for Spidey and Cage is? I always assumed Spidey was the stronger of the 2, but after this maybe not. Or is Cage just more ruthless?

Spider-Woman = Yowza!!!

[The Fury]

OK, I really liked this issue, a lot more than the previous ones.

Conversations between Spider-woman and Spider-man were good. Electro's purpose for doing it because of a girl, nice. Cage stuck with webbing glove for an hour, nice. Spider-man's joke about his clones.

I am thinking like some others here about a connection to Uncanny X-men at the moment, which is good. I'm wondering if Sauron may appear in Uncanny as well, but why someone paid Eletro to free him? I dunno. Maybe the person responisble for creating those Savage Land super-dino's?

[StoneGold]

I think Thunderbolts is the key to figuring out the timeline. All of Tbolts takes place before New Avengers. EOTS synchs up with Tbolts at two points, two points which haven't actually happened yet in the Wolverine book. As EOTS and the following Agent of SHIELD arc are both referenced in Tbolts, which is before NA, what's going on now is significantly after EOTS.

Oh, and was I the only one sensing a little bit of early Giffen/Dematties JLI interplay? Granted, it's mostly because of Spider-Man, and I am talking early, before the book decided it wanted to be more funny, but still.

[Keith_Martineau]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned on how well this synchs up with Uncanny X-men right now. Wolverine goes missing in the Savage land in Uncanny. Avengers head to Savageland and run into Wolverine.

I guess I'm just really surprised at how well they did that.

I mentioned it.
:D

[Spiderchick1974]

Spoiler Space because I am sensitive like that...











.. Like everyone I liked the Luke Cage Spidey Dialogue. Great stuff, best part though was when Spidey webbed up Cage's hands so Cage could pound on Electro. Then Cage can't get the webbing off. Great stuff. Can't wait for more of it.

Does anyone know what the difference in strength level for Spidey and Cage is? I always assumed Spidey was the stronger of the 2, but after this maybe not. Or is Cage just more ruthless?

Spider-Woman = Yowza!!!

It has been pretty well established that Luke Cage is way stronger and durable than Spidey, without a question...

[pureclint]

Actually no it has not, for most of his existence Luke was a lot weaker then Spider-man. WE have been over this before and really the best guess is they are now both about the same it is his Unbreakable skin that makes Luke SEEM stronger (ie he is more Dense).

He is also a more menacing presence then Spidey.

[Satana Hellstrom]

Actually no it has not, for most of his existence Luke was a lot weaker then Spider-man. WE have been over this before and really the best guess is they are now both about the same

.
Not according to the Marvel Handbooks.
Peter Parker is listed as a "member" of the ten ton club while Luke is listed as 25 ton.
It is not I, it is Marvel who says it, so take your complaints to them :p (j/k)

[BlackKnight]

Not according to the Marvel Handbooks.
Peter Parker is listed as a "member" of the ten ton club while Luke is listed as 25 ton.
It is not I, it is Marvel who says it, so take your complaints to them :p (j/k)

Marvel had changed that so many times I can't count... :rolleyes:

[crackin' skrulls]

question for ya'll, Ms Drew knows the shield file concerning Lykos is (locked from the inside), but she keeps the info to herself. also, my gut is telling me there was a bigger need for her to stop at home than picking up the Krispe Kremes...

[pureclint]

Not according to the Marvel Handbooks.
Peter Parker is listed as a "member" of the ten ton club while Luke is listed as 25 ton.
It is not I, it is Marvel who says it, so take your complaints to them :p (j/k)


Which marvel Handbooks? The old GthMU he was lited at like 1 ton I think and currently on the website both Sipderman and Luke are listed at the same strength level.

Will S and me went around and around on this picking out all these little tid bits from the past. So I am curious where you read the 25 ton figure?



Yeah Crackin why would she have to go hom to get Donouts?

[Spiderchick1974]

question for ya'll, Ms Drew knows the shield file concerning Lykos is (locked from the inside), but she keeps the info to herself. also, my gut is telling me there was a bigger need for her to stop at home than picking up the Krispe Kremes...

Interesting...

[1HELLBOY]

Loved everything about this issue, art, story, hilarious dialogue,(and Spider-Woman :D ) and of course the introduction of my ALL TIME FAVORITE MARVEL CHARACTER(Wolverine!!! :evilsmile ) can't wait till the next issue, it's gonna freakin rock

it could not have gotten any cooler than that last page of a close up of Jessica's face and Wolverine in the shadows behind her, claws at her throat :D :D

[Prowler]

What happened to Nick Fury?

[Master Darque]

Not according to the Marvel Handbooks.Peter Parker is listed as a "member" of the ten ton club while Luke is listed as 25 ton.
It is not I, it is Marvel who says it, so take your complaints to them

I gotta see that to believe it . I mean sure , if you're gonna name a guy Power Man , make him powerful .... but I have never seen it suggested that Luke was stronger than Spidey . 25 tons ? That puts him up there with Colossus at least ....and I don't see that . I thnk the 1 ton is nearer to being correct for Luke Cage ....definitely not 10 !

I must investigate .....

[The Fury]

25 tons ? That puts him up there with Colossus at least ....and I don't see that . I thnk the 1 ton is nearer to being correct for Luke Cage ....definitely not 10 !

I must investigate .....
Colossus is Class 75.


What happened to Nick Fury?
Good question. On vacation maybe?

[Hipnautik]

Great issue.

Luke getting his hands wrapped in webbing, and saying, "Open the bubble".

How cool was that? ;)

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

I don't exactly know what the correct term is, ten class or ten ton or what, but I remember also reading that Spiderman was 10 and Luke was 25...(ton ,class, I don't know, but those were the numbers I always saw next to the characters...)

[Ken Ashcroft]

Colossus is Class 75.



I thought he was Class 100?

[protege]

What happened to Nick Fury?
I'm still waiting to find out why Cap was so down on Fury with Spider Woman....

[Jake V]

Must have something to do with secret war. So, I'm sure we'll find out next year.

:D

[marvelboi77]

I landed the original art to New Avengers #4 pg 5 where Spider-Woman is walking down the stairs, I can't wait to get it.

[MrBiggs7]

Sure this was posted already but Spiderwoman was looking hot!

That is all.

[The Shadow]

Best issue so far!

The writing was great, the characterization was bang on and it was FUN!!!!!! The continuity with the X-Men and Wolverine has been great (and surprising!) and I hope Marvel keeps it up on the whole. The art is much better as well... it makes me wonder how quickly Disassembled was fired off... Drew looks great and I can't wait to see her in action and the Sentry missing is KILLING ME!

Bendis is doing a helluva job getting the ball rolling and keeping people interested!

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

I landed the original art to New Avengers #4 pg 5 where Spider-Woman is walking down the stairs, I can't wait to get it.

No u didn'!!!!!!

Seriously???
Cool!

[jade_nova]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned on how well this synchs up with Uncanny X-men right now. Wolverine goes missing in the Savage land in Uncanny. Avengers head to Savageland and run into Wolverine.

I guess I'm just really surprised at how well they did that.

I really didn't notice Wolverine disappearing in Uncanny X-Men. I do know that he shows up at some Antartic colony in X-Men, maybe he wandered out of the Savage Land in Uncanny and went there.

[Doom Hammer]

This issue entertained me. Greatly.

It had everything.

It had Bendis' very best signature snappy clever dialogue.

It had the team going into action.

It had the Savage Land. And Wolverine.

It had Spider-angst, and Jessica Drew in costume.

And, again, it was hilarious.

Very, very entertaining indeed.

[Tobias March]

Twas indeed good.

But what's up with Sauron? Why is he important? And why do I get the feeling, one I've had since Alias, Ka-Zar is about to show up (his Bendis scene with Jessica was hilarious).

[Neolucifer]

wow ...wow that issue was excellent !!! I was expecting the talking heads syndrome with no action (even if done in a funny way) yet i was quite wrong !!
Hope the future issues keep that kind of "accelerated" pacing and level of fun .

[Melissa]

Blah-blah talking talking.

Blah-blah Donut bribery.

Blah-blah Legion of Marvel Knights take a ride in a quinjet.

Blah-blah what the hell is wrong with Spider-Man? Is he twelve again? Two crappy jokes per panel? What?

Blah-blah one MORE book the army of Wolverine clones appears in.


Oh Yeah, REAL awesome...

[Beatnikman]

Yep. This was definitely a big step in the right direction. One thing I particularly dug was how easily Electro was taken care of. Every once in a while, it's nice to see something like that, where the heroes are prepared and capable and handle things quickly and relatively quietly. Very nice work from Bendis.

Finch is solid. He definitely has strengths and weaknesses, but he's solid. And I dig his Ditko-esque Spidey.

I also really liked the Quinjet redesign. It's about time those got an upgrade. And Cap and Tony's conversation about it was classic.

[Neolucifer]

mm not sure if my last post was removed or anything . If so i'll just say that i was rather joking than anything else . Bah i dont mind anyway .

I'll agree that Spidey seems a bit high , with all those jokes every panels :D . But i like it that way , anyway . The guy dont even seems to joke anymore in his own Big book , so imo it doesnt hurt , especially when well done , like in the present case

[Melissa]

Oh, and I hate - HATE HATE HATE the one-panel-copied-to-become-four-panels trick. God, how I hate it. Draw another damn picture, ok?

Better yet, put the dialogue into the one panel like they did back in the day, instead of this:

Panel One: Tony Stark, looking off-camera to the right.
STARK: Hi Cap

Panel Two: Captain America, looking off-camera to the left.
CAP: Hi, Tony

Panel Three: Photoshop panel One. No Dialogue.

Panel Four: Photoshop Panel Two.
CAP: ....

Panel Five: Photoshop Panel One
STARK: I....

Panel Six: Photoshop Panel Two (yes, again)
CAP: What's the matter Tony?

Panel Seven: Widescreen. Photoshop Panels One and Two together into one pic, both guys looking at each other.
STARK: They were out of cream, Cap. Hope Milk in your coffee's ok....

[Brian R]

Oh, and I hate - HATE HATE HATE the one-panel-copied-to-become-four-panels trick. God, how I hate it. Draw another damn picture, ok?

Better yet, put the dialogue into the one panel like they did back in the day, instead of this:

Panel One: Tony Stark, looking off-camera to the right.
STARK: Hi Cap

Panel Two: Captain America, looking off-camera to the left.
CAP: Hi, Tony

Panel Three: Photoshop panel One. No Dialogue.

Panel Four: Photoshop Panel Two.
CAP: ....

Panel Five: Photoshop Panel One
STARK: I....

Panel Six: Photoshop Panel Two (yes, again)
CAP: What's the matter Tony?

Panel Seven: Widescreen. Photoshop Panels One and Two together into one pic, both guys looking at each other.
STARK: They were out of cream, Cap. Hope Milk in your coffee's ok....


I am not a fan of Bendis' dialogue style, but that is a gross exaggeration.

Oh, btw, there are two ex-MK members on the team, but there are also two long-time Avengers, as well as two others who have history with them(Cage and Drew), so calling them the Legion of Marvel Knights is rather silly. By that same logic, the Astonishing X-Men cast could be called the A-Men, since both Beast and Wolvie were/are Avengers.

[marvelboi77]

Oh, and I hate - HATE HATE HATE the one-panel-copied-to-become-four-panels trick. God, how I hate it. Draw another damn picture, ok?

Better yet, put the dialogue into the one panel like they did back in the day, instead of this:

Panel One: Tony Stark, looking off-camera to the right.
STARK: Hi Cap

Panel Two: Captain America, looking off-camera to the left.
CAP: Hi, Tony

Panel Three: Photoshop panel One. No Dialogue.

Panel Four: Photoshop Panel Two.
CAP: ....

Panel Five: Photoshop Panel One
STARK: I....

Panel Six: Photoshop Panel Two (yes, again)
CAP: What's the matter Tony?

Panel Seven: Widescreen. Photoshop Panels One and Two together into one pic, both guys looking at each other.
STARK: They were out of cream, Cap. Hope Milk in your coffee's ok....
Maybe somone should buy an extra copy of Birds of Prey instead of New Avengers....

Off topic what did you think of Huntress leaving. Plus do you like Oracles Braniac surf the web get up, I think it's cool.

[handOFfate]

Great issue. Love the dialogue, the story, and the art. My only complaint is that Spidey is joking around a little too much. I mean, he was hilarious in places, but he was also annoying in others. On the plus side, his interaction with Cage is pure gold. Hope to see more of this in the future.
And although I can't believe im saying this, Spider-woman is hot!

[Will.S]

I also really liked the Quinjet redesign. It's about time those got an upgrade.
It's too bad it was destroyed already :( Thankfully from what Tony said, they have 3 more prototypes or so to go.

Awesome issue. Spidey was great, especially the part where he mentions to Luke what he does to Electro usually in a passive fashion and what happens afterwards, HILARIOUS. It's nice to see others seek Spiderman's advice when it's a rogue from his villain gallery and when he tells them about the Savage Land from his experience there. I agree with Jake V, I don't see any of the Ultimate character in this issue at all (nor did I in the past issues).

Jessica and Luke are fun and cool at the same time. They have distinctive personalities and their experiences lend very well to the Avengers, this group has a more intimidating feel to them even without Sentry and the other members. BTW pureclint and I did discuss the whole Luke Cage power level among other members and we basically thought and agreed that Luke was on par with Spiderman strength wise but since he has the unbreakable skin going for him, he can dish out as much as he can take which pushes up his power level a bit more.

BUT the more recent Marvel Knights 2005 handook says that his strength is listed as 4 on the strength bar which is according to the power ratings ranges from 800 lbs-25 ton (or more specifically 25 tons) so he is indeed more powerful than Spiderman and would be the natural pure powerhouse of this group thus far excluding Sentry and Iron Man. He certainly jumped in strength over the years....but he has always been shown to be very capable with his powers especially in the John Ostrander Heroes for Hire run and his appearances over the years.

Bendis also delivers on Tony's technological uses (in a past interview he said he wanted to show off more tech from the armor) by showing off some nifty devices that Iron Man/Tony Stark utilizes. The Iron Man armor always makes for a cool visual especially in this badass version by Finch, he draws a fantastic Spidey and Iron Man and other than Silver Centurion IM where he always looks pissed off, the armor never looked better. Brian writes Captain America much better this issue by having him as the team's straight arrow without sounding too much like Bendis himself. Cap obviously knows what he's doing and what the team's agenda should be and so far he's keeping this team gelled together very well.

I really enjoyed the banter between the S.H.I.E.L.D agent and crew, Tony and Cap have always dealt with outside interference from the gov't and outside forces so it's great to see them totally own her. The only person I wanted to see alot more of was the Sentry, obviously he'll be dealt with later but he and the mystery guy just need to complete to whole team so that we can see more fun interaction and team dynamics.

I was also thinking "Why the hell did they pick up Sauron when Molecule Man and more powerful people were around?" but that's another mystery sub-plot that keeps the title interesting.

Lastly the Savage land action was great. Iron Man should be able to knock that T-Rex out in a few seconds and alot of these Avengers are very capable so this should be fun to see play out within the next issue, especially with the debut that has most Wolverine fans/detractors biting their nails to see how well he is accepted and incorperated into the Avengers.

Bendis was on the ball this issue and if you want to go for the error thing, he did flub on the establishment of the Stark Tower as a poster said. Last issue was in 2005 where in this one it's 2004. Peter also seemed to have healed his arm pretty quick but other than that there aren't any errors that I can point out and I'm not going to be nitpicky enough to say the issue suffered because of these because those errors had no bearing on the issue at all.

David Finch impressed the hell out of me with all the detail put into this issue. I'm still not sure if the delay was exactly warranted since he does re-use panels but overall it's excellent work. Hopefully the whole page losing incident won't happen again and issue #5 will arrive on time but I'm not holding out too much hope on that one :p

Anyway, this issue was awesome and the New Avengers is a must read every month.

9 out of a freakin 10

[olympichero62]

See, yeah thats what I was gonna say but didn't know how due to spasms and convulsions. I have Never laughed so hard while reading a comic book in my entire life. Ever.

[Kistler]

Well, Spidey has mentioned a few times before that while he's not even close to the level of Blade or Wolverine, he does heal a couple times faster than a normal guy. Plus, it's not like he's not used to fighting when he's not up to par (his famous battle with Osborn on the Brooklyn Bridge was during when he had the flu, IIRC).

I enjoy Spidey's banter here. Yes, it seems just a TAD more talkative than usual, but personally I feel like that's just Spidey dealing with the fact that he's finally an Avenger. The brief mission he was on before with the old team fighting Nebula, they talked about how Spidey really felt that, while he was a good hero in his own right, he just didn't have what it took to be on a team and deal with the level of menaces the Avengers made a career out of fighting. The guy's taking orders from Captain America, just been given the keys to a Penthouse HQ by Tony Stark and is faced with the fact that there are 42 nasties (that's about 4 or 5 times the number of baddies he had to face durng Maximum Carnage, a very bloody affair) running around NYC who were busted out by one of HIS prime enemies AND he's going back to a jungle where the first time he visited he had to fight a GIANT named Gog (Kraven the Hunter's pet, not the Superman villain) and the second time he went and the Angel were mutated into animal-men. Doesn't it make sense he'd be a little unsure of himself and thus would crank up the jokes a few notches just to keep himself sane? THat's usually how he deals with stuff.

And BTW, I think it goes without saying how much I appreciate the continuity of Spidey referencing his past with Lykos and the Savage Land and the fact that Wolvie's there while he's missing in Uncanny. GREAT stuff.

[Will.S]

Well, Spidey has mentioned a few times before that while he's not even close to the level of Blade or Wolverine, he does heal a couple times faster than a normal guy. Plus, it's not like he's not used to fighting when he's not up to par (his famous battle with Osborn on the Brooklyn Bridge was during when he had the flu, IIRC).
Yeah, I don't have a problem accepting Spiderman's more rapid healing since he's been through it all. It's just something people might take a shot at since the injury looked pretty severe.

And BTW, I think it goes without saying how much I appreciate the continuity of Spidey referencing his past with Lykos and the Savage Land and the fact that Wolvie's there while he's missing in Uncanny. GREAT stuff.
The Savage Land thing is pretty cool but I'm still a bit iffy on it, we'll have to wait until the next Uncanny issue to be sure, just in case he comes to their rescue unexpectedly and throws this out of whack but if he remains missing there and shows up in NA resulting from that then it's very cool. I wonder why he decided to go into hiding for so long and appear here though (besides the obvious "duh" answer of joining the NA).

[Satana Hellstrom]

Blah-blah talking talking.

Blah-blah Donut bribery.

Blah-blah Legion of Marvel Knights take a ride in a quinjet.

Blah-blah what the hell is wrong with Spider-Man? Is he twelve again? Two crappy jokes per panel? What?

Blah-blah one MORE book the army of Wolverine clones appears in.


Oh Yeah, REAL awesome...

I think it was an excellent issue. :)

[Melissa]

I am not a fan of Bendis' dialogue style, but that is a gross exaggeration. Yes, deliberately so to make a point. That you missed it shows it's not SO exaggerated.

Oh, btw, there are two ex-MK members on the team, but there are also two long-time Avengers, as well as two others who have history with them(Cage and Drew), so calling them the Legion of Marvel Knights is rather silly. By that same logic, the Astonishing X-Men cast could be called the A-Men, since both Beast and Wolvie were/are Avengers.

You seem to be applying an interestingly elastic timescale here.

The Wolverine Clone Army hasn't yet joined this team (although we might assume he will next issue) and, if you're going to include him, why not Daredevil, who will also join the team in the future - making it three Marvel Knights, yes??

Can we really count Wolverine as an X-Man or Avenger (or member of the Fantastic Four) anymore? The WCA seems to be in every Marvel book these days.

Anyways, it ain't an argument. If you enjoyed it, more power to you. Me, I'll just wait about 18 months until they return the real Avengers to us... along with an Avengers writer... and a guy who draws every panel...

[Satana Hellstrom]

. Me, I'll just wait about 18 months until they return the real Avengers to us... along with an Avengers writer... and a guy who draws every panel...

Sit down and get comfy.
Those "18 months" are gonna be looong...



I love these fake Avengers.
The most fun I have had reading the title since the "real" ones were written by Roger Stern.

[west3man]

I enjoyed seeing Spider-Woman (the original) in-costume, ON THE COVER. Pretty cool.

I'm not too fond of the series, at the moment, but there are some elements I dig. If I keep digging them, then I'll get the hardcover when/if it comes out.

[protege]

so about the quinjet- the new ones just hover? don't touch the ground?

[Neolucifer]

Yes, deliberately so to make a point. That you missed it shows it's not SO exaggerated.

Of course it is THAT exagerated , you are giving us the usual "Cap/replace by anyone : Hey.... Spidey: I...." silly supposed Bendis dialogue , his detractors like to refer to , when so far it hasnt happened . No lets say it indeed ever happened in NA , now the prob is that you precisely picked the exact issue where its no longer happening and things are starting to move :D .


Me, I'll just wait about 18 months until they return the real Avengers to us... along with an Avengers writer... and a guy who draws every panel...

Mmm in 18 months i see that team staying around , even if possibly having a few more members and different creative team behind . People outside of us Internet fanboys are already getting used to the change and liking it :D .There isnt so much of a "give us the old avengers" outcry as some vocal people say .

[UncleBob]

"Really? I have a clone."

Friggin' Priceless!

[Master Darque]

There isnt so much of a "give us the old avengers" outcry as some vocal people say .

I don't necessarily believe that is true , unless you show that with statistics . Off and on , I've always been a fan of the old Avengers . Now to me , Avengers Disassembled was an exciting storyline , that alot of fans didn't like . Well hell , if this was real life it coulda happened and alot of people wouldn't have liked it .
To me , NEW Avengers is an exciting storyline with a great new team and spin . I'm willing to give it a go , sure . I want to see where it leads . Do I think that eventually the Avengers of old will be back ? Of course . Just like I knew that Hal would be back , Supes would be back , Bruce would take the mantle back , Jean would be back .....

[BlackKnight]

Of course it is THAT exagerated , you are giving us the usual "Cap/replace by anyone : Hey.... Spidey: I...." silly supposed Bendis dialogue , his detractors like to refer to , when so far it hasnt happened . No lets say it indeed ever happened in NA , now the prob is that you precisely picked the exact issue where its no longer happening and things are starting to move :D .




Mmm in 18 months i see that team staying around , even if possibly having a few more members and different creative team behind . People outside of us Internet fanboys are already getting used to the change and liking it :D .There isnt so much of a "give us the old avengers" outcry as some vocal people say .

I don't want to start a fight, but please unless you took a servey of people outside the internet fanboy, don't make swiping comments.. You really don't know what people are thinking. :D

Also I would bet, in 18 months that Wolverine will not be on the team. Just a guess.

[Knightosis]

I thought Luke was stronger than 25 tons? For good's sake didn't he stand
up to Wonder Man at one time?!

[pureclint]

To bad he is not even 25 tons. Untill I can see proof I am going with what the Marvel Website/Games and old data we found 10 -15 ton range at best.

And no people saying "I remember reading it" is not proof, especially with out providing any sources.

[SybaritaCybernetico]

More Marvel Goodness!

What a great read...uncharacteristically lighthearted and yet firmly planted in the realm of serious action/adventure.

Luke Cage, Spider-Woman and Peter's interchange: Priceless indeed.

Sauron?
Never saw that coming, seriously, and I can't wait to see how this is resolved.

All in all, Bendis has accomplished to get the rythyms of each character right...his dialogue nailed every single one and the plot went along briskly.
THis keeps getting better, without a question.

That last page was great!

[Neolucifer]

I don't want to start a fight, but please unless you took a servey of people outside the internet fanboy, don't make swiping comments.. You really don't know what people are thinking.

Well i doubt i'm really the one doing such swiping comments . i'm not aiming at anyone around here , but you can see plenty comments on the net that could make you believe that everyone long for the old avengers , and hate NA . When its not true .

There are people that like NA despite what the "bashing side" of internet shows , and only the future will tell if the lovers outnumbers the haters or the opposite (maybe its even 50/50) .

What i'm saying still hold true , we do see people that werent fan of the idea at first , turning into fans , and getting used to that team , and we do see that despite the outcries of the most vocal internet people , there are NA fans so far .

[BlackKnight]

Well i doubt i'm really the one doing such swiping comments . i'm not aiming at anyone around here , but you can see plenty comments on the net that could make you believe that everyone long for the old avengers , and hate NA . When its not true .

There are people that like NA despite what the "bashing side" of internet shows , and only the future will tell if the lovers outnumbers the haters or the opposite (maybe its even 50/50) .

What i'm saying still hold true , we do see people that werent fan of the idea at first , turning into fans , and being used to that team , and we do see that despite the outcries of the most vocal internet people , there are NA fans so far .

There is a difference between what you said here and what you said the first time.. Yes you made swiping comments. Now you are making vague comments, I find it better to just talk for myself. You don't know if it 50/50, in truth neither of use know anything. PERIOD.

[olympichero62]

How dare they change the Avengers team and put on new writers and artists!

They've never changed the team before!

[BlackKnight]

How dare they change the Avengers team and put on new writers and artists!

They've never changed the team before!

What are you talking about, are just trying to start a flame war... If you are speaking to me, I was simply saying do not make broad swiping comments when you really don't know, I even said that nobody knows what everyone thinks..

Don't know where your agressive post comes from.

[Neolucifer]

There is a difference between what you said here and what you said the first time.. Yes you made swiping comments. Now you are making vague comments, I find it better to just talk for myself. You don't know if it 50/50, in truth neither of use know anything. PERIOD.

As you wish , but actually no , i kept saying the same thing :
Not everyone long for the old avengers , people (with no quantities implied or mentioned ) are getting used to the current team and there are more NA fans than what it looks like on the internet. I hardly see how any of this is false , only vague i agree .

Of course its vague and i dont know its its 50/50 ... i just told you that only the Future will tell .

[BlackKnight]

As you wish , but actually no , i kept saying the same thing :
Not everyone long for the old avengers , people (with no quantities implied or mentioned ) are getting used to the current team and there are more NA fans than what it looks like on the internet. I hardly see how any of this is false , only vague i agree .

Of course its vague and i dont know its its 50/50 ... i just told you that only the Future will tell .

On that we agree, only the furture will tell and yes some do like it that didn't at first, but guess what some don't like it that liked it at first either, I have actually meant them. So, we just don't know.

[olympichero62]

What are you talking about, are just trying to start a flame war... If you are speaking to me, I was simply saying do not make broad swiping comments when you really don't know, I even said that nobody knows what everyone thinks..


no,no, no. Nothing like that. It was sarcasam pointed at people like melissa who dont seem to get that this has been done like 5 other times in Avengers history. And its not that big a deal to get so mad over.

I just dont understand all the anger is all. seems like a waste

[BlackKnight]

no,no, no. Nothing like that. It was sarcasam pointed at people like melissa who dont seem to get that this has been done like 5 other times in Avengers history. And its not that big a deal to get so mad over.

Melissa has the right to think how she wants without snide comments, sorry that is my opinion on that. Also I to am of the opinion that this is different then all the other times, as the feels more final. Now that is my feeling and my opinion so *shurgs* who knows how true it is.

[olympichero62]

never said anything about opinions. just think its a wasted and funny comment. So much contraity.

[BlackKnight]

never said anything about opinions. just think its a wasted and funny comment. So much contraity.

Hmmm, you really did come off like you were trying to start a flame or insult someones opinion. *shurgs* we are cool though.

[olympichero62]

I guess its hard to tell peoples intentions when your reading off a screen. I'll be more specific next time. I'm really sarcastic so I'll just write that next time. Cool.

[pureclint]

Well I stand corrected I went to a store near my work during lunch and browsed the new Marvel Knights Official guide and they flat out say Luke can lift 25 tons.

[SybaritaCybernetico]

Did anybody find the "blurred shoulder" line as finny as I did?
Spidey comes off as funny AND annoying at the same time, and that is exactly how it should be IMO...a person who's constantly wisecracking, whether as a defense mechanism or as simple "wiseassness" will inevitably irritate some people.
And that's cool with me.

It makes him human...because he not only has quirks that make him endearing but quirks that make him annoying, thus not perfect, thus human.
(please don't flame me, I am just expressing what I feel)

Spider-woman seemed very focused and intense...(and yet she had a cool moment of breezy banter with Luke and Peter) all steely determination, but you can tell as a reader there are layers there that will eventually be peeled out.
Clearly there's a lot she is hiding.
And I am enjoying very much that she's back.

Luke is a big scary,powerful teddy bear and I want to give him a hug.


Iron Man and Captain America proved once again why they are invariably on any Avengers team, the two most likely to ba part of the team, no matter what the changes are.

[Satana Hellstrom]

Well I stand corrected I went to a store near my work during lunch and browsed the new Marvel Knights Official guide and they flat out say Luke can lift 25 tons.

I knew I wasn't imagining what I read.
Which makes him stronger than Spideyboy

[BlackKnight]

I knew I wasn't imagining what I read.
Which makes him stronger than Spideyboy

Huh, well that is a change, from the handbook before and some of the Marvel games. Oh well, I am sure in 5 years spidey will be stronger again and the luke in another 5 years. *shurgs*

[pureclint]

Yeah it does, I never said you where imagining it but when most sources show him equal to Spidey (the website currently shows them both at the same strength level) I was not going to alter what facts I know with out proof. Its not a knock on you, but people do mess up details a lot of the time and I will not change my beliefs from just heresay (sp?).

[Neolucifer]

well spiderboy made Cagy bite the dust a few times if i remember well ...
Anyway wouldnt be a first time someone is powered up , and would anyone want Luke cage , who's only addition to the team seems to be his strenght and resistance , to be less powerful than spidey ?

[crackin' skrulls]

Anyway wouldnt be a first time someone is powered up

Luke Cage...the (insert favorite roided out baseball player here) of the Marvel universe...

just goes to show ya, chicks still dig the long ball...

[Satana Hellstrom]

Just for the record, since my last post apparently created some misunderstanding: I am a fan of both Luke and Spidey.
My posts regarding their strength level have nothing to do with some fanboyish "my-hero-can-beat-your-hero" thing...
And my "spideyboy" comment was in no way a slam...I should have tried to be more clear.
I was just stating information I had read before...As far as I know, Spider-man, is a ten ton guy and Luke Cage is a 25 ton guy.
Why is that a bad thing, anyway?
Luke will probably never catch up to Spider-man in terms of popularity, fan appeal and all-around impact.

Even with Spidey's strength level being lower, we all know he has beaten beings that could pulverize Luke with a thought.

As fas as the NA, I prefer Luke as the Charming yet Stoic MuscleGuy and Spidey as the very smart very funny smartalec with the heart of gold...I don't see how that reflects badly on either character.

[Neolucifer]

Oh dont worry i didnt take it that way . While of course i'll argue a few times when someone say spidey is physically weak (wich none here has done so far) , i wont want at all cost spidey to be stronger .

Why wouldnt indeed power man be given more strenght than spidey ? Its not as if he was as agile and fast , or had a 6th sense . All he got is his unbreakable skin and strenght , personal and combat experiences aside .

[Satana Hellstrom]

Oh dont worry i didnt take it that way . While of course i'll argue a few times when someone say spidey is physically weak (wich none here has done so far) , i wont want at all cost spidey to be stronger .

Why wouldnt indeed power man be given more strenght than spidey ? Its not as if he was as agile and fast , or had a 6th sense . All he got is his unbreakable skin and strenght , personal and combat experiences aside .

Excellent point.

[Master Darque]

Blah-blah talking talking.

Blah-blah Donut bribery.

Blah-blah Legion of Marvel Knights take a ride in a quinjet.

Blah-blah what the hell is wrong with Spider-Man? Is he twelve again? Two crappy jokes per panel? What?

Blah-blah one MORE book the army of Wolverine clones appears in.


Oh Yeah, REAL awesome...

Sounds like you need to put the book you aren't liking down and step away .... :D

[Brian Cronin]

Just in case people were not paying attention, I'll give one last warning, before I seriously enforce this....and I really do not want it to come to that, so just follow it, okay?

Anyone who makes an off-topic argument is going to be banned.

Off-topic arguments include....

"Why are you still reading the book?"

"Why are you grilling me?"

"That is just YOUR opinion!"

"This is just MY opinion!"

If you want to argue about New Avengers, you can do it.

Heck, do it for 100, 200, 300 posts.

Argue over the same points, over and over.

I don't care about that.

That's fine.

But go off-topic, and you're banned (and yes, obviously I'm talking about a temporary ban).

And I understand that you may want to make a joke - DON'T DO IT. Levity does not live on New Avengers threads. It is almost always NOT taken as the joke it is intended, so DON'T DO IT.

It would be awfully lame to be banned for making a joke, no?

Otherwise, carry on.

-Brian

(And don't reply to this, okay?)

[jade_nova]

Did the book even say why they went to the Savage Land? I seriously doubt Sauron, or whatever that guys name is, will be there. I think he is with the people that hired Electro.

[BlackKnight]

Did the book even say why they went to the Savage Land? I seriously doubt Sauron, or whatever that guys name is, will be there. I think he is with the people that hired Electro.

The only timeline we have for when the Avengers went is that it is either during or right after the events in Uncanny X-Men that are currently happening in that book.

[Jake V]

As they were searching for Sauron, after they discovered his SHIELD files were locked, they wanted to check with the SHIELD outpost in the Savage Land, where Sauron is known to live. They discovered that the SHIELD outpost was offline, something it is never supposed to be. Sensing something was up, they made the trip to the Savage Land to investigate.

[The Shadow]

the feels more final.
I doubt it's final!!! In fact I'm willing to bet that after Bendis leaves it will go back to the sale ol' same ol' as before because no one will want to follow in his footsteps (or be able to)

I'm not an unabashed Bendis fan... but I am loving New Avengers. On a side note I also just grabbed Powers trades 1 and 2 and so far 1 is great (though I am only on issue 3 in it)

[Sean Whitmore]

This book seriously gets better ever issue. I'd rather the team's first official mission hadn't begun until issue #4, but, spilled milk.

Spidey was a bit of a motormouth, but what I LOVED about that is the way everyone was looking to him for answers. Cap may be the most respected, but Spidey is kinda the elder statesman of the group. With the exception of Cap having lived in two time periods, Spidey's been doing this longer than anyone else on the team, and I'm happy Bendis is acknowledging this.

And bar none, his best line was: "It doesn't matter, we probably won't survive the crash...you don't go to the Savage Land without crashing." :D

Did I see the Answer up on that screen of escaped villains? That'd be awesome to see him again!

Hated that witch from SHIELD. Bendis seems to make all of his authority figures dicks (including the entire cast of Powers).

Boy, Electro really has ZERO luck when it comes to those big retirement scores, doesn't he? :)

One complaint...and it wouldn't even be a complaint, except Bendis does this ALL the time...was Spidey not remembering Sauron's name. He remembered the name Karl Lykos right off the bat, but not Sauron. I wouldn't have even mentioned it, but Bendis does do this a lot.

One last thing...am I correct to assume that the lateness of the book rests on Finch? Because if so, CAN HIM already. His work really is just "okay" and always has been, so it's odd that Quesada would allow him to cause the tardiness of their best-selling (?) book.


SEAN

[The Shadow]

One last thing...am I correct to assume that the lateness of the book rests on Finch? Because if so, CAN HIM already. His work really is just "okay" and always has been, so it's odd that Quesada would allow him to cause the tardiness of their best-selling (?) book.


SEAN
I'm with you here Sean (and most of the rest of your post too) the art isn't THAT great to warrant lateness... AND how many times were the same pannels used? Someone above mentioned the frequency and I HATE it... like that poster said "draw a new picture" (or something like that). You would think with the short cuts in art it would be on time... but as long as it remains this entertaining I'll be there.

[Jake V]

I love this. Almost all the naysayers have been turned around. I win again!

[Brian R]

I love this. Almost all the naysayers have been turned around. I win again!

I knew it! You ARE Bendis in disguise! :D

[Gaz]

I knew it! You ARE Bendis in disguise! :D
No, the real guy is nice enough to announce his prescence as BENDIS! (why the exclamation point?), he hates secret IDs, remember?

[Venomous]

Uncanny takes place at the same time as Excalibur..and Excalibur takes place in the past..right after Avengers Disassembled...which means that New Avengers is being told in the "future"

When and how did Jessica find out Spiderman's real name?

[Faust451]

but now it seems that both Excalibur and NA are both caught up to one another. As of Excalibur #11.

Issue 4 was great! I loved every bit of it and I can't wait for the next one!

[Phoney Bone]

I read it. Still don't like it. From what the owner of the store said, there will be PLENTY o' rack copies at "Comics and Stuff" in Tupelo, MS. More customers cancel their hold orders for the New Avengers every month. he still has some "Disassembled' sitting on the shelf at cover price if anybody wants some. People are not taking to kindly to Young Avengers, either. Anyway, that's the scene down here.

I'm glad others like it, though. More power to you!

[Kirk G]

Issue 4 was great! I loved every bit of it and I can't wait for the next one!

I gotta agree with that... well written...fast moving...techno, humor, plot development, and... the savage land... This aint bad, folks! :D

[Will.S]

I read it. Still don't like it. From what the owner of the store said, there will be PLENTY o' rack copies at "Comics and Stuff" in Tupelo, MS. More customers cancel their hold orders for the New Avengers every month. he still has some "Disassembled' sitting on the shelf at cover price if anybody wants some. People are not taking to kindly to Young Avengers, either. Anyway, that's the scene down here.
Must be the drinking water ;)

[Jake V]

remind me to never move to Tupelo, MS.

[The Shadow]

remind me to never move to Tupelo, MS.
Are you kidding? It's the birthplace of the King of Rock n' Roll! Just because they don't have taste in comics ( ;) :p ) doesn't mean all of Tupelo should suffer!

This Elvis Festival (http://www.tupeloelvisfestival.com/) is worth going to alone! Long live the KING!!!!

[BizarroBeachHead]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned on how well this synchs up with Uncanny X-men right now. Wolverine goes missing in the Savage land in Uncanny. Avengers head to Savageland and run into Wolverine.

I guess I'm just really surprised at how well they did that.

Okay, this is what is killing me. I don't read Uncanny, but I DO read Astonishing and Wolverine, so I was totally clueless as to why Wolverine was there and had to do some research to find out. As far as I was concerned, Wolverine was busy fighting the Danger Room...or being deprogrammed by S.H.E.I.L.D. I just don't like the idea of having to figure out on my own when all these stories are taking place so there can be some semblance of continuity. I'm all for Wolverine being on the New Avengers, but being in 4 different team books(counting NA and the 3 X-Men books, not to mention his solo...) is unacceptable. Therefore, I don't think it's good that they synch up continuity with one of the books he stars in, and not the others as well. But I realise that would be an impossible task. However, I am suprised that continuity between ANY of the books was managed.

The whole thing just really irked me, especially since I was figuring Wolverine's involvment in NA was going to have more to do with events in Enemy of the State arc rather than Uncanny X-Men, it threw me off is all. Otherwise the issue was fantastic and I am eagerly awating more issues.

[Jake V]

Are you kidding? It's the birthplace of the King of Rock n' Roll! Just because they don't have taste in comics ( ;) :p ) doesn't mean all of Tupelo should suffer!

This Elvis Festival (http://www.tupeloelvisfestival.com/) is worth going to alone! Long live the KING!!!!
I was always more of a Beatles fan. :D

[Brian R]

I was always more of a Beatles fan. :D

Hey, even the Fab Four acknowledge the King! :cool:

[Melissa]

Okay, this is what is killing me. I don't read Uncanny, but I DO read Astonishing and Wolverine, so I was totally clueless as to why Wolverine was there and had to do some research to find out. As far as I was concerned, Wolverine was busy fighting the Danger Room...or being deprogrammed by S.H.E.I.L.D. I just don't like the idea of having to figure out on my own when all these stories are taking place so there can be some semblance of continuity. I'm all for Wolverine being on the New Avengers, but being in 4 different team books(counting NA and the 3 X-Men books, not to mention his solo...) is unacceptable. Therefore, I don't think it's good that they synch up continuity with one of the books he stars in, and not the others as well. But I realise that would be an impossible task. However, I am suprised that continuity between ANY of the books was managed.

The whole thing just really irked me, especially since I was figuring Wolverine's involvment in NA was going to have more to do with events in Enemy of the State arc rather than Uncanny X-Men, it threw me off is all. Otherwise the issue was fantastic and I am eagerly awating more issues.

I'm eagerly awaiting the day when Wolverine bumps into himself in one of the zillion books he appears in, and realises that all along he was an army of clones...

[Brian R]

I'm eagerly awaiting the day when Wolverine bumps into himself in one of the zillion books he appears in, and realises that all along he was an army of clones...

I dont understand. Do you mean that Wolverine appears in more than one monthly title? I doubt it, I mean, how can anyone be in two places at once? The answer is: they cant, so you must be joking of course. Thank you and have a nice day.

[Master Darque]

Why not ? Get all the hot issues that are selling out in Austin , Texas !

[moebius]

Okay, this is what is killing me. I don't read Uncanny, but I DO read Astonishing and Wolverine, so I was totally clueless as to why Wolverine was there and had to do some research to find out. As far as I was concerned, Wolverine was busy fighting the Danger Room...or being deprogrammed by S.H.E.I.L.D. I just don't like the idea of having to figure out on my own when all these stories are taking place so there can be some semblance of continuity. I'm all for Wolverine being on the New Avengers, but being in 4 different team books(counting NA and the 3 X-Men books, not to mention his solo...) is unacceptable. Therefore, I don't think it's good that they synch up continuity with one of the books he stars in, and not the others as well. But I realise that would be an impossible task. However, I am suprised that continuity between ANY of the books was managed.

The whole thing just really irked me, especially since I was figuring Wolverine's involvment in NA was going to have more to do with events in Enemy of the State arc rather than Uncanny X-Men, it threw me off is all. Otherwise the issue was fantastic and I am eagerly awating more issues.


Not to be confused with the Golgotha storyline in Adjectiveless X-Men, which I believe starts off with Wolverine [however briefly] in the COLD part of Antarctica.

He sure likes that continent.

[kane]

A question:

What happened with Starks wealth?

[Huzzah!]

Havent had time to read the thread but just throwing in my two cents

Im not a fan of this book being named avengers, come on defenders is right there, but this book is kind of fun.


And that you dont go to the savage land without crashing is probably the best line ever written for marvel. The gag afterwards was a bit goofy, but the line is still solid

And that spiderwoman drawing was toast. Also egads look continuty as Wolverine was lost in the savage land.

[CodeMonkey]

Bendis is writing the current Spider-Man much better than the unsure, constantly doubtful Ultimate Spidey. It's perfect.

The reference to Captain America having "Champion" status was a nice touch. Always explains why he can't not be on a team for very long in the marvel universe.

I'm assuming the "dissappearance" of Nick Fury will be explained either later on in Avengers, or perhaps at the end of Secret War sometime in 2007.

Personally, I love the art on this book. It's slick, Iron Man actually looks interesting, and well, we see how everyone seems to drool over Spider-Woman so no complaints.

Overall, this book couldn't get any better for me.

What I think would be nice is for all these books taking place in the future/past/present would be a nice little timeline on the cover page, showing where this book takes place in relation to right now (whether a bar, with various issues marked, or even a 'This issue takes place 4 months ago...').

[moebius]

Hmmm...in the latest Punisher arc (co-starring Fury) he had lost SHIELD for the umpteenth time. But he's still around and active in the Intelligence community.

Huh. Also, where do we put Secret War in relation to Enemy of the State. Fury is clearly in charge in Enemy, but it seems like he would have to have been removed for Secret War. That might explain Wolverine's absence so far in SW. Or it might not.

I'm sure we'll find out in March 2008 when the series wraps (because, you know, we haven't had 8 SW is late jokes already).

[EmmettHULK]

Solid writing, decent art and finally the plot seemed to be moving along at a faster pace than usual.
Liking this title more and more each month...

[Phoney Bone]

Are you kidding? It's the birthplace of the King of Rock n' Roll! Just because they don't have taste in comics ( ;) :p ) doesn't mean all of Tupelo should suffer!

This Elvis Festival (http://www.tupeloelvisfestival.com/) is worth going to alone! Long live the KING!!!!


The only taste we have now is from all the dust collecting on Avengers comic books. :D

Ultimate Spider-Man and Thunderbolts...those are the only Marvels that the store owner can't keep in stock. ( Psst...don't buy Thunderbolts....more for US !)

Seriously though, Tupelo used to be a HUGE Marvel town, now it is shifting toward DC. I never would have thought it two years ago. It seemed to shift after JLA/Avengers.

I think you'd like Tupelo, Jake V....all the New Avengers you want. The racks are flooded with unbought copies! :p

[Sean Whitmore]

I think you'd like Tupelo, Jake V....all the New Avengers you want. The racks are flooded with unbought copies! :p


It's irresponsible of the city to let all those books go to waste. They should start using New Avengers as food, apparel, currency, and possibly an alternative energy source.

I can see it now..."Gimme 10 bucks worth of Premium Finch", they'll say. And they WILL, too! I'll MAKE 'em!


SEAN

[Phoney Bone]

It's irresponsible of the city to let all those books go to waste. They should start using New Avengers as .... possibly an alternative energy source.


SEAN

I'm tellin' ya! Gas has risen to $2.01 a gallon! (He said with full knowledge of how much MORE it costs in other states, the cheeky monkey.)

[We R. Venom]

i am not a fan of using sex and big breasted women in thongs in comics BUT GAWD DAMN SPIDERWOMAN LOOKED SEXY AS HELL!!!

i honestly did a double take on that page she is amazing! the art was the best that i am seeing in comics today...no doubt in my mind Finch is rocking harder than anyone in the medium!

and Spidey hasnt been this funny in the reg MU in years...
Luke cage and Spidey dialouge is gonna be funny as hell....

and now........(spoiler)
















Wolverine!!!!!

She's a goddess, i love her.

[We R. Venom]

She's a goddess, i love her. Anyway, I'm wondering when or even if Luke Cage is gonna get an outfit. I'd rather him not.

[Sean Whitmore]

Anyway, I'm wondering when or even if Luke Cage is gonna get an outfit. I'd rather him not.


Yeah, he's certainly not costume material. But still, he does look rather...underdressed when standing around the other Avengers, doesn't he?


SEAN

[C.O. Jones]

Great book. 2 nits:

The 1st shot of the giant pic of Cap in the HQ has his left hand extended & chopped off panel past the frame, but once we see it directly facing it behind the Spiders & their dialogue you can see his whole arm.

It may be me (I should know this), but I thought Wakanda was a landlocked nation. Electro talked about him and his girl escaping to a beach there.

[Jake V]

Great book. 2 nits:

The 1st shot of the giant pic of Cap in the HQ has his left hand extended & chopped off panel past the frame, but once we see it directly facing it behind the Spiders & their dialogue you can see his whole arm.

It may be me (I should know this), but I thought Wakanda was a landlocked nation. Electro talked about him and his girl escaping to a beach there.
Elektro ain't that bright.

[Brian R]

Elektro ain't that bright.

Its Electro, with a "C".


As for Wakanda, I too thought that it was on the coast for some reason, so Electro's comment made sense to me. I wonder if it was actually a mistake by Bendis or if he really meant to give the die-hard fans a little nod - ie: Electro is a dumbass.

[Jake V]

BAH! the K is KOOLER!!!!

My speling is perfeckt. :mad:

[Brian R]

BAH! the K is KOOLER!!!!

My speling is perfeckt. :mad:

I bow before your 1337N355. :D

[C.O. Jones]

Plus, check out the gangplank: as the 5 have already disembarked, there seems to be a 6th member walking down it.

[Huzzah!]

I thought wakanda was landlocked.

But remember Black Panther has some of his supersub thingies in the new york harbor. So they either have a big ass river or are oceanfront.

[Ivan Isaacs]

Donuts? Donuts?! DONUTS?! What the hell?!
Bendis writes the most funny Spider-Man in years ("You don't land in the Savage Land without crushing") and the interaction between those guys is just awesome.

The art is still sometimes butt-ugly and sometimes just awesome, but it is the Bendis dialogue that keeps the ball rolling.

Now if only Wolverine would quit being an X-Men or leave the NA after a couple of issues I'd be glad.

BTW: The continuity geek in me was VERY pleased that Jessica was talking about THREE Spider-Women ripping her off and not only TWO. :]

[Darth Mufassssa]

"I'm also getting a BIG sense of continuity out of this. Sauron's file has been locked? Could that have anything to do with his involvement in Weapon X? Finding Wolverine in the Savage Land, which was the last place we saw him in Uncanny X-Men. If this does involve Weapon X, that could easily provide a logical reason for Wolverine to join the Avengers. Good stuff.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking the same thing about the intro of Wolverine and I am hoping that the continuity you mentioned is what Bendis is going to use. In addition to the refrences to Uncanny X-Men and the Weapon X connection of Suaron, Nick Fury and Cap have been in the last couple of issues of Wolverine's book during the "Enemy of the State" and "Agent of Shield" Story Arcs so I am hoping the continutiy is flowing!!! At any rate Issue 4 was hot! I especially liked the whole sequence where cap tells the Acting Sheild Director about his "Champion" Status. I am liking this book more and more...

[jade_nova]

As they were searching for Sauron, after they discovered his SHIELD files were locked, they wanted to check with the SHIELD outpost in the Savage Land, where Sauron is known to live. They discovered that the SHIELD outpost was offline, something it is never supposed to be. Sensing something was up, they made the trip to the Savage Land to investigate.

Why does SHIELD have an outpost in the Savage Land? I thought SHIELD dealt with things happening the United States and no where else. This definitly goes against what Nick Fury told Cyclops in Astonishing X-Men about how Genosha was outside of SHIELD's jurisdiction.

[The Fury]

Why does SHIELD have an outpost in the Savage Land? I thought SHIELD dealt with things happening the United States and no where else. This definitly goes against what Nick Fury told Cyclops in Astonishing X-Men about how Genosha was outside of SHIELD's jurisdiction.
I remember talking about this a while ago in another thread, and that was the exact point we had. I think SHIELD is now meant to be a world organisation helped in part by the UN but people (writers) forget this fact. Whedon's thing may ahve been a mistake and it caused much confusion.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Actually no it has not, for most of his existence Luke was a lot weaker then Spider-man. WE have been over this before and really the best guess is they are now both about the same it is his Unbreakable skin that makes Luke SEEM stronger (ie he is more Dense).

Again, no. Luke's typical strength feats - things like tearing open vault doors - are far in excess of Spidey's. Luke is much stronger than Spider-Man, and always has been much stronger.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Bendis gave Spidey and Luke lots of great lines. Spidey jokes are always a good thing.

Spider-Woman finally got some personality this issue. Good thing to see. Unfortunately, she was drawn in an uncomfortable, contorted manner on that cover. While a person really *could* get in that position, I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone *would* do so.

And Wolverine finally shows. Joy.

Not a total suck fest - some pretty funny moments, really, which is more than one gets from a lot of comics. Not great, either. Finch's art does nothing for me.

Grade: C+

[CAPWOLF]

That Luke Cage strength stuff is crap. Luke has always been one of my favorite characters and one thing I know is that he has NEVER nearly as strong as Spiderman. That 1 ton range was about right. I always thought it peculiar that someone named Power Man wasnt that strong, it didnt bother me cause he fought scrubs, but it was interesting. Now I accept he is in the 25 ton range I have no choice, but I reiterate he was NEVER CLOSE to that range.

....P.S. did anyone see how he wrecked the Goblin in the Pulse? What a f'ing beatdown

[Stephane Garrelie]

New avengers is a good book. In some way it remind me the old 70'Champions of L.A. book by Bill Mantlo and John Byrne. I mean it's different from the Avengers which for me is perfect in it's Roy Thomas form. Loved what Roger Stern and David Michelinie did too.
I read only the first issue of the Bendis end of the old series. Divination I think. :D
This being said, for what Bendis does in new avengers a reset was necessary and you know, in comicbooks there is always a way to bring characters back. ;)
Reading new avengers with a fresh mind, I loved it.
I think Bendis write too much comics this days to write every one he does well (to be honest I find his DD a little light.even if it's not a bad book. ;) ). Loved #4 like I did the 3 first :) .

[Sean Whitmore]

I always thought it peculiar that someone named Power Man wasnt that strong, it didnt bother me cause he fought scrubs, but it was interesting.


This is all news to me. I've only ever read Cage when he guest-starred in other people's books (and that mini by Azz where he never really did anything super), but just from the whole premise of the character, I assumed he was, like, Ms. Marvel level strong.


....P.S. did anyone see how he wrecked the Goblin in the Pulse? What a f'ing beatdown


I will forever curse that scene. That'd be like frickin' Blue Devil taking out the Joker. It read like bad fanfic.


SEAN

[the*shpongelettes]

Me, I'll just wait about 18 months until they return the real Avengers to us... along with an Avengers writer... and a guy who draws every panel...

Naïve little girl, ... still believes in "real"


reality is sooooo over-rated.

But, why not enjoy this unreal issue and then chalk it up to the "fantasy" corner of your brain...?


as advised by

the shpongelettes
( zaurana diskoteka, dazzla strob lithe, beata mastera)

[JeffreyWKramer]

That Luke Cage strength stuff is crap. Luke has always been one of my favorite characters and one thing I know is that he has NEVER nearly as strong as Spiderman. That 1 ton range was about right. I always thought it peculiar that someone named Power Man wasnt that strong, it didnt bother me cause he fought scrubs, but it was interesting. Now I accept he is in the 25 ton range I have no choice, but I reiterate he was NEVER CLOSE to that range.

....P.S. did anyone see how he wrecked the Goblin in the Pulse? What a f'ing beatdown

As someone who had a complete run of Cage's original book, all I can say is, you're completely wrong.

Cage has never been anywhere near the top of the line in terms of strength - certainly not in the same class as people like the Thing or Thundra or Doc Samson - or even Ms. Marvel or old-school Rogue - but easily able to punch his way through/tear apart thick steel.

[Will.S]

I will forever curse that scene. That'd be like frickin' Blue Devil taking out the Joker. It read like bad fanfic.
What was so unbeleivable about it? Spidey webbed onto Green Goblin, Luke (who has the power of both combined and then some) pulled their fats down and beat the crap out of the Goblin.

It was all well within his range of powers.

[JeffreyWKramer]

What was so unbeleivable about it? Spidey webbed onto Green Goblin, Luke (who has the power of both combined and then some) pulled their fats down and beat the crap out of the Goblin.

It was all well within his range of powers.

I personally liked the scene. Osborne has long deserved a complete and utter beat-down, and Spidey isn't really the sort of character to give it to him. Not in that fashion. It is, however, completely consistent for Luke Cage to do that.

Lots of Spidey fans don't like the scene, I understand, and I can understand why, as it essentially has a more minor character give their hero's arch-foe a beat-down the hero never really manages to deliver. It works for me, though.

[Sean Whitmore]

What was so unbeleivable about it? Spidey webbed onto Green Goblin, Luke (who has the power of both combined and then some) pulled their fats down and beat the crap out of the Goblin.

It was all well within his range of powers.


Oh, I'm not saying that Cage COULDN'T beat the Goblin, I'm arguing that he SHOULDN'T have. This wasn't just some fight, this was Norman Osborn's unmasking, which is a pretty huge thing. This was the culmination of the Peter/Norman feud, and Cage just kinda walks over and sticks his nose in it.

It would be like, if Batman finally found the guy who killed his parents, and Huntress or Azrael was the one to catch him. It's unsatisfying, to put it mildly.

EDIT: Having said that, I wouldn't mind seeing Cage mess Norman up after Spidey had already brought him to justice, because Norman surely does deserve a crippling beating. But he shouldn't be the guy who proves to the world that Norman is the Goblin.


SEAN

[JeffreyWKramer]

Oh, I'm not saying that Cage COULDN'T beat the Goblin, I'm arguing that he SHOULDN'T have. This wasn't just some fight, this was Norman Osborn's unmasking, which is a pretty huge thing. This was the culmination of the Peter/Norman feud, and Cage just kinda walks over and sticks his nose in it.

It would be like, if Batman finally found the guy who killed his parents, and Huntress or Azrael was the one to catch him. It's unsatisfying, to put it mildly.


Yeah, for dramatic purposes, I can see that point. If anyone *deserved* that moment, it would be Spidey.

Still, I completely loved seeing Osborne get beat to a pulp.

[mattbib]

Cage's involvement in taking down Osborn, though, greatly lent to the renewed feeling of a shared universe.

[Sean Whitmore]

Cage's involvement in taking down Osborn, though, greatly lent to the renewed feeling of a shared universe.


True, I can't fault Bendis for that. :) But I maintain the same feeling could have been gotten from:

a) Cage losing to Norman, or

b) Cage beating up Norman after Spidey had brought him to justice.


SEAN

[Jake V]

It wasn't like Cage just inserted himself in the Spidey-Goblin feud. Osborn attacked Cage's girlfriend and came close to killing his unborn child. Cage had a personal investment in beating down Osborn.

For the culmination of the Spidey-Goblin feud, read MK Spider-Man #12, on sale this week. :)

[Will.S]

Oh, I'm not saying that Cage COULDN'T beat the Goblin, I'm arguing that he SHOULDN'T have. This wasn't just some fight, this was Norman Osborn's unmasking, which is a pretty huge thing. This was the culmination of the Peter/Norman feud, and Cage just kinda walks over and sticks his nose in it.
Hmm, well I understand your stance in that it shouldn't have happened in this title and more in a regular Spidey title where the story would be more remembered as a great Spiderman story. It's THE major downfall of Norman but the way he was portrayed in Thin Air was one of the best, most devious way I've seen him be in a long time.

It wasn't just a personal tale for Spiderman but for Jessica, Luke and Ben which is why I think it feels stronger with that cast. I also like the way Luke went straight for Norman after he revealed himself and Norman saw that all the clues pointed straight to him. Spiderman danced around putting an end to Norman because he felt sorry for that psycho and this tale seemed like Spiderman was really going to put Norman down for good but it's hard to say what would have happened had Luke not intervened.

It would be like, if Batman finally found the guy who killed his parents, and Huntress or Azrael was the one to catch him. It's unsatisfying, to put it mildly.
Luke Cage had more significance in the story along with Jessica than those two characters being involved in that kind of tale. It just goes to show though how both characters (Luke and Peter) go about dealing with the Goblin and how close he affected them for things to go down the way it did with Luke and the endangerment of his girlfriend and baby and Peter with added guilt that Green Goblin is on the loose murdering innocents when he could have put an end to Norman once and for all despite the whole identity thing.

EDIT: Having said that, I wouldn't mind seeing Cage mess Norman up after Spidey had already brought him to justice, because Norman surely does deserve a crippling beating. But he shouldn't be the guy who proves to the world that Norman is the Goblin.
Remember, Cage wasn't the one that revealed that Norman was Goblin, he did it to himself by being so wreckless and thinking that he could cover himself forever. He had it coming ;)

[Qadeer]

To start it off I Loved this issue and I love this comic. Now I never read one of the old Avengers in my life but to tell the truth I was happy when I heard they were changing the team to what it is now. I think Bendis is doing an excellent job on this title and hope he can keep it up. And as long as this comic stays in the top 10 sales I dont see them going back to the old version.

[rafueiro]

And I am still imagining who the hell is the black ninja...

[Brian R]

I personally liked the scene. Osborne has long deserved a complete and utter beat-down, and Spidey isn't really the sort of character to give it to him. Not in that fashion. It is, however, completely consistent for Luke Cage to do that.

Perhaps you havent read MK Spider-Man #1, where Spidey clobbers Goblin unconscious with a friggin' mailbox. Then again, maybe you are the lucky one here. ;)

[EmmettHULK]

Bendis gave Spidey and Luke lots of great lines. Spidey jokes are always a good thing.

Spider-Woman finally got some personality this issue.

Have you read her old book?
Bendis is actually continuing on what her solo book established, personality-wise...she has always had a personality, as written by Gruenwald, Wolfman ,Nocenti and Claremont...
For that, I applaud Bendis, for giving Jessica a nice mystery and a platform, without resorting to turnig her into an entirely different character from what her fans love her as...

[C.O. Jones]

Maybe in a weird kind of way, Luke also saved a beatdown for Norman by virtue of the fact that him (Norman) and JJJ were friends back in the day. JJJ hired Luke to go after Spider-Man for the so-called murder of Norman Osborn, and here he is alive and kicking. Maybe it was a message sent like, "How dare Jonah hire me to bring in a guy who didn't murder his insane good friend who was supposed to be dead all this time AND is the Green Goblin?! Yeah, you've had this comin' since 1973!"

It would be cool to see Luke throw all this at JJJ at some time during The Pulse. It would also be cool to see Luke and Spidey kinda discuss it a bit in NA.

[Paradox]

The Fury sees changes:

I remember talking about this a while ago in another thread, and that was the exact point we had. I think SHIELD is now meant to be a world organisation helped in part by the UN but people (writers) forget this fact. Whedon's thing may ahve been a mistake and it caused much confusion.

Well, they were at the start and they are again. Two out of the three names that make up the S.H.I.E.L.D acronym have "international" right in the title.

Started as Supreme Headquarters International Espionage Law-Enforcement Division, then went to Strategic Hazard Intervention / Espionage Logistics Directorate and is now Security Hazards International Espionage Law-enforcement Detection.

Yes, it would probably help if they stopped changing it.

[Red State Cap]

I thought this was an OK issue overall. It does seem to be accounting for continuity, which is never a bad thing. Spoilers below...



Things I liked:
1) Jessica Drew on page 4. :D I'd buy THAT for a dollar!
2) A little easter egg for Captain America fans, the framed picture on the wall in Stark Tower (page 4&5) is the cover to CA #1.
3) Interaction between a lot of new and dissimilar characters in the Avengers. They've all met sometime in the past, but with the obvious exception of CA and IM, they've never been in close cooperation for long. It seems that Mr. Bendis is really focussing on the new guys interacting with each other, rather than with IM and CA right now. I suppose he's establishing their relationships, while keeping CA and IM aloof, since they are the old guard and the real heart of the team. One wonders how well the two "halves" will integrate over time, particularly given that one of the newbies is a turncoat. Perhaps later we'll get more interaction between the old guard and new guard; for example, can Spiderman take orders from CA without question? Can IM keep his eyes off of Spiderwoman? ;)

Things I didn't like:
1) Unfortunately this is the beginning of Wolverine's association with the New Avengers. I'm extremely disappointed to see him brought over, and I can only hope the association is short-lived and not repeated. Leave him in the angst-men where he belongs.
2) I thought some of the banter was witty, but some was forced. I think it got a little too cutesy. Case in point: The donuts. A collection of hardened thugs rolls Sauron to the Avengers, for a donut? Some may think it's funny, but I think the humor here is ridiculous and falls flat.
3) CA was uncharacteristically passive.
4) If the Avengers can find out that Shield's Savage Land outpost has gone silent, why doesn't Shield appear to know or do anything about it?

Overall I thought it was OK-good, and with the rather large exception of Wolverine joining the team, I look forward to the next few issues.

RSC