Superman & Batman 18 discussion/spoilers

[KAy]

Okay... that was pretty cool, in a "surreal" kind of way.

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First, the fight with the villains was a pretty good example how a scuffle between superpowered beings should realistically go -- quick and extremely brutal. Of course Aquaman, GL, Flash and MM getting killed by, eh, second-rateish villains isn't too realistic (comic canon-wise), but that was sort of understandable, given the circumstances.

Second, B&S visiting Green Arrow, Supes talking with Diana and all the psychological aftermath stuff was the best part of the issue, for sure.

Third, hey, so that was the golden-age Superman? Oh boy, infinite crisis my ass...

[the Monitor]

so that was the golden-age Superman? Oh boy, infinite crisis my ass...


Hmm...I think I need one of the big kids to explain this one to me.

The "elsewhen" postlogue to the story started with what I thought was the "Kingdom" version of the Golden Age (pre Crisis Earth 2) Superman. Then he returned to the "world" of Whatever Happened to the Man of Tommorow which was the Silver Age (pre Crisis Earth 1) Superman.

Can anyone explain this to me? While we're at it, any theories as to what all the chronal tampering from this arc means in the DCU?

[multjiang]

Hmm...I think I need one of the big kids to explain this one to me.

The "elsewhen" postlogue to the story started with what I thought was the "Kingdom" version of the Golden Age (pre Crisis Earth 2) Superman. Then he returned to the "world" of Whatever Happened to the Man of Tommorow which was the Silver Age (pre Crisis Earth 1) Superman.

Can anyone explain this to me? While we're at it, any theories as to what all the chronal tampering from this arc means in the DCU?


Hypertime!

Actually, it never said he was the KC Superman. People thought so because he looked like that ("S" shield with black background, etc.).

And, never think too much when read a Jeph Loeb story. You'll only get headache.

[Brian R]

It was a Superman from a future where the world had been destroyed, but now because of what Bats and Supes accomplished all is right with the world again. Simple, not very confusing, I know thats a slight over-simplification, but you get my point.

I loved the issue so much, it just makes it harder to wait the ENDLESS months between issues! I hope to god Ed has been working on the last 6-issue arc for a few weeks, so that there wont be any delays. If we get to see issue 25 by christmas this year I will consider myself extremely lucky.

[Beatnikman]

Of course Aquaman, GL, Flash and MM getting killed by, eh, second-rateish villains isn't too realistic (comic canon-wise), but that was sort of understandable, given the circumstances.
The circumstances of them being mostly dead? Yeah, it didn't bother me much given the circumstances.

Second, B&S visiting Green Arrow, Supes talking with Diana and all the psychological aftermath stuff was the best part of the issue, for sure.
I agree, and that's also what was frustrating for me. This whole arc just didn't do anything for me. When I find myself more confused than entertained, I'm a little disappointed that I spent my money on that comic.

I'm pretty much just trying to hang in there until McGuinness comes back, and when he's gone again I think I'll be done.

[PatrickG]

It was the Superman of an alternate future timeline where earth got destroyed.

Once everything got fixed, his life got straightened around and he got a happy ending with Lois taken straight out of "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"

[Kid Seven]

Once everything got fixed, his life got straightened around and he got a happy ending with Lois taken straight out of "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"

That's pretty much how I read the issue; I like the double homage to Waid/Ross and Moore with the 'future' Superman.

Go Dead JLA!

[the Monitor]

So it sounds like the general consensus then is the ending was more a homage and nod to these past stories and not so much a hint of continuity changes on the horizon (cuz I don't know if you heard about it or not but there's a CRISIS coming :) )

[Captain Smith]

That Supes dude was PC Earth 1 Superman who gave up his powers after killing Mr. Myxpltzk (sp?). Yes, he is alive!! He remembers the Crisis and morns the original Kara!

What that means for continuity and Hypertime - I have no idea.

While the fights were fun, they show the complete incompetence of the JLA in combat. They should have vaporized at speed blitz level all of their opponents. Oh, well - for example, why did Supes take the green K sword in the chest, when at speed he could have simple knock Ras' head clean off?

Bats will be even more nuts after this one.

[Kid Seven]

And didn't the Pre-Crisis Superman, and his timeline, seem to be fading into oblivion as time corrected itself, much as happened with the Legion of Super-Villains and the Adult Legion?

[i5hawn]

the superman with the black "s" was simply referred to as kingdom come supes since he sported the gray temples and costume, but he apparently is the superman from the batman/superman continuity timeline (the comic apparnetly like x-men operates outside of normal dc parameters since half the stories never seem to care about other things going on) the reason this is known is because he tells current superman that he is himself and the only way to prevent the future of the earth being destroyed (from the krypto meteor i think) is to stop them from trying to prevent the meteor from hitting the earth. he also tells this to captain atom i think. but the guy at the end is in fact the pre-crisis superman which just confuses things even more but that world is seemingly wiped out since it does the fade white thing that the other worlds do in issue 17.

someone needs to explain how darkseid got off the source wall and ruled earth.

[Forsaken_One]

someone needs to explain how darkseid got off the source wall and ruled earth.
That's one of the few things that doesn't need to be explained really. As I recall the source wall only stops people who are trying to breach it, not those who are being forced into it. Since Darkseid had no intention to breach the wall (and that does matter) he wouldn't have been held. Of course even if he hadn't been held he's been taken by the source wall and escaped before, so it's not like he's going to remain stuck there. And even ignoring that it's a freaking time-travel/alternate timeline story, so we can't even be sure that one event happened.

[JoshuaB]

When Superman was thrown back in time at the end, and he was given visions of possible worlds and histories, it was interesting that he saw the death of the original, Pre-Crisis Kara. Is that memory going to have an effect on him, I wonder? Or will it be rationalized as just one possible, Hypertime reality, and not give it another thought?

[Lurker]

I'm at the point to where I don't know if I'm going to stick with this book now that "Kingdom" Superman's story has resolved. The only dangling plot thread I can think of is Luthor's whereabouts, and the last time I saw him in this book he was mumbling about a "crisis." I don't think I want anything to do with that based on what I've seen from IDC and Countdown. It might be drop time for me for all DCU titles with the All-Stars coming out. What say youse guys?

[stealthwise]

It might be drop time for me for all DCU titles with the All-Stars coming out. What say youse guys?

That's essentially what I'm doing right now, with the exception of the Legion and Green Lantern.

[vantheman77]

It's nice to see the future Superman having a family at the end, settling down
with Lois in Smallville and having a baby (a boy?). Did they also cease to
exist in the end?

[sikkbones]

just a thought... someone remebers the crisis in all the rumors right?
who says that someone has to be IN the official DCU?
possibly he could be in that pocket of time and space that he knows how to escape from and could possibly want the multiverse back so HE could exsist agian.. just a thought...

[Master Darque]

More for me , then .
Me ? I felt like it was saying that Kingdom Come Supes is/was the future of PreCrisis , Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow Supes . So now , since Bruce and Clark were able to fix the glitch , Kingdom Come won't happen .
This will lead into 2007's Infinite Crises in Multiple Hypertimes .

[sikkbones]

More for me , then .
Me ? I felt like it was saying that Kingdom Come Supes is/was the future of PreCrisis , Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow Supes . So now , since Bruce and Clark were able to fix the glitch , Kingdom Come won't happen .
This will lead into 2007's Infinite Crises in Multiple Hypertimes .
thats the best one i've heard yet

[bannermanonemillion]

Anyone else wanna point out that Batman is even more screwed up now than before?

[PatrickG]

I dunno.

When he pulled the gun in #16, I thought he was gonna shoot the Waynes to create himself.

Imagine THAT.

[sikkbones]

I dunno.

When he pulled the gun in #16, I thought he was gonna shoot the Waynes to create himself.

Imagine THAT.
actually i'm sure one day they will use that scenario for a hypertime/elseworlds story.

[Antonio B.]

I have the first two trades of this series. Plan to get there third and will start collecting with 19.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

What really annoys me is that issue 7 isn't collected in the trades. When you're collecting comics in trades, you shouldn't skip over issues. They could have easily added it at the beginning of the Supergirl one.

Just another thing that bugs me about the way DC does their trades.

[Brian R]

What really annoys me is that issue 7 isn't collected in the trades. When you're collecting comics in trades, you shouldn't skip over issues. They could have easily added it at the beginning of the Supergirl one.

Just another thing that bugs me about the way DC does their trades.

Firstly, you can expect that issue 19 will not be collected either, since like 7, it is a filler issue with not much to add to the overall storyline. And as for DC and their trade policies, Marvel has also been known to skip "filler" issues when putting trades together, so its not at all a "DC Thing".

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Tell me a recent series of Marvel trades that skipped issues, and I'll be surprised.

[Brian R]

Tell me a recent series of Marvel trades that skipped issues, and I'll be surprised.

Well, in a thread on the Marvel forum, Jake V and another poster were lamenting the fact that one of their favorite DD issues was not collected... so that would qualify. All I am saying is that this is a complaint I hear about both Marvel and DC fans, so its not just a DC problem.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

I'd be willing to bet that the missing DD issue isn't very recent, and is probably from the DD series before the current one.

I'm talking about DC and Marvel's trade policies NOW. And Marvel right now collects pretty much EVERYTHING and COMPLETELY.

But skipping issues is only one of my many problems with DCs approach to trades.