Who Was The Better Robin?

[Super Samurai]

Tim Drake or Dick Grayson? which had more skill, had a better relationship with batman?, who was more usefult to batman?

[marshal99]

Best side-to-side comparison is still in Robin issue #10 during that zero hour crossover. Robin I and Robin III teaming up and discuss batman and their line of work. ;)

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/69352000638.10.gif

[JerrBear81]

What about Robin 2?

[Crinos]

What about Robin 2?

he sucks. Nuff said.

[Draconomicon]

he sucks. Nuff said.

No he doesnt :(

[Crinos]

No he doesnt :(

He was a nasty, antisocial dickweed who didnt care about anyone but himself.

He was so reviled that the fans actually VOTED him dead.

[Wrye]

The Earth-2 Dick Grayson. He's all grown up, and Batman's insane. Has to count for something.

[Draconomicon]

He was a nasty, antisocial dickweed who didnt care about anyone but himself.

He was so reviled that the fans actually VOTED him dead.

No, they didnt!
It were the other guys who did!

Todd was my favorite robin.
Didnt and dont care about the others...

[Flawless P]

Its all about the one who turns into Nightwing.

[Paladin]

Dick Grayson was welcomed in by the Batman, that has to count for something, add to that the understanding that when Bruce finally retires his mantle that Dick will be the one to assume it and well, I don't really think it is much of a comparison. Tim Drake is still a great step up from that asshole that assumed the role of Robin after Dick left though.

[Jack]

1) Tim has much more skill now than Dick had when he was Robin, but less natural talent.

2) Dick, almost certainly. Dick's the firstborn after all.

3) Tricky... Depends on how you define useful - do you mean useful in crime fighting, or useful in keeping Batman balanced? The former is Tim all the way, but Dick was far better at the latter.

[ACK!]

What about Robin 2?

Which one???

The nice, pre-Crisis On Infinite Earths Jason Todd

or..

The not-so-nice post-Crisis Jason Todd?? :confused:

:eek: :eek:

[OverMaster]

Best Robin ever. WORD!

http://www.mascarade.co.uk/images/robin.jpg

[sikkbones]

isn't tim drake technically robin 4?
seeing how robin 2 was silver age robin?

anyways jason todd rules... anti scocial assholes always make the best characters...

[Hex77]

Dick, because he is an astronaut. (Don't ask, inside joke.) But seriously, Dick in all of those except usefulness.

[kane]

1. Dick was the better fighter as Robin, he has more natural talent. Tim is more intelligent i think and he has a better sense in responsibility.

2. The Bruce-Dick relationship is a father-son relationship, the Bruce-Tim relationship is a teacher-good pupil relationship

3. I think Tim is more useful to Batman. As a fighter he is inferior to Dick, but i don´t think this is so important. Batman is a good fighter and a fighting kid is a help, but not so important. I think Tim whole attitude to crimefighting, his sense of responsibility, his intelligence are more important to Batman.

[Jaye]

No votes for Steph/Spoiler?

kidding... she barely had enough time, but she was Robin IV

[sikkbones]

i have the feeling now that tims father is dead.. (until he's brought back as one of tim's villans of course) that the tim/bruce relationship might change.

[Baron Banter]

Dick Grayson because of the difference in the relationship between the two.

[Totoro Man]

I prefer the original Dick Grayson "Robin" because he single-handedly killed FOUR people in his first comic-book showing! woohoo... no guts no glory! yeah!!!

[sikkbones]

I prefer the original Dick Grayson "Robin" because he single-handedly killed FOUR people in his first comic-book showing! woohoo... no guts no glory! yeah!!!
when was this?

[Totoro Man]

actually, it's the very first time he showed up. (around 1940, I think)

y'see, Golden Age Batman neither Bats nor Robin had any compunctions about killing people. Robin knocked four guys off the side of a skyscraper (under construction) and it was pretty obvious that they died.

in another early Batman story Batman kills two or three guys before we've even made it four pages into the story. the leading bad guy even complains about this!!! it's in the first Batman hardbound reprint, I think it's volume 1.

[sikkbones]

superhero's killing people is cool....

i think that we should arm every superhero with a gun so they can kill of characters we hate.... and each other...

tim drake and titans tommorow should us how truly bad ass superheros could be.

[Totoro Man]

:eek:

heh, I can see that my sarcasm wasn't appreciated. oh well, humor is a truly subjective thing. after all, I thought "Donnie Darko" and "Barton Fink" were "funny".

so, there ya go.

with Batman, I think he works better when he doesn't kill people...

as for Captain America, who's supposed to be some sort of 'soldier' I find his general lack of killing people to be sorta... I dunno, inexcusable (at least as an amateur student of military history since the age of 9, it doesn't make a lot of sense given what soldiers actually do). "superheroes" aren't allowed to kill people but "super-soldiers" should be quite adept at killing people as the situation demands... but that's obviously well off topic.

[stealthwise]

Imo, Dick works best as Nightwing and Tim works well as Robin. It's been a long time since Dick was Robin, I'm having a hard time remembering some good stories in the comics with him as Robin.

[sikkbones]

:eek:

heh, I can see that my sarcasm wasn't appreciated. oh well, humor is a truly subjective thing. after all, I thought "Donnie Darko" and "Barton Fink" were "funny".

so, there ya go.

with Batman, I think he works better when he doesn't kill people...

as for Captain America, who's supposed to be some sort of 'soldier' I find his general lack of killing people to be sorta... I dunno, inexcusable (at least as an amateur student of military history since the age of 9, it doesn't make a lot of sense given what soldiers actually do). "superheroes" aren't allowed to kill people but "super-soldiers" should be quite adept at killing people as the situation demands... but that's obviously well off topic.

ya you'd think he'd have broken the red skulls neck by now to make sure he was really really dead...

[PanzerMega]

To me, Dick didn't come into his own as a character as much until he became Nightwing.

Tim Drake, while technically Batman's sidekick, always seemed to be his own hero as well.

[TJEscobar]

I say neither one is better than the other, because there is a big difference in the devolpment of the charcaters. Bruce took Dick in because his life was very similiar. Tim was never really let in, he had to will himself the job. Nightwing is the natural athlete and loves the job because of the thrill. Tim Drake thinks of it as fun too because it challenges him to think. So you have the complete physical aspect of Batman in Dick, and the mental aspect in Tim. Nightwing was born for the center ring being a performer. Tim has to be a leader because the skills he shows won't allow to be a subordinate. I like how in the last Robin issue Batman shows how Tim will grow out of his shadow when he matures. And in Nightwing year one it is shown that Nightwing has to be his own man to go on with the show. So nostalgia behind, in the end it is a question whether you a bigger mix of brain then brawn, or the opposite. Both of them have plenty of both tho.

[handOFfate]

It's hard to say, to be honest. I really like both characters. I agree that both have their attributes. Dick is Batman's son for all intent purposes and the better fighter (slightly). He represents the physical aspect. Tim is Batman's student and is more intelligent and responsible. He represents the mental/detective aspect. Both are superb martial artists and natural leaders. It would be interesting to see an else-worlds story where Bruce retires and has to decide between Dick and Tim for a sucessor.

[Master Darque]

add to that the understanding that when Bruce finally retires his mantle that Dick will be the one to assume it
Dick doesn't want to be Batman . He's never expressed this ...even if he did sub for him in the 0 issues of the Bat titles .

I'm having a hard time with the Bruce-Dick/Father-Son dynamic ..... I mean , I never really did before ...but if you do the math ....ya gotta figger Bats was at least 20 when Dick's parents died ...and Dick was like 8 or 9 at the time . Flash forward ...Dick's gotta be like 25 or 26 now at LEAST ....so wow ...Bats is almost 40 ? Or is he older ? I'd figure from Bats Year One that Bruce was at least 20 before he donned the cape and cowl .....and he had to be Batman for a year or 2 before he gained his sidekick .

Dick is my favorite Robin ....ever since the plastic model of him pulling that power switch on the kid with Cyclops-like optic blasts .....but you gotta figure that Tim rated his own long running series .

[Forsaken_One]

Batman and Superman are both consistantly 32-36 years old, neither will really reach 40. Nightwing, last time I checked, was estimated at 24 years old.

[Siythe]

I give dick the agility advantage obviously but what did he ever do in a fight beyond jumping around that makes people think he was a better fighter than Tim while he the same age?

[Master Darque]

Batman and Superman are both consistantly 32-36 years old, neither will really reach 40. Nightwing, last time I checked, was estimated at 24 years old.

You should give up those useless illusions that DC has made you see . Bats has GOT to be closer ( say 37-38 ) to 40 ...and it's really NOT that hard to imagine ....Tom Cruise is around that age and is in great shape , looks young . But Dick and Bruce can't have a Father-Son like relationship if there's only 8-12 years separating them .

[Forsaken_One]

You should give up those useless illusions that DC has made you see . Bats has GOT to be closer ( say 37-38 ) to 40 ...and it's really NOT that hard to imagine ....Tom Cruise is around that age and is in great shape , looks young . But Dick and Bruce can't have a Father-Son like relationship if there's only 8-12 years separating them .
What, is this a psychological fact? I'm pretty sure a brother who's forced to raise his little brother can have a father/son relationship with the younger brother, even if he's 18 when he takes over care and his brother's 4 years old. It's dependent upon the people who are dealing with it and their respect for one another, not the age of those people.

[sikkbones]

"resists urge to make micheal jackson comment."

[boy wonder]

Dick doesn't want to be Batman . He's never expressed this ...even if he did sub for him in the 0 issues of the Bat titles .
Actually, after the whole Knightfall thing, Dick was mad at Bruce for choosing Jean Paul Valley to be Batman instead of him. That's why Dick was batman for the Prodigal storyline.

[Siythe]

Actually, after the whole Knightfall thing, Dick was mad at Bruce for choosing Jean Paul Valley to be Batman instead of him. That's why Dick was batman for the Prodigal storyline.

Yeah but that was always more about "dad" liking someone else more than him than it was anything to do with wanting to fill his shoes. Bruce's whole reason for not choosing dick was that he'd accepted that he didnt want to be Batman.

[moebius]

You should give up those useless illusions that DC has made you see . Bats has GOT to be closer ( say 37-38 ) to 40 ...and it's really NOT that hard to imagine ....Tom Cruise is around that age and is in great shape , looks young . But Dick and Bruce can't have a Father-Son like relationship if there's only 8-12 years separating them .

Bruce Wayne in "Year 1" was something like 25 years old. As of the Batman Wizard special in the mid-late 90s he's somewhere around 35, and has been Batman for about 10 years. So 37-38 is about right. There's a DC chornology that comes out every once inawhile on the Web, but I'm not sure where we're at now.

[DLH1970]

Dick doesn't want to be Batman . He's never expressed this ...even if he did sub for him in the 0 issues of the Bat titles .


Actually in the Nightwing Secret Files, Dick was telling Superman that he always thought that one day he would be Batman. Thats when Superman told him the story about the Krypton Nightwing.

[Patient Boy]

Actually in the Nightwing Secret Files, Dick was telling Superman that he always thought that one day he would be Batman. Thats when Superman told him the story about the Krypton Nightwing.

The Kryptonian Nightwing still exists post-Crisis?

[Forsaken_One]

The Kryptonian Nightwing still exists post-Crisis?
Kryptonian Nightwing exists post-crisis but Superman as Nightwing in Kandor City does not exist post-crisis. In the same vein Kryptonian Flamebird exists post-crisis but Jimmy Olson as Flamebird in Kandor does not exist post-crisis.

[The Joker]

IMO, Dick will always be the quintessential Robin. Tim is good, if not better in many ways. But Dick is just much more physically gifted than Tim. As well as being much more of a born leader than I would think Tim is really capable of.

Jason was adequate as Robin. But his wild temper, and thinking of what he was doing was in some ways, a game. Ultimately resulted in his untimely (or so we thought) demise. I liked Todd as Robin, but I really dont think he qualifies here.

Dick Grayson all the way.

[Joker2503]

I like Grayson a lot more as Nightwing than I did as Robin. There is so much mileage to get out of his and Batman's "son leaving home, trying to grow up on his own" relationship. If Bruce Wayne had an heir, it would be Dick Grayson.

If Batman had an heir, it would be Tim Drake. Despite being an assk-kicker, Batman has always valued his brains over his brawn. With that in mind, Tim makes a perfect sidekick. He sought out the job of Robin and wanted the position.

Bruce likes Dick more, Batman likes Tim more.

[hotrodimus]

my vote goes to robin burt ward..for all coming up with all those holy-- lines

[Forsaken_One]

my vote goes to robin burt ward..for all coming up with all those holy-- lines
And for saying he could kick Bruce Lee's ass!

[Master Darque]

Bruce Wayne in "Year 1" was something like 25 years old. As of the Batman Wizard special in the mid-late 90s he's somewhere around 35, and has been Batman for about 10 years. So 37-38 is about right. There's a DC chornology that comes out every once inawhile on the Web, but I'm not sure where we're at now.
Thank you . Case is rested .

If Batman had an heir, it would be Tim Drake. Despite being an assk-kicker, Batman has always valued his brains over his brawn. With that in mind, Tim makes a perfect sidekick. He sought out the job of Robin and wanted the position.
The above makes great sense .

And for saying he could kick Bruce Lee's ass!

Yet after reading Bruce Lee and the production crew of Batman's point of view , when Bruce showed up on set and Ward claimed to know a thing or two about martial arts , he was soon cowed by Lee's skills and very much afraid that Lee might accidently hit him because he was so damn fast .

[TheUnknownZombie]

I like Grayson a lot more as Nightwing than I did as Robin. There is so much mileage to get out of his and Batman's "son leaving home, trying to grow up on his own" relationship. If Bruce Wayne had an heir, it would be Dick Grayson.

If Batman had an heir, it would be Tim Drake. Despite being an assk-kicker, Batman has always valued his brains over his brawn. With that in mind, Tim makes a perfect sidekick. He sought out the job of Robin and wanted the position.

Bruce likes Dick more, Batman likes Tim more.
Dick is no slouch in the brains department. He doesn't have Tim's computer skills, but he's still a great detective. The Robins complement(ed) Batman in different ways. Tim knows his limits and is fantastic at surveillance, Dick was Batman's perfect fighting partner (the whole "well-oiled machine" thing), and Jason got himself all blowed up, letting Bruce perfect his brooding skills.

[The Joker]

And for saying he could kick Bruce Lee's ass!

:D

I remember watching Bruce Lee's bio on A&E, and according to the show Robin was infact supposed to beat Kato during the cross-over show with The Green Hornet. Bruce would have none of that, and finally the producers decided on the "standoff" we now see today.

But when you think about it, Lee had a point. How weird would it have been to see Burt Ward of all people, lay the smack down on Bruce Lee? :eek:

[Forsaken_One]

Yet after reading Bruce Lee and the production crew of Batman's point of view , when Bruce showed up on set and Ward claimed to know a thing or two about martial arts , he was soon cowed by Lee's skills and very much afraid that Lee might accidently hit him because he was so damn fast .
Did I say he could kick Bruce Lee's ass? No. No I did not. :)

[Master Darque]

Did I say he could kick Bruce Lee's ass? No. No I did not. :)
Did I say that that's what you said ? :D
I just didn't want anyone else getting the wrong idea about Burt Ward's fighting prowess ....lol .

[The Joker]

Well if you ever read Burt Ward's book, he supposedly had godlike sexual prowess. :D

[Master Darque]

:D Well hell ...I'VE got that ... but I'd never be caught saying I could take Bruce Lee on while he was alive ....

[The Joker]

:D Well hell ...I'VE got that ... but I'd never be caught saying I could take Bruce Lee on while he was alive ....

Arrogant Boy Wonder, wasnt he?