Please Tell Me if I'm Left or Right

[bartl]

There has been some discussion here about left wing vs. right wing (notably in the Terri Schiavo thread).

Frankly, I think that they are labels which are used by one extreme to paint the other extreme as evil. Personally, I have some basic principles. In any given situation, the choices available, taken to their logical conclusion, will almost always support some of these principles, and violate others. I need to determine how these balance out, and, from there, take a position, always willing to change my position if the situation changes.

Both Grant and I were "early entrants" in online discussion of comics, and he has never been shy about discussing political views, and, although we often come to different conclusions, it has always seemed to me that he uses the same methodology for coming to his conclusions.

In my case, it turns out that the choices I make coincide with the choices that the so-called "right" makes more often than the choices that the so-called "left" makes. But I see no contradiction when I come out on either side, because my first principles are kept intact.

[anthony!]

Labels are ridiculous. Its merely a way of shoe-horning a person into a philosophy so that they can be painted and discredited.

I'm pro-life, anti-euthanasia. Conservative.

I'm also anti-death penalty, anti-war and I really don't care if marijuana got legalized. Pretty left.

I'm for the abolition of federal/state definitions of marriage all-together as a way of solving the debate over gay marriage. Someone once described that attitude as Stalinist— so I don't know what that makes me.

The best way I describe myself is neither Republican or Democrat. I'm Catholic, so usually thats the answer I give.

[Steven Grant]

Traditionally, "right" means pro-capitalism and "left" means anti-capitalism, and, like most binary labels, there's not a lot of room for shading in between. But everything these days is shading, so the labels no longer have any real meaning. A lot of people are pro-general concepts of capitalism and anti-specific applications of it, even those who claim to be "right wing"...

[Dennis]

i'm libertarian right-wing, but i want to live in a leftist socialist country. i'm lazy and i want free healthcare and i want to live on the dole. are there any right-wingers who think work sucks? because it does.

[Steven Grant]

I see.

You're not anti-social.
You're only anti-work.
Glorioskis...

[Dennis]

that's why i'm a jerk!

[fumetti]

Traditionally, "right" means pro-capitalism and "left" means anti-capitalism, and, like most binary labels, there's not a lot of room for shading in between. But everything these days is shading, so the labels no longer have any real meaning. A lot of people are pro-general concepts of capitalism and anti-specific applications of it, even those who claim to be "right wing"...

Ironic in retrospect is that early pro-capitalism (late 1700s) was termed Classic Liberalism. And it would be fair to say early Christianity (1st century AD) was also a liberal movement. Yet today, these are often labeled "conservative."

Which is why I usually favor a liberal world view. Liberalism tends to win out anyway--even though it might require dying for it--and almost always for the better (19th century Europe notwithstanding).

And it's also why I have so little respect for "conservatism." Because what today's conservatives say they want to protect is usually what yesterday's conservatives insisted would destroy the fabric of society.

Today's liberal causes are tomorrow's traditional values.

[fumetti]

I'm pro-life, anti-euthanasia. Conservative.

I'm also anti-death penalty, anti-war and I really don't care if marijuana got legalized. Pretty left.

That's not being left or right. That's being consistent. It show a TRUE "pro-life" position, instead of just being anti-abortion.

I'm for the abolition of federal/state definitions of marriage all-together as a way of solving the debate over gay marriage. Someone once described that attitude as Stalinist— so I don't know what that makes me.

I don't know what Stalin said about it, but what you said has nothing to do with Marxism (which Stalin relied on). You want no government involvement in defining marriage. Marx wanted marriage abolished completely.

[fumetti]

i'm libertarian right-wing, but i want to live in a leftist socialist country. i'm lazy and i want free healthcare and i want to live on the dole. are there any right-wingers who think work sucks? because it does.

I'm independent left-wing, but I want to live in a right-wing fascist country. I'm willing to work, but I want my employer to reap all the profits and pay me peanuts, because I deserve to be working poor. Because if I really wanted money to pay for decent health care, I'd just form a corporation and lobby for pork contracts. Only the rich should get handouts from the government, right? I mean, I'd be crazy to expect my tax dollars to actually benefit MY own life...

Freedom really isn't free, y'know. It's really just a government handout. If you have freedom but you didn't pay off any politicians yourself, then you're getting freedom off somebody else's dime. And the rich is sick of paying for YOUR freedom. So it's time we accept that freedom is just another un-American Big Government program (damn those liberals!) that is probably unConstitutional and would work better if it were privatized anyway.

[WatsonGlenn]

I consider myself conservative and I admit I was shocked at the famous conservatives in radio and politics who took such a differant position from my own on the Schievo case.

[Paul McEnery]

Traditionally, "right" means pro-capitalism and "left" means anti-capitalism, and, like most binary labels, there's not a lot of room for shading in between. But everything these days is shading, so the labels no longer have any real meaning. A lot of people are pro-general concepts of capitalism and anti-specific applications of it, even those who claim to be "right wing"...
I'm not so sure about that. Wouldn't the original French parliamentary distinction be pro-authoritarian (including the monarchy) vs. pro-communitarian (albeit often bourgeois)?

I think it boils down to this distinction: property rights vs. civil rights. Where it gets fuzzy is when you start think of property rights as civil rights.

[Paul McEnery]

I consider myself conservative and I admit I was shocked at the famous conservatives in radio and politics who took such a differant position from my own on the Schievo case.
And take a leftist stance against ownership by the corporate class.

[They Call Me Evil]

Labels are so silly these days. Well, they have always been silly, but now its just a huge, inaccurate, waste of time. Not even the the "Big Two" can agree on their party lines anymore. There has always been in-party fractures, but its really bad these days. Now partisans will savage each other as easily as their traditional opponents. Any victim in a storm. Republican, Democrat, independent...no difference. I'm 'Non-Aligned' myself. If i couldn't be that, i wouldn't even bother registering.

I find this lovely! The more dissention there is, the better i like it. Let'em fall apart, nothing would make me happier. Abolish the party system all together and force people to make their own damned decisions, thank-you! Thats better than relying on paid liers to tell you how to think. Destroy that Electoral College while your at it, please. Considering how polarized the country is these days, a state's electorals are not even likely to express properly half the population of a particular views and beliefs. That makes it so easy to be bribed to vote a certain way, since we americans can't even agree what we want...why not make a buck and vote the way some company or interest group wants you to, huh?

Make it the popular vote that rules and at least its the american people who might get bribed, rather than a few weak-willed politicians. Its a step up. Until we actually directly control who gets elected, why bother?