Favourite Fantasy Authors (Other Than ... )

[Metal-Demon]

Other than the usual crew of JRR Tolkien, GRR Martin, Robert Jordan, Terry Brooks, Stephen R Donaldson, Michael Moorcock, Robert E. Howard, Terry Goodkind, Tad Williams and all the other usual "popular/big name" writers ... who are your favourite lesser known/rarely discussed fantasy authors?

Some of mine are:

Robin Hobb
John Marco
Fritz Lieber
Sean Russell
Glen Cook
Steven Erikson
David Farland
M.A.R. Barker

[Shem the Penman]

Erikson. Cook. Jack Vance. Tanith Lee. China Mieville. Jane Gaskell. Michael Coney. Andrew Offutt. Karl Edward Wagner.

Can't stand Hobb, although I admit all I read was the Assassin trilogy.

There's also a hell of a lot of good fantasy out there that's marketed for kids and young adults, other than Harry Potter -- e.g. Susan Cooper, Philip Pullman, John Bellairs, Diane Duane, Lloyd Alexander, Diana Wynne Jones ...

[Metal-Demon]

Nice list Shem ... I forgot to include Jack Vance (and even the mighty Gene Wolfe!!) to my list.

[Bakema NL]

I'm a sucker for Terry Pratchett and his Discworld books.........but he's no small fry to be honest. But there are people who don't like the humorous tone in fantasy, but this is great stuff I must say, especially Rincewind is a great stupid character. :)

[Metal-Demon]

I've never felt the need to read any of Terry Pratchett's material ... maybe because the humour element is supposedly quite a large part of his writing style, and that doesn't appeal to me. :)

[Bakema NL]

That's ok. I for one really like the dry English humour in it. A lot of times you read it and have to re-read a sentence to really get the joke.

I forgot about another series..........the Vampire earth saga by E. E. Knight, 3 books are out at the moment, Way of the wolf, Choice of the cat and Tale of the Thunderbolt. Vampires, but set in a post-apocalyptic world (America) overrun by Kurian lords who live off the human life aura's. These are not the traditional vampires you are most used to. I think the series is even heading to sci-fi, some humans get kind of superpowers through alien lifeweavers, you have Wolves with extra stamina and heightened senses, Cats who are for recon jobs, able to see in the dark, agility etc and there are Bears, who are strong enough to go toe to toe with the Reapers who do the Kurians' dirty jobs. There's a lot more to the story and quite a few unexpected surprises along the way, great series so far. Here's an interview with Eric Knight..... http://www.atfantasy.com/view/79

[kane]

That's ok. I for one really like the dry English humour in it. A lot of times you read it and have to re-read a sentence to really get the joke.

I forgot about another series..........the Vampire earth saga by E. E. Knight


Yes, the vampire earth saga is fun to read.

I also like Michael Stackpole, David Gemmell, David Eddings (but only the Belgarion and Bhelliom stuff), Karl Edward Wagner, William King (but only the space marines stuff with ragnar).

[Ilash]

Seeing as how this is a comics board saying Peter David is small fry may be a bit strange but he definitely is in the long run and I absolutely love his Sir Apropros books.

[Ilash]

I also like Michael Stackpole

I really liked his Star Wars books but I was never sure about his fantasy book so it's good to see you give him a thumbs up. Which of his stuff do you recommend? What kind of fantasy does he write? How are his characters? I've been considering checking his fantasy stuff out so any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Karl J. Barnes]

I really liked his Star Wars books but I was never sure about his fantasy book so it's good to see you give him a thumbs up. Which of his stuff do you recommend? What kind of fantasy does he write? How are his characters? I've been considering checking his fantasy stuff out so any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Read Once A Hero , a nice change of pace from noble elves and unstoppable heroes.

[Karl J. Barnes]

To add to the fine list already mentioned, I wpuld like to add: Garth Nix, Brian Jacques, Piers Anthony(Loved his first three Xanth novels!!), Robert Asprin(Myth Adventures), C S Friedman, C J Cherryh, , Chris Bunch, Barbra Hambley and Simon R. Green.

[berk]

E.R. Eddison
Roger Zelazny (if you count the Amber books as fantasy)
Kenneth Grahame (for The WInd in the Willows)
Kipling did some good stuff

[Karl J. Barnes]

E.R. Eddison
Roger Zelazny (if you count the Amber books as fantasy)
Kenneth Grahame (for The WInd in the Willows)
Kipling did some good stuff

Oh, I love Eddison and Zelazny!!!

[Deathstroke]

Jennifer Roberson
Kristen Britain
Mindy L. Klasky
Maggie Furey
Kate Elliott
David Gemmell
Barb & JC Hendee
Robin Hobb
Peter David

[Deathstroke]

Seeing as how this is a comics board saying Peter David is small fry may be a bit strange but he definitely is in the long run and I absolutely love his Sir Apropros books.

I love PAD's books as well.

[Blueferret]

Other than the usual crew of JRR Tolkien, GRR Martin, Robert Jordan, Terry Brooks, Stephen R Donaldson, Michael Moorcock, Robert E. Howard, Terry Goodkind, Tad Williams and all the other usual "popular/big name" writers ... who are your favourite lesser known/rarely discussed fantasy authors?

Some of mine are:

Robin Hobb
John Marco
Fritz Lieber
Sean Russell
Glen Cook
Steven Erikson
David Farland
M.A.R. Barker

I agree about Marco as well. His Tyrants and Kings trilogy was great. Farlands Runelords series was well done also. I'd also add Greg Keyes to this list. I really like his current series beginning with the Briar King.

[Doodle Bob]

To add to the fine list already mentioned, ... Piers Anthony(Loved his first three Xanth novels!!), Robert Asprin(Myth Adventures),

You know the world has changed significantly around you when someone mentions either Piers Anthony or Robert Asprin as "lesser known" authors.

Some authors that I enjoy but haven't popped up yet: Michael Swanwick ("The Iron Dragon's Daughter" is a masterpiece of deconstructionist fantasy), John Crowley ("Little, Big" is very enjoyable although a bit precious, read while listening to Kate Bush), R. A. Lafferty (it's been many years but the Damiano series -- about a musician and his angel companion in a medievalish type of world -- was quite enjoyable; I also liked "Tea with Black Dragon" -- sic?).

I also just read the Anubis Gates by Tim Powers, which is what you might call Dickensian Fantasy (although it occurs mostly a few decades before Dickens' prime).

Finally, let me reiterate praise for at least the first part of Glen Cook's Black Company Series. Although one can read it as a straight-forward fantasy romp, I was always amused by his need to turn every fantasy cliche on its head creating a world where even the good guys are really not that good. You all may disagree but I rather wish he'd stopped writing the series after the subseries regarding Raven.

[UniqueFrequency]

Seeing as how this is a comics board saying Peter David is small fry may be a bit strange but he definitely is in the long run and I absolutely love his Sir Apropros books.

i liked sir apropos of nothing, but the woad to wuin wasn't as good, imho

[Solaris]

Jody Lynn Nye (Her "Mythology" books are hysterically funny in places---and not to be confused w/Asprin's "Myth" series).

Elizabeth Hayden

Mercedes Lackey (she's big, but you left her off your "big" list!) ;)

Elizabeth Moon (and darn it, I wish she'd leave the sf series alone for a while and write more about her "Paksennarrion" character. Best book on a female Paladin I've ever read).

I enjoyed most of Alan Dean Foster's "Spellsinger" series... there's some funny stuff in that, too.

Patricia McKillip

Robin McKinley

Tamora Pierce

Katherine Kurtz and Deborah Harris's "Adept" series---would love to see more titles in it.

Those are some I can think of right off the bat. Interesting how so many on my, and other, lists, are female writers. :) I think women have made fantasy pretty much 50/50, in terms of gender of the author. That's kinda nice to see.

[kane]

I really liked his Star Wars books but I was never sure about his fantasy book so it's good to see you give him a thumbs up. Which of his stuff do you recommend? What kind of fantasy does he write? How are his characters? I've been considering checking his fantasy stuff out so any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Michael Stackpole wrote some stand-alone novels, my favorite one is Talion: revenant http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553576569/qid=1112622908/sr=1-10/ref=sr_1_10/104-4165004-6093517?v=glance&s=books

Then there is the dragon crown war cycle (4 books) and a new trilogy "the age of discovery" with the first part out now "a secret atlas". Both i recommend too.

[Slam_Bradley]

He's lesser known now, though he was a master of the genre. Manly Wade Wellman is probably my favorite fantasy author. His work is so well grounded in the folklore of the American South that it's like a history lesson to read.

[Scott Beeler]

Some authors that I enjoy but haven't popped up yet: Michael Swanwick ("The Iron Dragon's Daughter" is a masterpiece of deconstructionist fantasy), John Crowley ("Little, Big" is very enjoyable although a bit precious, read while listening to Kate Bush), R. A. Lafferty (it's been many years but the Damiano series -- about a musician and his angel companion in a medievalish type of world -- was quite enjoyable; I also liked "Tea with Black Dragon" -- sic?).

You mean R.A. MacAvoy. _Tea with the Black Dragon_ is indeed a very nice book; fantasy dragon inserted into Silicon Valley mystery novel. It's the only thing of hers (his?) I've read, though I've got the sequel, _Twisting the Rope_, in my unread pile.

I agree about Swanwick, though I've mostly read his short stories (many of which are science fiction also). "Radio Waves" is my favorite. Crowley I've been meaning to read but haven't got to yet.

I also just read the Anubis Gates by Tim Powers, which is what you might call Dickensian Fantasy (although it occurs mostly a few decades before Dickens' prime).

Excellent stuff. As is _Last Call_. Definitely a favorite fantasy author of mine.

I'd also include (some of whom have already been mentioned):
Sean Stewart (_Mockingbird_, _Resurrection Man_, _Perfect Circle_...)
Steven Brust (Vlad Taltos series, _Agyar_, _The Sun, the Moon, and the Stars_...)
China Mieville (_Perdido Street Station_ etc.)
William Browning Spencer (_Zod Wallop_, _Resume With Monsters_...)
Roger Zelazny (especially _Lord of Light_ and his short fiction, though I suppose those could be classed more as science fiction)
P.C. Hodgell (_God Stalk_, _Dark of the Moon_ -- together in _Dark of the Gods_ omnibus -- etc.)
Michael Shea (_Nifft the Lean_, etc.)
Jeff Noon (_Vurt_, _Pollen_, _Needle in the Groove_ -- sort of fantasy/science fiction hybrids)
Barry Hughart (_A Bridge of Birds_, etc.)

Some up-and-comers who don't have a huge amount published yet but are very good and well worth watching: Andy Duncan, Kelly Link, Alexander Irvine, Jeff Vandermeer.

I tend to like more oddball sorts of books, so I don't read so much of the Big Medievaloid Epic Fantasy series. Many of the above write modern-set fantasy, or in other cultures/eras, or (in my opinion) more strange and inventive constructed settings.

[Scott Beeler]

Michael Stackpole wrote some stand-alone novels, my favorite one is Talion: revenant http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553576569/qid=1112622908/sr=1-10/ref=sr_1_10/104-4165004-6093517?v=glance&s=books

Then there is the dragon crown war cycle (4 books) and a new trilogy "the age of discovery" with the first part out now "a secret atlas". Both i recommend too.

I haven't read those recent series yet, but I do really like _Once a Hero_ and _Talion: Revenant_ a lot. Also, though science fiction not fantasy, his Fiddleback Trilogy. Good stuff if you're in the mood for guns-blazing RPG-derived fiction.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Katherine Kurtz and Deborah Harris's "Adept" series---would love to see more titles in it.

.

I like Kurtz' King Ketson novels(Dernyi(sp??) better.

[Solaris]

You mean R.A. MacAvoy. _Tea with the Black Dragon_ is indeed a very nice book; fantasy dragon inserted into Silicon Valley mystery novel. It's the only thing of hers (his?) I've read, though I've got the sequel, _Twisting the Rope_, in my unread pile.

I agree about Swanwick, though I've mostly read his short stories (many of which are science fiction also). "Radio Waves" is my favorite. Crowley I've been meaning to read but haven't got to yet.



Excellent stuff. As is _Last Call_. Definitely a favorite fantasy author of mine.

I'd also include (some of whom have already been mentioned):
Sean Stewart (_Mockingbird_, _Resurrection Man_, _Perfect Circle_...)
Steven Brust (Vlad Taltos series, _Agyar_, _The Sun, the Moon, and the Stars_...)
China Mieville (_Perdido Street Station_ etc.)
William Browning Spencer (_Zod Wallop_, _Resume With Monsters_...)
Roger Zelazny (especially _Lord of Light_ and his short fiction, though I suppose those could be classed more as science fiction)
P.C. Hodgell (_God Stalk_, _Dark of the Moon_ -- together in _Dark of the Gods_ omnibus -- etc.)
Michael Shea (_Nifft the Lean_, etc.)
Jeff Noon (_Vurt_, _Pollen_, _Needle in the Groove_ -- sort of fantasy/science fiction hybrids)
Barry Hughart (_A Bridge of Birds_, etc.)

Some up-and-comers who don't have a huge amount published yet but are very good and well worth watching: Andy Duncan, Kelly Link, Alexander Irvine, Jeff Vandermeer.

I tend to like more oddball sorts of books, so I don't read so much of the Big Medievaloid Epic Fantasy series. Many of the above write modern-set fantasy, or in other cultures/eras, or (in my opinion) more strange and inventive constructed settings.



Argh! I forgot Barry Hughart, and he's one of my favorites! Thanks. :)

[Gordon Smith]

He's lesser known now, though he was a master of the genre. Manly Wade Wellman is probably my favorite fantasy author. His work is so well grounded in the folklore of the American South that it's like a history lesson to read.

And let us not forget Clark Ashton Smith or Lord Dunsany. I might also mention that Poul Anderson was a writer of fantasy as well as science fiction.

[Slam_Bradley]

And let us not forget Clark Ashton Smith or Lord Dunsany. I might also mention that Poul Anderson was a writer of fantasy as well as science fiction.


Anderson's fantasies are some of the few that I can still read. The Broken Sword is an unqualified classic.

[Gordon Smith]

Anderson's fantasies are some of the few that I can still read. The Broken Sword is an unqualified classic.

Sadly, the Broken Sword seems to be virtually forgotten now.

[Tobias March]

H.P. Lovecraft, Arthur Machen, Philip Pullman, Mervyn Peake, Jonathon Carroll, Hope Mirlees, I liked the Onion Girl by Charles De Lint....the list goes on.

[Tobias March]

Oh and John Kendrick Bangs' "The Houseboat on the River Styxx", is just....fun :D

[CaptMagellan]

David Gemmell (for heroic fantasy)
Sara Douglas (for epic)
Stephen Grundy (for mythic retellings)
Joel Rosenberg (for his characterization and interpersonal situations)

[Shellhead]

Roger Zelazny (if you count the Amber books as fantasy)

Of course I count the Amber books as fantasy... it has swords (Grayswandir, Werewindle, etc.) and sorcery (Brand, Fiona, Dworkin, etc.).

My list:

Roger Zelazny
Fritz Leiber
Barry Hughart
Jack Vance
Glen Cook

Glen Cook is kind of a guilty pleasure. He took a film noir/Raymond Chandler tough guy style and transplanted it into a relatively standard fantasy setting, and it turned into something special. But the Raven plotline did run out of control, it was like the guy was a medieval version of Batman. And the later books of the South got overly bloated with plot twists and repetitive tough guy posturing. Still, it was worth the time and money to read that series, especially my favorite, The Silver Spike.

[Deathstroke]

Mercedes Lackey (she's big, but you left her off your "big" list!) ;)

I love her Arrow trilogy


Elizabeth Moon (and darn it, I wish she'd leave the sf series alone for a while and write more about her "Paksennarrion" character. Best book on a female Paladin I've ever read).

Be afraid, be very afraid, we are in total agreement about The Deed of Paksenarrion!


Robin McKinley

I've read some of her stuff, it was okay, but didn't competely make me a fan.

[Indigo Al]

Patricia McKillip



She is a prophet and a guru. I still dream of an animated Forgotten Beasts of Eld.

[Solaris]

I love her Arrow trilogy

I love a lot of her work, including a couple of really cool short stories about a British boarding house and a parrot named "Grey". Would love to see her do a book about those characters.



Be afraid, be very afraid, we are in total agreement about The Deed of Paksenarrion!

Hee. :)

I've read the Gird and Luap books... and yeah, it bugs me that she stopped it there, after implying at the end of both the Luap and the Deed book that Paks does a whole lot more. For instance, there's those folks who kidnapped the Prince of Lyonya in the first place... and that household in Aere... argh.

The thing I loved about Deed the most (aside from the great stuff about infantry fighting) is how it shows the progression from mercenary to paladin, and the paladin mindset. Wonderful book.

RE: R. McKinley

{quote]I've read some of her stuff, it was okay, but didn't competely make me a fan.[/QUOTE]

My favorites were "The Blue Sword" and "The Hero and the Crown," but I also liked "Deerskin" (though it was pretty dark), and several of her shorts. Blue Sword is my favorite... and it reminded me quite a bit of some other works, in some of the thematic elements re: the countries, including Garth Nix's Sabriel trilogy, the Harry Potter Books, and the historical England/India occupation. I'd like to see a story about the Homeland, though, and also some MAPS! I have a primal need for maps, with fantasy books. Helps me visualize stuff. ;)

[Solaris]

She is a prophet and a guru. I still dream of an animated Forgotten Beasts of Eld.

That, and the Riddlemaster Trilogy, are my favorites by her. Y'know, Eld would make a good CG animation... :D

[Jack]

No one mentioned Guy Gavriel Kay? That is simply criminal.

The Fionavar Tapestry is basically perfect in every way.

[saintjon]

LOL it's hard for me to think of GGK as lesser known, he's like the elephant in my fantasy living room lol.

I'll second the mentions of Gene Wolfe, Steven Erikson, C.S. Friedman, Kate Elliot (with an !), and Greg Keyes.

I'd also like to add R. Scott Bakker to the list. He's really new, the two books of The Prince of Nothing are his first two ever, but he writes like a seasoned pro, hell better than some of the seasoned pros out there. The Darkness That Comes Before is out in the States now you guys should give it a look!

www.princeofnothing.com

[Jack]

LOL it's hard for me to think of GGK as lesser known, he's like the elephant in my fantasy living room lol. Heh, even if it's just to eliminate him he needs to be mentioned. All the time. Everywhere.

[saintjon]

Man, check out that link I put up and try telling me those aren't the sexiest covers you've ever seen on a fantasy book though LOL. The author told me he was sitting in his hotel room staring at this copy of The Warrior-Prophet they game him thinking "So this is what a stalker feels like" lol

Speaking of Kay did you hear David Zwyck's making a Lions of Al-Rassan movie?

[Taltos]

I'd also include (some of whom have already been mentioned):
Sean Stewart (_Mockingbird_, _Resurrection Man_, _Perfect Circle_...)
Steven Brust (Vlad Taltos series, _Agyar_, _The Sun, the Moon, and the Stars_...)
China Mieville (_Perdido Street Station_ etc.)
William Browning Spencer (_Zod Wallop_, _Resume With Monsters_...)
Roger Zelazny (especially _Lord of Light_ and his short fiction, though I suppose those could be classed more as science fiction)
P.C. Hodgell (_God Stalk_, _Dark of the Moon_ -- together in _Dark of the Gods_ omnibus -- etc.)
Michael Shea (_Nifft the Lean_, etc.)
Jeff Noon (_Vurt_, _Pollen_, _Needle in the Groove_ -- sort of fantasy/science fiction hybrids)
Barry Hughart (_A Bridge of Birds_, etc.)


Steven Brust is the MAN!!

[Jack]

I love a lot of her work, including a couple of really cool short stories about a British boarding house and a parrot named "Grey". Would love to see her do a book about those characters.





Hee. :)

I've read the Gird and Luap books... and yeah, it bugs me that she stopped it there, after implying at the end of both the Luap and the Deed book that Paks does a whole lot more. For instance, there's those folks who kidnapped the Prince of Lyonya in the first place... and that household in Aere... argh.

The thing I loved about Deed the most (aside from the great stuff about infantry fighting) is how it shows the progression from mercenary to paladin, and the paladin mindset. Wonderful book.

RE: R. McKinley

{quote]I've read some of her stuff, it was okay, but didn't competely make me a fan.

My favorites were "The Blue Sword" and "The Hero and the Crown," but I also liked "Deerskin" (though it was pretty dark), and several of her shorts. Blue Sword is my favorite... and it reminded me quite a bit of some other works, in some of the thematic elements re: the countries, including Garth Nix's Sabriel trilogy, the Harry Potter Books, and the historical England/India occupation. I'd like to see a story about the Homeland, though, and also some MAPS! I have a primal need for maps, with fantasy books. Helps me visualize stuff. ;)[/QUOTE]
While the Deed of Paksenarrion is a truly wonderful book/trilogy, I've never found any of Moon's later fantasy (or sci-fi for that matter) work all that gripping.

[Karl J. Barnes]

My favorites were "The Blue Sword" and "The Hero and the Crown," but I also liked "Deerskin" (though it was pretty dark), and several of her shorts. Blue Sword is my favorite... and it reminded me quite a bit of some other works, in some of the thematic elements re: the countries, including Garth Nix's Sabriel trilogy, the Harry Potter Books, and the historical England/India occupation. I'd like to see a story about the Homeland, though, and also some MAPS! I have a primal need for maps, with fantasy books. Helps me visualize stuff. ;)
While the Deed of Paksenarrion is a truly wonderful book/trilogy, I've never found any of Moon's later fantasy (or sci-fi for that matter) work all that gripping.[/QUOTE]

Once A Hero(?) wasn't too bad, but not too continue reading the series.

[saintjon]

I've got the start of one of the Vlad Taltos series' in hardcover, I'd heard a lot of good stuff about Brust online and they were selling the hardcover for 6 bucks at chapter's. That was a good trip to the bookstore all told.

[Dee3]

Marion Zimmer Bradley

Jennifer Roberson.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Robin Hobb.
Beautiful books.

Raymond Feist.
Probably counts as one of the big names, and his later work pales in comparison, but I can't get enough of it.

Sara Douglass.
Didn't like her first two series, but The Crucible series was absolutley fantastic.
Great spin on actual history, around the time of the black plague.
Fine spin on why the church started losing powers, and scinece started to take over.
And it has nice epic battles and demons and sex and love and everything else a fantasy should have.
Great twists also.

Whoever wrote "THE CURSE OF CHALION".
Well, only ever read that book, but shit it was great.
A nice self contained fantasy book, great lead character, and more talking than action, yet twice as exciting as most fantasy books.

David Eddings.
Got me into fantasy books, so the Belgariad holds a special spot in me heart.
As did the first Sparhawk series (until the third book where they stopped time).
Both series lost in their second series (Sparhawk majorly), but I still soldiered on cause the characters were so good.
The Belegarath showed a return to form, then Polgara.... well, I never finished it.
That Althalus book though..... crikey I hated that book.
It was like rolling around in honey, and then jumping into sacks of sugar.
It was just to damn sweet, and you never felt any bit of threat to any of the characters.

[Jack]

Whoever wrote "THE CURSE OF CHALION".
Well, only ever read that book, but shit it was great.
A nice self contained fantasy book, great lead character, and more talking than action, yet twice as exciting as most fantasy books.Lois McMaster Bujold. Not a lightweight sci-fi author by any definition, but for fantasy she probably still counts. There was another Chalion book written though by the way - Paladin of Souls.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Lois McMaster Bujold. Not a lightweight sci-fi author by any definition, but for fantasy she probably still counts. There was another Chalion book written though by the way - Paladin of Souls.

Yeah, but the first book was self contained and I was happier to think of it that way.

Second book carries on the story of a somewhat minor, though kinda important, character from the first book.
couldn't quite muster the enthusiasm to read it.

[Puma]

Since folks covered most of the writers of adult works I go to those writing for children and young adults:

Patricia Wrede
Susan Cooper
Robert Pullman
Diane Duane
Diane Wynn Jones
Eoin Colfer

[Gabriel]

J Gregory Keyes- The Age of Unreason series is probably one of the most original stories I have ever read.
Neil Gaiman- I know he's huge in comics and has won many awrds for his books, he only has about 3.5 novels under his belt (Neverwhere, Stardust, American Gods, and his joint effort w/ Terry Pratchett, Good Omens)

[Blueferret]

David Eddings.
Got me into fantasy books, so the Belgariad holds a special spot in me heart.
As did the first Sparhawk series (until the third book where they stopped time).
Both series lost in their second series (Sparhawk majorly), but I still soldiered on cause the characters were so good.
The Belegarath showed a return to form, then Polgara.... well, I never finished it.
That Althalus book though..... crikey I hated that book.
It was like rolling around in honey, and then jumping into sacks of sugar.
It was just to damn sweet, and you never felt any bit of threat to any of the characters.

I agree about Eddings. I first discovered Eddings when I was in junior high and I thought the Belgariad was great. I picked up Athalus also, and felt the same way you do, nothing ever really threatened the characters. I think compared to other authors of today, his work seems geared more toward a younger audience, which is how I viewed Athalus.

Did any get his new series?

[Rachel Grey]

Ray Feist
Sara Douglass
Elaine Cunningham
Charles DeLint

[Kirayoshi]

Another vote for Mercedes Lackey. I especially enjoy her urban fantasies.

In a similar vein, Elizabeth Anne Scarborough's Godmother series.

Orson Scott Card may be better known for science fiction, but you're cheating yourself if you don't check out his Tales of Alvin Maker series. A blend of fantasy and American history, with its rules of magic based on early American folklore and native tribal myths and beliefs.

And how come no one's mentioned Neil Gaiman yet? American Gods? Neverwhere? Good Omens(with Terry Prachett)? Pure gold!

[Master Darque]

Gregory Maguire . Love how he twists childhood fairy tales .....my favorite of his stuff has to be Wicked : The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West . I watch the movie now and cheer for the poor witch !

Also ...Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality series , especially Bearing an Hourglass ( I love time travel and all the paradox and headache of it ! )

Bradbury . Never got into Asimov , tho .

[Ottmeister X]

Glen Cook

Glen Cook is kind of a guilty pleasure. He took a film noir/Raymond Chandler tough guy style and transplanted it into a relatively standard fantasy setting, and it turned into something special. But the Raven plotline did run out of control, it was like the guy was a medieval version of Batman. And the later books of the South got overly bloated with plot twists and repetitive tough guy posturing. Still, it was worth the time and money to read that series, especially my favorite, The Silver Spike.

So does the quality of writing improve? I'm reading The Black Company and it's intriguing enough I guess, but the quality of writing is average at best. I don't mean to slam Cook since I'm sure getting published is quite the accomplishment in itself, but I find his prose weaker than some of the other fantasy authors I read.

I can see where Erikson could have got some of his inspiration. It seems like he took Cook's type of idea and then expanded upon it with a lot of detail.

[BcAugust]

Hmm, a lot have said my favorites... Mercedes Lackey, Manly Wade Wellman, Diane Duane(Whose Wizard series just took a major turn, though I want another cat book. And Stealing the Elf King's Roses was just fun).

Tanya Huff is one I'm surprised not to see more often. Yeah, her first two books weren't that great(Usually sold as Child of the Grove omibus), but her later stuff is great. The Keeper series is great for modern day fantasy, fairly humorous.

Paladin of Souls is better then Curse of Chalion, in my opinion... But avoid the Wild Hunt like the plague. Worse case of a series going off track I can remember. ouch.

[Expletive Deleted]

So does the quality of writing improve? I'm reading The Black Company and it's intriguing enough I guess, but the quality of writing is average at best.The first three books are pretty consistent, quality-wise. The later books take a bit of a dive.

The first four Garret books are pretty good, too.

[Doc Shannara]

I like a lot of the authors already mentioned, like Gaiman, David, Green, Erikson, Russell, Keyes...

But Jim Butcher is probably my favorite fantasy author.

He's finally being published in hardcover, so I guess he's not obscure anymore, but I don't know if he's a big name yet...certainly not as big as he deserves to be.

[Jay]

China Mieville
Jeff Vandermeer
Jeffrey Ford
Michale Cisco
Jeffrey Thomas
Catherynne M. Valente
Kelly Link
Matthew Stover
Scott Lynch (debut comes in July, it's called The Lies of Locke Lamora, I read this last year, it's absolutely one of the amazing debuts of 2006)
Susanna Clarke
Hal Duncan
R. Scott Bakker
John C. Wright
Mark Z. Danielewski
Justina Robson
K.J. Bishop
Steph Swainston
Tobias Buckell
Nick Mamatas
Zoran Zivkovic
David Marusek
Ken Macleod
Kiji Johnson
Matthew Rossi
Conrad Wiliams
Daniel Abraham
Chris Roberson
Jay Lake
Tim Pratt
Charles Stross
Cherie Priest
Ian R. Macleod
Hollly Phillips
Theodroa Goss
caro lEmshwiller
Johnathan Carroll
Tim Powers
David Marusek
Steve Aylett
Ian R. Macleod
Lucius Harris
Richard Morgan
Anna Tambour
Tamar Yellin
Margo Lanagan
Scott Westefield
Paul Witcover
Sarah Monette
Jon Courtenay-Grimwood
L. Timmel Duchamp
David Kalstein
Joe Hill
James Blaylock
Brooks Hansen
John M. Ford
Neil Gaiman
J.G. Ballard

To name a few

[GozertheGozarian]

I'm way out of the age demographic now, but I still can't resist picking up a Lloyd Alexander book whenever possible.

[Shellhead]

So does the quality of writing improve? I'm reading The Black Company and it's intriguing enough I guess, but the quality of writing is average at best. I don't mean to slam Cook since I'm sure getting published is quite the accomplishment in itself, but I find his prose weaker than some of the other fantasy authors I read.

I can see where Erikson could have got some of his inspiration. It seems like he took Cook's type of idea and then expanded upon it with a lot of detail.

In general, Cook's strengths are plots and dialogue. He also has a strong though cynical grasp of human nature, and some interesting ideas about magic. But the quality of his writing itself is more workmanlike than artistic in quality. A few too many of the main characters are both clever and tough. I hear that this series is particularly popular with troops and veterans who have served in either Vietnam or the Gulf, because Cook does a great job of showing you the point of view of the enlisted men or the low-ranking officers that lead them into battle.

The Black Company series starts strong, for the first four books, in my opinion. The eighth book, She is the Darkness, is also really good, but otherwise the later books aren't quite as good as the first four. Balanced against that, there is some searing imagery, some very cool fantasy elements, and some great plot twists.

If you love the first few books, you will enjoy the whole series. If you thought the first book was just okay, I would recommend stopping at book four, The Silver Spike... it's just as good as the books before it, and is a good stopping point because it covers the final adventures of some of the characters in the early books. From there, the subsequent books deal with the rest of the characters from the early books, and their adventures in a different section of the world.

[Inkthinker]

I'm totally digging Glen Cook right now... I've been a longtime fan of the Garret books, but only recently did I begin to really get into The Black Company.

I like that I can recognize a good amount of Garret in Croaker (or is it the other way around?), but I'm only starting on The White Rose right now. I'm a little disappointed knowing Croaker dies somewhere in the next few books, but it's hard to avoid spoilers for a series almost 20 years old. And besides, he's getting older and the series tends to cover a good deal of time, so it's rather inevitable anyhow. As it is, I don't know the circumstances, or even which book, so it's still kind of exciting to read each one, wondering "is this it?".

Pratchett is mine LORD AND MASTER, but technically he's a "big-name" author... at least overseas. I don't feel he's gotten half the popularity he deserves in the US, though it's certainly gotten a lot better since '89 when I found my first copy of The Colour of Magic. At any rate, I think even his bad books are better than most anything on the shelf... I think Monstrous Regiment is my least favorite, if only because by the 6th or 7th time someone's "big secret" is revealed, it's just gotten silly. Not silly-fun, either, just sorta silly-dull.

I like Bill King's "Felix and Gotrek" Warhammer novels. I think they're awesomely pulpy "gothic high fantasy", completely unrepentant. Dwarves are all natural geologists lusting for gold, elves are all snooty near-immortal prettybitches, goblins are about as goblinny as you can get, and the whole thing is drenched in gory violence.

[Expletive Deleted]

I'm a little disappointed knowing Croaker dies somewhere in the next few books, but it's hard to avoid spoilers for a series almost 20 years old.If it makes you feel any better, that's barely the tip of the iceberg.

Certain things in the later books get . . . somewhat complicated.

[DLH1970]

A few of my favorites.

Margaret Weis
Tracey Hickman
Jennifer Roberson
Troy Denning

[Expletive Deleted]

Reversing Inkthinker, I read the "Black Company" books a few years ago, but I didn't get into the "Garrett" series until just recently. Overall, I'm really impressed. Cook does a great job of building his fantasy world while still telling great mystery stories. Some of the later books (I just finished FADED STEEL HEAT) get a bit bloated, but they're never dull. The first four are probably the best. Just taut, effective thrillers.

I've been really big on Erikson lately. Erikson and Esslemont put a lot of thought into their world, and it shows. No elves, no dwarves, and absolutely none of that tired Euro-centric chivalric stuff. Interesting cosmology and fascinatingly thorough anthropology. The "Malazan" series is six novels and three novellas along, and it's not slowing down or dropping in quality.

Simon Green does pulpy space opera, pulpy high fantasy, and pulpy modern fantasy, but he does it in such a way that I simply can't resist it. I don't know if it's the banter, the action, or the volume of ideas, but pretty much everything he's written is a ton and a half of fun.

I've only read two books from China Mieville, but PERDIDO STREET STATION and THE SCAR are incredible. Yeah, he's got an attitude and he's insulted Tolkein, but . . . well, he's written a couple of really good, unique fantasy novels.

Not everything Lois Bujold has written trips my trigger, but when she's on (MEMORY, A CIVIL CAMPAIGN, CURSE OF CHALION), she's on.

And, of course, there's always Pratchett. MONSTROUS REGIMENT and the second Tiffany Aching book didn't do much for me, but THUD . . . the more times I read it, the better it gets. I was initially kind of down on it because I thought it repeated some themes from earlier Watch novels, but it's so much richer than that.

[Legato]

She's not by anymeans lesser known but you definitly forgot to add J.K Rowling on your list of famous authors.


I like C.S Lewis Narnia books. They are no LOTR but the series is good in it's own way.

Im growing to like Pratchetts Discworld series. My favorite character so far is Granny Weatherwax.

[Shem the Penman]

I've been really big on Erikson lately. Erikson and Esslemont put a lot of thought into their world, and it shows. No elves, no dwarves, and absolutely none of that tired Euro-centric chivalric stuff. Interesting cosmology and fascinatingly thorough anthropology. The "Malazan" series is six novels and three novellas along, and it's not slowing down or dropping in quality.

Six? Hey, that's right -- The Bonehunters is finally out!

I've only read two books from China Mieville, but PERDIDO STREET STATION and THE SCAR are incredible. Yeah, he's got an attitude and he's insulted Tolkein, but . . . well, he's written a couple of really good, unique fantasy novels.

Insulted Tolkien how?

(Although he's hardly unique there. In Wizardry and Wild Romance, Moorcock dedicates an entire chapter to ripping on Tolkien and Lewis.)

[Inkthinker]

Reversing Inkthinker, I read the "Black Company" books a few years ago, but I didn't get into the "Garrett" series until just recently. Overall, I'm really impressed. Cook does a great job of building his fantasy world while still telling great mystery stories. Some of the later books (I just finished FADED STEEL HEAT) get a bit bloated, but they're never dull. The first four are probably the best. Just taut, effective thrillers.

Do yourself a favor and avoid Angry Lead Skies, or save it 'till you run out of the rest. It was, for some reason, very dumb... can't say more without spoiling it, but trust me... it's more or less best left out, you won't miss anything.

:D

The problem with the Garrett books, at least so far as I've seen, is that he's kinda run it up to a point where he can't do much more with it unless he's willing to make major changes that would force it outside of the pulp noir formula he's parodying. As much as I want more Garrett books, I kinda understand why he's largely stopped writing them.

[sheets]

Insulted Tolkien how?

(Although he's hardly unique there. In Wizardry and Wild Romance, Moorcock dedicates an entire chapter to ripping on Tolkien and Lewis.)

Some might describe Mieville as an acolyte of Moorcock's as his anti-Tolkien arguments are extremely similar to what Moorcock wrote in his essay.

[Expletive Deleted]

Six? Hey, that's right -- The Bonehunters is finally out!Yep! Thank heavens for the internet. Now staggered international release dates are only a minor inconvenience.Insulted Tolkien how?"Tolkien is the wen on the arse of fantasy literature. His oeuvre is massive and contagious - you can't ignore it, so don't even try. The best you can do is consciously try to lance the boil. And there's a lot to dislike - his cod-Wagnerian pomposity, his boys-own-adventure glorying in war, his small-minded and reactionary love for hierarchical status-quos, his belief in absolute morality that blurs moral and political complexity. Tolkien's clichés - elves 'n' dwarfs 'n' magic rings - have spread like viruses. He wrote that the function of fantasy was 'consolation', thereby making it an article of policy that a fantasy writer should mollycoddle the reader." - China Mieville (http://www.panmacmillan.com/features/china/debate.htm)

I don't particularly have a problem with it either, but I remember we had some sort of kerfuffle around here the last time it came up. Some folks are protective of Tolkien.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Do yourself a favor and avoid Angry Lead Skies, or save it 'till you run out of the rest. It was, for some reason, very dumb... can't say more without spoiling it, but trust me... it's more or less best left out, you won't miss anything.

:D

The problem with the Garrett books, at least so far as I've seen, is that he's kinda run it up to a point where he can't do much more with it unless he's willing to make major changes that would force it outside of the pulp noir formula he's parodying. As much as I want more Garrett books, I kinda understand why he's largely stopped writing them.

I agree with both paragraphs. Angry Lead Skies was to be kind a limp effort. Though I did enjoy Whispering Nickel Gods as it got back to the loose ends of the series and kind of tied them up, I do hope for one more novel that truely ends the series.

[Roquefort Raider]

Dixit Mieville: "Tolkien is the wen on the arse of fantasy literature. His oeuvre is massive and contagious - you can't ignore it, so don't even try. The best you can do is consciously try to lance the boil. And there's a lot to dislike - his cod-Wagnerian pomposity, his boys-own-adventure glorying in war, his small-minded and reactionary love for hierarchical status-quos, his belief in absolute morality that blurs moral and political complexity. Tolkien's clichés - elves 'n' dwarfs 'n' magic rings - have spread like viruses. He wrote that the function of fantasy was 'consolation', thereby making it an article of policy that a fantasy writer should mollycoddle the reader." - China Mieville (http://www.panmacmillan.com/features/china/debate.htm)

I don't particularly have a problem with it either, but I remember we had some sort of kerfuffle around here the last time it came up. Some folks are protective of Tolkien.

*Huff! * Puff! * Outrage!!!*

Consider me one of these protectors of Tolkien, ED! I disagree strongly with all of Mieville's points!

Tolkien's "Wagnerian pomposity"? Egad! It's like blaming Kirby for his "Exaggerated anatomy" of Stan Lee for his "Pompous prose", or Van Gogh for his "garish colors". How can one blame an author for doing exactly what he set out to do? Tolkien wanted to create an entire mythology, with the appropriate reverence; he wasn't out to do a Garth Ennis version of the Illiad.

"Well, fuck me sideways", said Achilles while spitting his cigarette butt to the bloodied ground. "That bitch Hector is going to get his, mark my words".

A "boys' own adventure glorifying war"? How can Lord of the rings be reduced to that? All we witness is death and despair and destruction, and the take-home lesson is that all the armies of the world would not have been enough if not for the courage of the meekest among us.

A small-minded love for reactionnary status quo? Is that in any way fair? All right, so there was no communist revolution on Middle Earth. But its "elite", the Elves, did go away (and willingly, too) to let us imperfect being handle the fate of Middle Earth. And autonomy was granted to the Shire. The only return to the status quo I see in there is that ordinary people got to tend to their garden again at the end of the story, which is not a bad thing at all. Bah!

As for blaming Tolkien for the reams of bad pages that were written in imitation of his work, well... That's hardly Tolkien's fault, is it? If the man had followed Lord of the rings by dozens of dragonlance novels, I would see Mieville's point. But he didn't. He told his story and tat was that.

As for Tolkien's decree that fantasy should mollycoddle the reader, it's just mean and untrue. Lord of the rings has sort of a happy ending, but it's also pretty melancholy.

Now to purposely try and do an un-Tolkien bit of fantasy is perfectly fine. I, too, am annoyed by many of the sub-par imitations that saw print in the last decades. But to say that people should maybe write and read more than Tolkien's type of fantasy is no reason to lambaste the man's work, which was extraordinary.

There! Have I kerfuffled enough in defense of Tolkien??? (Maybe I should say something nasty about China's books. But I can't. I never read any.


And isn't that the worst that one can say about an author?)


Cheers,

-Ben

[Inkthinker]

"Well, fuck me sideways", said Achilles while spitting his cigarette butt to the bloodied ground. "That bitch Hector is going to get his, mark my words".



Dude, I would totally read this version of The Illiad. :D

[Gordon Smith]

May I recommend an excellent work that exhaustively treats the subject of Tolkien's attitudes towards war? WAR AND THE WORKS OF J.R.R. TOLKIEN (http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/war_and_works_jrrt.htm), written by Janet Brennan Croft, should be required reading for anyone who thinks the professor actually took a '' his boys-own-adventure glorying in war''. Nothing could be further from the truth. Tolkien was himself a combat veteran of the Great War (his military service rates an interesting book in itself) who participated in the horrror that was the Battle of the Somme, he lost many of his classmates in that war, as a parent, he waited anxiously as his own sons served in the Second World War and he knew many professional colleagues whose children did not return from their tours of duty. Tolkien was repulsed by war, particularly modern war that relied upon the modern machinery and factories that he so thoroughly despised, and he was under no illusions whatsover about the true, dehumanizing nature of war. Tolkien's rejection of war as any sort of positive good should be more than clearly evident to any open-minded reader of Lord of the Rings.

[Roquefort Raider]

May I recommend an excellent work that exhaustively treats the subject of Tolkien's attitudes towards war? WAR AND THE WORKS OF J.R.R. TOLKIEN (http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/C/Janet.B.Croft-1/war_and_works_jrrt.htm), written by Janet Brennan Croft, should be required reading for anyone who thinks the professor actually took a '' his boys-own-adventure glorying in war''. Nothing could be further from the truth. Tolkien was himself a combat veteran of the Great War (his military service rates an interesting book in itself) who participated in the horrror that was the Battle of the Somme, he lost many of his classmates in that war, as a parent, he waited anxiously as his own sons served in the Second World War and he knew many professional colleagues whose children did not return from their tours of duty. Tolkien was repulsed by war, particularly modern war that relied upon the modern machinery and factories that he so thoroughly despised, and he was under no illusions whatsover about the true, dehumanizing nature of war. Tolkien's rejection of war as any sort of positive good should be more than clearly evident to any open-minded reader of Lord of the Rings.

Sounds pretty good, Gordon.

I doubt anyone who served on the Somme could ever glorify war.

[Gordon Smith]

Sounds pretty good, Gordon.

I doubt anyone who served on the Somme could ever glorify war.

I suppose I should have given the title of the book that describes Tolkien's own military service. This is Tolkien and the Great War: The Threshold of Middle-earth (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007119526/202-7286500-9477411), by John Garth.

[cactusmaac]

*Huff! * Puff! * Outrage!!!*

A small-minded love for reactionnary status quo? Is that in any way fair? All right, so there was no communist revolution on Middle Earth. But its "elite", the Elves, did go away (and willingly, too) to let us imperfect being handle the fate of Middle Earth. And autonomy was granted to the Shire. The only return to the status quo I see in there is that ordinary people got to tend to their garden again at the end of the story, which is not a bad thing at all. Bah!

-Ben

I probably agree with that criticism.

LOTR is so full of the worship of kings, aristocracy, those of superior bloodlines and so disdainful of industrialisation - the one thing allowing the little guy to drag himself out of short, brutish lives - that I've often felt tempted to write a lefty-liberal fantasy story as a reaction to it.

[Expletive Deleted]

There! Have I kerfuffled enough in defense of Tolkien???Very much so, yes.

Me, I just like the word "kerfuffle."

Kerfuffle!

[Solaris]

I love her Arrow trilogy

I think I've read every Velgarth book she's (or she and Larry Dixon together) written, as well as the short story anthologies she's edited that others have written, and the short story anthologies that are either all her work, or with her as one of the writers (i.e. Marion Zimmer Bradley's "Sword and Sorceress" books). I've also thoroughly enjoyed her scifi/fantasy detective books (the Diana Tregarde trilogy, and "Sacred Ground"). I've also caught all her turn-of-the-century magic books (The Elemental Mage books, and this new one, Wizard of London). I was very happy to find that, in the last one, she's gone back and grabbed the characters from two of her short stories to be the main characters in this one.

One of my favorite aspects of the Elemental Mage books is that she pulls in so much real-life info on how women, and races, were treated during that time. Lots of people who won't even see stuff about that in school, will encounter it in these books---and that's a very good thing.

My favorite Velgarth character? Probably Tarma (of the Tarma and Kethry duo). Most people will pick a Herald of Valdemar, and I do really like the heralds... but Tarma just completely rocked. Though if I lived in that world, I think I'd much rather live with the Tayledras---not only do they understand the value of warm weather and hot tubs, they also have viewpoints on relationships that are closer to mine and Troy's than anywhere else in their world... excepting, of course, the Shin'a'in... but *they* don't have hot baths! :D

I haven't hit her Bards series yet... mainly because I can't afford to buy a ton of books, and I hate starting a series and not being able to voraciously move right on to the next book in it. Heh. If we ever hit the lottery, our library will probably be 5 times the size of our family room!



Be afraid, be very afraid, we are in total agreement about The Deed of Paksenarrion!
...



Heh. Now if we could just persuade Ms. Moon to continue the series... I'd really like to know what else Paks did, in regard to her other deeds, and regarding further service to the King of Lyonya, and of course, if she or anyone ever pursued who it was who'd kidnapped the young prince and held him under abuse.

[Solaris]

Dude, I would totally read this version of The Illiad. :D


So would I!

All right, Ben, get to work! You've got one year to WRITE THIS.

:D

[Solaris]

Oh, and here's one I think I left off my first list:

Barry Hughart.

His "Master Li and Number Ten Ox" books are wildly inventive with Chinese mythology, and loads of fun. The characters are great (especially in "The Story of the Stone). If you want a really fun read, start with that one, then go back for "Bridge of Birds" and then on to the one other he wrote (I forget the title, because I haven't gotten my hands on it to read it yet!).

The sad part about his work is that he had so many publisher problems, he simply quit writing them. :(

[Shem the Penman]

Oh, and here's one I think I left off my first list:

Barry Hughart.

His "Master Li and Number Ten Ox" books are wildly inventive with Chinese mythology, and loads of fun. The characters are great (especially in "The Story of the Stone). If you want a really fun read, start with that one, then go back for "Bridge of Birds" and then on to the one other he wrote (I forget the title, because I haven't gotten my hands on it to read it yet!).

The sad part about his work is that he had so many publisher problems, he simply quit writing them. :(

Eight Skilled Gentlemen.

[Doodle Bob]

I probably agree with that criticism.

LOTR is so full of the worship of kings, aristocracy, those of superior bloodlines and so disdainful of industrialisation - the one thing allowing the little guy to drag himself out of short, brutish lives - that I've often felt tempted to write a lefty-liberal fantasy story as a reaction to it.

As an ardent Tolkien fan, I must sadly agree with cactusmaac's assessment of Tolkien's reactionary tendencies. He's very much into that superior bloodline idea. And note that to Tolkien things only go wrong with the humans whenever there's no definitive king to set things right.

Like Shakespeare, Tolkien tends towards a very conservative idea for the "place of things," i.e. everything has its own place in society and one must never disrupt them.

That said, though, he's not entirely consistent on this point. His favorite races -- the elves and hobbits -- have no discernible hierarchy, although clearly some elves are more powerful than others. In fact, both have a vaguely democratic streak to them. It's interesting to note though that the humans have nothing of the sort.

As for glorifying war, he does indeed do so at some key points in the book, particularly the siege of Helm's Deep, which as Colin Wilson wrote has an air of an Errol Flynn movie to it. However, I think this is balanced off nicely with the next big siege at Minas Tirith, which is portrayed as quite the opposite. He was a medievalist after all: good war stories were his bread and butter.

[Inkthinker]

Gah, can we not quit arguing about Tolkien?

As soon as I run out of "Black Company" books (which might be a bit, since I've only just begun The Silver Spike), I got a Jim Butcher (who writes the "Dresden Files" series) fantasy novel entitled The Furies of Calderon to get into... I really enjoy his dialogue and characterisations in the Dresden novels, so I'm looking forward to this. I gotta admit though, I picked it up because of the author, but I haven't yet read more than a couple chapters because the cover art is so goddamn awful it actually offends mine eyes. Call it artist's whining if you like, but it's a godawfully bad photomanipulation, and I can't figure out if the artist or the editor should be more ashamed of it.

[Arrjay]

I know little regarding their popularity but these authors are definitely my favorites:

Raymond E. Feist.

Terry Pratchett.

Robin Hobb.

Yeah.

That is all.

[berk]

Oh, and here's one I think I left off my first list:

Barry Hughart.

His "Master Li and Number Ten Ox" books are wildly inventive with Chinese mythology, and loads of fun. The characters are great (especially in "The Story of the Stone). If you want a really fun read, start with that one, then go back for "Bridge of Birds" and then on to the one other he wrote (I forget the title, because I haven't gotten my hands on it to read it yet!).

The sad part about his work is that he had so many publisher problems, he simply quit writing them. :(In the other SF/Fantasy thread froma few months back someone (Sheets, I believe it was) mentioned that one of Ughart's literary predecessors was Ernest Bramah (http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809530848/qid=1141849803/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_0_2/701-8709279-8915549), a writer from the 1920's. I haven't read anything from either guy, but from the looks of it, for anyone who likes Ughart and is looking for something in a related style, Bramah might be worth checking out.

[stealthwise]

Neil Gaiman- I know he's huge in comics and has won many awrds for his books, he only has about 3.5 novels under his belt (Neverwhere, Stardust, American Gods, and his joint effort w/ Terry Pratchett, Good Omens)

Don't forget Anansi Boys, that one was a hoot. Hell, Coraline was great for what it was.

[Solaris]

Eight Skilled Gentlemen.


Thanks, Shem---I was just plain too lazy to look it up on Amazon. (Well, busy with other stuff, but there you go.;))

[Solaris]

In the other SF/Fantasy thread froma few months back someone (Sheets, I believe it was) mentioned that one of Ughart's literary predecessors was Ernest Bramah (http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809530848/qid=1141849803/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_0_2/701-8709279-8915549), a writer from the 1920's. I haven't read anything from either guy, but from the looks of it, for anyone who likes Ughart and is looking for something in a related style, Bramah might be worth checking out.


Thanks! :)

[leonaozaki]

I probably agree with that criticism.

LOTR is so full of the worship of kings, aristocracy, those of superior bloodlines and so disdainful of industrialisation - the one thing allowing the little guy to drag himself out of short, brutish lives - that I've often felt tempted to write a lefty-liberal fantasy story as a reaction to it.


Right. Industrialization was so good for everybody, except for the people who did all the work.

rob

[Adam Crocker]

Right. Industrialization was so good for everybody, except for the people who did all the work.

Cact actually has a good point. While the conditions of industrialization were hardly amicable (and only got to that point through better pay, working conditions, urban improvement, etc.) and it did present many hardships through social atomization and the regimentation of work that accompanied its onset one can absolutely say that it did provide the material basis for undermining the feudal order of Europe as it switched over to a competitive market economy as well as starting a technological revolution which has since provided the means for greater food production, better housing, better medical care, etc. (Albeit the spread of this has hardly been even or even a given.)

That said I cannot comment on Meiville (as well as those made by Michael Moorcock) criticisms of Tolkien since I never bothered to sit down and read the Lord of the Rings trilogy, save for once in high school. Gave up during the trip to Rivendale because it was just so boring. Read the Hobbit however. I am greatly enjoying Perdido Street Station however and would read faster if I didn't have a massive biography of Churchill that my maternal Grandmother's husband leant me.

[Solaris]

I think industrialization was a mixed bag...

Negatives:

For a good while, workers faced hazards with no concern from many business owners, and no protection by the law. Factory workers frequently lost limbs and/or lives to dangerous machinery with no guards or safety factors in place (i.e. cutting/stitching/pressing machinery with nothing to deter a body part that gets too close). Often they were exposed to toxic chemicals (i.e. the ceramics factory painters, often young women, were exposed to and died from overdoses of lead in the paint and air; fertilizer workers exposed to toxins, etc. These were in onsite water, and worked into food, too.). Training was often limited to "How to operate the machine" with nothing about safety.

There were no legal limits on hiring children to work. Employees worked grueling hours, and exhaustion often contributed to accidents, injuries, and deaths.

Factories ran for many years without any legal oversight or limitations on industrial waste, and many people near them grew ill and/or were slowly poisoned... plus, local ecosystems were damaged or destroyed.

Often, a landowner would put in a factory, or sell the land to someone who would. Prior to that, local people were often "tenant farmers," who didn't own their homes. Factories often put up "mill homes" for their employees---but once you were injured, you were summarily kicked out of your home... and resources for such people were very few, and often involved splitting up a family. Workers went from jobs that involved regular hours (if long in summer) and a good amount of time outdoors, to indoor jobs under wretched conditions with long hours and no exposure to the sun, fresh air, or any kind of real break/rest. For urban workers, often the owners would put in a "company store"... and the food sold therein was of course, cheaper for the workers to buy, but also very poor in nutrition: milk being watered down severely, for instance, contributed to infant deaths and illness of workers and their children (lack of calcium, vitamin D, and other nutrients).

In short, workers were most often treated as serfs, and served under working conditions far less healthy and far more dangerous than their prior jobs as tenant farmers (where many of them came from).

It took many years, and much hard work, before laws began to be enacted to grant rights to the workers, to protect them and the environment, and to limit or ban children being worked like adults.

In many regards, the "feudal lords" were merely replaced with "economic lords," when you stop and think about it.


Positives:

These are pretty obvious. Industrialization led to increase of trade, which led to increase of exchange of ideas among regions and nations. It started us off into the technological revolution, which has resulted in the modern conveniences, and in some cases, life-saving devices and knowledge, we have today. Invention flourished; people moved about more and gained contact with those who were different. Our "global village" eventually grew stronger, and gained better communication.

Still... we shouldn't forget the negatives and lack of concern/care for human beings which first accompanied Industrialization, and in some ways still colors our societal perceptions today, on the worth and value of millworkers, etc. It was the beginning of some big leaps for science... but from a societal standpoint, in many ways was a worsening of attitudes of certain people being "disposable," and "not counting." Humankind has always had that attitude crop up, under various circumstances, so it is good for us to look at the atrocities that occured back then... and then look at our own world, and seek the atrocities which still exist, or new ones that have been formed.


Note: while I learned much of this in school and from authors like Upton Sinclair, I also learned a good bit of it from Mercedes Lackey's "Elemental Mages" series. It's well worth the read; she puts in a lot of historical information most people leave out, when writing fiction about the period. Plus, if you like fantasy, it's a fun way to learn! :D

[cactusmaac]

Right. Industrialization was so good for everybody, except for the people who did all the work.

rob

I assume you made the last post by sketching it out on a sheet of papyrus.

[Arilou]

Dude, I would totally read this version of The Illiad.

Not exactly the same thing, but Marion Zimmer Bradley's Firebrand has a lot less... Sanitary, view of the Illiad. I kind of liked it to tell you the truth.

As for my fave fantasy authors (beyond Martin, Tolkien, et. al.)

Robin Hobb, definately. Great author.
Eriksson is decent, his writing sometimes slumps (and he's SO PREACHY) but the world is fascinating.
China Mieville is great too. Wonderful prose.
J.S. Bakker has a great (just "finished") triology called The Prince of Nothing. Great series and one of the best descriptions of wizard-battles I've ever read.
Pratchett (needs no introduction)
Fritz Leiber Is definately fun good old "Sword and Sorcery".
Guy Gavriel Kay Writes pretty different, historical fantasy. Tigana and The Lions of Al-Rassan are both good.
Phillip Pullman: Technically writes YA, but His Dark Materials is a wonderful, wonderful series that can be read and enjoyed by anyone with any sense of taste. Amazing book, won the ALMA awards (the world's largest award for children's books, and among the largest for books of any category, at 5 million SEK)

[Iangould]

Brian Hughart
Michael Shea