Pope John Paul II [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

SoulOnIce

04-03-2005, 08:18 AM

Hey Steven,

As the writer of the only (I think) comic book ever about a Pope I was wondering if you had any thoughts about his life and legacy.

Also, would you be willing to share any stories about how the comic came together? Did Vatican City have to approve the comic? How were you chosen? Are you a practicing Roman Catholic and is that why you were chosen?

Thanks.

NatGertler

04-03-2005, 09:05 AM

Steven's not the only writer of a comic book about even this pope:
http://www.pauline.org/store/moreinfo/0819859397.html
There have certainly been other comics about popes, real and fictional.
The comics of Jack Chick have certainly laid into the papacy, and Battle Pope had his own followers.

SoulOnIce

04-03-2005, 09:06 AM

Steven Grant

04-03-2005, 11:08 AM

As the writer of the only (I think) comic book ever about a Pope I was wondering if you had any thoughts about his life and legacy.

Also, would you be willing to share any stories about how the comic came together? Did Vatican City have to approve the comic? How were you chosen? Are you a practicing Roman Catholic and is that why you were chosen?

The Franciscans had done THE LIFE OF ST. FRANCIS with Marvel. There was a guy working for Marvel at the time, based out of Japan, named Gene Pelc, who was a very committed Catholic very proud of the Polish Pope, since Gene was Polish himself, and, having been the Franciscan connection on ST. FRANCIS, thought Marvel should do a POPE JOHN PAUL II book as well and put the two sides together. How I got involved in it I never knew. Jo Duffy had done ST. FRANCIS but passed on PJII. I was told secondhand I'd gotten the assignment and that was the first time I'd ever heard of the book. Apparently most of Marvel editorial knew about it and no one had mentioned it to me. I didn't think much of it but the following Monday Jim Shooter called me into his office and told me I was doing it. I was pretty much told I was doing it. I have no idea why me. I suspect it's because it was known I was raised Catholic, though by that time I was a confirmed atheist (still am; if you read the POPE comic carefully you'll notice there's no actual reference to the reality of God in it, nor any judgment on the validity of the Church or religious faith one way or the other) but didn't wear it as a badge or anything. Made it an interesting experience. Gene arranged for a Polish priest who was a longtime friend of the Pope's (like from boyhood) to come over and I spent a couple days interviewing him and getting bits and details. Did a lot of research from numerous places. The priest was very helpful in stripping out the mythology which even by then had formed around PJII, esp. fictitious tales of anti-Nazi adventurism during WWII. To the best of my knowledge, the Vatican had no say over the book (the Franciscans did) and never acknowledged it. At around 3 million copies sold, many through Catholic distribution outlets, it was for some time Marvel's best-selling single title ever.

As for my general assessment of PJII at this point in time... you may notice that while many around the world are lionizing what a great man he was, very few mention actual accomplishments of his quarter-decade reign. There's a reason for that...

Drew Van T.

04-04-2005, 03:46 AM

As for my general assessment of PJII at this point in time... you may notice that while many around the world are lionizing what a great man he was, very few mention actual accomplishments of his quarter-decade reign. There's a reason for that...

A friend of mine's own whimsical assessment of the Pope runs like this:

"The stuff that people are saying about him, you'd think that he pulled down the Berlin Wall singlehandedly and saved the world three times over. Me, I mainly remember him kissing the tarmac, doing same with babies, waving to people from his window, and not much else.

And you know the expression "to be holier than the Pope"? You know what: I am holier than the Pope. Because while, like him, I am in favor of world peace and human rights and all that, I am also in favor of granting abortion when it's necessary, equal rights for men and women, letting people use condoms and even encouraging their use, allowing gays to love who they want, and letting nuns and priests have a sex life if they want it. In short, I myself am holier than the Pope and by quite a margin, too."

badMike

04-04-2005, 08:04 AM

A friend of mine's own whimsical assessment of the Pope runs like this:That's not "whimsical." It's fucking downright insulting. Thanks.

sikkbones

04-04-2005, 08:15 AM

http://www.soaponarope.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/popeboxb.jpg

bartl

04-04-2005, 09:02 AM

I suspect it's because it was known I was raised Catholic, though by that time I was a confirmed atheist (still am; if you read the POPE comic carefully you'll notice there's no actual reference to the reality of God in it, nor any judgment on the validity of the Church or religious faith one way or the other) but didn't wear it as a badge or anything.
Sort of the way Buzz Dixon got NFL SUPERPRO (according to him, he was the only writer he ever found who had played organized football, high school, I believe. Anybody who has met him in person can believe it).

Reminds me of how I got into web work. When it first came out, my company was looking for an SGML expert (the web markup system, HTML, uses SGML as a base). I actually knew what the initials stood for, which put me ahead of everybody else.

badMike

04-04-2005, 10:07 AM

(the web markup system, HTML, uses SGML as a base). I actually knew what the initials stood for, which put me ahead of everybody else.Which are...?

Drew Van T.

04-04-2005, 10:20 AM

That's not "whimsical."

Well, he said it intended to be tongue-in-cheek, at least. The topic of religion is a free-for-all in this country, and jokes about the pope are very, very common indeed. The best ones are always made by catholics, funnily enough...

badMike

04-04-2005, 11:28 AM

Well, he said it intended to be tongue-in-cheek, at least. The topic of religion is a free-for-all in this country, and jokes about the pope are very, very common indeed. The best ones are always made by catholics, funnily enough...I guess spitting on the dead while people are mourning is another fun thing you guys in Belgium do. Remind me not to visit.

SoulOnIce

04-04-2005, 01:46 PM

I guess spitting on the dead while people are mourning is another fun thing you guys in Belgium do. Remind me not to visit.

Yeah, because Hollywood is such a great example of how the rest of the world should conduct themselves.

Puhleeze.

bartl

04-04-2005, 02:37 PM

Which are...?
SGML: Standard Generalized Markup Language; the real trick is knowing what the modifiers modify. It's a standard method of designing markup languages, NOT a markup language in itself.

HTML: HyperText Markup Language, a markup language using hypertext (allowing built-in cross-referencing on individual terms), which was designed using the system described by the SGML specification.

And, in case anybody was wondering:

XML: eXtensible Markup Language; essentially an SGML junior that sacrifices flexibility for ease of use.

badMike

04-04-2005, 03:02 PM

Yeah, because Hollywood is such a great example of how the rest of the world should conduct themselves. Puhleeze.I didn't say it was. Thanks for chiming in.

badMike

04-04-2005, 10:08 PM

SGML: Standard Generalized Markup Language; the real trick is knowing what the modifiers modify. It's a standard method of designing markup languages, NOT a markup language in itself.Thanks. I've must have heard of SGML, but it didn't ring a bell. I have limited knowledge of HTML and have to use XML files all the time for my work. I understand the concept, but I couldn't write any of it. I tried teaching myself PHP for a little while, but gave up.

dancj

04-05-2005, 05:21 AM

I was wondering where The Pope would go if he hadn't had his last rites read to him.

SoulOnIce

04-05-2005, 06:36 AM

I didn't say it was. Thanks for chiming in.

It's that glass houses thing...

badMike

04-05-2005, 08:26 AM

It's that glass houses thing...Hi. I'm Catholic. I am by no means devout, nor did I agree with the Pope about everything and if I heard the same kind of comment a few weeks ago, I wouldn't have been happy about it, but I probably wouldn't have cared as much. However, John Paul isn't even in the ground yet and I have to hear some jackass spout off. I would think that I wouldn't be the person you would talk about glass houses to at the moment, but I guess that's "fair game" to you guys: Attacking a person when the head of his religion has passed away. Thanks, I really appreciate it. [last line deleted out of better judgement]

SoulOnIce

04-05-2005, 08:47 AM

Hi. I'm Catholic. I am by no means devout, nor did I agree with the Pope about everything and if I heard the same kind of comment a few weeks ago, I wouldn't have been happy about it, but I probably wouldn't have cared as much. However, John Paul isn't even in the ground yet and I have to hear some jackass spout off. I would think that I wouldn't be the person you would talk about glass houses to at the moment, but I guess that's "fair game" to you guys: Attacking a person when the head of his religion has passed away. Thanks, I really appreciate it. [last line deleted out of better judgement]

Well, everyone seems to be deifying (sp?) the Pope just because he died. Let's not bury our heads in the sand about the legacy this Pope has left behind. We need to talk about these things and be open about them because a new Pope will be appointed very shortly and a lot of people are hoping that someone more progressive and modern than John Paul II will be appointed.

badMike

04-05-2005, 12:46 PM

Forget it.

WatsonGlenn

04-06-2005, 06:52 AM

I am holier than the Pope. Because while, like him, I am in favor of world peace and human rights and all that, I am also in favor of granting abortion when it's necessary, equal rights for men and women, letting people use condoms and even encouraging their use, allowing gays to love who they want, and letting nuns and priests have a sex life if they want it. In short,."[/i]

How does that make him holier than anyone, much less the Pope? When did condom use become a holy thing? For that matter when did gay sex?

Steven Grant

04-06-2005, 08:16 AM

Okay, since this conversation has degenerated into gibberish, everyone gets to stop now...

diegojourdan

04-19-2005, 07:34 PM

Thought this was worth sharing:

http://www.jourdancovers.s5.com/darthpope.jpg

And if Freeservers give you shit,go to:

http://www.jourdancovers.s5.com/darthpope.jpg

Diego.-

PS:Doesn`t Ratzinger look a bit like The Emperor too? ;)

fumetti

04-20-2005, 08:49 AM

However, John Paul isn't even in the ground yet and I have to hear some jackass spout off.

I was accused of kicking Reagan before his body got cold. It was a fair statement. But the reason was because so many people were rushing to white-wash his presidency. Gotta get your blows in early if you don't want to lose the spin-war. Same will be happening with this pope, I expect.

I've already heard the rumblings of the word "saint." I don't know much about the pope, but my guess is the standard must be pretty low if he qualifies. Being a likeable fellow shouldn't be enough.

Steven Grant

04-20-2005, 10:08 AM

Yesterday, I had the interesting experience of watching one of the faithful wax on about JPII on TV as the networks were waiting around Rome for the new Pope to be elected. This faithful rambled on about what a magnificent pope JPII had been -- until he had to come up with something JPII had actually done. For seven or eight seconds -- an eternity in TV time -- he stumbled over his own words, and you could see his agitation increasing as he desperately searched his memory, and finally, breathlessly, grasping at the tiny glimmer of hope that flickered behind his eyes, he revealed why JPII was such a great pope: because he forgave the man who tried to kill him. So he was all about forgiveness.

And I thought, "26 years and that's the best you can come up with?"

diegojourdan

04-20-2005, 10:46 AM

Ladies and Gentlemen...THE NEW EMPERO...ER, POPE!

http://jourdancovers.s5.com/darthbenedict.jpg

http://jourdancovers.s5.com/darthbenedict.jpg

;)

abbas.khan

04-20-2005, 12:18 PM

badMike

04-20-2005, 01:03 PM

I was accused of kicking Reagan before his body got cold ... Gotta get your blows in early if you don't want to lose the spin-war.How cheerfully wonderful. Did you win these "wars"?

fumetti

04-20-2005, 02:32 PM

How cheerfully wonderful. Did you win these "wars"?

Yup, for the most part.

Don't get it into your head that I jumped on Reagan first. I had to defend REALITY by quelling the nonsense being drummed into my ears for three full days.

I don't want Reagan's face on Mount Rushmore or any currency. There are many more deserving presidents ahead of him. If you're looking to celebrate the victory of the Cold War, look first at Truman then Kennedy and then Johnson. Truman set the course, Kennedy won the very important standoff (the Cuban Missile Crisis was the turning point of the Cold War; the commies blinked), and Johnson scared the Russkies with his "I'll fight any war no matter how pointless!" campaign in Asia. Reagan knew the USSR was at the brink of collapse, and financially pushed them over the edge. But to say he "won" the cold war is to give the MVP to the backup QB who comes in late during the 4th quarter with a two-score lead and just hands off to the runningback.

And immediately elevating JP2 to sainthood is an attempt to disallow history the chance to judge him fairly. Just as the GOP is afraid history won't look so well on Reagan. The GOP is hurting for presidential heroes. None worth a dime since Eisenhower. The Dems have all the best ones from the 20th century, so the GOP needs to get the mood about Reagan entrenched before the truth does him in.

Drew Van T.

04-20-2005, 02:56 PM

Now, the faithful are going on about what a Great Pope Benedict XVI is doubtlessly going to be, the main thing being cited how intelligent he is and just how many books on theology he has put out.

And if rigorously sticking to a number of dogmas and ethical principles is a mark of intelligence then that would certainly seem to bear out in Ratzinger's case, although a man in his position may now find charisma more useful than any intellectual capacities.

The Germans are proud that the new pope is one of their own, understandably, but the main thing you hear from them is still concern about how completely out of touch the man's views are on abortion, contraception, the role of women in the church, other social issues, etc.

Those cardinals did pretty much go with the most uncompromisingly, radically conservative possible choice. It's ironic: Ratzinger is clearly deeply Eurocentric in his outlook of the world, and yet the fact is that the church is in terminal decline in Europe whereas it is actually growing in areas like Africa, Latin America and Asia. It's quite likely that he'll maintain - if not emphasize further - his predecessor's stance (among others) that condoms are evil, basically, even as the faithful in Africa and elsewhere are being decimated by Aids. Which, frankly, is something akin to an indirect contribution to genocide IMO, because those faithful in the developing world do take the Vatican's edicts seriously, much more than is good for them.

In his last speech before being elected, Ratzinger fiercely condemned a impressive number of -isms (marxism, liberalism, individualism, atheism, agnosticism, libertarianism); I doubt that this guy is going to win the church many friends in the world, much less converts.

he revealed why JPII was such a great pope: because he forgave the man who tried to kill him. So he was all about forgiveness.

And I thought, "26 years and that's the best you can come up with?"

It's the same thing that the whole case in praise of JPII was built around in my religion handbook back in catholic school. And that was in 1986 (when I read it, that is, not the attempted murder of course)

WatsonGlenn

04-20-2005, 04:12 PM

Yesterday, I had the interesting experience of watching one of the faithful wax on about JPII on TV as the networks were waiting around Rome for the new Pope to be elected. This faithful rambled on about what a magnificent pope JPII had been -- until he had to come up with something JPII had actually done.

JPII played a big part in the liberation of Poland.
He inspired young Catholics around the world.
He held the line when it came to Catholic Doctrine.
He made the first overtures from the Church to Isreal.
He stood up for the common man against capitalism and communism.
He helped grow the Church in Africa.
He kissed a hell of a lot of babies, (and if you think thats not important your not a parent.)
He kept the Catholic Church out of any major scandals, outside of America.

Having said that he is not Saint material since there were no miracles associated with his life.

I thought this thread was shut down.

WatsonGlenn

04-20-2005, 04:15 PM

Yup, for the most part.

What did you win?

Don't get it into your head that I jumped on Reagan first.

Clearly you were not the first to jump on that bandwagon.

If you're looking to celebrate the victory of the Cold War, look first at Truman then Kennedy and then Johnson.

Oh for God's sake! Those men started the Cold War.

dancj

04-21-2005, 05:59 AM

He kissed a hell of a lot of babies, (and if you think thats not important your not a parent.)

Just in case that's not a joke, I'm a parent and I think it's incredibly unimportant

Adam Crocker

04-21-2005, 06:45 AM

Oh for God's sake! Those men started the Cold War.

Truman did (well him and Stalin, since it takes two to start a war), but the Cold War was already well under way by Kennedy's time.

WatsonGlenn

04-21-2005, 07:04 AM

Just in case that's not a joke, I'm a parent and I think it's incredibly unimportant

So if you had a chance to let the Pope kiss your baby and give him a little blessing you would pass it up? Incredible! I guess it takes all kinds. This is why I love the Internet. I never get to see postions like yours in real life.

WatsonGlenn

04-21-2005, 07:07 AM

Truman did (well him and Stalin, since it takes two to start a war), but the Cold War was already well under way by Kennedy's time.

Saying Kennedy had anything to do with ending the Cold War is like saying Chamberlain was instumental in the defeat of Germany since he warned Hitler not to invade Czechoslavakia and Poland.

Adam Crocker

04-21-2005, 07:24 AM

Saying Kennedy had anything to do with ending the Cold War is like saying Chamberlain was instumental in the defeat of Germany since he warned Hitler not to invade Czechoslavakia and Poland.

I wasn't really addressing how Kennedy faced off against the Soviets so much as your claim that he and Johnson were among the people who started the Cold War.

WatsonGlenn

04-21-2005, 05:58 PM

I wasn't really addressing how Kennedy faced off against the Soviets so much as your claim that he and Johnson were among the people who started the Cold War.

And I was originally addressing a guy who said they ended it.