DAY OF VENGEANCE Advance Speculation & Spoilers [Archive]

Adam Crocker

04-01-2005, 09:34 PM

We'd like a link if you've got one.

http://www.dccomics.com/features/countdown_day_of_vengeance/intro.php

Yeah, it really shocked me. I think it's pretty interesting. I'm sure we'll hear plenty of complaining about it, though.

I dunno. Being possessed by the God of Vengeance makes a lot more sense than "I am insane for no reason what so ever, BLARGH!!!!"

marshal99

04-01-2005, 09:45 PM

Seems like Eclipso is making a major comeback in the DCU , first appearing in that big JSA epic "princes of darkness" , then the JSA "Black Reign" , then appearing in the upcoming Superman/Captain Marvel crossover , now this ?

JeffreyWKramer

04-01-2005, 09:49 PM

I dunno. Being possessed by the God of Vengeance makes a lot more sense than "I am insane for no reason what so ever, BLARGH!!!!"

And since Eclipso maintains knowledge gained from his possessed hosts... that's yet someone else (since Jean Loring inexplicably knows the secret IDs of pretty much everyone) who has all this knowledge.

And Daredevil thought he had it tough.

Brian R

04-01-2005, 09:58 PM

The sad part is, I know a lot of people will believe that they did this in response to all the flak IDC got, and that it wasnt actually planned years in advance.

Personally, I am very glad about this. It doesnt make IDC #7 great, but it does make it better for me, since one of my main problems was not that it was Jean, but that her motive seemed like a garbage excuse. This shows that there was actually more going on than we thought, and while many will no doubt bitch that this wasnt revealed in the pages of IDC, I am just glad we get a slightly better explaination.

Forsaken_One

04-01-2005, 10:00 PM

Oh noes! My computer says that the acrobat file DC has up there is corrupted. :(

Forsaken_One

04-01-2005, 10:01 PM

Oh, and it probably wasn't planned years in advance. Months at best I'd say. But neither do I think they caved to fan reactions.

RedBaron

04-01-2005, 10:34 PM

http://www.dccomics.com/features/countdown_day_of_vengeance/intro.php

I dunno. Being possessed by the God of Vengeance makes a lot more sense than "I am insane for no reason what so ever, BLARGH!!!!"

No kidding. Isn't kind of funny when possession by evil is the more sane explanation?

Brian R

04-01-2005, 10:35 PM

Oh, and it probably wasn't planned years in advance. Months at best I'd say. But neither do I think they caved to fan reactions.

Well, they had that big meeting between Johns, Rucka, Winnick and Loeb, where all this Crisis stuff was planned out supposedly, like two years ago. Either way, months or years, I think we agree it wasnt some knee-jerk retcon.

Driftwood

04-01-2005, 11:25 PM

Well now that Hal has returned who do you think could take over the host of the Spectre?...

well I think it goes without saying that Ted Kord is probably going to be the new Angel of Vengence...why else would he have been given a peek into the more mystical side of the DCU?...

the weakest part of Countdown was the Days of Vengence tie-in...but maybe there was a lot more to that concerning BB than we thought...I dunno...comments?....anyone?...

Paul Newell

04-01-2005, 11:30 PM

Just making some Mega-Threads for discussion of each Countdown spin-off. This is the place to talk about Day of Vengeance!

Justin Davis

04-01-2005, 11:36 PM

http://www.dccomics.com/features/countdown_day_of_vengeance/intro.php

I dunno. Being possessed by the God of Vengeance makes a lot more sense than "I am insane for no reason what so ever, BLARGH!!!!"

It's the "BLARGH!!!" that made me laugh out loud. I can just picture her running at me, waving her arms in the air, tongue sticking out, all while saying that.

Brian R

04-01-2005, 11:39 PM

Forsaken_One

04-02-2005, 12:23 AM

Yeah, that seems quite plausible. I mean, why waste an issue to build him up just to kill him off-never to be heard from again?
I hope Ted isn't Spectre. The Spectre should be an interesting character on his own, not a ressurection machine for superheros. Besides, for Ted to become Spectre he'd have to have some horrible secret in his past that made him need redemption, and that'd be a bad, bad retcon.

marshal99

04-02-2005, 01:46 AM

Yes , Ted needs redemption for that dreadful Kooey-kooey island scheme. ;)

Wrye

04-02-2005, 02:14 AM

Yes , Ted needs redemption for that dreadful Kooey-kooey island scheme. ;)

*snicker*

Thanks for that.

Seriously, though, for anyone considering the idea, Ted as the Spectre is just a bad fit. Just think of the Marvel paralell; Imagine a conversation where Spider Man was in the running for being the new Herald of Galactus or Sorceror Supreme, say. Not beyond imagining, but...it's like Homer Simpson's idea of the ultimate snack:

"Nuts and Gum, together at last!"

Sigh.

Bored at 3:00AM

04-02-2005, 05:08 AM

I suspect DC has learned it's lesson and won't make another dead superhero the new Spectre. They'll probably create a new character to serve as host.

As for their choice of Jean Loring as the new Eclipso. Pretty nifty idea if you ask me--and it sure Yellow Fear Monsters away the shoddy job Identity Crisis did of establishing her as the villain. Having an evil freak like Eclipso egging her on explains away that plot hole pretty nicely.

Tom

04-02-2005, 06:59 AM

Maybe I'm missing something - and I'm not opening up that preview again because it froze up my computer - but why is everyone talking like Eclipso was behind Jean going nuts in the first place? She's in Arkham in the scene in the preview and it looks like she's becoming Eclipso for the first time, meaning it takes place after IDC.

GremlinClr

04-02-2005, 07:15 AM

Justin Davis

04-02-2005, 09:23 AM

Lex

04-02-2005, 09:29 AM

I just saw the six-page preview of Day of Vengeance:
Jean Loring is the new Eclipso! :eek:

What? Son of a @#&%! Day of Vengeance was the one Post-Countdown mini I was really looking forward to because of the spotlight on Ragman and other unused DC magic characters. But this news pisses me off! Darn you, Willingham! Wait, Didio probably told him to do that... so darn you, Didio!

Now I'm torn. I was all set for a cool story about Ragman and those others, but this is really disappointing.

the Monitor

04-02-2005, 11:04 AM

the weakest part of Countdown was the Days of Vengence tie-in...but maybe there was a lot more to that concerning BB than we thought...I dunno...comments?....anyone?...

Rather than thinking it was the weakest part, I thought the scenes with Shazam were the most intriguing as far as hints for where Beetle's story is going. It certainly seemed there was a lot going on beneath the surface there to me.

Driftwood

04-02-2005, 12:09 PM

Rather than thinking it was the weakest part, I thought the scenes with Shazam were the most intriguing as far as hints for where Beetle's story is going. It certainly seemed there was a lot going on beneath the surface there to me.

which is why I think Beetle is going to possibly play a part in Days of Vengence...it'd be an interesting twist to see Ted as the Spectre and finding revenge on Max Lord....

but Forsaken_One is right...Ted doesn't really have some terrible hidden secret in need of redemption....but who knows what they'll do...I, personally, would like to see Ted as the next Spectre....

Bored at 3:00AM

04-02-2005, 12:25 PM

If I had to guess? Desperate, desperate hope by some people.

Exactly.

Honestly, I don't know if this is intended to be Jean's first encounter with Eclipso or simply the culmination of a long manipulation of her by the baddie, but I'd rather it'd be the later because it would go a long way towards explaining her actions in Identity Crisis--which didn't really make a heckuva lotta sense.

Evan Waters

04-02-2005, 12:39 PM

I hope Ted isn't Spectre. The Spectre should be an interesting character on his own, not a ressurection machine for superheros. Besides, for Ted to become Spectre he'd have to have some horrible secret in his past that made him need redemption, and that'd be a bad, bad retcon.

Really? I thought he was just plain vengeance- the whole "redemption" angle was added for Hal Jordan who needed to redeem himself.

Forsaken_One

04-02-2005, 01:14 PM

Really? I thought he was just plain vengeance- the whole "redemption" angle was added for Hal Jordan who needed to redeem himself.
Well the previous cop was chosen because he was, for a long time at least, an extremely corrupt cop and needed to be redeemed. Then once he'd reached redemption he went to heaven, and Hal Jordan could move in.

Tom

04-02-2005, 01:52 PM

With the reveal that Jean is the new Eclipso, it looks like the only dangling plot thread left over from IDC that isn't being addressed is what happened to Ray. I wonder where he fits in all this?

GremlinClr

04-02-2005, 03:13 PM

Well the previous cop was chosen because he was, for a long time at least, an extremely corrupt cop and needed to be redeemed. Then once he'd reached redemption he went to heaven, and Hal Jordan could move in.

Speaking of which, I heard there was a Jim Corrigan in Gotham Nights. Anybody read it and know if their gonna do anything with it or is it just a fun little easter egg since their both cops?

Mon-el

04-02-2005, 04:06 PM

Speaking of which, I heard there was a Jim Corrigan in Gotham Nights. Anybody read it and know if their gonna do anything with it or is it just a fun little easter egg since their both cops?

Gotham Central not Gotham Knights....easy mistake.

Though the latter surpasses the Knights.

the Monitor

04-02-2005, 04:19 PM

Rather than thinking it was the weakest part, I thought the scenes with Shazam were the most intriguing as far as hints for where Beetle's story is going. It certainly seemed there was a lot going on beneath the surface there to me.

I went back and read this scene after reading a few other people's take on it. Maybe I'm just easily influenced, but on third (and fourth) reading this scene DID seem less like it had something to do with Ted and more like an excuse to get the scarab into the other story before Ted died.

It still seems that the fact that Shazam spoke with Ted at all should mean there's more to Ted's story, but I'm less certain now..

Mon-el

04-02-2005, 04:25 PM

You know after spending a great deal amount of time reading all these Mega Spoiler threads/countdown/ day of vengenance/villians untied/OMAC.

I have not seen one guess to who WIZARD SHAZAM was talking too in Countdown?

Not only in this forum but in other forums and other boards.

Sk8maven

04-02-2005, 05:01 PM

I have not seen one guess to who WIZARD SHAZAM was talking to in Countdown?

Insufficient data. He's MOST likely to have been talking to a fellow member of the Quintessence (Zeus, Highfather, Ganthet(!) or the Phantom Stranger), but he could also have been talking shop with fellow Ancient Wizard Nabu (that is, if Dr. Fate is letting Nabu take incoming calls from his prison in the Amulet). Or it could have been one (or more) of the Marvel family (probably NOT Black Adam - I don't think they've been on speaking terms for three millennia).

Too many possibilities, and few if any solid clues.

Maven

Captain Jim

04-02-2005, 07:32 PM

Oh noes! My computer says that the acrobat file DC has up there is corrupted. :(

Yeah, I had the same experience. It was the only preview I wasn't able to access. :(

Bored at 3:00AM

04-02-2005, 09:42 PM

With the reveal that Jean is the new Eclipso, it looks like the only dangling plot thread left over from IDC that isn't being addressed is what happened to Ray. I wonder where he fits in all this?

I'd guess he's gonna show up in either Day of Judgement to confront Jean or Rann/Thanagar War alongside his buddy Hawkman.

marshal99

04-02-2005, 11:07 PM

Detective Chimp ?! Nightmaster ?!

They really are dragging out all the really obscure seldom seen dust-ridden mothballs infested heroes for this crossover ,aren't they ?
Seems like DC is trying to revitalised some of their underused heroes , either through this series or Morrison's seven soldiers.
So where's Space Cabby ? Angel and the ape ? Kamandi ? Anthro ? Brother Power the geek ? B'wana Beast ? Congorilla ? El Diablo II ? ;)

Lex

04-04-2005, 08:46 AM

They really are dragging out all the really obscure seldom seen dust-ridden mothballs infested heroes for this crossover ,aren't they ?
Seems like DC is trying to revitalised some of their underused heroes , either through this series or Morrison's seven soldiers.

Yeah, isn't is awesome?! Screw Superman, I want more Ragman and Detective Chimp!

Loren

04-04-2005, 08:55 AM

Is anyone else having trouble with viewing the preview? I got the other three to work, but DoV keeps giving me an error message, saying that Adobe can't read it. (And this isn't the first time I've gotten this type of error message with a DC preview.)

Loren

Apathy Boy

04-05-2005, 12:00 AM

Well the previous cop was chosen because he was, for a long time at least, an extremely corrupt cop and needed to be redeemed. Then once he'd reached redemption he went to heaven, and Hal Jordan could move in.Not exactly. Although Jim Corrigan was a ruthless bastard, he was never corrupt. (As a matter of fact, he was killed because he was one of the few cops who refused to sell out to mobster Gat Benson.) Corrigan could get pretty bloody when going after a collar, but he operated in the pre-Miranda days so that's hardly an indictment of his morality.

Which is not to say Corrigan was an angel. He had serious anger management problems. But that was what attracted the Spectre force to him, because the Spectre is fueled by rage (or was at the time).

Eventually, Corrigan began to grow weary of the anger, and found it increasingly difficult to reconcile himself with the black-and-white world-view of the Spirit of Vengence. So he and the Spectre force had a cordial parting of the ways, with Jim going to heaven and the Spectre force awaiting a new host.

Forsaken_One

04-05-2005, 12:18 AM

I stand corrected.

The Adventurer

04-05-2005, 07:08 AM

You know, i wasn't planing to pick this up, I actualy didn't know what it was about until I read this thread (I'm was only really interested in Rann-Thanagar War, because my love of DC Space heroes know no limit) but finding out Willingham is penning, and guys like Ragman and Detective Chimp are in it, has got me craving it.

Ray192

04-05-2005, 10:49 AM

huh? How did that crystal suddenly go from Khadaq (or whatever it was) to Jean's room? :confused:

ducklord

04-05-2005, 10:53 AM

huh? WTF? How did that crystal suddenly go from Khadaq (or whatever it was) to Jean's room? :confused:

A wizard did it.

No, really.

Gauss

04-05-2005, 12:27 PM

For those who can't read the preview: Download it, then use Acrobat Reader version 6.0 to open it. Worked for me. :)

Anyway... HOLY CRAP!!! :eek:

Some things I noticed:

-Jean Loring's possession looked pretty final: vaporization, then being rebuilt in a new "Eclipso" bod. Has this sort of thing happened to any of Eclipso's previous victims?

-I think this could be open-ended as to whether Jean was being influenced by Eclipso during "Identity Crisis", but I'm going with "no".

-Finally, what the hell is wrong with the guys at Arkham? If somebody doesn't go running towards the huge magical explosion and get killed, then... on second thought, maybe the guys at Arkham are starting to learn. :D

Gauss

04-06-2005, 03:50 PM

huh? How did that crystal suddenly go from Khadaq (or whatever it was) to Jean's room? :confused:

That's actually being answered in Action Comics. (http://www.popcultureshock.com/reviews.php?id=4050) Apparently the gem's been bouncing around the globe, one step ahead of Dr. Bruce Gordon.

hondobrode

04-06-2005, 09:32 PM

I wish you could have heard me yell "WOW !" when I read the spoiler at the beginning of this thread.

That just made this mini a lot cooler. Up unitl I read that, this was my least fav of the four. Now I would say it's Villains Inc, which still sounds cool in kind of a retro SSoSV way.

Paragon Kobold

04-07-2005, 12:55 AM

The Spectre should be an interesting character on his own, not a ressurection machine for superheros. Besides, for Ted to become Spectre he'd have to have some horrible secret in his past that made him need redemption, and that'd be a bad, bad retcon.

I want Skeets to be the new Spectre.

The redemption is for allowing some football player to make off with
lots of historical artifacts, which is probably the worst crime a security robot can comit.

They may have to redesign the costume tho.

Zero Hunter

04-08-2005, 11:07 AM

After reading the interview with Willingham over at Newsarama i am really getting excited for this one. The way he talks about Detective Chimp being on a 50 year bender and is now a cranky hung over old monkey makes it worth the price of admision right there. I loved when he talks about the Spectre and his level of power.
I am officaly jazzed up for all four of these mini series now.

TCJohnson

04-08-2005, 02:08 PM

Why do I have the feeling they are going to kill off Blue Devil and Ragman? I really liked those characters too

Forsaken_One

04-08-2005, 02:17 PM

Why do I have the feeling they are going to kill off Blue Devil and Ragman? I really liked those characters too
Yeah. Because god knows no one would have killed off Blue Devil and Ragman. :rolleyes:

powerforward

04-08-2005, 03:09 PM

detective chimp? is m'azing man next?

Sharcque

04-08-2005, 03:15 PM

Maybe the new Spectre will be Sue Dibney? Then she would get her revenge on Jean Loring/Eclipso....Just a thought....

Forsaken_One

04-08-2005, 03:34 PM

detective chimp? is m'azing man next?
If Detective Chimp is around, can his immortal friend Rex the Wonder Dog be far behind?

Xero

04-08-2005, 07:20 PM

Bill Williangham drops some info on Detective Chimp and Blue Devil in this Newsarama interview.

http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31287

Loren

04-08-2005, 09:12 PM

detective chimp? is m'azing man next?

Yes. And like the Chimp, he's going to be angry and bitter. It'll be revealed that his innocence and naivete were actually the consequence of sinister manipulations on the part of some other DC character. Drugs may have been involved. His best friend Denton will be unceremoniously killed off, and 'Mazing will give up the cape and end up in the gutter.

And don't even ask what DC has planned for Sugar & Spike...

Loren

Evan Waters

04-08-2005, 10:42 PM

Actually, I gotta say- an angry drunken chimpanzee detective is, for all intents and purposes, really cool.

Paul Newell

04-13-2005, 10:42 PM

Added this to the rules last night, but I thought I'd post it in the particular threads to let you guys know what's going on:
I just noticed that the four mini series tying into Countdown are staggered so that there'll be a different issue each week.
So we can showcase and focus discussion on each of the four, we've decided for the week an issue is released to sticky the mega-thread for that particular mini. After a week it'll be replaced by the next and so on. Hopefully this will cut down on duplicate discussion and make things a bit interesting for you guys. :)