Countdown to Infinite Crisis (Spoilers!)

[kevhines]

I was going to reply in the other thread, but I keep ranting into spoiler territory, so just to play it safe here is a new thread. Seriously. I am going to SPOIL a lot of stuff (possibly.)

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

Man, did I hate COUNTDOWN. I knew I would. But 1 dollar for 80 pages, I figured I would give it a shot. If nothing else I am supporting the price.

First off, I am a fan of Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, and Maxwell Lord. I loved the Justice League years when those characters were featured.

What did this series do? It made Blue Beetle cool again? Not for me. They talk about how he has been a joke since those Justice League days. That bothers me. Sure he made jokes. Sure the plots were silly at time. But the Justice League still saved the world. Blue Beetle still had respect from the heroes. Why would he know be a bother to Martian Manhunter? Why would Wonder Woman say she believed him, but not help him when his life was in danger? Why would his friend Oracle STOP taking his calls? Great heroes these guys turned out to be.

I have always liked the idea of Blue Beetle. That legacy does things no other super-hero legacy did. Ted Kord was supposed to gain the scarab (that is mentioned in COUNTDOWN) to gain the powers that the first Blue Beetle had. But the scarab was lost. Instead of giving up, Ted used his money and brains to make himself a hero. To carry on the legacy anyway. That is huge. He didn't train from the time he was 6, or get bit by a radioactive animal. This dude just did it because he felt he had to. To honor his friend and mentor. That is huge. And a very unique character (that is now dead)

Booster Gold is a loser from the future, who to get a new start steals superhero items from a super-hero museum and travels back in time and uses those items to become a hero. And rich. He learns along the way to be a real hero (and not just in it for the money). Those flaws (bad initial motivation, running from problems) are great. Booster was a fun character that has, as always, been reduced to a guy that just wants money, and rarely does the righ thing. That way when he does the right thing its a big moment. For me it was a shame that he took the step back to being a loser again.

Maxwell Lord is evil? Why? Why did he want the League to be a joke (which again, it wasn't...it just was silly)? He wanted the world to be in danger? I can understand wanting to run an organization to keep its eyes on the heroes. I can see Max running that. I can see Max being a grey area with his networks. But hating super-powered heroes? Killing his friend? That is a huge fucking leap, that is not justified. And takes away from Max's strengths. A business man who works with super-heroes. How can super-heroes make money (to live off of - to deal with damages they may cause - to further their ability to help the world)? I like that better then Batman's limitless funds being the deus ex machina that funds every super-hero vehicle we see.

All 3 characters are mishandled. Is this an interesting story? Super-Heroes wiping the mind of a villian. the Justice League turing their back on former members? Sure. I guess that is interesting. But it takes away from the icons of the DC universe. These comics and heroes should be above that? If I want to see dark looks at these ideas I can read Planetary or books like Watchmen. These stories can be told. And without hurting the characters I love.

Now I am not too worried. I just won't buy these comics. And they will sell. And then 10 years from now it will all be so far forgotten it won't be mentioned. Maybe Blue Beetle will be brought back. Almost every other hero gets brough back. I just can't be interested in these stories.

I don't think I explained this well...I am in full on rant mode. But it boils down to this.
This story doesn't play with the characters. They CHANGE them. And not organically. Not through earned smart characterization. This isn't Matt Murdock being broken down like he was in Born Again. This isn't Superman being drive to a point where he has to kill someone. This isn't Jason Todd becoming a loose cannon more and more until he runs off and makes one mistake too many. This is a drastic shift to shock. And I am more dissappointed then shocked.

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

"But hating super-powered heroes? Killing his friend? That is a huge fucking leap, that is not justified. And takes away from Max's strengths. A business man who works with super-heroes."

At least two of the three writers -- don't know much about Johns -- have expressed political viewpoints that would tend to put them at odds with what they'd refer to as "big business."

I'm sure they're just falling into the "business = evil" trap that their political bent tends to inspire.

Now I've gone and derailed this whole thread, watch.

-Augie

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

Here's someone else who really really liked (note: extreme sarcasm) the issue:

http://goodcomics.blogspot.com/2005/03/dc-countdown-to-infinite-crisis.html

I was then going to go on about how amazed I was by the ability of Dan Didio, Geoff Johns, Greg Rucka and Judd Winick to refer to the book (in Dan Didio’s afterward) as a “throwback to yesterday.”

I was going to express amusement at the idea that this comic was a result of the four of them discussing “what got us hooked on comics in the first place, high-octane action, bigger-than-life adventure, inconceivable villains, and the greatest heroes overcoming impossible odds.” Especially the last bit. I was going to have great fun pointing out how having a superhero get shot in the head was not exactly a great example of the greatest heroes overcoming impossible odds.

-Augie

[Kyle]

Yes, it's because they're dirty liberals. Had Chuck Dixon written this it would have been perfect.

It had to be Maxwell Lord because the entire crux (unintentional reference, I swear!) of these stories (Countdown and Identity Crisis) has been the JLI. There are hundreds of supporting characters in the DCU, but they picked Sue Dibney for a reason, just as they picked Beetle for a reason. It's all going to come down to the JLI and I wonder if this could lead into the rumored stable creative team for JLA.

Evidently it's been stated in interviews with Dan Didio that Booster Gold plays a big role in what's to come.

Like Augie said in the other thread, this just means I can avoid a whole slew of comics for the next year.

Like Kevin said above -- all of this will be erased ten years from now, anyway.

I hadn't been to a comic book store in 7 weeks and things like this don't really draw me back in.

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

Abhay rips into the issue, page by page. Friggin' hilarious:

http://www.comicscommunity.com/boards/pop/?read=28386

-Augie

[Kyle]

Anyone else see the Spoiler Sport article at Newsarama about the latest issue of Batman?

We're going to get multi-verses again, people. We're going to get them again and Beetle will return, more than likely with the rest of the Charlton heroes.

That's my guess, anyway.

Because the character in Batman HAS to be the Earth-2 version.

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

It's time for Grant Morrison to return with his HyperTime theories.

-Augie

[kevhines]

Anyone else see the Spoiler Sport article at Newsarama about the latest issue of Batman?

We're going to get multi-verses again, people. We're going to get them again and Beetle will return, more than likely with the rest of the Charlton heroes.

That's my guess, anyway.

Because the character in Batman HAS to be the Earth-2 version.

I have not read that article (but I will do it right now).

I feel like Countdown is setting up a new beetle, what with the scarab being left behind with Merlin (or whoever).

Though giving the scarab to some Kyle Raynor like kid does not interest me as much as Ted Kord becoming a hero without the scarab.

[roach04]

Cripes, this sounds like ass. And, due to the shit system, I've already pre-ordered a bunch of these books...

Couple of things I've wondered about since IC ended:

(1) Does no one in the current DC stable of "talent" and management understand the Giffen/DeMattias JLA? No one? Not a single person? I find that really hard to believe, but it seems to be the case.

(2) Every post I write everywhere makes me seem crotchety...but...has anyone working on Infinite Crisis read a comic book published prior to 1986? Are they aware of their existence? B/c, like Kev says, this stuff isn't a throwback to the good ole days - far from it. Somebody should ship them the complete Bob Haney B&B. Augie, you should start a Pipeline collection and we'll mail it over!

[Kyle]

Augie, I'm going to see Morrison tonight at Meltdown Comics in Hollywood -- I'll be sure to ask him about Hypertime for you!

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

Thanks, Kyle. I've been waiting years to see if they were ever going to touch that one again. Call it "professional curiosity." ;-)

Murray - Oh, no. I stink at organization. Someone else had better organize. I'm lucky I can get two columns and a podcast done this week. Thank goodness my boss isn't looking over my shoulder 8 hours a day. ;-)

-Augie

[De Carabas]

Some very interesting points mixed in with some snark.

http://thexaxis.com/misc/dccountdown1.htm

EM, who still hasn't received his copy and is forced to live vicariously through the reviews of others

[Chris Lang]

It's time for Grant Morrison to return with his HyperTime theories.

-Augie

I thought Hypertime was Mark Waid's idea.

Chris Lang

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

I believe it was worked out jointly by the two, but I could be wrong. It's been a long time. . .

-Augie

[Matches Malone]

Because the character in Batman HAS to be the Earth-2 version.

There was no Earth-2 version of the character you're describing. Maybe it's the pre-Crisis, Earth-1 version, though. That'd be dumb, imo, but not any dumber than bringing said character back in the first place.