Appearances of Pre-CRISIS characters in Post-CRISIS DCU: real deal or Hypertime?

[Buried Alien]

For the first twelve years or so after CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, DC's management pretty much made it a hard and fast rule that there would be no direct references or appearances by Pre-CRISIS characters. Since the introduction of Hypertime in 1998, however, Pre-CRISIS characters have re-emerged in droves. Kal-L appeared briefly in THE KINGDOM. An apparent analogue of the Pre-CRISIS Earth-1 Superboy appeared in the pages of the 1990s SUPERBOY title not long after Hypertime was introduced. The previous SUPERGIRL series ended with an appearance by a character all but identical to the Pre-CRISIS Earth-1 Supergirl, and the current Supergirl is for-all-intents and purposes the Pre-CRISIS Supergirl as well.

But are any of these authentic, honest-to-goodness Pre-CRISIS characters returned from nonexistence, or simply Hypertime equivalents?


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Kevin Street]

Isn't that pretty much a matter of opinion? I'm not sure how anyone could tell the difference.

With some of these characters that get rebooted multiple times, I like to try to explain things by using physics terms. If you'll excuse the science metaphor, it's like the pre-Crisis timeline existed in a lower energy state than the post-Crisis one. That is, the pre-Crisis timeline is more natural or "easier" to maintain than the post-Crisis timeline, so the post-Crisis universe keeps trying to return to a pre-Crisis state. That's why certain characters like Supergirl and concepts like the Legion keep popping up over and over again - they're a visible manifestation of the universe working itself out. But the universe is huge and complicated and the Crisis added a tremendous amount of energy to the system, so the process is chaotic. It proceeds in fits and starts, and frequently reverses itself before beginning again.

Anyway, that's my geeky way of trying to explain the vagaries of comic book publishing by using terms within the DCU itself. ;)

[Paradox]

I also don't see the difference. An appearance by a pre-Crisis character appears THROUGH the concept of Hypertime. Hypertime isn't another dimension, it's a concept (or maybe could be referred to as a "gateway"). If they seemed like the pre-Crisis version, then they probably were.

I think Buried's been missing the old Continuity Board, lately. ;)

[CLavery]

Hmm...could be related to the up and coming infinite crisis event.

Can someone give me a definition of hypertime? I am completely lost and confused when people talk about it.

[Paradox]

Hypertime - "It's All True" Everything DC's ever published exists in some dimension or other out there accessible through Hypertime.

The long drawn out explanation is...

SpaceTime is like a river, with tributaries flowing in and out of it. Sometimes, through Hypertime, an event can touch an event in another timeline/dimension and then disappear, or remain, or change what's there.

But, frankly, that never made any friggin' sense to me. Waid and Morrison came up with it, and to be honest, their explanation just sounds like Morrison all whacked out and trying to say "the multiple Earths are back" without actually saying so.

[Viking Bastard]

And for an extra long explaination:
Think Planetary's snowflake. But everchanging.

Hypertime takes the 'everbranching tree of possibilities' concept (a classic sci-fi concept created neither by Marvel, Moorcock, Star Trek or Grant Morrison) and takes it to a new extreme. Everchanging continuity, timelines branch off each other and join together. Parasite realities feed off the imaginations of larger timelines, while stray concepts travel from one reality to another.

Think of it like this: The pre-crisis multiverse was a 'tangle' of timelines, slightly influencing each other, like the adventures of the JSA becoming comic books in the JLA universe. Over time, as the 'gravitational pull' of the DCU 'tangle' increased by it's sheer conceptual mass, they started to pull more and more realities into it's 'orbit', like the Fawcett and Charlton universes. With time, as the different universes interacted more and more, the membrane seperating them became thinner and thinner, more and more concepts and ideas slipping through until finally they were joined into one, larger reality (that is, via Crisis). This did not only change the newly born universe's today and future, but the past as well. It did not become a new reality, it had always been that reality.

But realities don't always join, but split, too. Like the Image universe. When it was born, bred from stray ideas from different sources, it was a solid whole, but after while it began to break apart, first into a 'tangle' of related timelines, but over time they started to stray away, some forever wandering through limbo (like Rob Liefeld's stuff) and some drawn to other tangles (Wildstom joining the DCU).

There are forever small short-lived realities branching off the larger ones (Elseworlds), sometimes taking a life of their own (like the Kingdom Come and DKR universes), sometimes withering away into nothingness or bleeding into other worlds (most EWs). Every once in a while two branches from different realities collide, creating strange Amalgam-like universes.

As new timelines and stray concepts branch into and away from the main DCU timeline, it forever changes, eternally remaking itself. Sometime in the past the Doom Patrol became unhinged from the main DCU, going into Vertigo territories, bleeding in and out of core continuity, until it finally split away. But a seed of the concept remained, from which there blossomed a new Doom Patrol. Only time will tell if the old Doom Patrol will bleed back into continuity or if the new one will last.

Everything is connected in a ever-shifting network of worlds and ideas, forever branching into all directions, backwards to the past as well as forward to the future and sideways into other worlds.

Or, y'know, that's how I understand Hypertime.

[Puffy Treat]

and the current Supergirl is for-all-intents and purposes the Pre-CRISIS Supergirl as well.



What makes you think the current Kara is from the Pre-Crisis Multiverse?

Jeph Loeb is on the record saying that she's not from Hypertime, or a return of the original Kara.

A usage of the original character concept, but that's not the same thing.

[Paradox]

I don't know or care where she comes from. I just want her to be a big hoax and then gone.

Sorry to all her fans, but I LIKED all the "baggage" being cleared away from Superman with Man of Steel. Now if I can just find a way to get rid of that stupid dog! :mad:

[Reptisaurus!]

I don't know or care where she comes from. I just want her to be a big hoax and then gone.

Sorry to all her fans, but I LIKED all the "baggage" being cleared away from Superman with Man of Steel. Now if I can just find a way to get rid of that stupid dog! :mad:

Let's see... Scott Shaw! related Krypto cartoon on the way.

Looks like Krypto's here to stay.

Nyah! Nyah! Nyah!

*Patiently awaits the return of Streaky.*

[Paradox]

**sigh** I know, I know. Didn't we already get the return of a pseudo-Comet?

PLEASE Mr. Waid, no Super-Pets in the new Legion...well, maybe Proty, BY HIMSELF!

I like my Silver Age silliness where it belongs...in the Silver Age...

[Forsaken_One]

**sigh** I know, I know. Didn't we already get the return of a pseudo-Comet?

PLEASE Mr. Waid, no Super-Pets in the new Legion...well, maybe Proty, BY HIMSELF!

I like my Silver Age silliness where it belongs...in the Silver Age...
In the Day of Judgment miniseries one of the main characters is Detective Chimp. Can his good immortal friend Rex the Wonder Dog be far behind?

[Blue Spider]

An apparent analogue of the Pre-CRISIS Earth-1 Superboy appeared in the pages of the 1990s SUPERBOY title not long after Hypertime was introduced.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

That Superboy first appeared in the Zero Hour tie-in issue of the then-current Legion of Super-Heroes series and than popped into the Zero Hour tie-in of the then-current Superboy series, which actually makes the appearance quite a bit before Hyptime was introduced.

During the "Hypertension" storyline the character returned and the modern Superboy was a bit confused at that. Perhaps that Post-Crisis analogue wasn't an alternate timeline bleed-through like SB thought. Perhaps he was. Either way, he didn't die at the end of his first Superboy appearance.

What is Hypertime? As far as I can tell, it's a description of DC Universe time and space where the parallel and alternate timelines are not always running parallel and they tend to intersect and branch whenever the writer or editor screws up, continuity goes wonky, and Blackhawks appear in JLA: Year One when according to another title they should not have been around in that form.

Where the Multiple Earths were an odd variation in space, Hypertime is a matter of time.

CJA