Mrs. Clinton Hates Videogames

[Convoy]

"Children are playing a game that encourages them to have sex with prostitutes and then murder them," Clinton said in a statement. "This is a silent epidemic of media desensitisation that teaches kids it's OK to diss people because they are a woman, they're a different colour or they're from a different place."

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/599/599796p1.html

[Cyke]

This, coming from a woman who thought a joke about Mahatma Ghandi running a gas station was a riot.

I hope she does indeed realize that games like those aren't targetted for kids in the first place.

[Knightosis]

God forbid this woman become president.

[Sanagi]

Let me guess, she's talking about Mario Party, right? I did think the "hookers and coke" mini-game went a little far.

[Cyke]

Let me guess, she's talking about Mario Party, right? I did think the "hookers and coke" mini-game went a little far.

First thought that came up in my mind, man.

[Alex]

She's senator clinton now.
And its a clear political move, but this board should maintain the place of being the only non politcal board, so im going to smile and move along now.

[Sanagi]

She's senator clinton now.
And its a clear political move, but this board should maintain the place of being the only non politcal board, so im going to smile and move along now.
Well, it seems like we have a "politician X accuses video games of turning babies into flesh-eating perverts" thread appear on a regular basis, so I guess Q&A is the only truly non-political board.

[Mike Smash!]

Whoa, hold on a minute...

Did Hillary just say "diss"?

[Gaz]

Whoa, hold on a minute...

Did Hillary just say "diss"?
See? Even she's not safe from GTAs ghetto influence! :p

[The Fury]

Children are playing a game that encourages them to have sex with prostitutes and then murder them," Clinton said in a statement.
Er...I have to admit that I find it very distrubing when you here a 10 year old kid decribed this exact process. Seriously.

you know a lot of trouble would be solved in the Computer Game industry if GTA ahd not been made.

[Gaz]

Er...I have to admit that I find it very distrubing when you here a 10 year old kid decribed this exact process. Seriously.

you know a lot of trouble would be solved in the Computer Game industry if GTA ahd not been made.
However, we'd still be playing platfomers. I can deal with the trade off.

[The Fury]

However, we'd still be playing platfomers. I can deal with the trade off.
Indeed, there are so many quailty games out there, many of which are far better than the GTA games, yet the GTA games are ruining the industry, get rid of it and the industry will survive. And less fuss will be made.

[Gaz]

Indeed, there are so many quailty games out there, many of which are far better than the GTA games, yet the GTA games are ruining the industry, get rid of it and the industry will survive. And less fuss will be made.
I actally meant that as a bad thing, GTA innovated freeform gameplay outside of stat heavy RPGs. It's like saying that you'd have preferred Doom or Goldeneye to not have been made as they draw criticism for violence.

[Grant]

God forbid this woman become president.

So you think Bush is a GTA fan?

[Alex]

So you think Bush is a GTA fan?
He was governor of texas, he loves killing people, ESPECIALY hookers.

[The Fury]

I actally meant that as a bad thing, GTA innovated freeform gameplay outside of stat heavy RPGs. It's like saying that you'd have preferred Doom or Goldeneye to not have been made as they draw criticism for violence.
OK, my mistake, but my point stands.

Butthen, I guess you are right, people will use other games to use as their agruements, but GTA is at the extreme level, in no other game can you get with a prostitue and the kill her afterwards. Even Doom and Goldeneye has their sense of unrealism.

[Grant]

He was governor of texas, he loves killing people, ESPECIALY hookers.

Hmmm you got a point.

[Gaz]

OK, my mistake, but my point stands.

Butthen, I guess you are right, people will use other games to use as their agruements, but GTA is at the extreme level, in no other game can you get with a prostitue and the kill her afterwards. Even Doom and Goldeneye has their sense of unrealism.
Read FATAL and tell me that GTA is bad...

[SAMAS]

OK, my mistake, but my point stands.

Butthen, I guess you are right, people will use other games to use as their agruements, but GTA is at the extreme level, in no other game can you get with a prostitue and the kill her afterwards. Even Doom and Goldeneye has their sense of unrealism.

Personally, I'm not entirely sure all that was an intended consequence, but an effect of the game's engine combined with a hidden easter egg of sorts. As a joke, you can employ the services of a hooker in the game, and of course, the money changes hands. But as the game works, if you knock out or kill somebody, they drop whatever they're carrying. As the prostitute is carrying money, she drops it if she goes down. IIRC, you can play GTA3, Vice City, and San Andreas without ever touching a prostitute, and you most certainly don't have to do anything to her afterwards.

Hell, Rockstar never even told anyone about it, IIRC. Someone figured it out and word spread. By the same token, you can jump in an ambulance and help the sick and injured, take a police vehicle and uphold the law, or even do mundane stuff like drive a taxi or deliver pizza.

[Gaz]

Personally, I'm not entirely sure all that was an intended consequence, but an effect of the game's engine combined with a hidden easter egg of sorts. As a joke, you can employ the services of a hooker in the game, and of course, the money changes hands. But as the game works, if you knock out or kill somebody, they drop whatever they're carrying. As the prostitute is carrying money, she drops it if she goes down. IIRC, you can play GTA3, Vice City, and San Andreas without ever touching a prostitute, and you most certainly don't have to do anything to her afterwards.

Hell, Rockstar never even told anyone about it, IIRC. Someone figured it out and word spread. By the same token, you can jump in an ambulance and help the sick and injured, take a police vehicle and uphold the law, or even do mundane stuff like drive a taxi or deliver pizza.
Granted, there's a lot of collateral damage when you do that stuff. :D

[saintjon]

Am I the only one who thinks GTA just isn't that great anyways?

Seriously though if we didn't have GTA they would just find another game, such is the way of making noise for your platform.

[foxfire]

I hope she does indeed realize that games like those aren't targetted for kids in the first place.

Exactly. But I guess that way to many children do have access to them. But I guess there isnt really a solution because unlike Rated R movies you can't restrict a kid from playing a mature video game at home.

[Gaz]

Exactly. But I guess that way to many children do have access to them. But I guess there isnt really a solution because unlike Rated R movies you can't restrict a kid from playing a mature video game at home.
Over here you can. GTA carries an 18 certificate from the BBFC. That's legally binding on retailers.

[foxfire]

Well that may be true, but Im talking at home. If a 20 year old buys the game and brings it home, his 12 year old brother and his friends can play GTA for as long as they want. Well, I guess they can do the same thing with a Rated R DVD, so never mind.

[saintjon]

Seems like again the problem is parenting, no one makes these people buy the games for their kids and let them play them.

I've always felt that video games aren't gonna make a killer out of someone who isn't anyways, (well I feel that way about anything, tv, music, you name it) but it might be a bit of a push.

WTF don't any of htese politicians raise an uproar about the real problem, which is that people can't communicate with each other? If there's communication then the parents of these kids will either a) know that their kids are into something they don't approve of or b) will know that their kids are simply unequipped to deal with violent entertainment, whereupon you have problem way deeper than a friggin dirty violent game.

and c) why the hell are parents so indulgent these days? Give the damn kids shit, if they feel left out for not having Bloodfest 7 (on whatever medium) then they'll just have to damn well deal with it.

When I have kids you can bet your ass they aren't gonna have a damn cel-phone or any of that crap, and when they're being stupid they're gonna know about it, and when they don't need something I don't want them to have they aren't gonna get it.

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

However, we'd still be playing platfomers. I can deal with the trade off.


Yup.


Ignoring the whole 'hookers' thing, I like to look at how GTA has altered the rest of the industry. And no, I don't mean 'going gritty' (only a few companies have tried since then, and they're all horrible failures anyway).


GTA3 was the first time I could actually see the inside of a game as a living, breathing world. I was on the train tracks (hunting down some hidden packages) in Portland, when it started to rain. I hopped to the other side of the tracks (train was coming) and just started looking around. Trees blowing in the wind, people going about their business, cars crossing up and down the streets, the train stopping at the station to pick up passengers, and off in the distance, the glimmering lights of Staunton Island.


The adult storyline was only part of the reason it sold so well. Gaming better off if it had never come out? Uh...no.

That's just trying to shift blame all on to one game. They've been lampooning the Dooms and Mortal Kombats and Duke Nukems for years. Metal Gear Solid got hit as well. If GTA hadn't come out, one of the other games would have been the figurehead.

I'm sorry, but look at the other nine games parental groups had on their 'most dangerous' list. Half-life 2, for crying out loud! They even listed games that haven't come out, or some that don't even exist (Penny Arcade talked about it awhile ago). They wouldn't be happy unless we all played sanitized games.

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Personally, I'm not entirely sure all that was an intended consequence, but an effect of the game's engine combined with a hidden easter egg of sorts. As a joke, you can employ the services of a hooker in the game, and of course, the money changes hands. But as the game works, if you knock out or kill somebody, they drop whatever they're carrying. As the prostitute is carrying money, she drops it if she goes down. IIRC, you can play GTA3, Vice City, and San Andreas without ever touching a prostitute, and you most certainly don't have to do anything to her afterwards.



Exactly.


Folks, they don't have a 'sleep with the prossie, then kill her to get your money back' mini-game.

Fact is, if you kill *anyone* in the game, they drop money. Or weapons if they're part of a gang. Hobos drop Molotov Cocktails.

Killing prostitutes is not some kind of established and official part of the game, it's just someone exploiting some of the rules.

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Even Doom and Goldeneye has their sense of unrealism.

Unrealism? You can fall off a skyscraper, and only get a light scrape. Cars going ninety miles an hour won't squish you if they hit. In the game, the radio talks about a bill in Congress that will allow people to kill smokers on sight. Ammu-nations talks regularly about selling armor-piercing and anti-tank rounds. Several years ago they had an Australian/American war, where the kangaroos threw 'exploding boomerangs'. Up until the San Andreas, you drowned immediately upon hitting the water. You can take over for the Police, Taxis and Firemen, and nobody notices. CJ, Fido and Tommy carry enough weapons to weigh down a group of soldiers. You can go from being 300 pounds overweight to being scarily skinny just by running on a treadmill for two game days. Cops ignore your running red lights, going 100 in a 30, and sometimes even running over people. But when *they* jump in front of you, they go spazzy. Within a few minutes of a rampage, they can have the FBI, SWAT, and military coming after you. Tanks rolling down main street.


That's just a bit of it. Unrealism? They got it.



And for brutal killing of innocents, Doom, Deus Ex 1 and 2, Half-life 1 and 2, Fable, Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2, Way of the Samurai 1 and 2, Thief series, even car racing games have allowed you to run over the odd person here or there.

[Gaz]

Cops ignore your running red lights, going 100 in a 30, and sometimes even running over people. But when *they* jump in front of you, they go spazzy.

.
I knew I wasn't being paranoid. They ram you and it's YOUR fault? Well, that's actually pretty realistic :p

[Daemon]

IMO this just goes back to people not wanting to take the blame for their own actions/mistakes.

I mean if you really wantted to look at it, Pokemon is nothing more than a cutified cock fighting.

This unfortunetly isn't going to change till most of the gamers form the 80-90's start getting older and start telling their politcians that this is wrong or something.

As most americans still can't got it in their heads that cartoons/comics/games are "Just for the Kiddies" and not that its a medium thats evolving as its customer base starts getting older.

[abbas.khan]

I actally meant that as a bad thing, GTA innovated freeform gameplay outside of stat heavy RPGs. It's like saying that you'd have preferred Doom or Goldeneye to not have been made as they draw criticism for violence.

actually i think that would more or less belong to quest for glory.

[The Fury]

Now, I'm never going to win an arguement about this, yes GTA is unrealistic, ever single computer game is, if it was realistic it would be real life. I personally can't stand when people blame computer gmaes for themselves commiting crimes, it's stupid.


Look at my first post. I'm trying to see this from a different angle then the gamer I am. I have never thought GTA (any of them) is a good game. Not on the scale that everyone seems to think. But it is the a very highprofile game that everyone knows about, while games like Kingdom Hearts (whihc I think is so much better than any GTA game) are being ignored by kids in favore of going to finding a hooker and killing her afterwards, no one ever comments on game like that and how it promotes stuff, the gaming industry only gets bad press.

I was saying I agree in a way with H Clinton, and I still do, uintil parents and shops get their act together, thigs won't change, the esier option, Rockstar could stop making the game, this will never happened as long as it is making money.
.
.
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I'm going to stop before I get myself confused and dig anymore of this 10 foot hole I'm in.

[Cyke]

If Clinton does indeed become president, I wonder how much debate will be generated over video games as, say, Bush's fight to ban gay marriage. I find it highly disturbing that some people out there made more of a fuss over steroid use in baseball than the issues about the Iraqi War.

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

I was saying I agree in a way with H Clinton, and I still do, uintil parents and shops get their act together, thigs won't change, the esier option, Rockstar could stop making the game, this will never happened as long as it is making money.



As well they shouldn't have to. What the news channels seem determined to ignore, it that there are countless folks over the age of 18 who enjoy that series. The game is not for kids. It was not marketed towards kids. It was made for people who enjoy an adult story, and all the freedom the game gives.

The fact is this whole issue is coming up because parents aren't being responsible enough. The media and the government crap about it, but the rules (and the industry) aren't at fault. Parents are. The games have labels that tell exactly what type of content there is. If the parents buy it for their kids anyway, the responsibility is solely on them.

[Sanagi]

He was governor of texas, he loves killing people, ESPECIALY hookers.
Well that should have been his campaign slogan, nobody could argue with that!

[DrewTheXenocide]

I was saying I agree in a way with H Clinton, and I still do, uintil parents and shops get their act together, thigs won't change, the esier option, Rockstar could stop making the game, this will never happened as long as it is making money.
.
.
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I'm going to stop before I get myself confused and dig anymore of this 10 foot hole I'm in.

I think you're more blaming parents and Clinton is blaming the game.

I blame parents. I mean, video game, IMO, is dealing with the "mature" issue very maturely, for the lack of a better word. Even in the GTA: SA commercial, there's a bigass "ESRB: M" pic, when an announcer says "Rated M for Mature", before "WElcome to the Jungle" even starts.

[The Fury]

The fact is this whole issue is coming up because parents aren't being responsible enough. The media and the government crap about it, but the rules (and the industry) aren't at fault. Parents are. The games have labels that tell exactly what type of content there is. If the parents buy it for their kids anyway, the responsibility is solely on them.
Your right.

I blame parents. I mean, video game, IMO, is dealing with the "mature" issue very maturely, for the lack of a better word. Even in the GTA: SA commercial, there's a bigass "ESRB: M" pic, when an announcer says "Rated M for Mature", before "WElcome to the Jungle" even starts.
Again your right. Although such a obvious warning is not present on the UK advertisement (i Think).

*Fills in hole a bit*

[Gaz]

Your right.

Again your right. Although such a obvious warning is not present on the UK advertisement (i Think).

*Fills in hole a bit*
I think you might be right about our version of the ad. But it does have the big ass "18!" in the red circle on the box at least twice. And a decent shop assistant should ask any parent if they're aware of the content before ringing it up. (pal of mine works in a video game store)

[Alex]

Well that should have been his campaign slogan, nobody could argue with that!
I'd love it, hookers aren't people anyway.

[Scubbily]

Who CARES if thes games are realistic!! If a person cannot tell the difference between a videogame and real life they shouldn't be allowed to buy games in the first place. That's why people say games cause all the bad stuff, parents aren't smart enough to tell their kids that games aren't real and they shouldn't do what they do in games. That's why games like GTA and such should have disclaimers like the show Jackass. Something to the tune of: The scenes in this videogame are make-believe and should not be recreated at any time or place. This would set a line that lawsuits would not be able to cross.

[saintjon]

Yeah you can bet if I were going to make a game like that I'd damn sure cover my ass with a hefty disclaimer a split second after the company logo.

[Scubbily]

Damn skippy, I would! Big businesses are stupid these days, they aren't protecting their investments. And Clinton is just riding the tidal wave of hate against awesome videogames. Take me for example, I am a product of an age where I was 6 years old and playing Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter and I don't go out and try to pull Fatalities on people. Just shows you that parents try to cover up their stupidity by blaming it on the games. They bought their kids the games so it's their fault.

[saintjon]

Well you know, what about the damn kids themselves? some kid of mine pulled some stupid crap and tried to blame it on a video game I'd go friggin bananas.

but yeah, I hear you man. When I was in kindergarden I watched Robotech, you know the show where 98% of the earth's population got wiped out by aliens...

Oh yeah and then the same thing happened several more times :D.

[_Jaye_]

I'm am also in the group that believes the responsibility lies solely in the hands of the parents. The problem now, more then ever, is that alot of parents do not take an active interest in what their child is doing, so long as they are "being good".

Kids are able to get games from other places other then the hands of adults (trading them between each other, etc), so as long as parents do not check on what their kids are up to, then they'll never know, and they'll continue to blame others.

These parents need to make the effort to understand the activities that their own children find to amuse themselves, so that they are able to judge if their own child should actually be participating in that activity.

Alot of parents are ignorant of what these games contain, and then, when they find out from the mass media about the content of these games, they quickly try to blame anyone but themselves for their own ignorance.

If these parents actually took an interest in their own kids beyond the concept of being happy that they are out of their hair for the moment, then perhaps we wouldn't need to have these discussions.

[Copper]

Here's what I don't understand--

From what it sounds like she's going by second and third hand accounts of what actually happens in a game like that. Say I took a game like Knights of the Old Republic and most of you probably know where the storyline ultimately leads if you decide to go the Dark Side route, and the only thing I said is that you get to kill a fourteen year old girl in the game I GUARENTEE that the same media storm would be raised about KOTOR if that was the only aspect of the game that was played up.

From comic books to video games it seems any sensationalistic reporting of them to the general public fails to present adequate research that MAYBE everyone's preconceptions of them aren't correct and that there are games made for different age brackets. I'd give my 8 year old cousin Kingdom Hearts before I'd ever give them the Silent Hill series to play, and I know I don't have to explain to anyone here that those two games are made for two completely different audiences.

I'm not defending content--whats infuriating to me is that there are hundreds of video game magazines out there and strategy guides as well as internet review sites, (hell, read the damn reviews on AMAZON before buying the thing!) Add to the fact that most of these magazines are sold WHERE GAMES ARE SOLD, and they even have the helpful little rating on the front of the game packages now so parents have no excuse for not knowing what content is in a particular game other than being too lazy or busy to bother looking at what their children want.

Rant off.

[sixstringguild]

Two things:
1. Clinton said "diss". That was hilarious
2. To Clinton I say go ahead and pick a fight w/ one of the largest segments of the entertainment industry. They have lots of money that I'm sure the future Republican candidate would gladly take into his coffers. Heck I'm sure Microsoft has a few spare dollars they could throw in as well...please, Hillary, keep it up!

[Scubbily]

This could really backfire on her. If another person picks up on the reason kids do stupid shit like reenacting the games, Clinton is screwed. All the person needs to do is say that it's the parent's duty to explain to their kid that games are make-believe. I've played GTA and I don't have any urges to go out and kill a cop. And that's because I have a strong sense of reality and I know that GTA isn't real.

[Perry Holley]

Well, it seems like we have a "politician X accuses video games of turning babies into flesh-eating perverts" thread appear on a regular basis, so I guess Q&A is the only truly non-political board.However, I would like to note that when some idiot politician accuses games (in whatever form) of causing the downfall of humanity, it gets shot down by pretty much everyone here.

Which is to say, the Games board is wonderfully bi-partisan in that regard.

[Crinos]

Hilarry Clinton has no right to criticize anything, or to be any kind of political leader. As good looking as she is she still wasnt able to keep her husband from cheating on her with women who looked like side show attractions.

The only reason she became senator was because she rode the coatails of her hubbys popularity.

And this anti video game s*** is just that. You dont want your kids exposed to this sort of thing? take some f***ing initiative and dont fucking buy them the game.

[Royal]

I love it when a senator plays telephone with information & then trys to hammer it in to a mold of social typecasts which have been obsolete for quite a while.

She's just another f***cking boomer who doesn't take a look outside the cave once in a while.

[Tenacious N]

I would LOVE to see a Mario Party coke and hookers game. I'd be the first one in line to buy it.

[saintjon]

Maybe they should bring back Conker for his own special party game. Oh yeah Bill Gates is a cockroach humping greedhead and bought Rareware. My mistake.

[Sanagi]

Maybe they should bring back Conker for his own special party game. Oh yeah Bill Gates is a cockroach humping greedhead and bought Rareware. My mistake.
More to the point, Rare hasn't made a decent game in ages, even before Microsoft yoinked them.

But a Conker party game would be brilliant.

[Alex]

However, I would like to note that when some idiot politician accuses games (in whatever form) of causing the downfall of humanity, it gets shot down by pretty much everyone here.

Which is to say, the Games board is wonderfully bi-partisan in that regard.
There goes my new thread
"Solid Snake: War Hero or Liberal Pansy?"

[Sanagi]

There goes my new thread
"Solid Snake: War Hero or Liberal Pansy?"
He's a flipflopper.

Raiden is too but he does it naked.

[Hiromi]

Guess she wants to join the ranks of Tipper Gore and Joe Lieberman.

[Sanagi]

Guess she wants to join the ranks of Tipper Gore and Joe Lieberman.
In other words, the league of terminally uncool democrats.

[Perry Holley]

There goes my new thread
"Solid Snake: Warmonger, Liberal Pansy, or Libertarian Ubermensch?"Fixed your typo. :p

[MKTerra]

Hilarry Clinton has no right to criticize anything, or to be any kind of political leader. As good looking as she is she still wasnt able to keep her husband from cheating on her with women who looked like side show attractions.

The only reason she became senator was because she rode the coatails of her hubbys popularity.

And this anti video game s*** is just that. You dont want your kids exposed to this sort of thing? take some f***ing initiative and dont fucking buy them the game.I'm confused... do you put a :D above all of your posts? :confused: :p

[Smokey]

wait..we ARENT supposed to murder prostitutes? *leaves*

[Crinos]

I'm confused... do you put a :D above all of your posts? :confused: :p

Yeah, its kinda my trademark. Only time I dont do it is when something Genuinely pisses/upsests me.

Seriously, Hillary Clinton isnt worth me wasting one of these :mad: on.

[heretic]

Somehow... I find official disapproval of Grand Theft Auto to be a matter of little real concern.

When people generalize from such pointlessly misogynistic/violent BS, or Video Game Fans feel compelled to defend said garbage without reservation, then we would worry.

HTG

[Bakema NL]

Jeez woman, lighten up, sit back, relax and smoke a cigar or something.

Television corrupted the sould of humankind, then it was pop-music, comics had done it at a certain time, after the early pop-music we had heavy metal which was particularly evil and now we have a new scapegoat people.....games.......our souls are lost...cope with it Hilary, or try a game of your own.

[Hiromi]

I'm confused... do you put a :D above all of your posts? :confused: :p

I'm confused too, did he just say Hilary Clinton was good looking?

[BlairH]

There's nothing I hate more than politicians who blame murders on inanimate objects. The buck stops at the person who did the deed, not the knife/gun/movie/game/comic book. A "killer instinct" is not something that can be acquired through games. People who say that obviously haven't had to kill somebody. If exposing folk to games was enough to turn them into killers, why do we waste thousands of dollars in infantry training when we could just sit them in front of Halo 2 and "corrupt" them.

[mgs]

Let me guess, she's talking about Mario Party, right? I did think the "hookers and coke" mini-game went a little far.
probably cuts too close to home, dealing with all those politicians and all... ;)

[Crinos]

I'm confused too, did he just say Hilary Clinton was good looking?

Better looking than Linda Trip and Monica Lewinsky.

Everything is relative my friends. :D

[pirulaso]

this is just the new thing to get angry about. its an excuse to bad parenting or lack of help for these misfits. i have more problems with gta's inconsistincies (crime history and structure)than its violence. i mean its a fun game but no way as great as ppl say it is. shooting is a ***** sometimes and missions are dumb. i mean cmon, a little effort and this game could be truly great. back to the topic, clinton rhymes with mitten............i'll leave now.

[Hiromi]

Better looking than Linda Trip and Monica Lewinsky.

Everything is relative my friends. :D

Yeah, maybe if I were as old as my Grandfather I'd find her attractive too :p