COUNTDOWN TO INFINITE CRISIS: Spoilers

[Paul Newell]

This is the place to discuss Countdown to Infinite Crisis. Please post your reviews, thoughts and opinions here.

NOTE: I know some of you can feel quite deeply about the events depicted in the one shot, but please remember the rules for discussion (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=40848).

[Captain Jim]

Also, no need to use spoiler tags in this thread. It's ASSUMED that everything herein will contain spoilers. If you don't want to read them, please exit now. :)

This thread replaces the earlier "Speculation & Spoilers" thread that ran before this title was released. If you would like to read these posts, you can find them here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=48751).

[Adam Crocker]

NOTE: I know some of you can feel quite deeply about the events depicted in the one shot, but please remember the rules for discussion (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=40848).

1. This is a PG or PG 13 Forum- Try to keep swearing to a minimum. No using the F bomb.

You mean I can't use "Fudge"!?! Ah, darn! Garsh! Shucks!

[Paul Newell]

You mean I can't use "Fudge"!?! Ah, darn! Garsh! Shucks!

You're going to Heck for that! :evilsmile

[TCJohnson]

Heck is where they make you read Lightning Bolt Entertainment comics all day....it gets very boring very fast.

[Adam Crocker]

Heck is where they make you read Lightning Bolt Entertainment comics all day....it gets very boring very fast.

Would that mean that Heaven is where they have compilations of J-Bolt press releases? (Those never get boring!)

[CLavery]

Heres the article from Newarama:

http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30597

Heres a link to a scan of the 2nd printings cover (**WARNING SPOILERS**):

http://www.newsarama.com/DC/Countdown_more/COUNTDOWN2ndPRINT.jpg

[Neolucifer]

I'm happy for DC , even if i'm a Marvel fan at the Core . While i didnt find IC all that great , it was definitely a good read , and i suppose that if i cared about all those dc characters , i might even like it more .

Anyway after IC , i'm following the "buzz/hype" , trying Countdown , and wish DC the best . Nothing good would result from any of the big two editors single handlely dominating the market .

[tony2074]

identity crisis was meant as a set up to all of what will happe this year....the real crisis isn't the 4 minis that are coming, but it will happen in the fall.

[JTLauder]

Thought it should be pointed out that the 2nd printing cover price is double that of the 1st printing. Granted, $2 for 80 pages is way cheaper than you'll ever find, but even with a new cover, shouldn't a 2nd printing NOT cost more than the original?

[GremlinClr]

Heres the article from Newarama:

http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30597

Heres a link to a scan of the 2nd printings cover (**WARNING SPOILERS**):

http://www.newsarama.com/DC/Countdown_more/COUNTDOWN2ndPRINT.jpg

Y'know halfway through the download I thought you had mistakenly linked to the first printing cover but when it got done I saw the difference.

[foxfire]

Thought it should be pointed out that the 2nd printing cover price is double that of the 1st printing. Granted, $2 for 80 pages is way cheaper than you'll ever find, but even with a new cover, shouldn't a 2nd printing NOT cost more than the original?

I know what's up with the 1.99 price?

[Dante]

Boy its been a long time since I even visited the boards let along posted. Months and months.

Anyway.. really excited for this first issue of the whole DC Countdown stuff. I'm dedicated to get it all and follow the whole story line. Well as long as it doesnt suck.

The guy at my local retailer let me take a look at DC countdown... it looks awesome. Really good artwork. Love that Morales... and looks like just a solid story. And yes he did spoil the ending for me. Poor old Beetle... but it was just an awesome looking action scene, can't wait to get to the comic shop either today or tomorrow.

Dante

[Expletive Deleted]

I kind of liked the new OMAC design.

Uh . . . that's about it, really.

[Steeven]

I was really enjoying this book because it was looking as if the Blue Beetle, my all time favorite DC character, was being brought back out into the front lines . . . then that ending.

Dang.

[Michael P]

From my blog:

Why Countdown Doesn't Work
So, like many of you, I bought the 80-page, $1.00 Countdown to Infinite Crisis today. It's billed as the lead-in to no less than four mini-series, all of which are leading into the NEXT big DCU event, Infinite Crisis, which will supposedly change the DCU forever, just like what happened with the original Crisis On Infinite Earths.

Honestly, this post isn't concerned with that. That's all marketing hype, and I'm more interested in story. Countdown has a story, 80 uninterrupted pages of it. And boy, did I not enjoy that story.

At a simple level, it's damn depressing. Blue Beetle's life is stripped away from him, and then he gets shot in the head by a guy he kinda-sorta trusted. The writers (there are four in total, and I don't recall offhand who wrote the last chapter) try to downplay this by giving him an "I'd rather die than betray my friends" moment, but he still gets shot in the head, and it's still depressing. Especially since earlier in the story, Beetle's partner in goofery, Booster Gold, is badly burned, and we learn that his robot buddy Skeets was unceremoniously disassembled and turned into tracking equipment by the mysterious OMAC project. Skeets, as you may recall, featured prominently in the Justice League Unlimited episode "The Greatest Story Never Told," and was received warmly by the audience. Well, kids, don't go looking for wacky ol' Skeets in any mainstream DCU comics. Stick with the JLU comic, where both he and Beetle are alive and well.

So, I didn't care for the tone. But beyond that, the story just does not work at all. There's a very simple reason for this: The plot requires every single hero in the DCU with the exception of Beetle and Booster to behave like an unmitigated dick. For the entire story, Beetle goes to his fellow heroes for help, and they blow him off. Millions of dollars are embezzled from his company (and funneled through Waynetech, yet), and they blow him off. 100 lbs. of Kryptonite vanishes from a Kord Industries warehouse, and they blow him off. He's attacked by The Madmen, and they blow him off. His friggin' house gets blown up, and they blow him off. (Specifically, Shazam blows him off. Yeah, that's right, the all-powerful wizard who lives in the Rock of Eternity and can do damn near anything doesn't give him so much as a cryptic clue.) And so, when Beetle finds a way to track whoever's behind all this stuff, he does so alone, not even with backup from Oracle. And gets beaten and shot in the head for his efforts.

Seriously, what the hell? Is it something in the water? Dr. Light ties up Green Arrow, and everybody and their brother is ready to storm Philadelphia to kick his ass, but they can't even spare Firestorm or Guy Garnder to help out the Beetle? Whatever happened to "The Justice League takes care of its own?" It goes to ridculous lengths: not only do Beetle's fellow superheroes refuse to lend him aid, but all of them except Wonder Woman don't even believe him. The missing money, the warehouse robbery that leaves no trace whatsoever, his goddamn house being blown up, nobody makes the simple connection that hey, somebody's got a mad-on for the ol' Beetle. Black Canary calls the affair a "waste of time." Guess Roy Harper's lucky she didn't feel that way back in 1969. In 2005, Blue Beetle is crap on their shoes, not worth the bare effort of an investigation. Even Wonder Woman gives no more than a "Let me know how it turns out."

The heroes of the DCU systematically belittle and abandon one of their own. That is not how superheroes should act. I can buy them being so swamped with crises that they can't spare enough time or manpower. I can certainlys buy Batman behaving like an utter dick in dismissing Beetle's concerns. But for them to treat a good man who's put his life on the line just as much as they have with utter disdain, without even the respect necessary to consider his concerns, is deplorable. These are not the actions of heroes; they do not in any way inspire or embody the noble aspects of the human spirit. The only one in the story who does is Ted Kord. He lives up to the ideal, and gets a bullet in the head for his troubles. Beetle sacrifices his life for his fellow heroes; they do not deserve that sacrifice. The reader is left with no choice but to agree with Maxwell Lord, the villain of the piece, when he says that the DC heroes are a threat to humanity. Certainly, if this is how they treat their friends, than six billion strangers shouldn't feel at all safe under their watch.

Beetle's fate is a tragedy, but not n the classic sense. The fault that led to his demise was not his own, but that of his peers, and of his writers.

This comic cost $1.00. I want my money back.

[Karl J. Barnes]

I enjoyed it. It was told in a noir-ish style and Beetle hasn't looked so good in a long while. Yes, it is sad that he was killed, but in a million years, I would never connected Maxwell Lord to anything like this!

It kind of made sense with Max's abilities to push people, but I never got the idea that he feared or hated metas. And if he wanted Beetle, then why not Batman? Probably because Batman wouldn't go along iwth it and plus, Max never really liked Batman or there may be other reasons.

But I did enjoy that the writers made Beetle competent and had him solve the mystery. Wonder if they will let Ralph,The Elongated Man, put the finishing touches on this plot. You know, a little revenge for what Checkmate has set in motion. I see them as the one's who might have let the cat out of the bag about the heroes' IDs. Though I am sure that Batman might share some of the blame, since it seems that O.M.A.C. seems to be one of his projects.

[AlanScott606]

I haven't gotten the issue yet but is it 100% clear that Beetle is dead?

[sixstringguild]

I believe more than ever now that Beetle will be back, more powerful than ever and will be a major antagonist in the infinite crisis, courtesy of the Scarab Beetle he possesses. This is not the end of our favorite goofball, except that when he comes back, he probably won't be giggling much...

Of course, I'm probably way off target w/ this one...

[spike1205]

yes, he's shot in the head and dan didio's letter on the letter's page asks us all to bid him farewell, but with a looming "crisis" who knows who will remain dead or be brought back

[Ryno]

I haven't gotten the issue yet but is it 100% clear that Beetle is dead?

Given the size of the hole in his head I'd say yes.

I'm wondering if Booster will end up getting his hands on the scarab and become the new Blue Beetle to avenge Ted and Skeets?

[The Crime Dentist]

I'm with you - Ditko's Beetle is my favourite character ever, and the Giffen/DeMatteis/Maguire Justice League is my favourite series ever. Watching it get torn down just for an "event" comic that'll be old news as soon as the next crossover comes really sucks. And having Martian Manhunter refuse to even pay attention to the guy...aside from it not really being in character, it's just cruel, tearing the Beetle down that much.

But the tale may not be done yet - the scarab is a symbol of rebirth, so there's a chance it may bring Kord back to life. But IIRC, the Scarab was revealed to have really been an alien parasite, using Garrett. It was defeated by both Beetles. It was lost on Pago island, and resurfaced and then was destroyed in Chicago - so how'd it get to a pyramid in egypt?

The one thing that's got me worried is that line near the end - "I tell myself there will be a third (Beetle) and I hope whoever he or she may be, they do better at it than I have."

If they're replacing Kord, a) I hate that, b) that sucks, c) whoever came up with that idea sucks, and d) the only way I could take it is if Booster's the new Blue Beetle, but does he really need to be?

Anyway I generally hate resurrections in comics, but this is one I'm going to keep reading, hoping for.

[IamtheRock3]

First off I love it greatest thing I read in years but this confirms they had it in for griften JLa

They even killed the little flying robot

now I see why it HAD to be in JLA classified

[Karl J. Barnes]

Maybe the Scarab is totally different from the one that the first Blue Beetle used.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Well, I wonder what is in store for Fire??? Have her become someone's rough trick??

[titanfan]

She's the last core member left (that's relatively untouched), isn't she?

They're probably saving her for Infinite Crisis #1.

[DarkCrisis]

1st Sue and now Ted. What a load of garbage.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Maybe they'll have her pull a Supergirl i.e. die in saving other heroes or something.

[IamtheRock3]

I cant wait for booster Gold Cocain Habit that falls out from this

[AlanScott606]

It started with Stephanie for me. DC seems to be heading down a path that will totally wipe out my favorites. I am just hoping beyond hope that Beetle will be back some way some how.

[AlanScott606]

About the only way short of bringing back Ted for DC to save this whole mess is to somehow have Booster turn out to be the one who saves the day.

Problem is they would more than likely kill him off also before letting him be the hero.

And they will probably find the cheapest way possible to kill off Fire too.

[TCJohnson]

About the only way short of bringing back Ted for DC to save this whole mess is to somehow have Booster turn out to be the one who saves the day.


In an interview in the recent wizard Geoff JOhns said that one of the purposes of Infinite Crisis is to show why the big three are the big three. My guess is Booster Gold will try to take down Max but will be killed to show how great the danger is how how heroic Batman really is in comparison.

[Forsaken_One]

I think this should be in the Countdown thread.

[IamtheRock3]

You know we dont all ways have to merge everything.

But if must be merge it merge..just thing get lost in the shuffle when something gets to 80 pages (which it will) you know?

[TCJohnson]

Here we go. In the wizard article it says:

However, DC will go on the record as saying the grand plan is gauranteed to include one-time B-lisers Booster Gold ("he's actually going to have a bigger role in the DCU than he's ever had before," says Johns).

Isn't that what they said about Blue Beetle?

[IamtheRock3]

As must As I HATE what there doing to the grifften Leauge

Got to admit

GREAT READ, very touching moment with booster and beetle

heart breaking ending and good charcterzations.

[IamtheRock3]

they said beetle would be a catalyste and in a way he certainly was.

[TCJohnson]

Didio said he would be the most important character in the DCU.

[titanfan]

In an interview in the recent wizard Geoff JOhns said that one of the purposes of Infinite Crisis is to show why the big three are the big three. My guess is Booster Gold will try to take down Max but will be killed to show how great the danger is how how heroic Batman really is in comparison.

Yeah, the Big 3 can redeem themselves for pretty much blowing Beetle off to begin with and acting like stuck up jerks. (Well ok, Wonder Woman came across as slightly compassionate)

[AlanScott606]

Yeah, the Big 3 can redeem themselves for pretty much blowing Beetle off to begin with and acting like stuck up jerks. (Well ok, Wonder Woman came across as slightly compassionate)

You know, just once I would like to see a story where it isn't the big three who come in and save the day. Let someone else shine for a change!

[Go Go]

Ech. I didn't like this on a lot of levels. I'm not fuming mad or furious or anything like that, but just thoroughly disappointed.

First things first, another character from one of the better eras of the Justice League and star of 2 of the best limited series put out in the past couple of years is now dead, with one more being made evil. Sure, Maxwell Lord was a prick and a jerk, but evil? Not even Sue would classify him as that.

The second thing is that this issue relies on a lot of the heavy handed voice overs where writers get characters to say things about a character that they'd never say outloud, only problem being Ted wouldn't have thought the way he did about certain characters. Yeah, he'd revere Superman and Wonder Woman, but a lot of the other things he said just didn't quite add up to being accurate. Ted's a dork in a lot of senses, but he's not as cheesy as those voice overs made him out to be.

The next thing is, that like Identity Crisis, this is a comic that was marketed by DC to be an a comic book that all comic fans "must" read. It made no distinctions that, perhaps, young comic book readers might be warned that violence occurs. Like I've said in other threads, kids aren't blind and do see a lot of violence on TV, sure that's a given. But having a guy get shot in the head in a panel (with bits being blown out mind you) to be followed up by a close up of Ted's deceased body and now-holey head just isn't something that should be shown in a comic that's geared and marketed towards younger readers. With a price of $1, a lot of kids who go in to comic shops will be prone to picking it up for both its price and its cover. If it was just this issue, I wouldn't probably be complaining about DC's shoddy marketing. But having this follow up the "must read" beaten-up-then-set-afire murder and re-told-rape, I'm just again left scratching my head wondering what the people at DC are thinking.

And finally, I just don't understand the killing of Blue Beetle. Sure, it's the gimmick aspect. I understand that they're setting it up for a new Blue Beetle to come along, but I just don't see the point in killing off a character just to introduce a new one. Especially considering all the praise that FKATJL and now its sequel are getting. If they didn't want to use Ted, fine. Put him in the same limbo that the old Captain Atom is in now that he's been replaced with that Breach character. Have him maybe be put into a coma and join those other characters like Halo and linger there. But considering how they wrote the other characters to have little respect for Blue, I don't see all of them showering him with respect and admiration enough to launch the next big cross over.

Oh well, there's only so much one can complain about before realizing what little effect it has. This is a lesson I learned with Identity Crisis. I don't like it, and that's my main point. I guess I'm getting DC's message that I'm not the comic fan DC wants right now.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

People focus too much on who dies in the story and not enough on the story itself.

It was epic, it was touching, it made me care about Beetle more than I ever have, it made me tremble in anticipation to see where everything's going to go...it was a GREAT story.

Yeah, Beetle died. But he went out with a BANG. He went out as a STAR. I'd rather have him die a meaningful death in a great story than have him spend the rest of DC continuity hanging around in the background wasting away.

[MJC]

Meh...I'm torn.

On a basic level, the plot was really good. But I don't appreciate them killing off Blue Beetle, and I really don't appreciate everybody in the league being an asshole.

That said, my curiousity is definitely piqued. I'm really curious to see what Bruce Wayne's connection to OMAC is.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

"You know, just once I would like to see a story where it isn't the big three who come in and save the day. Let someone else shine for a change!"

We just had one. It was called "Countdown" and it turned a character who had been seen as a joke for so long into one of the smartest people in the DCU and a true hero.

[TCJohnson]

Yeah, Beetle died. But he went out with a BANG. He went out as a STAR. I'd rather have him die a meaningful death in a great story than have him spend the rest of DC continuity hanging around in the background wasting away.

He died because all the people who were suppose to be his allys turned their back on him, laughed at him and betrayed him. He went out a joke.

[stealthwise]

.....................

[TCJohnson]

"You know, just once I would like to see a story where it isn't the big three who come in and save the day. Let someone else shine for a change!"

We just had one. It was called "Countdown" and it turned a character who had been seen as a joke for so long into one of the smartest people in the DCU and a true hero.

He didn't save the day...didn't save anything and still died a joke.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

In the eyes of the readers, in MY eyes...he went out a hero. That's the point. The other heroes may not take him seriously, but Beetle proved himself as a character...proved himself as a hero.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

He was the only one to solve the problem...the only one to put all the pieces together. It's not "saving the day" in the literal sense but he was clearly the one hero in the DCU who shined the brightest in the story. A "joke" would have fumbled around until Batman showed up to solve the mystery.

[tony2074]

i don't really care about anything. if those characters being killed had a book out, it wouldn't see more than a few issues, because it wouldn't get bought. now, that they're dying, everyones moaning. c'mon guys lets just put our feet up, and hop on for what hopefully will be a kick ass ride.
as for giffens jla, noones saying theres never gonna be another jla story by them again. oh no! but it'll be out of continuity!! who cares, as long as it works.

[Mia]

Interesting....I have four copies. At 1 dollar a piece, I couldn't resist. Maybe I should go and pick up some more....

[Mia]

I was just relieved to read that they weren't getting rid of continuity. I was worried about that....

[Astonishing X-Fan]

I don't get why people make such a huge fuss about heroes dying, personally. I think the stories would be a lot less interesting if they ALWAYS came back alive. Now if a death is meaningless and just for cheap shock value I can understand. But this death was not like that. It had a lot of meaning. A lot of impact. And it's going to lead to something far greater.

I love these epic, universe-wide storylines. I liked IC, I loved Countdown...and I'm staying tuned to the DCU all year. Can't wait for Villians United, OMAC, and Infinite Crisis.

[RedBaron]

By girlfriend bought it and I only had a chance to flip through it. For someone like me who does not have much invested in the DC universe in terms of character history and continuity (although I understand it and appreciate it), it seemed like a dramatic and mildly fulfilling read, especially for the price. That being said, more than Identity Crisis, which I liked but remains very problematic for me, CTIC really worries me about the new direction for DC.

This grim-and-gritty resurgence really bothers me. I don't like that all the big superheroes are such dicks, especially if DC is going to kill off the noble second tier heroes and their civilian partners. I doubt that DC is using the death of Blue Beetle and Sue Digby to work towards a climax where these terrible actions will be realized by the big three and that the big three will come to understand that they have stopped being heroes and need to get back to what makes them great. I don't think that is the plan. I just see more needlessly sensational violence and grim plots.

[Phoney Bone]

Ted Kord went out like a freakin' MAN!

I always liked him (and absolutly loved the Giffen Era of the League), but now, BLUE BEETLE II IS MY FAVORITE HERO EVER!

This book is fantastic and I am hooked like a trout on the Infiite Crisis!

[AlanScott606]

In the eyes of the readers, in MY eyes...he went out a hero. That's the point. The other heroes may not take him seriously, but Beetle proved himself as a character...proved himself as a hero.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. But I don't enjoy seeing my favorite DC characters dying off. I understand that some need to die but I think DC is going overboard with this. Not every major story needs a death!

I will say I have decided to stick with this for awhile though. I am hoping that they somehow revive Beetle. But knowing DC they won't.

[IamtheRock3]

I don't get why people make such a huge fuss about heroes dying, personally. I think the stories would be a lot less interesting if they ALWAYS came back alive. Now if a death is meaningless and just for cheap shock value I can understand. But this death was not like that. It had a lot of meaning. A lot of impact. And it's going to lead to something far greater.

I love these epic, universe-wide storylines. I liked IC, I loved Countdown...and I'm staying tuned to the DCU all year. Can't wait for Villians United, OMAC, and Infinite Crisis.


nobody saying it wasnt a good story. Just bummed out the regular fun leauge outside of continuty now and wont be the same really. It seem to be an effort to take the humorous charcters and kill them. There room for darknessxs and its a room for light. Really it was an actual effor it seem..mention the fun time gone.

And really beetle light was boosted, only for one issue though where he was killed. He failed..in a heroic way mind you but failed none the less. Does take away the impact of what dido says.

[ScottDMSimmons]

I liked the writing, but hmmmm.... the revelation and ending reminded me of another story I've read, one that got retconned away (sort of).

DOOM PATROL #57. In short, The Chief has decided it's up to him to better the world for humanity. But, oops, Josh seems to be sticking his nose into things, and BLAM! Josh is shot dead by Chief, who HEY! has been living a lie (he can walk). Cliff finds Josh's body and Chief starts unveiling his master plan to his admitted favorite. So in the end, we have mentor/benefactor betraying his friends. Now, I'll admit Countdown only had one head blown off, and DP basically has two.... still it was more than a little familiar to me already.

<<--R.I.P. Ted Kord.... until Infinite Crisis I hope. Hopefully Donna Troy and Hal Jordan are good recent precedences for a return.

--Scott

http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/3353/400/3353_4_057.jpg

[Phoney Bone]

First off I love it greatest thing I read in years but this confirms they had it in for griften JLa

They even killed the little flying robot



Giffen never used Skeets in the League.

My opinion...this whole event from start (Graduation Day) to finish (Infinite Crisis) will resolve in the tone of the "DCU" becoming more like the "DTU" (Dini-Timm Universe) that we see on TV.

[AlanScott606]

Ted Kord went out like a freakin' MAN!

I always liked him (and absolutly loved the Giffen Era of the League), but now, BLUE BEETLE II IS MY FAVORITE HERO EVER!

This book is fantastic and I am hooked like a trout on the Infiite Crisis!

It didn't take Beetle dying for me to consider him one of my top 3 favorite characters in DC. I would rather them show him being "the man" by having him prove himself by stopping Lord. Not getting his head blown off by him.

[Expletive Deleted]

In the eyes of the readers, in MY eyes...he went out a hero. That's the point. The other heroes may not take him seriously, but Beetle proved himself as a character...proved himself as a hero.The thing is, as various people have pointed out, the actions of all the other characters with respect to Beetle ring false. So his "heroic" death is built on a horribly shaky foundation.

It's hard to take the big moment of redemption and validation seriously when, before this issue, there was nothing that really needed redeeming or validating.

[TCJohnson]

THe Bruce Timm DCU stull allows some humor and has a light side. Dan Didio's doesn't.

[The Crime Dentist]

He was the only one to solve the problem...the only one to put all the pieces together. It's not "saving the day" in the literal sense but he was clearly the one hero in the DCU who shined the brightest in the story. A "joke" would have fumbled around until Batman showed up to solve the mystery.

As opposed to being mocked, shunned, dying and moldering away until Batman solves the mystery? DC just waxed one of their best characters, one with a 40 year history and a cult following, when the story would have worked just as well with any random no-namer from JLA history slotted in.

Heck, I'd rather they just killed Hal Jordan again. At least Ted Kord had a unique personality, as opposed to being just another heroic guy.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Can someone get a list of all DC issues so far that tie into the new "crisis" storyline? I don't mean just the direct ones, like IC and Countdown, but ones with lingering plot points like the last couple Batman issues with the 100 pounds of Kryptonite, or the Luthor appearances in Teen Titans. I wouldn't mind having a good, solid list of everything that contains a part of the story.

[Phoney Bone]

Aybody notice the similarities between Countdown and the JL Unlimited "animated" universe? Anybody notice the animated Watchtower satelitte in Flash a few months ago? Anybody notice how Beetle was worried about how "dark" things had gotten (which, one would assume, the upcoming event will rectify that)?

My speculation, Infinite Crisis will change the tone (though, not actual continuity) of the DCU from its current stste to that of the animated universe.

[AlanScott606]

The thing is, as various people have pointed out, the actions of all the other characters with respect to Beetle ring false. So his "heroic" death is built on a horribly shaky foundation.

It's hard to take the big moment of redemption and validation seriously when, before this issue, there was nothing that really needed redeeming or validating.

My feelings exactly. I was comfortable with Beetles role in the DCU. I didn't need him to die needlessly to start thing he was a true hero.

DC just used his death as a way to make the Big Three look that much better in the end.

[Phoney Bone]

The thing is, as various people have pointed out, the actions of all the other characters with respect to Beetle ring false. So his "heroic" death is built on a horribly shaky foundation.

It's hard to take the big moment of redemption and validation seriously when, before this issue, there was nothing that really needed redeeming or validating.

the way I read it, both he and Booster were already "validated" right after the the Madmen incident.

[TCJohnson]

My speculation, Infinite Crisis will change the tone (though, not actual continuity) of the DCU from its current stste to that of the animated universe.

By getting rid of all the fun characters?

In the most recent issue of wizard Johns said that a lot more heroes are going to be killed off.

[AlanScott606]

As opposed to being mocked, shunned, dying and moldering away until Batman solves the mystery? DC just waxed one of their best characters, one with a 40 year history and a cult following, when the story would have worked just as well with any random no-namer from JLA history slotted in.

Heck, I'd rather they just killed Hal Jordan again. At least Ted Kord had a unique personality, as opposed to being just another heroic guy.

Maybe Ted will be the new Spectre....

[Astonishing X-Fan]

"DC just waxed one of their best characters, one with a 40 year history and a cult following, when the story would have worked just as well with any random no-namer from JLA history slotted in."

Beetle and Booster weren't picked at random. These are two characters who outside their cult following have always been seen as jokes, nobodies, not important. They are the "losers" of the JLA, and that's why they fit the context of the story. It would NOT have been the same if, say, Vixen had been in Beetle's place. It would not have had as much meaning and it would not have made the same kind of impact.

[josh straightedge]

Well there goes a favorite DC character of mine. With Ted and Sue dead, there goes hope of more Giffen-related JLA stories. Would not doubt if Booster Gold is dead by the end of the year.

[TCJohnson]

Blue Beetle always seen as a joke? I take it you never read his series, or the Charlton series.

[TCJohnson]

Well there goes a favorite DC character of mine. With Ted and Sue dead, there goes hope of more Giffen-related JLA stories. Would not doubt if Booster Gold is dead by the end of the year.

And Fire will be on crack and Rocket Red retconned into a child molester.

[AlanScott606]

And Fire will be on crack and Rocket Red retconned into a child molester.

Not to mention the someone will probably sneak into Boosters hospital room and smother him with his freakin pillow!

[blast_front]

So I assume the recurring plot thread from the Giffen JL where Max Lord was actively trying to recruit the "Big Guns" has been retconned out?

Pathetic.

[josh straightedge]

Well, if G'nort dies, I probably won't get too bummed...

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Not "always" but certainly for quite a long time now, Beetle and Booster have both been dismissed as "jokes" by the general reading public.

[Expletive Deleted]

These are two characters who outside their cult following have always been seen as jokes, nobodies, not important.Had you ever read any of their appearances prior to COUNTDOWN?

I don't mean to imply that your opinion is in any way incorrect if you haven't, but I'm curious about where you're coming from with this.

[The Crime Dentist]

Yeah, Beetle died. But he went out with a BANG. He went out as a STAR. I'd rather have him die a meaningful death in a great story than have him spend the rest of DC continuity hanging around in the background wasting away.

For one thing, he's already a star in Giffen's Justice League, which has sold really well. For another, how was his death meaningful? All he did was break into a castle and get his head blown off. He didn't accomplish anything! It wasn't even shown that he managed to get the information out to anyone else.

[blast_front]

For another, how was his death meaningful?

He provided some cheap pathos in place of thoughtful writing in a massively over-hyped book.

[Paul Newell]

You know we dont all ways have to merge everything.

But if must be merge it merge..just thing get lost in the shuffle when something gets to 80 pages (which it will) you know?

Yes we do. Especially when the conversation gets duplicated for no good reason. :rolleyes:

[TCJohnson]

I know what's up with the 1.99 price?

Well, (Just had this conversation on another board) DC is loosing money on Countdown. There is no way they can publish a book for $1 these days and not loose money. They probably raised the price so they won't loose more money than budgeted for.

[jetter_cheeze]

Anyone else think that Blue Beetle might have been on that list that DC provided the IC writer?

Anyone else think that DC might be paving the way for some serious comic book storytelling that kills people now but brings them back in 15 years?

Anyone else think that we outta stop crying about dead heroes and look forward to better storytelling?

[blast_front]

Anyone else think that we outta stop crying about dead heroes and look forward to better storytelling?

Considering that I've been looking for excuses to keep reading new comics, no.

[TCJohnson]

Anyone else think that DC might be paving the way for some serious comic book storytelling that kills people now but brings them back in 15 years?



Yes, absolutely...except the bringing back in 15 years part. But I don't consider that better story telling.

[Sharcque]

I just read this whole thread, and was it just me, or were a lot of the same posts put in there twice but on seperate pages? Right where someone says "do we always have to merge everything?". I swear, after that, it was old posts from previous pages.

courtesy of the Scarab Beetle he possesses

I know nothing of what the Scarab Beetle is about. Can someone please explain?

My feelings about Countdown? Never have I seen more heroes written out of character. Oracle & Jonn would never blow him off!!! Also, woud BB really just openly park his Beetle car in public, and walk right up to Babs in front of allkinds of people knowing that she likes to publicly distance herself from heroes? And sure, Batman would be a jerk, but then he'd start doing his own Detective work. Don't get me started on Superman......

The Didio DC-verse is really getting to me now. Stories like this make me happy Joe Q is at Marvel (Did I just say that?).

[AlanScott606]

Yes, absolutely...except the bringing back in 15 years part. But I don't consider that better story telling.

Neither do I. It isn't the death or the bringing back of a character that makes a good story. It's the reasoning around it.

Can't
DC do an event where no one dies?

[TCJohnson]

I know nothing of what the Scarab Beetle is about. Can someone please explain?

The first Blue Beetle was named Dan Garrett who first appeared in the 1940s. He got his powers from a blue scarab jewel he found in a pyramid.

The second Blue Beetle was Ted Kord, created by Steve Dikto. Ted Kord was the nephew of one of Blue Beetle's enemies. Ted tried to help Dan Garrett, but Dan Garrett was killed by Ted's uncle. Dan made Ted promise to take the scarab and carry on the Blue Beetle name. Ted agreed, but before he could get the scarab there was a cave in, burying both Dan's body and the scarab.

No idea how he found it afterwards.

[blast_front]

The Scarab part of the Blue Beetle's origin wasn't added until the mid-60's. The Golden Age Blue Beetle was a two-fisted crime fighter a la Batman or Spirit.

[Forsaken_One]

I just read this whole thread, and was it just me, or were a lot of the same posts put in there twice but on seperate pages? Right where someone says "do we always have to merge everything?". I swear, after that, it was old posts from previous pages.
That's because it is. My "I think this thread should be in the Countdown thread" comment was apparently correct according to mods, because they merged the two threads.

[Sharcque]

The Scarab part of the Blue Beetle's origin wasn't added until the mid-60's. The Golden Age Blue Beetle was a two-fisted crime fighter a la Batman or Spirit.
OK -- but what is it? What can it do? You know --- what's so special about it? Why do people think it could resurrect Ted? (and his name was never Theodore, was it? I think someone called him Theodore in the book. I thought it was Edward.)

[Sharcque]

That's because it is. My "I think this thread should be in the Countdown thread" comment was apparently correct according to mods, because they merged the two threads.
So there were dupe threads with the same exact posts? ok..... :confused:

[perfect_Cell]

Well i finally read it. Im disapointed, saddend, outraged and i feel pretty much sad. The DC Comics i knew and loved died right alongside it. It feels like a stranger, much more dangerous DC Universe.

[Mia]

Can someone please explain the root of the tension between Green Arrow and Hawkman, that was refered to in this book? Thanks.

[blast_front]

OK -- but what is it? What can it do? You know --- what's so special about it?

It was a pretty generic comic book Item of Power TM. A magic scarab that transformed an ordinary archeologist into a generic (flight, strength, eye-beams) superhero when he uttered the Magic Words TM, "Kaji Dah!" (Or something like that, it's been a while.)

Crisis on Infinite Earths confused the situation over the Scarab's role a bit when it was shown protecting the previously non-powered Ted Kord from shadow demons. The subsequent Blue Beetle monthly ignored that gaffe, and later had the Scarab and Dan Garret make a brief comeback. The Scarab was revealed to be a malevolent alien parasite that warped Garret's mind and it was destroyed, killing Garret for a second time in the process.

At this point in time, though, I'm sure it can do whatever the writer/editor handing it's next appearance wants it to do. Because that's how things work in this crazy mixed-up comic book world.

[Expletive Deleted]

Can someone please explain the root of the tension between Green Arrow and Hawkman, that was refered to in this book? Thanks.It's a mindwipe reference. IDENTITY CRISIS retconned that in as the source of their feud.

[blast_front]

Can someone please explain the root of the tension between Green Arrow and Hawkman, that was refered to in this book? Thanks.

The Green Arrow/Hawkman feud is a bit like the Logan/Jean Grey attraction, in that they were fairly low key story elements when introduced, but have become much bigger in the retelling.

Green Arrow has been the grouchy liberal of the JLA since the early 70's. Hawkman (at the time) was a tough alien cop, retconned into a old-fashioned Golden Age holdover (in current continuity). Sure, they butted heads in the old JLA comics, but the feud was really fleshed out and backfilled within the past decade or so.

[Ned Leeds]

I can not wait to hit the shop after work today. Between this and and the big reveal in Batman, I'm as giddy as a school girl.

[Paul Newell]

So there were dupe threads with the same exact posts? ok..... :confused:

All because someone thought that what they were discussing shouldn't be lost amongst all the other talk.

Of course what they were discussing was the same as all the other talk......

[Sharcque]

All because someone thought that what they were discussing shouldn't be lost amongst all the other talk.

Of course what they were discussing was the same as all the other talk......
LMAO!!!!! ok --- got it.

[Phoney Bone]

I can name one more possibly dead person---BLACK MASK---when the Society tracks down that kryptonite and he refuses to hand it over.

And Talia is going to put a serious hurting on Dr. Light and/or Dr. Psycho before all is said and done.

[Forsaken_One]

And Talia is going to put a serious hurting on Dr. Light and/or Dr. Psycho before all is said and done.
Not being hugely familiar with any of those characters... why's that?

[Phoney Bone]

Not being hugely familiar with any of those characters... why's that?


Dr. Light is now a rapist. Dr. Psycho is a mental rapist. Talia has always teetered on that line of heroine/villianess in the Batman books. I don't think her character could sit by for long in league with these two (or Luthor, for that matter). I'm thinking she is the "traitor" Gail Simone has mentioned to be in Villians Unlimited.

[Sk8maven]

In the most recent issue of wizard Johns said that a lot more heroes are going to be killed off.

Okay. That does it. It's time for me to SERIOUSLY consider dropping my last comic book (JSA) and walking away from comics again. This time forever.

I walked away over Crisis, and I stayed away for fifteen years. And DC has repeatedly made me extremely sorry I ever came back.

If the DCU has now become a dark, grim, gritty place where no one trusts anyone else and no one gives a damn about anyone else, where the "heroes" (so-called) will turn on one of their own and hang him out to dry because he's not "worthy" of their attention - it's not anything I want to read or give a damn about. :mad:

Maven

[Sharcque]

Dr. Light is now a rapist. Dr. Psycho is a mental rapist. Talia has always teetered on that line of heroine/villianess in the Batman books. I don't think her character could sit by for long in league with these two (or Luthor, for that matter). I'm thinking she is the "traitor" Gail Simone has mentioned to be in Villians Unlimited.
I was also thinking it would be her, but isn't she too obvious? I was thinking maybe Black Adam, or Deathstroke, or, maybe even Lex?

[Karl J. Barnes]

Dr. Light is now a rapist. Dr. Psycho is a mental rapist. Talia has always teetered on that line of heroine/villianess in the Batman books. I don't think her character could sit by for long in league with these two (or Luthor, for that matter). I'm thinking she is the "traitor" Gail Simone has mentioned to be in Villians Unlimited.

She's a good canidate for "traitor", but I liked to throw Black Adam's name into the hat. I think, he is an honorable man, in his own way. I can't really see him wanting to be part of this type of situitation for very long.

[perfect_Cell]

Okay. That does it. It's time for me to SERIOUSLY consider dropping my last comic book (JSA) and walking away from comics again. This time forever.

I walked away over Crisis, and I stayed away for fifteen years. And DC has repeatedly made me extremely sorry I ever came back.

If the DCU has now become a dark, grim, gritty place where no one trusts anyone else and no one gives a damn about anyone else, where the "heroes" (so-called) will turn on one of their own and hang him out to dry because he's not "worthy" of their attention - it's not anything I want to read or give a damn about. :mad:

Maven


DC just brought Kara Zor El back, just in time to have her die in the next Crisis Crossover! Fitting! :p

Really i agree with you, DC is becoming too Marvel for its own good, but hey they need Sales!

[Phoney Bone]

I was also thinking it would be her, but isn't she too obvious? I was thinking maybe Black Adam, or Deathstroke, or, maybe even Lex?

Oh, I'm sure Lex see's them as nothing more than a means to accomplish his own goals. talia may not be the actual "traitor," but, she is definitly NOT going to like working with Dr. Psycho in the "main six." Black Adam seems a bit obvious, too.

Calculator, maybe (especially if this venture starts to cut into his capital).

[Jared_Humpherys]

I must say, there was one thing I really liked about DC Countdown:

Irrefuteable proof that Kyle Rayner will survive Rebirth, and continue on as a Green Lantern(and based on the Rann/Thanagar War preview pic, as well as Hal's comments, Kyle will likely be the "space-patrolling" Lantern).

As for the rest...well, it was worth the dollar, I'll give it that.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Oh, I'm sure Lex see's them as nothing more than a means to accomplish his own goals. talia may not be the actual "traitor," but, she is definitly NOT going to like working with Dr. Psycho in the "main six." Black Adam seems a bit obvious, too.

Calculator, maybe (especially if this venture starts to cut into his capital).

You know, this makes me excited to see what Gail has in store for us!!

[TCJohnson]

If anybody is intrested:

http://www.petitiononline.com/md92057/petition.html

I am curious how much support BB can get.

[Forsaken_One]

If anybody is intrested:

http://www.petitiononline.com/md92057/petition.html

I am curious how much support BB can get.
Yeah, I'm sure DC is just quivering in fear over angry internet users. :rolleyes: DC is going to look at sales; if they go up then they'll continue down this path. If they go down they won't. If they remain the same they'll see what they can change to bring them up. I think a petition, especially an internet petition, will do jack.

[Phoney Bone]

If anybody is intrested:

http://www.petitiononline.com/md92057/petition.html

I am curious how much support BB can get.


This is a good idea. A Ted Kord Blue Beetle series on the heels of Infinite Crisis would sure sell a heck of a lot better than his last DC solo series. I'd buy it!

[Karl J. Barnes]

If anybody is intrested:

http://www.petitiononline.com/md92057/petition.html

I am curious how much support BB can get.

Well, I "signed" it. Not that it will matter too much to DC, if at all. Still I'd like to see the Scarab from the issue bring Blue Beetle back.

[TCJohnson]

Yeah, I'm sure DC is just quivering in fear over angry internet users. :rolleyes: DC is going to look at sales; if they go up then they'll continue down this path. If they go down they won't. If they remain the same they'll see what they can change to bring them up. I think a petition, especially an internet petition, will do jack.

Oh, I don't think it will do anything either. I am just more curious to see how much support Blue Beetle can get.

[pureclint]

I don't get why people make such a huge fuss about heroes dying, personally. I think the stories would be a lot less interesting if they ALWAYS came back alive. Now if a death is meaningless and just for cheap shock value I can understand. But this death was not like that. It had a lot of meaning. A lot of impact. And it's going to lead to something far greater.

I love these epic, universe-wide storylines. I liked IC, I loved Countdown...and I'm staying tuned to the DCU all year. Can't wait for Villians United, OMAC, and Infinite Crisis.

Dude we have been talking about this for days in the COuntdown spoiler thread some people just see it that way. I am with you even if it is a character I LOVE if he dies as part of a great story then its ok, as was the case here.

Now:

Man did they show why Booster is a Hero or what? I never really took him serious at all untill this issue and I loved BB previously but way to go out on top.

BB did save the day looks like he erased Lord's files on the Heroes and I would wager his death with spark a lot of Hero interest.

The JL never took him or Booster serious when they were on the team so I can buy how they treat them here, but BB's Death (rememebr he did contact Oracle before going out) and previous bad assness here made him a Star.

DC is rocking it right now I can't wait for more from them bring on the Limited Series (man is Black Adam eerie, hwo would you like him to show up at your house and say join my team now!)

My only Dissapointment, I LOVE super hero bios and files. Sucks that Marvel's was blocked and we did not get to see more or what the ratings ment.

[Calamas]

Forgive me for going so far back to bring this up, but I was waiting to read the issue; and now that I have, I have just finished the tread pertaining. So:
My speculation, Infinite Crisis will change the tone (though, not actual continuity) of the DCU from its current state to that of the animated universe.
No, not the Animated Universe. The Marvel Universe. I think Kurt Busiak clearly defined the differences in the two universes in JLA/Avengers. It’s how I always saw them. And there’s no doubt the Marvel Universe is the more realistic. If superheroes existed in our world, a Super Power Registration Act would quickly follow. Marvel has it right. However, that’s not the universe I want to believe in. Nor is it the universe I want to read about.

Unfortunately, because Dan Didio walked through Penn Station in the post-9/11 world and saw soldiers with machine guns and did not feel reassured or safe, he decided that 70+ years of DC Comics were wrong and Marvel was right. Heroes should not be treated like heroes. Heroes were to be feared. And because he’s the man in charge, down that road we go.

Dark is not always a bad thing. Dark can work. It has its place. The darkness most of you have discussed--here and elsewhere--is not my issue. It’s the change in the fundamental working of the DCU. This was most obviously displayed in Manhunter #7 at the trial of the Shadow Thief for the death of Firestorm. We saw a news crew there interview three people, each with a different point of view, which was then summed up by a reporter saying that they each accurately represented an equal portion of the crowd. They were essentially: pro-hero, indifferent, and anti-hero. Basically, two-thirds of the people, more than 65%, had no interest in justice for Firestorm. That is not the DC Universe. That’s not even the Marvel Universe.

Recently Geoff Johns and Gail Simone tried to quell some of our fears, saying: yes things are going to get dark, but our heroes will come out the other side. I want to believe them. I just fear the picture may be bigger than them. Didio has put his best talent on this and the mini-series that follow. They are going to sell. No matter how many old-timers he alienates, this is going to sell. Didio may end up believing darkness and deconstruction is the way to go--and keep on going; he may forget to come out the other side, to give the heroes the personal and emotional victories that they deserve.

And so far it has worked. I liked Countdown. And because of the talent involved, I’ll buy the mini-series that follow. All of them. It may take a while to disaffect me. And I’m probably not alone. But without something positive, without “brightness,” without something other than misery for these characters after all they have sacrificed for the betterment of the DCU; they will lose me. After more than twenty-five years.

I really hope that doesn’t happen.

[foxfire]

OK how did this thread get over a 100 replies in a few hours? Shows how big the buzz for Countdown is...

[Forsaken_One]

OK how did this thread get over a 100 replies in a few hours? Shows how big the buzz for Countdown is...
100 relpies in 10 hours. Doesn't seem too fast to me.

[Static-Pulse]

In the most recent issue of wizard Johns said that a lot more heroes are going to be killed off.Were those his words exactly? I believe you, I'd just like a quote to use next time someone throws his respect fr characters in my face.

[Phoney Bone]

Man did they show why Booster is a Hero or what? I never really took him serious at all untill this issue and I loved BB previously but way to go out on top.

Especially when Blue described Gold's role in "Death of Superman." And Gold's anger at the possibility of losing his best friend after Sue, Skeets and Goldstar (did Giffen ever even mention Skeets and Booster's sister in his League run?).



BB did save the day looks like he erased Lord's files on the Heroes and I would wager his death with spark a lot of Hero interest. (extra emphasis mine)

He did this even after the super-hero community pretty much spurned him. J'onn was pretty consistent, in Giffen JLI mode. This is not exactly the first time Blue or Gold approached him with a problem and J'onn dismissed them. Happened just about every other issue in JLI. Unless the phrases "go away" and "I don't want to hear it" meant something entirely different in Martian back in the late 80's/early 90's.

And the very character of Maxwell Lord was originally patterned (in looks and manner) after Sam Neil's character in Omen:The Final Conflict. You know.......THE ANTI-CHRIST!!!



My only Dissapointment, I LOVE super hero bios and files. Sucks that Marvel's was blocked and we did not get to see more or what the ratings ment.

You see this uproar over Blue and Max Lord? Multiple that by 1000 if DC ever tried to take an official stance over who was more/less/equal powerful, Superman or Capt. Marvel. I'm suprised nobody has raised an uproar over Wonder Woman's stats. :p

[Captain Jim]

Thought it should be pointed out that the 2nd printing cover price is double that of the 1st printing. Granted, $2 for 80 pages is way cheaper than you'll ever find, but even with a new cover, shouldn't a 2nd printing NOT cost more than the original?

Not when you consider that the original printing was a loss-leader. No way DC made any money on it at that price.

[Captain Jim]

People focus too much on who dies in the story and not enough on the story itself.

It was epic, it was touching, it made me care about Beetle more than I ever have, it made me tremble in anticipation to see where everything's going to go...it was a GREAT story.

Yeah, Beetle died. But he went out with a BANG. He went out as a STAR. I'd rather have him die a meaningful death in a great story than have him spend the rest of DC continuity hanging around in the background wasting away.

I tend to agree. It sort of reminded me of Jack Drake's portrayal in Identity Crisis. People have said he had never been portrayed as well, and I think they're right. The same might be said of Blue Beetle here.

For the record, I've always liked the character, whom I've read clear back since the Charlton days. But I didn't think his DC solo book was very memorable, and one reason I was NOT a fan of the Giffen/DeMatteis JLI/JLA was that I thought it reduced both Beetle and Booster to the role of clowns. Just my opinion; please don't anybody tell me I just insulted them.

[Captain Jim]

Can someone get a list of all DC issues so far that tie into the new "crisis" storyline? I don't mean just the direct ones, like IC and Countdown, but ones with lingering plot points like the last couple Batman issues with the 100 pounds of Kryptonite, or the Luthor appearances in Teen Titans. I wouldn't mind having a good, solid list of everything that contains a part of the story.

I think that would be a great idea, but let's give it its own thread (and I'll "stick" it). If anybody else wants to start if off, but my guest. Otherwise I'll try to remember myself in a few days; right now I don't have the time to research it.

[Captain Jim]

The Scarab part of the Blue Beetle's origin wasn't added until the mid-60's. The Golden Age Blue Beetle was a two-fisted crime fighter a la Batman or Spirit.

I'm not even sure if the early/mid '60's BB is the same character as the 1940's BB. Does anybody know for sure?

[Forsaken_One]

I have one question: So Hawkwoman's still around as a thanagarian police member or whatever? Then... she wasn't with Katar Hol and wasn't his soulmate etc. etc. like the current Hawkgirl was? Was Hawkwoman after Katar Hol or something?

I'm confused, I figured Hawkgirl was the reincarnation of Hawkwoman. That's why in the Hawkman series she "remembers" how to run the Thanagarian ship. But here they seem to be two people. Thwa?

[Knightmare]

DC's been slowly creeping into my collection over the last year, year and a half. I never really cared for there characters much- but now there seeming more human to me. Green Arrow's a mianstay in my pick up list as are the Birds of Prey. And now it seems at the very least I have a connection to Blue Beetle. Which go figure they'd kill him by the time that happens. But I liked it like that. He was very real in the way he saw himself and there were even hints along the way that he wasn't gogin to make it past this issue. And he didn't go out in some big blaze of heroic glory that everyone in the DC universe will know about- he just decided to die with pride. R.I.P. Blue Beetle

Oh and $1 for 80 pages- I'm not really sure if it's gogint o pull me into the spin-off mini's, but as a single issue your eally cn't beat it, especially considering the talent invloved. Sadly though- this is a great issue for non-comicbook readers to catch, but they won't because as far as I know, your only getting them at comic book stores, and maybe a few book stores.

[Captain Jim]

I have one question: So Hawkwoman's still around as a thanagarian police member or whatever? Then... she wasn't with Katar Hol and wasn't his soulmate etc. etc. like the current Hawkgirl was? Was Hawkwoman after Katar Hol or something?

I'm confused, I figured Hawkgirl was the reincarnation of Hawkwoman. That's why in the Hawkman series she "remembers" how to run the Thanagarian ship. But here they seem to be two people. Thwa?

Katar Hol and his wife were not reincarnations of Carter Hall and his wife; they were separate characters (Thangarians). Katar Hol was eventually "absorbed" into Carter at some point (I'm a little fuzzy here), but the same was not true of Hawkwoman and the current Hawkgirl. Hence, the former is still around and actually guest-starred in the current Hawkman title sometime back.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Well after reading the massive DC Countdown for a buck I am completely shocked and suprised. I guess I can go ahead and drop the spoilers.



The Good: Ted Kord was never written so better. So many writers tackled him and gave us his feelings of how he felt like a 2nd stringer on a Main Team. He was the Blue Beetle II and he tried.

Booster Gold and Beetle share some funny moments as a friends. And we get the heart breaking final scene as Ted tell the nurse to say good-bye to his friend. And that he was his best friend. Sad... :(


Ted gets some final moments In and erases the O.M.A.C groups hard drives saving the heroes for now. He then tells Maxwell Lord to go straight to hell before he gets killed.

Moments earlier Max tries to recruit him Into joining. But Ted's a hero damn It and even dying he says It. He hopes a Blue Beetle III ermerges.


The Bad: Jesus...did we really need to see Ted Kord bite the dust ? The charactor just needed a good writer and team to make him Important. Proof Is Giffen In JLA: Classified and the Formally Known As the Justice League stuff we have seen.

Its like DC took all the redeeming fun qualities of Maxwell Lord and decided to play him up as a Villain now. Not that I don't mind. But Lord worked best as a zany boss who had to handle a wacky team.

No wonder Giffen has not been so happy with DC. They took 2 charactors he really made good and turned them Into evil and hapless charactors.

I like the Idea behind DC Countdown . But DC continues to keep trying to plant conspiracy theroies behind everything from thier 80's run. That Lord made the JLA Into a bad team on purpose ..ect ect...

What made Identity Crisis such a great read was the mystery along the way. The build up and shocking conspiracy behind things. Doing It again.....and again....and again Is driving a nail Into a box. Its not original at all.


My thinking It was middle of the road. Kord deserved a better fate than what DC did. Guess where gonna see a new female Blue Beetle In a few months.

[JeffreyWKramer]

She's a good canidate for "traitor", but I liked to throw Black Adam's name into the hat. I think, he is an honorable man, in his own way. I can't really see him wanting to be part of this type of situitation for very long.


I have a hard time buying Black Adam being in the same room with the likes of Dr. Light or Dr. Psycho without simply reaching out and squashing them like bugs.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I don't have much to say at this point, other than that to note that this book just continues the trend of presenting the core DCU characters as a bunch of hypocrites and dirtbags.

Even if one wants to completely ignore most of the character's history and say he deteriorated into a joke, a) Blue Beetle was a member of the Justice League for years, and b) he has fought alongside the League's best, and nearly died several times, including when the League faced Doomsday. Yet here virtually everyone treats him with less dignity than they would Bumblebee or the Wonder Twins.

Sure, Beetle is shown to be real cool this issue. Before he's shot. That's sort of like a serial child murderer giving the victim an ice cream cone and a nice toy before raping the kid to death - the bit of nice treatment really doesn't make up for the overall result.

The endless retcons and the final insult of ZERO HOUR made me turn my back on the Legion forevermore, and at this point, I'm seriously considering doing the same with all DC comics.

[Phoney Bone]

I have a hard time buying Black Adam being in the same room with the likes of Dr. Light or Dr. Psycho without simply reaching out and squashing them like bugs.


I'm guessing that Adam sees the whole Light situation as an injustice done to the Doc and other villians. The Sue Dibney rape probablly isn't common knowledge among the villian community. I doubt Adam is familiar with Psycho at all. How Gail is going to pull this off with the "noble" villians Adam, Deathstroke and Talia playing off the characters of Luthor, Psycho and Calculator is going to be a very interesting read... I can't WAIT!!

[Forsaken_One]

I have a hard time buying Black Adam being in the same room with the likes of Dr. Light or Dr. Psycho without simply reaching out and squashing them like bugs.
The way I see it is Black Adam, like Luthor and Talia and every other truly effective villian/anti-hero, is pragmatic. If working with scum will fufil one of their goals then they'll tolerate said scum until they don't need them any more.Black Adam is interested in recreating society in such a way that people are safe; so yes, he works with Dr. Light and Dr. Psycho (neither of whom have a doctorate I'd guess ;)) but he'd also work with Superman if he thought Superman'd help him achieve his goal. The means isn't important, the end is.

And, as I said, that's the way I see most of these people. Luthor isn't doing this out of the kindness of his heart or because he likes these people; Talia gutted Lexcorp and sold it to Wayne for God's sake! He has a goal and these are those he must use to gain it. Talia is equally pragmatic, as is Deathstroke.

By the by, who's that behind luthor on the screen in the big two-page shot?

[Phoney Bone]

a) Blue Beetle was a member of the Justice League for years, and b) he has fought alongside the League's best, and nearly died several times,


"Shut up, Beetle!" being yelled at him most of the time in the process.

[Ryno]

By the by, who's that behind luthor on the screen in the big two-page shot?

The Calculator.

[Sk8maven]

The endless retcons and the final insult of ZERO HOUR made me turn my back on the Legion forevermore, and at this point, I'm seriously considering doing the same with all DC comics.

I'll see that quote and raise you ALL comics - because I don't think you'll find any more joy at Marvel, and the indies are "here today, gone tomorrow".

Maven

[SUPERECWFAN1]

"Shut up, Beetle!" being yelled at him most of the time in the process.


The get rich quick schemes sold the Booster/Beetle charactors. Thats gone . Now we have angry bitter Ralph Dinby and now angry bitter Booster Gold. They could join a club of some kind.


Ralph Dinby: I lost my wife!! Dr. Light has to f-ckin die DIE!!!!

Booster: I lost my best friend ! Max Lord your gonna die DIE!!!

Ralph Dinby: Hey you didn't lose someone you slept next to each night. My wife was pregnet !

Booster: Well......we were close ! We owned an Island and Ted and me loved each other In a non homo-sexual way.

[AlanScott606]

I'll see that quote and raise you ALL comics - because I don't think you'll find any more joy at Marvel, and the indies are "here today, gone tomorrow".

Maven

When it was first rumored to be Blue Beetle who dies I had said I would give up on most DC comics. But I have thought more about it and I have decided to give DC until the end of the Infinite Crisis series to change my mind before I make my final desicion on this.

I want to think that some how some way Ted will be back, as either the Blue Beetle (what I really want) or as the new Spectre.

No matter what happens this looks to be a very intersting year at DC. I'm just not sure if I will be here when its all said and done.

[JeffreyWKramer]

"Shut up, Beetle!" being yelled at him most of the time in the process.


Given this portrayal of his fellow "heroes," it's surprising they didn't just leave him to die on the battleground after the Doomsday fight.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Given this portrayal of his fellow "heroes," it's surprising they didn't just leave him to die on the battleground after the Doomsday fight.


He most likely had the key to the Martian Manhunters supply of Oreo cookies and had the keys to the bathroom. Someone has to keep that place safe from what Superman does. The never ending battle only goes so far.

[Sk8maven]

No matter what happens this looks to be a very intersting year at DC. I'm just not sure if I will be here when its all said and done.

I'm becoming increasingly sure that I *WON'T*.

Maven

[Forsaken_One]

The Calculator.
Ah, thank you.

I'll see that quote and raise you ALL comics - because I don't think you'll find any more joy at Marvel, and the indies are "here today, gone tomorrow".

Okay, I get the Marvel comment but what's the independent comment mean? Dark Horse's Conan is going to continue printing and it's fantastic. Invincible, from Image, is doing quite well and is a great comic as is Noble Causes, also from Image. Or Rex Mundi, a fantastic and beatuifully drawn comic that doesn't have an end within sight of the next year or so. You've still got Vertigo, which while under Time-Warner umbrella is still pretty much independent in terms of content and which has tons of great comics out there, too many to quickly name. And Wildstorm's Ex Machina, a wonderful comic set in it's own world and which is going to be around until issue 50. Or, hell, Sleeper's a good comic set within the Wildstorm universe. And frankly Lions, Tigers, and Bears is one of the best comics out there, under any publisher. Certainly the best all-ages book.

Maybe they're "here today, gone tomorrow" if you rely upon Wizard to tell you what to read, but there are great comics that aren't DC and Marvel that aren't going anywhere soon. And frankly with the track record of DC and Marvel when it comes to recent new series (Rogue, Alpha Flight, Bloodhound, Fallen Angel, Hard Time, Mystique, etc) I'm not convinced the independents aren't better at keeping series going.

[Avi Green]

I think it's possible to say that Rucka, Winick, and especially Johns, may have produced their first real failure, from an artistic perspective at least. I certainly won't be buying it, and find it almost hilarious how DC's taken up this trend lately of saying that this or that book sold out on specific issues, when it's apparent that they planned it all along. In other words, if it's the introduction of the new Zoom in the Flash, then that's the plan, I think. Say it sold out based on the Rogue alone.

If anything, Countdown shows as to why now, fans who care about the character of their comics are going to have to start taking the wise path by avoiding books like Countdown, and all of its spinoffs. And Dan DiDio is doing little more than to make himself as disliked as Bill Jemas, which is a shame. Here, they were doing well in the past two years, and it's possible that they could've surpassed Marvel in sales units and profits by just keeping on with the good steps they were taking. Instead, they've knocked themselves back by a decade or so, and done little more than to alienate fans even more.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I think it's possible to say that Rucka, Winick, and especially Johns, may have produced their first real failure, from an artistic perspective at least. I certainly won't be buying it, and find it almost hilarious how DC's taken up this trend lately of saying that this or that book sold out on specific issues, when it's apparent that they planned it all along. In other words, if it's the introduction of the new Zoom in the Flash, then that's the plan, I think. Say it sold out based on the Rogue alone.

If anything, Countdown shows as to why now, fans who care about the character of their comics are going to have to start taking the wise path by avoiding books like Countdown, and all of its spinoffs. And Dan DiDio is doing little more than to make himself as disliked as Bill Jemas, which is a shame. Here, they were doing well in the past two years, and it's possible that they could've surpassed Marvel in sales units and profits by just keeping on with the good steps they were taking. Instead, they've knocked themselves back by a decade or so, and done little more than to alienate fans even more.


I don't think Dido has really done anything bad. This seemed to be his worst mistake because he took what worked In Identity Crisis and kept trying to keep that mojo going.

But the whole DC line looks f'n Impressive. Green Lantern , Batman ( Winick has shocked me ) Wonder Woman , Flash , JLA and Titans. The Legion even kicks ass now. Its shocking at how he's made that line such a good read each month.

I have way more DC titles on my pull list since 2004 than I have Marvel. He's hit a bump In the road. But I feel he has something that will shock us and that Blue Beetle as a hero Isn't done.

[Justin Davis]

I have a feeling I'm going to do a copy and pasting spree soon with this. Brad asked me what I thought of Countdown and this is it.

It's annoying.

It's incredibly well-written, the art is amazingly good (even Benes's stuff is good), the intros to the minis are handled nicely, but I can't stand what was done to Blue Beetle.

I don't mind that Lord is the big bad guy here. Has he been cast in the villain role before? Sure. This, to me, is the case of using continuity correctly. Those who have never seen him before understand him, those who know of Maxwell may understand him better. This works for me.

However, there are the things that annoy me and don't work about the book. Things like the dismissal of Beetle by other heroes so readily and his death when there are other, more dramatic ways to end the book that don't involve blowing his brains out. One such way that I read someone else post about elsewhere involves him being dragged out while Lord says, "We'll see if we can change your mind" in reference to OMAC. God, something like that would've been good. Also, the fact that this spins out of Identity Crisis is just odd considering how characters treat Beetle. A large number of heroes spend all their time trying to find the murderer of Sue Dibny, but one or two won't help Beetle when he thinks someone is specifically targetting him to kill him? Sorry, that just doesn't add up.

What annoys me the most is that it's so damn good in some places and then messes things up with the above points. Sure, I'll check out some of the minis, but I'm not nearly as enthused as I was before. Days of Vengeance and Rann/Thanagar seem to be free of just about everything that annoyed me in this issue so they should be safe.

Still, it was an 80-page for a buck. No way I could refuse that.

[Brian R]

I think it's possible to say that Rucka, Winick, and especially Johns, may have produced their first real failure, from an artistic perspective at least. I certainly won't be buying it, and find it almost hilarious how DC's taken up this trend lately of saying that this or that book sold out on specific issues, when it's apparent that they planned it all along. In other words, if it's the introduction of the new Zoom in the Flash, then that's the plan, I think. Say it sold out based on the Rogue alone.

If anything, Countdown shows as to why now, fans who care about the character of their comics are going to have to start taking the wise path by avoiding books like Countdown, and all of its spinoffs. And Dan DiDio is doing little more than to make himself as disliked as Bill Jemas, which is a shame. Here, they were doing well in the past two years, and it's possible that they could've surpassed Marvel in sales units and profits by just keeping on with the good steps they were taking. Instead, they've knocked themselves back by a decade or so, and done little more than to alienate fans even more.


How exactly? By killing off a second-stringer that most comic book fans barely recognize? How is that going to cause DC to lose sales, he wasnt even in any ongoing books at all.

Just because you are pissed off at them, dont start speaking for everyone else, because its obvious by the sales numbers that many people like whats happening with DC right now, because their sales are higher than they have been in years.

I wasnt planning to get the minis before, because thats just too much cash for me in a short period of time, to be spent on books which are not even on my regular list, but I have to admit that Countdown got me interested in them, to the point where I am considering picking them up. Most likely, I will just read reviews online and possibly read them in-store if my shop owner lets me.

I dont like the fact that they killed Beetle, I found him interesting as a character, but I do have a strange feeling that he will be back, not sure how, but its my gut feeling.

[Captain Jim]

If there's one thing that's clear, it's that opinions are divided on this book. Some love it, some hate it. But does that really surprise anyone? ;)

[Brian R]

If there's one thing that's clear, it's that opinions are divided on this book. Some love it, some hate it. But does that really surprise anyone? ;)

No, not at all. However, I find it funny that people are freaking out so much over how "grim and gritty" DC is getting, when we have had creators on this board say that things wont stay that way. Im not saying things will return to exactly the way they were, but I guarantee that in a year or two, when all this stuff has been resolved and the heroes are in a more "friendly" state, people will then say "HA! Didio caved and gave us back our heroes because of how much bitching we did online! Wheeee!".

[TCJohnson]

Were those his words exactly? I believe you, I'd just like a quote to use next time someone throws his respect fr characters in my face.

We're not exactly out for blood but, at the same time, it's a 'Crisis,' Johns laughs. "It's an infinite crisis. So yes, expect heroes and villains to fall. [In the meetings], we were just kind of talking about what would really challenge the DCU's heroes and bring them to the next level in terms of emotional complexity and just the sheer kickass nature of who they are. Ther's a reason everything's happening the way it is now. It's not arbritrary. Everything's been planned really carefully."

"Crisis" is a great word," says Rucka. "Buth this is the big thing: 'Crisis' doesn't mean we're wiping out continuity. 'Crisis' does not mean continuity's about to suffer. We like our continuity. We have a good continuity, unlike some other people. So, when we say 'Crisis,' it is literally a crisis. Bad sh-- is going to come down."

10characters

[TCJohnson]

No, not at all. However, I find it funny that people are freaking out so much over how "grim and gritty" DC is getting, when we have had creators on this board say that things wont stay that way.

And quite frankly, I don't believe them anymore. They are killing off the lighter characters, or filling them full of angst (Booster Gold, Elongated Man)....I think they are full of it when they say it won't stay that way.

[Brian R]

Also wanted to add that, although there are a few negative reviews on this thread, I think more than half of posters seemed to like it, or at least not hate it. After I read it, I was afraid I was gonna see a repeat of the IDC thread, where people apparently lost their sanity due to Sue's death, yet surprisingly Beetle hasnt garnered nearly as much outrage. Yes, I fully understand the differences in the circumstances of their respective deaths, I just thought that an actual superhero would generate more pissed-off fans.

That being said, I really think Ted Kord will be back, this is comics after all.

[Siddon]

Y'know I'm convinced that DC can not write a story that will please Online Fans. I loved it, and I will be picking up 2 of the mini's (the villian and OPEC).

[Brian R]

And quite frankly, I don't believe them anymore. They are killing off the lighter characters, or filling them full of angst (Booster Gold, Elongated Man)....I think they are full of it when they say it won't stay that way.

And I choose to believe actual professionals who I have no reason to distrust. I dont recall being lied to by Geoff Johns or Gail Simone at any point, so I have no reason not to believe what they say.

[TCJohnson]

let's stop and take a moment for a final goodby to Ted Kord, Blue Beetle, Adventurer and Justice Leaguer. He is a favorite of many, and I know he will be missed. And while Ted's story has reached this tragic conclusion, the effects of his death will be felt for months to come and his memory will have a lasting effect on our heroes.

Doesn't sound like he is coming back to me. They might have a new person being the beetle, a grim and gritty one with more "emotional complexity" but it won't be Ted.

[Brian R]

Y'know I'm convinced that DC can not write a story that will please Online Fans. I loved it, and I will be picking up 2 of the mini's (the villian and OPEC).

When has anything, ever, pleased everyone? ESPECIALLY in comics? People never agree about movies, music, everything and anything, why should it be any different with comics?

The only real difference is, when somebody says they hated a movie you loved, you generally dont call them names and start a fight over it. ;)

[Brian R]

Doesn't sound like he is coming back to me. They might have a new person being the beetle, a grim and gritty one with more "emotional complexity" but it won't be Ted.

How many heroes have actually stayed dead in the history of comics?

[Forsaken_One]

How many heroes have actually stayed dead in the history of comics?
The ones that are no longer published.

[TCJohnson]

How many heroes have actually stayed dead in the history of comics?

Quite a few of them actually, although others have had their mantle taken up by another.

[JeffreyWKramer]

After I read it, I was afraid I was gonna see a repeat of the IDC thread, where people apparently lost their sanity due to Sue's death, yet surprisingly Beetle hasnt garnered nearly as much outrage. Yes, I fully understand the differences in the circumstances of their respective deaths, I just thought that an actual superhero would generate more pissed-off fans.


It's called weariness. At this point, as this crap continues, it's hard to really care anymore.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I loved it, and I will be picking up 2 of the mini's (the villian and OPEC).

OPEC? LOL! They're villains, sure, but I don't think they have a comic miniseries coming out.

[Brian R]

Quite a few of them actually, although others have had their mantle taken up by another.

You know what I was getting at. Blue Beetle, while certainly second-string, is not unknown, and I am sure that some writer will want to bring him back at some point.

[Captain Jim]

I was afraid I was gonna see a repeat of the IDC thread, where people apparently lost their sanity due to Sue's death...

And Paul and I thank you all very much for not doing that, seriously.

[Brian R]

OPEC? LOL! They're villains, sure, but I don't think they have a comic miniseries coming out.

LMAO. Just a great post.

[TCJohnson]

It's called weariness. At this point, as this crap continues, it's hard to really care anymore.

That is pretty much how I feel.

And with them screwing over my favorites, it's hard to care about the ones left behind.

[VietN]

I haven't read the book and have just flipped through most of the posts.

Basically Blue Beetle is being targeted, he asks for help, gets none, follows some leads, and gets killed.

Sounds like he died like a chump to me and gets dissed by his "pals"...

so to those who thought he died herorically or liked how he was portrayed PLEASE fill in the holes and tell me why you think that so I get can get some more insight?

As an outsider this story doesn't sound like much.

Identity Crisis seemed good at first but how can people like it even with that crap ending. All the "resolutions" seemed to come out of someone's um... rear end.

[AlanScott606]

It's called weariness. At this point, as this crap continues, it's hard to really care anymore.

See thats my point. I am afraid that Booster Gold won't make it out of this alive either. How many of my favorite characters should I watch die needless deaths before I say enough is enough.

[AlanScott606]

I haven't read the book and have just flipped through most of the posts.

Basically Blue Beetle is being targeted, he asks for help, gets none, follows some leads, and gets killed.

Sounds like he died like a chump to me and gets dissed by his "pals"...

so to those who thought he died herorically or liked how he was portrayed PLEASE fill in the holes and tell me why you think that so I get can get some more insight?

As an outsider this story doesn't sound like much.

Identity Crisis seemed good at first but how can people like it even with that crap ending. All the "resolutions" seemed to come out of someone's um... rear end.

I agree, If they were going to have Beetle to die, The very least they could have done was to have him make it out of the opening book and make an impact.

But at this point about the only impact I can see he made is it may have gotten Batman curious enough to start looking into things.

[Phoney Bone]

Superman had to inform those with the same weakness about a matter of 100 pounds of missing Kryptonite.

Batman knows he's been mindwiped by his fellow Leaguers.

Hal Jordan stuck around and gave Blue more support than the other heroes at the break-in.

Nightwing didn't have to, but, he called in some Titans to help.

Shazam has problems on the mystical plane involving no less than the Demon, Captain Marvel and a Spectre no longer bound to a human soul.

Martian Manhunter and the JLA seem to be distracted by an intergalactic war.

Wonder Woman helped Blue with his injuries (unless the JLA keeps a nurse handy in the Watchtower nobody's ever seen before).

THOSE SELFISH JERKS!!!

[Brian R]

Superman had to inform those with the same weakness about a matter of 100 pounds of missing Kryptonite.

Batman knows he's been mindwiped by his fellow Leaguers.

Hal Jordan stuck around and gave Blue more support than the other heroes at the break-in.

Nightwing didn't have to, but, he called in some Titans to help.

Shazam has problems on the mystical plane involving no less than the Demon, Captain Marvel and a Spectre no longer bound to a human soul.

Martian Manhunter and the JLA seem to be distracted by an intergalactic war.

Wonder Woman helped Blue with his injuries (unless the JLA keeps a nurse handy in the Watchtower nobody's ever seen before).

THOSE SELFISH JERKS!!!


I agree, but they did dismiss him rather easily, even for a second-stringer.

I guess for me I dont get what all the big fuss is about, we should all be pretty much immune to deaths at this point. While I would probably be more upset if I was a huge BB fan, its become too commonplace for me to get worked up over. Besides, I liked the story, and his death is part of that. I think that he comes off very well in this issue, because he discovers things that nobody else seems to notice, and is able to track down and confront the mastermind all by himself.

[synecdoche]

Caveat: I have no attachment to the Blue Beetle character at all.

I liked Countdown. I thought it was a good story. Yes, the JL were jerks but I think that is going to be crucial to what this infinite crisis will be: a re-evaluation of who stand where, where the lines will be drawn, and so on. The cracks in the JL were showing in Identity Crisis (which was unfortunately poorly executed) and this continues the thread.

On its own, I thought it was an interesting story-- a page turner even. The death of BB was tragic and impactful for me, because everyone was a jerk. I don't think people were out of character, at all, myself.

I don't think I'll get all the minis, but I will be getting the Batman one and probably the Spectre one.

[EZMOHR]

This is totally way off topic but I've got to say it because he has been ignored for too long....Where the hell is Aquaman? He is one of the big 7. Yet, throuh any crisis DC can shake a stick at, he has not made an appearance. I think (hope?) that our good friend Arthur is going to make an appearance relativly soon and whip these super-a holes into some shape.

There is kind of a throw away line in IC (I think) that basically has Ollie telling Wally that they were almost scared to tell Aquaman about the mind wipes. And, now that some things are finally coming out about Sub-Diego, I can totally see Checkmate and Max being part of that. And I don't think Max is going to be the main bad guy in this crisis....just another pawn to some one bigger...like everyone else.

[Phoney Bone]

Blind speculation (which makes it a perfect fit for a lot of things said on this thread) at its greatest!


http://comicsnexus.insidepulse.com/articles/35828

[Brian R]

This is totally way off topic but I've got to say it because he has been ignored for too long....Where the hell is Aquaman? He is one of the big 7. Yet, throuh any crisis DC can shake a stick at, he has not made an appearance. I think (hope?) that our good friend Arthur is going to make an appearance relativly soon and whip these super-a holes into some shape.

There is kind of a throw away line in IC (I think) that basically has Ollie telling Wally that they were almost scared to tell Aquaman about the mind wipes. And, now that some things are finally coming out about Sub-Diego, I can totally see Checkmate and Max being part of that. And I don't think Max is going to be the main bad guy in this crisis....just another pawn to some one bigger...like everyone else.

Yeah, thats too true about Arthur, the man gets NO respect. Ok, so he looked like a drunken hobo who fell into the ocean when he had that hook and the beard, but now hes back to a classic costume and is no longer an embarassment, give the man his due!

[Forsaken_One]

Yeah, thats too true about Arthur, the man gets NO respect. Ok, so he looked like a drunken hobo who fell into the ocean when he had that hook and the beard, but now hes back to a classic costume and is no longer an embarassment, give the man his due!
I can't believe you equated his classic costume with a lack of embarassment.

[EZMOHR]

So about the book...I enjoyed it. It finally made Max a total weasel. It is hopefully going to make Booster a more fleshed out character. It was definatly a fun read. I'm ready to give DC my cash and be dissapointed in the end!!!!!!!!! As long as it is not Jean who did it at the end.

[Brian R]

I can't believe you equated his classic costume with a lack of embarassment.

His current look, which is very similar to his classic one, is MILES ahead of his garbage grey/black/hook-hand look.

And I am sorry, but green pants and an orange shirt are no sillier than red speedos over blue pants with a friggin' cape. :p

Think about it, you see some geek walking down the street in an orange shirt... you barely notice. You see the same geek walking down the street with his underwear outside his pants and a cape, you give him a beatdown.

[EZMOHR]

His current look, which is very similar to his classic one, is MILES ahead of his garbage grey/black/hook-hand look.

And I am sorry, but green pants and an orange shirt are no sillier than red speedos over blue pants with a friggin' cape. :p

Think about it, you see some geek walking down the street in an orange shirt... you barely notice. You see the same geek walking down the street with his underwear outside his pants and a cape, you give him a beatdown.


Amen....The Classic Auqa-Duds rule. SO here's hoping Arthur gets into a throwdown with whomever is the baddie in this thing.

[Forsaken_One]

His current look, which is very similar to his classic one, is MILES ahead of his garbage grey/black/hook-hand look.

And I am sorry, but green pants and an orange shirt are no sillier than red speedos over blue pants with a friggin' cape. :p

Think about it, you see some geek walking down the street in an orange shirt... you barely notice. You see the same geek walking down the street with his underwear outside his pants and a cape, you give him a beatdown.What about green pants, orange shirt, fake scales on the orange shirt, and a giant "A" on the belt? I guess it looks good when he preens in front of the Aquacave's mirror. :rolleyes:

[Ian J.N.]

See thats my point. I am afraid that Booster Gold won't make it out of this alive either. How many of my favorite characters should I watch die needless deaths before I say enough is enough.
Actually, I got the impression that Booster is being set up for a revamp. Over the course of the issue, Beetle had his life progressively ripped away, whereas Booster redonned his costume and rekindled his fighting spirit, which would seem to indicate that he's being primed for action. Also, he has ties to the major villain, and BB's death could be used to transition him into a more serious hero. Plus, y'know, buddy cop movies... they don't BOTH die two days before retirement.

[Brian R]

What about green pants, orange shirt, fake scales on the orange shirt, and a giant "A" on the belt? I guess it looks good when he preens in front of the Aquacave's mirror. :rolleyes:

You really wanna go there? Blue spandex pants AND shirt, red speedos on top of his pants, knee-high red boots, a red cape, and a red&yellow crest. Sure, I love the look, but if a character was introduced today with that costume, he would get laughed at. The scales look cool, btw.

[Polar Bear]

Three overall impressions:

1) Given how much angered speculation there was that Blue Beetle would become a villain, I can't believe that not one post in twelve pages has expressed even the smallest twinge of gratefulness that D.C. didn't go this route. Well, I'm grateful, anyway. I'd have preferred his dying words to not be wishing eternal damnation on someone else, but you take what you can get these days. He died a hero.

2) Overall, I liked the comic, and I'll be trying all four minis.

3) Maxwell Lord has apparently acquired one new super-power: he can change the part in his hair from panel to panel. Just look at those last few pages, where the part moves as often as windshield wipers.

--PB

[Dennis K]

I really liked this book, it just goes to show how a second tier character can be the focal point of a great story when done correctly by talented creative teams. My only complaint was it seemed a little.. Identity Discish.

[TomGun13]

I enjoyed this story FAR more than ID Crisis. Short to the point and a fraction of the cost. I probably won't be buying any of the spin offs but overall it was a great read for a great price.

[Typo Lad]

Yeah, I'm sure DC is just quivering in fear over angry internet users. :rolleyes: DC is going to look at sales; if they go up then they'll continue down this path. If they go down they won't. If they remain the same they'll see what they can change to bring them up. I think a petition, especially an internet petition, will do jack.

Ever heard of H.E.A.T.?

[Typo Lad]

the "noble" villians Adam, Deathstroke and Talia playing off the characters of Luthor, Psycho and Calculator is going to be a very interesting read... I can't WAIT!!

Noble?