View Full Version : Supergirl:the Outsiders need her
Superboy Sr
03-28-2005, 02:23 PM
I am a big fan of the Outsiders but there is one thing that is keeping the team from being a successful book:Supergirl. Kara would give the Outsiders a powerful member that the group needs plus a little nostalgia (remember the Super Squad) for the fanboys and give some healthy competion to the New Avengers and Exiles. How could you go wrong with replacing Starfire with Supergirl?
Forsaken_One
03-28-2005, 02:57 PM
Yeeeess... the Outsiders, a book that involves frank talks of sexuality and moral ambiguity as well as topics like child slavery rings really needs a sixteen year old girl who's completely unfamiliar with Earth and human cultures.
Sharcque
03-28-2005, 04:57 PM
I'd rather see her in the Teen Titans. As F1 pointed out:a sixteen year old girl who's completely unfamiliar with Earth and human cultures. Her interaction with Bart would pay for the comic all by itself! :D
protege
03-28-2005, 05:16 PM
Yes, but wouldn't that make Superboy redundant?
Sharcque
03-28-2005, 05:25 PM
I hadn't thought of that. Maybe then SB could got to the Legion? :confused:
Expletive Deleted
03-28-2005, 05:36 PM
Yes, but wouldn't that make Superboy redundant?Why would it?
The Legion had Superboy and Supergirl coexist as team members for a while, and even threw in Mon-El for good measure.
Forsaken_One
03-28-2005, 08:55 PM
I'd rather have her gain a personality in her own solo series first. Obviously that is going to happen but right now it's a bit early for her to be in any team; she's nothing but a blank slate with Superman's powers.
And I think her costume needs a redesign.
Yeeeess... the Outsiders, a book that involves frank talks of sexuality and moral ambiguity as well as topics like child slavery rings really needs a sixteen year old girl who's completely unfamiliar with Earth and human cultures.
And that's different from when Starfire joined the Titans how?
Forsaken_One
03-28-2005, 11:46 PM
And that's different from when Starfire joined the Titans how?
While I'm not sure of her age I'm pretty sure Starfire was the same age as the rest of the members, not four to six years younger. They were also around eighteen by that point. And I'm pretty sure New Teen Titans had less overt sexuality than Outsiders currently does (focusing on what went on in the comic itself here, not what's said about it after the fact). Certianly they didn't have Speedy/Arsenal hooking up with every female guest star and a few regulars, nor did they have Cyborg and Raven (or whoever) involved in strange, nonhuman sex. And, again as far as I recall, the New Teen Titans dealt with supervillians, not with child slavery rings and other very adult issues. While there was a bit of moral ambiguity in characters like Terra and Deathstroke the villians they fought were still, for the most part, obviously evil (I mean, they fought the devil basically!). Not to mention there's also a big difference between "newly introduced character named Starfire" dealing with questionable situations (though she really didn't) and Supergirl dealing with questionable situations. Supergirl has a lot more baggage for the average reader than Starfire does even, if not especially, for the casual reader.
It was less overt, but they also fought drug dealers and slavers, and lest we forget,Trigon RAPED Raven's mother and that was made VERY clear.
Forsaken_One
03-29-2005, 12:12 AM
It was less overt, but they also fought drug dealers and slavers, and lest we forget,Trigon RAPED Raven's mother and that was made VERY clear.
Okay, well I'd say that child slavery is a lot more emotionally charged than adult slaver and makes for a darker book, especially with all the branding and implied pedophilia overtones. But even accepting that we still have:
-Four to six year age gap vs. no age gap
-Eighteen vs. Sixteen year old (big difference in America at least)
-Subtle sexuality in a generally monogamous manner vs. overt sexuality in rather promiscuous manners
-Clear lines drawn between "evil" individuals and "good" individuals vs. well, less clear lines
-Less ethical and moral questions vs. more ethical and moral ambiguity and questioning
-Historical baggage of newly created Starfire vs. historical baggage of newly re-introduced Kara Zor-el Supergirl
-Issues with the "S" symbol and dealing with morally ambigious situations
I'm not saying I agree with adding her,just that it's not that big a stretch. And as you said, she's a blank slate. She may well have a compatable personality develop in the solo book.
marshal99
03-29-2005, 01:33 AM
What supergirl needs to be is a coffin in the ground.
What supergirl needs to be is a coffin in the ground.
And that's constructive criticism... :rolleyes:
marshal99
03-29-2005, 02:06 AM
And that's constructive criticism... :rolleyes:
Not even a criticism , that's a statement. She should be in the ground.
Not even a criticism , that's a statement. She should be in the ground.
It is because it's based on your dislike of the character.
Forefinger
03-29-2005, 02:43 AM
I would go with Superboy leaving the Teen Titans and joining the Outsiders, and SG joining the TTs. He's been around the DCU for awhile and is pretty experienced. I guess that would kill the whole Superboy/Robin playing off of the Worlds Finest team though.
I would go with Superboy leaving the Teen Titans and joining the Outsiders, and SG joining the TTs. He's been around the DCU for awhile and is pretty experienced. I guess that would kill the whole Superboy/Robin playing off of the Worlds Finest team though.
He could do it with Nightwing...
And why not have Batgirl in a team?
Forsaken_One
03-29-2005, 09:10 AM
I'm not saying I agree with adding her,just that it's not that big a stretch. And as you said, she's a blank slate. She may well have a compatable personality develop in the solo book.
And I'd say it is a bit of a streach.
Still, she has the right outfit to go around having sex with anyone who stops by, doesn't she? God I hate that costume.
Master Darque
03-29-2005, 09:46 AM
Geez ....how naive do you really think she is ? I mean yeah , sure , she needs some time to adjust to Earth and our ways but look at all the role models she has to choose from ...Diana , Clark , Bruce .... I definitely think she should be put with some peers for awhile ...maybe join the Titans for a time then go hang with the Outsiders to get some education from Nightwing . This is a really exciting time to have a Supergirl from Krypton , I think .
Forsaken_One
03-29-2005, 10:59 AM
Geez ....how naive do you really think she is ?
I'm... not really expressing that she's naive and that's why she shouldn't join the Outsiders. I'm saying it's ethically questionable to allow a sixteen year old to join a group of sexually active, morally ambiguious, and extremely violent twenty-four year olds. A situation that is only exacerbated by the purity most people perceive the "S" shield to represent. Furthermore I feel it's a bad idea because she does not yet have a developed personality and I feel we should wait on screaming for her to join this team or that team until she gains one, either in her own series or in the Superman/Batman one shot she's getting soon.
Supergirl a Titan - please donīt. I like the teen titans and i donīt want her in. Superboy is a good member, he has wonder girl as a girlfirend, he has Robin as friend etc. I donīt want to see a second S there.
Supergirl a Titan - please donīt. I like the teen titans and i donīt want her in. Superboy is a good member, he has wonder girl as a girlfirend, he has Robin as friend etc. I donīt want to see a second S there.
Oddly, his look, not necessarily his personality, but the outfit says "Outsiders" to me.
And the Supergirl costume is difficult to get right, it has to be different from Clark, Conner and Power Girl's outfit, whilst still being clearly "S" affiliated.
protege
03-29-2005, 02:13 PM
He could do it with Nightwing...
And why not have Batgirl in a team?
I like the way Batgirl was drwan in TT-why not have her here?
I like the way Batgirl was drwan in TT-why not have her here?
She's likely too dark for them. The Outsiders or Birds are closer to her arena. In fact, the current Braniac plot in BoP would be interesting with Cass seeing her "mom" dealing with the scar.
Forsaken_One
03-29-2005, 03:18 PM
Batgirl's in a team already, though to say which is a bit of a spoiler.
And the Supergirl outfit may be hard, but I really don't think the waif-like near anorexic teenager needed a belly-revealing outfit with a skirt barely past the panty line. The outfit just seems really over-the-top to me.
Batgirl's in a team already, though to say which is a bit of a spoiler.
And the Supergirl outfit may be hard, but I really don't think the waif-like near anorexic teenager needed a belly-revealing outfit with a skirt barely past the panty line. The outfit just seems really over-the-top to me.
Then spoilerfy it and tell!
Superboy Sr
03-29-2005, 03:40 PM
For some reason,I don't think Kara is all that innocent. I just can't stand Starfire and if Kara joined the Outsiders it would be great for the book also, make it very competive with the New Avengers.
Forsaken_One
03-29-2005, 04:03 PM
Then spoilerfy it and tell!
Spoilers for... hell, even saying which series it is is a spoiler. Umm... spoilers for Justice League Elite. Now if you don't want any more of that series spoiled, don't read on.
Now the meaty spoilers: Do you remember Justice League Elite? The preemptive strike force, the "dark" JLA? Well since they're all ex-cons or other morally questionable people the JLA added the Flash to their ranks, though obviously not under his own name. Batman did the same except he didn't tell anyone; he took Batgirl and put her into the team as the scarred assassin who had killed hundreds of people by her sixteenth year, which is really remarkably close to her own real experience.
The thing is she's actually come to like these people in Justice League Elite. She's even come to like like one of them, Coldcast, though I suspect that'll be in the same vein as her crush on Superboy or that one terrorist metahuman; i.e. it won't last outside of the pages of JL:E. But it is a source of tension between her and Batman since she's come to know these people while Batman considers them dangerous and hasn't allowed himself to know them personally. Batgirl sees herself in these people in that she too has killed a person and is trying to repent for that, just as these people, from Coldcast to Major Disaster, are trying to do good despite the past. Batman, being Batman, is rather unforgiving and not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
bannermanonemillion
03-29-2005, 07:54 PM
Spoilers for... hell, even saying which series it is is a spoiler. Umm... spoilers for Justice League Elite. Now if you don't want any more of that series spoiled, don't read on.
Now the meaty spoilers: Do you remember Justice League Elite? The preemptive strike force, the "dark" JLA? Well since they're all ex-cons or other morally questionable people the JLA added the Flash to their ranks, though obviously not under his own name. Batman did the same except he didn't tell anyone; he took Batgirl and put her into the team as the scarred assassin who had killed hundreds of people by her sixteenth year, which is really remarkably close to her own real experience.
The thing is she's actually come to like these people in Justice League Elite. She's even come to like like one of them, Coldcast, though I suspect that'll be in the same vein as her crush on Superboy or that one terrorist metahuman; i.e. it won't last outside of the pages of JL:E. But it is a source of tension between her and Batman since she's come to know these people while Batman considers them dangerous and hasn't allowed himself to know them personally. Batgirl sees herself in these people in that she too has killed a person and is trying to repent for that, just as these people, from Coldcast to Major Disaster, are trying to do good despite the past. Batman, being Batman, is rather unforgiving and not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Dont forget....
spoiler I guess
Green Arrow is part of that team and you know how Bats feels about him, or SHOULD at least considering IC.
End of spoilers
bannermanonemillion
03-29-2005, 07:56 PM
I think we should clear up whatever confusion there may be about which Supergirl is which.
I don't know how the previous Supergirl ended up (I don't get it where I live) and the Cir-El Supergirl got a too-quick wrap-up. Just one issue where all the S-girls get reconciled once and for all and Kara EARNS the mantle of Supergirl. That'll earn some points with me at least.
Forsaken_One
03-29-2005, 08:03 PM
Dont forget....
Green Arrow is part of that team and you know how Bats feels about him, or SHOULD at least considering IC.
A good point. And just for future reference spoilers can be made by doing [ spoil][ /spoil]. White text has the problem of showing up in quote boxes like the one above.
I think we should clear up whatever confusion there may be about which Supergirl is which.
I don't know how the previous Supergirl ended up (I don't get it where I live) and the Cir-El Supergirl got a too-quick wrap-up. Just one issue where all the S-girls get reconciled once and for all and Kara EARNS the mantle of Supergirl. That'll earn some points with me at least.
True. I think Cir-el was discovered to be a fraud created by the Futuresmiths (whoever they are) and was wiped out of existance after a rather uninteresting and poorly run career. Somehow I just can't see Loeb acknowledging that Linda Davners was ever Supergirl though; he doesn't seem to like anything after the silver age of comic books.
bannermanonemillion
03-29-2005, 09:44 PM
A good point. And just for future reference spoilers can be made by doing [ spoil][ /spoil]. White text has the problem of showing up in quote boxes like the one above.
True. I think Cir-el was discovered to be a fraud created by the Futuresmiths (whoever they are) and was wiped out of existance after a rather uninteresting and poorly run career. Somehow I just can't see Loeb acknowledging that Linda Davners was ever Supergirl though; he doesn't seem to like anything after the silver age of comic books.
What's worse: Writers who cling to the Silver Age and demand that all others are crap or writers who do their best to eradicate all SA references from henceforth?
Spoilers for... hell, even saying which series it is is a spoiler. Umm... spoilers for Justice League Elite. Now if you don't want any more of that series spoiled, don't read on.
Now the meaty spoilers: Do you remember Justice League Elite? The preemptive strike force, the "dark" JLA? Well since they're all ex-cons or other morally questionable people the JLA added the Flash to their ranks, though obviously not under his own name. Batman did the same except he didn't tell anyone; he took Batgirl and put her into the team as the scarred assassin who had killed hundreds of people by her sixteenth year, which is really remarkably close to her own real experience.
The thing is she's actually come to like these people in Justice League Elite. She's even come to like like one of them, Coldcast, though I suspect that'll be in the same vein as her crush on Superboy or that one terrorist metahuman; i.e. it won't last outside of the pages of JL:E. But it is a source of tension between her and Batman since she's come to know these people while Batman considers them dangerous and hasn't allowed himself to know them personally. Batgirl sees herself in these people in that she too has killed a person and is trying to repent for that, just as these people, from Coldcast to Major Disaster, are trying to do good despite the past. Batman, being Batman, is rather unforgiving and not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Thanks! :)
See, if I knew that I'd have been reading that book. :mad:
vBulletin® v3.6.4, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.