A female Two-Face for the Batman sequel? Yay, or Nay? [Archive]

The Joker

03-27-2005, 05:49 AM

I've been reading some rumors of Katie Holmes possibly being set up for basically replacing Harvey Dent. In the new film, I believe she's set up as a District Attorney Assistant. But by the sequel, she very well may be a District Attorney herself.

Would you like the idea of Nolan & Company re-imaging Two-Face as a female? Or would you prefer Harvey Dent to be introduced instead?

IMO, a female Two-Face is a crazy idea. But one thats crazy enough to actually work! Theres many dramatic possibilities if this turns to be the case. To have the woman Bruce loves, turn into a hideously scarred criminal. Would, IMO, translate very well onto the silver screen. And would overall, probably add alot more drama to the film than if it's Harvey Dent. But like everyone else, I would LOVE to see Guy Pearce as Dent.

So Yay, or Nay? :)

Alan2099

03-27-2005, 06:39 AM

NO! For the Sweet LOVE of Jumping Jesus on a Pogop stick, NO!

Grant

03-27-2005, 06:51 AM

I think switching genders works in some cases. But I don't think this is one of them. They already screwed up Two Face in Batman Forever and they canceled the '60s Batman show before Clint Eastwood could play him (which would have been awesome). I think if Goyer is still writing I think they won't go that route.

Plus I heard they were originally put Dent in Batman Begins but opted out because they rather introduce him in the same movie when he becomes Two-Face. You instead of dealing with that messy recasting that happened in Batman Forever.

The Joker

03-27-2005, 07:02 AM

and they canceled the '60s Batman show before Clint Eastwood could play him (which would have been awesome).

Wait a sec.

Eastwood was going to play Two-Face? :confused:

Grant

03-27-2005, 07:07 AM

Wait a sec.

Eastwood was going to play Two-Face? :confused:

Rumour has it he signed on right before they cancelled the show in 1966. It says so in his imdb bio. Haven't heard any confirmation but I know a lot of celeberities wanted to guest star on that show so it very possible it's true.

Eumastas

03-27-2005, 07:09 AM

nay nay nay nay

Beastfan07

03-27-2005, 07:24 AM

NO! It's Harvey Dent, not Rachel Dawes.

kash

03-27-2005, 08:44 AM

i dunno about using two face in the second film. my favourite harvey has alwasy been jeff loeb's, and i really wanted to see harvey in the first film, as they build towards his fall from grace. a movie based on long hallowe'en would be perfect and just think of it in nolan's hands(save for the every villian available, but that can be tweaked majorly)

Siythe

03-27-2005, 08:49 AM

I'm less worried about two face being female than I am Katie Holmes acting the part.

IamtheRock3

03-27-2005, 09:42 AM

I can buy Two Face as a woman

But not Katie Holmes. And it not that she a bad actor but you need a strong Feminet precence that really can match the lead actor

Katie ok but she doesnt have the chops to match that.

Batfan

03-27-2005, 09:52 AM

if you don't like the idea of Rachel as Two-Face don't worry. We WILL see Harvey Dent. Nolan, Goyer and Bale have to much respect for the Batman characters and comics to pull that. He WILL be in the next film helping Batman and Gordon catch the Joker, but he won't appear as two-face until the third film.

Siythe

03-27-2005, 10:14 AM

Which brings up the question of who the hell you get to play the Joker and get the part out of the shadow of Jack?

Sean Whitmore

03-27-2005, 10:28 AM

Plus I heard they were originally put Dent in Batman Begins but opted out because they rather introduce him in the same movie when he becomes Two-Face. You instead of dealing with that messy recasting that happened in Batman Forever.

Personally, I think that was a big mistake. Dent's gonna seem a lot less sympathetic when he's introduced in the second movie and becomes Two Face about 15 minutes in. Establishing his friendship with Bruce (or Batman, however they're playing it) in the first movie would've delivered a MAJOR emotional punch to his eventual transformation, especially among viewers who don't know Dent is Two Face.

Of course, this could all be moot, since we'll hopefully see a Nolan/Goyer Joker movie before a Two Face one, and Dent can be introduced there.

As for casting difficulties, that's what airtight contracts are for. That's how Nicholson got a paycheck for Batman Returns. :)

SEAN

Grant

03-27-2005, 12:02 PM

Personally, I think that was a big mistake. Dent's gonna seem a lot less sympathetic when he's introduced in the second movie and becomes Two Face about 15 minutes in. Establishing his friendship with Bruce (or Batman, however they're playing it) in the first movie would've delivered a MAJOR emotional punch to his eventual transformation, especially among viewers who don't know Dent is Two Face.

Movies set up relationships within the first 15 or 30 minutes all the time. Why is this different? You can watch the Two Face episodes of Batman: The Animated Series on it's own (without seeing the previous Harvey appearance) and achieve the same emotional punch.

Grant

03-27-2005, 12:06 PM

Which brings up the question of who the hell you get to play the Joker and get the part out of the shadow of Jack?

Anybody who is good and can bring something new to the table. I think of Mark Hamill more as the Joker then Jack Nicholson. Not dissing Jack but we've had a couple people play the Joker already. I can deal with the change. Be nice if the next movie Joker is a little more athletic like he is in the comics and the cartoons. I'm not talking kung fu or anything. Just someone who can handle himself one on one with Batman.

SUPERMAN PRIME

03-27-2005, 12:23 PM

no because this will mean...the two face will immediately die somehow in comics and his long lost daughter will return to seek vengeance from batman for her father's death ! we know what the movies are doing to comic characters and i hope the damage in the batman to the batman regular continuity from the movies will be minimal !

The Xenos

03-27-2005, 12:49 PM

NAY! NAY! NAY! A million and one times NAY! Relaly, that would ruin the movie for me. They've been doing so well staying truthful and they're no need for such deviation.

-Xenos

Sean Whitmore

03-27-2005, 12:51 PM

Movies set up relationships within the first 15 or 30 minutes all the time. Why is this different?

It seems a little different with super hero stuff. If, say, Jude Law is tapped to play Two Face, then he's Two Face in the audience's mind the second he steps on screen. Any character development is almost moot, since he's gonna become a bad guy within the first half hour.

But giving Dent a continuous supporting role throughout an entire 2-hour movie can really explore his character, instead of just the bare-bones "this is who he is, this is what he does" introduction that supporting characters get.

SEAN

mgs

03-27-2005, 01:16 PM

personally, i really don't like the character of two-face anyways. man or woman is not an issue.

bannermanonemillion

03-27-2005, 02:00 PM

I've been thinking long and hard about who should play Joker and I can think of one actor who's got the right look: Adrien Brody.

Tall, lanky with that long face and sharp nose and greasy hair all looks very Joker-like. Thing is, I don't know if he can actually play the Joker.

Viking Bastard

03-27-2005, 02:50 PM

As for casting difficulties, that's what airtight contracts are for. That's how Nicholson got a paycheck for Batman Returns. :)How? Am I forgetting a flashback sequence of some kind?

Sean Whitmore

03-27-2005, 03:33 PM

How? Am I forgetting a flashback sequence of some kind?

I don't exactly remember the details, but either Nicholson signed a two-movie deal, or he immediately signed a contract for the sequel after the first one became a hit. When Burton and Co. decided they wouldn't be bringing Joker back for the sequel, they were s**t outta luck, 'cause Nicholson had a contract, and they had to pay his rates. It's my favorite "Hollywood "eff you" story. :D

SEAN

Gaz

03-27-2005, 03:39 PM

Why not get Hamill to play the Joker?

Grant

03-27-2005, 03:41 PM

It seems a little different with super hero stuff. If, say, Jude Law is tapped to play Two Face, then he's Two Face in the audience's mind the second he steps on screen. Any character development is almost moot, since he's gonna become a bad guy within the first half hour.

Even with superhero movies. Spider-man 2 developed a close relationship between Doc Ock and Spidey well into the first 30 minutes of the movie. And it worked out pretty effectively if you ask me. You don't need a lot of scenes to establish a relationship just a few good ones.

Sean Whitmore

03-27-2005, 03:43 PM

Why not get Hamill to play the Joker?

Even though Joker's never been known as a big fighter dude, I'd prefer an actor who looks like he could conceivably be a match for Bale. Not buff or a skilled fighter, but someone who could strangle the life out of you if you gave him half a chance. Like he was back in his first few appearances.

SEAN

bannermanonemillion

03-27-2005, 04:43 PM

Even though Joker's never been known as a big fighter dude, I'd prefer an actor who looks like he could conceivably be a match for Bale. Not buff or a skilled fighter, but someone who could strangle the life out of you if you gave him half a chance. Like he was back in his first few appearances.

SEAN

Problem is unless I'm off, Joker's been known as the slim, pale figure who lets his thugs do the fighting and even if Batman gets past them (which he always does) Joker has acid squirting flowers, guns, bombs or hostages to hold Bats at bay. But Joker stripped down to nothing versus Batman? "I have a pale, giggling bloody mess for one Jeremiah Arkham? Please sign here."

Now maybe Joker can be shown having the kind of speed and strength you'd expect from a madman a la Hannibal Lecter but he should be smart enough to keep his distance from Batman.

Sean Whitmore

03-27-2005, 05:01 PM

Problem is unless I'm off, Joker's been known as the slim, pale figure who lets his thugs do the fighting and even if Batman gets past them (which he always does) Joker has acid squirting flowers, guns, bombs or hostages to hold Bats at bay. But Joker stripped down to nothing versus Batman? "I have a pale, giggling bloody mess for one Jeremiah Arkham? Please sign here."

Yeah, as Batman retroactively becomes more skilled as the years go on (in the Bob Kane days he was just a strong, athletic guy), it makes less and less sense that Joker could face him physically, even with his "maniacal strength" that was so often mentioned.

But even in the animated series (most notably "Mad Love" and the flashbacks in the Batman Beyond movie), there were some great scenes where Joker fought him hand-to-hand. All you have to do is wear Batman down first, either physically or emotionally, and give Joker plenty of hidden weapons. He'll still lose, but it's more satisfying than Joker just surrendering after Batman has defeated his goons. :)

SEAN

Forsaken_One

03-27-2005, 05:08 PM

Mark Hammil could buff up for the part. And he does a great Joker, he even looks like him when he was doing the voice for the Animated Series.

bannermanonemillion

03-27-2005, 10:15 PM

Yeah, as Batman retroactively becomes more skilled as the years go on (in the Bob Kane days he was just a strong, athletic guy), it makes less and less sense that Joker could face him physically, even with his "maniacal strength" that was so often mentioned.

But even in the animated series (most notably "Mad Love" and the flashbacks in the Batman Beyond movie), there were some great scenes where Joker fought him hand-to-hand. All you have to do is wear Batman down first, either physically or emotionally, and give Joker plenty of hidden weapons. He'll still lose, but it's more satisfying than Joker just surrendering after Batman has defeated his goons. :)

SEAN

Agreed. Movie Joker should be shown as very, VERY quick on his feet, cunning and with suprises coming out of nowhere. The challenge will be to actually get Batman's hands on the guy and then (after a long frustrating chase a la "Se7en") we can sit back and enjoy a beatdown that would make Andy Sipowicz proud.

comic_lover

03-27-2005, 10:24 PM

Lurch

03-27-2005, 10:46 PM

bannermanonemillion

03-28-2005, 05:08 AM

I vote Nay. I just don't see the point, and the dynamic of the Dent/Wayne relationship would be diminished if Dent were a female. Not trying to be misogynistic about it, but there are certain male bonds that define relationships in a way that couldn't be accomplished if Dent were a female.

Agreed. Also, it's easier to draw parallels between the two men, both driven, both strong-willed, both wrestling with their respective dark sides.......

The Joker

03-28-2005, 05:13 AM

NO ! Why break what doesn't need fixing ? Friggin Hollywood morons.... :rolleyes:

Well it's not likely to happen. It's something that caught my eye, and thought was a interesting concept. Not particularly something I'm fully behind. But interesting nevertheless. Unfortunately, Dent isnt included in Batman Begins. The relationship isnt there. And the dynamic between these two figures, again, is not there. I believe if Dent WOULD HAVE been included in Batman Begins, it certainly would have really started the ball rolling on his eventual fall from grace. And have made the sequel, which is probably going to feature Two-Face, all that more satisfying.
Hollywood has a cliche for being short sighted sometimes, well in this case, I believe it's a pretty fair observation. Just my opinion.

As for Movie Joker, someone like Hannibal Lecter would be nice. But The Joker is nothing like a street fighter. And shouldnt be built into something of one. Even with his pure manical power, he still wouldnt be a match for Batman. Who by that time, later on in the series, will surely be even more equipped, and alsp be an even better all around fighter, than he already is in "Batman Begins". Having The Joker be somewhat of a physical match for Batman is just wrong IMO. Maybe if Batman is physically exhausted. But definately not someone who can go toe to toe with Batman at any given time.

Captain Blitz

03-28-2005, 05:49 AM

Jesus, a female Two-Face sounds just plain stupid, so a big NO for this silly idea.

Eumenide No 2

03-28-2005, 07:54 AM

What an idiotic idea, hope it's just a rumour...Nay here

Guts/Batman

03-28-2005, 08:01 AM

BIG TIME nay on this.

Why do we have to change things up just because some people in society want to see things changed. I realize that most of the people who see superhero movies have never read a comic book in their life so the director is trying to play to the comic book readers and the non comic book readers but a female two-face doesn't sound right to me.

Personally I'd love to see the Joker and Scarecrow together after seeing the chaos they started in Knightfall. I also wanna see Bane get in his licks on Batman. The Bane that broke Batman not the one from Batman and Robin, of all the characters that got screwed in the movies i think Bane gopt it the worst, besides Batman.

If your going to have female enemies put Ivy and Catwoman in a movie. Just don't mess with what isn't broken.

Btw, after seeing the previous batman movies i'd said they are alright but looking back on them i'd say that they were a very poor interpretation of what the characters from the comic realy are.

Bane, non-speaking monster.
Joker, sick, sadistic, planning MFer (just like Green Goblin should have been)
etc.

Batfan

03-28-2005, 09:16 AM

for everyone trying to figure out how the audience can believe the whole Harvey Dent relationship for only 15 minutes before he becomes Two-face relax. He will be Harvey Dent through the entire second film, then two-face in the the third. When he becomes two-face it will be at the very end of the second or the start of the third.