Batman and OMAC (Countdown Speculation)

[vantheman77]

Batman will get back at the league for mindwiping him, but can you imagine
what will happen if the league finds out that the OMAC is Batman's weapons?
Can the dissension among the league be this bad?

[Forsaken_One]

Assuming that the solicit is accurate, which is in no way a safe assumption. And assuming, even if it is accurate, that there aren't extenuating circumstances. Which, again, isn't safe.

And besides, these people aren't exactly innocents. I mean, Oracle has everything known about the superhero community in a computer somewhere, so if that was ever breached the Superheros would be in trouble. But I don't think they'd all get mad at Oracle for having that information. Superman's android went off and killed two Titans, but no one demanded he leave the League in shame. Wally West mindwiped the entire world in order to get back his secret identity. Hal Jordan killed off most of the GL Corps and he'll be accepted back with few questions. John Stewart destroyed an entire world, Wonder Woman killed a mythical being on national television, Martian Manhunter housed a being that almost destroyed the entire world. These are not people who really have the right to be judgemental.

[Static-Pulse]

I mean, Oracle has everything known about the superhero community in a computer somewhere, so if that was ever breached the Superheros would be in trouble.What do you mean "if that was ever breached?" At least three villains, including Brother Eye, have had access to Oracle's systems. There's no "if" about it.

[Brad Curran]

And besides, these people aren't exactly innocents. I mean, Oracle has everything known about the superhero community in a computer somewhere, so if that was ever breached the Superheros would be in trouble. But I don't think they'd all get mad at Oracle for having that information. Superman's android went off and killed two Titans, but no one demanded he leave the League in shame. Wally West mindwiped the entire world in order to get back his secret identity. Hal Jordan killed off most of the GL Corps and he'll be accepted back with few questions. John Stewart destroyed an entire world, Wonder Woman killed a mythical being on national television, Martian Manhunter housed a being that almost destroyed the entire world. These are not people who really have the right to be judgemental.

And you've perfectly incapsalated the problem with this recent grittying up of the DCU. When big gun members of the JLA don't sound heroic...

[Forsaken_One]

And you've perfectly incapsalated the problem with this recent grittying up of the DCU. When big gun members of the JLA don't sound heroic...
But when were they your ideal of heroic. I've heard a lot of wishful noises about how the DCU used to be a happier place, but reading older comics doesn't really make it out to be like that, they just ignored the consequences more. I mean, Superman put out the Sun with his superbreath, was at times extremely sneaky and underhanded, and even in the 1970s movies killed off people or scentenced them to an eternity in a featureless limbo. As has been stated, Green Lantern really did mindwipe people, it just wasn't seen as a big deal. Batman used to use a gun for God's sake! When was this utopian era of good stories that had heroic heros who never faultered or did even slightly immoral things?

[bannermanonemillion]

But when were they your ideal of heroic. I've heard a lot of wishful noises about how the DCU used to be a happier place, but reading older comics doesn't really make it out to be like that, they just ignored the consequences more. I mean, Superman put out the Sun with his superbreath, was at times extremely sneaky and underhanded, and even in the 1970s movies killed off people or scentenced them to an eternity in a featureless limbo. As has been stated, Green Lantern really did mindwipe people, it just wasn't seen as a big deal. Batman used to use a gun for God's sake! When was this utopian era of good stories that had heroic heros who never faultered or did even slightly immoral things?

Nobodies saying the heroes were friggin' perfect. What people are moaning about is that heroes used to STAND for something and that something was the idea that being a hero meant doing the right thing, the right way and for the right reason (because it's right). Was there revenge involved sometimes? Of course. Did their heroic ideals sometimes backfire? I'm sure. But you would not have seen the heroes getting involved in some of the things that got under fans skin during the past year. If you want more detail, go to the "Death Spiral" thread at the Rumbles Board.

[hitokiri_]

well... technically, OMAC is batman's weapon.

[bannermanonemillion]

well... technically, OMAC is batman's weapon.

Don't tell me, one night Selina made an off-hand remark while she and Bruce were in bed and it inspired him to create OMAC but to make sure it wasn't abused, he used Bat-hypnosis on himself so he'd forget it and now it's come back to bite him, right? Call the story "For Now, then Later." :evilsmile

[marshal99]

So if Omac is batman's weapon , when is the mohawk guy going to show ? ;)

[CLavery]

Thanks alot for spoiling part of what i assume will be in countdown :(

[Expletive Deleted]

Just out of curiousity, has it been confirmed anywhere that OMAC is Batman's weapon?

[titanfan]

You can't fault someone for having a weapon, can you? Superman built a giant robot that killed Donna Troy, yet Wonder Woman seemed to not have any problems with it.

[Adam Crocker]

...Wonder Woman killed a mythical being on national television...

Eh? She slew a Medusa, who I think had kidnapped the child of a diplomatic aid just to lure her in. I'm not sure if that's on the level with the other events you're describing.

[Forsaken_One]

Eh? She slew a Medusa, who I think had kidnapped the child of a diplomatic aid just to lure her in. I'm not sure if that's on the level with the other events you're describing.
Probably not, I mostly used it because it was the only thing I could remember from Wonder Woman recently. I don't really pay that much attention to her so I couldn't think of any huge, possible world destroying events she's been responsible for. Though she hasn't given the Purple Ray technology to the public, that's pretty bad. :)

[bannermanonemillion]

Just out of curiousity, has it been confirmed anywhere that OMAC is Batman's weapon?

It doesn't make any sense that Batman would have a super-satellite the watched superheroes and NEVER MADE ANY MENTION OF IT EVER.

Not to Oracle, even? And when did he get the friggin' free time to do this?

[Forsaken_One]

It doesn't make any sense that Batman would have a super-satellite the watched superheroes and NEVER MADE ANY MENTION OF IT EVER.

Not to Oracle, even? And when did he get the friggin' free time to do this?
Well... if it's Lexcorp property he might technically own it thanks to his takeover of that company. It's kinda a streach, but maybe?

[Adam Crocker]

It doesn't make any sense that Batman would have a super-satellite the watched superheroes and NEVER MADE ANY MENTION OF IT EVER.

Welcome to the new DCU, where nothing makes sense because it's "kewl."

[Sharcque]

Maybe Bats made OMAC a while back, after he found out about the mindwipe. We have no idea how long he's known about the mindwipe, do we? And if that's the case, why would he EVER tell ANYONE?!? So, theoretically, Tower of Babel could've been the Secret 7's fault.....

[Expletive Deleted]

Welcome to the new DCU, where nothing makes sense because it's "kewl."If it turns out that the Batman/OMAC connection is true, it'll be a retcon. As such, I don't think you can hold poor correlation with older stories against it. If it's a retroactive continuity insertion, of course it won't match up. That's sort of the point.

I'm not particularly fond of this whole Countdown thing either, but you can't fault a retcon for being a retcon.

[Static-Pulse]

If it turns out that the Batman/OMAC connection is true, it'll be a retcon.In BOP #80, Oracle stumbles across some Lexcorp satellites and later gets kicked out of their systems by a big eye-shaped icon/avatar. I'm starting to think that, maybe, OMAC was one of Luthor's projects that Wayne Enterprises absorbed back when Bruce bought out Lexcorp.

If Batman has recently started remembering the memory wipe, then he might be very interested in a sky-spy project started by Luthor.

[Ruthless_Pryde]

what is OMAC? I am sorry for asking what is proably a dumb question, but someone pls fill me in. Thanks

[Forefinger]

With the recent revelation in Outsiders that Batman/Bruce Wayne actualy owns Optitron(?) the company that bankrolls the Outsiders team, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that through another division of Wayne Industries, Batman contracted out OMAC for the governments use. With Wayne Industries absorbing Lexcorp and the other obviously hidden levels of the company, it's turned Bruce Wayne into probably one of the richest men on Earth. I wouldn't at all be surprised if somewhere there was a Department of Defense subcontractor that was tasked to design the OMAC from Batman's designs and to sell it to the government.

[bannermanonemillion]

In BOP #80, Oracle stumbles across some Lexcorp satellites and later gets kicked out of their systems by a big eye-shaped icon/avatar. I'm starting to think that, maybe, OMAC was one of Luthor's projects that Wayne Enterprises absorbed back when Bruce bought out Lexcorp.

If Batman has recently started remembering the memory wipe, then he might be very interested in a sky-spy project started by Luthor.

See, THAT would make a lick of sense, so don't expect to see it. :evilangry

[Expletive Deleted]

what is OMAC? I am sorry for asking what is proably a dumb question, but someone pls fill me in. ThanksOmac (http://www.geocities.com/cheeksilver/omac1.htm)
http://www.comicsvf.com/scans/vodc/omac/1.jpg

This new version looks like it keeps some of the visuals and changes everything else, but that's the original.

As for the Batman connection, after skimming through COUNTDOWN . . . I'm not seeing it.

I may have missed something, but it looked like OMAC was a Checkmate project that Batman was investigating. It didn't necessarily look like something he was involved in.

[FanboyStranger]

SPOILERS FOR COUNTDOWN



















Unlike many of you, after I read Countdown this afternoon, I was convinced that Batman at least partially responsible for Brother Eye and OMAC. Again, this mostly speculation with some spoilage, but the revelation that Maxwell Lord is the new head of Checkmate was a brilliant move, not only in that I didn't see it coming, but that it makes sense. Max has always been treated as a joke, but at least to me, there was always something sinister behind it. He is, after all, a man who controls minds. I suspect that Batman had planned the device, but never succeeded in its execusion. Lord read his mind, took the plans, weaseled his way into the Luthor White House with plans for a revamped Checkmate, telepathically convinced Luthor, Bruce Wayne, Ted Kord, and others he had extended contact with to fund the organization after cementing his profile as head joker by keeping the JLI in check with his shenanigans, thus throwing the suspicion anywhere but himself. He also dictated that Booster Gold, a man from the future, be placed in the JLA, using close proximity to him to wipe his future memories, again, to cover his tracks. In addition, he has Sasha Bordreux, a close confidant of Batman, initiated into Checkmate, thereby gaining access to her knowledge of Batman's plans. Furthermore, recent events have caused Batman to shut himself off from his "family" leaving him more likely, particularly after the revelations in Identity Crisis-- the mindwipe violation and the orphaning of Tim Drake--to see Lord's side of it, i.e. that metahumans are the greatest danger to humanity. Batman also funds the Outsiders, an organization run by Arsenal, a former agent of Checkmate, which, when it comes down to it, is his own personal strikeforce which includes his protege, Nightwing.

Again, this is all speculation, but I think it's there, guys. Maybe someone else could tie more of these threads together.

[Typo Lad]

Max started OUT as a bad guy, secretly working for the Construct. After Zero Hour, it was revealed that his mind was taken by the Kilg%re after he died (as I recall) and he became the new Lord Havok.

Max has died so many times... does anyone actually care?

[Ned Leeds]

It doesn't make any sense that Batman would have a super-satellite the watched superheroes and NEVER MADE ANY MENTION OF IT EVER.

Not to Oracle, even? And when did he get the friggin' free time to do this?
Can we really complain about this kind of retcon? We need new stories, month after month, year after year. Everything can't be shoe-horned into existing history. The new OMAC was created in the last year or so. How could writers 5,10, hell 30 years ago know that in 2005, Batman was going to need a super spy satellite?

Point is, this is not a retcon. Bringing back Hal and having Parrallax be an evil yellow monster is a retcon. It changes an existing stroryline. OMAC is new and changes no existing story.

Plus, if you had a super secret spy satellite to keep tabs on all the metas, would you let everyone know? I think not.

[Expletive Deleted]

Point is, this is not a retcon. Bringing back Hal and having Parrallax be an evil yellow monster is a retcon. It changes an existing stroryline. OMAC is new and changes no existing story.Assuming the Batman-OMAC connection exists (which, again, I doubt), it's still a retcon. The term retcon doesn't just refer to retroactive changes to continuity. It also refers to retroactive insertions.

[Ned Leeds]

Assuming the Batman-OMAC connection exists (which, again, I doubt), it's still a retcon. The term retcon doesn't just refer to retroactive changes to continuity. It also refers to retroactive insertions.

Point taken. I still think there is no problem with a retroactive insertion. They are neccessary, and I don't think Batman's connection to OMAC is something to gripe about (not that you were).

[CaptMagellan]

"Assuming the Batman-OMAC connection exists (which, again, I doubt), it's still a retcon. "

The only evidence so far of the connection, that I can remember, is the Ad for OMAC (in Countdown) which has the tag line (going from memory here)...

"It was designed as Batman's greatest weapon.
It ended up as the DC Universe's worst nightmare"

Tower of Babel anyone?

[bannermanonemillion]

"Assuming the Batman-OMAC connection exists (which, again, I doubt), it's still a retcon. "

The only evidence so far of the connection, that I can remember, is the Ad for OMAC (in Countdown) which has the tag line (going from memory here)...

"It was designed as Batman's greatest weapon.
It ended up as the DC Universe's worst nightmare"

Tower of Babel anyone?

What about the Sasha Bordeaux-Checkmate connection?

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

What about the Sasha Bordeaux-Checkmate connection?

I think CaptMagellan and I might have had the same thought. Remember, Tower of Babel revealed Batman's protocols to take down an unknown number of superhumans. Later, after the "Murderer" story, Sasha Bordeaux, bodyguard to Bruce Wayne and eventually allowed access to the Batcave, was revealed to be a Checkmate operative.

My theory is that OMAC is a Checkmate creation, whose primary basis is the Tower of Babel protocols acquired by Ms. Sasha herself. I'm thinking the new miniseries will involve Batman solving this mystery and confronting Sasha.

I'm more ready to believe this than the theory of Batman having an active hand in creating something that would kill his colleagues... :confused:

[Typo Lad]

I'm more ready to believe this than the theory of Batman having an active hand in creating something that would kill his colleagues... :confused:

But... he's already HAD an active hand in it, just by creating the Batman Protocols in the first place.

Which, to me, was just a remarkably cool but really out of character idea.

[Peter]

As has been stated, Green Lantern really did mindwipe people, it just wasn't seen as a big deal. Batman used to use a gun for God's sake!

For about six months back in the 1930s, yes.


Tower of Babel anyone?

See, now, Batman's actions in that one -- coming up with ways to incapacitate/kill his team-mates -- are sort of understandable. He suspected his team-mates and fellow heroes were capable of abusing their powers horribly, and he was right, they did. He just didn't find out about it until later, and the events of "Identity Crisis".

But he was right all along regardless, even if he didn't realise it at the time.

[Typo Lad]

You know, after ToB, WG, and now this, you have to wonder if batman will ever store any data on a computer ever again.

[CaptMagellan]

My point about the Tower of Babel comparison is that if OMAC does involve any sort of Bat protocol or contingency plan against the heroes, it'll just seem like a retread story to me. And a retread story that, depending on the true origin of the OMAC project, I don't want to read.

How many times do we have to read about Batman screwing up and causing the downfall of his friends.

"Well he's too paranoid. If he trusted people more this wouldn't have happened" is one argument. Except that, especially in light of ID Crisis, his paranoia is justified. And there's a weird mixed message with the whole Sasha thing. He certainly wasn't too paranoid with her. Too trusting in my opinion. Which will come to bite him on his ass again.

So we get a DCU wide beat down on Bats. "You're too paranoid" "You trusted the wrong people" "You drive all your friends away by being a jerk" "You're borderline crazy".

Bah. I liked the old Denny O'Neil regime better. At least then he held more to the idea that Bruce was a hero who made incredibly powerful choices to live the life he did, instead of having a psyche that makes Miller's portrayal look like sunshine and light.

[FanboyStranger]

There is a 5 page preview over at Newsarama that pretty much gives away the Batman connection.

[Kid Seven]

Thanks Fanboy. :)

[Justin Davis]

And you've perfectly incapsalated the problem with this recent grittying up of the DCU. When big gun members of the JLA don't sound heroic...

Well, two of these events in the "recent grittying up" aren't recent at all.

Hal Jordan killed off most of the GL Corps and he'll be accepted back with few questions. John Stewart destroyed an entire world

Plus, if I have this right, Flash didn't ask for his identity to become hidden, he just didn't make an effort to reveal his identity again once it was hidden by Spectre. Also, what mythological creature did Wonder Woman kill that would upset the public?

[Forsaken_One]

Batman always seems to be the level headed one that the other heros claim is just him being a jerk. Within the last few years we've had at least these four I can think of off the top of my head.

Batman: The Justice League members could use their power to destroy the world, either by going bad or by just being mind controlled/possessed. I should create safeguards to stop this.
Response: I can't believe you didn't tell us about safeguards that were meant to stop us when we became mind controlled. You're out of the JLA.

Batman: Green Arrow seems to be back with no memory of the last ten years for no explainable reason after Superman saw him atomized. And you all let him into the Justice League tower, gave him a tour, and hugged him gleefully upon seeing him. What's wrong with you?
Response: Man, you're so paranoid. Freaky paranoid. Of course he's Ollie, what you think someone has the technology to clone or create a robotic double? Pfft...

Batman: I don't think we should trust the word of a suspect Kryptonian-like girl who can't remember her own past. We should do tests to make sure she's not a clone or something.
Response: (Superman) No! I'm not alone! I'm going to introduce her to my wife, parents, pet, clone, and the whole of every single superhero in a team. Of course she's my Kryptonian cousin, what you think someone has the technology to clone or create a robotic double? Pfft...

Batman: Hal killed a lot of people and tried to rewrite time, I don't really trust him all that much.
Response: You're just angry because he's not afraid of you and you don't have powers!

Plus, if I have this right, Flash didn't ask for his identity to become hidden, he just didn't make an effort to reveal his identity again once it was hidden by Spectre. Also, what mythological creature did Wonder Woman kill that would upset the public?
The mythological creature was a medusa, and it was mostly that Wonder Woman killed her on national television, by cutting off her head with a battle axe. And you thought there was a big debate over the "wardrobe malfunction" being on national TV. ;)

The other part was that I don't read much Wonder Woman so I couldn't think of a situation where she endangered the world off the top of my head like I could with the other members. To continue: Kyle Rayner's imaginary friend almost destroyed Earth.

[Kramer4262]

I just want to know why the Wonder Woman key on OMAC is always sticky! :D

[CaptMagellan]

Great post Forsaken One!

[bannermanonemillion]

Batman always seems to be the level headed one that the other heros claim is just him being a jerk. Within the last few years we've had at least these four I can think of off the top of my head.

Batman: The Justice League members could use their power to destroy the world, either by going bad or by just being mind controlled/possessed. I should create safeguards to stop this.
Response: I can't believe you didn't tell us about safeguards that were meant to stop us when we became mind controlled. You're out of the JLA.

Batman: Green Arrow seems to be back with no memory of the last ten years for no explainable reason after Superman saw him atomized. And you all let him into the Justice League tower, gave him a tour, and hugged him gleefully upon seeing him. What's wrong with you?
Response: Man, you're so paranoid. Freaky paranoid. Of course he's Ollie, what you think someone has the technology to clone or create a robotic double? Pfft...

Batman: I don't think we should trust the word of a suspect Kryptonian-like girl who can't remember her own past. We should do tests to make sure she's not a clone or something.
Response: (Superman) No! I'm not alone! I'm going to introduce her to my wife, parents, pet, clone, and the whole of every single superhero in a team. Of course she's my Kryptonian cousin, what you think someone has the technology to clone or create a robotic double? Pfft...

Batman: Hal killed a lot of people and tried to rewrite time, I don't really trust him all that much.
Response: You're just angry because he's not afraid of you and you don't have powers!


The mythological creature was a medusa, and it was mostly that Wonder Woman killed her on national television, by cutting off her head with a battle axe. And you thought there was a big debate over the "wardrobe malfunction" being on national TV. ;)

The other part was that I don't read much Wonder Woman so I couldn't think of a situation where she endangered the world off the top of my head like I could with the other members. To continue: Kyle Rayner's imaginary friend almost destroyed Earth.


Batman: Kyle Rayner's subconcious nearly destroyed Earth and the only assurance we have that it won't happen again is his word?
Response: SHUT UP! Give the kid a break! He's living in Hal Jordan's shadow!!

Batman: So now Hal Jordan's back like nothing's wrong and we're supposed to just accept him and hope another Fear Demon doesn't sneak in under the radar again?
Response: He's the greatest GL ever! How DARE you question him!!

Yeah, I've noticed the same trend.

[Kid Seven]

-ugh- I'm starting to get this image of a very crowded DC Outerspace where there's hundreds of spy satelites, all aimed at each other.

[Justin Davis]

The mythological creature was a medusa, and it was mostly that Wonder Woman killed her on national television, by cutting off her head with a battle axe. And you thought there was a big debate over the "wardrobe malfunction" being on national TV. ;)

I thought it was Medusa. Yeah, I'm pretty sure most would know she's a monster and not be upset she was killed. Now, if she cut off Pegasus's wings, that'd be different.

[Sharcque]

After getting mind-wiped, don't you think Bats had good reason to want to create OMAC (if he really did create it)? We really have no way of knowing how long he's known about the mind-wipe....