Betty Ross Banner: What now?

[Mike Smash!]

In my opinion, the biggest mistake that Bruce Jones made in his run was bringing Betty back.

To me, Betty was always the light at the end of the tunnel for Bruce. She was the reason he held on and didn't put a gun in his mouth. She was the reason he kept looking for a cure to the Hulk. It was that hope of a normal life with her that made him keep going.

Moreso than with just about any super-spouse aside from maybe Lois Lane, Betty helped define the Hulk mythos. She was that human element, that hope that he could be normal eventually.

So when Peter David killed Betty at the end of his run, it was a monumental thing, especially for Bruce. The Hulk has always been a tragic character, moreso than any other Marvel hero. Even the Thing, had friends and family to lean on and support him after the Hulk beat him up. The Hulk just had to move on and Betty (and Rick) remained the only friends that he had that didn't die or turn on him.

With Betty gone, that light at the end of the tunnel was snuffed out. And Jenkins, IMO, did an excellent job of portraying Banner as a socially awkward but ultimately heroic man who had very little left to live for. And in having Betty's body kept alive in that military base, we can see that she served the same purpose for her father too. She was the only thing he loved and didn't lash out at.

One poster had a theory about the end of the Lou Gerhig's disease arc a couple years ago that I really enjoyed and honestly wished they'd used. At the beginning and end of the arc, we see a grave being dug. And at the end, Bruce is cured due to the DNA of his father. This poster predicted that the DNA that saved him would be Betty's and that the grave we see at the end is Bruce and General Ross finally accepting that she's gone and putting her to rest.

The thought of that is an incredibly emotional thing. Both Ross and Banner have their own monsters and this woman is what keeps them grounded and she's gone.

I guess that's what bothered me the most about not only her resurrection, but having Bruce sleep with Nadia.

To me, I'd put Bruce in the same category as J'Onn J'Onzz, they're forever widowers and their dead spouse would never be replaced.

But Betty is back now, looks different, is emotionally detached from her husband, and is apparently a secret agent now.

Where would you like to see this go? What to you want the next writer to do with Betty?

[Steadfast]

I'd like it to just be a delusional woman who thinks she's Betty. Anything would be better than that screaming harpy in Bruce Jone's last issue.

Bruce sleeping with Nadia was out of character, "Betty" hitting on Doc Samson was out of character, Nadia was completely out of character, and the thing with the Abomination was abomintable.

Refresh my memory, but Peter David didn't have Betty die because of the Abimination.. that was added in durring Joe Casey's run on the book, right?

[protege]

Funny You should mention HARPY.....

[Steadfast]

If she had actually turned into the Harpy I would have been surprised. That would have meant that Jones had at least looked at Hulk back issues.

[Mike Smash!]

So, what should we see done with Betty in the foreseeable future?

[Knightmare]

Never been a huge Hulk fan- but the synopsis of Betty being the "light" for Ross and Banner sounds like the kind of stuff i'd like to read.

[Mike Smash!]

Never been a huge Hulk fan- but the synopsis of Betty being the "light" for Ross and Banner sounds like the kind of stuff i'd like to read.
You should really read the THE INCREDIBLE HULK: GROUND ZERO trade paperback, as well as THE INCREDIBLE HULK: PETER DAVID VISIONARIES for some great Hulk/Bruce/Betty stuff... Betty's death in THE INCREDIBLE HULK #467 is also very very powerful stuff.

And HULK: THE END also captures the Hulk and his tragic life so incredibly well.

Also the Paul Jenkins run of the current series (#12-32) is worth looking at for a post-Betty's death Bruce.

It's really powerful stuff when written well, Knightmare. Check it out and tell us what you think.

[Kevinroc]

I hope House of M wipes this Betty from continuity. I thought PAD did a wonderful job killing her.

[Jonathanos]

So, what should we see done with Betty in the foreseeable future?

How about:

Betty was pregnant when she died. That was a big motivation for Ross to preserve her since she'd revealed it to him (but not yet to Bruce). When Ryker took over Ross' base, he learned of Betty's pregnancy. Since Ryker's striving to cure his wife of g-ray poisoning, there's no way he'd pass up on the chance to obtain the Hulk's offspring so he switched her with an advanced LMD, complete with artificial fluids.

[west3man]

Almost every drop of this was news to me. I never even saw Betty die. I certainly didn't know that Peter David was the one who killed her off.

...and I call myself a Hulk fan.

I'm afraid I'm still stubbornly holding on to the Hulk I loved from waaay back when... that whole Hulk era. To me, Better never died, so her resurrection, while potentially problematic is a non-issue. Her possibly being a secret agent...? Well, I can't say that makes me wanna run back to the comic shop and catch up.

Maybe in time I'll be ready for real progress in these areas (or accept that this qualifies) but I'm not there, just yet.

[EmmaFrostSlavingFanBoy]

Bah! Betty is an integral part of the hulk mythos. PAD killing her off was vain, an attempt to be bigger than the Hulk and the mythos. A crappy attempt to redefine the Hulk in his own graven image. Am I the only one who thinks that PAD's run on the Hulk was bad. I mean all this crap about multiple hulks.

Get real people. The reason why the Hulk book was in trouble was because PAD did such a crappy job with it. I mean the Hulk was an icon of marvel. Heck if PAD wrote FF he would have killed Susan because he wanted to, because he PAD had to have his won imprint on an icon of the comic book world.

We still have to hear about his marvelous run on the hulk and how he redefined it. Jones made the hulk a smart thriller and saved it from the crap PAD put it through.

Bringing Betty back was salvation. It brought the Hulk back. Like Lois Lane, Mary Jane, and Sue Storm, she is a grand part of who the Hulk is. Bruce's dream that kept him going was being able to be normal and live with Betty, not to be some stupid fixer in vegas--pure crap.

By bringing betty, doc samson, and the leader back, Jones brought back the basic elements which made the hulk a great book.

I liked PAD's run on Supergirl, ironic that it became really good, when it was cancelled and he figured he should have a book he isn't ashamed of.

I'm giving his run on the Incredible Hulk a chance. In fact I admit to liking it, I think he realized there's no way he could actually screw it up any worse and he's content with telling great Hulk stories and not recreating it.

[Jonathanos]

The Hulk was not in trouble when PAD wrote it.

He also only had three personalities: Grey, Green, and Banner. That's it. The merger was a combination of the three. There were two Hulks for a grand total of five months.

The Hulk had a life in Las Vegas, not Bruce.

Bruce Jones did not bring back the characters you listed. He wrote other characters and used the names of Hulk supporting cast members.

[Matches Malone]

IIRC killing Betty was a suggestion made by PAD's editor, Bobbie Chase. I dug Jones' run, but I disagreed with bringing Betty back from the dead, especially the way it was done.

[chicorage]

I would of had no problems with Betty staying dead. It would of given a good chance of showing a more cynical darker side to Bruce from having lost everything in his life that mattered.

Jones tried to put a darker spin on the Hulk which is fine, but it just didn't work since everybody was out of character. Nobody stayed true to their personality any longer. Samson, Betty and Nadia were basically new characters in the way they acted, just to much change for it to feel right.

[Steadfast]

Bah! Betty is an integral part of the hulk mythos. PAD killing her off was vain, an attempt to be bigger than the Hulk and the mythos. A crappy attempt to redefine the Hulk in his own graven image. Am I the only one who thinks that PAD's run on the Hulk was bad. I mean all this crap about multiple hulks.

Get real people. The reason why the Hulk book was in trouble was because PAD did such a crappy job with it. I mean the Hulk was an icon of marvel. Heck if PAD wrote FF he would have killed Susan because he wanted to, because he PAD had to have his won imprint on an icon of the comic book world.

We still have to hear about his marvelous run on the hulk and how he redefined it. Jones made the hulk a smart thriller and saved it from the crap PAD put it through.

Bringing Betty back was salvation. It brought the Hulk back. Like Lois Lane, Mary Jane, and Sue Storm, she is a grand part of who the Hulk is. Bruce's dream that kept him going was being able to be normal and live with Betty, not to be some stupid fixer in vegas--pure crap.

By bringing betty, doc samson, and the leader back, Jones brought back the basic elements which made the hulk a great book.

I liked PAD's run on Supergirl, ironic that it became really good, when it was cancelled and he figured he should have a book he isn't ashamed of.

I'm giving his run on the Incredible Hulk a chance. In fact I admit to liking it, I think he realized there's no way he could actually screw it up any worse and he's content with telling great Hulk stories and not recreating it.

I'm just curious.. did you actually read Peter David's run on the Hulk? While toward the end it did lose some steam, it was one of the more successfull runs on the Hulk. David also made a regular use of Hulk's supporting cast... with their true personalities. And while I wasn't incredbily happy when they killed off Betty, it was at least done better how Jones brought her back.

[west3man]

I'm just curious.. did you actually read Peter David's run on the Hulk? While toward the end it did lose some steam, it was one of the more successfull runs on the Hulk. David also made a regular use of Hulk's supporting cast... with their true personalities. And while I wasn't incredbily happy when they killed off Betty, it was at least done better how Jones brought her back.
Would anyone mind telling me how Betty and how she was "brought back?"

Thanks, in advance.

[EmmaFrostSlavingFanBoy]

I'm just curious.. did you actually read Peter David's run on the Hulk? While toward the end it did lose some steam, it was one of the more successfull runs on the Hulk. David also made a regular use of Hulk's supporting cast... with their true personalities. And while I wasn't incredbily happy when they killed off Betty, it was at least done better how Jones brought her back.

I read bits and pieces of it. Not the whole run I admit, but I kept track of what happened. Too me the Hulk is the battle between Bruce and his demon--the hulk and his love for Betty and the tragic love story and triangle of bruce-hulk-betty with that slimeball Talbot thrown in.

I felt that Jones brought the hulk back to its core. To me the hulk was more of a drama with Hulk Smash thrown in. Bruce tying desperately to make things normal. I liked his other adventures, but killing betty was a huge mistake and unnessecary.

But, I liked Jones run and while I like what David is doing now, I don't think it will be as good as the Jones run. I mean Bruce had an imaginery friend named "hulk"? I mean get real.

I really liked the movie. To me it was true to the essence of the hulk.

[Jonathanos]

Banner isn't talking to an imaginary friend. He's talking to an alter. The Hulk personality is already formed. I don't like Banner calling the alter "Hulk", though.

[Stephane Garrelie]

I'm just curious.. did you actually read Peter David's run on the Hulk? While toward the end it did lose some steam, it was one of the more successfull runs on the Hulk. David also made a regular use of Hulk's supporting cast... with their true personalities. And while I wasn't incredbily happy when they killed off Betty, it was at least done better how Jones brought her back.
I loved PAD late 80's/ early 90's run on the hulk, but it's PAD's Hulk.
For me the real Hulk is more Len Wein/ Herb Trimpe or Bill Mantlo/Sal buscema version(s).
When I first saw that Bruce Jones was coming back to marvel (remember his great Ka-Zar stuff with Brent Anderson if my memory don't fool me.), I was very happy; and at the begging I really enjoyed his run. I loved his version of nadia even if it was very different of Peter David's one in that wonderfull issues with the abomination (what did she was? a dancer?). A very moving story. But Bruce Jones story-line was endless and I lose all interest for it.
About betty I didn't read the end of BJ run but I was happy to see her back.
I just hope that PAD will give her her true face back ( on many levels).
I loved PAD'Betty she was maybe even more interesting than his Hulk who was great. :cool: :)

[Steadfast]

I read bits and pieces of it. Not the whole run I admit, but I kept track of what happened. Too me the Hulk is the battle between Bruce and his demon--the hulk and his love for Betty and the tragic love story and triangle of bruce-hulk-betty with that slimeball Talbot thrown in.

I felt that Jones brought the hulk back to its core. To me the hulk was more of a drama with Hulk Smash thrown in. Bruce tying desperately to make things normal. I liked his other adventures, but killing betty was a huge mistake and unnessecary.

But, I liked Jones run and while I like what David is doing now, I don't think it will be as good as the Jones run. I mean Bruce had an imaginery friend named "hulk"? I mean get real.

I really liked the movie. To me it was true to the essence of the hulk.

The movie was okay, but generally borring. The best scenese were in the desert with the Hulk taking on the army..

As for Jones bringing the Huk back to his core... um... WHAT?! Let's see, we have a Bruce Banner that can access the strength of the Hulk without having to change. And if Banner actually DOES change, he's in complete control of the Hulk. Where was the battle between Banner and his demon there?

Also, where was the love for Betty. Banner slept with Nadia almost immediately. Banner has NEVER been a jump in the sack sort of guy. Banner's always been shy and timid when it comes to expressing his feelings towards women... especially women he likes. Heck, it took forever for he and Betty to finally get married. And when he found out that (damn I hate typing this) that "Betty" was alive, did he run back to his true love, no.. in Jone's run, he continued to have a relationship with Nadia. while "Betty" started putting the moves on Doc Samson.

Do yourself a favor and go back and re-read Peter David's first run on the Hulk, especially the parts with the Grey Hulk. If you want to see Bruce struggle with his "demon"... there you go. Banner and the Grey Hulk were constantly at each other's throats, trying to get rid of each other.

Glad you liked Jones run and that he got you into the Hulk.. but if you want to read true Hulk stories, read other parts of the Hulk run. And I'm not just saying Peter David's run, Len Wein's was great too... or go back to the begining and re-read Stan Lee's. Any of those are a better way to get your Hulk jones.. than through Jones.

[EmmaFrostSlavingFanBoy]

constantly [/B] at each other's throats, trying to get rid of each other.

Glad you liked Jones run and that he got you into the Hulk.. but if you want to read true Hulk stories, read other parts of the Hulk run. And I'm not just saying Peter David's run, Len Wein's was great too... or go back to the begining and re-read Stan Lee's. Any of those are a better way to get your Hulk jones.. than through Jones.

Dude, I'll give Stan Lee's run a reread. I've read Hulk, 1-6 and TtA and Hulk 101 and up.

But, I think even with Betty's and Bruce's unfaithfullness, the core of the story was Bruce and Betty. I mean she was Mr. Blue--she loved him and helped him. True life is very complex but I'm mainly glad that Jones brought Betty back. That was most important. I'd even like to see Talbot brought back just so I can see him cower and hear him scream.

[Steadfast]

But, I think even with Betty's and Bruce's unfaithfullness, the core of the story was Bruce and Betty. I mean she was Mr. Blue--she loved him and helped him. True life is very complex but I'm mainly glad that Jones brought Betty back. That was most important. I'd even like to see Talbot brought back just so I can see him cower and hear him scream.

Funny... I thought the core of the story was an unbelievable convoluted conspiracy plot, with no one acting in character, that in the end was a recycled plot from the 1970's with the Leader wanting Hulk's body.

Sorry. I didn't see the love... by either "Betty", or Jones for the character of the Hulk.

[stealthwise]

Funny... I thought the core of the story was an unbelievable convoluted conspiracy plot, with no one acting in character, that in the end was a recycled plot from the 1970's with the Leader wanting Hulk's body.

Sorry. I didn't see the love... by either "Betty", or Jones for the character of the Hulk.

I have to agree, though the run was interesting (from what I've read), it didn't feel like a Hulk comic at all, more like an Elseworlds or new Hulk tv series.

[Steadfast]

Oh.. I almost forgot. The recycled story... the Leader wanting the Hulk's body, well, it would have taken two, maybe three issues to tell... instead of the (dear god how long was it actually) two to three YEARS to tell.

[Professor Hulk]

One poster had a theory about the end of the Lou Gerhig's disease arc a couple years ago that I really enjoyed and honestly wished they'd used.


That was me! Imagine my coming here today for the first time in years to find a discussion involving my theory about a storyline at the time! :eek:

I was curious to see the reactions the climax of Hulk #80 but I just had to re-register and put in my two cents!


Where would you like to see this go? What to you want the next writer to do with Betty?

There is only one way to resolve this situation, and if I were the current Hulk writer, here's how I'd do it:

Fade in:
Bruce is in a dive hotel, when "Spy Betty" crashes through the window.

"Spy Betty": Bruce, thank god I found you! I need your help! People are after me!

Bruce (Stoicly): Hello, Betty. Good to see you. I was just thinking about how you, me and Rick went out after our wedding ceremony.

"Spy Betty": I remember, but now isn't the time to reminisce...

Bruce: Of course not. If it was, you would have remembered that we didn't go out drinking. Rick was shot during the ceremony and we took him to the hospital.

"Spy Betty": ......

Bruce: I can't believe that you actually thought I ever believed you were my Betty!

"Spy Betty" Look Bruce, I'm really sorry about pretending to be your dead wife, but I still need your help!"

Done.