Great Spidey Villain Criteria

[Cody H]

Well, after posting on the last great Spidey villain thread, I started thinking about what exactly makes are great Spidey villain. Most of us agree that guys like Ock, Green Goblin, and Venom are great villains, but why?

What is it that makes them great?

What is it that seperates a Mysterio from a Typeface?

In short, what is your criteria for a great Spidey villain?

[Maestro]

I guess it's their personalities that make them different. Anyone can make a one-dimensional villain like Venom and Carnage.

[Gaz]

I guess it's their personalities that make them different. Anyone can make a one-dimensional villain like Venom and Carnage.
Venom can actually be interesting, it's lazy writing that makes him one-dimensional.

[cable guy]

Venom can actually be interesting, it's lazy writing that makes him one-dimensional.

Exactly.

Venom was, and can be a great character again.

[Dark Soul # 7]

I always look what kind of relationship they have with Spider-man, the deeper it goes the better they are. Or at least it is so for alot of villains.
And that they´re not overused.

[onizuka]

i like my villains to be unique. there has to be something that sets them apart from anyone else, even if ultimately the villain in quesiton is not even that successful.

thats why villains like Venom work so well. he was a dark Spidey. he was everything Spidey was, but he lived on the other side of the fence. it's when you start messing around with a great formula like that is when you find yourself in trouble. not that i'm saying things should never change. i just prefer things to be built on, and only rebooted if the character is really going no where.

[AlanScott606]

I always thought that they messed up with Venom by having him team up with Spider-Man to much.

Venom worked for me best as someone who hated Spider-Man and would do almost anything to kill him but wasn't out to just be a criminal.

Venom can be the lethal protector but he still needs to have that burning hatred so that if he walks up on a Green Goblin, Spidey fight he would jump on the Goblin to make sure that he (Venom) is the one who kills Spider-Man.

[Alan2099]

There are quite a few things a villian needs to reach greatness.

They need to have a gimic that stands out.
Remeber that what's -his-name guy from Bryne's chapter One who had Suprman abilites? I don't remember him either.

They need a good name.
Master Of Vengenace is too long. The Spot is too dumb. RavenbloodClaw is trying too hard. (I made that last one up, I hope.)

They need to be original.
Do you care about the 34th person to be Green Goblin or Lady Octopus? How about The Squid? Even Puma comes across somewhere inbetween Sabretooth and Kraven.

They need to be able to match their hero somehow.
Spider-man fights everday Joes with power of scientists that get into accidents. He has no buisness dealing with mystics. that's Dr. Strange's job. Mutant Racists are a job for the X-men. Aliens warlods are the Fantastic Four territory. Thor handles evil gods.

Somehow I don't expect Morlun to ever make into the elite of Spidey's rogues.

You need to be able to take them seriously.
Some characters are jokes and the reader knows it. The Spot, Kangaroo, White Rabbit, these are all fun characters. They're not great but they're fun.

The problem is when you get awful characters and are expected to take them seriously. Type-face, I'm looking at you.


They need to have a neat visual.
You should be able to look at a character and tell whot hey are and what they do. Equualy important is the ability to look cool while doing it.

They need a personality and motivation.
Give them character qwirks and reasons for doing what they do. Nobody cares about a villian that's just doing evil because he says he's evil.

[Mister Mets]

I always look what kind of relationship they have with Spider-man, the deeper it goes the better they are. Or at least it is so for alot of villains.
And that they´re not overused.

Does making a villain over-used make him a bad villain.
Was Doctor Octopus a bad villain when he was appearing in Spectacular Spider-Man, Ultimate Six, and two mini series?

Great villains are the result of some (and maybe all of the following criteria.)

Original Powers...
Doctor Octopus
Sandman

Unique Motivations....
Kraven wants to hunt Spider-Man
Fusion hates Spider-MAn because he blames Spider-MAn for his son's death.
Curt Connors just wanted to help amputees.

Great deeds....
Kraven buried Spider-Man.
The Green Goblin abducted, and killed Gwen Stacy.

Unique ethical dilemnas....
Curt Connors isn't in control of the Lizard (Spectacular Spider-Man #13 notwithstanding.) Any injuries the Lizard receives could hurt an innocent family man.
The Green Goblin was Peter's friend's father.

Original Plots....
Mysterio tries to drive Spider-Man insane.
The Vulture battles Blackie Drago

Great creators....
Stan Lee & Steve Ditko created the Chameleon, the VUlture, Doctor OCtopus, Sandman, The Lizard, Electro, the Enforcers, Mysterio, the Green Goblin, Kraven, the Scorpion, the Spider Slayer, and more.
Stan Lee & Jon Romita Sr created Shocker, Rhino, and Kingpin
Roger Stern created the Hobgoblin
David Michelline, and Tood Mcfarlane created Venom
Paul Jenkins created Fusion.

Lots of writers, and artists use them....
Doctor Octopus has appeared in stories written by Stan Lee, Gerry Conway, JMS, Bendis, Paul Jenkins, Brian K Vaughan and more, and drawn by Steve Ditko, Jon Romita Sr, Gil Kane, Erik Larsen, Mark Buckingham, Mark Bagley, and more.
The Vulture has appeared in stories written by Stan Lee, JM Dematteis, Roger Stern, Paul Jenkins, Mark Millar, and more, and drawn by Steve Ditko, Jon Romita Sr, Sal Buscema, Terry Dodson, and more.

Crossover Potential...
Sandman has fought the Fantastic Four on his own, and as part of the Frightful Four.
Doctor Octopus has fought the Fantastic Four (in the very memoral #267), the Incredible Hulk, and Daredevil.
Kingpin has become Daredevil's greatest foe.
Electro, and Mysterio had key battles against Daredevil.
The Rhino's fought the Hulk. A lot.
The Chameleon has fought Iron Man, and the hulk in classic Silver Age tales.
You could just imagine a cool Hulk-Lizard fight.

Bad stories can still be told with great villains, as long as the villains have great stories to fall back on.

[Artemis1]

LOOKS: The villain needs to looks like a true villain. They need too look fittingly cool.
Good Examples:
Green Goblin
Venom
Hobgoblin

Bad Examples:
Kangaroo
Grizzley
Walrus
White Rabbit


NAME: The name needs to be striking, yet following the character's looks.
Good Examples:
Green Goblin
Venom
Dr. Octopus
Electro

Bad Examples:
The Spot
The Fabulous Frog Man
White Rabbit


LINK: I like a villain with a link to Spiderman. It makes the battles seem more high staked.
Good Examples:
Green Goblin 1(Good friend/Father of Peter's best bud)
Green Goblin 2(Peter's best friend)
Dr. Octopus(An idol of Peter's)
Lizard(Ally to Spiderman and Peter)

Bad Examples:
Pity("Long lost sister")
The Thousand(Bully of Peter)


WEAPONS/POWERS: The abilities of characters along with the weapons are special to the character. The powers they have can make them interesting or the reason why they are a threat.
Good Examples:
Lizard
Dr. Octopus
Green Goblin
Venom
Carnage

Bad Examples:
Walrus
Kangaroo
Big Wheel
Rocket Racer
White Rabbit
Montana


ORIGIN: It's neat to know where the character came from, how they got their abilities or weapons, and who they are.
Good Examples:
Dr. Octopus
Lizard

Bad Examples:
Rhino


BOOST: Why they do what they do makes them more than 2-D.
Good Examples:
Mysterio
Kraven
Green Goblin 1
Green Goblin 2
Dr. Octopus

Bad Examples:
Vulture
Big Wheel


THREAT: I like it if they could be a threat to almost any superhero, especially their own.
Good Examples:
Electro
Sandman
Green Goblin 1
Venom

Bad Examples:
Fabulous Frog Man
The Spot
Green Goblin 3
Kangaroo


CROSSOVERS: It's cool when villains are great in crossovers.
Good Examples:
Sandman
Dr. Octopus
Electro
Mysterio
Kingpin
Rhino

Bad Examples:
Enforcers


STORYLINES: Much depends on how good their story lines are.
Good Examples:
Kraven
Green Goblin 1
Green Goblin 2
Dr. Octopus

Bad Examples:
Carnage
Venom

[chicainery]

Having green and/or purple in their costume helps too, apparently.

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[chicainery]

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[chicainery]

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[Artemis1]

Whoa. Didn't notice.

[Will.S]

Yeah, that green motif on nearly all of his villains is odd.

He needs more differently colored villains to balance that out like with Shocker, Hobgoblin, Venom, Morbius, Rhino and Carnage.

[Cody H]

Yup, the green and purple were in during the 60s, and to a lesser extent, the 70s I guess. Also, given that 9 of the villains above are from the 60s, I'll add longevity to the list of criteria.

[Swiz]

a villian needs to look and be badass. Also it needs to have the capablity of defeating spidey cause i hate pussy villians who do stupid stuff. My example of a villian would be an intelligent villian with some cool powers. Also they need to be powerful and stand out. There could be one that sucks the powers out of every super-hero but this is just my idea

[chicainery]

a villian needs to look and be badass. Also it needs to have the capablity of defeating spidey cause i hate pussy villians who do stupid stuff. My example of a villian would be an intelligent villian with some cool powers. Also they need to be powerful and stand out. There could be one that sucks the powers out of every super-hero but this is just my idea

I disagree. I like villains who do stupid stuff.

(White Rabbit (http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/white_rabbit.html) anyone? -- seriously, anyone???)

[Prowler]

My criteria:
1) some kind of link to Spider-Man, as in a reason to hate him, former friend, former mentor, etc.
2) unique powers/skill sets
3) intriguing personality
4) defining story- Kraven's Last Hunt, Death of Gwen Stacy, *gasp*, Clone Saga (both parts)
5) have to make me believe they can beat/kill Spider-man. Morlun is a perfect recent example. JMS made me truly believe that this guy could kill Spidey. I haven't felt that way since the first Venom appearance.

[1HELLBOY]

My criteria:
1) some kind of link to Spider-Man, as in a reason to hate him, former friend, former mentor, etc.
2) unique powers/skill sets
3) intriguing personality
4) defining story- Kraven's Last Hunt, Death of Gwen Stacy, *gasp*, Clone Saga (both parts)
5) have to make me believe they can beat/kill Spider-man. Morlun is a perfect recent example. JMS made me truly believe that this guy could kill Spidey. I haven't felt that way since the first Venom appearance.

sounds like Venom to me lol...the Todd McFalane(sp?) Venom, but Venom nonetheless