New Avengers #4 - 3 page Preview with spoilers

[Jake V]

http://www.popcultureshock.com/reviews.php?id=3990

We get three pages of talking that basically picks up EXACTLY where #3 left off. Spidey makes a clone joke AND a Champions joke, and Iron Man tells off SHIELD. Fun stuff.

Enjoy.

[Geggy Tah]

Does this mean the issue is coming out this Wednesday? Man, this series is so frigin' late it's starting to piss me off!

[Neolucifer]

Oh yeah fun stuff :D !!!

Cap : Then can you verify for yourself , that a i have full champion license .

Spidey : Oh no ! i am not joining the Champions !

Cap :It means my friend , that i have the authority to assemble any team i see fit to go on any mission i see fit

Spidey : Yeah ? I have clones .

:D :D

[thik_3rd]

nothing special.

[SabrinaMorrell]

Loved it...especially Spidey's 'Champions' and 'clones' lines...
Bendis is slowly getting into the skins of these characters and I can't wait to get the book...

[1HELLBOY]

that Champions/Clones exchange was hilarious, man it was funny, i can't wait for this to come out. I myself don't mind the lateness, just as long as i get it

[Expletive Deleted]

Man, PopCultureShock is slow today.

[olympichero62]

Gotta love new avengers. Spideys always great. cap and iron man too.

[1HELLBOY]

Iron Man in this scenario was just completely badass, but badass in that sort of soft-spoken way, you know what I'm sayin? He just never lost his cool, kept a level head, and knew EXACTLY what he was talkin about and what he wanted to happen, just awesome

[olympichero62]

thats ironman. the badass of the team. i love ironman.

[Kevinroc]

Man, PopCultureShock is slow today.

I blame the "Countdown to Infinite Crisis" preview.

[HartyPotter]

dem's a good preview. Can't wait til it's out. I laughed aloud at the Champions/clones exchange too :)

[Brian R]

Does Finch have to re-use panels this often? It happens in every issue so far, I have never seen another artist do this so frequently.

[Jake V]

It's a Bendis thing. In his scripts, he often gives directions like "Panel 4: Same as panel 2" or something.

I guess it's cinematic. Or something.

But it isn't Finch.

[Brian R]

It's a Bendis thing. In his scripts, he often gives directions like "Panel 4: Same as panel 2" or something.

I guess it's cinematic. Or something.

But it isn't Finch.

Yeah, I have heard that too, but couldnt he at least slightly modify them, so it doesnt appear to be an exact duplicate? And if it is purely Bendis, then why hasnt anyone at Marvel told him to quit doing that, it makes the artist look lazy as hell.

[HartyPotter]

eh, reusing panels fine as long as it doesn't hurt the story. Happens all the time in Invincible, and that's a great read. I guess it's a little lazy, but they're on deadlines.

[Paradox]

Actually, yeah, to get the effect they want, you DO have to use the exact same panel. Like with the special agent, the whole point is that she's sitting stock-still scowling and fuming as they talk to her.

That said, I agree that it's an overused bit.

[Will.S]

Finally, the preview!

Good stuff, I liked seeing Cap, Iron Man and crew put that S.H.I.E.L.D agent in her place. Total ownage. Spiderman was also great during his exchange.

[Joey]

preview looks good but Spiderwoman looks like she's busted her spine in two on the cover :D

did we really need T AND A :rolleyes:

[SabrinaMorrell]

NAh....she is extraordinarily flexible...she is Spider-Woman for chrissakes! ;)

[Master Darque]

Yeah ....and you'd figger Marvel'd be like " Hey ...we're paying for the same damn panel 15 times ?? WtH ?? "

Iron Man in this scenario was just completely badass, but badass in that sort of soft-spoken way, you know what I'm sayin? He just never lost his cool, kept a level head, and knew EXACTLY what he was talkin about and what he wanted to happen, just awesome
I agree . My respect went up a few notches for Tony ....

[Captain Shady]

Just for humor's sake, any time Finch is "forced" to repeat panels he should have a fly buzz through the scene or piece of drywall falling in the background.

Too much repetition burns out the effect. Once every couple of issues fine, but twice a book is too much. And they should limit it to maskless people. It's one thing to have a face hold the same pose but sometimes they do it with the costumed guys. Totally loses its effect if the face underneath the mask could be creating a totally different expression. At least tilt a head, narrow the eyes, do something.

[boolean]

How about twice in one page?

On page three the same art is used in panels four, six, and eight.
And panels seven and nine are identical as well.

So half the entire page is re-used art.

Plus, my complaint continues: Stark couldn't afford continue to support the Avengers in Avengers: Finale, but here he's got a gigantic skyscraper?

[boolean]

And the dialogue:
"Yeah, um, I'm going to hang up on you now."
"Not really interested in outside help. So, thank--"

So Special Agent Hill, Acting Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. is what, sixteen?

Has anybody even heard of her before? Or is she a creation of Bendis'?

What did happen to Nick Fury? He seems fine over in Captain America.

What happened to Sharon Carter, "Dum-Dum" Dugan, G.W. Bridge and all the over pre-existing, higher-ranking, and more experienced S.H.I.E.L.D. agents?

Or do they not matter, as they aren't being written by Bendis?

[tricksterpup]

hmmm.. imagine that, more talking heads..

[HartyPotter]

Plus, my complaint continues: Stark couldn't afford continue to support the Avengers in Avengers: Finale, but here he's got a gigantic skyscraper?

Well, first of all he can't pay any of the Avengers, and the tower was in the works for a long time, and just finished construction. The Avengers base on the top three floors was simply supposed to be Tony's new home until he decided to let the Avengers use it. So he didn't use any new money to make the hq.

[pureclint]

My guess is on Hill she is in charge of the Super Human division (hard to tell on the preview it is a bit blurry) so she is acting head right now due to the Raft Break out.

Tony was very reminicent of EMH, which is cool with me Casey did a good job on him and Thor (the others not so good). Bendis seems to be getting in the groove with Cap as his cAp dialogue is finally coming up to par and Spidey rocked as usual.

I also find it funny that people are talking about deadlines and reusing panels as it makes the artist look lazy while we are talking about a Finch book. I would have figured reusing panels would have helped Finch get his crap out on time or maybe give him 10 minutes to look up some characters costumes or just plain who they are!

Piledriver and Jigsaw say HI!

[Neolucifer]

So Special Agent Hill, Acting Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. is what, sixteen?

Has anybody even heard of her before? Or is she a creation of Bendis'?

What did happen to Nick Fury? He seems fine over in Captain America.

What happened to Sharon Carter, "Dum-Dum" Dugan, G.W. Bridge and all the over pre-existing, higher-ranking, and more experienced S.H.I.E.L.D. agents?

The way it sound in the preview something happened to Fury . Maybe its events of secret war #4 and/or future Wolverine issues

[olympichero62]

Why does Spidey have to be so funny? WHY?

You know what, I think for all the pain and suffering that we've endured waiting for New Avengers #4 they should give us New Avengers #5 the very next week instead of waiting another month.

[Doom Hammer]

Plus, my complaint continues: Stark couldn't afford continue to support the Avengers in Avengers: Finale, but here he's got a gigantic skyscraper?

Alright, I've heard this complaint enough times.

Bendis EXPLAINS THE PRESENCE of the skscraper in the last issue. It was a long-term project Tony was working on, and he was going to use the top three floors as his new home. He sacrificed that space so the New Avengers had a place to meet and live.

It's construction went into effect BEFORE he lost a huge chunka' change, and was finished shortly thereafter.

It's not that hard to understand.

[olympichero62]

In New Avengers #3 it states that the Stark Towers were Est. 2005

In New Avengers #4 it states that the Stark Towers were Est. 2004

Hmmm.....

[jade_nova]

Oh yeah fun stuff :D !!!

Cap : Then can you verify for yourself , that a i have full champion license .

Spidey : Oh no ! i am not joining the Champions !

Cap :It means my friend , that i have the authority to assemble any team i see fit to go on any mission i see fit

Spidey : Yeah ? I have clones .

:D :D

I don't get it. So this means that Captain America can draft anyone he wants at any time. :confused:

[Jake V]

Yeah, that's what it means.

What's not to get?

[Neolucifer]

It seems to be the case . And might explain how the avengers could so easily get a few controversial members in his previous incarnation .

[Karl J. Barnes]

Agent Hill sure has a sour puss...

[BlackKnight]

Alright, I've heard this complaint enough times.

Bendis EXPLAINS THE PRESENCE of the skscraper in the last issue. It was a long-term project Tony was working on, and he was going to use the top three floors as his new home. He sacrificed that space so the New Avengers had a place to meet and live.

It's construction went into effect BEFORE he lost a huge chunka' change, and was finished shortly thereafter.

It's not that hard to understand.


And now to poke the hole into your logic, why if he gave the tower to the New Avengers did not just give it to the Orginal team in the when the mansion was destroyed.
Sorry just makes no sense.

[Neolucifer]

I personally always thought that iron man searched an excuse to drop the avengers , after the events of DA .

He still got a huge load of money , hasnt cheapened his armor in any , lately even funded that spidey pal's research on vibranium in the "skin deep" Amazing spidey JMS arc .

I even got the vibe that he wasnt thrilled when cap talked about a new team , yet Cap enthusiam's made him join again .

[BlackKnight]

I personally always thought that iron man searched an excuse to drop the avengers , after the events of DA .

He still got a huge load of money , hasnt cheapened his armor in any , lately even funded that spidey pal's research on vibranium in the "skin deep" Amazing spidey JMS arc .

I even got the vibe that he wasnt thrilled when cap talked about a new team , yet Cap enthusiam's made him join again .

Hmm he didn't seem very thrilled, and well if the reason was that Iron Man just wanted to quit the Avengers, well that is just sort of cheesy. Truthfully it is just another hole in the swiss cheese that has been Disassembled and NA so far in my opinion.

[bjtrdff]

The money was inferred in Avengers Finale, if a little common sense is used.

Tony has a very public freakout, and a lot of costly damage to something not directly involved with his company.


As the chairman/part owner of a company with stockholders, and as someone who depends on public perception a lot, Tony didnt feel like he could continue on the same path he was going...that is, he felt that to sink more money into a non-company project, given the surrent status of his image, could affect the jobs of his employees, which he didn't want to risk.

Ideally, yes there could have been a different explanation, but I haven't heard one yet that made as much sense, and still allowed for the formation of a new team, which was the ultimately goal after all. Sometimes you need to suspend your disbelief for things like that just like you need to suspend it when you read about how people exposed to radiation inexplicably get powers instead of leukemia.

[BlackKnight]

The money was inferred in Avengers Finale, if a little common sense is used.

Tony has a very public freakout, and a lot of costly damage to something not directly involved with his company.


As the chairman/part owner of a company with stockholders, and as someone who depends on public perception a lot, Tony didnt feel like he could continue on the same path he was going...that is, he felt that to sink more money into a non-company project, given the surrent status of his image, could affect the jobs of his employees, which he didn't want to risk.

Ideally, yes there could have been a different explanation, but I haven't heard one yet that made as much sense, and still allowed for the formation of a new team, which was the ultimately goal after all. Sometimes you need to suspend your disbelief for things like that just like you need to suspend it when you read about how people exposed to radiation inexplicably get powers instead of leukemia.


I think my point is that there really is no good explination, and certain not one supplied in the comic.. Once again, if the fans have to come up with explination and excuses for some of the most fundemental things in a comic, then there is a problem with the comic.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

I think my point is that there really is no good explination, and certain not one supplied in the comic.. Once again, if the fans have to come up with explination and excuses for some of the most fundemental things in a comic, then there is a problem with the comic.

Well, another issue, another disappointment, eh? ;)
I think I really need to stop buying such a crappy book that has not given me any enjoyment in 4 issues...
What do you think ,BK? :D

[BlackKnight]

Well, another issue, another disappointment, eh? ;)
I think I really need to stop buying such a crappy book that has not given me any enjoyment in 4 issues...
What do you think ,BK? :D

I think you were told something about banning if started this up again, that is what I think..

Thanks for playing.

[Gaz]

I think my point is that there really is no good explination, and certain not one supplied in the comic.. Once again, if the fans have to come up with explination and excuses for some of the most fundemental things in a comic, then there is a problem with the comic.
IIRC, wasn't it mentioned in YA that the charity that funds the team was broke? If that's so, then he can't bankrupt himself just to fund the team for a few months.
I understand you dislike the book, but I'm sure even Busiek had plot holes in his run, heck, Stan left ones so big you can fly a quinjet through. :p

[BlackKnight]

IIRC, wasn't it mentioned in YA that the charity that funds the team was broke? If that's so, then he can't bankrupt himself just to fund the team for a few months.
I understand you dislike the book, but I'm sure even Busiek had plot holes in his run, heck, Stan left ones so big you can fly a quinjet through. :p

Not trying to fight here, but if he can't bankrupt himself to fund the Avengers how is he funding the New Avengers. Why would he have not just offered the tower as a alternative to the Mansion to the Avengers in the first place.. See my point.

[Neolucifer]

Hmm he didn't seem very thrilled, and well if the reason was that Iron Man just wanted to quit the Avengers, well that is just sort of cheesy.

Well i can live with that cheesiness . This is a cowardly way to quit the avengers , but hey why should everything super people do be perfect :D ?
Now that stark is deeply involved in the new team , i wouldnt be surprise to see him fund them quite soon . I think he even kinda started already by giving a "free fund pass" to a spidey pal .

I think "my" explanation still works and i've seen more obvious and important plot holes ,in works i dont think you dislike .

Besides who knows , if what looks like an apparent hole was kept this way , because the issue will be dealt in a future story ?? Wouldnt be the first time someone complain about something that wasnt forgotten and overlooked , but supposed to be brought up again from the start . ( i dunno if my english made any sense there but oh well :D ....)

[tricksterpup]

Not trying to fight here, but if he can't bankrupt himself to fund the Avengers how is he funding the New Avengers. Why would he have not just offered the tower as a alternative to the Mansion to the Avengers in the first place.. See my point.
But it wouldnt BE NEW.. if they used the old place..

I still do not understand how stark's money problems effected the maria stark foundation.

[BlackKnight]

Well i can live with that cheesiness . This is a cowardly way to quit the avengers , but hey why should everything super people do be perfect :D ?
Now that stark is deeply involved in the new team , i wouldnt be surprise to see him fund them quite soon . I think he even kinda started already by giving a "free fund pass" to a spidey pal .

I think "my" explanation still works and i've seen more obvious and important plot holes ,in works i dont think you dislike .

Besides who knows , if what looks like an apparent hole was kept this way , because the issue will be dealt in a future story ?? Wouldnt be the first time someone complain about something that wasnt forgotten and overlooked , but supposed to be brought up again from the start . ( i dunno if my english made any sense there but oh well :D ....)

You made perfect sense. I don't know what plot holes you are refereing to that I don't dislike, but that is beside the point that if a fan has to explain or make excuses for something a writer does in a comic that is not a minor point then there is a problem with the writing.. You can like and that is fine, but it does not change the fact that it makes no sense that Iron Man did not offer the tower as a base for the orginal avengers but is for the new Avengers. It is a plot hole that may or may not be addressed.

[BlackKnight]

But it wouldnt BE NEW.. if they used the old place..

I still do not understand how stark's money problems effected the maria stark foundation.

I don't understand that either, but I was not going to reopen that can of worms, and on top of that we could not have the New Avengers if Iron man had offered the tower to the orginal team.

[pureclint]

I think my point is that there really is no good explination, and certain not one supplied in the comic.. Once again, if the fans have to come up with explination and excuses for some of the most fundemental things in a comic, then there is a problem with the comic.

He quit and removed Funding after a horrible experience

He got talked back into the game by Captain America and due to his responsibility for the escaped Criminals.

Explination is good enough and not made up by any of the fans as it is what happened in the book.

[tricksterpup]

I don't understand that either, but I was not going to reopen that can of worms, and on top of that we could not have the New Avengers if Iron man had offered the tower to the orginal team.
See it wouldnt be NEW if it was at the mansions. BK you are not thinking Dynamic enough here. ;) Next we need to add some Teens with some angst. :rolleyes:

[tricksterpup]

He quit and removed Funding after a horrible experience

He got talked back into the game by Captain America and due to his responsibility for the escaped Criminals.

Explination is good enough and not made up by any of the fans as it is what happened in the book.
But the Maria Stark Foundation wasn't being run by Tony Stark.. So he could not remove the funding after anything. IT was a self suffient foundation named after his mother.

[Neolucifer]

that is beside the point that if a fan has to explain or make excuses for something a writer does in a comic that is not a minor point then there is a problem with the writing...

Not IF the writer wanted it to be implied . I still feel there is no need to describe and explain everything and situation . I'm overexagerating but often i could live with a few less thoughts bubbles and "he's opening the door descriptions :D . Not giving anyone the "i'm smarter than you crap" (especially without proofs that i'm right) , but when i saw the finale i never bought the money excuse and told myself instead " he's just searching an easy exit" . That convinction only grew stronger in NA as you can see .



He quit and removed Funding after a horrible experience . He got talked back into the game by Captain America and due to his responsibility for the escaped Criminals.

Explination is good enough and not made up by any of the fans as it is what happened in the book.

My sentiment exactly . Disbanding the avengers over such a petty thing as money was imo Iron Man's way to cope with DA .

[pureclint]

But the Maria Stark Foundation wasn't being run by Tony Stark.. So he could not remove the funding after anything. IT was a self suffient foundation named after his mother.


Did he not own it? Just becuase it is run as a seperate entity does not mean it was not his right?

[BlackKnight]

See it wouldnt be NEW if it was at the mansions. BK you are not thinking Dynamic enough here. ;) Next we need to add some Teens with some angst. :rolleyes:


Wait I thought that the teen with Angst was Ultimate Spiderman, oh you mean that is suppose to be the MU Spiderman lol could have fooled me. Your right I am just to set in my ways, I expect change for a reason, not just for the sake of change.

[BlackKnight]

Did he not own it? Just becuase it is run as a seperate entity does not mean it was not his right?

A foundation is set up to support itself, not to be supported by a company, the Maria stark foundation was not run by or administrated by Tony Stark. As seen in the Avengers Anuual where the foundation reps talk to the Avengers about costs.

There are two seperate identites.

[BlackKnight]

Not IF the writer wanted it to be implied . I still feel there is no need to describe and explain everything and situation . I'm overexagerating but often i could live with a few less thoughts bubbles and "he's opening the door descriptions :D . Not giving anyone the "i'm smarter than you crap" (especially without proofs that i'm right) , but when i saw the finale i never bought the money excuse and told myself instead " he's just searching an easy exit" . That convinction only grew stronger in NA as you can see .





My sentiment exactly . Disbanding the avengers over such a petty thing as money was imo Iron Man's way to cope with DA .

And once again you made something up to fill in the large gap that the writer left, we are not talking small things here. We are talking about the major reason the Orginal team disbanded, yet for some reason that reason no longer exists when it is convinent for Bendis to have it not exist. That is called bad writing.. Again we are back to you making up explination and excuses for major plot events = not good writing.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

Why wouldn't he do this?
Why could she not do that?
How could he do that? That's not in character...

Hard questions, but pointless, IMO.
No matter what we say, the writers will do what they want, and I'm sure Bendis knows what to do with these awesome characters better than me, that's why he is writing the book and I'm not.

I love The New Avengers and the more I read, the more I want to know about them...my early hesitation about the title has been replaced by joy and anticipation each month.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

And once again you made something up to fill in the large gap that the writer left, we are not talking small things here. We are talking about the major reason the Orginal team disbanded, yet for some reason that reason no longer exists when it is convinent for Bendis to have it not exist. That is called bad writing.. Again we are back to you making up explination and excuses for major plot events = not good writing.

And again we are back to you assuming how Bendis thought-processes and choices work. ("when it is convinent for Bendis to have it not exist.")

We are also back to you expressing an opinion as if it were a FACT.
And again we are back to you bashing a book that you still buy.

Just drop the horrible book if it's so bad and has so many inconsistencies...it must be terrible to spend money on something you seem to dislike so much...

[BlackKnight]

And again we are back to you assuming how Bendis thought-processes and choices work. ("when it is convinent for Bendis to have it not exist.")

We are also back to expressing an opinion as if it were a FACT.
And again we are back to you bashing a book that you still buy.

Just drop the horrible book if it's so bad and has so many inconsistencies...

How many times are we going ot do this dance, are you looking to get banned, do you want us to both get banned.. I didn't not express it as a fact. Unless you think that everyone else is expressing things as facts to because my statements are not any different then theres.
Second I have the right to bash a book that I buy, don't buy, or burn up in a firing inferno, and it really is none of your concern.
Finally if you tell me what to do once more I will report you and I guess get us both banned.

I ask you not to start this again, I am gone to ask once more don't start this again Childofdarkness. If you have a malfunction with me we can talk about on the PM if you persist on the forum then I can only assume you are trying to flame me.

Thank you for you time.

[Neolucifer]

And once again you made something up to fill in the large gap that the writer left, we are not talking small things here. We are talking about the major reason the Orginal team disbanded, yet for some reason that reason no longer exists when it is convinent for Bendis to have it not exist. That is called bad writing.. Again we are back to you making up explination and excuses for major plot events = not good writing.

Well as you can see , to my opinion , Tony's attitude wasnt needing him to frankly say "i dont wanna do the avengers thing anymore , i'm withdrawing my money" , doing it in a implicit way was enough imo . I still think he was hiding behind the money to quits . i am not searching a way to make that explanation work , imo this is indeed has happened . Right when NA start and tony chat with cap , i'm even further convinced of it .This is not some hints digging to make a bad writing work , this is indeed what occured imo . I dont even feel it as a part of the plot needing explanations to understand it .

i Think that you are either too much saddened/angry about the old avengers and/or disliking bendis's writing (in the avengers title , not sure how you feel in others) to be objective OR i'm enjoying it too much , too not see a huge flaw like this , and be objective as well .

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

Think that you are either too much saddened/angry about the old avengers and/or disliking bendis's writing (in the avengers title , not sure how you feel in others) to be objective .

Ka-Ching! :D

[BlackKnight]

Well as you can see , to my opinion , Tony's attitude wasnt needing him to frankly say "i dont wanna do the avengers thing anymore , i'm withdrawing my money" , doing it in a implicit way was enough imo . I still think he was hiding behind the money to quits . i am not searching a way to make that explanation work , imo this is indeed has happened . Right when NA start and tony chat with cap , i'm even further convinced of it .This is not some hints digging to make a bad writing work , this is indeed what occured imo . I dont even feel it as a part of the plot needing explanations to understand it .

i Think that you are either too much saddened/angry about the old avengers and/or disliking bendis's writing (in the avengers title , not sure how you feel in others) to be objective OR i'm enjoying it too much , too not see a huge flaw like this , and be objective as well .

Look, you can make up any explination you want that fills in the gap for you, the simple fact remains that the gap is there, and your expination may or may not be what the writer intended. It can be what you think occured, but if it is not written then we do not know that is what occured. (that is a simple fact).

I think that I am saddened that a good title that had many great charaters has been taken and turned into a media blitz for the express perpose of a quick buck. Do I think some of the charaters are cool yes I like Cap, Iron Man, Spiderwoman and even Luke cage to a point. Do I think many people are blinded by the Hype of Bendis, Spidey and wolverine, yep sure do...

[BlackKnight]

i Think that you are either too much saddened/angry about the old avengers and/or disliking bendis's writing (in the avengers title , not sure how you feel in others) to be objective .

Ka-Ching! :D[/QUOTE]

I love how you just blank out the pare where he says that maybe he loves it to much to be objective as well...

Typical.

[Captain Shady]

I'm constantly amazed by debates centering on whether or not something should be explained on panel when it can simply be implied. I can't think of any literature or writing that doesn't imply more than what's simply given. Even the funny pages of the newspaper rely on assumptions by the reader. In fact, in a visual format like a movie or comic book almost everything has to be implied. Desiring to have something spelled out for you every time is a wish you are never going to have granted. Therefore, I don't think it's shoddy writing at all, it's bad reading and misguided expectations.

Granted there are some things that have to be spelled out visually or in words but Tony Stark funding or not funding the Avengers is hardly one of them. He couldn't, now maybe he can, perhaps Stark's stock doubled after the public believed he wasn't affiliated with the Avengers, perhaps he reevaluated his finances gave up his future penthouse and decided to give it a shot--but in the grand scheme of things--that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is he has a place for them to stay. That's all you need to know so that's all you are given. Whining about this is clearly just nitpicking with an agenda. Why didn't you ever complain about where the money came from to rebuild New York after every single superhero fight?

What's next, we'll have an uproar when off-panel in a group fight Spidey shoots a web that we see in a later panel trapping some villian. Do these complainers demand an explanation for the bowl of ice-cream placed in front of them by their mom: "Wait, where'd you get this from? I didn't SEE it come from the freezer? Is this really from Cows? Mother, I need to know! Spoonfeed me! .........Umm... I mean really spoonfeed me."

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

I agree that many people are blinded by BendisHype, but I also think many people are jumping on the Let'sBashBendis bandwagon.

And many others are simply too mad at the death of some of their favorite characters and the dismissal of their other faves, to try to see the new book's flaws and/or virtues objectively.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

I'm constantly amazed by debates centering on whether or not something should be explained on panel when it can simply be implied. I can't think of any literature or writing that doesn't imply more than what's simply given. Even the funny pages of the newspaper rely on assumptions by the reader. In fact, in a visual format like a movie or comic book almost everything has to be implied. Desiring to have something spelled out for you every time is wish you are never going to be granted. Therefore, I don't think it's shoddy writing at all, it's bad reading and an expectation that's never going to be gratified.

Granted there are some things that have to be spelled out visually or in words but Tony Stark funding or not funding the Avengers is hardly one of them. He couldn't, now maybe he can, perhaps Stark's stock doubled after the public believed he wasn't affiliated with the Avengers, perhaps he reevaluated his finances gave up his future penthouse and decided to give it a shot--but in the grand scheme of things--that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is he has a place for them to stay. That's all you need to know so that's all you are given. Whining about this is clearly just nitpicking with an agenda. Why didn't you ever complain about where the money came from to rebuild New York after every single superhero fight.

What's next, we'll have an uproar when off-panel in a group fight Spidey shoots a web that we see in a later panel trapping some villian. Do these complainers demand an explanation for the bowl of ice-cream placed in front of them by their mom: "Wait, where'd you get this from? I didn't SEE it come from the freezer? Is this really from Cows? Mother, I need to know! Spoonfeed me! .........Umm... I mean really spoonfeed me."


Excellent post.
You nailed it.

[BlackKnight]

I'm constantly amazed by debates centering on whether or not something should be explained on panel when it can simply be implied. I can't think of any literature or writing that doesn't imply more than what's simply given. Even the funny pages of the newspaper rely on assumptions by the reader. In fact, in a visual format like a movie or comic book almost everything has to be implied. Desiring to have something spelled out for you every time is a wish you are never going to have granted. Therefore, I don't think it's shoddy writing at all, it's bad reading and misguided expectations.

Granted there are some things that have to be spelled out visually or in words but Tony Stark funding or not funding the Avengers is hardly one of them. He couldn't, now maybe he can, perhaps Stark's stock doubled after the public believed he wasn't affiliated with the Avengers, perhaps he reevaluated his finances gave up his future penthouse and decided to give it a shot--but in the grand scheme of things--that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is he has a place for them to stay. That's all you need to know so that's all you are given. Whining about this is clearly just nitpicking with an agenda. Why didn't you ever complain about where the money came from to rebuild New York after every single superhero fight?

What's next, we'll have an uproar when off-panel in a group fight Spidey shoots a web that we see in a later panel trapping some villian. Do these complainers demand an explanation for the bowl of ice-cream placed in front of them by their mom: "Wait, where'd you get this from? I didn't SEE it come from the freezer? Is this really from Cows? Mother, I need to know! Spoonfeed me! .........Umm... I mean really spoonfeed me."


Excellent post, however I have yet to have read a good book, comic or other piece of leturature that leaves major plot points to be implied. A writer that leaves dangling plot threads or large plot holes for the reader to fill in is not good. I was taught that in college English.

Your last paragraph is in poor taste, since the idea of stark not being able to fund one team but able to fund that other is a major plot hole, not some small thing..

THere is a difference between spoonfeeding and actually telling a cohessive story that makes sense from beggining to end.

[Neolucifer]

Look, you can make up any explination you want that fills in the gap for you, the simple fact remains that the gap is there, and your expination may or may not be what the writer intended. It can be what you think occured, but if it is not written then we do not know that is what occured. (that is a simple fact).

Actually the fact is that i can at least imagine that bendis was really bad on that matter and never intended to imply anything . While you so far refuse the other possibility (in wich i believe) that it was indeed implied . With the no proof for any of our sides , the gap is only there is you refuse to believe otherwise :D

I'm constantly amazed by debates centering on whether or not something should be explained on panel when it can simply be implied. I can't think of any literature or writing that doesn't imply more than what's simply given. Even the funny pages of the newspaper rely on assumptions by the reader. In fact, in a visual format like a movie or comic book almost everything has to be implied. Desiring to have something spelled out for you every time is a wish you are never going to have granted. Therefore, I don't think it's shoddy writing at all, it's bad reading and misguided expectations.

Thank you !! Once again my thoughts explained in a better way

[BlackKnight]

I agree that many people are blinded by BendisHype, but I also think many people are jumping on the Let'sBashBendis bandwagon.

And many others are simply too mad at the death of some of their favorite characters and the dismissal of their other faves, to try to see the new book's flaws and/or virtues objectively.

What I find amusing here, is you seem to assume I jumped on the bash bendis bandwagon, when in fact one I first foudn out about him writing the Avengers I was very excited, my excitment has dwindled and dwindled.

I find that I am objective, I don't nitpick stupid things. My complaints have ranged from, why can Stark not fund one team, yet he is funding the new one, Why did Cap not contact any of the Old members when forming a new team. Serious lack of research concerning the villians used in the break-out(including the piledrive/Jigsaw thing).. Yes I have problems with spidey and caps charaterization but those are and never have been my major issues.

[tricksterpup]

I agree that many people are blinded by BendisHype, but I also think many people are jumping on the Let'sBashBendis bandwagon.

And many others are simply too mad at the death of some of their favorite characters and the dismissal of their other faves, to try to see the new book's flaws and/or virtues objectively.
Naw.. BK and I have been doing this since day 1. ;)
just put simply, we both like some of his stuff but just not this. I could care less if Hawkeye is dead or not around anymore. Sorry, I do enjoy reading the comics but if the character is written poorly, well its no sweat off of me. I just find that this book is just that, it is very lack luster and filled with Talking heads. But then again, this is probably what the Editors and the publsher wants. And well, they drove off one fan. I do not care for this style. So I stopped buying the book after issue 2. I have read a friend's book but I can save my money on other books that I do enjoy. And it is my choice.
But I do agree many are blinded by Bendis Hype and the multi variant covers that are coming out for every issue for the first 10 books?

[BlackKnight]

Actually the fact is that i can at least imagine that bendis was really bad on that matter and never intended to imply anything . While you so far refuse the other possibility (in wich i believe) that it was indeed implied . With the no proof for any of our sides , the gap is only there is you refuse to believe otherwise :D


So what you are saying is that because I don't want to have to write the story for the writer that I am somehow flawed, hmmm ok...

[Neolucifer]

I find that I am objective, I don't nitpick stupid things. My complaints have ranged from, why can Stark not fund one team, yet he is funding the new one, Why did Cap not contact any of the Old members when forming a new team.

Come on you cant honestly say you are totally objective or impartial about that matter , when we both know that cap in the past chosen people that same way than in NA , instead of seeking only among his friends and past avengers .
Of course there is a bit of nitpicking (i'll just leave the stupidity out :D)

So what you are saying is that because I don't want to have to write the story for the writer that I am somehow flawed, hmmm ok...

Ok i guess i'll stop implying stuff as well :D . I'm just saying that you aint objective like you pretend to be (nor am i for that matter)

[Karl J. Barnes]

having read the whole issue. I think that the way things are going to be done in NA are going to be different from what they used to be. The way they interogated Electro was sweet and funny though I think that Bendis needs to stop makingeverything coming out of Spiderman's mouth so jokey. He's starting to sound like a poor man's version of Blue Beetle/Booster Gold.

We also get to see how Wolverine becomes part of the New Avengers and how it ties into his own series.

Who thought Spiderwoman's bribing the re-captured villain with Etterman's donuts was perfect. Just a funny scene.

[BlackKnight]

Come on you cant honestly say you are totally objective or impartial about that matter , when we both know that cap in the past chosen people that same way than in NA , instead of seeking only among his friends and past avengers .
Of course there is a bit of nitpicking (i'll just leave the stupidity out :D)



Ok i guess i'll stop implying stuff as well :D . I'm just saying that you aint objective like you pretend to be (nor am i for that matter)

Your right Nobody can be totally objective, the first person to say they are is usually the worst offender. I think many have one or two reasons they want to like NA, so they then excuse all and any problems with it. Will I don't like the fact that Wolverine is going ot be on the team, don't like the pointless deaths and the way it was rushed to get to NA... So yes, I don't like it, but I was predisposed to dislike it before it even started like some try and say I was.

[pureclint]

A foundation is set up to support itself, not to be supported by a company, the Maria stark foundation was not run by or administrated by Tony Stark. As seen in the Avengers Anuual where the foundation reps talk to the Avengers about costs.

There are two seperate identites.

Correct but that still does not mean he can not abolish it and absorb what ever money it makes back into Stark Enterprises to help recoupe losses.

I would also like to know how it was self sustaining they sold no product and jsut constantly shelled out cash!

[Neolucifer]

Correct but that still does not mean he can not abolish it and absorb what ever money it makes back into Stark Enterprises to help recoupe losses.

I would also like to know how it was self sustaining they sold no product and jsut constantly shelled out cash!

Actually such kind of fund would be protected from the actions of even its creator . The Mariah stark fundation is its own entity i think , and even a ruined tony wouldnt change that .

[tricksterpup]

Actually such kind of fund would be protected from the actions of even its creator . The Mariah stark fundation is its own entity i think , and even a ruined tony wouldnt change that .
You are very correct, he would not have been able to touch it. If i remember the annual issue correctly, it was overseen by a group of individuals. And they questioned every Avenger on every expense they did.

[BlackKnight]

Actually such kind of fund would be protected from the actions of even its creator . The Mariah stark fundation is its own entity i think , and even a ruined tony wouldnt change that .

Exactly, so it really makes no sense that Tony says he can't fund the Avengers anymore.. *shrugs*

As for how a foundation is self sufficent, normally it is because they have millions of dollars in the stock market and in other forms of interest baring items.

[Will.S]

I find that I am objective, I don't nitpick stupid things. My complaints have ranged from, why can Stark not fund one team, yet he is funding the new one...
How is Tony funding the New Avengers again?

[BlackKnight]

How is Tony funding the New Avengers again?

Sorry bad choice of words, he is giving them his penthouse, and obvious he is building them some quinjets, since you see one in House of M... How could I ever think that was funding..
:rolleyes:

[Neolucifer]

Exactly, so it really makes no sense that Tony says he can't fund the Avengers anymore.. *shrugs*

Actually it even fuel more my belief that Tony simply fed them that lie to quit :D

Originally Posted by Will.S
How is Tony funding the New Avengers again?

Originally Posted by BlackKnight
Sorry bad choice of words, he is giving them his penthouse, and obvious he is building them some quinjets, since you see one in House of M... How could I ever think that was funding..

Well again just see how he gave his agreement to an expensive scientific project , just because the researcher said he was a pal of peter parker , and that peter would supervise him in Amazing spidey (Skin deep) .

And also all the other mentioned tech stuff .

[BlackKnight]

Actually it even fuel more my belief that Tony simply fed them that lie to quit :D


Well again just see how he gave his agreement to an expensive scientific project , just because the researcher said he was a pal of peter parker , and that peter would supervise him in Amazing spidey (Skin deep) .

And also all the other mentioned tech stuff .

Neolucifer,
I see where you idea is coming from, I just don't think that Bendis's writing is that, how do I put this, deep I guess would be the word, sometimes what is there was all that was intended, and sometimes what is there simple is not enough.

[Neolucifer]

Oh i'm not saying that bendis gave JMS the idea . But if there was such a "iron man wont fund avengers anymore coz no money left" rule , i dont think even a crappy editor would let it fly , and that JMS would write it that way .

[Will.S]

Sorry bad choice of words, he is giving them his penthouse, and obvious he is building them some quinjets, since you see one in House of M... How could I ever think that was funding..
:rolleyes:
Giving him his penthouse isn't the same situation as when they were on the Avengers Mansion where it was being paid for whereas the Stark Towers have other purposes in mind other than the top floors where this "clubhouse" meets.

And there's only 1 Quinjet shown, we don't know how they aquired it yet since House of M is more advanced.

[BlackKnight]

Giving him his penthouse isn't the same situation as when they were on the Avengers Mansion where it was being paid for whereas the Stark Towers have other purposes in mind other than the top floors where this "clubhouse" meets.

And there's only 1 Quinjet shown, we don't know how they aquired it yet since House of M is more advanced.

Except that Beast say it is the new Avengers quinjet.. Also why couldn't stark have given the orginal Avengers the use of the Towers. Makes you wonder.

[Jake V]

Sorry bad choice of words, he is giving them his penthouse, and obvious he is building them some quinjets, since you see one in House of M... How could I ever think that was funding..
:rolleyes:
It's not the same thing. If the New Avengers weren't around, that penthouse and the quinjet would still be there. If I let you borrow my car, or if I give you a ride somewhere, it's not like I'm buying you a car. I'm letting you use something that I already have because I'm a nice guy.

Tony Stark isn't FUNDING the New Avengers. He's letting them use stuff he already has.

[tricksterpup]

How is Tony funding the New Avengers again?
He has Wolverine and Spiderman doing a Lemon aid stand.
Gosh I just picture Chris Giarusso doing this as a comic.
http://www.chrisgcomics.com/

[BlackKnight]

Oh i'm not saying that bendis gave JMS the idea . But if there was such a "iron man wont fund avengers anymore coz no money left" rule , i dont think even a crappy editor would let it fly , and that JMS would write it that way .

Sorry this is a little confusing, I mean that is exactly what happened.

[Neolucifer]

Anyway i think that with issue #4 i'm discovering what is imo the flaw of NA so far : The Art .

Dont misunderstand its often beautiful . But here we got a writer using decompressed style , and Finch that re-use and abuse of his panel . What imo could slip out , maybe undetected with another writer , here is particularly highlighted . When i precisely look at the pages of the preview , i see no prob from the writing , quite funny as we said already , but the famous talking head syndrome .

I hope NA will get someone else after House of M , maybe Coipel !

[BlackKnight]

Anyway i think that with issue #4 i'm discovering what is imo the flaw of NA so far : The Art .

Dont misunderstand its often beautiful . But here we got a writer using decompressed style , and Finch that re-use and abuse of his panel . What imo could slip out , maybe undetected with another writer , here is particularly highlighted . When i precisely look at the pages of the preview , i see no prob from the writing , quite funny as we said already , but the famous talking head syndrome .

I hope NA will get someone else after House of M , maybe Coipel !

NA has a different artist for 7-9, now if it could get a different writer, and let bendis just do something like A MK Champions with his favorite charaters then everone would have been happy.

[Jake V]

NA has a different artist for 7-9, now if it could get a different writer, and let bendis just do something like A MK Champions with his favorite charaters then everone would have been happy.
Heh. You aren't everyone.

[Neolucifer]

let bendis just do something like A MK Champions with his favorite charaters then everone would have been happy.

Pfehh :D i'll just reply with this :D :

Cap : Then can you verify for yourself , that a i have full champion license .

Spidey : Oh no ! i am not joining the Champions !

[BlackKnight]

Pfehh :D i'll just reply with this :D :

LOL...
You got to admit, that if Bendis had wrote a series with his favorites, that was not avengers and that Marvel had put a big writer like PAD, or Casey on the AVengers and they had just not split the team that everone would have probably have been happy.

[BlackKnight]

Heh. You aren't everyone.

Hey man,

Nope sorry, I will refrain from giving you hairs to split from now one.

[Kirk G]

Ideally, yes there could have been a different explanation, ..... [but this one] still allowed for the formation of a new team, which was the ultimately goal after all. Sometimes you need to suspend your disbelief for things like that ....

I think you've just hit the nail on the head.
I think this is the real reason it was done...to allow for the creation of a new team with new operating mode and mission...

"Ya,know, Spanky.... let's go off on a different direction..." :eek:

[BlackKnight]

I think you've just hit the nail on the head.
I think this is the real reason it was done...to allow for the creation of a new team with new operating mode and mission...

"Ya,know, Spanky.... let's go off on a different direction..." :eek:

Hmmm, you mean the writer just did it so he could write a new team.. what is that not what I said many posts ago.

[tricksterpup]

Ah, only if the book could be written as clever as this..

http://www.chrisgcomics.com/images/GSMM9.gif

[Jake V]

...and that has what to do with New Avengers?


Oh, wait, you were trying to be funny?


Keep trying.

[tricksterpup]

It has spider man in it.. :rolleyes:

[Jake V]

Keep trying.

[BlackKnight]

Keep trying.

Just because you find it unamusing does not mean others don't.

Good one Trick.

[tricksterpup]

hows this for the hawkeye fans. :D
http://www.marvel.com/comics/bullpenbits/bits/bit62.jpg

[Jake V]

... and this is why he's dead.

[BlackKnight]

... and this is why he's dead.

You really just have no sense of humour do you... *sigh*

[Jake V]

Humour? Not really.

Humor? Yeah, I've got one of those.


:D

[tricksterpup]

... and this is why he's dead.
yeesh.. your being a troll today..

[BlackKnight]

Humour? Not really.

Humor? Yeah, I've got one of those.


:D

yes, and if you found that funny, then I can see why you also thought the letter pages in NA are amusing to... :rolleyes:

[Jake V]

Whats not amusing about making fun of angry fanboys?

[BlackKnight]

Whats not amusing about making fun of angry fanboys?

You realize that you are a fanboy, and second, making fun of your consumer is stupid not funny.

[Jake V]

Yeah, but I'm not angry that writers and editors aren't hung up on unimportant minutiae or they aren't catering to my every whim.

Sales of Avengers books doubled twice since Bendis and Finch took over. Marvel isn't interested in losing a few angry nerds.

[BlackKnight]

Yeah, but I'm not angry that writers and editors aren't hung up on unimportant minutiae or they aren't catering to my every whim.

Sales of Avengers books doubled twice since Bendis and Finch took over. Marvel isn't interested in losing a few angry nerds.

*sigh* so money gives them the right to be rude..... If that is really true then the worlds values are screwed up.

Oh by the way, you realize those are artifically inflated sales, that don't take into account how many copies are just lieing around collecting dust on store shelves.

[Jake V]

*sigh* so money gives them the right to be rude..... If that is really true then the worlds values are screwed up.
Its the way of the world. Get used to it or get stepped on.

Oh by the way, you realize those are artifically inflated sales, that don't take into account how many copies are just lieing around collecting dust on store shelves.
The reason Marvel publishes comic books is to make money. Not to make you or anyone else happy. The sooner you figure this out, the better off we'll all be.

[BlackKnight]

Its the way of the world. Get used to it or get stepped on.


The reason Marvel publishes comic books is to make money. Not to make you or anyone else happy. The sooner you figure this out, the better off we'll all be.

LOL, man I am sorry, but if you think that is the way of the world, you must be a very lonley man.

As for your second paragragph I don't see what it has to do with Artifically inhanced sales and the fact that there are proabaly lots of extra copies of NA sitting on stands. Also did you notice that sales went down 90K with issues 2, I bet they go down again with issue three and four, and someday when marvel stops using the variant cover gimmick to increase the sales, we might actually see what the real sales would be. Until then I take Marvel's sales figures as what they are meaneless except to marvels accountant.

[Jake V]

LOL, man I am sorry, but if you think that is the way of the world, you must be a very lonley man.
Don't worry about me, I've got my stuff together.

As for your second paragragph I don't see what it has to do with Artifically inhanced sales and the fact that there are proabaly lots of extra copies of NA sitting on stands. Also did you notice that sales went down 90K with issues 2, I bet they go down again with issue three and four, and someday when marvel stops using the variant cover gimmick to increase the sales, we might actually see what the real sales would be. Until then I take Marvel's sales figures as what they are meaneless except to marvels accountant.
The sales, artificial or not, are sales. This isn't a popularity contest, they aren't interested in being #1 on Diamonds chart, they want to make money. And they're doing a very good job.

[BlackKnight]

Don't worry about me, I've got my stuff together.


The sales, artificial or not, are sales. This isn't a popularity contest, they aren't interested in being #1 on Diamonds chart, they want to make money. And they're doing a very good job.

LOL, man I don't worry about people on boards..
Second, I think if you actually read my post you would notice that I said the only thing that sales matter to are the marvel accountents.
As for it being a popularity contest, well if it is not, then what is it. They want the comic to be popular to make money. Sounds like a popularity contest to me. *shurgs*.

As for being good at it. LOL that is just amazingly funny.

[Gaz]

NA has a different artist for 7-9, now if it could get a different writer, and let bendis just do something like A MK Champions with his favorite charaters then everone would have been happy.
Simple, it's easier to push an accepted name and concept with a star writer than to have a new series, no matter how good, float on it's own. Look at Runaways, great concept, awesome writer, no sales for 18 issues.
Alias was fantastic but didn't sell fantastically.
I appreciate that you dislike Bendis, or at least with the idea of him shaking up a favorite title of yours in this manner, but it seems pointless to levy the same criticisms which elicit the same responses time and time again, turning any discussion of his work into a flame war.

[Gaz]

LOL, man I don't worry about people on boards..
Second, I think if you actually read my post you would notice that I said the only thing that sales matter to are the marvel accountents.
As for it being a popularity contest, well if it is not, then what is it. They want the comic to be popular to make money. Sounds like a popularity contest to me. *shurgs*.

As for being good at it. LOL that is just amazingly funny.
Uh,sales = money = salaries = keeping company afloat. Everyone has a vested interest in sales. That'slike saying bad movies aren't made with money in mind. I'm sure someone thought it was a good idea to make AvP, but the guys in charges decided against Alien 5 because AvP would make more money.

[BlackKnight]

Uh,sales = money = salaries = keeping company afloat. Everyone has a vested interest in sales. That'slike saying bad movies aren't made with money in mind. I'm sure someone thought it was a good idea to make AvP, but the guys in charges decided against Alien 5 because AvP would make more money.

Your right and that is why the comic has Wolverine, and Spiderman in it, why it has variant covers through at least issue 9 and a very hyped writer and artist.

This all makes for assume sales in the short run, who knows what it will do in the long run, but is it quaility work *shurgs*... Guess I care about quality sometimes. my bad

[Jake V]

LOL, man I don't worry about people on boards..
Second, I think if you actually read my post you would notice that I said the only thing that sales matter to are the marvel accountents.
As for it being a popularity contest, well if it is not, then what is it. They want the comic to be popular to make money. Sounds like a popularity contest to me. *shurgs*.

As for being good at it. LOL that is just amazingly funny.
A comic doesn't necessarily need to be popular to make money. I recall the retarded X-Force revival comic making money despite it being a piece of crap and everyone hating it.

[BlackKnight]

Simple, it's easier to push an accepted name and concept with a star writer than to have a new series, no matter how good, float on it's own. Look at Runaways, great concept, awesome writer, no sales for 18 issues.
Alias was fantastic but didn't sell fantastically.
I appreciate that you dislike Bendis, or at least with the idea of him shaking up a favorite title of yours in this manner, but it seems pointless to levy the same criticisms which elicit the same responses time and time again, turning any discussion of his work into a flame war.

and before you start saying that I cause flame wars, perhaps you should look at the others responding to me, and have them accept some responsiblity to.. I love how people just want to blame the person with a different point of view for everything. :rolleyes:

[tricksterpup]

A comic doesn't necessarily need to be popular to make money. I recall the retarded X-Force revival comic making money despite it being a piece of crap and everyone hating it.
And this time it wasnt poly bagged and no cards.. whatsup with that?

[BlackKnight]

A comic doesn't necessarily need to be popular to make money. I recall the retarded X-Force revival comic making money despite it being a piece of crap and everyone hating it.

Didn't it sell like around 30K or so, according to marvel that is a cancelation line... Don't see that as a lot. Could be wrong on the numbers since I am working from memory.

However, a comic that is popular is the ones that make the most money. So once again a popularity contest.

[Gaz]

Your right and that is why the comic has Wolverine, and Spiderman in it, why it has variant covers through at least issue 9 and a very hyped writer and artist.

This all makes for assume sales in the short run, who knows what it will do in the long run, but is it quaility work *shurgs*... Guess I care about quality sometimes. my bad
Like I said, you don't like Bendis work. That's fine. I don't like Azarello, that's me. It doesn't mean that the book is bad. Opinions aren't universal, please don't flame because some people disagree, and please read the post before the sales one, it adresses some of this anyway. :( Thanx. :)
How would you react if it WAS an MK Champions book, btw? :confused:

(PS, I agree that's why Wolvie's there, but Peter is an interesting addition. If Morrison or Busiek had written him, and only him, in without DA happening, what would you have said?)

[Gaz]

and before you start saying that I cause flame wars, perhaps you should look at the others responding to me, and have them accept some responsiblity to.. I love how people just want to blame the person with a different point of view for everything. :rolleyes:
Sorry, didn't mean for that to sound like being aimed just at you, I meant that the stock responses also add to it and cause things to escalate. Hence why I mentioned both parts, takes two to flame, doncha'know? :o

[BlackKnight]

Like I said, you don't like Bendis work. That's fine. I don't like Azarello, that's me. It doesn't mean that the book is bad. Opinions aren't universal, please don't flame because some people disagree, and please read the post before the sales one, it adresses some of this anyway. :( Thanx. :)
How would you react if it WAS an MK Champions book, btw? :confused:

(PS, I agree that's why Wolvie's there, but Peter is an interesting addition. If Morrison or Busiek had written him, and only him, in without DA happening, what would you have said?)

Again, stop telling me that I am starting flame wars, without telling others who are just as responsible. Thanks

As for how I would react if it was say an MK team book and the Avengers was still the classic team, hmm I think I would be more apt to give it a chance, since they did not destroy a team with 40 years of history just so they could have short term sales jump.

I to think peter is interesting, although I don't like how he is being written so far, but still he is in the book to boost sales.

[BlackKnight]

Sorry, didn't mean for that to sound like being aimed just at you, I meant that the stock responses also add to it and cause things to escalate. Hence why I mentioned both parts, takes two to flame, doncha'know? :o

Yes, expecially when one side can only say, I love it, you don't you should drop the book for five pages, that can get really annoying. :D
Not saying you have by the way.

[Gaz]

Yes, expecially when one side can only say, I love it, you don't you should drop the book for five pages, that can get really annoying. :D
Not saying you have by the way.
Thanx, didn't think you were :) , but I'm just curious as to your opinion of Bendis' other work, DD, USM, Powers, Alias/Pulse?

[Jake V]

And this time it wasnt poly bagged and no cards.. whatsup with that?
OK that was funny.

[pesmerga316]

Way I see it, average person doesn't give a damn about Antman, Wasp, Giant Man, and all the other B list superheros, only one I had slightly any interest in is Hawkeye. Bendis is able to write at a higher lvl using characters he is familiar with. All Spideys banter in #4 to me was hilarious, especially the dialogue between him and Jessica. Somehow I don't think Id care as much if it were banter between someone like IMO the worthless Wasp and Antman. Sorry to all you people who feel betrayed and thus have such blind loyalty to the old team that you refuse to see any good aspects of the new, but thats just how it is! We live in a capitalist society where the almighty $$ dictates everything and NA far out does the old in sales thus far and it brings in much more of the general public due to having more A list superheros not to mention an unorthodox bad ass like the Sentry (I'm all for murderers getting torn in half they SHOULD BE). Frankly I never want the old avengers back, I won't buy the book. Some of the old members could come back like Thor and other A lists, even Hawkeye when he comes back. But the rest can stay dead and gone for all I care, or get their own book in West Coast style.

[Neolucifer]

You got to admit, that if Bendis had wrote a series with his favorites, that was not avengers and that Marvel had put a big writer like PAD, or Casey on the AVengers and they had just not split the team that everone would have probably have been happy.

I'll nitpick a bit and say not everyone . I like the team as it is (ok wolvie can maybe go away) :D . I'd enjoy even more that same team under another writer but oh well , prob is none even tried adding spidey so far :D .

Now i say if Marvel was releasing something along the line of west coast avengers (ok maybe located elsewhere but you get the idea) with the old members (minus the current new avengers like cap and iron man) , then everyone would be happy . Except those of course that want the official name for their team :D

[Gaz]

I'll nitpick a bit and say not everyone . I like the team as it is (ok wolvie can maybe go away) :D . I'd enjoy even more that same team under another writer but oh well , prob is none even tried adding spidey so far :D .

Now i say if Marvel was releasing something along the line of west coast avengers (ok maybe located elsewhere but you get the idea) with the old members (minus the current new avengers like cap and iron man) , then everyone would be happy . Except those of course that want the official name for their team :D
How about using those characters in the Defenders?
West Coast is Runaways teritory (and Wonder Man,but he don't count. :p )

[Neolucifer]

Yeah give the old avengers the defenders title!! :D

[TheMuertoCorpse]

NA has a different artist for 7-9, now if it could get a different writer, and let bendis just do something like A MK Champions with his favorite charaters then everone would have been happy.


Maybe you should just pass on the book. methinks...
Everyone would be happy?
Don't you mean you would be happy about Bendis not touching your precious characters? :rolleyes:

[Gaz]

Yeah give the old avengers the defenders title!! :D
It makes sense, the NA are a little more Earthbound than the old team, and the Defenders handle cosmic threats...

[TheMuertoCorpse]

All Spideys banter in #4 to me was hilarious, especially the dialogue between him and Jessica. .


that was simply beautiful, especially the bit about the other Spider-Women.
Bendis has acquitted himself so well after the underwhelming Disassembled...I am loving this book!

[TheMuertoCorpse]

I would be more apt to give it a chance, since they did not destroy a team with 40 years of history just so they could have short term sales jump.

.
Jeesus Josph and mareeee...this is like a parodyof a fanboy rant.

"destroyed a team with forty years of history"???
Lord have mercy...it's a comic book...they are fictional characters...eventually someone will write them the way YOU like and you will be happy, and then you will be annoyed at someone else's constant ranting of "so and so destroyed my Avengers"!
Boo Hoo...
Don't like the book?
Cool... I have not the slightest problem with this...but do we have to be so melodramatic.."**"destroy**** :rolleyes:

[Gaz]

Jeesus Josph and mareeee...this is like a parodyof a fanboy rant.

"destroyed a team with forty years of history"???
Lord have mercy...it's a comic book...they are fictional characters...eventually someone will write them the way YOU like and you will be happy, and then you will be annoyed at someone else's constant ranting of "so and so destroyed my Avengers"!
Boo Hoo...
Don't like the book?
Cool... I have not the slightest problem with this...but do we have to be so melodramatic.."**"destroy**** :rolleyes:
Lookee, a hypocrite. :rolleyes:

Flaming someone because they disagree with you by saying they're doing it is liable to get you banned, FYI.

[pesmerga316]

I swear if you didn't laugh at all this book your just hopeless

classis lines from NA #4 SPOILERS

















IM "Well Agent Drew... In the most PC non threatening professional way, I'd like to say..."
Cage "DAMN girl!!
IM "Exactly"

(totally concur for a drawing she is friggin HAWT)


Cage "Spider Man, SPider Woman, you guys related?"
SPidey: "no:
Cage "You give her her powers or something?"
Spidey "No, she's totally unrelated to me in anyway"
Cage "So she ripped off your name?"
Spidey "EXACTLY!"
Jess "HEY!! You said it was okay."
Spidey "I didn't say you could lend it out! Theres like TEN of you now."
Jess "Theres THREE and they are ripping ME off"
Spidey "And Im not seeing a dime..."
Jess "Dime of what?
Spidey "Just sayin..."

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

having read the whole issue. I think that the way things are going to be done in NA are going to be different from what they used to be. The way they interogated Electro was sweet and funny though I think that Bendis needs to stop makingeverything coming out of Spiderman's mouth so jokey. He's starting to sound like a poor man's version of Blue Beetle/Booster Gold.

We also get to see how Wolverine becomes part of the New Avengers and how it ties into his own series.

Who thought Spiderwoman's bribing the re-captured villain with Etterman's donuts was perfect. Just a funny scene.

I also found it hilarious!

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

I swear if you didn't laugh at all this book your just hopeless

classis lines from NA #4 SPOILERS

















IM "Well Agent Drew... In the most PC non threatening professional way, I'd like to say..."
Cage "DAMN girl!!
IM "Exactly"

(totally concur for a drawing she is friggin HAWT)


Cage "Spider Man, SPider Woman, you guys related?"
SPidey: "no:
Cage "You give her her powers or something?"
Spidey "No, she's totally unrelated to me in anyway"
Cage "So she ripped off your name?"
Spidey "EXACTLY!"
Jess "HEY!! You said it was okay."
Spidey "I didn't say you could lend it out! Theres like TEN of you now."
Jess "Theres THREE and they are ripping ME off"
Spidey "And Im not seeing a dime..."
Jess "Dime of what?
Spidey "Just sayin..."

It was a funny issue exchange for sure!!!

[Evan Lanctot]

I am surprised I, as a looooong time Avengers fan, am actually enjoying this book. Some classic, funny dialogue this issue too!

[Stagier]

thought it was pretty funny, not your typical avengers vibe.
NOW logan is in, i hope this coincides with the current uncanny arc which would make some sense, and not just a random plot device.
"whoa logan what are you doing here?"
"well funny you ask, 'cause i was just here TWICE last week, once in teh snow and the other time being probed my talking mutant dinosaurs; which i enjoyed so much i thought i would come back and reminesce, naked and all."
"sweet deal, wanna find sauron? the original talking dinosaur?"
"holla' back Bub I ain't got anything else going on."

[Jared_Humpherys]

Good dialogue and some really funny moments, but with the delays and the fact that nothing really happened, I'm starting to lose interest. Here's hoping the next issue picks up a bit.

[Neolucifer]

great !!! And now i gotta await 3 days of shipping :(

[1HELLBOY]

I love this series, i loved this issue, i love the art, i love the writing,(add to the fact that my favorite marvel character has finally showed up :D ) i am definately staying on with this

there were definately very funny moments in this book, awesomely funny moments

and i don't have any problem with bendis, he's one of my favorite writers, all of the stuff i've read of his i've loved immensally(sp?)

and i absolutely love Finch's art, couldn't get more cooler than that

[moebius]

I thought it was a solid issue. Yes, Spider-Man was a little too jokey. There was some classic stuff in there ("What've we got to look forward to?" "All kinds of mutates and dinosaurs and big cheetahs and a surprising amount of acceptable nudity."). But when he's doing it every page or every half page it can get a little old. Reminds me of myself in Junior High, actually...

There was also real movment in the plot. It didn't resolve the whole thing, but who cares? It resolved one sub-plot, answered a question from issues 1-2, and introduced who we assume will be a future member of the team. Good stuff.

[jade_nova]

Can someone explain the comment Spider-Man made about his clones. I thought they were all did with Spider-Man's clones.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

Can someone explain the comment Spider-Man made about his clones. I thought they were all did with Spider-Man's clones.

What i understood was:
After Captain America explained his Champion License to Spidey with " IT means that I have the authorithy to ssemble any team I see fit to go o any mission I see fit" Spidey probably read it as a pretentious display of Cap's atributes so Spidey basically replied with "So? big deal, I have...er...um, clones...see? I also have privileges..."
Just sarcasm on Spidey's part, good-natures sarcasm, though...to deflate the tension...

[Phoney Bone]

Captain America : "It means my friend , that I have the authority to assemble any team I see fit to go on any mission I see fit."

Where do I remember this from? It's staring me right in the face. I know this! Think, David, think.....



EUREKA!!!!



http://www.fm3d.com/collectables/comics/secdef/001.jpg





Some jokes, you just never get tired of.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Captain America : "It means my friend , that I have the authority to assemble any team I see fit to go on any mission I see fit."

Where do I remember this from? It's staring me right in the face. I know this! Think, David, think.....



EUREKA!!!!



http://www.fm3d.com/collectables/comics/secdef/001.jpg





Some jokes, you just never get tired of.

ANd of course, Wolverine is mixed up in that one too. Coincidence???

[Phoney Bone]

ANd of course, Wolverine is mixed up in that one too. Coincidence???

And a Spider-Woman...and a whole lot of Doc Strange.

Do I smell a Secret Defenders mark writing for Marvel? :p

[Karl J. Barnes]

And a Spider-Woman...and a whole lot of Doc Strange.

Do I smell a Secret Defenders mark? :p

So..so what you are hinting at...is the NEW Avengers might be in reality the NEW Secret Defenders.....hm.

[StoneGold]

So..so what you are hinting at...is the NEW Avengers might be in reality the NEW Secret Defenders.....hm.
Well gee, it was funny till you got all explicit about it.

[Phoney Bone]

So..so what you are hinting at...is the NEW Avengers might be in reality the NEW Secret Defenders.....hm.

Who....me?

[Phoney Bone]

Well gee, it was funny till you got all explicit about it.

Yeah, you may have a point.


http://www.samruby.com/OtherTitles/Defenders/SecretDefenders7.gif


nah...still funny.

[Brian Cronin]

Feel free to continue discussing New Avengers #4 on the New Avengers #4 thread.

-Brian